December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: (fwd) DES challenge organisation
by Mark Newton 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timothy C. May wrote: > The organizer of the coordinated search must then, I surmise, keep the > assignments secret and dole out keyspace securely. Perhaps they should DES-encrypt the list of assignments :-) - mark -------------------------------------------------------------------- I tried an internal modem, newton(a)dotat.org but it hurt when I walked. Mark Newton ----- Voice: +61-4-1155-2401 ------------- Fax: +61-8-83732527 -----

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Re: More on digital postage
by omegam＠cmq.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Peter J. Capelli writes: > I pay for my phone service; I assume you pay a flat rate and not by the incoming fax! > I pay for my fax, toner, and > paper. If they use my property without getting permission first, So, if a person uses a computer fax-modem and, therefore, paper, toner, etc. aren't used, does this change the situation? Suddenly we're very close to the situation of junk-email. (Except that the sender of the junk fax incurs long-distance charges, if there are any, not to mention he pays for the phone service the same as you do) > I believe > that *is* ( or should be ) illegal. "There should be a law!" 5 of the ugliest words in the English language when put together. Look. I understand your sentiment and junk faxes piss me off as well, but the cost of government regulation is too high in my opinion. As I'm sure you're aware, government does a *great* job of creating sensible and useful regulations. Unfortunately, fax machines can't distinguish the text of messages, so you can't do filtering or bounce messages, etc. (Although I have been known to send a nasty reply fax or two. And I never fail to call the send of the fax to complain and have the junk faxes terminated) > Your argument that my plugging a fax > machine itno a phone line I know it will answer, even if it is unauthorized, > is tantamount to saying that if I leave my keys in my car, anyone can take > it, and legally so! While it may be foolish to do that, being > foolish is not > a crime You purchased the fax equipment. Why should the government regulate its usage for you? Ideally, the manufacture of fax machines which are able to authenticate a sender in some manner before permitting the actually permitting transmission of the fax out to paper would likely eliminate junk faxes. Of course, this would involve strong encryption. And -- wouldn't you know it! -- that's covered by a range of confusing and threatening federal regulations -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Omegaman <mailto:omegam@cmq.com>|"When they kick out your front door, PGP Key fingerprint = | How are you gonna come? 6D 31 C3 00 77 8C D1 C2 | With your hands upon your head, 59 0A 01 E3 AF 81 94 63 | Or on the trigger of your gun?" Send email with "get key" as the| -- The Clash, "Guns of Brixton" "Subject:" to get my public key | _London_Calling_ , 1979 ---------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: Moderation experiment almost over; "put up or shut up"
by Cynthia H. Brown 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Sat, 15 Feb 1997 paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk wrote: <earlier discussion excised> > Not my point, I didn`t say I would refuse, as in my example, to have > my car serviced by a woman, rather, that I would not feel comfortable > doing so. This is not prejudice, it is a statistical judgement based > on the fact that, as a percentage, I know few women who are competent > car mechanics but I know a number of men who, by the same criteria, I > would call competent. Acknowledged, agree to disagree :-). (Very few of my male friends can do more than sew on a button, but that doesn't weight my choice of a *professional* tailor.) It did, however, sound like you were agreeing with the previous poster's (more extreme) position. > Very much so, I did not intend, even though my post may have appeared > that way, for one minute to suggest that women were *unable* to carry > out certain tasks, just that they seem less suited to certain > vocations that others. For example, I know a number of good female > History or English students but very few good female mathematics > or computer science students. This is not, I believe, because women are > not "suited" to computer science rather that they have never been encouraged > at high school etc. to learn about such subjects which are seen as male preserves. > I wholeheartedly believe this should not be the case, and my original > post may have been misleading, I just believe that in the current > system very few women do become good at science/technical subjects. Agreed (sadly) that there is a dearth of role models like Mme. Curie or Roberta Bondar. There is also an unfortunate "geek stigma" often attached to those who are good at math or science (male or female). Whether this stigma discourages more girls than boys is questionable (psychology thesis, anyone?), but it has probably resulted in good-math-potential brains taking economics (or whatever) instead. Fewer competitors for the 56-bit prize, but also fewer brains thinking up better PRNGs. Cynthia =============================================================== Cynthia H. Brown, P.Eng. E-mail: cynthb(a)iosphere.net | PGP Key: See Home Page Home Page: http://www.iosphere.net/~cynthb/ Junk mail will be ignored in the order in which it is received. Klein bottle for rent; enquire within.

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Re: Keep it Simple and the Cypherpunk Way
by Attila T. Hun 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- on or about 970215:1003 Dale Thorn <dthorn(a)gte.net> said: +Vladimir Z. Nuri <vznuri(a)netcom.com> said: +> timmy, cpunks, etc. you are getting a lesson in REALITY. you are seeing +> the logical conclusion of your views playing out before you. acrimony, +> bitterness, resignation, chaos, confusion, cacaphony, anarchy. +Perhaps you should turn your talents to writing country songs. and if I play it backwards I get my dawg, my truck, and my gittar back. ___________________________________________________________attila_____ "Explain to me, slowly and carefully, why if person A, when screwed over on a deal by B; is morally obligated to consult, pay, and defer to, person C for the purpose of seeing justice done; and why person C has any legitimate gripe, if A just hauls off and smacks B around like a dead carp." ___________________________________________________________attila_____ "attila" 1024/C20B6905/23 D0 FA 7F 6A 8F 60 66 BC AF AE 56 98 C0 D7 B0 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: latin1 Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be iQCVAwUBMwaj+b04kQrCC2kFAQH0oAQA3pueKSWg2Fqvb6h3psP67rF18N/kwaMP nD6LE7DgzNYVTYwwKjk/eT8/i2kdSEAS8MqkmVc7KwZqsHWl4Ttj23A1GaTHzobL IWwfRAR6BJfcjyvQSzkG/Pq4R7FYvyLoSAqwsYLvlWvC35kiYwwjll9/zprLQbWq RHlrPaY54EU= =I9gB -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: More on digital postage
by Cynthia H. Brown 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Sat, 15 Feb 1997 Dale Thorn wrote: > jim bell wrote: > > > But having an address, and a walkway, and a doorbell is generally considered > > if not explicit permission, but at least toleration of the idea that > > somebody can walk up and knock on the door, etc. Having a telephone with a > > number that anyone can dial is going to result in some level of intrusion. > > Having a fax machine is a similar issue, unless technology provides a way to > > block unwanted faxes. > > There are some neato methods to deal with the door and the phone, > but I haven't investigated faxes since I don't run one at home. Boring but it works: There are plenty of fax-to-PC programs out there. Anyone can save *lots* of trees by viewing faxes on the screen before printing the useful page(s). Yes, I know, this means human intervention, but so does crumpling up the ***BUY NOW*** garbage, tossing it at the recycle bin, missing, cursing, etc. Here in Canada, the CRTC (Canadian Radio & Telecomms Commission) put out rules limiting the time of day, etc. for phone spam (voice or fax). Does anyone out there have the specifics of the CRTC regs? Cynthia =============================================================== Cynthia H. Brown, P.Eng. E-mail: cynthb(a)iosphere.net | PGP Key: See Home Page Home Page: http://www.iosphere.net/~cynthb/ Junk mail will be ignored in the order in which it is received. Klein bottle for rent; enquire within.

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Crypto code published in magazines
by Peter Gutmann 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I'm trying to find instances of crypto code published in computer magazines in the last few years. I know of Blowfish in DDJ, are there cases of more mainstream computer mags like Byte publishing crypto code (I know Byte did DES in 1977, I'm hoping for something a bit more recent)?. Please mail or cc replies directly to me, nntp.hks.net seems to have died :-(. Peter.

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Re: Where is the reorg FAQ?
by Mike Duvos 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Anil Das writes: > Btw, one of our many news servers has alt.cypherpunks, but it has very > low traffic. I doubt people are not posting. Must be alt.cypherpunks > missing from some upstream sites. To spam propagation islands, it might be a good idea to crosspost to alt.privacy when posting to alt.cypherpunks. It will probably take a week or two before everyone who is going to create the group on their news server gets around to it. -- Mike Duvos $ PGP 2.6 Public Key available $ mpd(a)netcom.com $ via Finger. $

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Dale: What a laff!
by nobody＠huge.cajones.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 18:42:11 -0800 From: Dale Thorn <dthorn(a)gte.net> Dale sagely wrote: :Wine and cheese are the key. You hit that one on the head. I tried :those Mensa parties in Beverly Hills a few times. Oh what a kidder this Dale is. At Mensa party no less!! Whatta farce! Still love you fella.

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(no subject)
by zac 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

UNSUBCRIBE CYPHERPUNKS lspeiel(a)lightspeed.net

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Spam, Spam, Digital Postage, and Spam
by Eric Cordian 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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MagicMoney
by hjk 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I finally got a copy of MagicMoney (from ftp://utopia.hacktic.nl). It is just the code (compiling without error), but there is no README or documentation at all.Can someone give me a hint,what to do with this package? Is there a documentation somesite? BTW utopia is the site,you can get all the export restricted stuff outside the US. Heinz-Juergen Keller email: hjk(a)ddorf.rhein-ruhr.de

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alt.cypherpunks.* groups make primenet.com
by Carol Anne Cypherpunk 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Primenet.com has picked up the alt.cypherpunk feed. And, there was spam (yum, yum) on it already. Carol Anne Cypherpunk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Uncensored from heavily.censored.org iQCVAwUBMwbyForpjEWs1wBlAQEOYQP/bU7uRm5YIMgSkH9QoRLm1UzUCcJ8kxoY okFp6cshYvn5zZf4Kp8z9eWh67ox8yN/Lsp8DzFRkS9xrmobX/5givMut304rN5+ p213AzjaEOhfaat5w4AWUPU1xAIkTnI0jqN4vslKQ0Y77fyrzRgwtCCvsw2VzCfv hPSSApmGuys= =mlts -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Member Internet Society - Certified BETSI Programmer - Webmistress *********************************************************************** Carol Anne Braddock (cab8) carolann(a)censored.org 206.42.112.96 My Homepage The Cyberdoc ***********************************************************************

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Re:
by paul＠fatmans.demon.co.uk 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> > PS. His sexist comments are rubbish too. I usually like his crypto posts, > > however, as long as they are technical rather than legal... > > Paul's sexist comments are very interesting - I hope to find more time to > comment on them too. I don't know if they have the same kind of "affirmative > action" in the U.K. that they have in the U.S. - here if you find a woman > in the position of authority, there's a good chance that she was promoted > ahead of more qualified men to meet some quota, and is therefore incompetent. We do not have such laws as far as I`m aware (I try to know as little as possible about law and finance/econimics as I find them intensely boring, even if they are necessary knowledge as a proponent of freedom of action and speech) but in my experience a number of employers promote women ahead of men in order to avoid costly industrial tribunals brought for discrimination. I also believe for the same reasons a lot of known homosexuals, blacks, <insert minority group of choice here> are promoted ahead of more qualified white, straight males. Datacomms Technologies web authoring and data security Paul Bradley, Paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk Paul(a)crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul(a)cryptography.uk.eu.org Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/ Email for PGP public key, ID: 5BBFAEB1 "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"

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(no subject)
by zac 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

UNSUBCRIBE CYPHERPUNKS lspeiel(a)lightspeed.net

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Spam, Spam, Digital Postage, and Spam
by Eric Cordian 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Re: More on digital postage
by Timothy C. May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 1:09 AM -0500 2/16/97, Cynthia H. Brown wrote: >Here in Canada, the CRTC (Canadian Radio & Telecomms Commission) put >out rules limiting the time of day, etc. for phone spam (voice or >fax). Does anyone out there have the specifics of the CRTC regs? "Spam" has rapidly become one of those overused, overloaded, meaningless words. Everything bad on the Net these days is labelled "spam." For the phone example in Canada, just what is "spam"? -- Is it the semi-traditional definition of "spam," i.e., a phone call made to thousands of sites? (At the same time? Sequentially? How?) -- Is it a robo-dialer, with no human at the other end? -- Or is it merely an "unwanted phone call"? As I see it, the danger of criminalizing "unwanted phone calls" is obvious. (Though obviously the courts and prisons are not about to be filled up with people who committed the heinous crime of making an unrequested phone call.) The danger of all "junk mail" and "junk phone call" laws is that they give power to the government to decide on what is junk and what is not. Not something we should support. --Tim May Just say "No" to "Big Brother Inside" We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: More on digital postage
by Eric Cordian 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timothy C. May writes: > "Spam" has rapidly become one of those overused, overloaded, > meaningless words. Everything bad on the Net these days is labelled > "spam." The term "spam" has its origins in the well-known Monty Python Viking sketch, where a diner has breakfast menu offerings such as Spam, spam, spam, spam, eggs, and spam. This sequence of one repeated thing, with an occasional something else, reminds us of how our news spool looks after spam has happened. > For the phone example in Canada, just what is "spam"? > -- Is it the semi-traditional definition of "spam," i.e., a phone call made > to thousands of sites? (At the same time? Sequentially? How?) > -- Is it a robo-dialer, with no human at the other end? Calling one person a thousand times is certainly spam. Calling a thousand different people is probably "Excessive Multiple Calling", or some such acronym. > -- Or is it merely an "unwanted phone call"? This is definitely not spam. > As I see it, the danger of criminalizing "unwanted phone calls" is obvious. > (Though obviously the courts and prisons are not about to be filled up with > people who committed the heinous crime of making an unrequested phone call.) If someone is calling me every day, and I ask them nicely to stop, continued calling should be illegal harrassment. If I've never heard from them before, then a couple unwanted calls aren't a big deal. The same principle should apply if someone decides they have a Constitutional right to bang on my front door at 6 am each and every morning. > The danger of all "junk mail" and "junk phone call" laws is that they give > power to the government to decide on what is junk and what is not. > Not something we should support. I wouldn't mind laws against "repeated unwanted communication." That way I decide what is and is not junk, and the perpetrator is on notice that further waste of my time, fax paper, phone line, or mailbox space will not be viewed benevolently. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"

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[STEGO] Degausser
by lucifer＠dhp.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Embedded in Tim C. May's babblings are preposterous lies, wild distortions, child pornography (both as graphic descriptions and in JPEG format), ethnic slurs, and racial epithets. _ / ' | /><oo><\ Tim C. May //[ `' ]\\

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MagicMoney
by hjk 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I finally got a copy of MagicMoney (from ftp://utopia.hacktic.nl). It is just the code (compiling without error), but there is no README or documentation at all.Can someone give me a hint,what to do with this package? Is there a documentation somesite? BTW utopia is the site,you can get all the export restricted stuff outside the US. Heinz-Juergen Keller email: hjk(a)ddorf.rhein-ruhr.de

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Re: Crypto code published in magazines
by Peter D. Junger 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Peter Gutmann writes: : I'm trying to find instances of crypto code published in computer magazines i : n : the last few years. I know of Blowfish in DDJ, are there cases of more : mainstream computer mags like Byte publishing crypto code (I know Byte did DE : S : in 1977, I'm hoping for something a bit more recent)?. Please mail or cc : replies directly to me, nntp.hks.net seems to have died :-(. : : Peter. If there are any responses I would be very interested in seeing them too. Thanks, Peter -- Peter D. Junger--Case Western Reserve University Law School--Cleveland, OH EMAIL: junger(a)samsara.law.cwru.edu URL: http://samsara.law.cwru.edu NOTE: junger(a)pdj2-ra.f-remote.cwru.edu no longer exists

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Re:
by paul＠fatmans.demon.co.uk 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> > PS. His sexist comments are rubbish too. I usually like his crypto posts, > > however, as long as they are technical rather than legal... > > Paul's sexist comments are very interesting - I hope to find more time to > comment on them too. I don't know if they have the same kind of "affirmative > action" in the U.K. that they have in the U.S. - here if you find a woman > in the position of authority, there's a good chance that she was promoted > ahead of more qualified men to meet some quota, and is therefore incompetent. We do not have such laws as far as I`m aware (I try to know as little as possible about law and finance/econimics as I find them intensely boring, even if they are necessary knowledge as a proponent of freedom of action and speech) but in my experience a number of employers promote women ahead of men in order to avoid costly industrial tribunals brought for discrimination. I also believe for the same reasons a lot of known homosexuals, blacks, <insert minority group of choice here> are promoted ahead of more qualified white, straight males. Datacomms Technologies web authoring and data security Paul Bradley, Paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk Paul(a)crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul(a)cryptography.uk.eu.org Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/ Email for PGP public key, ID: 5BBFAEB1 "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"

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Re: (fwd) DES challenge organisation
by Jon Biddell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

How the hell do I get OFF this list ??

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Re: (fwd) DES challenge organisation
by Thomas S. 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi! (wow, what a distribution. I should mention that des-challenge is down this weekend, so the response may not be as expected.) >>>>> "Timothy" == Timothy C May <tcmay(a)got.net> writes: Timothy> At 11:02 PM +0000 2/15/97, Adam Back wrote: >> Thomas S <ths(a)fh28.fa.umist.ac.uk> writes: >>> [...] >>> >>> 5. The prize money will be split equally between Gutenberg and >>> EFF. There is a possibility of using part of it for stickers >>> or something similar, but don't count on it. >> Not a good idea. >> >> How can this be enforced? The RSADSI DES challenge is open to >> all comers, and how do you prove that someone who finds the key >> found it through this group effort? The client reports the key to the server, not to the user (very simple, and very simple ways to get around of course). In a nutshell: we can't enforce it, at least I can't see a way to do so. We certainly can't keep people from doing their own "treasure hunt". ... Timothy> A 2-4x factor is significant, and may warrant a Timothy> coordinated search. However, the various problems Timothy> implicit in coordinated searches are factors, too. Timothy> Also, an uncoordinated search solves the "prize" problem, Timothy> as whomever finds the key makes the contact with RSADSI. Indeed--that's what we try to avoid. Our project is not a race for money, it is a demonstration with a political impact. The main point in favour of a coordinated search is the availability of progress reports. Nobody can argue that the key was found by chance--as there is exact data about performance and the expected maximum duration for the search. Timothy> One of the problems with a coordinated search, if the Timothy> remaining keyspace to be doled out is publically Timothy> announced, is that as the keyspace is searched and a key Timothy> _not_ found, the remaining keyspace is increasingly more Timothy> tempting for "independent searchers" to search. Sort of Timothy> the way the odds on some lotteries actually become Timothy> "acceptable" as the lottery pot grows. The organizer of Timothy> the coordinated search must then, I surmise, keep the Timothy> assignments secret and dole out keyspace securely. This is a technical problem which is discussed at the moment. The keyspace will not be publically announced (and it wasn't during the last project). Thomas -- OOOO, OOOOOOOO, |, ths(a)rz.tu-ilmenau.de OO, OO, O, O, |, http://www.rz.tu-ilmenau.de/~ths/ O, O, O, |, ______ __ ___ O, O--O, O, O, |, | (_ |-|-` O, O, O, |, |homas __)te| |en OO, OO, O, O, |, OOOO, OOOOOOOO, |, not to be forwarded without permission

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alt.cypherpunks.* groups make primenet.com
by Carol Anne Cypherpunk 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Primenet.com has picked up the alt.cypherpunk feed. And, there was spam (yum, yum) on it already. Carol Anne Cypherpunk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Uncensored from heavily.censored.org iQCVAwUBMwbyForpjEWs1wBlAQEOYQP/bU7uRm5YIMgSkH9QoRLm1UzUCcJ8kxoY okFp6cshYvn5zZf4Kp8z9eWh67ox8yN/Lsp8DzFRkS9xrmobX/5givMut304rN5+ p213AzjaEOhfaat5w4AWUPU1xAIkTnI0jqN4vslKQ0Y77fyrzRgwtCCvsw2VzCfv hPSSApmGuys= =mlts -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Member Internet Society - Certified BETSI Programmer - Webmistress *********************************************************************** Carol Anne Braddock (cab8) carolann(a)censored.org 206.42.112.96 My Homepage The Cyberdoc ***********************************************************************

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Re: Dave Hayes takes over Cypherpunks
by aga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Sun, 16 Feb 1997, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 09:35:27 -0600 (CST) > From: "Igor Chudov @ home" <ichudov(a)algebra.com> > Reply-To: freedom-knights(a)jetcafe.org > To: aga <aga(a)dhp.com> > Cc: ichudov(a)algebra.com, toto(a)sk.sympatico.ca, freedom-knights(a)jetcafe.org, > cypherpunks(a)algebra.com > Subject: Re: Dave Hayes takes over Cypherpunks > > aga wrote: > > On Sat, 15 Feb 1997, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > > > Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 09:07:40 -0600 (CST) > > > From: "Igor Chudov @ home" <ichudov(a)algebra.com> > > > To: aga <aga(a)dhp.com> > > > Cc: toto(a)sk.sympatico.ca, freedom-knights(a)jetcafe.org, > > > cypherpunks(a)algebra.com > > > Subject: Re: Dave Hayes takes over Cypherpunks > > > > > > > ====================================== > > > > == This list is still experimental. == > > > > == admin ichudov(a)algebra.com == > > > > ====================================== > > > > > > > > > > Just fyi, I am removing this footer from the list config. > > > > > > It was here so that people could tell that the list was new and > > > glitches were likely to happen. > > > > > > > O.K. what are you doing, Igor? Is this a new cypherpunks list? > > This is ONE OF new cypherpunks lists. These lists will soon be > connected to each other so that people subscribed to any of them > will receive all article sent to each list. > > Kinda like USENET. > 10-4 It is like a new hierarchy, huh? {;-)-~ cmsg newgroup cypherpunks.cunt

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