December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: SynData/Schneier Attack Network Associates
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

cvhd(a)indyweb.net wrote: >I have never bought into any of the conspiranauts BS about >PGP backdoors as long as PZ was involved with it but I will >certainly assume it is to be a "given" with PGP in the hands >of McAfee. Has Phil Zimmermann responded to the months long criticism of PGP 5.0 for Business and PGP's acquisition by Network Associates? If not, what seems to be the most reasonable explanation for Phil not answering, to allay suspicions and sustain PGP's worldwide reputation? The explanations by others working with PGP, Inc. would surely be more credible if Phil expressed public support for their views. I still find it hard to accept that Phil would squander his personal reputation, and thereby the reputation of his invention, by refusing to provide a public accounting of what's happening with PGP Inc. And, no matter the legal and financial restrictions that might be contraining him. And no matter that PGP's competitors are probably encouraging some of the attacks. Security by obscurity, by indifference to public doubts, seems to be a surefire way to undermine Phil's years long struggle to distinguish himself from those less courageous than him who are pushing products less reliable than PGP has been believed to be until now. It's a haunting thought to consider that Phil may have been shown evidence by others that PGP is not as reliable as many have long believed, evidence that perhaps demonstrates what he knew all along. This is harsh suspicion and one that needs his response, if for no other reason to allay the fear that even prior versions of PGP are now suspect. PGP and Phil's personal reputation are at stake, not PGP, Inc., which is secondary. There are lots of folks whose freedom, if not lives, may be at risk due to his silence. Perhaps it's time for Phil to reaffirm that difficult choice between success and conviction, between making a killing and betraying others to do so. To remind those who think you can have both ways and get away with it is a cowardly fantasy too often hidden behind self-serving ethics. If Phil personally (not the PGP officer, not the distinguished scientist bullshit role, not the PGP employees) refuses to stand behind PGP as it has been known and trusted, then PGP and Phil should be denounced forever as a grand deception and treachery, even worse than the other crypto products eagerly shaped -- and openly proud of it -- to fit the specs of the paymaster snoops Phil himself once bravely challenged. I think Phil will come through now, as he has in the past, to distinguish himself and PGP (not Inc.) from the craven pack. If he doesn't, it's smart to give up using PGP in all its guises past and future.

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Re: words have value, for good or ill
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

A ghost speaking through the medium of replay.com communicated: >Consider: anyone might legitimately say they could understand why the >government opposes access to cryptography. It represents a threat to >their monopoly power. But if someone said they were becoming >convinced that restrictions on access to crypto were a good thing, >we'd be attacking them in an instant. These are two completely >different issues. One is a matter of understanding evil motivations, >which we can all benefit by. The other is a matter of advocacy of >evil. That must be opposed, and in fact this list has been a strong >force for such opposition. I see the list as a place to discuss ideas rather than as a propaganda vehicle or a political party. >The problem this raises is that it is difficult to know where May >stands on any issue. He makes contradictory statements, refuses to >reconcile them, even refuses to admit that they are contradictory. >Which is his true view? No doubt, whichever one turns out to be most >convenient in the end. Next you'll be telling us we should not obediently follow his every command! Whose side are you on? >What a weak and childish individual this is, this man who is said to >be the most respected of the cypherpunks. You might be happier if you did not associate with a group of weak and childish individuals. I have no doubt that Tim May contradicts himself from time to time. And, when he changes his mind he does not announce it to the list and carefully credit each person who influenced his views. Sometimes he is insensitive or even rude ("chop chop"). I've never seen him apologize, either. Probably he doesn't have the circuits to do it. But, so what? He's still the most interesting contributor to the list. I can well understand why you don't put him in your killfile. Perhaps instead of name calling, you should actually address a point or two and discuss it. If you think McVeigh did the wrong thing, it would be interesting to hear why. And it would interesting to hear why you believe that a McVeigh killing innocents is wrong, but a U.S. Air Force doing the same thing is right. Monty Cantsin Editor in Chief Smile Magazine http://www.neoism.org/squares/smile_index.html http://www.neoism.org/squares/cantsin_10.htm Subject: Re: words have value, for good or ill To: cypherpunks(a)algebra.com 25BA1A9F5B9010DD8C752EDE887E9AF3 [Cantsin Protocol No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Mises and Batman
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:46:31 -0800 to: misesmail(a)colossus.net from: news(a)mises.org subject: Mises and Batman Sender: owner-misesmail(a)colossus.net Precedence: Bulk This has to be a first in the history of the Austrian School. The new issue of THE BATMAN CHRONICLES, a quarterly, features "Berlin Batman," a story revolving around the Nazi confiscation of Ludwig von Mises's papers from his Vienna apartment in 1938. Batman attempts to rescue the papers from a German government train, and says of Mises, "I once met him, and I've read his work. He's a brave man to oppose the party in these barren times." Batman sees in Mises a comrade in arms. We won't give away the ending, but in a recap at the end of story, there are excerpts from Robin's 1998 "unpublished" "memoirs of the Batman": "Ludwig von Mises escaped to the United States when the Nazis ransacked his apartment in 1938. It was his landlady, a friend of his mother's, who told the authorities Von Mises was working on a new book which challenged Nazi social and economic policies. They slowed him down, but they couldn't stop him. He continued work on a book which was eventually published in '49, called 'Human Action', now considered one of the great libertarian works of our times." There is much more, and it is all beautifully drawn and written by Paul Pope. It is available at comic book stands everywhere. The price is $2.95. Cheers to D.C. Comics (1700 Broadway, New York, NY 10019)! --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: <http://www.fc98.ai/>

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A Medal -- Or A Prison Cell?
by Brian B. Riley 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

---------------- Begin Forwarded Message ---------------- Date: 12/06 1:10 AM Received: 12/06 11:39 AM From: James A Chappelow, chappja(a)mail.auburn.edu Reply-To: Vermont Libertarian, vtlp-list(a)catamount.com To: Multiple recipients of, vtlp-list(a)catamount.com >From the Liberator Online: A Medal -- Or A Prison Cell? Larry Gates, a 54-year-old ex-Marine, operates a convenience store in rural Iconium, Missouri. He's also a volunteer fireman. Last Christmas Eve he was listening to a licensed fire department radio when he heard a report that police were chasing two suspected murderers. Police had lost track of the suspects. From his knowledge of the area, Gates was aware that the car would pass directly in front of his store. Gates grabbed a shotgun and sidearm, and along with his three adult sons pulled two vehicles into the intersection, blocking it. Both vehicles had fire emergency lights flashing. A few seconds later the suspects' car approached the roadblock. Gates' son Carey motioned for the car to stop. Instead, the car suddenly accelerated directly at Carey. Gates fired his shotgun once at the car. The car swerved away from his sons, went around the roadblock, and continued down the road. Two of Gates' sons followed the car at a moderate pace. The car was driving erratically. Soon it slowed enough for the passenger, a woman, to leap out. Gates' sons stopped. The woman suspect was slightly wounded from Gates' shotgun. One of Gates's sons, an Emergency Medical Technician, administered first aid. The other son resumed following the car. When he came across the abandoned car, he called police. Shortly the other suspect was arrested. The two suspects, who had been abusing drugs for days, confessed to two homicides. The woman said the driver had planned to commit suicide by crashing the car. Did the Gates family get medals? No. The St. Clair, Missouri prosecutor has charged Larry Gates with "unlawful use of a weapon," a felony offense. He was released from jail on $5,000 bond. If convicted he faces up to five years' imprisonment and the permanent loss of his Second Amendment rights. Gates has turned down offers to plea bargain his charges down to a misdemeanor. He goes to trial December 10. Gun Owners of America has established a legal defense fund for Larry Gates. For info call 703-321-8585. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- The courts have found that citizens are not legally entitled to police protection, yet citizens who defend themselves and their communities are routinely prosecuted as if THEY are the criminals. We are forced to pay taxes to support a police force that is not required to defend us and is instead used to punish us for defending ourselves. I don't get it. James A Chappelow "History shows that all conquerors who have allowed the subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing." Adolf Hitler --------------------------------------------------- This message is from the VTLP-list (Vermont Libertarian) mailing list. To send a message to everyone on this list send email to <vtlp-list(a)catamount.com>. To unsubscribe from the list send eamil to <macjordomo(a)catamount.com> with "unsubscribe vtlp-list" in the body of the message. To subscribe to the list send email to <macjordomo(a)catamount.com> with "subscribe vtlp-list your name" in the body of the message. ----------------- End Forwarded Message ----------------- Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr For PGP Keys <mailto:brianbr@together.net?subject=Get%20PGP%20Key> "Never ask what sort of computer a guy drives. If he's a Mac user, he'll tell you. If not, why embarrass him?" - Tom Clancy

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Gay Youth Site Closed
by Eric Cordian 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The axe of censorship strikes again, this time against a gay-positive teen site. Moral alarmists screeched that depictions of kids embracing each other and kissing were "sexually suggestive." Can't have that, can we? The Seattle Times crows over the site's disappearance and praises efforts to prevent sex education from crossing over into "sex promotion." Woo Hoo! Alternative Kids Welcome to the Alternative Kids Web Page! This page is filled with links and information for kids who are searching out their sexual orientation. Do you feel that you might be bisexual, gay, or lesbian? This is the place for you. <http://www.cyberspace.org/~altkids/kids.html> Sounds like a mirroring opportunity. :) -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"

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Encrypted Horsemen Safe for Kiddies
by Eric Cordian 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Good one, Bob. ----- WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Online pornographers should be required to use encryption, said Rep. Bob Goodlatte, (R, Va.) Tuesday at the Internet Online Summit: Focus on Children conference held here. "That would certainly keep it away from children," said Goodlatte. "I'm not advocating encryption to let pornography flourish." Goodlatte, a champion of loosening encryption legislation, has sponsored legislation to allow the export of encryption products and another bill in the intellectual property arena, as well as another bill increasing liability for those found guilty of running Internet gambling operations. Goodlatte was the afternoon speaker in place of Newt Gingrich, speaker of the House, who couldn't attend. In addition, Attorney General Janet Reno postponed her appearance until Wednesday morning at 10:30. Goodlatte took the opportunity to speak of the Clinton adminstration's policy on encryption. "The Clinton administration's current encryption policies are a severe hinderance on the development of the full potential of the Internet," he said. He also said the House Judiciary Committee will begin a review of the Clinton administration's enforcement of laws on obscenity. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"

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The FREE info you requested
by ronman＠hotmail.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

HERE is the program YOU have been waiting for! Please print this information so you will read it comfortably. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Read through this program twice, then do the math! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Dear Friend, My name is Christopher Erickson. Two years ago, the corporation I worked at for the past twelve years down-sized and my position was eliminated. After unproductive job interviews, I decided to open my own business. Over the past year, I incurred many unforeseen financial problems. I owed my family, friends, and creditors over $35,000. The economy was taking a toll on my business and I just couldn't seem to make ends meet. I had to refinance and borrow against my home to support my family and struggling business. I truly believe it was wrong for me to be in debt like this. AT THAT MOMENT something significant happened in my life and I am writing to share my experience in hopes that this will change your life FOREVER.... FINANCIALLY!!! In mid-December, I received this program via email. Six months prior to receiving this program I had been sending away for information on various business opportunities. All of the programs I received, in my opinion, were not cost effective. They were either too difficult for me to comprehend or the initial investment was too much for me to risk to see if they worked or not. One claimed I'd make a million dollars in one year...it didn't tell me I'd have to write a book to make it. But like I was saying, in December of '92 I received this program. I didn't send for it, or ask for it, they just got my name off a mailing list. THANK GOODNESS FOR THAT!!! After reading it several times, to make sure I was reading it correctly, I couldn't believe my eyes. Here was a MONEY- MAKING PHENOMENON. I could invest as much as I wanted to start, without putting me further in debt. After I got a pencil and paper and figuredit out, I would at least get my money back. After determining that the program is LEGAL and NOT A CHAIN LETTER, I decided "WHY NOT". Initially I sent out 10,000 emails. It only cost me about $15.00 for my time on-line. The great thing about email is that I didn't need any money for printing to send out the program, only the cost to fulfil my orders. I am telling you like it is, I hope it doesn't turn you off, but I promised myself that I would not "cheat" anyone, no matter how much money it cost me! In less than one week, I was starting to receive orders for REPORT #1. By January 13th, I had received 26 orders for REPORT #1. When you read the GUARANTEE in the program, you will see that "YOU MUST RECEIVE 15 TO 20 ORDERS FOR REPORT #1 WITHIN TWO WEEKS. IF YOU DON'T, SEND OUT MORE PROGRAMS UNTIL YOU DO!" My first step in making $50,000 in 20 to 90 days was done. By January 30th, I had received 196 orders for REPORT #2. If you go back to the GUARANTEE, "YOU MUST RECEIVE 100 OR MORE ORDERS FOR REPORT #2 WITHIN TWO WEEKS. IF NOT, SEND OUT MORE PROGRAMS UNTIL YOU DO. ONCE YOU HAVE 100 ORDERS, THE REST IS EASY, RELAX, YOU WILL MAKE YOUR $50,000 GOAL." Well, I had 196 orders for REPORT #2, 96 more than I needed. So I sat back and relaxed. By March 19th, of my emailing of 10,000, I received $58,000 with more coming in every day. I paid off ALL my debts and bought a much needed new car. Please take time to read the attached program, IT WILL CHANGE YOUR LIFE FOREVER! Remember, it won't work if you don't try it. This program does work, but you must follow it EXACTLY! Especially the rules of not trying to place your name in a different place. It doesn't work, you'll lose out on a lot of money!!!!!! (REPORT #2 explains this.) Always follow the guarantee, 15 to 20 orders for REPORT #1, and 100 or more orders for REPORT #2 and you will make $50,000 or more in 20 to 90 days. I AM LIVING PROOF THAT IT WORKS !!! If you choose not to participate in this program, I'm sorry. It really is a great opportunity with little cost or risk to you. If you choose to participate, follow the program and you will be on your way to financial security. If you are a fellow business owner and you are in financial trouble like I was, or you want to start your own business, consider this a sign. I DID! Sincerely, Christopher Erickson PS Do you have any idea what 11,700 $5 bills ($58,000) look like piled up on a kitchen table? IT'S AWESOME! "THREW IT AWAY" "I had received this program before. I threw it away, but later wondered if I shouldn't have given it a try. Of course, I had no idea who to contact to get a copy, so I had to wait until I was emailed another copy of the program. Eleven months passed, then it came. I DIDN'T throw this one away. I made $41,000 on the first try." Dawn W., Evansville, IN "NO FREE LUNCH" "My late father always told me, 'remember, Alan, there is no free lunch in life. You get out of life what you put into it.' Through trial and error and a somewhat slow frustrating start, I finally figured it out. The program works very well, I just had to find the right target group of people to email it to. So far this year, I have made over $63,000 using this program. I know my dad would have been very proud of me." Alan B., Philadelphia, PA A PERSONAL NOTE FROM THE ORIGINATOR OF THIS PROGRAM By the time you have read the enclosed information and looked over the enclosed program and reports, you should have concluded that such a program, and one that is legal, could not have been created by an amateur. Let me tell you a little about myself. I had a profitable business for ten years. Then in 1979 my business began falling off. I was doing the same things that were previously successful for me, but it wasn't working. Finally, I figured it out. It wasn't me, it was the economy. Inflation and recession had replaced the stable economy that had been with us since 1945. I don't have to tell you what happened to the unemployment rate... because many of you know from first hand experience. There were more failures and bankruptcies than ever before. The middle class was vanishing. Those who knew what they were doing invested wisely and moved up. Those who did not, including those who never had anything to save or invest, were moving down into the ranks of the poor. As the saying goes, "THE RICH GET RICHER AND THE POOR GET POORER." The traditional methods of making money will never allow you to "move up" or "get rich", inflation will see to that. You have just received information that can give you financial freedom for the rest of your life, with "NO RISK" and "JUST A LITTLE BIT OF EFFORT." You can make more money in the next few months than you have ever imagined. I should also point out that I will not see a penny of your money, nor anyone else who has provided a testimonial for this program. I have already made over FOUR MILLION DOLLARS! I have retired from the program after sending out over 16,000 programs. Now I have several offices which market this and several other programs here in the US and overseas. By the Spring, we wish to market the 'Internet' by a partnership with AMERICA ON LINE. Follow the program EXACTLY AS INSTRUCTED. Do not change it in any way.It works exceedingly well as it is now. Remember to e-mail a copy of this exciting program to everyone that you can think of. One of the people you send this to may send out 50,000...and your name will be on every one of them!. Remember though, the more you send out, the more potential customers you will reach. So my friend, I have given you the ideas, information, materials and opportunity to become financially independent, IT IS UP TO YOU NOW! "THINK ABOUT IT" Before you decide against this program, as I almost did, take a little time to read it and REALLY THINK ABOUT IT. Get a pencil and figure out what could happen when YOU participate. Figure out the worst possible response and no matter how you calculate it, you will still make a lot of money! Definitely get back what you invested. Any doubts you have will vanish when your first orders come in. IT WORKS! Paul Johnson, Raleigh, NC HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PROGRAM WILL MAKE YOU $$$$$$ Let's say that you decide to start small, just to see how it goes, and we 'll assume you and all those involved send out 2,000 programs each. Let's also assume that the mailing receives a .5% response. Using a good list the response could be much better. Also many people will send out hundred s of thousands of programs instead of 2,000. But continuing with this example, you send out only 2,000 programs. With a 5% response, that is only 10 orders for REPORT #1. Those 10 people respond by sending out 2,000 programs each for a total of 20,000. Out of those .5%, 100 people respond and order REPORT #2. Those 100 mail out 2,000 programs each for a total of 200,000. The .5% response to that is 1,000 orders for REPORT #3. Those 1,000 send out 2,000 programs each for a 2,000,000 total. The .5% response to that is 10,000 orders for REPORT #4. That's 10,000 five dollar bills for you. CASH!!!! Your total income in this example is $50 + $500 + $5000 + $50,000 for a total of $55,550!!!! REMEMBER FRIEND, THIS IS ASSUMING 1,990 OUT OF 2,000 PEOPLE YOU MAIL TO WILL DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING... AND TRASH THIS PROGRAM! DARE TO THINK FOR A MOMENT WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF EVERYONE OR HALF SENT OUT 100,000 PROGRAMS INSTEAD OF ONLY 2,000. Believe me, many people will do that and more! By the way, your cost to participate in this is practically nothing. You obviously already have an internet connection and email is FREE!!! REPORT#3 will show you the best methods for bulk emailing and purchasing email lists. THIS IS A LEGITIMATE, LEGAL, MONEY MAKING OPPORTUNITY. It does not require you to come in contact with people, do any hard work, and best of all, you never have to leave the house except to get the mail. If you believe that someday you'll get that big break that you've been waiting for, THIS IS IT! Simply follow the instructions, and your dream will come true. This multi-level email order marketing program works perfectly...100% EVERY TIME. Email is the sales tool of the future. Take advantage of this non-commercialised method of advertising NOW!! The longer you wait, the more people will be doing business using email. Get your piece of this action!! MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING (MLM) has finally gained respectability. It is being taught in the Harvard Business School, and both Stanford Research and The Wall Street Journal have stated that between 50% and 65% of all goods and services will be sold throughout Multi-level Methods by the mid to late 1990's. This is a Multi-Billion Dollar industry and of the 500,000 millionaires in the US, 20% (100,000) made their fortune in the last several years in MLM. Moreover, statistics show 45 people become millionaires everyday through Multi-Level Marketing. INSTRUCTIONS: This is the GREATEST Multi-level Mail Order Marketing anywhere: STEP #1 Order all four 4 REPORTS listed by NAME AND NUMBER. Do this by ordering one REPORT from each of the four names listed on the next page. (4 REPORTS at US $5 each will be only $20 Total!) For each REPORT, send $5 CASH ( checks take longer to clear the bank.) AND a SELF-ADDRESSED, STAMPED envelope (BUSINESS SIZE #10) to the person listed for the SPECIFIC REPORT. INTERNATIONAL ORDERS SHOULD ALSO INCLUDE $1 EXTRA FOR POSTAGE. It is essential that you specify the NAME and NUMBER of the report requested to the person you are ordering from, and send CASH as checks take longer to clear the bank. You will need ALL FOUR 4 REPORTS because you will be REPRINTING and RESELLING them. DO NOT alter the names or sequence other than what the instructions say. IMPORTANT: Always provide same-day service on all orders. STEP #2 Replace the name and address under REPORT #1 with yours, moving the one that was there down to REPORT #2. Drop the name and address under REPORT #2 to REPORT #3, moving the one that was there to REPORT #4. The name and address that was under REPORT #4 is dropped from the list and this party is no doubt on the way to the bank. When doing this, make certain you type the names and addresses ACCURATELY! DO NOT MIX UP MOVING PRODUCT/REPORT POSITIONS!!! STEP #3 Having made the required changes in the NAME list, save it as a TEXT (.txt) file in it's own directory to be used with whatever email program you like. Again, REPORT #3 will tell you the best methods of bulk e-mailing and acquiring e-mail lists. STEP #4 E-mail a copy of the ENTIRE program (EVERYTHING THAT YOU HAVE READ HERE) to everyone whose address you can get your hands on. Start with friends and relatives first since it is easiest to convince them to take advantage of this fabulous & profitable opportunity. That's what I did. And they love me now, more than ever. Then, e-mail to anyone and everyone! Use your imagination! You can get e-mail addresses from companies on the internet who specialize in email mailing lists. These are very cheap, 100,000 addresses for around $35.00. IMPORTANT: You won't get a good response if you use an old list, so always request a NEW list. You will find out where to purchase these lists when you order the 4 REPORTS. ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ALL ORDERS!!! ABOUT THE FOUR REPORTS: You already know that each costing $5. They not only serve as a means to work this program, but also contain worthwhile information. Some people use these reports to help them with this program, or to start a completely new program of a similar structure. The reports explain how this structure works, and why. The reports also show how MLM is used by major corporations, and how to obtain e-mailing lists, and how advertise by ways such as bulk e-mailing. REQUIRED REPORTS TO BE ORDERED ARE LISTED BELOW ***Order each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME*** ALWAYS SEND A SELF-ADDRESSED, STAMPED ENVELOPE AND $5 CASH ( checks take longer to clear the bank) FOR EACH ORDER REQUESTING THE SPECIFIC REPORT BY its *NAME* AND *NUMBER* _____________________________________________________________________ REPORT #1 "HOW TO MAKE $250,000 THROUGH MULTI-LEVEL SALES" ORDER REPORT #1 FROM: Ron Rothstein P.O. Box 3011 Farmingdale, NY 11735 _____________________________________________________________________ REPORT #2 "MAJOR CORPORATIONS AND MULTI-LEVEL SALES" ORDER REPORT #2 FROM: M. Myre 324 Claude Lachenaie, QC J6W 5Y6 Canada _____________________________________________________________________ REPORT#3 "SOURCES FOR THE BEST MAILING LISTS" LIU Qi Box 34-451, Yu-Qiao-Bei-Li Yu-Qiao Post Office Tong-Xian, Beijing 101101 PR CHINA ____________________________________________________________________ REPORT #4 "EVALUATING MULTI-LEVEL SALES PLANS" ORDER REPORT #4 FROM: Jerry H. P.O. Box 2 Atwood, CA 92811-0002 USA =FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF CONCLUSION I am enjoying my fortune that I made by sending out this program. You too, will be making money in 20 to 90 days, if you follow the SIMPLE STEPS outlined in this mailing. To be financially independent is to be FREE. Free to make financial decisions as never before. Go into business, get into investments, retire or take a vacation. No longer will a lack of money hold you back. However, very few people reach financial independence, because when opportunity knocks, they choose to ignore it. It is much easier to say "NO" than "YES", and this is the question that you must answer. Will YOU ignore this amazing opportunity or will you take advantage of it? If you do nothing, you have indeed missed something and nothing will change. Please re-read this material, this is a special opportunity. If you have any questions, please feel free to write to the sender of this information. You will get a prompt and informative reply. My method is simple. I sell thousands of people a product for $5 that costs me pennies to produce and email. I should also point out that this program is legal and everyone who participates WILL make money. THIS IS NOT A CHAIN LETTER OR PYRAMID SCHEME. At times you have probably received chain letters, asking you to send money, on faith, but getting NOTHING in return, NO product what-so-ever! Not only are chain letters illegal, but the risk of someone breaking the chain makes them quite unattractive. You are offering a legitimate product to people. After they purchase the product from you, they reproduce more and resell them. It's simple free enterprise. As you learned from the enclosed material, the PRODUCT is a series of four FINANCIAL AND BUSINESS REPORTS. The information contained in these REPORTS will not only help you in making your participation in this program more rewarding, but will be useful to you in any other business decisions you make in the years ahead. You are also buying the rights to reprint all of the REPORTS, which will be ordered from you by those to whom you mail this program. The concise one and two page REPORTS you will be buying can easily be reproduced at a local copy center for a cost off about 3 cents a copy. Best wishes with the program and Good Luck! "IT WAS TRULY AMAZING" "Not being the gambling type, it took me several weeks to make up my mind to participate in this program. But conservative as I am, I decided that the initial investment was so little that there was no way that I could not get enough orders to at least get my money back. BOY, was I ever surprised when I found my medium sized post office box crammed with orders! I will make more money this year than any ten years of my life before." Mary Riceland, Lansing, MI TIPS FOR SUCCESS Send for your four 4 REPORTS immediately so you will have them when the orders start coming in. When you receive a $5 order, YOU MUST send out the product/service to comply with US Postal and Lottery laws. Title 18 Sections 1302 and 1341 specifically state that: "A PRODUCT OR SERVICE MUST BE EXCHANGED FOR MONEY RECEIVED." WHILE YOU WAIT FOR THE REPORTS TO ARRIVE: 1. Name your new company. You can use your own name if you desire. 2. Get a post office box (preferred, as there may come dozens or hundred of such $5 cash letters every day, you'd better to set private PO box to keep your money-in safety and convenient.) 3. Edit the names and addresses on the program. You must remember, replace the name and address next to REPORT #1 with YOURS and move the others down one, with the fourth one being BUMPED OFF the list. 4. Obtain as many e-mail addresses as possible to send until you receive the information on mailing list companies in REPORT #3. 5. Decide on the number of programs you intend to send out. The more you send, and the quicker you send them, the more money you will make. 6. After mailing the programs, get ready to fill the orders. 7. COPY the 4 REPORTS so you are able to sent them out as soon as you receive an order. IMPORTANT: ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ORDERS YOU RECEIVE! 8. Make certain the letter and reports are neat and legible. GUARANTEE The check point which GUARANTEES your success is simply this: you must receive 15 to 20 orders for REPORT #1. This is a must!!! If you don't within two weeks, email out more programs until you do. Then a couple of weeks later you should receive at least 100 orders for REPORT #2, if you don't, send out more programs until you do. Once you have received 100 or more orders for REPORT #2, (take a deep breath) you can sit back and relax, because YOU ARE GOING TO MAKE AT LEAST $50,000. Mathematically it is a proven guarantee. Of those who have participated in the program and reached the above GUARANTEES -ALL have reached their $50,000 goal. Also, remember, every time your name is moved down the list you are in front of a different REPORT, so you can keep track of your program by knowing what people are ordering from you. IT'S THAT EASY. REALLY, IT IS!!! REMEMBER: "HE WHO DARES NOTHING, NEED NOT HOPE FOR ANYTHING." "INVEST A LITTLE TIME, ENERGY AND MONEY NOW OR SEARCH FOR IT FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE." BEST WISHES! --------------------------------------------------------------------- HELP FILE --------------------------------------------------------------------- Dear Friends, I have taken the liberty to put together a help file for all of the people who purchase a report from me. This file may be distributed to all of your customers at no charge to you. This letter gives you the rights to give this file to everyone who purchases a report from you, so long as *this* file is distributed to them at no additional charge. INTERNET ADVERTISING FOR FREE Most of you will want to sell as many reports as possible, without having to purchase large bulk-e-mailings and expensive classified ads on the Internet. The three most effective methods to do this for free are: Web Pages with your current Internet Provider, Postings on Newsgroups, and Free Classified Ad areas on the World Wide Web. ---Post directly to potential downlines--- There are many ways you can build a downline, but the best is to start surfing the Classified ads on the Internet. Look for people that are doing business on the Internet selling products, such as craft items, how to bo oks, pagers, phone cards or anything where they are trying to sell a line of products. People who are in Network Marketing or MLM are also good prospects. The free classified ads are the best. Stay away from people how are trying to sell one item like their car, a boat or their house these are people how are not interested in a business proposition, they are there to make one sale and one sale only. At the bottom of these ads there is a place to send an e-mail message to the author of the ad, click on it and fill out the name field, and the field where you can put your e-mail address. Then leave what ever is in the subject field there, this way it shows you are sending them a message from their ad and not just picking them out of thin air. Then go on to the part where you can leave a message and put. I often respond to classified ads with below message: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Dear Business Minded Friend, Thank You for your posting. Please accept my invitation to examine another exceptional business opportunity -- Try what ' $20+Internet ' can bring you! :) Not a get-rich-quick plan. If you are willing to spend $20 and some free time with your computer to e-mail and advertise to people, then you are welcome to join us. How much money you make is determined by your efforts. A serious participant could expect to earn around $50,000. Send Your Request for FREE Information to: PLEASE ACCEPT MY SINCERE APOLOGY IF YOU RECEIVE THIS INFORMATION MORE THAN ONE TIME, AS IT RESULTED FROM YOUR POSTS IN MORE THAN ONE PLACE. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ The direct approach works best and quickest! HIGHLY RECOMMENDED !!! But! As you may have noticed, this way often incurs complain or attack from people without entrepreneurship. Advertising is always annoying to some people, but, there is always some other people just need the information advertised! This is why advertising industry is growing and growing... So you are advised to take a little more step to set two e-mail addresses, the one permanent ( along with the postal address ), and the initial one may become invalid at any time. At the next time you cover a new group of postings, you may need to generate a new e-mail address for those interested people to send info request. Anyway, there are lots of free e-mail services on the Net. If no secure permanent e-mail address available, you should suggest your downlines to use snail-mail to contact you. Actually, as the two files contain detailed information, your downlines have little necessity to contact you other than purchase one of the four business reports. ---Postings on Newsgroups--- Posting on newsgroups can be quite beneficial, but can also be the source of a great deal of junk mail, sent to you by merciless bulk mailers who don't know how to appropriately send bulk-mailings. These people often use software specially designed to rip your email address off of your post ings on a Newsgroup and place it in a large bulk emailing file. These files are often resold to countless companies who will start using this file to email all sorts of junk to you. The latest email I received from such a person, was a letter trying to get me to buy a machine that would generate a chemical you could rub onto you skin and it would cure a whole plethora of illnesses, among such outrageous claims, this chemical would cure the common cold, acne, asthma, AIDS, cancer, etc.. the list went on. Not only am I certain that this chemical is illegal (it claimed to cure you by destroying viruses and illness "by suffocation"), but sounded quite lethal. While this type of email might be good for a laugh (to see how naive people try to take you for), when you start receiving hundreds of them every week, it is annoying, and frustrating. Before I tell you which Newsgroups are good to post this opportunity on, I will tell you how you can trick these bulk e-mailers' software package into sending themselves an "undeleiverable mail" message. When you place a posting on a usenet group, try not to type your actual email address anywhere in your posting. You can type such things as "In an effort to reduce junk email I have placed a % sign where @ should be, please replace the % sign for an @ sign when replying to this email address" So your email address (if it was john(a)doe.com) would appear after this message as john%doe.com. This can help reduce your junk mail significantly, and rest assured, you will get junk mail from these unscrupulous e-mailers. Now that you are armed with this you are ready to place your postings. If some junk email doesn't bother you, you can just skip the above step (like I usually do. It is far too easy to just hit DELETE to get rid of unsolicited email). Still, there are some people who will flame you. There is no getting around that. A workplace hazard I suppose :) Good Newsgroups to place your ad for this opportunity. (I have had goodresponses from every one of the following groups): alt.business alt.business.accountability alt.business.import-export.computer alt.business.misc alt.business.multi-level alt.consumers.free-stuff alt.business.internet.commerce alt.make.money.fast alt.misc alt.alt alt.misc.jobs.offered alt.misc.misc alt.business.home.pc There are hundreds of others, but the idea here is to try and focus your postings to attract those people most likely to be interested in this opportunity. If you begin posting this opportunity in such outrageously unrelated places such as alt.lucid.dreams, you are likely to get flame email. So try to stay within the realm of business and "misc." groups.alt.business. home.pc is a HOT place to post this ad, I have had over 20 replies from this group within the last two days when I posted my ad. What should your posting consist of? I tend to not like posting the whole program on the newsgroups. I suppose you could do that, I suggest against it. It is far better to obtain a person's email address after they write you to request the program. That way you will be able to stay in touch with the person, and also gauge how successful a particular posting is before the snail-mail for orders starts to come in. You will then also be able to tell which postings are generating a good response, which are not generating responses and which places are really HOT. I typically write the following: --------------------------------------------------------------------- SUBJECT: MAKE 1997 *YOUR* YEAR. or: SUBJECT: INVEST IN YOURSELF THIS YEAR. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Posting: ----------- Why work for someone else when you can be working for yourself, making a very substantial income? If I offered to show you a program in which you could turn a $20 investment into thousands of dollars, would you be interested? Would you be interested if I offered you information on this program for FREE? Here's a look at the program I want to offer you this year: * Proven track record of success * Guaranteed program to raise capital fast (in about 90 days) * Quickly establish a "snowball growth" effect * Operate this business from home, office, or store * Completely Legal and "scam-free" under Lottery and Postal laws * No person-person selling * No personal contact with your customers if you don't want to * Learn how to harness the power of the Internet to your advantage * Obtain financial freedom in a very short period of time * People are scrambling to obtain information on this program (some people get on the Internet to LOOK for this program) * Originator of this program does not receive a dime for your participation * No-one above you "makes all the money" The 90-day clock to financial security is already working

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No Subject
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tim Mayo's abysmal grammar, atrocious spelling and feeble responses clearly identify him as a product of the American education system. _ / ' | /><oo><\ Tim Mayo //[ `' ]\\

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Re: Cato forum tomorrow: should money laundering be a crime?
by Mix 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Steve Schear wrote: >This topic, of course, is near the top of many libertarian e-commerce >agendas. Almost every mainstream news article and regulatory report repeats >the littany that Money Laundering, that is the movement of money to disguise >it origin (even if there are no predicate offenses) must remain illegal >because it damages or is a threat to the world banking and financial system >(not just the tax take of governments), but I have yet to see any >explanation of how and why. Anyone care to comment? Might be a bit of a stretch, but I think this is because money today is inherently a liability, that is a debt that someone, somewhere has promised to pay back. Such is the nature of fractional reserve banking and debt-based currencies under which the international financial system functions. Thus if the origin of the money (the indebted party) is obscured, it becomes increasingly difficult to manage the quality of the world's money supply. After all, how can the issuer of the money collect on the debt that ultimately backs it when the issuer has no idea who to collect the debt from? Take away the ability to manage debt effectively and the issuer's money quickly becomes worthless (be it a commercial bank issuing deposit currency as a loan to its customers or a government's central bank issuing cash currency to its citizens based on a debt placed upon future generations of citizens). A money's value is measured by the quality of debt backing it. If the debt is defaulted on (whether through obscurity, Chapter 11, etcetera), the money loses value, which in turn can have negative systemic repercussions throughout the world's financial markets. The recent Asian currency devaluations (South Korea in particular) and the accompanying financial woes are a good example of what happens when the debt quality of money devalues. Nerthus - -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 mQGiBDR6Du8RBAD/Atm9StFSTuaNTOtM0wH+BsKQcU8sB6kykqiRsCdfeoPdI2cW TifPTIFFJuSRb9JCda6OQcafloXeAN9nbE+GweDQGk9qQ3egsukPXZ1QLaZhx8Y0 bbbs1EKyNMIpPK0JyFycC+ehKbOVNnB+LlcofROS6C2BqxV6jV2bTh4/OwCg/3RA +J+IBZKJ+t8SrkePekrr8VkD+gMrK6wghoYjPJjve4GFNtIclbltnaxPvNblt3Gn TS+AKXRXvRvtqlbh6nkOzJZCGgDl5S4Sl9ugQZm4Dnhv1wJJptw1VaNIvx4vJh5k 0Ehv0QqLyyJLM1qkb+qSm726fj7x2VMUDz1B2J8BZnRSeyX7Owv96l2hbfhsWOSL kTzsA/47BVqGxA5aQhvXSuD6OuvzAsSNZUUL2pnyYmCkX/DrGzG1BDgb9AdUPbql s138nr/yLjBXwbbZnrqVLLBn9mVfqQZL1HB9MgKFaCT8Pi2Q/EpyM5kN/sMkA/c/ nmk6JVHvPyCdLwJLA0r5iKHyPbZyPbc6C1FfXD9V92O3dhvCw7QjTmVydGh1cyA8 Y3lwaGVycHVua3NAY3liZXJwYXNzLm5ldD6JAEsEEBECAAsFAjR6Du8ECwMBAgAK CRAWtXd85uJ6jrcdAJ0bB92r7CriqXzXAmPC5ldE0VftWACgoiV33M0m6V3L0OsV CFPIMuVS3oaJARUDBRA0eg8e4VbBl7TmNwkBAQXECACjSwCnkSP9Dv06s0HMLvT9 DwjXryxvx+oMgO6CjHe5eHmLpyNDMTuhnZYByr/DU9iWAEvAYJncAl7/o7e8OcU/ vrzU2hAcjS9yaKN/Q1ltZAhg01hLhadlxvclaxuHVZ/TaO+ci5Ew1d7wzMPBWUyE jBDHVN4902pTBaPpGqBV3yGYg5I403L9+bB8qD1Od8ALr83ha/mF6MRYV4m0Qar+ GHs6wwH3Zi+gAQMUVkC1rvJKoGicHBL7Ky+NmdydCTi4IBpiIalsdOVAF6aNkRI6 q41hmNYevzmjsk4KWQdCi+FWKj1f+soxyGPK4/lkQk17EWpdYR63+GpU88ecmrBy uQENBDR6Dv0QBADYL1ossXAnUFX3NgVrEg4BvRr8wyhrRrddBKI9XE8vLNdHoci1 7Xtor82Fr3kyBTx/6jW2HIkuFe1PPaJqjoXfxMQc/e5xbG3Sc65VgxUqY369rc0X yPWXnkDgGaeLJfMP6YEFWqOwyGGSkySKaiQrZXJdPnudjAhB4Aq4W/ZC4QACAgP/ UmOxIbdm014V8jSZHDpMCvHX69xMcKxk6pofza4fM+NN6wZLrUA9+us6JKMxq3j/ tSBX4M/VwhmtXdn27lbrR4blwQM/u0jGgqk3qAwEXiv2TweYCpWtfuEjbmv9LKpC um/6Sh/KhlNGoyxm6eEOTG3hSH6rKiCTACbtuotDQhKJAD8DBRg0eg79FrV3fObi eo4RAqt/AJ9qf0ixg3olUg2kYJEbmHMVzx+6EwCcC91whsrTD2nsNdCUkzhc333R Aoo= =aekz - -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQA/AwUBNIiUkxa1d3zm4nqOEQLaYQCcDRU9qkloaPTshE3coevIIdDxlXQAnjVx fcCqzFIilN8K6KLj346uJkCP =0xDo -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: A Medal -- Or A Prison Cell?
by Tim May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 1:00 PM -0700 12/6/97, Brian B. Riley wrote: > Larry Gates, a 54-year-old ex-Marine, operates a convenience store in > rural Iconium, Missouri. He's also a volunteer fireman. Last Christmas > Eve he was listening to a licensed fire department radio when he heard > a report that police were chasing two suspected murderers. Police had > lost track of the suspects. From his knowledge of the area, Gates was > aware that the car would pass directly in front of his store. > Gates grabbed a shotgun and sidearm, and along with his three adult > sons pulled two vehicles into the intersection, blocking it. Both > vehicles had fire emergency lights flashing. > > A few seconds later the suspects' car approached the roadblock. Gates' > son Carey motioned for the car to stop. Instead, the car suddenly > accelerated directly at Carey. Gates fired his shotgun once at the > car. The car swerved away from his sons, went around the roadblock, > and continued down the road. Also, how did Gates and his sons know the car was in fact the suspect's car? I doubt they could read a license plate of an approaching car, if in fact the cops even knew the license plate number and had broadcast it. If it turns out that the Gates family merely set up their own roadblock and tried to stop a car matching the general description (e.g., "a late model white Ford sedan," which might well be the case for a police chase), then they were truly reckless. If I were driving my late model white Ford sedan through the backroads of rural Missouri and some potential rednecks up ahead had their vehicles blocking the road, I'd for damn sure not stop so they could rob and maybe kill me. I'd gun the accelerator and try to get around this roadblock. As they weren't cops and the vehicles weren't police cars, why should a driver be fool enough to stop for some rednecks blocking the road? (If this example is not clear, ask yourself if you would stop your car for some blacks in Miami who blocked the road with their vehicles....) This is precisely why we don't want helpful do-gooders setting up their own road blocks and firing shots at cars that don't stop. --Tim May (P.S. If it turns out the Gates family knew _with certainty_ that the approaching car was in fact exactly the one being chased, and if their vehicles were painted fire engine red (not typical for volunteer fire deparment folks and their private vehicles), then this slightly ameliorates the recklessness of their actions. But I'd be surprised if this is the case. And I know that if some rural yahoos tried to stop me by blocking the road, I'd shoot first and ask questions later, as *I* would be the party actually defending myself against a threat.) The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: A Medal -- Or A Prison Cell? (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 17:05:06 -0700 > From: Tim May <tcmay(a)got.net> > Subject: Re: A Medal -- Or A Prison Cell? > Also, how did Gates and his sons know the car was in fact the suspect's car? > > If it turns out that the Gates family merely set up their own roadblock > and tried to stop a car matching the general description (e.g., "a late > model white Ford sedan," which might well be the case for a police chase), > then they were truly reckless. > > As they weren't cops and the vehicles weren't police cars, why should a > driver be fool enough to stop for some rednecks blocking the road? > > (If this example is not clear, ask yourself if you would stop your car for > some blacks in Miami who blocked the road with their vehicles....) > > This is precisely why we don't want helpful do-gooders setting up their own > road blocks and firing shots at cars that don't stop. Since crypto-anarchy & free-market economic anarchy both do away with centralized authorities isn't this sort of behaviour what is *expected* of members of the community under these systems? Doesn't the fact that there is a clear and present danger to both person and community justify these sorts of actions? ____________________________________________________________________ | | | | | We built your fort. We will not have it used against us. | | | | John Wayne - Allegheny Uprising | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Re: Anonymous Thread
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Charlie Comsec wrote: >Monty Cantsin wrote: >> Something that I have found irritating about the posts by >> non-persistent identities is that it isn't possible to support a >> meaningful discussion as previous statements can always be >> repudiated, or maybe even weren't made by the particular poster. I >> compared this to sound bites. > >How is that fundamentally different from non-anonymous posts, though? >You can always disavow (or attempt to) a previous post by claiming it >was forged, that someone stole your password, hacked your account, or >posted it when you accidentally left your terminal logged on while >you were at lunch. All true. But, in the case of the anonymous post there has usually been no indication other than writing style and topic that suggests the poster is using the context of previous anonymous posts. There's no particular reason to think the second post has anything to do with the first. This means that the ideas cannot be developed to any great depth or detail. I would prefer to see anonymous posters include the messages which supply context or just give the message IDs. >In addition, there's nothing to stop someone from obtaining multiple e-mail >accounts. So why should ten anonymous posts be an more irritating than >ten posts from hotmail.com, juno.com, etc. accounts? They could be from ten >different people, just one, or any number in between. Actually, it's the context and the complexity of the text that interests me. If ten different people play the role of anonymous in one thread, each accepting the context of the previous posters, there is no reason why that isn't just as interesting as if it were one poster. >> On second thought, however, there is an easy way to solve this. If >> the anonymous poster accepts the context of previous messages, the >> discussion can continue. There's no reason why the person behind the >> virtual thread has to be the same, but the context itself is important >> if we want to have interesting discussions. > >Agreed. It's the ideas that are important, not the identity of the person[a] >expressing them. The only exception I can think of is if the person >expressing the ideas is asking that they be accepted because of some unique >qualification or expertise he claims to possess. And even then it never hurts to think carefully about why they should be trusted, how it is that they know what they claim to know, and if there are any ways to verify their claims. >> So, if you don't want to sign your messages, just acknowledge the >> message ID of the relevant previous messages whose context you wish to >> use. > >Unless that's coupled with a PGP signature, there's nothing to keep one >anonymous person from impersonating another and agreeing to something. >For example, if "A" is debating "B", there's nothing to stop "B" from >posting as "C", claiming to be an anonymous KKK, NAMBLA, etc. member, >then posting again, impersonating "A", and pretending to agree with "C" >(by, as you say, "acknowledging C's message id"). That's okay, though, because you deal with each post on its own merits one at a time. If person "C" says "This posts uses the remarks by the anonymous poster in posts 1, 2, 3,.. as context" then you can say, "You now say X, but before you said Y, and that's a contradiction." That person (or even another person) can come back and say something genuinely interesting like "It seems like a contradiction, but in fact it isn't for such-and-such a reason." In practice the way people have been doing this is just by signing their posts "TruthMonger" or something. But, message IDs give you more control over the accepted context. >Nor is it much better if "A", "B", and "C" are non-anonymous. "B" can open >a throwaway account as "C", and then forge a follow-up from "A". Unless >it's done among a group of people skilled at interpreting headers, it may >well succeed, or at least arouse a lot of F.U.D. about "A". Sabotaging a non-persistent identity through a remailer is effortless. Forging takes a little more effort. But, yes, I would like to see more people signing their messages. It would reduce some problems. Monty Cantsin Editor in Chief Smile Magazine http://www.neoism.org/squares/smile_index.html http://www.neoism.org/squares/cantsin_10.htm Subject: Re: Anonymous Thread To: cypherpunks(a)algebra.com 25BA1A9F5B9010DD8C752EDE887E9AF3 [Cantsin Protocol No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Mail Your Message to Millions
by KPeters8765＠mailexcite.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tired of NOT making money on the internet? Did you REALLY believe that ALL you had to do was: Put up a web page somewhere in Cyberspace with beautiful graphics, the latest Java and some frames; Advertise in a few free classifieds; Act like an expert in newsgroups; since you're not supposed to advertise in them; And, customers were going to beat a path to your door. If you believed that- BOY, have I got some swampland in Florida for you! If you want to make money on the internet, YOU'D better be PROACTIVE! YOU'D better go after business like you MEAN IT! YOU'D better send some E-MAIL - Lots of it! And YOU'D better tell your story as much as you can, as often as you can, to whomever you can! WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD. Bulk e-mail works! If you know how to write an ad, identify a need, and fullfill it with your product, you can make money on the Internet EVEN on a very limited budget. This form of advertising has been proven MUCH MORE EFFECTIVE than other forms of advertising because people read their e-mail. And, the message will wait in the recipient's e-mail box until it is read. Your message is SEEN not buried! Your business deserves a piece of the fastest growing industry in the U.S.- THE HOME-BASED BUSINESS INDUSTRY ( $427 billion in annual sales). Internet sales are projected to be over $10 billion by the year 2000, up from $300 million in 1994. We've got the addresses YOU need. A Web site alone, posting through newsgroups and registering with a few search engines while placing a few classifieds just won't work. What good is a Web page no one knows is there? Bulk e-mailing is the lowest-cost method of generating qualified sales leads, On average, a solo direct (snail) mail promotion would cost around $500.00 per thousand, whereas bulk e-mail costs pennies per thousand. No known form of media advertising can compete with the low cost of bulk e-mail. Our e-mail lists are maintained on state-of-the-art computers and are updated daily to assure you the very latest names for your mailings. Bulk Email Works!! Put your sales message in front of responsive buyers. Our lists are compiled from active and willing on-line purchasers and entrepreneurs. THESE ARE SERIOUS CUSTOMERS LOOKING FOR SERIOUS OFFERS! These BUYERS want to read and hear more about your products/services. Our list is updated daily with fresh and new email addresses. Even if you receive 1/10 of 1% response for mailing 1,000,000 email addresses you would receive 1000 replies !!!! How much money would you make? Save TIME and MONEY! Make money on the seat of your Pants! Focus entirely on your sales. 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One for the Good Guys
by William H. Geiger III 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Well McAffe has reluctantly pulled out of KRAP. http://www.pgp.com/newsroom/na-kra.cgi - From the wording of the press release they still are unwilling to admit the error of their ways but at least they have realized the fallout from being associated with such an orginization. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNIor7o9Co1n+aLhhAQL5lAP+KcogSdFYFLqczIOAiAIaXM0xhPz488VP 9/M2i3JrYq4kxg2gl4TKCIineHewGzKuEutA4xhiP5ITIlRIQ3HWPldURpi1j8RR Qil7AczrynhAvR3SY4/kyWxkLtczLlD+DedXciamAxmvD0jp0QSkez5RqzuEVCMg nJgWK1RzXmY= =MjpK -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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16 Million! Just Released!
by rapnet＠ix.netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

IT WAS JUST RELEASED!! INTRODUCING...MILLIONS VOL. 1 We took a total of over 92 million email addresses from many of the touted CD's that are out there (bought them all - some were $300+)! We added the millions we had in storage to those. When we combined them all, we had in excess of 100+ million addresses in one huge file. We then ran a super "sort/de-dupe" program against this huge list. It cut the file down to less than 25 million!!! Can you believe that? It seems that most people that are selling CD's are duping the public by putting numerous files of addresses in the CD over and over. This created many duplicate addresses. They also had many program "generated" email addresses like Compuserve, MCI, ANON's, etc. This causes a tremendous amount of undeliverables, and for those that use Stealth programs, clogs up servers quickly with trash, etc. We then ran a program that contained 150+ keywords to remove addresses with vulgarity, profanity, sex-related names, postmaster, webmaster, flamer, abuse, spam, etc., etc. Also eliminated all .edu, .mil, .org, .gov, etc. After that list was run against the remaining list, it reduced it down to near 16 million addresses! So, you see, our list will save people hundreds of dollars buying all others that are out there on CD and otherwise. Using ours will be like using the 100+ million that we started with, but a lot less money and alot less time!! We also purchased Cyber-Promos ($995.00) CD. We received it just prior to finishing production work on the new CD. We had our people take a random sample of 300,000 addresses from the touted 2.9 that they advertised. We used a program that allows us to take a random sample of addresses from any list. We were able to have the program take every 9th address, thus giving us a 300,000 list of Cyber's email addresses from top to bottom. We did not clean these, but we did create 3 seperate files named cyber1.txt, cyber2.txt, & cyber3.txt of 100,000 addresses each. This will give all people that use the list a opportunity to send mail to the list before deciding if their CD is all it's hyped to be. We also included a 2+ million "Remove/Flamer" file broke into seperate files for ease of extracting and adding to your own database of removes. "You can buy from the REST or you can buy from the BEST. Your choice. _____________________________ What others are saying: "I received the CD on Friday evening. Like a kid with a new toy, I immediately started bulking out using the new email addresses. Over the course of the weekend, I emailed out over 500,000 emails and I received less than TWENTY undeliverables!! I am totally satisfied with my purchase!! Thanks Premier!!" Dave Buckley Houston, TX "This list is worth it's weight in gold!! I sent out 100,000 emails for my product and received over 55 orders! Ann Colby New Orleans, LA **************************************** HERE'S THE BOTTOM LINE Here is what you get when you order today! >> 16 Million Email Addresses... 1 per line in simple text format on a CD. Files are in lots of 100,000 (no codes needed to open files). All files are separated by domain name for your convenience. PLUS you receive a tremendous REMOVE list! AND the a sampling of CyberPromo's HOT list. >>> NOW ONLY $149.00! This price is effective for the next seven days, thereafter the price will be $199.00 so ORDER NOW! All lists are completely free of any Duplicates. We also on a continual basis, add New Names and Remove Undeliverables and Remove Requests. The result is the Cleanest Email Addresses Available Anywhere to use over and over again, for a FRACTION of the cost that other companies charge. Typical rates for acquiring email lists are from 1 cent to as high as 3 cents per email address - that's "INFORMATION HIGHWAY" ROBBERY!. Don't even hesitate on this one or you will miss out on the most effective way to market anywhere..PERIOD! If you have any further questions or to place an order by phone, please do not hesitate to call us at: 908-245-1143 To order our email package, simply print out the EZ ORDER FORM below and fax or mail it to our office today. We accept Visa, Mastercard, AMEX, Checks by Fax and Mail. _________________ EZ Order Form _____Yes! I would like to order MILLIONS Vol. 1 email addresses for only $149.00. *Please select one of the following for shipping.. ____I would like to receive my package OVERNIGHT. I'm including $15 for shipping. (outside US add an additional $25 for shipping) ____I would like to receive my package 2 DAY delivery. I'm including $10 for shipping. (outside US add an additional $25 for shipping) DATE_____________________________________________________ NAME____________________________________________________ COMPANY NAME___________________________________________ ADDRESS_________________________________________________ CITY, STATE, ZIP___________________________________________ PHONE NUMBERS__________________________________________ FAX NUMBERS_____________________________________________ EMAIL ADDRESS___________________________________________ TYPE OF CREDIT CARD: ______VISA _____MASTERCARD CREDIT CARD# __________________________________________ EXPIRATION DATE________________________________________ NAME ON CARD___________________________________________ AMOUNT $____________________ (Required) SIGNATURE:x________________________ DATE:x__________________ You may fax your order to us at: 1-615-431-7058 CHECK BY FAX SERVICES! If you would like to fax a check, paste your check below and fax it to our office along with all forms to: 1-615-431-7058 ****************************************************** ***24 HOUR FAX SERVICES*** PLEASE PASTE YOUR CHECK HERE AND FAX IT TO US AT 1-908-245-3119 ******************************************************* If You fax a check, there is no need for you to send the original check. We will draft up a new check, with the exact information from your original check. All checks will be held for bank clearance. If you feel more comfortable sending payment through the mail, please send all forms and Check or Money Order to: Rapture Narketing Inc. P.O. Box 616 Kenilworth, NJ 07033

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New key
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Some readers have suggested that my El Gamal key values were not chosen correctly. My previous key used a random large prime, but Schneier suggests choosing one with a guaranteed large prime factor ("Applied Cryptography", section 11.6). To correct that I offer a new El Gamal key which I will use for signing: p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g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y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his prime value has been chosen so that (p-1)/2 will also be prime. I will continue to use Cantsin Protocol No. 2 as before. It's good to see that others are beginning to develop tools to use this protocol. Suggestions for improvements continue to be welcomed. Monty Cantsin Editor in Chief Smile Magazine http://www.neoism.org/squares/smile_index.html http://www.neoism.org/squares/cantsin_10.htm Subject: New key To: cypherpunks(a)algebra.com 25BA1A9F5B9010DD8C752EDE887E9AF3 [Cantsin Protocol No. 2] 092AA1EC9926D468F8964B8EF537DDC1782A1281 8AB1C2AA1D6FC353C642984072C97D7DF6061C96 -907 907 CA9BF59CF4C8EDAA447F88F320443E47170C45F5972EC6118BA55904D71B6738E941A1F02AFD1142D29B08E9E6B7B52CE911C7E7873AB1B2429279F696DA273AD08CA934F035952346CAFC2087C581DD9075EF80F62A5F477CDE8083719057BDC0CEAAD8E76189CAB5B9E5CEA5F7FA7923EF4F8DAAA8A6A6EF13B26F56C0A64D4A894A0C4BCBD2F2C93C4C8626C2D74A2832271689EC60E4024FC1547D3CFAF78D4651DA1A203DB5F1E99E83DC381430FA6A55433EAF1031E512842FC98030D2902326C4ABD63FC598FA7E62D34C6F0D7FAD946C26E420049567147C262CD28C97AACF939588473F6CB88EEA5518EA663DD2CDEC83C869674CBF2B0078E89414 AEA9FE2E3EAD44D84F927B5A423AB9620FB76FA4390D92A1CF371D42200E45BCC629941485C5499CDE309C80E0F95EC54054963E90F605AE67CCDA415244E61A654DC319ACFB734A895E3C2B7BC30D6321FA8274E41B2B0E5B7D5CD3DD9F5C09256F8E2E2AD7698EC824F6512D6DD7E9176DDA06FE9158D8499F637D8FA61FE32E842305C5BD6043E5FCFA6FE642343B49A97568221B5EB8E51A3929D5AB95B3C270A1977A5290CD458716C56C356395267D6293E9256678216F65F7DDBA75CE01CEA1C7FE7AC58AAF6D392B68C06407EA989948D64391EF25D28F27BFB345406501F2A69EE007D13DD541145ED03542DAB58954ACE1AD2C3DF7E1FD00B9CD10

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No Subject
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> Since crypto-anarchy & free-market economic anarchy both do away with > centralized authorities isn't this sort of behaviour what is *expected* of > members of the community under these systems? Doesn't the fact that there is > a clear and present danger to both person and community justify these sorts > of actions? > The concept of "Free-Market-Crypto-Anarchy" doesn't jibe with the "Lynch-Mob Democracy" mentality exhibited by Gates. One of the fundamental principles of anarchy is a willingness to let others hash out their own problems, i.e. I will ignore him unless his actions impact or affect me personally/financially. It is not as if the Gates were going to be affected by the "suspects"...they had to go out of their way to interfere with someone else's pursuit of happiness. That is clearly unacceptable. The last thing we need is a deputized citizenry...talk about a police state. (I guess that would be the ultimate form of the "Policeman Inside")

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XXX LIVE SEX
by rozaa＠oulu.fi 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Victoria's Secret Passage to XXX SEX!!! *Free Live Video!!! No cost no memberships!!! Just free!! *Erotic Stories *XXX LIve SEX SHOWS!!! *1000's Free Pics!!! *Personal Dating Services! *Adult Videos *Cd-Rom *Men's Pics *Chatrooms *Message Boards And Lots More!!! http://host3495.homecom.com AOL Click Here! You must be 21 or older. If you would like to be removed contact us at: xstacy@hotma

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Re: Singapore
by Secret Squirrel 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>Mr. Frissell asserts that Germany lacks rights >such as freedom of speech and >association. >This is not true. >The German Basic Law provides for everyone the right to freedom of speech, >religion and association. >However, Germany prohibits hate speech i.e. National Socialism and >incitement to racial, religious and national hatred. >The reason for this exception is the German history. And thus there is no true freedom of speech and such in Germany. I can either say "Fuck the Jews" or I can't. I can either say "Bill Gates can blow me" or I can't. I can either post naked pictures of myself or I can't. (And yes, this means that there is no true freedom of speech and such in the United States either.) Nice try.

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No Subject
by Secret Squirrel 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I think Vulis needs each of us to send ten copies of this back to him. >Tim Mayo's abysmal grammar, atrocious spelling and >feeble responses clearly identify him as a product of >the American education system. > _ > / ' > | > /><oo><\ Tim Mayo > //[ `' ]\\

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Re: It's Sunday...
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----Begin Forward Message----- From: Linda Reed <lreed(a)igate.iscg.pima.gov> Organization: pima county Hi, CJ -- Thanx for cheering me up on a MONday mornin' -- and for your bits of worldly wisdom. Every once in a while, in between the gross sexual/political bashings and overstatement of the not-so-obvious, I can glean some truthful observation on the world at large--something to at least spark my brain (which it badly needs today). Thanx for the warning. People DO ask about you from time-to-time, especially Bob & Kid Squidd--who both seem to be doing OK--and others, who breathe a sigh of relief when I tell them you're still out of the country ;) I have one more month of probation at my new job with the county--the thing is they want me to come in every day--and at the right time! Still struggling with that part--in the mean time getting all their programs and screens to hold onto a 4-digit year in preparation for the Year-2000. I've talked to several people who are making lots of money convincing everyone to pay them to revamp for the inevitability of the century change--who also plan to retire some time before it hits (and remain out-of-touch in case the revamping fails for any reason). I'm having T-shirts made for LL & the Driffters for Xmas--special green & red colors--shall I mail you one? to what address? We're still driffting around--looks like I'll have to actually pay for studio time and an engineer early in the year to get a recording done--want to come sing in background on "It's A Long Way to My Heart"? Here's wishing you a Merry one from a girl who's been both naughty and nice -- Linda Lou ;) -----End Forward Message-----

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Red-necks w/ a purpose...
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 03:54:05 -0500 > From: Anonymous <anon(a)anon.efga.org> Why does your remailer strip the subject header? > > Since crypto-anarchy & free-market economic anarchy both do away with > > centralized authorities isn't this sort of behaviour what is *expected* of > > members of the community under these systems? Doesn't the fact that there is > > a clear and present danger to both person and community justify these sorts > > of actions? > > > > The concept of "Free-Market-Crypto-Anarchy" doesn't jibe with the > "Lynch-Mob Democracy" mentality exhibited by Gates. What has this to do with a couple of rednecks stopping an alleged criminal out of the goodness of their hearts? Further, what exactly are you talking about in reference to Gates? Yes, he is rich but what specificaly are you referning to in regards to his mentality and lynch-mob democracies? All government or social systems resort to lynch-mod mentatility without some sort of bill of rights or other explicit restrainer on the system. Even free-market-crypto-anarchy will devolve to this. Why do supports of free-market-crypto-anarchy ignore issues regarding excesses of their beloved systems and what kinds of checks-and-balances need to be implimented to resolve those issues? Are you really going to claim that under free-market-crypto-anarchy we have finaly found angels in the forms of men? Is your claim that had there been a free-market-cryto-anarchy these people would not have committed the crime in the first place and hence the police and the rednecks could have stayed home? Is free-market-crypto-anarchy the final solution in human conflict resolution? > One of the > fundamental principles of anarchy is a willingness to let others hash > out their own problems, i.e. I will ignore him unless his actions > impact or affect me personally/financially. This is a tenet of democracy as well. However, am I to interpret your statement to mean that no, these rednecks were out of line? If so, my question still stands. With no centralized authority of any sort and by extension no centralized police force whose job is it to stop criminals? Under a free-market-crypto-anarchy exactly how does the peace-keeping process work? > It is not as if the Gates were going to be affected by the > "suspects"...they had to go out of their way to interfere with someone > else's pursuit of happiness. That is clearly unacceptable. The last > thing we need is a deputized citizenry...talk about a police state. > (I guess that would be the ultimate form of the "Policeman Inside") If there were no police force I am sure Gates with all his money would be on the top of a lot of hit lists - just too juicy a target to pass up. The police we have now are deputized citizens. *That* happens to be one of the safety checks. What is your point? ____________________________________________________________________ | | | | | We built your fort. We will not have it used against us. | | | | John Wayne - Allegheny Uprising | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

2 1

Re: Cato forum tomorrow: should money laundering be a crime?
by Mix 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Steve Schear wrote: >This topic, of course, is near the top of many libertarian e-commerce >agendas. Almost every mainstream news article and regulatory report repeats >the littany that Money Laundering, that is the movement of money to disguise >it origin (even if there are no predicate offenses) must remain illegal >because it damages or is a threat to the world banking and financial system >(not just the tax take of governments), but I have yet to see any >explanation of how and why. Anyone care to comment? Might be a bit of a stretch, but I think this is because money today is inherently a liability, that is a debt that someone, somewhere has promised to pay back. Such is the nature of fractional reserve banking and debt-based currencies under which the international financial system functions. Thus if the origin of the money (the indebted party) is obscured, it becomes increasingly difficult to manage the quality of the world's money supply. After all, how can the issuer of the money collect on the debt that ultimately backs it when the issuer has no idea who to collect the debt from? Take away the ability to manage debt effectively and the issuer's money quickly becomes worthless (be it a commercial bank issuing deposit currency as a loan to its customers or a government's central bank issuing cash currency to its citizens based on a debt placed upon future generations of citizens). A money's value is measured by the quality of debt backing it. If the debt is defaulted on (whether through obscurity, Chapter 11, etcetera), the money loses value, which in turn can have negative systemic repercussions throughout the world's financial markets. The recent Asian currency devaluations (South Korea in particular) and the accompanying financial woes are a good example of what happens when the debt quality of money devalues. Nerthus - -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 mQGiBDR6Du8RBAD/Atm9StFSTuaNTOtM0wH+BsKQcU8sB6kykqiRsCdfeoPdI2cW TifPTIFFJuSRb9JCda6OQcafloXeAN9nbE+GweDQGk9qQ3egsukPXZ1QLaZhx8Y0 bbbs1EKyNMIpPK0JyFycC+ehKbOVNnB+LlcofROS6C2BqxV6jV2bTh4/OwCg/3RA +J+IBZKJ+t8SrkePekrr8VkD+gMrK6wghoYjPJjve4GFNtIclbltnaxPvNblt3Gn TS+AKXRXvRvtqlbh6nkOzJZCGgDl5S4Sl9ugQZm4Dnhv1wJJptw1VaNIvx4vJh5k 0Ehv0QqLyyJLM1qkb+qSm726fj7x2VMUDz1B2J8BZnRSeyX7Owv96l2hbfhsWOSL kTzsA/47BVqGxA5aQhvXSuD6OuvzAsSNZUUL2pnyYmCkX/DrGzG1BDgb9AdUPbql s138nr/yLjBXwbbZnrqVLLBn9mVfqQZL1HB9MgKFaCT8Pi2Q/EpyM5kN/sMkA/c/ nmk6JVHvPyCdLwJLA0r5iKHyPbZyPbc6C1FfXD9V92O3dhvCw7QjTmVydGh1cyA8 Y3lwaGVycHVua3NAY3liZXJwYXNzLm5ldD6JAEsEEBECAAsFAjR6Du8ECwMBAgAK CRAWtXd85uJ6jrcdAJ0bB92r7CriqXzXAmPC5ldE0VftWACgoiV33M0m6V3L0OsV CFPIMuVS3oaJARUDBRA0eg8e4VbBl7TmNwkBAQXECACjSwCnkSP9Dv06s0HMLvT9 DwjXryxvx+oMgO6CjHe5eHmLpyNDMTuhnZYByr/DU9iWAEvAYJncAl7/o7e8OcU/ vrzU2hAcjS9yaKN/Q1ltZAhg01hLhadlxvclaxuHVZ/TaO+ci5Ew1d7wzMPBWUyE jBDHVN4902pTBaPpGqBV3yGYg5I403L9+bB8qD1Od8ALr83ha/mF6MRYV4m0Qar+ GHs6wwH3Zi+gAQMUVkC1rvJKoGicHBL7Ky+NmdydCTi4IBpiIalsdOVAF6aNkRI6 q41hmNYevzmjsk4KWQdCi+FWKj1f+soxyGPK4/lkQk17EWpdYR63+GpU88ecmrBy uQENBDR6Dv0QBADYL1ossXAnUFX3NgVrEg4BvRr8wyhrRrddBKI9XE8vLNdHoci1 7Xtor82Fr3kyBTx/6jW2HIkuFe1PPaJqjoXfxMQc/e5xbG3Sc65VgxUqY369rc0X yPWXnkDgGaeLJfMP6YEFWqOwyGGSkySKaiQrZXJdPnudjAhB4Aq4W/ZC4QACAgP/ UmOxIbdm014V8jSZHDpMCvHX69xMcKxk6pofza4fM+NN6wZLrUA9+us6JKMxq3j/ tSBX4M/VwhmtXdn27lbrR4blwQM/u0jGgqk3qAwEXiv2TweYCpWtfuEjbmv9LKpC um/6Sh/KhlNGoyxm6eEOTG3hSH6rKiCTACbtuotDQhKJAD8DBRg0eg79FrV3fObi eo4RAqt/AJ9qf0ixg3olUg2kYJEbmHMVzx+6EwCcC91whsrTD2nsNdCUkzhc333R Aoo= =aekz - -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQA/AwUBNIiUkxa1d3zm4nqOEQLaYQCcDRU9qkloaPTshE3coevIIdDxlXQAnjVx fcCqzFIilN8K6KLj346uJkCP =0xDo -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Pamela Anderson : EXCLUSIVE !
by Scoop＠www.kornet.nm.kr 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

<HTML><PRE><BODY BGCOLOR="#000000"><FONT COLOR="#00FFFF" SIZE=3> PAMELA ANDERSON & TOMMY LEE HAVING SEX !!! Sexuality explicit video & screenshots ! This is NOT simulated sex This is NOT Playboy "best of" video This is REAL deal, raw and uncensored ! Go to http://151.196.201.51/pamela.html IF YOU WANT YOUR NAME REMOVED FROM THIS LIST, reply to : removelist(a)mlweb.com </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3>

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Complete package for Cantsin Protocol No. 2
by Steffen Zahn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hello, I have put together a package for Cantsin 2 Signatures, to generate the keys, sign documents and check signatures. Prerequisites are: perl Version 5 libgmp Version 2.* a C compiler currently /dev/random for generation of keys and signatures precompiled binaries are provided for Linux-ELF (libc-5.*), if you have that you don't need libgmp. Pick it up from http://www.snafu.de/~zahn/cantsin.tar.gz (70 KByte) Regards Steffen (p,g,y,name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teffen Zahn (Key1) -- home email: user@domain where domain=berlin.snafu.de, user=zahn Use of my address for unsolicited commercial advertising is forbidden. "Where do you want to crash today?" 25BA1A9F5B9010DD8C752EDE887E9AF3 [Cantsin Protocol No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