December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Content controls
by Tim May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 1:57 PM -0700 11/8/97, William H. Geiger III wrote: >Once you have given me the keys to unlock and display the data I can save >it, copy it, reproduce it and distribut it. To assume otherwise shows a >lack of understanding of computer systems and moderen OS's. Sure I would >need to write some software and jump through some hoops to do it but there >is nothing that your system can do to prevent me from doing so. Now wether >it is worth the effort to do so will depend on the value of the data >involved. Once you have given me the ability to display the data you have >lost the battle as I can do whatever I want with it. Exactly so. Once able to go into the listener's ears, the viewer's eyeballs, or the customer's whatever, the battle is basically lost. About the best that can be hoped for is to insert some "almost unnoticeable mark"--a watermark, a notch filter (a la early scheme for combatting DAT piracy), etc. And even these "almost unoticeable marks" are easily twiddled away. Unless they are so noticeable that serious image or sound distortion occurs when the marks are removed or obscured. Even purely digital works are easily copied. Even unique IDs per software piece are easily removed (e.g., by having N customers compare and diff out the noncommon bits). --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Selling a Persistent Identity
by nobody＠neva.org 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- How would you sell a persistent identity with a good reputation? The obvious method of selling the secret key doesn't work because the buyer has to trust the seller not to resell it. This could be solved by revealing your True Name, but that's no fun. A nym with a good reputation for this sort of business could be used, but that wouldn't be any fun either since it could link a series of identities with one source. The only thing I can think of is to have a trusted party who creates and manages the key. When the owner of the key wants to sign something, he or she sends it to the trusted party for signing and transmission. To sell the key, the trusted party is instructed to accept the buyer's messages instead of the seller's. The buyer and the seller never actually possess the key themselves. Is there a better way to do this? Monty Cantsin Editor in Chief Smile Magazine http://www.neoism.org/squares/smile_index.html http://www.neoism.org/squares/cantsin_10.htm -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNGi+FZaWtjSmRH/5AQFS1Qf+OPGg/JLuKVB7nab83W1Yh23woJ/om5pD VDsiawtPAcwBRZhwVfOZltuJvovT7rgU7+Jqp6tzhuD8QApY48BSi36ywz+IQnH8 tLJgGV/g1j/afalEhdaOB13LsoBpYmTLvptK296FvUXYPNYumx3e16M8hJxq8SNF 2Tm3Z+ifH0gRLJKjAhOqyG2iMqnmtIYZzmhavPz6thjrE9nKaEE2PII5T2SP9B/J sNsOJ7sjElWGlxemEGc9uR9wAKV/5qlMRRB8DOdLgcQTndjikvHU5uPb9lLYiSYc 4/nDbZNfe6W+gZj71Utm2Ubwu+x/3+fF46Db7j5e6XSrGCx+EzC7nA== =QIDm -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Br'er Tim and the Bug Hole
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dumb of me to get in the middle of this, but the bloodlust's up: Tim's statements are gutsy and right: there's no gain in self-censoring, shading one's anger to appease the goons of whatever firepower. (Bob, go to end.) Most massive firepower can't focus on or hit exclusively small targets, that's what's a lie about "surgical" strikes. Waste the countryside, yes, hit one rabbit and not the beloved dog and fellow hunter, little chance. What it takes is sharpshooting: a one shot, one target, one pig, one sticker. True, Horushi's snipe worked, it nailed an innocent, though a couple of others died to set him up for his own nailing. True, Waco worked, it charred a crowd of innocents, though a few others got plugged setting up the roast, and the 2nd roast. True, firebombing works, as does mass weaponing --nukes, chemicals and germs -- but indiscriminately, by terrorism of the masses, at the price of also terrifying the citizenry paying for the megadeath heritage. All standoff firepower is limited against the individual by imprecision of the killing machines and cowardice of the operators -- artillery, planes, ships, satellites, take your pick. They savage territory to save the operator's ass, who, as anyone knows who been around these candyass strutters, aint got what it takes to cut the guy's throat who's stabbing your eye. What's my point? Well, for lack of a better word, it's personal courage, going nuts when the time's right, the guts to not shut the fuck up when you're told to by those who're a whole lot bigger, who've got more armaments and thinks they're smarter and more ruthless and meaner and have the troops, rank and medals to back it up. Just remember that most of those strengths are for getting somebody else or a machine to do what is too fucking terrifying to do yourself directly. Do this when the monster accosts: pull your forelock, say sorry sir, then upstab the fucker's groin, as he doubles, hack the cord, he'll go down quivering, then cut out his liver, kick up his green face, squat close, show him the blob, take a bite, chew, savor, swallow, put lip to dying ear, whisper, "tasty." Go home, get a beer, stare the tube, sharpen your tool. Or as maddog Tim sez, lock and load. But look, I'm with Bob, too, my tool's philosophy gone berzerk, trash words, wags, gags, alliterations, mouth shooting. My steel weapons are locked from burglars who scare the shit out of me just by looking like ordinarily ugly wall streeters, that is, like my maddog neighbors eyeing me for junk IPO sales. Sure glad my war's long over, happily getting dimmer, easier to forget the godawful. Hey, it's veteran's day, anybody want to croak and limp to glories past?

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Re: 1st Ammendment Tossed in Paladin Case
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tim May wrote: > In the infamous "Twenty-Nine Palms" poll of soldiers, asking if troops > would fire on civilians if ordered to carry out an order, the longer the > soldier had been in the service, the less likely he was to say he would. > (The context of this order is generally believed to be related to a > Department of Defense involvement in the wholesale disarming of the > population under a state of emergency, FEMA or U.N. orders, etc.) Note that "Twenty-Nine Palms" was the military home/liason of those involved in the INSLAW travesty. (Everyone _not_ working for the Department of Justice who can say "Fuck You" to Congress and get away with it, raise your hand.) > This is consistent with the military retireds I know being _extremely_ > anti-government. Usually with a right-wing flavor, but then that is > understandable. It is a fact that we tend to narrow our range of perception when we get involved in any cult/religion/organization and bestow some of our own innate responsibility/authority upon them. Once separated from the group, however, we then tend to regain more control over our individual beliefs and values, whereupon we are more likely to recognize where we stepped beyond or own moral/ethical values while caught up, to whatever extent, in 'group mind.' This has been discussed on the list (e.g. Declan goes to Washington!) and, thankfully, we have a weird enough assortment of not-quite-normal SubGenius Bizzaro CypherPundits to keep us pissing all over ourselves and one another to make the possibility of us becoming dues-paying members of the CypherSheeple Union a remote possibility. A CypherPunk nuking DC would not be a tragedy. What would be a tragedy would be if, after being asked "Why?", he or she turned around to ask 'the group', "Uuhhh...why did I do that, again? Hey! Where did everybody go?" Any physical war or revolution in the future will be largely dependent upon the success of the parallel InfoWar designed to direct (or prevent) the thinking of those who the government provides with weapons and authority. We need as many of them as possible to be smiling inwardly to themselves when they say, "My gun is loaded, Sarge...and I'm 'right behind' you, all the way." LoadAndUnlockMonger

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Re: Gun Control brings on a New Arms Race
by Mix 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Tim May wrote: >(A friend of a friend scored a "cold" Glock 17L...$400 in "NQA" >condition, immediate delivery.) What is a "cold" weapon? What does "NQA" mean? Thanks. Monty Cantsin Editor in Chief Smile Magazine http://www.neoism.org/squares/smile_index.html http://www.neoism.org/squares/cantsin_10.htm -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNGi1EZaWtjSmRH/5AQEmVgf/VAzaeo6sgWdNgeBDROt9iZWFZcQi/CZX vvT0cgaOYlSiIKGUKNLqRj8wevyNKQ6fiVLQjMt6zPXCFxzt+BL32NbGOpDZa2Jb YdcGWI3umciOYDxpDMVfnx3W16NiY4rwE5ckj1UnaJHgvut7Y4EtqPjsgcvg86O3 1PhPOxQcCJV+YYIAFu97IYaqkf8L2b+FUNa3DiMqHdTkj2TmbcQWWMPNPPxKIOqJ rMFgN8FSrkh7Js80vdre7Lipg32DyMr6xyzaW5OOxQ5J2IZLZNckn5wNyvulJXio zJyrZEeCwoIW1quHPiiH9/NirjMqw/w0Oi9qvusVKE0az6J6/xLoBQ== =lsaA -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Secure Hashing for Entropy
by Mix 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Often we have a source of entropy whose output we use as the input to a secure hash function. Does it matter if the hashing function is secure? I don't think so. All that really matters is that the function hashes evenly so that any input string is about as likely as any other input string to result in a particular hash. Even if the hash function is weak and collisions can be found, if it is even the same level of entropy is still available. Have I got this right? Monty Cantsin Editor in Chief Smile Magazine http://www.neoism.org/squares/smile_index.html http://www.neoism.org/squares/cantsin_10.htm -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNGi7K5aWtjSmRH/5AQHNmgf8DddkfsAzC1xTLmOn1eS8Vsxx7HgxwEOh VGpiRC2D29N+y0z9+JZltiNd298QmfvlArYRXBFAC8dKvznf6HWa/xPetW+KqebQ qOKel9hw3pfT8jeRC6G1M9oarWPjU9jOGLlv/DByCI8EcUVvb3Kk9PxdywFpT289 vEFmfDQObHH9BtQFf2hrphx8FtE8QHWIeJMcA16QfKZX/nel9pWEyaXUfE6Rvwuh 3REctj4E/uoTi4FRBjxgFx4pnraIGqg2wVA8Q/iGr41BxauBgRZ+sMZt0CH/x9cc IAKSUuY709Gme6HEqWLyMDdIDZ3Y24xbd9r3eyjFGZZYeaGwG4KowQ== =Ey6Q -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Thank You
by Joe Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Thank you for your recent inquire. President, Joe Anonymous Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere! http://www.mailexcite.com

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Bug Bounty: Disappearing Cryptography...
by Peter Wayner 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

My publisher is preparing to reprint my book _Disappearing Cryptography_. As part of a general maintence scheme, I'm offering a reward of $10.00 for the first person to discover a technical error found in the book. Find as many as you can and win some cash. Naturally, there are some limitations to the offer: * Only the first person to report an error is eligible for the reward. The final decision in the case of a tie, will be up to me. The ties will be broken using the time my SMTP server (access.digex.net) receives the mail. I reserve the right to give out multiple rewards in the case of a tie or a close finish. In fact, I'll aim to do this. I just don't want the situtation to emerge where everyone can send me the same bug report and feel eligible for a reward. * Some multiple errors may only count once. Imagine that the third page was missing from the book. Technically, all following pages would be misnumbered. I reserve the right to group any collection of bugs together and label them one error. I will use this right judiciously to avoid hair splitting arguments, but not to deny people multiple rewards. The more errors that are fixed, the better. * Grammar errors aren't eligible, but I welcome any comments. These disputes are often more issues of taste than rule. -Peter Wayner

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Re: ???
by VME Encryption 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dear Bill Geiger, My first reacation to your followup letter was getting more upset, and I almost replied with another mad letter. But then I decided to better myself and see who I'm dealing with. I've looked at your web site, and looks like you might be a nice person. So, I tried to figure out the reason for the previous vicious letter that was completely unjustified and the following attacks you placed. I'll take it from the point that you might not know all the facts and explain. If that's not enough, I'm sorry. 1) The million dollars challenge is no longer valid for the last 3 months. 2) The current challenge bares NO monetary prize. 3) VME flowcharts, algorithm AND a working application is in the hands of 250 software companies for evaluation (Microsoft, IBM etc.) 4) We can not put it on the net, due to strict US export rules (as you mention in your web site as well) 5) Our program, flowcharts & algorithm have been filed with the US patent office and will be public domain within a year. If that helps explain our part, I'm glad. And if not, it's o.k. - it's a free country and everybody is entitled to their own mind. It's just feel sheety to be attacked by strangers that knows nothing about you, specially people that you might think should have some interest in keeping the individual right to privacy from government and te likes. We started this challenge with some goals in mind, but fighting with a group of cryptographers was not one of them. If anyone wants more technical data, we'll be glad to submit what we can under the circumstances, if someone wants to keep of flaming us, it's o.k. - but we won't respond anymore. Thanks, Project Management. At 09:17 AM 11/11/97 -0600, you wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >In <3.0.32.19971110100935.006d91b0(a)ibcnet.com>, on 11/10/97 > at 01:09 PM, VME Encryption <matrix(a)meganet.com> said: > >>I rest my case. Please email me your mailing address for the purpose of >>serving and we'll meet in court. > >Serve whatever you want, I will be glad to forward them to my lawyers. > >Just out of curiosity do you threaten to sue everyone who says somthing >you don't like?? > >BTW: you should keep posting *publicly* I showed the thread from the >CP-List and sci.crypt to my lawyers yesterday. They laughed so hard they >bought me free drinks at the clubhouse. Who knows a few more posts from >you and I may be able to get a steak dinner out of them. :) > >- -- >- --------------------------------------------------------------- >William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii >Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 > >Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice >PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. >OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html >- --------------------------------------------------------------- > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >Version: 2.6.3a >Charset: cp850 >Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 > >iQCVAwUBNGh40Y9Co1n+aLhhAQEeZwP8Cbi4+b1a1x0azGyG5gJm6t2XlW835lxj >7kZy8ejki6Nh3LiEMLjLtwN1SwPu78Gfyubn587qx9yNhuig4VMKvXOGXY3lDN4b >Q6WnAIrLC27oMtllewpJyfICZ01sdqaR8A4X2QkarhHHracn/xDo0EEDEfe6FrsN >NCG9mpjeEyU= >=byvY >-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > >

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17 Dec '03

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DCSB: James O'Toole on Digital Coupons and Distributed Commerce
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- The Digital Commerce Society of Boston Presents Dr. James O'Toole Open Market, Inc. Digital Coupons and Distributed Commerce Tuesday, December 2, 1997 12 - 2 PM The Downtown Harvard Club of Boston One Federal Street, Boston, MA Jim says, "Open Market's Transact commerce system version 3.0 introduces new Digital Coupon capabilities that enable merchants to create price promotion and special discount offers for their customers. Digital Coupons provide a secure way for an online merchant to easily implement repricing rules that a Transact-based distributed commerce system uses to adjust prices at the point of sale. This talk will include a brief overview of Open Market's commerce product suite and their architecture. I will explain how Digital Coupons work, provide concrete details of how Transact 3.0 processes coupons and their impact on APIs, screens, and smart statements. I will also discuss the implications of digital coupons and similar artifacts on the design of distributed commerce solutions that rely on trusted intermediaries." Dr. O'Toole is a senior member of the research and advanced development staff of Open Market. His current focus is on technology development and software product architecture. In 1997, Jim was responsible for the conception of Open Market's Digital Coupon products. Prior to joining Open Market in 1996, Jim completed his Ph.D. in Electrical Engineering and Computer Science at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. This meeting of the Digital Commerce Society of Boston will be held on Tuesday, November 4, 1997, from 12pm - 2pm at the Downtown Branch of the Harvard Club of Boston, on One Federal Street. The price for lunch is $32.50. This price includes lunch, room rental, various A/V hardware, and the speaker's lunch. ;-). The Harvard Club *does* have dress code: jackets and ties for men (and no sneakers or jeans), and "appropriate business attire" (whatever that means), for women. Fair warning: since we purchase these luncheons in advance, we will be unable to refund the price of your lunch if the Club finds you in violation of the dress code. We will attempt to record this meeting and put it on the web in RealAudio format at some future date We need to receive a company check, or money order, (or, if we *really* know you, a personal check) payable to "The Harvard Club of Boston", by Saturday, November 29, or you won't be on the list for lunch. Checks payable to anyone else but The Harvard Club of Boston will have to be sent back. Checks should be sent to Robert Hettinga, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, Massachusetts, 02131. Again, they *must* be made payable to "The Harvard Club of Boston", in the amount of $32.50. Please include your e-mail address, so that we can send you a confirmation If anyone has questions, or has a problem with these arrangements (We've had to work with glacial A/P departments more than once, for instance), please let us know via e-mail, and we'll see if we can work something out. Upcoming speakers for DCSB are: January Joseph Reagle "Social Protocols": Meta-data and Negotiation in Digital Commerce February Donald Eastlake SET We are actively searching for future speakers. If you are in Boston on the first Tuesday of the month, and you would like to make a presentation to the Society, please send e-mail to the DCSB Program Commmittee, care of Robert Hettinga, <mailto: rah(a)shipwright.com> . For more information about the Digital Commerce Society of Boston, send "info dcsb" in the body of a message to <mailto: majordomo(a)ai.mit.edu> . If you want to subscribe to the DCSB e-mail list, send "subscribe dcsb" in the body of a message to <mailto: majordomo(a)ai.mit.edu> . We look forward to seeing you there! Cheers, Robert Hettinga Moderator, The Digital Commerce Society of Boston -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5 iQEVAwUBNGmx0MUCGwxmWcHhAQH0LAf9FuAYUFQ+gf80qGXkzWOGMQ62FseOal56 +BPlynyDxk9FGAstvm73uDzDJa+Tr+o8kbA29MEIo0CWClUDMuTVOgXWXA4Uroqb /cDjhNG0K1VOvp+zcMQm7RBtLZA52bqjQ8ep/rAH2eKbHPtUk/Iuqh1IODEZY9mv u+RByPLs5eJwNRS0+k/6sbFAzqmJw41Q1KO5uHsXRWX82ZRq0S2XloxwuXTq+teR EXox/s3hk/9vEy/ZZp1Pc2ubWZjsS+CdU+Gv3pGqhQpF/24leapZFgABCD2H7EH/ /fCkt/LFFC0+AbRjYBvYop4uy0a1J+2TQ24KdFDl8P5UOIx5+FVlTg== =vtpD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: <http://www.fc98.ai/>

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Re: Some IDIOT called CRYPTO CZAR INTERNATIONAL
by VME Encryption 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dear Paul, I'll ignore all profanities and go straight to the points you make: 1) Never heard of LCSR (or whatever) and we market our product ourself, Meganet Corporation from California USA. 2) AOL, NCR, Perot Systems & dozens other have already looked into the product and contaced us, so yes, they did saw it and liked what they saw. 3) you use a lot of acronyms - what is CMR ? LCSR ? 4) If you've been misinformed, then I hope that straighten it up for you, and if you're still upset about whatever, may god bless you. more info at www.meganet.com If you want more info and can keep a decent language, email us back. If you preffer to keep on flaming, cool for you, but we won't bother answering. p.s. - I wonder if you know what's the source of all the bad rep we've got - nobody knows us and we never posted anything on your forum, so what the heck ? Thanks.

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FRB Crypto Systems
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Federal Register, November 10, 1997 Excerpt from a Federal Reserve Bank announcement: ... the Reserve Banks plan to change their policy for ownership of the encryption boards used by depository institutions with dial and multi-drop connections. These encryption boards are currently purchased and owned by the depository institutions. With the replacement of the encryption boards beginning in the second half of 1998 to enhance the security of the Federal Reserve's communications network, the Reserve Banks plan to purchase and assume ownership of these boards. This approach is consistent with Reserve Bank ownership of other equipment at depository institutions that is required for electronic connections to the Federal Reserve, specifically link encryptors and signaling equipment. Reserve Bank ownership should improve management of the security of the network and facilitate the implementation of an all-electronic key distribution system. This change in policy may affect future-year electronic connection fees, as priced services must recover depreciation costs associated with the new encryption boards. ---------- Are these systems related to Kawika Daguio's comments on PCCIP forwarded by Declan yesterday? Anyone have more detailed info on the boards and link encryptors?

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17 Dec '03

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Re: Bell vs. Woodward--justice?
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>Leaving aside the problem with a system where a judge can overturn the >decision of a Jury (I have not seen all of the evidence so have no idea >if she is guilty or innocent but if you enter a country you implicitly >agree to abide by their laws and legal system, however what is the point >of having a Jury if the Judge can do this sort of thing?) then the actual >problem is the length of time that Jim is spending in prison and nothing >to do with the Woodward case at all. It just goes to illustrate, once again, >how laws are selectively enforced and procedures slowed in order to punish >people who can not otherwise be punished as much as the administration would >like to. Throwing the woman in jail for eight months without her ever being convicted is itself an injustice. She should have been aquitted because of that bit of bullshit alone. Yes the same goes for anybody else who is punished in any way before they are convicted. That aside, you ask what the point of having a jury is if the judge can overturn a conviction. There's no problem with the judge overturning a conviction if the evidence warrants it, if the trial was a joke, or something along those lines. We don't convict people in this country based on what the public thinks of them, and that includes a jury. If the jury convicts somebody when the evidence doesn't warrant a conviction -- regardless of the reason why they convicted them, which may be as inane as "But he *might* have been gay, and Jesus doesn't like that" -- it is the judge's duty in the interests of justice to overturn the conviction. If the judge is overturning aquittals, then we have problems. And I would suggest we lock and load if the judge had done that and thrown her in prison. As it is, I only suggest that everyone lock and load because they threw her in jail before she was convicted. She hadn't yet had her trial, so she shouldn't have been in jail, period. The same goes for Jim Bell, his "crimes," and his waiting 7 months for sentencing. Lock and load.

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Re: More Crypto Statements
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

What explains this flurry of crypto-statements on the floor of the Senate on Saturday and Sunday? Simple: Our elected representatives had nothing else to do. By late Sunday evening, the vote over fast-track had been postponed ten times as union and corporate lobbyists jockeyed for position with the White House for votes. While smoke was filling the back rooms of the Capitol, members had nothing else to do but twiddle their thumbs. Debate noncontroversial legislation. Recount election battles. And pledge loyalty to strong crypto. Of course increased (or at least more effective) industry lobbying had something to do with the floor statements. These sorts of brief speeches are a sign of a well-honed lobbying campaign. Note, BTW, the tone of the Senate statements. The defeat of Burns' ProCODE bill in the Senate means that crypto-proponents are on the defensive. Murray is forced to say S.909 (McCain-Kerrey) "does not go far enough" in lifting export ctrls -- true, since it also sets up a key escrow infrastructure. There is no pro-crypto bill in the Senate now for crypto-advocates to rally around. (Leahy's is a key escrow wishlist.) Also note that Dreier's statements are significant: "Congress should lift the controls on encryption software" and not move towards mandatory key escrow. He is a senior member of the House Rules committee, which will pass judgement on and reconcile the five versions of SAFE sooner or later. One of those versions is the FBI-friendly one with restrictions on manufacture, distribution, and sale of unapproved crypto products. -Declan At 20:20 -0500 11/10/97, John Young wrote: >Declan, anyone, is this flood of statements due to an >industry campaign, or one by Majortiy Leader Lott, >or Speaker Gingrich, or a combination, or what? > >What's your insider intel, Declan, will these initiatives continue >into the next session or are they just cheap dues paying >for the moment, while getting ready to sellout when the >rain of if-you-knew-what-we've-been-briefed shit showers >down next year?

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Re: Australian sheep [WAS RE: Bell vs. Woodward--justice?]
by Tim May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

(An interesting essay from an Australian was sent to me via an anonymous remailer...at least he or she claimed to be Australian. As I can only respond to him or her via the list, here's my reply.) At 6:42 PM -0700 11/11/97, Anonymous wrote: >>>>>> "T" == Tim May <tcmay(a)got.net> > T> As for Australia, your countrymen acted like sheep in giving up > T> their guns. If they try that kind of shit here in this country, > T> a *lot* of cops are going to get killed. > > T> (Not necessarily by me, though I'll defend my property and my > T> constitutional rights as best I can. But the militia and patriot > T> and anti-New World Order movements are preparing for war.) > >As an Australian I couldn't agree more with your conclusion Tim. >Australians showed a shameful and cowardly disregard for individual >liberty and freedom on the gun issue and a time will come I'm sure ... And let me assure you that I am not insulting all Australians. I call them as I see them, whether it's Americans (the most common target of my analyses), Germans, French, Swedes, etc. ... >sources. We have in doing this showed just how sheep like we are for >instead of taking some responsibility for our own future defence needs >we have placed ourselves at the feet of the USA for our continued >freedom to pass even more restrictive laws on ourselves. We will all >rue the day America loses interest in us and no doubt some of our >ernest friends to our north will at that point suddenly show a very >great interest in this land. Anyone who seriously believes otherwise "Pax Americana" is the name for this trend. America sits astride the world, as the only remaining military superpower, and an economic superpower as well. I say this not to be jingoistic, but as an expression of reality. The former Soviet Union is in disarray, and its submarines and ICBMs are apparently rusting away and will soon be inoperable. This is, in a sense, good news. The United States almost bankrupted itself in the 40-year Cold War. And now, instead of turning swords into plowshares, cutting taxes, and getting on with life, American sends its aircraft carriers to far-off places, acts as the world's policeman, draws lines in the sand and dares Saddam to cross them, threatens trade wars, and browbeats other nations. (I'd gladly settle for a broken up USA, with five or six economic/political regions, each too small to run around the world butting into the affairs of distant nations. The coming chaos may succeed in doing this.) >is a fool. Personally I have laid down a weapons cache that would, at >the hands of our media, make me look like an invading army myself. >Some of my friends have done likewise. I believe it is my right, >indeed my duty to provide for my own defence. In doing so I am now run >the risk of 20 years imprisonment. Of course since I run this risk >(and self defence is no longer a justification for holding a weapon in >this country) I have not limited myself to semi-auto weapons as they >are now as illegal as automatic weapons, grenades, mines etc. In for a >penny in for a pound. One of the first things the invading U.S. forces did in Somalia was to disarm the civilian population. (I am not making this up.) The farmers protested that they would be left defenseless against the nomadic guerillas and looters. Ah, but the benevolent U.S. decided, via consultations with the U.N., that the key to peace lay in disarming those they could disarm. As the U.S. found, those they were unable to disarm kicked their asses all around Mogadishu. Dragging a chopper pilot around town was just the most visible sign. So the U.S. retreated. Is this portrayed as a defeat? Nope. The warmongers talk about how America has "bounced back" from its loss in Viet Nam and has not lost a war since. More reason to invade other nations. Anyway, disarming the civilians is now U.S. policy. Not too surpising that Clinton looks with favor on the recent disarmings in the U.K. and Australia (and with newer restrictions in Canada, too). >regardless. It is our right and duty, as free men and women to be able >to defend ourselves and god help anyone who comes to disarm us. The >ban, if anything has forced true patriots to decide just which side of >the line they stand on and fostered a more extremist attitude towards >those who would stand aside while the people are murdered. We realise >that constitutional protections such as enshrined in your great >Constitution are won only with blood and not with the talk of the >corrupt. Some of us are awaiting the coming tide with relish. > >Good luck and good hunting, Amen. And Australia should not be completely surprised if the U.S. offers to send "peacekeeping troops" to your country to help with the disarmament. The conspiracy theorists who talk about the New World Order and U.N. "Blue Helmets" roaming U.S. streets have it only half right: the other side of the New World Order is having U.S. troops, possibly under U.N. flags (barf), patrolling conquered, er, liberated territories. I don't want to see my fellow countrymen die in foreign wars, but it wouldn't break my heart to see some Aussie sharpshooters taking out foreign invaders. Should this event happen. (Many of us are fighting the New World Order, and I don't personally think there will be Americans sent in large numbers to quell large populations. America likes picking on countries much smaller than itself.) Good luck. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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48 MILLION Email Leads $195 + BONUSES
by BdavidC＠venus.gmds.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Re: FRB Crypto Systems
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

:: Anon-To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com John Young wrote: > Federal Register, November 10, 1997 > Excerpt from a Federal Reserve Bank announcement: > > ... the Reserve Banks plan to change their policy > for ownership of the encryption boards used by depository > institutions with dial and multi-drop connections. These > encryption boards are currently purchased and owned by the > depository institutions. With the replacement of the > encryption boards beginning in the second half of 1998 to > enhance the security of the Federal Reserve's communications > network, the Reserve Banks plan to purchase and assume > ownership of these boards. Not that they are preparing to take fascist control of all electronic funds in preparation for the coming Financial Holocaust. Has anyone that you can't look *anywhere* in the government regulatory scheme without seeing signs of preparation for *seizing* control of information, finances and communications? I remember going into a black bar in a very bad neighborhood in Seattle and being befriended by the nicest black man in the whole world. After sharing intimate buddy-buddy details of his life with me he suggested that if I gave him my wallet to hold then I wouldn't have to worry about some of the "bad" black people in the establishment robbing me. I didn't give him my wallet, but I _did_ vote for him. {;>) El !Fool

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UN Conference - Limits on Internet speech [CNN]
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > U.N. CONFERENCE DEBATES LIMITS ON INTERNET SPEECH > > Internet racism graphic November 11, 1997 > Web posted at: 9:14 p.m. EST (0214 GMT) > > GENEVA (AP) -- Concerned at the growing use of the Internet for > racist propaganda, international experts are debating how -- and > whether -- to combat the spread of computerized hate messages. > > Binding global controls on the Internet are unlikely, officials said > Tuesday, since the technology is changing faster than rules can be > made, and because of free speech protection in the United States. > > The United Nations is sponsoring a week-long meeting of human rights > activists, government officials and Internet service providers as > part of efforts to ensure compliance with an international treaty > banning racial discrimination. It ends Friday with a list of > recommendations. > > "There are 148 countries who have accepted this convention and they > are under obligation to enact measures to implement it," said Agha > Shahi of Pakistan, a member of the U.N. Committee on the Elimination > of Racial Discrimination. > > "Are we going to say the Internet should be exempt from any kind of > compliance with the rules of international behavior?" he asked. > > It is widely agreed that the Internet offers an open platform for > racists and white supremacists, although nothing has proved this > leads to a related rise in racist incidents. > > Much of the problem stems from the United States, where groups such > as the Ku Klux Klan, the Aryan Nations and skinheads base their Web > sites. > > Under the U.S. Constitution, which guarantees free speech, these > groups are permitted to post their views on the Internet, which can > be accessed by people in other countries. > > Although European countries like Sweden have moved toward making > Internet service providers responsible for the content they supply, > such restrictions are unlikely in the United States, and hence, > internationally. > > "In our tradition, it is only through the clash of views in vigorous > debate, and not through government censorship, that equality is well > served," Philip Reitinger of the U.S. Department of Justice said at > the U.N. meeting. "That principle -- one which accords freedom of > expression the highest respect -- applies with equal force to the > Internet." > > While the U.S. computer industry is voluntarily working on ways to > ensure that computer smut isn't accessible to minors, Eric Lee, of > the Internet service provider Commercial Internet eXchange, said it > was "not feasible and not desirable" for Internet providers to act > as censors. > > "It's difficult if not impossible to suppress content on the Web > because there are so many ways to evade controls," Lee said. "Which > does not mean that one should not take steps to limit behavior, but > coming up with foolproof controls is virtually impossible." > > Copyright 1997 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This > material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or > redistributed.

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Y2K: Canada status?
by Jean-Francois Avon 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Please reply to my personnal address, I am not on CPunks. Is there anybody who knows about the Y2K situation in Canada? Should we infer that the situation will be the same here or were any preparation steps taken by out govt that will postpone our contry's alledged fall by 2 microseconds (time for any major economic catastrophy in the US to reach us here) Ciao jfa "You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against -- then you'll know that this is not the age for beautiful gestures. We're after power and we mean it. Your fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick, and you'd better get wise to it. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. Once declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted -- and you create a nation of law-breakers---and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system...that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be easier to deal with." Ayn Rand

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U.N. conference on "hate sites" on the Internet
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

[I've attached the conference agenda below. --Declan] ************* Experts tell U.N. conference 'hate' sites on Internet may be here to stay Reuters GENEVA (November 11, 1997 2:47 p.m. EST http://www.nando.net) - Internet hate sites, such as one urging "Aryan brothers and sisters ... to combat racially inferior parasites," are unlikely to be stamped out because this would limit freedom of speech, experts said Tuesday. The need to respect free speech, as well as the sheer size of the task, emerged at a United Nations seminar as the two main obstacles to eradicating such material. The issue has become more pressing as the number of online hate sites soars and racism, neo-Nazism and anti-Semitism, find new niches on the Internet, speakers at the meeting said. But there is no easy answer to the question: who decides what is offensive on the Internet? "In Europe, it would be racist to say, 'I don't like Arabs.' In the United States, we can say 'I don't like Arabs, I don't like pink people.' Under freedom of expression, it's not against the law," said Debra Guzman, executive director of the U.S.-based Human Rights Information Network. "You can't ban this in the United States," she told a news conference. One problem is that Internet technology itself cannot distinguish between the offensive and the non-offensive, said Eric Lee, public policy director at the U.S. Commercial Internet Exchange. [...] ************* Dear Madam/Sir, I have the honour to inform you that within the framework of the implementation of the Programme of Action for the Third Decade to Combat Racism and Racial Discrimination, in pursuance of General Assembly resolution 51/81, the High Commissioner for Human Rights will organize a seminar on "The role of Internet with regard to the provisions of the International Convention on the Elimination of all Forms of Racial Discrimination". The purpose of the Seminar which will take place in Geneva from 10 to 14 November 1997 and bring together experts on the subject matter, representatives of governments, Internet Service Providers, and representatives of non-governmental organizations, is to find ways and means to ensure a responsible use of the Internet in the light of the International Convention on the Elimination of all Forms of Racial Discrimination. The draft agenda of the meeting reads as follows: (a) Racism and Racial Discrimination on Internet (b) Technical Aspects of screening racist propaganda on Internet: 1. National Measures 2. International Measures (c) Prohibition of racist propaganda on the Internet. Juridical Aspects: 1. National Measures 2. International Measures (d) Elements for an eventual Code of Conduct and good practice for displaying material on Internet (e) Recommendations. /... #012# I am very pleased, on behalf of the Secretary-General, to invite your Organization to send an observer to the seminar. In order that the necessary arrangements concerning conference facilities may be made in advance, I would be grateful to receive his or her name by 30 October 1997 at the latest. Under existing arrangements, your Organization would be expected to bear the costs of its representative. I am attaching to this letter, for your convenience, a briefing note relating to the seminar. Yours sincerely, John Pace Chief Research and Right to Development Branch ______________________________________________________________________ IMPLEMENTATION OF THE PROGRAMME OF ACTION FOR THE THIRD DECADE TO COMBAT RACISM AND RACIAL DISCRIMINATION SEMINAR ON THE ROLE OF INTERNET WITH REGARD TO THE PROVISIONS OF THE INTERNATIONAL CONVENTION ON THE ELIMINATION OF ALL FORMS OF RACIAL DISCRIMINATION Geneva, Palais des Nations 10-14 November 1997 PROVISIONAL AGENDA Monday 10 November Morning 10:00 - 13:00 Opening of the Seminar - Welcome address by High Commissioner for Human Rights - Election of the Bureau (Chairperson, Vice-Chairperson, Rapporteur) - Adoption of the agenda - Organisation of work Afternoon Working session I 15:00 - 18:00 Item I: Racism and Racial Discrimination on Internet - Keynote address by Ms. Debra Guzman, Executive Director The Human Rights Information Network - General discussion - Conclusion #012# Tuesday 11 November Morning Working session II.a 10:00 - 13:00 Item II: Technical Aspects of screening racist propaganda on Internet: National measures - Keynote address by Mr. Timothy L. Jenkins, Chairman of Unlimited Visions - General discussion - Conclusion Afternoon Working session II.b 15:00 - 18:00 Item III: Technical Aspects of screening racist propaganda on Internet: international measures - Keynote address by Mr. Eric Lee, Commercial Internet Exchange - General discussion - Conclusion Wednesday 12 November Morning Working session III.a 10:00 -13:00 Item IV: Prohibition of Racist Propaganda on the Internet: Juridical Aspects, National Measures - Keynote address by an expert of the Department of Justice, USA - General discussion - Conclusion Afternoon Working session III.b 15:00 - 18:00 Item V: Prohibition of Racist Propaganda on the Internet: Juridical Aspects, International Measures - Keynote address by Mr. Agha Shahi, member of the Commitee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination - General discussion - Conclusion #012# Thursday 13 November Morning Working session IV.a 10:00 - 13:00 Item VI: Elements for an eventual Code of Conduct and good practice for displaying material on Internet - Keynotes address by: Ms. Maya Sooka, Association for Progressive Communication, Johannesburg - General Discussion - Conclusion Afternoon Working session IV.b 15:00 - 18:00 Item VI: Elements for an eventual Code of Conduct and good practice for displaying material on Internet - Keynotes address by: Mr. Tony Rutkowsky, former senior ITU executive - General Discussion - Conclusion Friday 14 November Morning Free Time Afternoon 15:00 - 18:00 Conclusions and Recommendations Closing of the Seminar - Statement of the Chairperson - Final statement of the High Commissioner ------

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Hmmm
by wabe 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

So, just as a question, what COULD the FBI do, if it saw a real possibility for organized crime to get out of control if they no longer could do wiretaps? I have a friend in berlin who says the Russian Mob is moving in there. Scary. What should the FBI say? Is there even a Constitutional option? _______________________________________ -wabe

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Re: Y2K: Canada status?
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Jean-Francois Avon wrote: > Please reply to my personnal address, I am not on CPunks. > > Is there anybody who knows about the Y2K situation in Canada? > > Should we infer that the situation will be the same here or were any preparation steps > taken by out govt that will postpone our contry's alledged fall by 2 microseconds (time for > any major economic catastrophy in the US to reach us here) Canadians have the additional problem of having a lot of software which is customized to convert differing MM/DD/YY formats back and forth. More so than many other countries, because of the close working relationship of many small to medium companies with American customers and vendors. Many Canadian companies do not seem to realize that their software works with their 'Joe America' software package only because the guy who left the company six years ago did some obscure customization. I have seen problems that appeared only when Canadian companies updated their 'Joe America' software, and that was _without_ date-code changes. Many companies that run Canadian versions of software are also unaware of the customizations made to it by vendors in order to 'make' it work with US versions as it was advertised to do out of the box. As well, even Canadian companies who are ready and willing to tackle the Y2K problem are sometimes unable to do so until those who their software needs to interact with do so. It is sometimes very difficult for them to fix the 'Canadian' parts of the code without adjusting the 'American' parts of the code, with no assurance that once their American counterparts do their changes, all of their work/money goes out the window. During the decimal/metric changeover in Canada, I had more than one car which required me to have tools for 'both' systems, to do even the smallest of mechanical tasks on it. Now might be a great time to invest in companies who resisted the move to computerization, and who still have bookeepers and the like on staff. CanuckMonger

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Re: Br'er Tim and the Bug Hole (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 23:18:49 -0500 > From: Robert Hettinga <rah(a)shipwright.com> > Subject: Re: Br'er Tim and the Bug Hole > Remember my old Neitsche joke about the rabbits demanding their rights and > the lions asking to see their claws? You, Tim, or anyone else we know, even > those with arsenals :-), are but mere ferrets in comparison. 'mere ferrets'? You obviously don't know much about the predatory nature of the mustella clan (ferrets, weasels, badgers, etc.). From a predator stand-point they are excellent hunters, routinely killing prey *three* times their body weight by themselves. By no means is that routine of predators of any ilk other than felines (statisticaly hitting 70% kill rates on average, dogs do good if they hit 40% in packs). You should do a little research into mustella negripe, the American Black-footed Ferret (distantly related to the European Ferret at best). No, being a ferret is *not* an insult but rather a compliment. Pound for pound if you got to pick a fight don't pick one with felines or mustellids they *will* kick your weasy little butt. And yes, I am a cat & ferret lover. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there | | be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves. | | | | -Alan Greenspan- | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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