December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Partner with Dr's to Earn a Dr's Salary
by robbieg＠mich.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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FTC Online Privacy Report
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The Federal Trade Commission released yesterday: "Consumer Privacy on the Global Information Infrastructure" http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/privacy/privacy1.htm Reuters 1-6-97: The Federal Trade Commission, which last year held a conference on privacy issues, said participants at the gathering agreed that businesses have four ways to protect consumer privacy: -- Notify consumers about how personal information collected online is used. -- Give consumers a choice about whether and how their personal information is used. -- Ensure the security of personal information is protected. -- Give consumers access to their own personal information to ensure its accuracy.

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Internet Draft : keyserver protocol
by David K. Merriman 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: coderpunks(a)toad.com Date: Tue Jan 07 08:15:10 1997 My proposal for a realtime keyserver protocol/system has been made available. I would welcome any comments/discussion regarding it. It may be found at: ds.internic.net/internet-drafts/draft-merriman-realtime-key-00.txt Dave Merriman -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMtGxtMVrTvyYOzAZAQFsVQP+LpTOyQjdNH3dMpUBG0DMHQ8jIM+cENs+ nK+r/9uKYAWKHkTwENNHwIn9mwxKi2GhgnXdJf7zUMdkNgK2w6Im7yOHzMhsZFfm KQJlY+qzQbNOdf+LjOnbhy16u0h/0zgP6+NzITFqeXOToGC9KkImWmdaROe+enIX 3v1LYz4jHEM= =tIT+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Double crypt strength
by Rick Osborne 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 04:33 PM 1/6/97 -0800, Toto wrote: > Pardon my ignorance, but I seem to be missing something here. > If you use an encryption as your password, do you not need to 'store' >it somewhere in order to use it in the future (to 'pass' it to the >decryption program)? I was thinking something as simple as running crypt and then the next thing you do is run passwd. That way, the encrypted string will probably still be right there on the screen (assuming your passwd util doesn't clear the screen first). Granted, it still means that you have to remember a pseudo-random string, but the string is always one step away if you used a logical password/phrase to generate it. Sorry, I guess I wasn't too clear on that (fingers can't keep up with the mind and all that...) -Rick Rick Osborne / osborne(a)gateway.grumman.com / Northrop Grumman Corporation ------------------------------------------------------------------------- "And when exactly did all this happen?" 'When we rewrote the dictionary.'

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Polymorph engine (was:RE: PWL's how ?)
by Mullen Patrick 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Where did you get the following text on polymorph engines? Is it available somewhere? Where can I get other information on similar topics (Please resist the urge to mention web search engines; I'm looking for specific recommendations :-) Thanks! - Patrick _______________________________________________________________________________ From: Neil Tunnicliffe on Tue, Jan 7, 1997 6:08 Read this for an understanding of a polymorhphic virus: E#234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234#>> #188# A GENERAL DESCRIPTION OF THE METHODS BEHIND A POLYMORPH ENGINE #188# E#234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234##234#* A small glossary of terms: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA ENCRYPT = Transform from it's original form to an altered form. DECRYPT = Transform from it's altered form to it's original form. KEY = The register or value used to encrypt/decrypt with. SLIDING KEY = A KEY value that is INCREASED or DECREASED on each loop. COUNT = The number of bytes in the encrypted code or data. INDEX = A pointer to the encrypted code or data. SIGNATURE = A unique group of bytes that can be used to check against a programs content in the hope of detecting a particular program. HEURISTIC = A set of well defined rules to apply to a problem in the hope of achieving a known result. Question: What is a Polymorph? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Answer: Well, the Longman English Dictionary defines it as: "POLYMORPHOUS also POLYMORPHIC adj fml or tech. EXISTING IN VARIOUS DIFFERENT FORMS." In other words, something that has the ability to change it's shape. Other ways to describe such a thing might be; Mutable, Metamorphic, Etc... Question: What is a Polymorph Engine? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Answer: A program with the abilities to encrypt (or jumble up) another program or data and provide a unique decryptor for it, it must do this in such a way that no two encryptions of the same program or data will look alike. Example: Take the following ultra-simple decryptor: MOV SI,jumbled_data ;Point to the jumbled data MOV CX,10 ;Ten bytes to decrypt main_loop: XOR BYTE PTR [SI],55 ;XOR (un_scramble!) a byte INC SI ;Next byte LOOP main_loop ;Loop for the 9 remaining bytes This small program will XOR the ten bytes at the location pointed to by SI with the value 55. Providing the ten bytes were XORed with 55 prior to running this decryptor the ten bytes will be restored to their original state. If you are unsure as to why this is, brush up on your XOR logic!! Ok, so you might say that if you change the KEY value on each generation it will become Polymorphic? Well, yes and no! If you did that, the encrypted portion would be Polymorphic, but the decryptor would still remain mostly the same, the only change begin the KEY value! So, a signature scanner that allows WILDCARDS (and most do!) would still be able to find your decryptor! One way you could fool some signature scanners is to swap around some of the instructions. So, with this in mind, the above decryptor might look like: MOV CX,10 MOV SI,jumbled_data main_loop: XOR BYTE PTR [SI],55 INC SI LOOP main_loop As you can see, still not much of a change, not really enough to fool some of the better signature scanners. "GET TO THE POINT! WHAT IS A TRUE POLYMORPH?", I hear you cry! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Well, a "true" Polymorph would be a decryptor that looks completely different on each generation! Take the following decryptor: MOV CX,10 NOP NOP MOV SI,jumbled_data NOP main_loop: NOP NOP XOR BYTE PTR [SI],55 NOP INC SI NOP NOP NOP NOP LOOP main_loop This decryptor is the same as the one before it, but it has has a few random NOP instructions peppered throughout itself. On each generation you would vary the amount of NOPs after each instruction. This is a Polymorph in it's simplest form. Still, most of the good signature scanners would have no problem with such a simple Polymorph. They would simply skip the NOPs, thus having a clear view of the decryptor, to which they could apply a signature! No, a "true" Polymorph has to be far far more complex then this! Instead of peppering NOPs throughout the decryptor it would pepper totally random amounts of totally random 8086 instructions, including JUMPS and CALLS. It would also use a different main decryptor (possibly from a selection of pre-coded ones) and would alter all the registers that the decryptor uses on each generation, making sure that the JUNK code that it generates doesn't destroy any of the registers used by the real decryptor! So, with these rules in mind, here is our simple decryptor again: MOV DX,10 ;Real part of the decryptor! MOV SI,1234 ;junk AND AX,[SI+1234] ;junk CLD ;junk MOV DI,jumbled_data ;Real part of the decryptor! TEST [SI+1234],BL ;junk OR AL,CL ;junk main_loop: ADD SI,SI ;junk instruction, real loop! XOR AX,1234 ;junk XOR BYTE PTR [DI],55 ;Real part of the decryptor! SUB SI,123 ;junk INC DI ;Real part of the decryptor! TEST DX,1234 ;junk AND AL,[BP+1234] ;junk DEC DX ;Real part of the decryptor! NOP ;junk XOR AX,DX ;junk SBB AX,[SI+1234] ;junk AND DX,DX ;Real part of the decryptor! JNZ main_loop ;Real part of the decryptor! As you should be able to see, quite a mess!! But, still executable code. It is essential that any junk code generated by the Polymorph Engine is executable, as it is going to be peppered throughout the decryptor. Note, in this example, that some of the junk instructions use registers that we are using in the decryptor! This is fine, providing the values in these registers aren't destroyed. Also note, that now we have random registers and random instructions on each generation it makes signature scanning (even for the clever signature scanners) impossible! Instead, an HEURISTIC method must be used, which can lead to false alarms. So, a Polymorph Engine can be summed up into three major parts: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 1 .. The random number generator. 2 .. The junk code generator. 3 .. The decryptor generator. There are other discrete parts but these three are the ones where most of the work goes on! How does it all work? Well, SMEG goes about generating random decryptors in the following way: 1 .. Chooses a random selection of registers to use for the decryptor. Leaving the remaining registers as "junk" registers for the junk code generator. 2 .. Chooses one of the compressed pre-coded decryptors. 3 .. Goes into a loop generating the real decryptor, peppered with junk code. To understand how the selected registers are slotted into the decryptors and the junk code you must look at the 8086 instructions from a binary level: XOR AX,AX = 00110001 11000000 XOR AX,CX = 00110001 11001000 XOR AX,DX = 00110001 11010000 XOR AX,BX = 00110001 11011000 You should be able to see a pattern in the binary code for these four 8086 instructions? Well, all 8086 instructions follow logical patterns, and it is these patterns that tell the 8086 processor which registers/addressing mode to use for a particular instruction. The total amount of instruction formats and the precise logic regarding the patterns is too complex to go into here. However, all good 8086 tutorials/reference guides will explain in full. SMEG exploits this pattern logic to generate junk code and decryptors with random registers, as the patterns directly relate to the registers Etc. SMEG generates junk code in the following way: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Inside SMEG there is a table of the basic binary patterns for all of the 8086 instruction set, but with one important difference, all the register/address mode bits are zero. This is called the SKELETON INSTRUCTION TABLE. The table also contains various other bytes used by SMEG to determine the relevant bit positions to "plug in" the register bit patterns. These patterns are plugged in via the logic processes OR and AND. Using this method, SMEG can generate endless amounts of random 8086 instructions without destroying any of the registers used by the decryptor proper. SMEG also contains some discrete logic for producing false CALLS to dummy subroutines and also false conditional JMPS around the junk code. SMEG generates the decryptor proper in the following way: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Inside SMEG there is a table containing a selection of common 8086 instructions used in decryptors, such as XOR [index],reg Etc. These are, again, stored in SKELETON FORM with some control bytes used by the decryptor generator. Also, inside SMEG, there are several pre-coded decryptors stored in a compressed form. On average, a complete decryptor can be described to the decryptor generator in as few as 11 bytes and adding to the list of pre-coded decryptors is both painless and economical with space! SMEG generates the Polymorphed decryptor in the following way: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA First it chooses, at random, one of the pre-coded compressed decryptors. Next it goes into a loop uncompressing each decryptor instruction, plugging in the required registers, storing it and then generating (for each real instruction) a random amount of random instructions. This loop repeats until the complete decryptor has been constructed. The final result is a random size, random register, random patterned decryptor! It should also be noted that whenever SMEG generates an INDEXed instruction it uses either SI, DI or BX at random, also it sometimes uses a random offset. For example, say the encrypted code started at address 10h, the following could be used to index this address: MOV SI,10h ;Start address MOV AL,[SI] ;Index from initial address But sometimes SMEG will generate something like the following, again based on the encrypted code starting at address 10h: MOV DI,0BFAAh ;Indirect start address MOV AL,[DI+4066h) ;4066h + 0BFAAh = 10010h (and FFFF = 10h)!! These indexed and initial values are picked at complete random, and the examples of 0BFAAh and 4066h are valid, but next time they will be completely different! The following are two decryptors that were generated with my SMEG Polymorph Engine. It should be noted that I generated 4000 examples with no two alike! Unfortunately I ran out of hard drive space! But it is fairly safe to say that the total number of decryptor combinations would run into the BILLIONS! All the lines marked with ";junk" in the following listings indicate random junk instructions that were inserted throughout the actual decryptor, note that SMEG has the ability to generate junk CALLS to false SUBROUTINES, as well as general junk conditional jumps! All lines marked with a * indicate an actual part of the decryptor proper. I chose the two generations shown because their sizes were similar, 386 and 480 bytes. SMEG produces decryptors ranging in size from as little as 288 to as much as 1536 bytes. Even if two decryptors are generated that are the same size the chances of them being the same are, literally, billions to one!

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Free Software - Link to 500 Engines & Directories!!
by David Rand 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

This is what everyone with a Web Page has been waiting for! AN AUTOMATIC Submission program which will link your Web Pages to over 500 Search Engines & Directories!! Find out more about the Exploit Submission Wizard, and why it recently received a 5 star 'best buy' award from Internet Magazine and was recently reviewed as the 'greatest advance to web designers since the invention of hot dog'. You Can Download the Program and have a FREE TRIAL at: http://www.freegoodies.com/wizard/submit.htm

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RSA and Cylink settle
by Bruce Schneier 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Subj: Cylink and RSA Data Security Reach Legal Settlement; Public Key Encryption Compa Date: Tue, Jan 7, 1997 7:52 AM EST From: AOLNewsProfiles(a)aol.net REDWOOD CITY, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Jan. 7, 1997--RSA Data Security, Inc., a wholly-owned subsidiary of Security Dynamics Technologies, Inc. (NASDAQ:SDTI), and Cylink Corporation (NASDAQ:CYLK), today announced a comprehensive global settlement of their long-standing legal disputes. The settlement ends all outstanding litigation between Cylink and RSA. The two companies reached an amicable resolution of their disputes. As part of the settlement, Cylink granted to RSA all necessary rights to Cylink's Stanford patents, and RSA granted to Cylink a license to RSA's cryptographic software toolkits. For both parties, the settlement ends further prolongation of a legal dispute that has been costly and distracting. RSA is fulfilling the promise made to its customers to resolve the disputes with Cylink. Cylink, under its new president and chief executive, is refocusing all of its energies on providing end-to-end data security products and solutions, and has the ability to incorporate RSA or other technologies to meet customer requirements. "We are very pleased that what had so long seemed to be an intractable problem has, within the space of 10 days, now been resolved by the new management at Cylink," said James Bidzos, president of RSA. "I worked well with Fernand Sarrat while he was at IBM, and that working relationship helped us reach this agreement so swiftly. This agreement turns long-time antagonists into companies that are already exploring ways of working together constructively, to the benefit of the industry as a whole." Fernand Sarrat, president and chief executive officer of Cylink, said, "We are setting out on an aggressive new course at Cylink in which old disputes are an unnecessary distraction. RSA will be one of our strategic suppliers and we anticipate focusing totally on the needs of our customers and the enormous market opportunity before us." RSA Data Security, Inc. RSA Data Security, Inc., a wholly-owned subsidiary of Security Dynamics Technologies, Inc. (NASDAQ: SDTI), is the world's brand name for cryptography, with more than 75 million copies of RSA encryption and authentication technologies installed and in use worldwide. RSA technologies are part of existing and proposed standards for the Internet and World Wide Web, IT4, ISO, ANSI, IEEE, business, financial and electronic commerce networks around the globe. The company develops and markets platform-independent developer's kits and end-user products and provides comprehensive cryptographic consulting services. Founded in 1982 by the inventors of the RSA Public Key Cryptosystem, the company is headquartered in Redwood City, Calif. Cylink Corporation Cylink Corporation (NASDAQ: CYLK) is a leading worldwide supplier of information security solutions, providing the most comprehensive portfolio of public key cryptographic hardware and software products available today. Cylink's products enable secure transmissions over local area networks (LANs), wide area networks (WANs), public packet switched networks such as the Internet, asynchronous transfer mode (ATM) and frame relay networks. Cylink, headquartered in Sunnyvale, Calif., is also the leader in outdoor spread spectrum microwave radio communications. Cylink's customers include national and multinational corporations, financial institutions and government organizations. For more information about Cylink and its products, call the fax-on-demand number 800/735-6614, or visit the company's Web site at http://www.cylink.com. --30--mg/sf* eh CONTACT: Cylink Paula Contos Dunne, 408/523-5993 pdunne(a)cylink.com or Edelman Worldwide Ina McGuinness, 415/433-5381 x 213 imcguinn(a)edelman.com or Patrick Corman Patrick Corman, 415/326-9648 Corman(a)cerfnet.com ************************************************************************ * Bruce Schneier 2,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,002,000, * Counterpane Systems 000,000,000,000,000,000,002,000,000,002,293 * schneier(a)counterpane.com The last prime number...alphabetically! * (612) 823-1098 Two vigintillion, two undecillion, two * 101 E Minnehaha Pkwy trillion, two thousand, two hundred and * Minneapolis, MN 55419 ninety three. * http://www.counterpane.com ************************************************************************

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Re: An observation on the moderation thread.
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Roy M. Silvernail wrote: > In your mail, you write: > > So this jerk (number ???) admits the problem is already solved, > > then goes on to say "yeah, Sandy, block some more, just in case > > my killfile misses one". > Not at all. I'm simply noting that the people who are crying the > loudest about losing their forum are the ones I already ignore. As has > been amply pointed out, so long as the list is available in an > unmoderated form, nothing is being lost. > > You would have loved Hitler. > Godwin's Law has been invoked. > > You're nothing new, Roy. Just another fascistic voice calling for > > the Final Solution. > I'll resist the temptation to return the insult. If it matters, you've > been in my killfile for some weeks. > Consider this official notice: do not send me any more email of any > kind. Any such mail received will be considered harrassment, and will be > dealt with accordingly. Since Roy has chosen to argue with me, then shut me off by threatening reprisal if I mail him directly, I'll have to post this to the list. Sorry, Roy. I try never to do a thing like this, but next time, don't argue and then say I can't argue back. Just say "don't reply" and drop the argument.

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The Last Great Opportunity of the 20th Century!
by kent＠axxis.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I'm_a_SPAMMING_moron, Just thought I would drop you a note letting you know of an opportunity that I came across lately. I have been amazed at the success everyone in the company is having. As you know timing is everything. JDS, a debt-free multimillion dollar telecommunication company, is launching for expansion its networking division called FastTrack January 6, 1997. Just as the Oklahoma land rush was the last great opportunity of the 19th century - so is FastTrack the last great opportunity of the 20th. This is our chance to get in on the ground floor of an incredible opportunity. Best of all - the program incorporates "Spillover". Spillover is one of the best ideas ever developed for network marketing. Here's why: Anyone I sponsor after you, will be placed under you. You then earn commissions on these new people as if you had signed them up! I just signed up a few days ago and I already have 53 members in my team just from SPILLOVER! I hardly did anything! The program just started, in fact it has less than 3,000 members. This IS the ground floor! If you are serious about making money, then call our hotline at 800-399-5052. If you know what it's like to lose sleep because your so excited, then give me a call at 801-955-7975 or email me at kent(a)axxis.com.

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Dale on a tear (again)
by mixmaster＠remail.obscura.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 06:04 PM 1/5/97 -0800, Dale obviously wrote: :I'll bet Hitler was disenchanted by the declaration against him by the World Jewish Congress. : :I'll bet Andrew Jackson was disenchanted with the decisions of the :Seminole Indian leaders to not just lay down and die. : :And now Sandy is disenchanted. What a hypocritical asshole. What can one make of this fellow Dale? Either he is Dr. V's mouthpiece or he has gone off the deep end. A pity in either case -- a mind is a terrible thing to waste.

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Re: Relative Strength of 40-bit Crypto Implementations
by Rick Smith 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

: A client asked me today about where he could find evidence of the : relative strength of different encryption algorithms, when all are : restricted to 40-bit keys. He assumed dot-Gov was going to restrict his : export product to the 40-bit limit, but he wanted to provide the strongest : security he could within that limitation. There is a tiny technical wrinkle here -- the simpleminded approach is to use a 40 bit secret key appended to a constant, the smarter approach is to use some disclosed random data that, combined with 40 secret bits, produces a much longer key. It's like the salt in Unix passwords. The simple approach can allow an attacker to use a dictionary attack. The smarter approach means that the algorithm's full key length gets used. So, for example, you have 128 bit RC4 in which 88 bits are random but disclosed while the remaining 40 bits are still secret. The only practical problem is disclosure of the extra random bits, which the government expects the software to do. This is one of the uses of the big chunks of random data that host exchange in SSL V3. In earler SSLs they built the disclosed bits right into the protocol, an explicit field for disclosing part of the key. Rick. smith(a)sctc.com secure computing corporation

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infowar - defense - DOD
by nobody＠huge.cajones.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

DoD Information Warfare (IW) Department of Defense Topic(s): Government BPR Project Reports [Home] Document Listing by: [Title] [Author] [Topic] [Coverage] [Source] Abstract: Lead Agency: OASD (C31) Functional Area: Command and Control Project Title: DoD Information Warfare (IW) Functional Area: Command & Control Lead Agency: OASD(C3I) Summary: To achieve information superiority in support of national military strategy, a joint DoD team reengineered DoD Information Warfare processes. A high-level model was developed to provide a consensus view of key processes and data. This evaluation will lead to the development of a national IW policy, an assessment of IW vulnerability, and a standard risk management process. Description: The mission of this project was to develop a baseline activity model for current IW processes, identify improvement opportunities, and recommend a plan for the application of Business Process Reengineering to IW. Representatives from the Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS), Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Defense Intelligence Agency, National Security Agency, and the Defense Information Systems Agency participated in the project. Improvements: Nine specific improvements were identified including: Development of a joint, coordinated effort to identify and assess the vulnerabilities of military operations and systems and the defense information infrastructure. Development of a standardized process for risk management. Development of a national policy for the conduct of IW. Benefit: The improvements will provide an improved ability to achieve information superiority in support of national military strategy by affecting adversary information, information systems, and information processes while leveraging and defending U.S. information, information systems, and information processes. Predicted Savings: Not reported Investment: Not reported Point of Contact: LCOL Liz Anderson OASD (C3I) IW 6000 Defense Pentagon Washington, D.C. 20301-6000 (703)614-0624 DSN: 224-0624 INFOWAR.WPD 3252D.html

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[CRYPTO] Quadratic residues
by lucifer＠dhp.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timothy May's family tree goes straight up. All of his ancestors were siblings, to dumb to recognize each other in the dark. /\ o-/\ Timothy May ///\|/\\\ / /|\ \

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Great Opportunity!
by AllTheCash＠aol.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Re: Modified Token Posting Scheme
by ed.falk＠Eng.Sun.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> > > How about this simple policy scheme: > > > > > > 1) posts from known list members forwarded to list automatically > > > 2) posts with "approval cookie" also forwarded automatically > > > 3) otherwise, forwarded only after approval by moderator, > > > > I.e., libel from Timmy May, Ray Arachelian, and the rest of the gang > > is approved automatically, and when a victim tries to defend himself > > and to point out that Timmy May is a liar, the response is delayed > > and probably rejected by the moderator. > > > > It's been said that the best response to speech one doesn't like > > is more speech. "Cypher punks" want to take away the victim's > > ability to respond to the lies being posted on their mailing list. > > You are far from being the victim of anything. If anything you're a big > huge thug who spams the list, posts racist flames, posts homophobic > flames, uses social engineering to find out info on his "enemies" and > then posts that info online with requests that others send flames to that > person's employers. Besides, in my scheme, the first two options are explicitly there to avoid moderation. Just post under your real name or generate an authentication cookie.

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Re: FW: Modified Token Posting Scheme
by ed.falk＠Eng.Sun.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> >> How about this simple policy scheme: > >> > >> 1) posts from known list members forwarded to list automatically > >> 2) posts with "approval cookie" also forwarded automatically > >> 3) otherwise, forwarded only after approval by moderator, > > > So does this mean that any personal attacks or useless and annoying > drivel from the likes of Timmy May, Ray Arachelian and Sandy Sandford > would be automatically forwarded to the mailing list even though they > are frequently more annoying than the spam posted by the people who > would be censored by Gilmore ? No, just the opposite. My scheme allows people to route around moderation by authenticating their posts. The goal here is to keep *random* stuff, such as spam, off the list.

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NEW
by express＠capella.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

THE FOX FIRES HAVE STARTED BURNING! http://www.mlmers-ad-net.com/FoxTeam/Fox FREE WEB PAGE AND CHECKS SENT OUT DAILY! Let it begin, John

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American Cyber Mall
by rgwjr 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

AMERICAN CYBER MALL http://www.usacm.com FREE WEB PAGE CONTEST, WEEKLY DRAWING !!! Visit the American Cyber Mall http://www.usacm.com and you can register to win a FREE web page with FREE 12 months hosting !!! Just our way of say thanks for visiting our new award winning cyber mall. American Cyber Mall http://www.usacm.com TO BE REMOVED FROM LIST REPLY WITH SUBJECT = REMOVE

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Sandy is God...Listen to Him!
by nobody＠replay.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Don't understand all this issue about Sandy and John filtering the list. Don't we want order and control? We need Sandy to decide whether our articles should be read by others. Sandy is our spokesman, our leader, our navigator. When he founded the Cypherpunks group, he wanted ``order and control, ``and now he has been forced to re-assume control of the group to put controls in place. Hey, if Sandy and John say we have to stick to certain topics, well, dammit, they are in control and we have to do what they want. Sandy and John are our leaders. Forget this stuff about the Cypherpunks list being a group seperate from toad.com. Forget this idea that John is just the host of the list...he is actually the co-controlled. And we'd better pay attention. Why didn't Sandy and John just announce a new filtered list, like Blossom has? Why make their control the default for the whole list, with the the unfiltered list harder to subscribe to and eventually to go away completely? Good questions! Ask not the reasons for God's decissions. This is Sandy's list, and John's machine, and if they say they know best what is a flame and what is not, I say we should just take our medicine and learn to love their wise decisions. If they say we can only write flames if they approve, OK. If they say we must only write about libertarian topics, OK. If they reject our messages without explanation, OK. Sandy is our Leader. And anyone who doesn't respect our Leader should just leave. Bye -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 07dTgUBMs4Q8hvikii9febJAQEbrAQAmgwAeqSsi2qIkqakNRPCpwCwNnYudNop zyxE2LueC+WuhugtLeyDDet+WgefE9X84F4qxn/QVB+tJAGbZzfCPO24shelX21k mk80oevKqzcfAAzbB4tMtXe5gl6+zykExXjsx4J/KjMNPL0QAE490uvnKqus/a2H 0l2AU9k/Kp8= =ix2B -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: The Upcoming DES Challenge
by Liz Taylor 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

There is nothing unglamorous about a known plaintext attack, if the plaintext is choosen carefully. I don't know anything about bank ATMs and the protocols they use, but I presume the PIN is stored on the card single DES encrypted. If this is so, anyone can take an ATM card, attack it to recover the key and then use that key to recover the PIN for any stolen ATM card of that bank (or that branch). Hopefully, the ciphertext/plaintext pair that RSA announces will be a real target like this, with the actual key disabled. Once the key is recovered, the press can then claim that ATM cards are not safe any longer. On a related note, do you think the key will first be recovered by a hardware device or by the Great Internet DES Key Search? Hardware is much faster, but no such device exists in the private/amateur sector now. Estimates are that it will take 10 months to actually build such a device. Opinions?

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Re: Thoughts on moderation
by Douglas Barnes 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Goodness knows most people who are fully engaged in a mailing list get involved in an unproductive discussion or argument from time to time. My main assertion about Sandy is that although he has his likes and dislikes (and is not shy about sharing them) I can't see him bouncing messages just because someone was disagreeing with him. There might be someone who is less opinionated, but I think that you need to find someone who cares enough about a subject to be interested in moderating it (one antonym of "opinionated" is "dispassionate" -- think about it.) The only way to tell if Sandy will be fair _as a moderator_ is to give him a chance. Years of knowing him as a friend, and four months of sharing an office indicate that while he's stubborn and opinionated, he's also extremely fairminded, and will not bounce for content he disagrees with. He also has a broad concept (some might argue too broad) of acceptable list topics, but since we're looking primarily to screen out the worst dreck & outright spam, he seems like a logical choice as moderator. I don't see this move as censorship of any sort -- cleaning the Augean stables is more like it. I am profoundly tired of wading through completely worthless and vapid trash accusing Tim and John of various sexual perversions. (Note that if the writers actually knew these folks, they'd at least be able to write better or more interesting libel.) At 10:35 PM 1/6/97 -0800, you wrote: >Douglas Barnes wrote: >> 1) I've known Sandy for a couple of years, and I trust him to >> use good judgement as a moderator. It will be important to >> develop guidelines so that the job can be rotated, but it's also >> important that the moderator be someone who doesn't have any >> major axe to grind. Sandy has his personal likes and dislikes, >> but I don't think he'll ever stoop to tossing out opinions that >> he disagrees with. > >Wishful thinking, Doug. Sandy will take an emotional (non-objective) >position on an issue, and argue it beyond any reasonable limit. I wish >I had all his replies to things I've said - you'd see what I mean. > >Not to promote anyone who I might not be a friend of, but, there are >people on this list who are "well respected" who are light-years ahead >of Sandy in areas that are important for a list moderator. > >Maybe Gilmore should have publicly announced for a moderator, and then >let the subscribers pick.... > >

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$2500 for a class c.
by faried nawaz 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

------- Blind-Carbon-Copy To: hungry(a)hungry.com Cc: chris(a)uidaho.edu, people(a)kuoi.sub.uidaho.edu Subject: $2500 for a class c. Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 15:19:25 PST Message-ID: <7130.852679165(a)bear.cs.uidaho.edu> From: faried nawaz <nawaz921(a)bear.cs.uidaho.edu> (two messages follow) From: gjohnson(a)dream.season.com (Reality is a point of view) Subject: IP allocation goes fee based soon?! Newsgroups: ba.internet Date: 6 Jan 1997 16:08:04 GMT Organization: season.com [205.179.33.0] Path: news.uidaho.edu!newsfeed.orst.edu!newshub.tc.umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!howland.erols.net!agate!news.ucsc.edu!news.scruz.net!gjohnson Lines: 18 Message-ID: <slrn5d28r9.34.gjohnson(a)dream.season.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.179.33.42 Xref: news.uidaho.edu ba.internet:12066 Take a look at http://rs.internic.net/arin for a quiet bombshell, especially Section 2.3. A Class C block for $2,500? If you think that isn't funny there are a few people that agree with you in threads elsewhere. Try a dejanews search on $2500 Class C. You might also want to take a peek at http://www.iahc.org for news about a commentary period that ends in the next few days. - -- Gary Johnson "Wahoo." gjohnson(a)season.com Remember why... later in the thread -- From: davidm(a)them.com (David Mandala) Subject: Re: IP allocation goes fee based soon?! Newsgroups: ba.internet Date: Tue, 07 Jan 97 19:10:07 GMT Organization: Them Productions Path: news.uidaho.edu!newsfeed.orst.edu!news.uoregon.edu!marlin.ucsf.edu!overload.lbl.gov!agate!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news-xfer.netaxs.com!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!davidm Lines: 32 Message-ID: <5au72j$rnn(a)nntp1.best.com> References: <slrn5d28r9.34.gjohnson(a)dream.season.com> <e3mca8.3mx(a)oriole.sbay.org> <southernE3MJxJ.FKq(a)netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: davidm.vip.best.com X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.0 Beta #2 Xref: news.uidaho.edu ba.internet:12120 I've since heard that their contract run out in 1998, now since they have gone from a small nothing company to a widly known disaster, if follows that they are making money hand over fist. So before the contract opens we need to make enough noise with the goverment that the contract is NOT relet to them but rather to open bid, or to a true non profit alliance of Internet professionals to provide the service at cost (which in reality is quite small). Only we can make the difference. In article <southernE3MJxJ.FKq(a)netcom.com>, southern(a)netcom.com (Shawn) wrote: >In article <e3mca8.3mx(a)oriole.sbay.org>, George Bonser wrote: >: Billions and Billions of IP addresses are right around the corner >: and they are going to use the current shortage to set a precedent >: (sp?) of charging $2500 per block of 256? That would put them in a >: position to make an absolute KILLING when IPv6 comes out. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >Give that man a ceegar. > >That is, I believe, the point. > >All, of course, at $50/year per domain name. > >With that kind of income, they might give Microsoft a run for their >money as being one of the most profitable computer companies in the >world. <tounge FIRMLY in cheek> :-) > >Shawn /************************************************************* David Mandala Them Productions San Francisco, CA Internet: davidm(a)them.com CIS: 74156,221 AOL: dism *************************************************************/ faried - -- i don't hate people. | my other car is a cdr why, some of my closest | linux, the ms-dos of the nineties friends are people. | <zorgo> cable and internet.. who needs a life? -- stevi(a)aa.net | http://www.hungry.com/~fn/ ------- End of Blind-Carbon-Copy

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Re: The Upcoming DES Challenge
by sameer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> There is nothing unglamorous about a known plaintext attack, if the > plaintext is choosen carefully. I don't know anything about bank ATMs > and the protocols they use, but I presume the PIN is stored on the card > single DES encrypted. If this is so, anyone can take an ATM card, attack it > to recover the key and then use that key to recover the PIN for any stolen > ATM card of that bank (or that branch). Hopefully, the ciphertext/plaintext > pair that RSA announces will be a real target like this, with the actual key > disabled. Once the key is recovered, the press can then claim that ATM > cards are not safe any longer. Stolen ATM cards are actually not that valuable. They have fixed limits and require physical presence to exploit. Try swift/forex/etc. secret des keys.. those are valuable. -- Sameer Parekh Voice: 510-986-8770 President FAX: 510-986-8777 C2Net C2Net is having a party: http://www.c2.net/party/ http://www.c2.net/ sameer(a)c2.net

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Re: [CRYPTO] Quadratic residues
by miner 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 02:37 PM 1/7/97 -0500, Anonymous wrote: >Timothy May's family tree goes straight up. All of his >ancestors were siblings, to dumb to recognize each other in the >dark. > > /\ o-/\ Timothy May > ///\|/\\\ > / /|\ \ Counting the days till I don't have to see anymore of these, certainly a product of one of the 3 people already in my killfile. Thank you John and Sandy in advance

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RE: Thoughts on moderation
by Blanc Weber 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: Douglas Barnes I don't see this move as censorship of any sort -- cleaning the Augean stables is more like it. I am profoundly tired of wading through completely worthless and vapid trash accusing Tim and John of various sexual perversions. .................................................. So what about determining the lowest parameter of tolerance for style & content - how low you can go before your messages are transferred to the "flames" division? Then, for instance, Uni could say to Dale: "you will find my detailed retort to your deluded accusations on the other list" (which Dale would, of course, go over there and read <g>). In any case, everyone would know what that sensitive, low point of intolerance is such that if they descend to it they will be sifted out and recategorized. .. Blanc

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