December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-openpgp-formats-00.txt
by stewarts＠ix.netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded from IETF-Announce(a)ietf.org and ietf-open-pgp(a)imc.org --------------------------------------------------------------- A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the An Open Specification for Pretty Good Privacy Working Group of the IETF. Title : OP Formats - OpenPGP Message Format Author(s) : R. Thayer, J. Callas, L. Donnerhacke, H. Finney Filename : draft-ietf-openpgp-formats-00.txt Pages : 40 Date : 17-Nov-97 This document is maintained in order to publish all necessary information needed to develop interoperable applications based on the OP format. It is not a step-by-step cookbook for writing an application, it describes only the format and methods needed to read, check, generate and write conforming packets crossing any network. It does not deal with storing and implementation questions albeit it is necessary to avoid security flaws. OP (Open-PGP) software uses a combination of strong public-key and conventional cryptography to provide security services for electronic communications and data storage. These services include confidentiality, key management, authentication and digital signatures. This document specifies the message formats used in OP. Internet-Drafts are available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-openpgp-formats-00.txt". A URL for the Internet-Draft is: ftp://ds.internic.net/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-openpgp-formats-00.txt Internet-Drafts directories are located at: Africa: ftp.is.co.za Europe: ftp.nordu.net ftp.nis.garr.it Pacific Rim: munnari.oz.au US East Coast: ds.internic.net US West Coast: ftp.isi.edu Internet-Drafts are also available by mail. Send a message to: mailserv(a)ds.internic.net. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-openpgp-formats-00.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ds.internic.net can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <19971117171828.I-D(a)ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-openpgp-formats-00.txt <ftp://ds.internic.net/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-openpgp-formats-00.txt> Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com Regular Key PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639

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Re: RTFM-709
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Anonymous wrote: > (sweet fuck-all) Jason wrote: > Information Server wrote: > > For information on the interception of plaintext email, > > send a reply to this message, with an empty message body > > and with a subject line -- "RTFM-709". Jason, I have attached a file which includes some of the responses sent to "Information Server <toto(a)sk.sympatico.ca>", as well as a post to the list, apparently from David E. Smith, the remailer operator at Bureau42, giving the 'correct' address of the non-existent 'Information Server' supposedly at Sympatico...and, as a special bonus, a post to the list, purportedly from you, thanking 'Dave' for the information. You are a victim of your own misplaced faith in the great god known as WYSIWYG. (What you see, is what you get. -- NOT!) If I _am_ <toto(a)sk.sympatico.ca>, then you have the satisfaction of knowing that if I suffer a serious regression into my former violent, psychotic delusional state, that the proper authorities will likely be able to track me down and prosecute me for you bizarre, sadistic murder. If I am _not_ <toto(a)sk.sympatico.ca>, well... Regardless, whether you are seeking information on email interception or home-study on how to committ bizarre sex acts with farm animals, your interest in this information is known to both whomever you send your request to, as well as everyone who you reply to in regard to offered information, as well as everyone that the recipients share your email with _and_ anyone who manages to access the email accounts or systems of _all_ of the forementioned. Since both your real and forged corresponedence has already gone to private email accounts, public mailing lists, and perhaps to USENET and beyond, I think you can see the advisability of using encryption to limit access to the plaintext of your message to only those you specifically encrypt the message to. You may not care if the whole world knows that you want information on email interception, or even about your fondness for farm animals, but there are undoubtedly things which you would rather keep between yourself and the intended recipient. If a real 'Information Server' had a verifiable Public Key for you to encrypt your reply to, then it would not likely matter if you sent the message to a spoof address, as unknown recipients could not likely read it. The same applies to your friends, relatives and bussiness acquaintances. If you use encryption for those things which are important for you to keep private, then you do not have to worry as much if they share an email account, computer or system with friends, family, coworkers or strangers. The 'spoof' I did was neither technically complicated nor even particularly clever. On the other hand, there are a plethora of people in existence who are both clever _and_ skilled at poking their noses in wherever they want and doing whatever they like with the information. Sincerely, Louis J. Freeh (aka TruthMonger) Director (aka Lunatic) Federal Bureau of Investigation (aka Electronic Forgery Foundation) "The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre" http://bureau42.base.org/public/xenix "WebWorld & the Mythical Circle of Eunuchs" http://bureau42.base.org/public/webworld "InfoWar" http://bureau42.base.org/public/infowar3 "The Final Frontier" >From - Sat Nov 15 20:53:35 1997 Received: from borg.mindspring.com (borg.mindspring.com [207.69.200.122]) by orion.sk.sympatico.ca (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA11966 for <toto(a)sk.sympatico.ca>; Sat, 15 Nov 1997 19:34:39 -0600 (CST) Received: from ip164.hartford.ct.pub-ip.psi.net (ip164.hartford.ct.pub-ip.psi.net [38.10.219.164]) by borg.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA21805 for <toto(a)sk.sympatico.ca>; Sat, 15 Nov 1997 20:34:14 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199711160134.UAA21805(a)borg.mindspring.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is <mccaskill(a)[204.180.128.14]> From: "Tom McCaskill" <mccaskill(a)mindspring.com> To: toto(a)sk.sympatico.ca Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 21:32:32 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RTFM-709 Reply-to: mccaskill(a)mindspring.com Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) X-UIDL: c476fd8b1fe5744678d5d9e07eb2d8b4 X-Mozilla-Status: 0005 Content-Length: 0 >From - Sat Nov 15 20:53:30 1997 Received: from plato.stic.net (mail.stic.net [204.57.118.5]) by orion.sk.sympatico.ca (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA10112 for <toto(a)sk.sympatico.ca>; Sat, 15 Nov 1997 19:26:02 -0600 (CST) Received: from polo ([207.71.51.94]) by plato.stic.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-39400U7000L2500S0) with ESMTP id AAA200 for <toto(a)sk.sympatico.ca>; Sat, 15 Nov 1997 19:26:07 -0600 From: "joseph gonzales" <polo(a)stic.net> To: <toto(a)sk.sympatico.ca> Subject: RTFM-709 Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 19:23:42 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19971116012606195.AAA200@polo> X-UIDL: a13c8e2364693d62e597643d6c8ad2f3 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 Content-Length: 372 ---------- > From: Information Server <toto(a)sk.sympatico.ca> > To: Jason <rennie(a)one.net.au> > Cc: cypherpunks(a)toad.com > Subject: Re: Mail interception > Date: Saturday, November 15, 1997 6:46 PM > > For information on the interception of plaintext email, > send a reply to this message, with an empty message body > and with a subject line -- "RTFM-709". >From - Sat Nov 15 20:53:36 1997 Received: from amiga.amitar.com.au (root(a)amiga.amitar.com.au [203.57.242.1]) by orion.sk.sympatico.ca (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA17491 for <toto(a)sk.sympatico.ca>; Sat, 15 Nov 1997 19:58:07 -0600 (CST) Received: from Amitar.com.au (ppp54.amitar.com.au [203.57.242.54]) by amiga.amitar.com.au (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id JAA11177 for <toto(a)sk.sympatico.ca>; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 09:46:33 +0800 From: Shane Cracknell <shane(a)Amitar.com.au> Reply-To: shane(a)Amitar.com.au To: Information Server <toto(a)sk.sympatico.ca> Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 09:58:27 +0800 Message-ID: <yam7259.1396.270667912(a)Mail.amitar.com.au> In-Reply-To: <346E4255.702B(a)sk.sympatico.ca> X-Mailer: YAM 1.3.5 [020] - Amiga Mailer by Marcel Beck Organization: Arthur do nowt...{We sell Apathy and inefficiency} Subject: RTFM-79 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-UIDL: b2827ed9e3492e433439fad67b59537f X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 Content-Length: 4 >From - Sat Nov 15 21:19:53 1997 Received: from clockking.lse.fullfeed.com ([199.201.90.25] (may be forged)) by orion.sk.sympatico.ca (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id VAA03935 for <toto(a)sk.sympatico.ca>; Sat, 15 Nov 1997 21:06:16 -0600 (CST) Received: by clockking.lse.fullfeed.com id VAA11358; Sat, 15 Nov 1997 21:05:52 -0600 sender meb for toto(a)sk.sympatico.ca Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 21:05:52 -0600 From: mike belton <meb(a)clockking.lse.fullfeed.com> Message-Id: <199711160305.VAA11358(a)clockking.lse.fullfeed.com> To: toto(a)sk.sympatico.ca Subject: RTFM-709 X-UIDL: 4396d0a3c0e4a0852673e89633beb9e4 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 Content-Length: 0 >From - Sat Nov 15 22:24:16 1997 Received: from mail.theptn.com (mail.theptn.com [209.0.16.30]) by orion.sk.sympatico.ca (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id WAA21139 for <toto(a)sk.sympatico.ca>; Sat, 15 Nov 1997 22:17:23 -0600 (CST) Received: from smtp.monument.com (smtp.monument.com [209.0.16.25]) by mail.theptn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA02089 for <toto(a)sk.sympatico.ca>; Sat, 15 Nov 1997 20:18:29 -0800 Received: by smtp.monument.com with Novell_GroupWise; Sat, 15 Nov 1997 21:19:52 -0800 Message-Id: <4.0.32.19971115201303.00e102f0(a)postoffice.pacbell.net> X-Sender: ShellShocked (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro 4.0 Beta 6 (build 221) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 20:13:25 -0800 To: toto(a)sk.sympatico.ca From: Ann Oy <annoy(a)innocent.com> Subject: RTFM-709 In-Reply-To: <346E4255.702B(a)sk.sympatico.ca> References: <346E2E39.A29AFEE2(a)one.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-UIDL: e1233cae9478cc54a17e3153078fa699 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 Content-Length: 0 >From - Sat Nov 15 22:35:14 1997 Received: from nsm.htp.org ([210.141.239.33] (may be forged)) by orion.sk.sympatico.ca (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id WAA25016 for <toto(a)sk.sympatico.ca>; Sat, 15 Nov 1997 22:34:36 -0600 (CST) Received: (qmail 21309 invoked by uid 1002); 16 Nov 1997 04:33:53 -0000 Mailing-List: contact cypherpunks-e-help(a)htp.org; run by ezmlm Sender: cypherpunks-e-owner(a)htp.org Reply-To: cypherpunks(a)cyberpass.net X-ftpsite-URL: ftp://ftp.htp.org/pub/crypto/ X-unsubscribe-URL: mailto:cypherpunks-e-unsubscribe@htp.org X-subscribe-URL: mailto:cypherpunks-e-subscribe@htp.org X-Loop: htp.org Delivered-To: mailing list cypherpunks-e(a)htp.org Message-ID: <346E7541.5A13(a)one.net.au> Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 22:23:29 -0600 From: Jason <rennie(a)one.net.au> Reply-To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-SYMPA (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [cpe:4407] Re: Mail interception References: <346E2E39.A29AFEE2(a)one.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 62e1bb695fcc53b7875b438fa194910d X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 Content-Length: 651 David E. Smith wrote: > Jason wrote: > > So, does anybody know how to or where i can get information on > > intercepting email from ? > > > > Any help that can be provided would be greeatly appreciated. > Jason, > Some asshole spoofed the list with the wrong reply address for the > Information Server at Sympatico. > The correct address is: Information Server <ualdv8(a)sk.sympatico.ca> > Your subject header should be: "Help" > The body of the message should contain: "email security" > > I hope this helps. Dave, It worked, thanks. It is a shame that a few jerkoffs have to spoil the list for everyone else. regards jason >From - Sat Nov 15 22:39:32 1997 Received: from toad.com (toad.com [140.174.2.1]) by orion.sk.sympatico.ca (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id WAA25972 for <toto(a)sk.sympatico.ca>; Sat, 15 Nov 1997 22:38:22 -0600 (CST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA20075 for cypherpunks-unedited-outgoing; Sat, 15 Nov 1997 20:34:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from harrier.sasknet.sk.ca (harrier.sasknet.sk.ca [142.165.5.2]) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA20070 for <cypherpunks(a)toad.com>; Sat, 15 Nov 1997 20:34:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from default (lohner35.sk.sympatico.ca [142.165.98.35]) by harrier.sasknet.sk.ca (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id WAA25284; Sat, 15 Nov 1997 22:34:51 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <346E77AA.70F7(a)bureau42.ml.org> Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 22:33:46 -0600 From: "David E. Smith" <dave(a)bureau42.ml.org> Reply-To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Organization: Bureau42 Enterprises - An EFF Subsiduary X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-SYMPA (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ann Oy <annoy(a)innocent.com> CC: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Subject: Email Interception Information References: <346E2E39.A29AFEE2(a)one.net.au> <4.0.32.19971115201303.00e102f0(a)postoffice.pacbell.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 0e640c6327845b60f0495392c5b563e3 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 Content-Length: 227 Ann Oy wrote: > Ann, The correct address for the Information Server at Sympatico is: Information Server <ualdv8(a)sk.sympatico.ca> Use a subject header of "Help" and put "email security" in the message body. Dave

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Re: [cpe:4545] Mission:Critical and Informal Fallacies
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

TruthMonger wrote: >Robert Hettinga wrote: >> Notice >> that argumentum ad hominem is when you discount someone's opinion because >> of who they are or what they do. Vuperative insults, it seems, are another >> thing altogether. :-). > > Right... Like we're going to believe this when communist pedophile >Nazi cocksucker Robert Hettinga tells it to us. Careful, TM, you're starting to sound like a member of the Usenet Kook Cabal. > I bet that when I look up 'vuperative' in the dictionary, he'll be >wrong about that, too. I was stuck on 'vituperative.' Shows what I know. But 'attack the messenger, not the message' is old news here. >AdHomineMonger Kiss my ass. :-)

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Two views on encryption policy
by Dr. Alan Sherman 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I would like to air the following lectures on the Mbone, through videotaping and rebroadcast. Our AV Dept. will charge $50 for a basic videotaping. Would anyone like to donate $50 to UMBC to make this happen? (Please make out check to "UMBC".) Thanks. Dr. Alan T. Sherman Dept. of Computer Science and Electrical Engineering UMBC 1000 Hilltop Circle Baltimore, MD 21250 sherman(a)cs.umbc.edu (410) 455-2666 ------------------------------------------------- The UMBC Security Technology Research Group presents Two Views on Encryption Policy: I. Wisdom and Constitutionality in US Cryptography Policy John Gilmore, Co-Founder, Electronic Frontier Foundation II. A Law-Enforcement Perspective on Encryption Policy Barry Smith, Supervisory Special Agent, FBI Two divergent views on the topic of encryption policy by freedom activist John Gilmore and FBI spokesperson Barry Smith. Journalist Peter Wayner will moderate the event, which is free and open to the public. 8-10:30 pm Tuesday, December 16, 1997 Lecture Hall III University of Maryland Baltimore County http://www.cs.umbc.edu/events/fall97/crypto.shtml The fifth employee of Sun Microsystems and a strong believer in the U.S. Constitution, John Gilmore is currently involved in litigation against several government agencies over matters of freedom of information, freedom of expression, and encryption policies. He will discuss the constitutionality of controlling encryption. Barry Smith will articulate the needs of law enforcement to conduct lawful wiretaps; he will advocate the use of key-recovery techniques to achieve this end as a way that provides adequate privacy to law-abiding citizens. Directions: Take Exit #47B off interstate I-95 and follow signs to UMBC. LH III is on the ground floor of the (tall) administration building, adjacent the visitor's parking lot, near the I-95 entrance to UMBC. Host: Dr. Alan T. Sherman Associate Professor, Computer Science sherman(a)cs.umbc.edu http://www.umbc.edu (410) 455-2666 This event is held in cooperation with the UMBC Intellectual Sports Council

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Re: You're Dead
by TruthMonger 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

David E. Smith wrote: > > > In InfoWarriors-Alpha (Beyond the Valley of the Planet of the > > Return of the InfoWarriors) I put a link to bureau42 from the > > text: cyberassassination scheme. I was going to put a pointer > > to the file itself, but couldn't get the URL. Feel free to > > change it on your copy, if you like. > > Fixed. This latest incarnation of the saga will be at > http://bureau42.base.org/public/warriors/ . BTW, if you know of places where > I can get reliable, non-censored, decent-bandwidth, and cheap! web space let > me know. The account which is the home for bureau42 is dangerously close to > its quota, and I can't yet afford to have that T1 piped into my apartment. > (sigh) Dave, You must be a boonie-dweller, like myself. I live in an area where, if I lose my account, I have no options. It amazes me that I have been able, thus far, to send thinly veiled death threats to world leaders and The Richest Man in the US (TM) without being 'killed or caught.' > > p.s. - Do you have any good pointers to email interception > > information? My little 'spoof' has resulted in quite a few > > inquiries and I should probably send these poor people the > > best info I can, to keep from going to CypherHell. > > Heh. I'm sure, given all the research you and your people did for that > InfoWarriors document, you can come up with something on your own. Some > places to start: dig up information on the major NAPs, like MAE-East and the > two or so incarnations of MAE-West; since something like 80% of traffic on > the whole damn internet is routed through one of those, regardless of where > it's going, a tap there could prove interesting indeed. (And I recall seeing, > a few months ago, a cute article on MAE-East, which lives in the basement of > a parking garage in New Jersey. Talk about security through obscurity.) For all of the 'dire predictions' that we hear about terrorists, etc., I find it amazing that systems such as those you mention are not disabled at will by these alleged 'enemies of mankind', despite their obvious vulnerability. Could it possibly be that The Enemy (TM) is dancing with our Protectors (TM) in a reality-spoof that consists of behind-the-scenes Puppeteers pulling our strings? The (successful) attempts of grey-shrouded background entities to launch attacks on Tim May, the CypehrPunks list, etc., have given many of those I communicate with privately cause to believe that it may be time for The Movement (TM) to move underground, once again. What is interesting is that, for all of my paranoid, conspiratorial rantings, I am only a fool making light parody of the true dark forces which are operating in the background of our reality. Anyone who thinks I jest about this might want to get a second opinion from Jim Bell... After cleaning up my Sympatico web site, I will send you the information you need to access it. Feel free to use it as a temporary solution to your space constraints, but keep in mind that it may well be yanked at any moment. Perhaps someone with a direct InterNet connection will be able to provide you with the needed cyberspace. To me, *you* are one of the "Heroes of the Revolution," as are all of the remailer operators, Eternity Server developers, and slant-eyed schills such as Joichi Ito, who are trying to make the best of a bad situation (TM) in an attempt to move toward a goal which is very likely improbable, impossible, or just plain inexplicable. As the 'Youth in Asia Society' says: "Kill The President!" TruthMonger

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Re: [cpe:4537] Tim May's defensive racism (was: about RC9) (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 20:49:44 -0600 > From: TruthMonger <tm(a)dev.null> > Subject: Re: [cpe:4537] Tim May's defensive racism (was: about RC9) (fwd) > Austin redneck hippie, Jim Choate, wrote: OH, that is truly funny... Just 'cause I happened to be raised by hippies doesn't mean I am a hippie. Backfield in motion...Sugar Sugar... > > > From: TruthMonger <tm(a)dev.null> > > > Subject: Re: [cpe:4537] Tim May's defensive racism (was: about RC9) > > > Electronic communication is a bare-bones ASCII interpretation of > > > our intended communication. i.e. - stripped of intonation and other > > > physical gestures which convey a meaning beyond the mere words we > > > speak, in themselves. > > > Although there are some rudimentary ASCII images (:>) which can be > > > used to add elements of shared emotional or conceptual constructs to > > > the message we are attempting to convey. > > > > > > The Medium IS the Message. > > > > You clearly don't read real books...especialy those of the great authors of the > > world. > > Been there, done that, got the T-shirt, had no idea what it meant... Exactly. Thank you for being so obliging. > > People who believe the spin doctorism 'The medium is the message' usualy > > spend their time watching television or working for it. > > Those who *do*not* believe 'The medium is the message' usually think > that Socrates' world-veiw would have been exactly the same if he had > been using the InterNet as his means of viewing and communicating with > the world. Who's Socrates? A more interesting question is whether the technology would have impacted his base psychology... I know this, way down deep there is a fundamental dialog between people and all the technology in the world doesn't change that. Those base topics are what define human societies. If this weren't so then how can the human experience be so stable over recorded history & cultures? Why do we discuss the exact same sorts of questions all societies & individuals have asked? But, to counter your suggestion, please be so kind as to demonstrate your evidence where the method of expression might have changed the basic fundamentals of his dialogue? What are those fundamental issues that you claim have changed so radicaly? While your'e at it, how about extrapolating that nifty keen cliological analysis to say 500 years into the future and explain your own biases and bigottries? You can leave the whip and chains out of the dialog, those never change. I would propose that there are more fundamental issue than the level of technology. For example, consider the impact of experimentation on a basicaly experiential world-view as that commen in ancient Greece. As another example, consider the reaction when pi was shown to be irrational and this knowledge was banned upon pain of death. Clearly we have the technology yet we have not escaped the more base human experience. The reality would seem to indicate that no, the most base messages of Socrates, Sun Tzu, Christ, or the cypherpunks are still the same old ones... - People are people, people are strange - What makes one person happy is guaranteed to piss somebody else off - Most people will never figure the first two out even if you tell them the answers > > > Until the email/communications medium evolves to allow us the ability > > > to add not only smiles and winks, etc., but also chagrin, doubt, self- > > > doubt, etc., to our online communications, the medium will remain an > > > impediment to conveying the totality of our true message, as opposed to > > > being merely an electronic version of 'pidgin Englich'. > > > > This could happen provided we got rid of television and made graphics harder > > to print... > > Right, Jim. Give us your prediction of when this is going to happen... > (Yes, I *am* laughing at you...thanks for asking.) Uh...like cold day in hell... I'm beginning to think your attention span is tuned to those 30 second blip-verts...and who asked? Are the voices back already? > Reality is that even when the medium evolves to the point where we > can use it to convey the totality of what we are trying to convey, that "convey the totality"? What kind of double-speak bullshit is that? Look junior, the absolutely *ONLY* way to express the 'totality' of an experience is to be the one doing the experience. You can pop all the moddies and daddies you wanna but it's still a pale imitation; a rose it is not in any language. Now unless you have just instantly warped our happy assess into the far flung future we are a long walk from plugging brains together, nic's & protocols not withstanding. > after we have done so the 'powers that be' will flash a graphic of > us on the computer screen, making us look for all the world like a > drug-dealing, terrorist pedophile. > There will be few sheeple with the dicrimination to recognize that, > in your case, it is true, in 'my' case, it is not. > > Not that I'm a troublemaker... Well that's good, you shouldn't be as disappointed at your steady failures. My suggestion, don't quit your day job, assuming your old enough to have a job. They can't tell you're a dawg on the Internet. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there | | be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves. | | | | -Alan Greenspan- | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Re: KC is an Idiot
by Benjamin Chad Wienke 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 09:09 AM 11/17/97 -0800, Kent Crispin wrote: >You quite clearly don't know what you are talking about, little boy. >My Dad got me my first gun when I was around 8, 40 some years ago. By >the time I was your emotional age (12) I knew that guns weren't toys. Well, you got the edge on me there; I got my first when I was 12, but my dad let me shoot his .357 Magnum when I was 7. I recall a period of time when some punks were following me around because I had ratted on one of their friends. I got tired of it, got a B-27 silhouette target, and shot out the X-ring with my Para-Ordnance P10.45. I nailed the used target to my front door, and started wearing a fanny pack, and it was amazing how the punk sightings diminished dramatically. I never even had to draw my gun--all I had to do was convince them I carried one and was willing to use it effectively if necessary. Of course, if you would rather be shot than live with the consequences of shooting someone that is your choice. But saying that having a gun wouldn't make a difference is pretty ignorant--it can make a HUGE difference IF you are willing to use it--and pay attention to your surroundings such that you have the gun in hand before you are in the middle of a circle of assholes with drawn weapons. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Business Security 5.5 iQEVAwUBNHET0vVLt662DSXhAQE/CAf/Z7rhFGFLS6VFHuXP3/V+LATUh4Syf7Ge g+Fg1FFwf2iV3upBwae7sVTmkv1oQiCYOSo07+Sjl3ot+SsvztztCvFqnUjpFiMg AzQbyG8oKaeyv9qZyvMWTveJz2GkoqFX0MFnRz5ABpqmDS159hCxvs62dMzuo9+X 0mXZA4KLMoXsxiBBKGpwDJr8llcb6eQfaIw1FthZ+lzxrgVFDIl3O5/XyzfH+UPP 4CFf109B+knFIcpAIdQiS9ZQoNZcWTX247kqOm244fk76gluAGy0skT9l1FMCvbG 8LrlKvyO0ZWR39q6fDSPyoD+/os5/9B7oPY7vK71KkwRe3XtiNjneA== =sgBM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere! http://www.mailexcite.com

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Re: You're Dead
by Tim May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 8:46 PM -0700 11/17/97, TruthMonger wrote: > You must be a boonie-dweller, like myself. I live in an area where, >if I lose my account, I have no options. It amazes me that I have been >able, thus far, to send thinly veiled death threats to world leaders >and The Richest Man in the US (TM) without being 'killed or caught.' But I am nowhere near the Richest Man in the U.S., though I had lunch several times with the 4th or 5th richest man in the U.S. --TM > The (successful) attempts of grey-shrouded background entities to >launch attacks on Tim May, the CypehrPunks list, etc., have given many >of those I communicate with privately cause to believe that it may be >time for The Movement (TM) to move underground, once again. There's that TM again. I may be a shit to some, but I'm not _The_ Movement. Trademark, Truth Monger, Tim May, or The Movement. The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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No Subject
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Since Gary Burnore has been making posts in the alt.privacy.anon-server NG about how remailers are supposedly being "abused" in order to "forge" articles in his name, I figure it's time to repost a Usenet article from Jeff Burchell, operator of the Huge Cajones Remailer, about Gary Burnore's harassment which ultimately convinced him to shut down the remailer, in order to document Mr. Burnore's modus operandi, in case he attempts a similar attack against another remailer: --- BEGIN INCLUDED MESSAGE --- Subject: Jeff's Side of the Story. From: toxic(a)hotwired.com (Jeff Burchell) Date: 1997/07/01 Message-ID: <5pbnoe$f29$1(a)re.hotwired.com> Followup-To: alt.privacy.anon-server,alt.fan.steve-winter, alt.religion.scientology,alt.anonymous,misc.misc, alt.censorship,news.admin.censorship,comp.org.eff.talk, news.admin.net-abuse.misc Organization: Content, Inc Newsgroups: alt.privacy.anon-server,alt.fan.steve-winter, alt.religion.scientology,alt.anonymous,misc.misc, alt.censorship,news.admin.censorship,alt.cypherpunks, comp.org.eff.talk,news.admin.net-abuse.misc Anonymous (nobody(a)REPLAY.COM) wrote: : > Only Jeff knows the whole story. Actually, not even I know the whole story. If I truely knew who it was that was orchestrating this attack, it would have stopped, one way or another. The problem is, I don't know all the players (I have some suspicions, which I'll elaborate on further in a little bit) but I don't _really_ know who did it, and I really don't know why (other than a "I don't like remailers, I think I'll shut one down"). And I really don't know the background or what precipitated this. : > But I have to ask. Could this : > just be an" I'm sick of this shit, f**k it, I quit, who needs this : > aggravation, I'll just pull the plug and go have a beer" reaction : > to what really seems like a fairly small problem. It is not a small problem anymore when you're getting >200 complaint messages a day, plus 5-10 phone calls to your employer (and your employer's legal department). Fortunately, Wired is a very progressive company, and supported my efforts to provide anonymity, but our lawyers aren't paid to answer phone calls on my behalf. Running a remailer is one thing... getting harassed at work is an entirely different matter, and getting a THIRD PARTY harassed at work is yet another one. But yes, The ultimate "take this thing down" decision was one made because I was sick of this bullshit. But you know what? I volunteer my time, my computer equipment, and bandwidth that is given to me as part of my salary. I do (well did) all of this because I believe that anonymity is a right, and because I have the capabilities of helping to provide anonymity to the masses. When the remailer was self-sufficient (before the attacks started), it took maybe 10 minutes of my time a day, and minimal resources on my machine. Afterwards, even after I put in the auto-blocking feature (send a blank message to a particular address and get your address blocked) and the autoresponder on the remailer-admin account, I was still getting >100 messages a day reporting abuse... almost all of it spam-bait related. I receive no benefit from running the remailer (I don't even use it myself), and when it becomes a fairly major hassle without any rewards, the decision is not a hard one to make. And frankly, I already have enough to do, and get enough mail on a daily basis (at last check it was hovering around 600 messages/day). As soon as the remailer started taking up a lot of my time, it became time to rethink why I was running it. The moment that the spam-baiter started alerting people who had been baited, and telling them to contact me, it became personal. And I don't have time to get into personal pissing-contests. Yes, I took the easy way out, but that was my choice to make. Anyone who doesn't run a remailer has very little right questioning my choice, because you have no idea what precipitated it. Most people reading this group have the capabilities of running a remailer (it only takes a POP account and a Windows machine to run the Winsock remailer), but very few of us actually do. Why is that? I've been running huge. cajones for just under 2 years, and it averaged just over 3000 messages a day, so my remailer was responsible for about 2 million anonymous messages in its lifetime. I think I've done my part (at least for now), it's time for someone else to do theirs. If we had 15 disposable remailers that operated for 2-3 months each before moving/going away, we'd have paths for millions more anonymous messages. And isn't that what we're really trying to provide? : The first was doing questionable things, like installing content-based : filtering in an attempt to placate the attacker. Giving in to the demands When I first put the filters in, I was entirely unaware of exactly what the hell was going on. It seemed that someone had a bone to pick with databasix, and was using the remailer to get databasix harassed by third parties. So, Burnore's complaint seemed reasonable at the time, and I tried to come up with a way to block spam-bait abuse, without blocking anything else (like a reply to burnore in Usenet). See, if someone was doing to me what they appeared to be doing to Burnore, I would be pissed. I figured placating him would be the best thing to do. In hindsight, I was wrong, but at the time, it seemed like the correct decision. (Also at the same time, the SPA threatened Wired with a lawsuit because of The MailMasher, so things were a little tense between me and the legal department already, I didn't need to make them any worse.) The final content-based-filter (there was an interim one) looked for the following things: 1. Any address at databasix (Yes, at the request of Burnore) 2. Any address from my destination block list 3. More than 5 addresses in a row, one line each, without other content in-between. 4. Patterns of particular Usenet groups. 5. Particular subject lines. If any THREE of these items were spotted, the message got thrown into a reject bin. I periodically examined the reject bin, and can personally attest that it didn't block ANYTHING that it wasn't intended to. (The test posts reeked of spam-bait to me, and I believe were correctly blocked) FWIW, the filters were removed about a week ago. Because the filters were looking for a specific form of ABUSE, and not just doing basic pattern matches, I don't consider them to be "content filters". I would think that just about anyone would agree that posting lists of email addresses to mlm newsgroups would qualify as abuse, and _should_ be blocked. Blocking of this nature does NOT restrict free speech (or at least that is not the intentions of it), and it would keep the remailer out of lawsuit territory. See, the big problem with lawsuits is not the fact that _I_ don't want to be sued. The problem is that anyone with half a brain can determine that Wired is somehow related to any remailer that I am running on their bandwidth. Wired has deeper pockets than Mr. Burchell, so they are a much better group to sue... and they are a lot more willing to give in to a threat than I am. : What I *MIGHT* have done was to respond as follows: : : Your legal demands are unacceptable. I'd rather close the remailer than : compromise its integrity to suit your whims. But understand this -- unless : you withdraw your demands, I will not only close the remailer but also make : damn sure all of its users know exactly who forced me to take this action! I did respond in a fashion much like this, about a week before the attacks started coming. Mr. Burnore requested a copy of my (non-existant) logs. I told him to get me something in writing, signed by his lawyer that stipulated that the logs were confidential, and not to be revealed to anyone outside of the lawyer's office. I received a letter from Belinda Bryan. She is not registered with the State Bar of California, and is thus, not a California lawyer. I then ignored the request, and forwarded the correspondence to the State Attorney General's office (as impersonating a lawyer in CA is defined as fraud with extenuating circumstances). They have been working with me and the San Francisco DA's office. Look out DataBasix... I'm not done with you yet. : The second mistake I perceive is not fully disclosing the circumstances that : brought down Huge Cajones, and *NAMING NAMES*. That way, even if the remailer : shuts down, other remailer operators will learn about the tactics employed : against it, know *WHO* made the demands, etc. IOW, when you get an innocent : sounding, polite complaint from xxxx(a)yyy.com alleging "abuse", here's the : scenario that's likely to follow ... (It's not too late to make that : disclosure, Jeff.) In fact, now is the time to. Making a disclosure like this while I was still running the remailer would have probably been a bad move. Now that the remailer is closed, I'll name the names that I've got. Beware... all of this is speculation, because huge.cajones was an anonymous service, not even I can say with any authority that any of the people named below had anything to do with the shutdown of huge.cajones (or The MailMasher). However, there are a number of coincidences of timing. I still don't know what the hell is going on with DataBasix, Wells Fargo and Gary Burnore, but I suspect that someone used huge.cajones to say something extremely unflattering about Burnore (from what I can tell, he had it coming). Burnore then decided that he would make things difficult for me. First, he wanted the user who had posted something "inflammatory" about him revealed. When I told him that I couldn't do that, he carried on about mail logs and identifying the host that a message came from (the usual). I didn't explain to him that my machine keeps logs, but not anything involving a *(a)cajones.com address. He then requested the logs, which I denied (and told him to get his lawyer to send a request...) I'll admit, after my second or third contact with Mr. Burnore, I no longer was particularly civil with the guy. He's a kook, and really didn't deserve my courtesy. Between the time he first contacted me, and the time I received the letter from Belinda Bryan, is when the baiting of databasix addresses began (slowly, with just a few posts). After a while, I received requests from the other members of DataBasix (including William McLatchie (sp) (aka wotan) who actually seems to be a remailer supporter (?)). It was at this point that I realized something was completely amiss. I asked McLatchie to please tell me the story of DataBasix, and he said that he was going to, but never did. Anyone who can tell me the story is invited to do so. As a side note (and just because I am naming names). Peter Hartly (hartley(a)hartley.on.ca) yesterday spam-baited me. Fortunately, I've got good filters in place. As another side note, I've seen nothing to make me believe that Belinda Bryan is even a real person. Anyone? : > Given the importance of what Jeff was doing, I hope that he : > did all that he could, before declaring defeat. If that is the case, : > I commend him for a job well done. If not, why? I can't claim to have done _everything_ that I could have done, but I did certainly make an effort. I'm not willing to go to court to defend a practice like spam-baiting (and given the current public-opinion situation and impending anti-UCE legislation, this would be a terrible test-case). I am not new to threats of lawsuit, even ones that come from legitimate lawyers. About 8 months previous, I was threatened repeatedly by the legal wing of the "Church" of Scientology. I answered with a letter from my lawyer that explained the policies of the remailer, and threatened a harrassment lawsuit if the "Church" contacted me again asking for information (that they now knew I didn't have) about a remailer user. They complied, and went away (and haven't been too difficult with other remailer operators lately). : Agreed. Otherwise, these "asshole(s)" are simply going to do it all over : again against another remailer, eventually taking them all down one at a time. Except that right now, new remailers are springing up. If we could get three more online for every one shut down, it wouldn't much matter, would it? I may very well end up running a mailer again in the future, but if I do, it will probably be either a throwaway exit-man or a truely anonymous middleman (i.e. nobody will actually know who is running it). It also will probably be hosted outside of the United States (Floating in international waters with a sat feed would be nice). : It's time for them to stand up and say "Next time you come for one of us : he's : not going quietly as the others have. You'll have to face ALL of us at once, : instead." Aah, you imagine much more solidarity among remailer operators than actually exists. It doesn't work that way. It would be nice if it did, but many of us are running remailers on borrowed bandwidth (or have other "situations" to be concerned about). Being the squeaky wheel is not always a good idea for many of the operators (most of whom try to keep a low profile). The reality is, for all the good they do, remailers are tools that can very easily be abused. And, as the internet gets more and more commonplace, the average Joe and Joesphine, who don't have the strict Cyber-Libertarian viewpoints that are shared by most of us old-timers, will start to wonder just why anyone would want to run a service that allows anyone to speak their mind without fear of reprisal. When you get people with more extreme viewpoints (the ones who have a really legitimate need for anonymity) posting all kinds of stuff to all kinds of places, it will get the attention of Middle-America, which will then bring it to the attention of legislators. Any time a legislator can say "This is a blow to Child Pornographers and others who hide behind anonymity to commit crimes without fear of reprisal" you can guarantee that the bill will pass. When that happens, we're in trouble. America is scared of computers, and remailers are thought to be havens for the big 3 (Terrorists, Organized Crime and Child Pornographers). Now that the spammers are involved (spammers possibly being hated more than the big 3), most users are exposed to anonymous remailers in negative ways (Imagine what you would think if the first time you heard about the existance of remailers, it was because someone had spam-baited you, and then told you about it). The right to anonymity in the US will be legislated away within 18 months, partially because of spam. I do hope there's a _good_ test case waiting, and someone willing to fight it to the end, but I have my doubts. Ultimately the remailer network will be forced to move offshore, the way Crypto development currently has. Don't like the News? Go out and make some of your own. -Jeff |o| |o| |o| Jeff Burchell toxic(a)wired.com |o| |o|- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -|o| |o| I am not speaking for anyone but myself. |o| |o| |o| --- END INCLUDED MESSAGE --- This article is archived in DejaNews under their "old" database if you wish to verify its authenticity. --

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OECD on E-Commerce Tax
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

We offer an HTML version of OECD's paper: "Electronic Commerce: The Challenges to Tax Authorities and Taxpayers" An Informal Round Table Discussion between Business and Government To be held at the Marina Palace Hotel, in Turku, Finland on Tuesday 18th November 1997 http://jya.com/turku18.htm (122K) This is part of the documentation for a three-day conference on "Dismantling the Barriers to Global Electronic Commerce," November 19-21, Turku, Finland, sponsored by the Government of Finland and OECD, with help of the European Commission, Japan and BIAC, described at: http://www.oecd.org/dsti/iccp/e-comm/dismantl.htm

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College Wrestler Promotes Gay Art!
by Joe Lang 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi! As a college wrestler, I have spent much of time between matches creating awesome pencil art. I am pleased to invite you to visit my new website at: http://www.gay-art.com The site also includes some of my favorite toys and some great novelties. I hope you enjoy your visit to www.gay-art.com. click here! ----------------------------------------------------------------- Gay-art.com respects your online time and Internet privacy! This is a one time only invitation, your address will be deleted from our files. Thank you! -----------------------------------------------------------------

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See How They Lie (fwd)
by Brian B. Riley 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe/globehtml/317/See_how_they_lie.htm SEE HOW THEY LIE By Jeff Jacoby, Globe Columnist, 11/13/97 This column is about lying, so let me just confess, full-disclosurewise, that I have on occasion failed to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Like everyone else, I learned early on that honesty is sometimes the best policy - for getting in trouble. My father often warned my siblings and me that if we got caught doing something wrong, we would be punished, but if we got caught lying, the punishment would be doubled. Naturally, we lied, hoping not to get caught at all. Sometimes it even worked. So, yes, I've told my share of fibs and fabrications. But it is one thing to bend the truth in hopes of not being punished. It is something rather different to shamelessly falsify one's personal history in order to score cheap political points. Which brings us to James Ware, a federal judge nominated by President Clinton to the US Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit. For years, Judge Ware has been telling a heartbreaking story about his youth in Birmingham. It occurs during the racial turmoil of 1963, shortly after the deadly bombing of the Sixteenth Street Baptist Church. James is bicycling to a football game; his kid brother Virgil, a 13-year-old, is riding on the handlebars. Suddenly two white racists open fire. The gunshots knocked Virgil off the bike, Judge Ware recalled in a 1994 interview with the San Jose Mercury News, one of many occasions on which he has told the story. ''He died there by the side of the road.'' Understandably, the murder of his brother left a deep mark. ''What happened to me,'' Ware said, ''was a defining experience, a turning point in my life.'' As well it might have been - if it were true. A young man named Virgil Ware was murdered in Birmingham in 1963, but he was no relation to the judge. To further his own career, James Ware simply helped himself to another family's grief and martyrdom. Not until last week, when an Alabama paper tracked down Virgil Ware's true relatives and confronted Judge Ware with the facts, did he admit being a liar. Obviously his nomination to the Ninth Circuit is blown. But the president shouldn't give up on Ware quite yet. This faker would be perfect for the administration. After all, someone prepared to lie so brazenly about his own past ought to feel right at home with the Clinton-Gore crowd. Consider former Labor Secretary Robert Reich, who just published a memoir filled with stormy scenes that never happened. In one episode, he describes a 1995 appearance before the Joint Economic Committee. As Reich tells it, US Representative Jim Saxton, the Republican chairman, flayed him mercilessly. ''Where did you learn economics, Mr. Secretary?'' Saxton demands. Then, pointing to a chart, Saxton jumps up and down in his chair, crying ''Evidence! Evidence!'' Pure fiction, discovered Jonathan Rauch, a respected Washington editor, when he checked the transcript. ''I was flabbergasted,'' Rauch wrote in Slate, ''so I checked the C-SPAN tapes, and they leave no doubt. Reich appears to have fabricated much of this episode for dramatic effect. Saxton was, in fact, decorous and polite. He did not jump up and down ... he did not shout `Evidence! Evidence!''' Most of the quotations Reich attributes to Saxton ''appear never to have been said at all.'' Reich doesn't deny making up events and quotations. ''These are my perceptions,'' he shrugs. ''I might have goofed.'' Mmm-hmm. The same way Judge Ware ''goofed.'' At least Reich never exploited the death of a close relative. Vice President Al Gore, by contrast, mesmerized the 1996 Democratic convention with the story of his sister's death from lung cancer 12 years earlier. Gore detailed his ''final hours'' with Nancy and said the ''nearly unbearable pain'' of her death made him take a vow: ''Until I draw my last breath, I will pour my heart and soul into the cause of protecting our children from the dangers of smoking.'' Very moving. But Gore almost certainly made no such vow. For years following Nancy's death, he pocketed annual earnings from his family's tobacco crop. In 1988 he boasted to North Carolina voters, ''I raised tobacco. I want you to know that with my own hands, all of my life, I put it in the plant beds and transferred it. I've hoed it. I've chopped it. I've shredded it, spiked it, put it in the barn and stripped it and sold it.'' When challenged on the inconsistency, the VP explained that ''you never fully learn the lessons that life has to teach you.'' How profound. Sounds like just the guy James Ware would enjoy working for. Then there is Clinton himself, who is not above exploiting any tragedy if there is political benefit in it. During the rash of church burnings in 1996, Clinton solemnly told a national radio audience that he has ''vivid and painful memories of black churches being burned in my own state when I was a child.'' It must indeed have been a traumatic experience. Except - there weren't any black churches burned in Arkansas when Clinton was a child. The Arkansas Democrat-Gazette checked: Not one civil rights leader or historian could confirm Clinton's ''memories.'' Once again the president had ''told a lie designed to make him look good,'' the paper concluded. Spinning lies to look good seems to be a specialty of the administration. Tell me Ware wouldn't fit right in. Jeff Jacoby is a Globe columnist. This story ran on page A29 of the Boston Globe on 11/13/97. © Copyright 1997 Globe Newspaper Company. Brian B. Riley --> http://www.macconnect.com/~brianbr For PGP Keys <mailto:brianbr@together.net?subject=Get%20PGP%20Key> "The reason worry kills more people than work is that more people worry than work" -- Robert Frost (1874-1963)

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secret life of bill clinton
by Vladimir Z. Nuri 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

based on rumor this book is selling extremely well. why have you not seen it in the mainstream media? answer: because the mainstream media is secretly controlled. it is my opinion that we have the government we deserve based on our total apathy and irresponsibility when it comes to the political process, speaking as an american. as slimy and corrupt as Bill is, I think he is just the first layer of the rotteness and that there are many people in government who are far more sinister who use him as a pawn in even more diabolical schemes. I think we are witnessing a scale of corruption at such high levels and of such an extent as to have never before been seen in western civilization. the big question is whether the american public will wake up before the next election, or whether nothing will happen with "business as usual"... buy this book and help free yourself from the invisible prison we find ourselves in!! ------- Forwarded Message Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 14:05:21 -0600 From: jlbtexas <jlbtexas(a)swbell.net> To: Ignition Point <Ignition-Point(a)majordomo.pobox.com> Subject: IP: THE SECRET LIFE OF BILL CLINTON THE SECRET LIFE OF BILL CLINTON Book Review By Cathy Leahy Two hundred years ago Frenchman Alexis de Tocqueville came to America to analyze a fledgling democracy and he left celebrating her by writing "Democracy in America." Four years ago, Englishman Ambrose Evans-Pritchard came with that same hope and instead has written America's eulogy in "The Secret Life of Bill Clinton". After reading this well written and well documented book, one might wish to rename it, "The Death of American Democracy At The Hands of Bill Clinton." And if one didn't know the book is about an American president, one would think it describes Hitler, Stalin or better yet, the (now executed for their crimes) Ceaucescus of Romania. In fact, Evans-Pritchard warns that under the corruption of Bill Clinton, "you can sniff the pungent odors of decay in the American body politic" that was in evidence in continental Europe in the 1920s. This is a chilling account of an emerging Clinton pattern of lawlessness with the witting and unwitting complicity of a complacent establishment that should know better. And although Evans-Pritchard doesn't say it, he paints a startling parallel for anyone who has studied history and the rise of Adolf Hitler. Like Hitler, Clinton used established rules to legally establish himself and quickly went about subverting those same rules. Like Hitler, once in office Clinton set about politicizing every government agency under his control, replacing established law enforcement with his own loyalists that would silence his critics. Like Hitler, he then took control of the press to further silence dissent, although Clinton has done it with seduction and lies. Then, unencumbered by law, he went about exterminating his inconvenient associates, two of whom were Vince Foster and Jerry Parks. That done, he must now create a reason for people to give up their liberty in favor of safety with the Oklahoma City bombing. Hitler used his henchman to provoke and help an already irate dissident, Marinus van der Lubbe, to burn the German Reichstag in 1933. Clinton used Oklahoma City to expand his power. If not stopped - and soon, what will he do next? Evans-Pritchard tells us of the Dixie Mafia and about Clinton's rampant corruption in Arkansas. He tells us that the Dixie Mafia is far more dangerous than the Cosa Nostra. Thirty murders in a ten year period is nothing to Clinton's Dixie Mafia with its one hundred and fifty. This book is a portrait, with documentation, of American despotism that we never thought could happen. Left to his own devices, Clinton will put the final nail in the coffin of American democracy. The author does offer some hope, though, but it will have to come from ordinary citizens who still believe in the rule of law. But if Clinton is tried and convicted for his crimes, will he be punished properly? Will he be locked away along with his accomplices never to be heard from again or will he simply be set out to pasture, free to live out his goal of a "one world order" with himself at the helm? It's a frightening account but it is a "must read" by we, the "ordinary citizens." And although America's government controlled schools will never allow it, this book should be required reading in every classroom - to save the country. [The Secret Life of Bill Clinton. By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, Regnery Publishing, Inc., Nov. 1997. Available through the Washington Weekly web site.] Published in the Nov. 17, 1997 issue of The Washington Weekly Copyright 1997 The Washington Weekly (http://www.federal.com) Reposting permitted with this message intact ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo(a)majordomo.pobox.com with the message: subscribe ignition-point email@address or unsubscribe ignition-point email@address ********************************************** http://www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** ------- End of Forwarded Message

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Re: Tim May's offensive racism (was: about RC4)
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

William H. Geiger III, <whgiii(a)invweb.net>, writes: >Exactly how do you equate everything negative that is said against Japan >as to being racist? I guess if I had said it about Germany then it would >have been ok?? I bet you are one of those skirt wearing liberals that shed >tears over nuking Japan as being evil but have no problems with the >firebombing of Dresdin. So you are proud of your statement about Japan? You believe that President Truman should have dropped additional atomic bombs (if he had them) on Japan, even _after_ they surrendered? This would have been in contravention of every shred of decency and honor. Such a bloodthirsty act of revenge would have branded the U.S. as hopelessly barbaric, savage and inhuman. Your comments do fit in well with the current tenor of the cypherpunks list, though. Barbaric, savage, indecent, dishonorable. These are the new codewords of the cypherpunks movement. The uglier it gets, the more they like it here. You do indeed fit right in.

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No Subject
by bureau42 Anonymous Remailer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On or About 16 Nov 97 at 16:30, Tim May wrote Subject: Re: Exporting crypto from Japan: > Get the RSA chip released widely and quickly. The drug trade in Asia > could use it right now. Yes, yes, yes. This is the kind of talk I like. Much better than the talk of nukes, and guns. > (No, this is not a joke. I favor full availability of any and all > drugs to anyone who wants them. This makes the Triads and Yakuza > allies in defeating the New World Order. The ComSec 3DES phones are > a step in defeating the DEA, Interpol, and other police state > agencies, but the RSA chip would make a lot of such things much more > interesting.) Thank you, Tim. You have a very excellent point, here. All drugs should be legal. And I wish I had the balls to write this without using a remailer. But I'm a pot dealer, so I can't. Thanks for speaking for us. PotSeller

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http://www.cryptography.org - thanks to Bay Area Cypherpunks!
by Michael Paul Johnson 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

A while ago, the Bay Area Cypherpunks took up a collection to help secure the future of the North American Cryptography Archive. So far, I have used part of that money to register the cryptography.org domain name and part of it to partially cover some other expenses. Since the current main host site is being freely lent to us, that donation should stretch for several years. :-) I have just changed jobs, and am working very long hours, but I still manage to get a little time here and there to maintain the crypto site. If nothing else, it provides a place for people who are concerned about possible government persecution to publish their crypto software legally. (I know that some people may differ with my interpretation of the current rules, but what do you expect from FUD mud?) Anyway, THANK YOU for your help. I am honored by your very tangible expression of appreciation for keeping a crypto site open for years. The new site is functional, now, and has a new name (http://www.cryptography.org) I know that it could use some better indexing, etc., but some of that may come in my spare time. :-) To guard against various forms of disaster (natural or human), I am encouraging others to mirror the site. (I claim no "compilation copyright" - I just want this information to be freely available.) As the regulatory climate changes, I will be watching for windows of legal opportunity (as we almost had with the Bernstein case) to tear down the "front door" to the archive and invite mirroring outside of North America. Until then, of course, most (if not all) of the data in the archive is available outside of North America. U. S. and Canadian citizens are clearly not the only ones who understand and enjoy cryptography! Note: nothing in this message should be construed as an invitation to anyone to violate any valid applicable law. ;-) Thanks again, my friends. Michael Paul Johnson mailto:mpj@ebible.org (aka mpj(a)csn.net) PO Box 1151 http://www.ebible.org/bible <- Holy Bible Longmont CO 80502-1151 http://www.cryptography.org <- Crypto archive USA PGP RSA key fingerprint (mpjA): 3E67 A580 0DFB D16A 6D52 D3A9 1C07 4E41 PGP DSS/DH fingerprint: 28AE B775 DD65 62C7 0717 ECDA 448F E0C7 17D7 47BB

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-FREE Vitamins & Business-
by Biz-Man＠Inteligence-9.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Overcoming War with Information
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Monty Cantsin writes: >One of the things that appeals to me about the tools the cypherpunks >are developing is the likelihood that they will end war. What >percentage of wars are instigated and organized by governments? That >is, how many wars can we think of in which a war originated in the >population of country and dragged its unwilling government into the >fray? I cannot think of any. That's a good point. Cypherpunk technologies should actually _reduce_ the scope of violence, killing, death. These technologies will make it easier to bypass regulations and reduce government control. Free access to communications will make it harder for governments to use propaganda to direct popular opinion as they have in the past. People communicating anonymously will be able to express unpopular views without fear of retribution. It's ironic that some of the greatest supporters of crypto privacy are also the ones who call for more killing, who support terrorist actions like the Oklahoma bombing or a nuclear massacre. They don't seem to understand what this technology is all about.

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Tentsicles
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

IS FOSTER KEY TO "THE OCTOPUS?" Editorial When you start digging into the circumstances surrounding the death of White House aide Vince Foster, a number of names keep popping up that have popped up in relation to a number of large scandals of the last two decades. Starting with the "October Surprise," the alleged plot to delay the release of hostages from Iran to after the presidential election in 1980 in an attempt to embarrass President Carter, it is indeed striking that the hostages were released just a few hours after President Reagan was sworn in. A number of witnesses have testified to the involvement of Vice President Bush and Earl Brian in this secret plot. These witnesses, all CIA or Mossad assets, have received the "Terry Reed treatment": indictment on false charges and thorough discrediting. But it was another source, White House staffer Barbara Honegger, who wrote the first "October Surprise" book in 1989. It was early in the Reagan administration that Earl Brian, Richard Secord and others used their influence and connections to make money on selling the pirated PROMIS software from Inslaw Inc. Former OSS agent Jackson Stephens is alleged to have made money on PROMIS as well through his Arkansas Systematics Inc. It was there that Vince Foster, as a partner of Hillary Clinton in the Rose Law Firm and representing Systematics, became involved with the Inslaw affair. A much bigger scandal of government corruption was the Savings and Loan scandal of the 1980. The federally backed savings-and-loans were not only looted by crooks and criminals but also by well-connected politicians who needed an easy buck. Neil Bush and Bill and Hillary Clinton are just a few examples. Apparently not content with the hundreds of billions in S & L loot from the taxpayer, corrupt government officials turned to drugs. The CIA-sponsored Contra re-supply network was used to ship illegal drugs of incredible volume into the United States. CIA assets Terry Reed and L.D. Brown implicate Bill Clinton, George Bush and Oliver North with this operation. A confidential CIA document obtained by the Washington Weekly supports the involvement of George Bush by linking him to arms-dealer Adnan Khashoggi, Richard Secord, and CIA asset John Hull, whose ranch in Costa Rica was used for transshipment of drugs and arms through Mena, Arkansas and other U.S. destinations. Another of these scandals during the 1980s was the illegal penetration of the bank that the CIA preferred - the BCCI Bank of Crooks and Criminals. Politicians across the spectrum are implicated in taking bribes to allow this bank to take over American banks with the help of Jackson Stephens and Vince Foster. No serious investigations have been launched by the Bush and Clinton Justice Departments. Leaving aside for a moment the dispute over whether any of these scandals have been proven, there is one remarkable facet about the facts as they have been presented: some names appear in several of these alleged scandals. Topping the list is George Bush, the only CIA director to become President of the United States. It is difficult to reconcile these serious allegations with the rather decent public image of George and Barbara Bush. But to dismiss these allegations out of hand is to accept a conspiracy that includes a large number of unrelated witnesses naming the same culprits in different scandals. But it should also be said that participants in these scandals may have thought they acted to defeat Communism, where the end would justify every means. After all, that was the prime objective of the CIA during the Cold War. Are these the arms of the octopus that reporter Danny Casolaro referred to just before he was found dead in his hotel room in 1991? He told friends he was tracing a network of government corruption involving Inslaw, BCCI, and the October Surprise. Washington D.C. attorney Paul Wilcher was tracing the same Octopus when he was found dead three days after Vince Foster died. Think back to the 1992 elections for a moment. Did George Bush bring up any of the scandals that could have defeated Clinton? Did he mention Whitewater, Cattlegate, Paula Jones, Gennifer Flowers, Mena? Why not? Did he know that it could backfire seriously because of what Bill Clinton knew about him? Did Bill Clinton take advantage of that in his unlikely bid for the presidency? What, then, is this Octopus? It appears to be an association between rogue elements of the CIA and certain elected officials. An analysis of these structures will show that corruption is inevitable. The CIA has a budget of $28 billion, it assassinates people without being held accountable in a court of law, it operates in secret, it has almost unlimited power and is not subject to any meaningful oversight. Only saints could avoid corruption and abuse of power in such an environment. Then what can we do about it? Limit the budget of the CIA, limit its role, subject it to greater outside scrutiny, expose past scandals and hold individuals responsible for their crimes. Three presidents tried to do just that: John F. Kennedy, Richard Nixon, and Jimmy Carter. None of them stayed in office for long, and none of them achieved their goal. Copyright (c) 1995 The Washington Weekly (http://www.federal.com)

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I'm from the government, and I'm here to fuck you silly...
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

INSLAW SUMMARY By Bill Hamilton The following information has been given to each member of the House Judicary Committee and was placed on the Internet in electronic form by Bill Hamilton of Inslaw Corporation. The complete document with supporting details may be obtained from: Inslaw 1125 15th Street, NW Washington, DC 20005-2707 Telephone (202) 828-8638 ... One of the organizational units that reports to Mark Richard is the Office of Special Investigations (OSI). OSI's publicly-declared mission is to locate and deport Nazi war criminals. The Nazi war criminal program is, however, a front for the Justice Department's own covert intelligence service, according to disclosures recently made to INSLAW by several senior Justice Department career officials. One undeclared mission of this covert intelligence service has been the illegal dissemination of the proprietary version of PROMIS, according to information from reliable sources with ties to the U.S. intelligence community. INSLAW has, moreover, obtained a copy of a 27-page Justice Department computer printout, labelled "Criminal Division Vendor List." That list is actually a list of the commercial organizations and individuals who serve as "cutouts" for this secret Justice Department intelligence agency, according to intelligence community informants and a preliminary analysis of the computerized list. A significant proportion of the 100-plus companies on the list appear to be in the computer industry. The Justice Department's secret intelligence agency also has its own "proprietary" company that employs scores of agents of diverse nationalities, as well as individuals who appear to be regular employees of various departments and agencies of the U.S. Government or members of the U.S. Armed Forces, according to several sources.

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Re: Exporting crypto from Japan
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Adam Back writes: > I am pleased that you are discussing with us crypto politics in > Japan... we have few contributors from Japan in the past. Yeah, surprising, isn't it, considering how open and welcoming the cypherpunks have been to foreigners and minority races... Actually Adam Back should be nominated for cypherpunk of the year. Unlike a blowhard do-nothing like Timothy "Chop-chop" May (and now we know what the C stands for, don't we?), Adam actually accomplishes things. His 3-line RSA has dramatized the absurdity of the export controls like nothing else. He built a working prototype of an eternity server while everybody else just talked about it. He's been a leader in the fight to oppose PGP GAKware. He has strong political views but is not motivated by hatred and fear. Adam doesn't get nearly the respect he deserves, probably because he's not much of a wordsmith. Tim May's sophistry is good enough to pull the wool over most people's eyes. But look deeper and you'll see that Adam's heart is pure. That's worth far more than May's skill at artfully wrapping his garbage.

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Re: [cpe:4577] Re: List Robustness
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Bill Stewart wrote: > > Then there's the mirror at Ft. Meade :-) Now that you've told us, are you going to have to kill us?

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Get Started Right Away And Have A Great Christmas
by SBJ Enterprises 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dear friend, The following income opportunity is one you may be interested in taking a look at. It can be started with VERY MINIMAL outlay and the income return is TREMENDOUS! When you order you will be given instructions of a conference call that will give you technical support, step by step how to e-mail your own email. This really works! <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> You are about to make at least $50,000 - In less than 90 days Read the enclosed program...THEN READ IT AGAIN!... <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> The enclosed information is something I almost let slip through my fingers. Fortunately, sometime later I re-read everything and gave some thought and study to it. My name is Christopher Erickson. Two years ago, the corporation I worked at for the past twelve years down-sized and my position was eliminated. After unproductive job interviews, I decided to open my own business. Over the past year, I incurred many unforeseen financial problems. I owed my family, friends, and creditors over $35,000. The economy was taking a toll on my business and I just couldn't seem to make ends meet. I had to refinance and borrow against my home to support my family and struggling business. I truly believe it was wrong for me to be in debt like this. AT THAT MOMENT something significant happened in my life and I am writing to share my experience in hopes that this will change your life FOREVER....FINANCIALLY!!! In mid-December, I received this program via email. Six months prior to receiving this program I had been sending away for information on various business opportunities. All of the programs I received, in my opinion, were not cost effective. They were either too difficult for me to comprehend or the initial investment was too much for me to risk to see if they worked or not. One claimed I'd make a million dollars in one year...it didn't tell me I'd have to write a book to make it. But like I was saying, in December of '95 I received this program. I didn't send for it, or ask for it, they just got my name off a mailing list. THANK GOODNESS FOR THAT!!! After reading it several times, to make sure I was reading it correctly, I couldn't believe my eyes. Here was a MONEY-MAKING PHENOMENON. I could invest as much as I wanted to start, without putting me further in debt. After I got a pencil and paper and figured it out, I would at least get my money back. After determining that the program is LEGAL and NOT A CHAIN LETTER, I decided "WHY NOT". Initially I sent out 10,000 emails. It only cost me about $15.00 for my time on-line. The great thing about email is that I didn't need any money for printing to send out the program, only the cost to fulfill my orders. I am telling you like it is, I hope it doesn't turn you off, but I promised myself that I would not "rip-off" anyone, no matter how much money it cost me! A good program to help do this is Ready Aim Fire, an email extracting and mass mail program: http://microsyssolutions.com/raf/ Another more advanced one can be found at: http://www.extractor.com/ads.htm In less than one week, I was starting to receive orders for REPORT #1. By January 13th, I had received 26 orders for REPORT #1. When you read the GUARANTEE in the program, you will see that "YOU MUST RECEIVE 15 TO 20 ORDERS FOR REPORT #1 WITHIN TWO WEEKS. IF YOU DON'T, SEND OUT MORE PROGRAMS UNTIL YOU DO!" My first step in making $50,000 in 20 to 90 days was done. By January 30th, I had received 196 orders for REPORT #2. If you go back to the GUARANTEE, "YOU MUST RECEIVE 100 OR MORE ORDERS FOR REPORT #2 WITHIN TWO WEEKS. IF NOT, SEND OUT MORE PROGRAMS UNTIL YOU DO. ONCE YOU HAVE 100 ORDERS, THE REST IS EASY, RELAX, YOU WILL MAKE YOUR $50,000 GOAL." Well, I had 196 orders for REPORT #2, 96 more than I needed. So I sat back and relaxed. By March 19th, of my emailing of 10,000, I received $58,000 with more coming in every day. I paid off ALL my debts and bought a much needed new car. Please take time to read the attached program, IT WILL CHANGE YOUR LIFE FOREVER! Remember, it wont work if you don't try it. This program does work, but you must follow it EXACTLY! Especially the rules of not trying to place your name in a different place. It doesn't work, you'll lose out on a lot of money! REPORT #2 explains this. Always follow the guarantee, 15 to 20 orders for REPORT #1, and 100 or more orders for REPORT #2 and you will make $50,000 or more in 20 to 90 days. I AM LIVING PROOF THAT IT WORKS !!! If you are a fellow business owner and you are in financial trouble like I was, or you want to start your own business, consider this a sign. I DID! Sincerely, Christopher Erickson PS Do you have any idea what 11,700 $5 bills ($58,000) look like piled up on a kitchen table? IT'S AWESOME! "THREW IT AWAY" "I had received this program before. I threw it away, but later wondered if I shouldn't have given it a try. Of course, I had no idea who to contact to get a copy, so I had to wait until I was emailed another copy of the program. Eleven months passed, then it came. I DIDN'T throw this one away. I made $41,000 on the first try." Dawn W., Evansville, IN "NO FREE LUNCH" "My late father always told me, 'remember, Alan, there is no free lunch in life. You get out of life what you put into it.' Through trial and error and a somewhat slow frustrating start, I finally figured it out. The program works very well, I just had to find the right target group of people to email it to. So far this year, I have made over $63,000 using this program. I know my dad would have been very proud of me." Alan B., Philadelphia, PA A PERSONAL NOTE FROM THE ORIGINATOR OF THIS PROGRAM By the time you have read the enclosed information and looked over the enclosed program and reports, you should have concluded that such a program, and one that is legal, could not have been created by an amateur. Let me tell you a little about myself. I had a profitable business for ten years. Then in 1979 my business began falling off. I was doing the same things that were previously successful for me, but it wasn't working. Finally, I figured it out. It wasn't me, it was the economy. Inflation and recession had replaced the stable economy that had been with us since 1945. I don't have to tell you what happened to the unemployment rate...because many of you know from first hand experience. There were more failures and bankruptcies than ever before. The middle class was vanishing. Those who knew what they were doing invested wisely and moved up. Those who did not, including those who never had anything to save or invest, were moving down into the ranks of the poor. As the saying goes, "THE RICH GET RICHER AND THE POOR GET POORER." The traditional methods of making money will never allow you to "move up" or "get rich", inflation will see to that. You have just received information that can give you financial freedom for the rest of your life, with "NO RISK" and "JUST A LITTLE BIT OF EFFORT." You can make more money in the next few months than you have ever imagined. Follow the program EXACTLY AS INSTRUCTED. Do not change it in any way. It works exceedingly well as it is now. Remember to email a copy of this exciting program to everyone that you can think of. One of the people you send this to may send out 50,000...and your name will be on every one of them!. Remember though, the more you send out, the more potential customers you will reach. So my friend, I have given you the ideas, information, materials and opportunity to become financially independent, IT IS UP TO YOU NOW! HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PROGRAM WILL MAKE YOU $$$$$$ Let's say that you decide to start small, just to see how it goes, and we'll assume you and all those involved send out 2,000 programs each. Let's also assume that the mailing receives a .5% response. Using a good list the response could be much better. Also many people will send out hundreds of thousands of programs instead of 2,000. But continuing with this example, you send out only 2,000 programs. With a 5% response, that is only 10 orders for REPORT #1. Those 10 people respond by sending out 2,000 programs each for a total of 20,000. Out of those .5%, 100 people respond and order REPORT #2. Those 100 mail out 2,000 programs each for a total of 200,000. The .5% response to that is 1,000 orders for REPORT #3. Those 1,000 send out 2,000 programs each for a 2,000,000 total. The .5% response to that is 10,000 orders for REPORT #4. That's 10,000 five dollar bills for you. CASH!!!! Your total income in this example is $50 + $500 + $5000 + $50,000 for a total of $55,550!!!! REMEMBER FRIEND, THIS IS ASSUMING 1,990 OUT OF 2,000 PEOPLE YOU MAIL TO WILL DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING... AND TRASH THIS PROGRAM! DARE TO THINK FOR A MOMENT WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF EVERYONE OR HALF SENT OUT 100,000 PROGRAMS INSTEAD OF ONLY 2,000. Believe me, many people will do that and more! By the way, your cost to participate in this is practically nothing. You obviously already have an internet connection and email is FREE!!! REPORT#3 will show you the best methods for bulk emailing and purchasing email lists. THIS IS A LEGITIMATE, LEGAL, MONEY MAKING OPPORTUNITY. It does not require you to come in contact with people, do any hard work, and best of all, you never have to leave the house except to get the mail. If you believe that someday you'll get that big break that you've been waiting for, THIS IS IT! Simply follow the instructions, and your dream will come true. This multi-level email order marketing program works perfectly...100% EVERY TIME. Email is the sales tool of the future. Take advantage of this non-commercialized method of advertising NOW!! The longer you wait, the more people will be doing business using email. Get your piece of this action!! MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING (MLM) has finally gained respectability. It is being taught in the Harvard Business School, and both Stanford Research and The Wall Street Journal have stated that between 50% and 65% of all goods and services will be sold throughout Multi-level Methods by the mid to late 1990's. This is a Multi-Billion Dollar industry and of the 500,000 millionaires in the US, 20% (100,000) made their fortune in the last several years in MLM. Moreover, statistics show 45 people become millionaires everyday through Multi-Level Marketing. INSTRUCTIONS: We at Erris Mail Order Marketing Business, have a method of raising capital that REALLY WORKS 100% EVERY TIME. I am sure that you could use $50,000 to $125,000 in the next 20 to 90 days. Before you say "Bull", please read the program carefully. This is the GREATEST Multi-level Mail Order Marketing anywhere: Step (1) Order all four 4 REPORTS listed by NAME AND NUMBER. Do this by ordering the REPORT from each of the four 4 names listed on the next page. For each REPORT, send $5 CASH and a SELF- ADDRESSED, STAMPED envelope (BUSINESS SIZE #10) to the person listed for the SPECIFIC REPORT. International orders should also include $1 extra for postage. It is essential that you specify the NAME and NUMBER of the report requested to the person you are ordering from. You will need ALL FOUR 4 REPORTS because you will be REPRINTING and RESELLING them. DO NOT alter the names or sequence other than what the instructions say. IMPORTANT: Always provide same-day service on all orders. Step (2) Replace the name and address under REPORT #1 with yours, moving the one that was there down to REPORT #2. Drop the name and address under REPORT #2 to REPORT #3, moving the one that was there to REPORT #4. The name and address that was under REPORT #4 is dropped from the list and this party is no doubt on the way to the bank. When doing this, make certain you type the names and addresses ACCURATELY! DO NOT MIX UP MOVING PRODUCT/REPORT POSITIONS!!! Step (3) Having made the required changes in the NAME list, save it as a text (.txt) file in it's own directory to be used with whatever email program you like. Again, REPORT #3 will tell you the best methods of bulk emailing and acquiring email lists. Step (4) Email a copy of the entire program (all of this is very important) to everyone whose address you can get your hands on. Start with friends and relatives since you can encourage them to take advantage of this fabulous money-making opportunity. That's what I did. And they love me now, more than ever. Then, email to anyone and everyone! Use your imagination! You can get email addresses from companies on the internet who specialize in email mailing lists. These are very cheap, 100,000 addresses for around $35.00. IMPORTANT: You won't get a good response if you use an old list, so always request a FRESH, NEW list. You will find out where to purchase these lists when you order the four 4 REPORTS. REQUIRED REPORTS ***Order each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME*** ALWAYS SEND A SELF-ADDRESSED, STAMPED ENVELOPE AND $5 CASH FOR EACH ORDER REQUESTING THE SPECIFIC REPORT BY NAME AND NUMBER Please, no checks, cash only ! ________________________________________________________ REPORT #1 "HOW TO MAKE $250,000 THROUGH MULTI-LEVEL SALES" ORDER REPORT #1 FROM: SJB Enterprises 640-A Valley View Loop Honolulu, HI 96818 ________________________________________________________ REPORT #2 "MAJOR CORPORATIONS AND MULTI-LEVEL SALES" ORDER REPORT #2 FROM: Freedom Investments PO Box 199 Wadesville, IN. 47638-0199 ________________________________________________________ REPORT#3 "SOURCES FOR THE BEST MAILING LISTS" ORDER REPORT #3 FROM: Katz Investments 6545 Quiet Hours Columbia, Md 21045 ________________________________________________________ REPORT #4 "EVALUATING MULTI-LEVEL SALES PLANS" ORDER REPORT #4 FROM: Aquarian Enterprises 3965 Phelan #105-304 Beaumont,TX 77707 _______________________________________________________ CONCLUSION .I am enjoying my fortune that I made by sending out this program. You too, will be making money in 20 to 90 days, if you follow the SIMPLE STEPS outlined in this mailing. Very few people reach financial independence, because when opportunity knocks, they choose to ignore it. It is much easier to say "NO" than "YES", and this is the question that you must answer. Will YOU ignore this amazing opportunity or will you take advantage of it? If you do nothing, you have indeed missed something and nothing will change. Please re-read this material, this is a special opportunity. If you have any questions, please feel free to write to the sender of this information. You will get a prompt and informative reply. My method is simple. I sell thousands of people a product for $5 that costs me pennies to produce and email. I should also point out that this program is legal and everyone who participates WILL make money. This is not a chain letter or pyramid scam. At times you have probably received chain letters, asking you to send money, on faith, but getting NOTHING in return, NO product what-so-ever! Not only are chain letters illegal, but the risk of someone breaking the chain makes them quite unattractive. You are offering a legitimate product to your people. After they purchase the product from you, they reproduce more and resell them. It's simple free enterprise. As you learned from the enclosed material, the PRODUCT is a series of four 4 FINANCIAL AND BUSINESS REPORTS. The information contained in these REPORTS will not only help you in making your participation in this program more rewarding, but will be useful to you in any other business decisions you make in the years ahead. You are also buying the rights to reprint all of the REPORTS, which will be ordered from you by those to whom you mail this program. The concise one and two page REPORTS you will be buying can easily be reproduced at a local copy center for a cost off about 3 cents a copy. Best wishes with the program and Good Luck! TIPS FOR SUCCESS Send for your four 4 REPORTS immediately so you will have them when the orders start coming in. When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the product/service to comply with US Postal and Lottery laws. Title 18 Sections 1302 and 1341 specifically state that: "A PRODUCT OR SERVICE MUST BE EXCHANGED FOR MONEY RECEIVED." WHILE YOU WAIT FOR THE REPORTS TO ARRIVE: 1. Name your new company. You can use your own name if you desire. 2. Get a post office box (preferred). 3. Edit the names and addresses on the program. You must remember, your name and address go next to REPORT #1 and the others all move down one, with the fourth one being bumped OFF the list. 4. Obtain as many email addresses as possible to send until you receive the information on mailing list companies in REPORT #3. 5. Decide on the number of programs you intend to send out. The more you send, and the quicker you send them, the more money you will make. 6. After mailing the programs, get ready to fill the orders. 7. Copy the four 4 REPORTS so you are able to send them out as soon as you receive an order. IMPORTANT: ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ORDERS YOU RECEIVE! YOUR GUARANTEE The check point which GUARANTEES your success is simply this: you must receive 15 to 20 orders for REPORT #1. This is a must!!! If you don't within two weeks, email out more programs until you do. Then a couple of weeks later you should receive at least 100 orders for REPORT #2, if you don't, send out more programs until you do. Once you have received 100 or more orders for REPORT #2, (take a deep breath) you can sit back and relax, because YOU ARE GOING TO MAKE AT LEAST $50,000. Mathematically it is a proven guarantee. Of those who have participated in the program and reached the above GUARANTEES-ALL have reached their $50,000 goal. Also, remember, every time your name is moved down the list you are in front of a different REPORT, so you can keep track of your program by knowing what people are ordering from you. IT'S THAT EASY, REALLY, IT IS!!! "I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the seashore, and diverting myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me." - Sir Isaac Newton

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Fairy gold
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Persistent identities suck. Ideas stand or fall on their own. Reputation capital is fairy gold, evaporating with the morning dew.

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Re: Tim May's offensive racism (was: about RC4)
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Anybody remember when people still used the term "ObCrypto" in their posts? That was back when the list still meant something about crypto and freedom, before it became dedicated to racial hatred. I understand that the catchphrase de rigeur is now "ObJapBashing".

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