December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Why Digital Video Disks are late to market
by Steve Schear 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Has anyone seen discussions on how these protection mechanisms can be circumvented? >http://techweb.cmp.com/eet/news/97/942news/encryp.html > >To summarize, the Digital Video Disk standard contains an encryption >standard for copyright and anti-piracy protection. however, "some U.S. >PC and silicon vendors have just about abandoned hope of keeping to >their revised launch schedules for DVD-enabled systems." [snip] >A solution may be in the offing within days. Some sources said late last >week that Matsushita [who owns license rights] and key U.S. computer >companies may resolve the software-licensing issues by the end of this >week. The PC industry seeks amendments to the licensing-agreement language >that would result in equivalent treatment of software- and hardware-based >CSS decryption. > >... there apparently has been some speculation among the U.S. PC community >that Matsushita may be stonewalling on the software-licensing issue so that >it can establish its hardware-based decryption solution in the marketplace. > --Steve

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Re: Cypherpunks FAQ
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > Toto wrote: > > The primal instinct of those with interest in 'control' is centered > > around the need for 'total' control. The history of dictators in > > general has shown more than a few who have allowed the sheep to escape > > from their pens while they were fixated on chasing down the few 'black > > sheep' that had strayed from their control. > > The CypherPunks list is a prime example of this. John and Sandy became > > so fixated on their attack on Dr. Vulis (and subsequent 'dissenters') > > that they eventually lost control of the other sheep in the fold who > > were willing to go along with a 'moderate' abrogation of their right > > to free speech by the censoring of only the 'black' sheep. > Take no offense, but why nobody thought about an obviously more likely > conclusion: that it is Dr. Vulis who was, say, hired by Detweiler to > destroy cypherpunks. I personally find the above unlikely, but at least > more likely than all other suggestions (which I think are an example > of the delusion of grandeur). Remember the movie Die Hard (#1)? Remember what the wife said about how her husband would drive people stark, raving mad? I humbly suggest by analogy that it was me, since that is my effect on a lot of people, particularly (and especially) the John and Sandy types.

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Belated thank you's
by jbugden＠smtplink.alis.ca 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

It seems somewhat trite to say thank you for the service John provided now that it is going away, when while it was here it was taken for granted. Still, I will say thank you. Perhaps in this respect it is like good health, which while it is ours is not given much though, but once lost, becomes the whole of our thoughts. The loss of John's involvement is a real loss. At the same time, I would like to think that virtual communities such as this one are robust enough to survive the type of strife that we have undergone. People being what they are, the list would have had a hard time staying static without some strong guiding focus. Given the anarchic leanings of many people on this list, John's actions have done much to test the practicality of the principles that have been spoken about here. They may also show how much work it is to follow these same principles. Still, I wonder how John will feel about the cypherpunks list as it moves beyond him. Will it grow and become widespread? Or, will it slowly die from lack of interest or time? I think he might not like either answer. A la prochain fois, James The advancement and perfection of mathematics are intimately connected with the prosperity of the State. - Napoleon I

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Re: Anyone have the complete info on CP list alternatives?
by paul＠fatmans.demon.co.uk 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> However, I'm very confused on just what to do at this > point, my news server doesn't see alt.cypherpunks > yet and if it did would probably lose about 75% of > the posts if past performance is to be any indicator. > (Or more accurately, would never get them, we seem > to be a bottom feeder here in South Florida as far > as the newsgroups go.) try pubnews.demon.co.uk, its a public server open to everyone and his dog, recognises all newsgroups, doesn`t accept rmgroups and is quite fast (quickest line between UK and USA, 100mbit/sec as I remember). Alternatively there is always dejanews.com Datacomms Technologies web authoring and data security Paul Bradley, Paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk Paul(a)crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul(a)cryptography.uk.eu.org Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/ Email for PGP public key, ID: 5BBFAEB1 "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"

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FW: Rules for The Great DES Replacement Contest
by Mullen, Patrick 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 09:24:38 -0500 (EST) >From: Christof Paar <christof(a)ece.WPI.EDU> >To: christof(a)ece.WPI.EDU >Subject: (fwd) Rules for The Great DES Replacement Contest >Newsgroups: sci.crypt > > >Rules for The Great DES Replacement Contest > >On 1997 Jan 02, the National Institute of Standards and Technology >of The Department of Commerce announced the start of a process to >approve an "Advanced Encryption Standard." (See the Federal >Register Vol. 62, No. 1, pp. 93-94; for example, by going to > > http://www.lib.auburn.edu/gpo/index.html > >and searching the Federal Register for "Advanced Encryption >Standard.") > > >The first part of the process seems to be requesting comments >on the cipher requirements and submission guidelines as follows: > >"Proposed Draft Minimum Acceptability Requirements and Evaluation >Criteria > > "The draft minimum acceptability requirements and evaluation >criteria are: > A.1 AES shall be publicly defined. > A.2 AES shall be a symmetric block cipher. > A.3 AES shall be designed so that the key length may be increased >as needed. > A.4 AES shall be implementable in both hardware and software. > A.5 AES shall either be (a) freely available or (b) available >under terms consistent with the American National Standards Institute >(ANSI) patent policy. > A.6 Algorithms which meet the above requirements will be judged >based on the following factors: > (a) Security (i.e., the effort required to cryptanalyze), > (b) Computational efficiency, > (c) Memory requirements, > (d) Hardware and software suitability, > (e) Simplicity, > (f) Flexibility, and > (g) Licensing requirements." > > >"Proposed Draft Submission Requirements" > > "In order to provide for an orderly, fair, and timely evaluation of >candidate algorithm proposals, submission requirements will specify the >procedures and supporting documentation necessary to submit a candidate >algorithm. > > B.1 A complete written specification of the algorithm including >all necessary mathematical equations, tables, and parameters needed to >implement the algorithm. > B.2 Software implementation and source code, in ANSI C code, which >will compile on a personal computer. This code will be used to compare >software performance and memory requirements with respect to other >algorithms. > B.3 Statement of estimated computational efficiency in hardware >and software. > B.4 Encryption example mapping a specified plaintext value into >ciphertext. > B.5 Statement of licensing requirements and patents which may be >infringed by implementations of this algorithm. > B.6 An analysis of the algorithm with respect to known attacks. > B.7 Statement of advantages and limitations of the submitted >algorithm." > >

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Re: alt.cypherpunks.*, cypherpunks@*.*
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

(A copy of this message has also been posted to the following newsgroups: alt.cypherpunks) At 9:02 AM -0500 2/19/97, Mullen, Patrick wrote: >I just got my news admin to add alt.cypherpunks. Unfortunately, I can't >remember the names of the subgroups (which weren't added), and I >deleted the mailings which listed them. > >If I remember correctly, they were along the lines of > >alt.cypherpunks.technical >alt.cypherpunks.social >alt.cypherpunks.announce >alt.cypherpunks.ebonics :-) Sorry, couldn't resist! Patrick reminds us of why a simple name like "alt.cypherpunks" is preferable to an extensive hierarchy: "I can't remember the names of the subgroups." It was a mistake, I believe, to create the various subgroups, and I hope they fail to propagate. I'd rather use more capable newsreading tools to scan _one_ group and follow interesting threads in it than try to remember what got posted where. And I especially don't want to see the predictable carping about how some topic "belongs" in one of the other groups! And many will simply cross-post their stuff to more than one of the groups, trying to guess which are most relevant, which are being read by enough people, etc. Even at a hundred messages a day, a single group is easily managed. And having four of them will not cut the traffic in the main group significantly. --Tim May, who plans to only post to the main group. -- Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: Why Digital Video Disks are late to market
by Jeremiah A Blatz 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- azur(a)netcom.com (Steve Schear) writes: > Has anyone seen discussions on how these protection mechanisms can be > circumvented? Ummm, sector copy? AFAIK, the reader/writer manfacturer is trusted to cripple any copies it makes. Of course, it's all software, so if some EVIL person were to write a driver that did not honor the "don't copy me" header, society would just come crashing down around us. Jer "standing on top of the world/ never knew how you never could/ never knew why you never could live/ innocent life that everyone did" -Wormhole -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQB1AwUBMwsT98kz/YzIV3P5AQFzRgMA1FLUxHHCv509ucqHbysLFQZCGplZbfXj Z3J9FAicOwmMp/6G1kCATc7193ZxbgpHfhNQ7Z+SIEPaxusL5MjkrWuCvoB9Kh4s JTyspKmgBVJ+/RnIro+QeRHqFH8atowh =7SI9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: alt.cypherpunks.*, cypherpunks@*.*
by ichudov＠algebra.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Mullen, Patrick wrote: > alt.cypherpunks.ebonics :-) Sorry, couldn't resist! > > Did I miss any? Name-mangle? alt.cypherpunks.purebred-sovoks > I also have listed the following alternate list hosts > > cypherpunks(a)algebra.com > cypherpunks(a)cyberpass.net > cypherpunks(a)ssz.com > > If anyone has a more complete list of hosts, I'd be happy > for additions to the list. Dave Hayes was going to create one: Dave Hayes wrote: Dave> To: freedom-knights(a)jetcafe.org, cypherpunks(a)toad.com Dave> Subject: Re: Moderation experiment almost over; "put up or shut up" Dave> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 12:29:41 -0800 Dave> Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com Dave> Precedence: bulk Dave> Dave> Ok. I'll "put up". Dave> Dave> If the cypherpunks will have me, -I'll- run the cypherpunks Dave> list. Those that know me know that I will *not* censor, moderate, or Dave> otherwise alter the content (other than the stuff majordomo does with Dave> "resend") of any messages to the list. and then wrote: Dave> To: freedom-knights(a)jetcafe.org Dave> Cc: dthorn(a)gte.net (Dale Thorn), ichudov(a)algebra.com, cypherpunks(a)toad.com Dave> Subject: Re: Moderation experiment almost over; "put up or shut up" Dave> Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 13:13:40 -0800 Dave> Dave> Kent Crispin writes: Dave> > Dave is offering a single mailing list, which, while I am sure Dave is Dave> > a great person, still represents a single point of control and a Dave> > single point of failure. A distributed mailing list has a potential Dave> > for being much more robust, and for supporting a wide range of Dave> > viewpoints. Dave> Dave> I can also offer my participation in the distributed mailing list, if Dave> that is what it takes to get cypherpunks free of control interests again. I am not sure if it already exists... - Igor.

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news article:fake email on Capitol Hill (fwd)
by Z.B. 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 06:36:28 -0600 From: Gekko <gekko(a)midusa.net> To: dc-stuff(a)dis.org Subject: news article:fake email on Capitol Hill Spoofing Congress Fake e-mail floods Capitol Hill NO, THESE weren't lobbyists pummeling members of Congress with propaganda, but apparently pranksters under the guise of legitimate Net users. In recent weeks, they have flooded lawmakers with hundreds of e-mail threats to delete all files in the Capitol Hill computer system. One of the identities used was that of Mercury News Computing Editor Dan Gillmor in the ruse that included 200 messages to Sen. Barbara Boxer, D-Calif. The FBI is looking into the incidents of "spoofing," but apparently no damage has yet been found. Story by Rory J. O'Connor of the Mercury News Washington Bureau

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Re: Constitution and a Right to Privacy
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

snow wrote: > Mr. may wrote: > > At 1:22 PM -0600 2/17/97, snow wrote: > Amendment IV- > (1791) The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, > and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, > and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or > affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the > persons or things to be seized. > It seems to me that the constitution is written rather simply, at least > prior to the 14th amendment. Congress Shall Make No Law... where is the > confusion? Simple, but.... In a right to jury trial of peers, are the peers the peers of the defendant or the peers of the victim? Both the Rodney King officers and the O.J. cases were perfect examples of how, when you switch the peer groups, you reverse the decisions.

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Belated thank you's
by jbugden＠smtplink.alis.ca 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

It seems somewhat trite to say thank you for the service John provided now that it is going away, when while it was here it was taken for granted. Still, I will say thank you. Perhaps in this respect it is like good health, which while it is ours is not given much though, but once lost, becomes the whole of our thoughts. The loss of John's involvement is a real loss. At the same time, I would like to think that virtual communities such as this one are robust enough to survive the type of strife that we have undergone. People being what they are, the list would have had a hard time staying static without some strong guiding focus. Given the anarchic leanings of many people on this list, John's actions have done much to test the practicality of the principles that have been spoken about here. They may also show how much work it is to follow these same principles. Still, I wonder how John will feel about the cypherpunks list as it moves beyond him. Will it grow and become widespread? Or, will it slowly die from lack of interest or time? I think he might not like either answer. A la prochain fois, James The advancement and perfection of mathematics are intimately connected with the prosperity of the State. - Napoleon I

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Re: Cypherpunks FAQ
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > Toto wrote: > > The primal instinct of those with interest in 'control' is centered > > around the need for 'total' control. The history of dictators in > > general has shown more than a few who have allowed the sheep to escape > > from their pens while they were fixated on chasing down the few 'black > > sheep' that had strayed from their control. > > The CypherPunks list is a prime example of this. John and Sandy became > > so fixated on their attack on Dr. Vulis (and subsequent 'dissenters') > > that they eventually lost control of the other sheep in the fold who > > were willing to go along with a 'moderate' abrogation of their right > > to free speech by the censoring of only the 'black' sheep. > Take no offense, but why nobody thought about an obviously more likely > conclusion: that it is Dr. Vulis who was, say, hired by Detweiler to > destroy cypherpunks. I personally find the above unlikely, but at least > more likely than all other suggestions (which I think are an example > of the delusion of grandeur). Remember the movie Die Hard (#1)? Remember what the wife said about how her husband would drive people stark, raving mad? I humbly suggest by analogy that it was me, since that is my effect on a lot of people, particularly (and especially) the John and Sandy types.

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Re: alt.cypherpunks.*, cypherpunks@*.*
by Tim May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

(A copy of this message has also been posted to the following newsgroups: alt.cypherpunks) At 9:02 AM -0500 2/19/97, Mullen, Patrick wrote: >I just got my news admin to add alt.cypherpunks. Unfortunately, I can't >remember the names of the subgroups (which weren't added), and I >deleted the mailings which listed them. > >If I remember correctly, they were along the lines of > >alt.cypherpunks.technical >alt.cypherpunks.social >alt.cypherpunks.announce >alt.cypherpunks.ebonics :-) Sorry, couldn't resist! Patrick reminds us of why a simple name like "alt.cypherpunks" is preferable to an extensive hierarchy: "I can't remember the names of the subgroups." It was a mistake, I believe, to create the various subgroups, and I hope they fail to propagate. I'd rather use more capable newsreading tools to scan _one_ group and follow interesting threads in it than try to remember what got posted where. And I especially don't want to see the predictable carping about how some topic "belongs" in one of the other groups! And many will simply cross-post their stuff to more than one of the groups, trying to guess which are most relevant, which are being read by enough people, etc. Even at a hundred messages a day, a single group is easily managed. And having four of them will not cut the traffic in the main group significantly. --Tim May, who plans to only post to the main group. -- Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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FW: Rules for The Great DES Replacement Contest
by Mullen 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 09:24:38 -0500 (EST) >From: Christof Paar <christof(a)ece.WPI.EDU> >To: christof(a)ece.WPI.EDU >Subject: (fwd) Rules for The Great DES Replacement Contest >Newsgroups: sci.crypt > > >Rules for The Great DES Replacement Contest > >On 1997 Jan 02, the National Institute of Standards and Technology >of The Department of Commerce announced the start of a process to >approve an "Advanced Encryption Standard." (See the Federal >Register Vol. 62, No. 1, pp. 93-94; for example, by going to > > http://www.lib.auburn.edu/gpo/index.html > >and searching the Federal Register for "Advanced Encryption >Standard.") > > >The first part of the process seems to be requesting comments >on the cipher requirements and submission guidelines as follows: > >"Proposed Draft Minimum Acceptability Requirements and Evaluation >Criteria > > "The draft minimum acceptability requirements and evaluation >criteria are: > A.1 AES shall be publicly defined. > A.2 AES shall be a symmetric block cipher. > A.3 AES shall be designed so that the key length may be increased >as needed. > A.4 AES shall be implementable in both hardware and software. > A.5 AES shall either be (a) freely available or (b) available >under terms consistent with the American National Standards Institute >(ANSI) patent policy. > A.6 Algorithms which meet the above requirements will be judged >based on the following factors: > (a) Security (i.e., the effort required to cryptanalyze), > (b) Computational efficiency, > (c) Memory requirements, > (d) Hardware and software suitability, > (e) Simplicity, > (f) Flexibility, and > (g) Licensing requirements." > > >"Proposed Draft Submission Requirements" > > "In order to provide for an orderly, fair, and timely evaluation of >candidate algorithm proposals, submission requirements will specify the >procedures and supporting documentation necessary to submit a candidate >algorithm. > > B.1 A complete written specification of the algorithm including >all necessary mathematical equations, tables, and parameters needed to >implement the algorithm. > B.2 Software implementation and source code, in ANSI C code, which >will compile on a personal computer. This code will be used to compare >software performance and memory requirements with respect to other >algorithms. > B.3 Statement of estimated computational efficiency in hardware >and software. > B.4 Encryption example mapping a specified plaintext value into >ciphertext. > B.5 Statement of licensing requirements and patents which may be >infringed by implementations of this algorithm. > B.6 An analysis of the algorithm with respect to known attacks. > B.7 Statement of advantages and limitations of the submitted >algorithm." > >

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Re: Anyone have the complete info on CP list alternatives?
by paul＠fatmans.demon.co.uk 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> However, I'm very confused on just what to do at this > point, my news server doesn't see alt.cypherpunks > yet and if it did would probably lose about 75% of > the posts if past performance is to be any indicator. > (Or more accurately, would never get them, we seem > to be a bottom feeder here in South Florida as far > as the newsgroups go.) try pubnews.demon.co.uk, its a public server open to everyone and his dog, recognises all newsgroups, doesn`t accept rmgroups and is quite fast (quickest line between UK and USA, 100mbit/sec as I remember). Alternatively there is always dejanews.com Datacomms Technologies web authoring and data security Paul Bradley, Paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk Paul(a)crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul(a)cryptography.uk.eu.org Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/ Email for PGP public key, ID: 5BBFAEB1 "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"

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No Subject
by Shark 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Trial

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OECD on Dirty Money
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Last week's FT-reported OECD money laundering paper, "FATF-VIII Money Laundering Typologies Exercise Public Report," 5 February 1997 is at: http://jya.com/fatf8.htm (Text 94K; 4 images 78K)

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Re: Belated thank you's
by Thomas M. McGhan 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

in a message apparently-from: jbugden(a)smtplink.alis.ca these words appeared: >The loss of John's involvement is a real loss. {snip} I would expect that "John's involvement" will not be lost just because the primary mass storage for the data comprising these messages is not on a disk drive in toad hall. >...how John will feel about the cypherpunks list as it moves beyond him. {snip} Unless the openness of this list, which was such a cause celebre, is compromised, I do not envision any mechanisms being put in place to exclude his contributions, if he chooses to make any. I also expect that the outcome of the in-progress election for ISOC board of trustees may have a certain effect on his time-and-energy resource allocation algorithm for the next few years. ======= tmcghan(a)mail.bcpl.lib.md.us http://www.gill-simpson.com voice: (410) 467-3335 fax: (410) 235-6961 pagenet: (410) 716-1342 cellular: (410) 241-9113 ICBM: 39.395N 76.469W

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Netcom carriage of alt.cypherpunk newsgroups
by azur＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I received the following reply to my inquiry: --------- Dear Mr. Schear: Thank you for your request. The addition of newsgroups is handled by our System Administrators, and we have forwarded your message over to their department. If we are able to add this group it should be available within two weeks of receipt. If we are unable to add the group for any reason we will also inform you of this within two weeks. If you have any other questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact us again. - Leigh Ann --------------------------------------------------------------------- _ _ |_|_ |_| Email Technical Support _ |_|_ NETCOM On-Line Communication Services, Inc. |_| _|_| http://www.netcom.com/bin/webtech |_| 24-Hour Technical Support: (408) 881-1810 ---------------------------------------------------------------------

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"cypherpunks is dead..."
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

"...long live cypherpunks?" "So long, and thanks for all the fish?" But, seriously, folks... Lucky Green echoed many of my own thoughts when he talked about all the things being on this list has meant to him. Like Lucky, there is a rediculously huge list of things that this list has taught me over the almost three (wow..) years or so that I've been here. Thanks to all of you here, I have had nothing short of a Copernican transformation in my perception of the universe, and it completely changed what I wanted to do with the rest of my life. From the very first time I started reading this list and applying what I learned here to what I already knew, right then, for the first time in a *very* long time, I knew *exactly* how some very important pieces of the world actually worked, and more important, why they were going to change. I now *know* where the world is going to go. Maybe not when, of course, but certainly where and how. :-) (Old stock picker's joke: "I can tell you what. I can tell you when. I can't tell you both. If I did, I wouldn't tell *you*.") Anyway, I've learned all these things from many cypherpunks, some still here, and a lot who've left. I expect that, as we move into the next phase of this "group", we'll continue to teach ourselves much more about the world and strong cryptography's effect on it. But, nothing will compare to the feeling we'll get when we remember the time we've spent here at Toad Hall. We have John Gilmore to thank for the "lodgings", of course, and, certainly, for his encouragement and support. And, obviously, his tolerance, which finally sagged and broke under the weight of both his expectations and those of our own. We also have to thank Tim May for his um, ideological, presence on this list from since before it existed, :-), and, or course, for his current "leadership", both moral and political. (Of course, I can say all the next few wierd and gushy things about him without fear of refutation on his part, 'cause, in his wisdom, I'm still in his killfile ;-)) It was Tim who was our compass. It was Tim who came down from the mountain and stopped us from worshiping the fatted calf of censorship, and who is now leading us into the promised land of unfettered discourse, both on usenet and on the new cypherpunk server network. Since Tim paper-trained most of us here (myself included, though some may debate how well he succeeded :-)), that is, how to behave on this list, and, most important, how to imagine what a world of strong crytography on ubiquitous networks would look like, I now find his "leading" us out onto the net, and away from Sinai, most symmetrical indeed. :-). And so, in this last 24 hours or so on toad.com, I want to thank *both* Tim and John. But, also, I personally want to thank the "money-punks". People like Eric Hughes, and Perry Metzger, and Ian Goldberg, and Hal Finney, and Lucky Green, and Duncan Frissell, and Black Unicorn, and many, many other people, who have helped me work through, on this list, or in private e-mail, or, occasionally, in person, all of the stuff they know, and the stuff I have figured out myself. All about e$, about digital bearer certificate markets, about microintermediation. All the things which completely occupy almost all my waking thoughts these days. Because of this list's effect on my life, I have been motivated to start the Digital Commerce Society of Boston, to evangelize financial cryptography to any audience who would listen to me, to create a web site dedicated to e$, to create a group of e$ lists with some 300 total subscribers, to work with Vinnie Moscaritolo to create both the Mac-Crypto lists and conferences, to work with Vince Cate and Ray Hirschfeld to create the world's first peer-reviewed conference on financial cryptography, and with Vince and Ian Goldberg to create the world's first intensive financial cryptography bootcamp (which is going on as I write this). To create, with Vinnie, and Rachel Wilmer, and Anthony Templer, and Bob Antia, and Rodney Thayer, the next generation of the e$ website and mailing lists. Next week, I go to FC97 in Anguilla because of the things I've learned on this list. In the middle of March, I go to Cupertino to help Vinnie with Mac-Crypto 2.0, because of the things I've learned on this list. I've been invited to speak all over the world (and New Hampshire, too :-)) to talk about this stuff. I get quoted in the newspapers. I write magazine op-ed pieces. It has even earned me a buck or two. :-). In short, I owe everything I do of any consequence these days to my participation on this list, and, for that, I'm profoundly grateful to all of you for the privelege of being here: to listen, to learn, and, occasionally, to pay back all the stuff I've learned with a thing or two that I've worked out myself. Like that creosote bush I talked about before, cypherpunks is not going to die just because the address "cypherpunks(a)toad.com" ceases to exist. There are already 3rd-order cypherpunks lists out there. 3rd generation copies of the same "memetic" material. cypherpunks will *never* die, short of a cybernetic Chixalub event of some kind, and, frankly, even then. The internet sees censorship as damage and routes around it. So. In a very real sense, today on cypherpunks is like any other day in the life of a creosote bush. It's a big desert, folks. We're the only ones who know how to live out here. The whole damn desert, as far as the eye can see, is ours to move into. All we have to do is keep filling in the empty spots... Cheers, Bob Hettinga ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "Never attribute to conspiracy what can be explained by stupidity." -- Jerry Pournelle The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/rah/ FC97: Anguilla, anyone? http://www.ai/fc97/

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Mobil adopts no-physical-connection electronic payment token
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 12:01:14 -0500 (EST) To: Multiple Recipients of e$pam <e$pam(a)intertrader.com> From: e$pam(a)intertrader.com (e$pam) Reply-To: e$(a)thumper.vmeng.com X-Comment: To unsubscribe, send any email to e$pam-off(a)intertrader.com Precedence: Bulk Subject: Mobil adopts no-physical-connection electronic payment token X-orig-from: "Travis J.I. Corcoran" <Travis-Corcoran(a)deshaw.com> X-e$pam-source: bounce-dcsb(a)ai.mit.edu Forwarded by Robert Hettinga ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 09:02:14 -0500 From: "Travis J.I. Corcoran" <Travis-Corcoran(a)deshaw.com> To: dcsb(a)ai.mit.edu Subject: Mobil adopts no-physical-connection electronic payment token Sender: bounce-dcsb(a)ai.mit.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Travis J.I. Corcoran" <Travis-Corcoran(a)deshaw.com> FYI, from today's WSJ: ------------------------------ snip! ------------------------------ Mobil Aims to Turn Gas Pumps Into Automatic-Payment Sites By PETER FRITSCH Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL Mobil Corp. hopes to make life in the fast lane a little bit faster. The oil company will introduce Wednesday a miniature electronic-payment device that busy motorists can simply wave at a gasoline pump to fill 'er up. The tiny electronic tag -- called a Speedpass -- clips onto a driver's key ring. Mobil is betting the technology will catch on with drivers tired of fumbling for cash or waiting for a pump to authorize a credit-card purchase. Whether drivers are in such a hurry that they will be interested is an open question. "My key chain already looks like a janitor's," says Carol Coale, a Houston securities analyst. Mobil, which tested the Speedpass over the past six months with 10,000 consumers in St. Louis, says the added convenience can save the motorist valuable time. Mobil's technology, developed in partnership with Texas Instruments Inc. and Dresser Industries Inc., is similar to that used by drivers at bridge and highway toll booths. Once a driver waves the tag at the pump, the pump instantly contacts Mobil's credit department and charges a credit card preselected by the customer. The marketing effort challenges the conventional wisdom of gasoline retailing. Most drivers say location is more important when the gasoline gauge reads "empty" than brand name or price. Mobil's thinking is that the gee-whiz factor of owning the Speedpass, combined with the convenience, will persuade people to go an extra mile to buy from one of Mobil's 7,700 branded stations. Speedpass is also an attempt to help Mobil build on its position as the nation's top gasoline seller. With a 9.9% share of the market, Mobil in 1995 overtook Shell Oil Co. as the leading gasoline seller, as measured in gallons sold. (Figures for 1996 aren't available.) Mobil, which was among the first oil companies to use pay-at-the-pump technology, will introduce Speedpass in key markets by May 1. ------------------------------ snip! ------------------------------ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To unsubscribe from the dcsb list, send a letter to: Majordomo(a)ai.mit.edu In the body of the message, write: unsubscribe dcsb Or, to subscribe, write: subscribe dcsb If you have questions, write to me at Owner-DCSB(a)ai.mit.edu -------------------------------------------------- The e$ lists are brought to you by: Intertrader Ltd - Commerce Solutions in the UK Visit <http://www.intertrader.com/> for details ... Where people, networks and money come together: Consult Hyperion http://www.hyperion.co.uk info(a)hyperion.co.uk Like e$pam? Help pay for it! See <http://www.atanda.com/rah.html> Or, for e$pam sponsorship, see <http://thumper.vmeng.com/pub/rah/> Thanks to the e$ e$lves: Of Counsel: Vinnie Moscaritolo <mailto:vinnie@webstuff.apple.com> (Majordomo)^2: Rachel Willmer<mailto:rachel@intertrader.com> Commermeister: Anthony Templer <mailto:anthony@atanda.com> Interturge: Rodney Thayer <mailto:rodney@sabletech.com> HTMLurgist: Cynthia Zwerling <mailto:czrider@@webstuff.apple.com> --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "Never attribute to conspiracy what can be explained by stupidity." -- Jerry Pournelle The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/rah/ FC97: Anguilla, anyone? http://www.ai/fc97/

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Re: Why Digital Video Disks are late to market
by landon_dyer＠wayfarer.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 09:53 AM 2/19/97 -0500, you wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >azur(a)netcom.com (Steve Schear) writes: >> Has anyone seen discussions on how these protection mechanisms can be >> circumvented? > >Ummm, sector copy? AFAIK, the reader/writer manfacturer is trusted to >cripple any copies it makes. Of course, it's all software, so if some >EVIL person were to write a driver that did not honor the "don't copy >me" header ... i can confirm this. i recently talked to an employee of a firm [who i won't name] that was looking for some kind of shrouding scheme to protect their copy-protection enforcement code, under W95. [he knows the effort is ultimately doomed. he *is* a user of SoftICE, after all... :-) ] quotable quotes: "we know someone's going to have their scheme cracked. all we care about is that ours isn't the first." "i can't tell you the [encryption] algorithm, because that would let you break it. yes, the security is in the algorithm." where does hollywood get its crypto? mattel? -landon [back to lurk mode...]

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No Subject
by Shark 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Trial

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OECD on Dirty Money
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Last week's FT-reported OECD money laundering paper, "FATF-VIII Money Laundering Typologies Exercise Public Report," 5 February 1997 is at: http://jya.com/fatf8.htm (Text 94K; 4 images 78K)

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Re: Cypherpunks FAQ
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > Toto wrote: > > The primal instinct of those with interest in 'control' is centered > > around the need for 'total' control. The history of dictators in > > general has shown more than a few who have allowed the sheep to escape > > from their pens while they were fixated on chasing down the few 'black > > sheep' that had strayed from their control. > > The CypherPunks list is a prime example of this. John and Sandy became > > so fixated on their attack on Dr. Vulis (and subsequent 'dissenters') > > that they eventually lost control of the other sheep in the fold who > > were willing to go along with a 'moderate' abrogation of their right > > to free speech by the censoring of only the 'black' sheep. > Take no offense, but why nobody thought about an obviously more likely > conclusion: that it is Dr. Vulis who was, say, hired by Detweiler to > destroy cypherpunks. I personally find the above unlikely, but at least > more likely than all other suggestions (which I think are an example > of the delusion of grandeur). Remember the movie Die Hard (#1)? Remember what the wife said about how her husband would drive people stark, raving mad? I humbly suggest by analogy that it was me, since that is my effect on a lot of people, particularly (and especially) the John and Sandy types.

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