December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

No Subject
by logos 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

You wrote: >Sounds like a heck of a good idea, if: >1. You can ID the bad logic with a high percent of success >(90+ ?). I shall endevor to do my best. Initially, I shall only comment on the most flagrant violations. 90+% should be easy. >2. You can comment/reply for all members fairly, but if> >limited by the large number of postings (and fallacies ?), >give priority to ??? Worst first. >As far as Congress expelling members, are you saying that >the Senate and/or H.O.R. can permanently eliminate a person >elected by the people? Yes, the congress is the sole determiner of the qualifications of its members. >Has this ever been tested? Adam Clayton Powell. Logos out

1 0

No Subject
by jens.melander＠vpress.se 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

unsuscribe cyberpunks

2 1

No Subject
by logos 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

An anonymous poster wrote: >Timothy C[*] May, a product of a* birth, appeared with >coathanger through his head. >/o)\ Timothy C[*] May >\(o/ I respectfully ask that the author of this post contact me. I am curious about his or her motives and would appreciate it if he or she would address these questions: 1) Why are you attacking Tim May? Has he harmed you in some way? 2) Do you think such posts harm Tim May or help you in some fashion? 3) What do you hope to accomplish by these posts? 4) Do you favor the use of strong cryptography to preserve privacy? 5) If Yes, do you think such posts are constructive to that end? If No, is it your intent that your posts harm the cause of strong cryptography and privacy? 6) Why have you chosen to hide your true identity? Logos out

4 3

No Subject
by logos 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Blanc Weber wrote: >Statements like these, with which cpunks retort to each >other all the time, are examples of the ever-continuing >exercise of logic which goes on the list - even if not >formally delineated nor announced as being of such intent >(LOGOS). > >I am glad for the points which "Sir Galahad" brought up, >because they point out the difference between essential vs >non-essential elements in arguments like this one. My warmest thanks to Blanc Weber for 'beating me to the punch' about 'Sir Galahad's' thoughtful analysis. His post is the sort of give and take which focuses debate and raises the level of intellectual discourse. Thank you, 'Sir Galahad' and Blanc Weber. I hope other posters to this list can emulate your examples. Logos out

1 0

Re: "Just call the police"...yeah, right
by logos 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Tue, 3 Dec 1996, Timothy C. May wrote: > Saying "just call the police" strikes me as being one of > the most absurd things I've ever heard on this list. > > (If I receive a "Logos-gram" warning me I am being > unpolite, you know where it'll go.) The name of the informal logical fallacy Tim May has *not* made is 'argumentum ad hominem' (literally, 'an argument to the man'; attacking one's opponent rather than dealing with the subject under discussion; aka name calling). Having said that, while Tim May has not committed a logical fallacy, neither has he advanced a logical argument. He has merely stated his conclusory opinion of the other person's comment. By itself, it adds little or nothing of substance to the argument. Logos out

1 0

Re: AOL
by AwakenToMe＠aol.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

yes.... they did knock off that $3.00 an hour thing. now.. $20.00 unlimited.. I'd hate to do an AOL spam to the list.. but someone asked.. and for all you that say 'get a real internet provider'. Well.. I get ALL the same access most of you do. No shell account...But I can telnet from AOL to one. So there. Nah nah nah =}

1 0

Re: Logos here
by logos 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM <dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com> wrote: > LOGOS <logos(a)c2.net> writes: > > > Sovereign collegues, > > You already sound like a jerk. Perhaps you should suspend judgment until you have the opportunity to evaluate the content of my posts. What are you antagonistic to the use of honorifics? > > I am Logos. I have adopted this pseudonym to conceal my > > 'true name'. I want the ideas which I shall be espousing > > to stand or fall on their own merits and not on the basis > > of biases that my name, sex, ethnicity, etc. might otherwise > > sexual preferences... Yes, that and other catagorizations which are irrelevant to the primary focus of this list. > That's right. You lack the decorum to spell either my > first name or my last name correctly. 'Decorum' has to do with polite behaviour. While I was certainly remiss in my hasty spelling of your name, it was not intentional, therefore not a lack of decorum. I do apologize for my negligence. I shall endeavor to spell you name correctly in the future. > "Cypher punks" are a gang of uncouth juveniles I'm not sure I understand the relevance of this comment. Was it made in response to my error in spelling? In any case, it is a good example of the informal logical fallacy of 'over generalization'. As I understand it, there are circa 1000 people subscribed to Cypherpunks. To paint an entire group with such a characterization is both illogical and unfair. I also question your use of the word 'uncouth'. I have seen no posts on Cypherpunks that were any more 'uncultured; crude; or boorish' than those posted by you. I am not saying that uncouth posts have not been made by others, but it is disingenuous for one to judge others by a standard that one does not apply to one's self. > What logic? "Cypher punks" such as Paul Bradley are incapable of > discussing a technical topic (such as Don Wood's IPG proposal) without > putting "(spit)" after Don's name I could be wrong, but I believe this was done as an intentional parody of your own similar posts. If it is illogical for Paul Bradley to do this, does it not follow that is was illogical when you did it as well? It is obvious to me that you are an intelligent person. I am concerned, however, with your apparent intellectual dishonesty. It would appear that you know perfectly well that your posts serve no purpose in the cause of promoting privacy through the use of cryptography. It is hard to draw any other conclusion then that you are intentionally being provocative for the purpose of disrupting the work of this list. If this is not so, I apologize, but how else can we judge your actions? Please step outside of yourself for a moment and give us an honest self-assessment of your behavior and the motives behind it. Respectfully yours, Logos out

2 1

No Subject
by Bovine Remailer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:18 PM 12/3/1996, Matthew J. Miszewski wrote: >At 01:45 PM 12/3/96 EST, Bovine Remailer wrote: >>At 10:50 AM 12/3/1996, Matthew J. Miszewski wrote: >>>Take, for example, the practice of redlining. How are people who live in >>>"bad" neighborhoods supposed to not reveal that information. >> >>You may lend your own money to whomever you wish. If you do not wish >>to lend money to somebody, that is your business. > >I consider it my business also, when people are denied opportunity because >of where they live. Why not simply disagree with me? You do not believe that people may lend their very own money, earned honestly, to anybody they please. If you are ashamed of that, change your mind. If you are not ashamed, proclaim it the world and justify it. >I may also hire whomever I wish, but I would have to pay the >consequences if I happened to discriminate based on a protected class >while doing so. That is the society in which I live. If I dont like >it, I try to change it. Our society is not libertarian. Current policy doesn't matter if we are discussing the wisdom or justice of possible policies. >If I would prefer that form of society I would have to accept that >result. Therefore I choose a balance between liberty and social >justice. It isn't clear to me whether you are discussing policy options or whether one should violate laws one does not like. When an action is illegal, it is still permissible to discuss its legalization. >There are times when government should intervene. I believe it >should be as infrequent as possible, but would not want to live in a >society where disinfranchised people have no possible recourse. Your >choice would apparently be different. Perhaps. In any event, it is important to understand precisely the mechanisms through which people are disenfranchised, if that is in fact what has happened. It is also important to understand the ramifications of phrases like "no possible recourse". To borrow money? It is safe to say that most poor people should be saving money rather than borrowing it. >>It is difficult to understand why redlining should be illegal, to the >>extent that it even occurs. When it does occur, we expect that eager >>entrepreneurs such as yourself will rush in to grab new customers. > >I have not heard serious doubts for a while that redlining occurs. It seems likely that people draw lines around certain areas and decide not to lend money there. What is less clear is that this is unreasonable. There may be a few good credit risks in poor neighborhoods. But, it may just be too much trouble weeding through the others to make it a paying business. It may also be the case that people lending money are behaving irrationally and drawing lines around neighborhoods for simple racial reasons and for no others. There is a word for this: opportunity. Bank of America was built by a man who perceived and exploited one such opportunity. Italian shop keepers in California could not get good banking services for, it turned out, irrational reasons. >I would love to have the financial wherewithal to startup such an >enterprise. Unfortuantely I reside in one such neighborhood. People start businesses without their own capital all the time. If there really is such a great opportunity, go find some rich people. Rich people, like other people, are always happy to hear about ways to make more money. They don't even have to put the money in for a long time. Once you've set up a package of mortgages, you can sell them off on the CMO market which is liquid and, I believe, quite colorblind. The beauty of this scheme is that you can take your profits right away and let other people take on the long term interest rate risk, default risk, and management hassles. This will make your plan easier to sell to investors. You might also look into the microlending market. The idea is to lend poor people small amounts of money (less than $10,000) to start businesses and the like. The default rates are claimed to be surprisingly low. I have my doubts, but it sounds as if you do not. Good luck. >It is difficult enough to raise money to run a small business (and >turned out to be much easier to do without any bank lending at all). >I have talked with people about starting their own banks. In principle, there is no reason at all why banks are the only institutions that can lend money for mortgages. There may be legal impediments, but then we are back to the actual culprit, the government. You might find that opening a bank was easier if all you had to do was take deposits and lend money rather than wading through the morass of legal requirements and paperwork. >When you are working to make sure all the bills are paid it is a bit >difficult to also build an entirely new socio-economic structure. You don't have to build an entirely new socio-economic structure. You just have to find some good credit risks, some people with money to lend, and put them together taking a cut for yourself, unless the government has thrown up some obstacles to this. >>Of course, we hardly live in a free banking era. Most people would >>prefer to bank with a company that respects their privacy. Yet, banks >>are so tightly controlled in the United States that they most often >>will not dare to protect the privacy of their customers for fear of >>regulatory consequences. When the service is provided, it cannot be >>advertised. > >Whom would the service be more readily available to? Who uses tax-havens? >Who has access to swiss bank accounts? Are you insinuating that my local >bank actually has anonymous accounts and just won't tell me? I wish that >people DID value anonymous banking in this country. The fact is they just >don't care. No, actually they do care, they just don't think (correctly) that they can get it easily. I have no idea if your local bank has "anonymous accounts". More probably, they have accounts for which they do not report transactions in excess of $10,000, but which are held by people they know fairly well. This is more common than you might think, and not just for laundering drug money. Tax evasion is widely practiced. >As long as they get short lines or myriads of ATM machines they are >happy. I am largely in favor of banking deregulation. There are >places where I simply draw the line. Utter racism is one of them. But wouldn't the racist banks be hurting their business? Doesn't the punishment go quite closely with the "crime"? If you believe that there is a huge opportunity which the racist banks (i.e., all of them) will not take advantage of, you had better explain why there is nobody anywhere with any capital who wouldn't want to make even more money off poor people. Can it really be the case that 99+% of rich people will run fleeing from such a great opportunity? Oh, and speaking of racism, where do wealthy African-Americans invest their money? >Everyone can now clamor that it just isnt true. Banks have never >discriminated. Its all a big lie. Whatever. Banks have practiced discrimination, and not just against black people. They have been able to get away with it. How? Because the government has protected the banking guild from competition. If opening a bank were as easy as forming a corporation, you would not see much discrimination, I assure you. There is no reason why a bank shouldn't be that easy to open. >(snip) >>You are in the unpleasant position of appealing for protection from >>the very people who have robbed you of your privacy. > >You are right. It is far from a perfect system. We make trade-offs every >day. Appeals to the very people who are exploiting you are not likely to meet with success, are they? >The real world I live in is just not as simple as the Libertarian Wet >Dream(TM). Then it should be fairly easy to refute my points instead making fatuous remarks such as the one above. Red Rackham

1 0

OPE_nup
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Two reports on BSA's letter Monday to Gore opposing crypto export regulations as "headed in the wrong direction." And claims the administration has "significantly backtracked" since announcing the new policy October 1. IBM, MS, et al are withdrawing earlier support for it. Without change, BSA said, encryption export policies will fail as did Administration policy of Clipper. ----- OPE_nup

1 0

Cool Website Check it out
by Wolf 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Check out my cool website at http://members.tripod.com/~wolf16

1 0

Angel and Javier can't unsubscribe!
by Timothy C. May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 5:46 PM -0400 12/3/96, Angel Luis Ortiz Ruiz wrote: > > Friend: Thank's for your asnswer but I already do that. The server say >that I'm not in the list but I still reacive the messages. Thankx And then there was another message: At 6:00 PM -0400 12/3/96, Javier Rivera wrote: > Friend: Thank's for your asnswer but I already do that. The >server say that I'm not in the list but I still reacive the messages. >Thankx again! Both seemed to come from "zeen(a)caribe.net". One under the Ruiz name, the other under the Rivera name. And similar messages, both in broken English. I suggest Angel and Javier get together and decide which one of them is the name they or it subscribed under, and use that. Oh, and I have a sneaking suspicion they sent in the increasingly-canonical "unsuscribe" or "unscribe" misspelling. I'm beginning to think that Cypherpunks appeals especially to morons. --Tim May To subscribe to the Cypherpunks mailing list: -send a message to: majordomo(a)toad.com -body message of: subscribe cypherpunks To unsubscribe from the Cypherpunks mailing list: -send a message to: majordomo(a)toad.com -body message of: unsubscribe cypherpunks

2 1

(no subject)
by Wolf 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

unsubscibe cypherpunks

1 0

Go to my website
by Wolf 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Games,links,and a hacking page under construction http://members.tripod.com/~wolf16

2 1

Re: testing
by lucifer＠dhp.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Tue, 3 Dec 1996, Eric Murray wrote: > Phiberelic Phreaker writes: > > > > PhReAkInG iS a ViOlEnT pOiSoN. iT cAnNoT Be ApPlIeD > > eXtErNaLlY tO aNiMaL oR hUmAn TiSsUe WiThOuT sErIoUs InJuRiOuS > > rEsUlTs. It CaNnOt Be TaKeN iNtErNaLlY wItHoUt InDuCiNg VoMiTtInG, > > bLiNdNeSs, AnD GeNeRaL pHySiCaLlY uLtImAtElLy ReSuLtInG iN dEaTh. > > PhReAk ThE pLaNeT--http://www.angelfire.com/ne/PhreakThePlanet/index.html > > > Evidently "PhReAkInG" causes uncontrollable ourbursts of CaPiTaLiZaTiOn due > to horrible shift-key spasms... > > > > PhIbErDeLiC PhReAkEr > > You probably want alt.2600, it'll be more your style. > BTW, you've posted the same fucking message 4 times now. > Plonk. 4 only? We have received over 30 copies of this shit.

1 0

RE: Modulating the FM noise spectrum considered infeasible
by Charley Musselman 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:38 AM 12/3/96 -0500, Bob Hettinga wrote: >At 9:52 am -0500 12/3/96, James A. Tunnicliffe wrote: >> At 2:55 am -0500 12/3/96, Timothy C. May wrote: >>> [...]Having said this, Johnson noise makes a superior noise source, > ^^^^^^^ >>> if a physical source is desired. ><snip> >>Yours makes NOISE? Impressive... >> >>In this case, I guess entropy is preferable to atrophy, though. :-) > >Indeed. > >I've found that my Johnson only makes noise with the proper, er, >peripheral, though... Geez, guys, what's this? Pound the physicist day? Johnson noise is the Brownian motion of electrons in an electronic circuit. It is the irreducible noise, often measured in temperature (obvious?) Cheers, Charley "We accomplish what we work at." | Rules from "We get better at what we practice." | childhood.

2 1

RE: IP address
by Internaut 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Even greater than denial of service I believe that there are other threats. Like I just found this file on c2.org (I believe it was) on using an IP address to explore somebody's hard drive under certain conditions. EXPORTING YOUR ENTIRE FILESYSTEM Samba When a Windows for Workgroups or Windows 95 machine shares any folder, bugs in Microsoft's SMB implementation over all network protocols allow access to the whole drive, with whatever permissions the sharename was given. These resources are advertised on a browse list that is made available to anyone on the local network by default, and to anyone on the Internet who knows the machine's IP address. Any user sharing any folder over TCP/IP without a password is opening the whole disk to the whole Internet (for those that can locate the machine) and those with a password should be aware that Windows has no protection against brute force attacks. SMBCLIENT, an ftp-style browser for any UNIX, plus a complete file system for Linux and a few UNIX versions, are available from the Samba web site. Please note that Samba's exploitation of this fundamental bug in Microsoft file sharing was unintentional, and was immediately reported to Microsoft. It could have happened with any client over any protocol. An alleged fix for Windows for Workgroups was quietly released in early October, and Microsoft publicly announced a fix for Win95 on October 20th. It has not been rigorously tested, but it appears to fix the problem. The fix for Windows for Workgroups might not be a complete fix, but rather a patch for one way to exploit the problem. (The release version of Win95 prevented cd .. below the shared folder "root," but not cd ../) The patches and Microsoft press releases (which have been corrected at least twice, but which still erroneously identify Samba as shareware, neglect to credit the people who notified Microsoft of the problem, and neglect to mention that this is a fundamental bug in Windows, not a problem specific to TCP/IP or Samba) are available on Microsoft's Windows 95 Updates Page. The patch only works on the US/English version of Windows 95; at this writing, all non-English versions of Windows 95 are still vulnerable. Troy Varange wrote: > Well, the "danger" of posting a static IP must be even > greater than with a temporary IP. > > Just call the police if you uncover a bonafide case of a > denial of service attack. From what I gather, they take > this shit seriously, and have better capacities of > getting lazy admins to reveal the relevent data in their > logs. I just have this gut feeling that sitting out here without any protection somebody could write something that could hook into a program, or even worse the system (i.e. Explorer). Perhaps my fears are totally unfounded (besides above problem w/ samba), but I have not heard anyone say that one *is* secure. -- Internaut PS: I am running win95 but feel free to answer this question for any os.

1 0

Sorry for the "TWIT" messages
by William H. Geiger III 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi, Well seems I had a rather intresting morining. :) After receiving several "Phreak messages I went to modify my "twit" scripts. Unfortunatly the changes I made caused ~50 "twit" messages to go out. My appologies to anyone who received these messages. Thanks, -- ----------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii Geiger Consulting WebExplorer & Java Enhanced!!! Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of PGPMR2 - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice Look for MR/2 Tips & Rexx Scripts Get Work Place Shell for Windows!! PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. Finger whgiii(a)amaranth.com for PGP Key and other info ----------------------------------------------------------- *MR/2 ICE: OS/2: Logic, not magic.

1 0

Re: more IPG and random numbers
by Clay Olbon II 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 09:24 PM 12/3/96 -0800, Eric Murray wrote: >I did some more experiments with the IPG stream-cipher >algorithim and random number tests. Since IPG claim that their >algorithim passes chi-square tests of randomness, I found >a chi-square test program. It's written by Peter Boucher >and was posted to sci.crypt in '93 (<2bum8sINN98j(a)roche.csl.sri.com>). Eric, The chi-square test is fairly easy to implement. Understanding the alogrithm and interpreting what the test results mean is as important as a proper implementation. An excellent text that covers testing PRNGs (including, chi-square, KS, runs (up, down, above & below the mean), and autocorrelation) is Simulation Modeling & Analysis, by Law & Kelton. >> Does the 'runs up' (or 'runs down') test with run-length equal to two >> get me anything over the standard chi-square test? I left it in. Yes. It tests yet another aspect of "is the data truly random?" >First I ran the output from my version of the IPG algorithim that I >posted a couple days ago : > >% ./boucher < ipg.out >Occurances: n = 12000000, V=-8375833.71 >Character occurances non-random >Successions: n = 46875, V=62287.82 >Character successions non-random Unless the V is a typo, there is an error in the code. The chi-square statistic can never be negative. >Then I ran output from a test RNG that's basically a loop around random(): > >% ./boucher < myrandom/out >Occurances: n = 3414720, V=213050.62 >Character occurances non-random >Successions: n = 13338, V=1143.41 >Character successions non-random I did considerable testing on random() a while back. It is actually quite good at producing a uniform distribution. There were other problems however (notably autocorrelation in triplets). >Eric Murray ericm(a)lne.com ericm(a)motorcycle.com http://www.lne.com/ericm >PGP keyid:E03F65E5 fingerprint:50 B0 A2 4C 7D 86 FC 03 92 E8 AC E6 7E 27 29 AF I suggest you take a look at the chi-square program and check it for errors. Based on the above observations, I am a little suspicious of your results. As a side note, I tend to test PRNGs using stream lengths that are similar to what I will need in a real use of the generator. I also test multiple seeds, because statistically, some seeds will fail. Of course, testing multiple seeds has its own problems (see the bonferroni inequality) of which most non-statisticians are unaware. I have been curious for a while about developing a statistical test that would examine the expected number of failures of a repeated statistical test. Haven't had the time to look into it yet though - not enough hours in the day. ******************************************************* Clay Olbon olbon(a)ix.netcom.com engineer, programmer, statistitian, etc. **********************************************tanstaafl

2 1

No Subject
by logos 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dimitri Vulis wrote: > Lame losers who call themselves "cypher punks" and bend > over for John Gilmore. It is obvious that you, Dimitri Vulis, intend to be disruptive to the operation of this list. I have politely asked you several specific questions about your motives. I am politely asking you again, Dimitri Vulis, why are you unwilling to rationally and politely discuss whatever grievances you have with specific Cypherpunks? I believe you are capable of rational discourse, you allegedly have some academic credentials so you must have a passing familiarity with formal debate. Why are you unwilling to join this discussion with anything other than immature insults? If the facts are on your side, a reasonable demeanor can only enhance your arguments. If the facts are not on your side, why can you not graciously admit you are wrong and withdraw your accusations. I have been unfailingly polite to you. Do you have it within your character to respond to me in kind? Thank you for your attentions to this matter. Logos out

4 4

[NO CRYPTO] Recommended reading.
by Peter Trei 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The current (Dec 2) issue of Forbes is a special - the cover article is 'Cyber power gives financial markets a veto over the President and Congress', by Peter Huber. This has already been covered in this list. However, the real prize is a second complete magazine included with the Forbes in a plastic bag - the premiere issue of Forbes ASAP: "The Big Issue - Where do we go from here?", which contains 53 essays from various commentators on the significance and future of the techno revolution. I haven't finished it yet, but found the essays by Tom Wolfe on the social implications of neuroscience and Mark Helprin on life's accelerating pace superb. Other authors include: Gingrich, Fukuyama, Nader, Simon Schama, Rifkin, Esther Dyson, Al Goldstein, Buckley, Paglia, Gates, Negroponte,, Richard Leakey, Steven Weinberg, Brokaw, Limbaugh, Huber, and George Gilder, among others. Highly recommended! Peter Trei Senior Software Engineer Purveyor Development Team Process Software Corporation http://www.process.com trei(a)process.com

1 0

Copyright violations
by alzheimer＠juno.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Bank Mutual Fund Report: December 2, 1996 Consumer Bankers Association Adopts Privacy Guidelines The Consumer Bankers Association has adopted a set of voluntary "best practice" privacy guidelines that it will offer members for use in structuring their own consumer financial privacy programs. This is becoming especially important as banking regulators continue to scrutinize banks' sales practices of investment products and insurance. In a related announcement, CBA said that it has scheduled an information workshop for Dec. 9, where member banks will discuss the implementation of privacy guidelines and other steps that can be taken to improve customer privacy protection. In adopting the guidelines, CBA stressed that customer confidentiality is a long-standing and essential principle of banking; but it noted that developments in technology have made it easier for financial institutions and other companies to collect, store and analyze data relating to their customers. The guidelines are intended to help member banks keep their privacy policies in step with these advances in technology. "Our director of government relations, Marcia Sullivan, worked closely with a committee of Board members for more than a year to design these guidelines," said Joe Belew, president of the Consumer Bankers Association. "All of us are proud that their efforts have put our industry in the forefront of the drive to keep pace with technology in protecting consumer privacy." "We worked closely with privacy, marketing, and database experts to give our industry this blueprint for consumer privacy," said Pam Flaherty, a member of CBA's Board of Directors and a senior vice president of Citibank. "We are confident that these guidelines will enable our members to continue delivering top-quality service and choice, while maintaining the trust of consumers." The announcement of the new guidelines was welcomed by experts who study issues surrounding consumer privacy. "I applaud CBA for taking this first, industry-wide step to further protect customers' privacy," said Alan Westin, professor of public law and government at Columbia. "These guidelines should give consumer bankers a solid foundation on which to base their future privacy protections, especially as they move toward new consumer financial products such as smart cards, money cards, and Internet banking." The CBA workshop on customer information is being conducted in partnership with the Washington law firm of Morrison & Foerster. The one-day session will be attended by retail bankers, compliance managers and database marketing managers of the member banks. "Consumer privacy concerns are an understandable result of the advent of virtual information systems," said L. Richard Fischer, a partner with Morrison & Foerster and author of "The Law of Financial Privacy," adding that, "this is clearly the time to champion such industry-wide guidelines." Houston Chronicle: Sunday, December 1, 1996 Gtech Loss 'Significant'; Penalties Light in Welfare Card Launch BY POLLY ROSS HUGHES Persistent problems with the Lone Star card -- widely credited for cutting food-stamp fraud -- could have cost the company behind it $ 7 million in penalties had state officials not let it off the hook. Despite losing a ""significant'' amount of money during the first year of operation, Transactive Corp., a subsidiary of the controversial lottery operator Gtech Corp., insists that Texas' Lone Star card for welfare and food stamp benefits is a model of success. Likewise, Comptroller John Sharp last month sent out a press release calling the statewide launch a year ago "a successful experiment in welfare reform. '' But a box full of documents obtained under the Public Information Act tells the darker side of what Texas Department of Human Services spokeswoman Jessica Shahin calls the ""yin-yang'' of government contracts. The Lone Star card is the nation's first grand-scale system to issue welfare benefits through a private technology company. The card, which resembles a credit card, replaces food stamps at the grocery store and can be used to withdraw welfare benefits. Use of the card could be expanded to include unemployment insurance, child support collections and other government payments. Texas is also the first and largest state planning to privatize the screening of welfare applicants. State officials intend to arrange a much larger, $ 2 billion contract with a private company to handle that job. But a look behind the scenes of the Lone Star card could prove helpful as the state moves toward more public-private partnerships. The history of the contract shows what can happen when the state tries to do too much too quickly with too little money. Just as the statewide start-up was about to begin, problems with the card's help line for retailers and customers were so bad that DHS officials cut off payment to Transactive for three months. "The Lone Star Help Desk continues to function at an unacceptable level,'' Bob Ambrosino, DHS' director for the project, wrote to Transactive officials at the time. "One thing is quite clear. Transactive is not providing the level of service promised in the contract. '' To make matters worse, the start-up months were marred by several system shutdowns and technical glitches that made it impossible to process Lone Star sales electronically. Several grocers complained of lost sales, and customers went home with less food as a result. Grocers could ring up $ 50 with handwritten vouchers, but only if they got approval via the help line. If they couldn't get through, they could ring up sales of no more than $ 25 -- "extremely risky transactions subject to fraud,'' Ambrosino said. Complaints rolled in. Among them: A grocer in Midland said he tried unsuccessfully all day to get through to the help line. ""He stated the phone rings and rings -- he literally let it ring over 100 times -- and no one picks it up,'' reports say. The Lone Star system shut down for 10 days near Christmas at Big B Food Store in Karnes City, but the help desk repeatedly advised the owner to unplug the machine and try again later. This didn't work. When the grocer finally asked to speak to a supervisor, the help desk hung up on him -- twice. In San Antonio, a retailer said he tried for five months to get a terminal installed. He called the help desk four times seeking the equipment and each time was told it would arrive in a week. It never did. DHS itself complained of several breaches of the contract terms, including Transactive reports that were habitually late, inaccurate and sometimes incomprehensible. ""This was an extremely ambitious project. It had a very short time frame,'' Ambrosino said in a recent interview. "The complexity, the size and the time frame all added to the risk. '' The other obstacle was skimpy funding, stemming from federal and state requirements that the Lone Star card system had to cost the same as the old paper food stamp system. The contract is worth about $ 224 million over seven years. Three bids were made for the contract, coming from Transactive, Deluxe Data Systems with EDS, and Citibank with Lockheed Martin. "All three vendors had a problem with the fact that we had a limited amount of money,'' Ambrosino said. "The bids all came in too high and we had to start all over. '' In the second round, Transactive prevailed. "Absolutely, no question, hands down, it was the best bid,'' Ambrosino said. "It provided the most services for the amount of money that was available. '' One of Transactive's promises that proved decisive in winning the contract, records show, was a superior help line. The outcome of the bidding drew formal protests from Deluxe Data Systems, which argued that Transactive's lack of experience should have disqualified it. Since awarding the contract, DHS officials have documented more than $ 7 million in fines they could have assessed because of Transactive's mistakes, but the agency never did so. Ambrosino said his contract management team chose instead to hold the possibility of penalties over Transactive as an incentive to improve while the system was relatively new. He also said that DHS withheld $ 6 million in payments to the company during the statewide start-up as an alternative to actual fines. As the company made improvements, DHS reinstated the held-up payments in early 1996. However, last week, after inquiries from the Houston Chronicle, DHS decided to fine Transactive $ 345,300 for foul-ups occurring in May, June and July. Assessing the damages had been recommended as early as Oct. 8 in an internal memo to Ambrosino from Hank Dembosky, DHS' Lone Star contract manager. Nearly half of the fine is related to an AT&T network failure on July 11, a problem that set off a chain of negative reactions. Retailers again had to process Lone Star sales manually but couldn't get quick enough authorizations, resulting in lost sales and "associated inconveniences. '' Finally, with a flood of retailers dialing the help line for authorizations, calls from cardholders with questions were abandoned. The fine includes $ 60,000 for slower system response times than the federal government requires, a failure that has occurred every month since the Lone Star card went statewide. Additionally, there is a penalty of $ 135,300 for late or inaccurate reports. Meanwhile, Transactive reported "significant'' losses for the fiscal year ending in February 1996 and predicted more losses to come in the current fiscal year. Parent company Gtech's most recent annual report points to investments exceeding $ 61 million for electronic benefits systems to support its business in Texas and start-ups in Illinois and Mississippi. Transactive received $ 24 million from Texas in the state's fiscal year that ended in August, said Shahin, the DHS spokeswoman. Gtech's report to stockholders says Transactive plans to increase sales, cut costs and line up more business in other states. If the plan fails to turn the losses around ""within a reasonable'' time, the company would consider a joint venture. Failing that, Gtech could be required to recognize a loss on part of its Transactive investment. Transactive is betting on a dual strategy to make its start-up investments pay off, said company spokesman Marc Palazzo. First, it is banking on the Texas contract as a selling point for winning similar contracts in other states. Transactive also hopes to snare more business should Texas expand the government benefits it distributes through the Lone Star card. Transactive won't say how much of its Lone Star investment went toward solving major problems. But Ambrosino said he believes the company was forced to pour millions into perfecting the system. "Certainly there have been problems that have developed during the implementation of this system,'' said Palazzo. ""This is a new system. In a project of this size those issues are to be expected. I think the program is working, and that is the bottom line. ''

1 0

test
by jamie＠comet.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

'scuse the spam.... jamie ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ jamie dyer Send empty message to jamie(a)comet.net | Comet.Net | pgpkey(a)comet.net | Charlottesville, Va. | for pgp public key. | (804)295-2407 | | http://www.comet.net | "Linux perceiveth of The Dos, the Dos perceiveth not of the Linux." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 0

no subject (file transmission)
by captain.sarcastic 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>From cypherpunks-errors(a)toad.com Wed Dec 4 11:22:29 1996 Received: from RES2.RESNET.UPENN.EDU (root(a)RES2.RESNET.UPENN.EDU [130.91.195.242]) by mail1.panix.com (8.7.5/8.7.1/PanixM1.0+) with ESMTP id LAA14598 for <kkoller(a)panix.com>; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:22:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from poboxer.pobox.com (poboxer.pobox.com [207.8.188.2]) by RES2.RESNET.UPENN.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA13349 for <kkoller(a)RES2.RESNET.UPENN.EDU>; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:23:19 -0500 Received: from toad.com (toad.com [140.174.2.1]) by poboxer.pobox.com (8.7.6/8.7.1) with ESMTP id LAA24598 for <kkoller(a)sarcasm.com>; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:21:08 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA12176 for cypherpunks-outgoing; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 04:34:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from uu.psi.com (uu.psi.com [136.161.128.3]) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA12170 for <cypherpunks(a)toad.com>; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 04:34:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by uu.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.061193-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; id AA25881 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 96 07:26:15 -0500 Received: by bwalk.dm.com (1.65/waf) via UUCP; Wed, 04 Dec 96 06:51:51 EST for cypherpunks(a)toad.com To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Subject: Re: Anyone considered adding crypto into Microsoft Outlook? From: dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Comments: All power to the ZOG! Message-Id: <9PueyD62w165w(a)bwalk.dm.com> Date: Wed, 04 Dec 96 06:50:07 EST In-Reply-To: <01BBE14A.04580F10(a)crecy.ai.mit.edu> Organization: Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y. Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com Precedence: bulk "Phillip M. Hallam-Baker" <hallam(a)ai.mit.edu> writes: > It just struck me that it would probably make the most convenient = > platform for integrating cryptography. After all MAPI is an open, = > extensible API allowing ready access to the email "hooks" necessary. The = > integration of an address book with the email system makes it very easy = > to add public key information into a person's entry. Yes, this would be feasible. Problem is, "cypher punks" don't write code. They only write flames and postmaster complaints. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

1 0

[Noise]RE: Modulating the FM noise spectrum considered infeasible
by James A. Tunnicliffe 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Charley Musselman writes: >At 10:38 AM 12/3/96 -0500, Bob Hettinga wrote: >>At 9:52 am -0500 12/3/96, James A. Tunnicliffe wrote: >>> At 2:55 am -0500 12/3/96, Timothy C. May wrote: >>>> [...]Having said this, Johnson noise makes a superior noise source, >> ^^^^^^^ >>>> if a physical source is desired. >><snip> >>>Yours makes NOISE? Impressive... >>> >>>In this case, I guess entropy is preferable to atrophy, though. :-) >> >>Indeed. >> >>I've found that my Johnson only makes noise with the proper, er, >>peripheral, though... > >Geez, guys, what's this? Pound the physicist day? Johnson noise >is the Brownian motion of electrons in an electronic circuit. It >is the irreducible noise, often measured in temperature (obvious?) >Cheers, Charley And to think some folks perceive physicists as lacking a sense of humor... Johnson (n., [vulgar slang]) A euphemism for penis. joke (n. [L. jocus]) 1. Anything said or done to arouse laughter, as a humorous anecdote 2. a thing done or said merely in fun Tunny (steadfastly resisting any temptation to attempt humorous comment on "Brownian motion") ====================================================================== James A. Tunnicliffe | WWWeb: http://www.inference.com/~tunny Inference Corporation | PGP Fingerprint: CA 23 E2 F3 AC 2D 0C 77 tunny(a)Inference.com | 36 07 D9 33 3D 32 53 9C ====================================================================== begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(A\0`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`06 `P`.````S <,``0` M" `5`!P``P`?`0$@@ ,`#@```,P'# `$``@`%0`=``,`( $!"8 !`"$````P M.39&131!,#!&-$1$,#$Q.3,P0S P04$P,$$U1C8P1 `:!P$-@ 0``@````(` M`@`!!( !`$(```!;3F]I<V5=4D4Z($UO9'5L871I;F<@=&AE($9-(&YO:7-E M('-P96-T<G5M(&-O;G-I9&5R960@:6YF96%S:6)L90`2& $#D 8`U <``!H` M```#`"8```````,`-@``````'@!P``$````W````36]D=6QA=&EN9R!T:&4@ M1DT@;F]I<V4@<W!E8W1R=6T@8V]N<VED97)E9"!I;F9E87-I8FQE```"`7$` M`0```!L````!N^'D]7.@Y&PV30\1T),,`*H`I?8-``4RJ;<``P`N```````# M``80&<2TJ ,`!Q!;! ``'@`($ $```!E````0TA!4DQ%64U54U-%3$U!3E=2 M251%4SI!5#$P.C,X04TQ,B\S+SDV+3 U,# L0D]"2$545$E.1T%74D]413I! M5#DZ-3)!32TP-3 P,3(O,R\Y-BQ*04U%4T%454Y.24-,249&10`````#`! 0 M``````,`$1 ``````@$)$ $```"B! ``G@0``-$'``!,6D9UB!)=P_\`"@$/ M`A4"I /D!>L"@P!0$P-4`@!C: K <V5T;C(&``;#`H,R!$8"`'!P<G$Q( A5 M![("@S.7`\8'$P*#-!4/9C4#Q4,3@Q(B<W1E;0* ?1<*@ C/"=D[&9\R-34/ M`H *@0VQ"V!N9S$PWC,4\ L*$O$+\F,`0!/@41'!;&5Y!=!U!!!EFFP#@G<% M$!AP<SH*A8P^005 ', Z,S@5< )-(+ R+S,O.38`("TP-3 P+""@0F]B($@2 M`'0+@'1G81^1;QAP( <@@CGD.C42(&%M(<0A1B(@!DHD@ >102X@5'62;@,` M8VP&D&9E(P[6/A5P!4 R)$ U)'\B("L'82,P:![@0R8036$G'N F_B?@6RXK MP%U()&%V(L$@<PMP9"!G*> $`"6!;V@`@ (@(-QN;P0`)M `P&L'D2+P^'-U M< 9Q!;$MI"U@"'!H8V4L(W<@,'\Q!EYO,A0J^@:0+E%P*? `D&-_!T O93,P M!" -L "0&:$N22-W/',#`' ^)UA9!PAA!" N!$Y/25-%<C\Q`$EM$Z 'D "0 M=FYE*\$G6"=820.@+,(@QS/@$? B($D@9PI0!!'U"?!T`V!P'N TD3@Q)L#N M<@&@'L LL&\H<#NB*? G(B IX A@9V@F$" Z_"TI(W<C=SH@#; U&C[X^B<X MD" "$"9 +*(]$"WP]Q[@+28"(&P>X"X$+:0#\/\IX"RQ)M 3H#O !) B($2A M[R-W+J(SD#QQ;#V'.,@@%GI'">!Z(B [(!A0(B!WW4'1)P0@+,(WX5!!=41! M]S.C! `%0&0J8#?A+2L@%NLTD40B0@-@=P,``Y$IP?\NT$*A,U ?0 60.Z$& M,0N /RAP`Z!.)B9P.I T\&-U<Q_ /@%)=$P--/ 9H75_2H \HBVC(B!-\!AP M36%E_SJP"' )@$ZR&'$NH3T04U'$"@B4"P@"&!)4#Y7'H"_"> 1X"(@'G8* MA0J%04&2<SSP+,%N:R]A!X!!46S^:SP1!) OL#B!2B@N000@^0M@8VLL,BYA M"?!+YTWQ=&AU!&!R.+@*A2TF*(1N+B(@6W9U;"+@Y07 <QR"72D5<#MP+I#] M1#!M! `HD (0!< NH ,`<G,U-FIO+B!=XBN@3-<F$&$04 !S7Q$Q)A!7D.YY M6 (L506Q9 (@/,0#8/\?$";0"V ]T1AP1/<Q`5I1_R+P7!-4X4[A!9!CH!AP M,0#^,B80(O!BQ&.C!;$L<P> ]QF@0N%.P68F0%:$C)6IJ(H&&%A9&8ZL'1" MX?\X04J16L-BH%/#`9!-HSSC]VSC9@@%H&T'@ (P6W8#H.HB3/TB/E8]<7]R MCW.?/72O/64F):\FLC$`?"!B5W?@96(Z7 `"0'#0.B\O=WC +@N /&'+"? O ML"YNT2]^5$!JF.<X`'D6$^%R< 6P;31WL>!01U @1B+!!) 3H!T+@'1X,%8A M7T R,R!*11(@1GW 04,H($1D(#!^4#<W929Y\T"_>L=YDC$"=\" _X$@,R&P M8# W($0Y(a)B!]P#.5?H S$B U?< Y0W$/OX2OA;^&SW5.5KP8P0"*````0 `Y M`"#VV#/_X;L!`P#Q/PD$```"`4<``0```#(```!C/553.V$](#MP/4EN9F5R M96YC93ML/4Q!3D1252TY-C$R,#0Q-C(Q,CA:+3$S,C0X`````@'Y/P$```!* M`````````-RG0,C 0A :M+D(`"LOX8(!`````````"]//4E.1D5214Y#12]/ M53U.3U9!5$\O0TX]4D5#25!)14Y44R]#3CU454Y.60```!X`^#\!````%0`` M`$IA;65S($$N(%1U;FYI8VQI9F9E``````(!^S\!````2@````````#<IT#( MP$(0&K2Y" `K+^&"`0`````````O3SU)3D9%4D5.0T4O3U4]3D]6051/+T-. M/5)%0TE0245.5%,O0TX]5%5.3ED````>`/H_`0```!4```!*86UE<R!!+B!4 M=6YN:6-L:69F90````! ``<P<#5O//KANP% ``@PX-Y -/_ANP$#``TT_3\` M``(!%#0!````$ ```%24H< I?Q ;I8<(`"LJ)1<>`#T``0````$````````` M"P`I```````+`",```````(!?P`!````40```#QC/553)6$]7R5P/4EN9F5R M96YC925L/4Q!3D1252TY-C$R,#0Q-C(Q,CA:+3$S,C0X0&QA;F1R=2YN;W9A 8=&\N:6YF97)E;F-E,BYC;VT^`````,I+ ` end

1 0

no subject (file transmission)
by captain.sarcastic 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>From cypherpunks-errors(a)toad.com Wed Dec 4 11:52:55 1996 Received: from RES2.RESNET.UPENN.EDU (root(a)RES2.RESNET.UPENN.EDU [130.91.195.242]) by mail2.panix.com (8.7.5/8.7.1/PanixM1.0) with ESMTP id LAA08214 for <kkoller(a)panix.com>; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:52:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from serve.com (serve.com [206.1.57.2]) by RES2.RESNET.UPENN.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA15135 for <kkoller(a)RES2.RESNET.UPENN.EDU>; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:54:19 -0500 Received: from toad.com (toad.com [140.174.2.1]) by serve.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA32480 for <kkoller(a)sarcasm.com>; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:47:45 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA12660 for cypherpunks-outgoing; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 05:30:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from uu.psi.com (uu.psi.com [136.161.128.3]) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA12644 for <cypherpunks(a)toad.com>; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 05:30:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by uu.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.061193-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; id AA29852 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 96 08:20:12 -0500 Received: by bwalk.dm.com (1.65/waf) via UUCP; Wed, 04 Dec 96 08:11:41 EST for cypherpunks(a)toad.com To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Subject: Re: Angel and Javier can't unsubscribe! From: dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Comments: All power to the ZOG! Message-Id: <PgyeyD69w165w(a)bwalk.dm.com> Date: Wed, 04 Dec 96 08:10:48 EST In-Reply-To: <v03007801aecae3e3d400(a)[207.167.93.63]> Organization: Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y. Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com Precedence: bulk "Timothy C. May" <tcmay(a)got.net> writes: <Racist garbage, this time directed at Hispanics> > I'm beginning to think that Cypherpunks appeals especially to morons. > > --Tim May Me too. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

1 0