December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Why I Don't Read SF Much Anymore
by Adamsc＠io-online.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 00:14:49 -0800, Timothy C. May wrote: >On the issue of why many of us don't read as much SF as we once did... >1. I'm a lot older. The stuff that I thought was really great back when I >was 14-22, or so, and even "pretty good" until I was about 25 or so, now >really looks like dreck. (Not all of it, but more than I thought was dreck >at the time.) >Partly this is age and life experience, partly just increased sophistication. Remember Sturgen's (sp?) law: 90% of everything is crap - I think most of us just take awhile before we agree. The SF genre could be characterized by a couple diamonds buried in a manure pit... >(Vernor V. claimed to a friend of mine that the day he spent talking to >several of us was the most fruitful day he'd spent in a long time...I take >this as evidence that folks like us are to the new generation of SF writers >what folks like members of the British Interplanetary Society were to >writers of past generations.) I'd agree 100%. A community as small as the SF writers *needs* outside influence. Must be neat, though, to read a book and go "I *did* that!" >(Interestingly, Eric Drexler says he cannot enjoy it because Simmons does >not give nanotechnology a central enough role. This echoes the point Duncan nanotech (and other things) can spoil a good story by making things too easy. Take most (all?) of Forward's books - great ideas, but it reads like a press release. >- Orson Scott Card, "Ender's Game." A good fictional exploration of online >anony mity. In many ways, Cypherpunks was explicity a kind of combination >of "Ender's Game," "True Names," "The Shockwave Rider," and "Atlas >Shrugged." I think those books are partly responsible for getting a great many people interested in this sort of thing... >- and of course Heinlein, though his best stuff is 30-45 years old now Always a mark of a great SF author: his stuff is still good even if the science is outdated... Ditto EE smith - it's funny, when you read things like the lensmen series it seems cliched until you realize it *is* cliched - because so many others copied him. # Chris Adams <adamsc(a)io-online.com> | http://www.io-online.com/adamsc/adamsc.htp # <cadams(a)acucobol.com> | send mail with subject "send PGPKEY" "That's our advantage at Microsoft; we set the standards and we can change them." --- Karen Hargrove, Microsoft (quoted in the Feb 1993 Unix Review editorial)

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Re: Why I Don't Read SF Much Anymore
by Adamsc＠io-online.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Thu, 21 Nov 96 10:05:46 -0500, Ken Kirksey wrote: >certain romance in the Gersnbackian view of the future that I enjoy, >especially in contrast to the Grim and Gritty (TM) "reality" of most >modern and post-modern SF. I still find Heinlein's juveniles to be fun >reads, probably for this reason. Ditto for Edgar Rice Burroughs's Mars >books. That's one thing you could say: The predictors of the future are a lot more pessimistic than they used to be... # Chris Adams <adamsc(a)io-online.com> | http://www.io-online.com/adamsc/adamsc.htp # <cadams(a)acucobol.com> | send mail with subject "send PGPKEY" "That's our advantage at Microsoft; we set the standards and we can change them." --- Karen Hargrove, Microsoft (quoted in the Feb 1993 Unix Review editorial)

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Re: Finjan "SurfinGate"
by Adamsc＠io-online.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:10:51 -0600, Mike McNally wrote: >Check out http://www.finjan.com and the stuff about "SurfinGate". The >software supposedly can perform an on-the-fly inspection of a Java >applet or ActiveX control, and then apply a signature to it along with >a "safety" level qualifier to feed into a configurable policy mechanism. > >Any ideas as to how you can look at an ActiveX control and determine >whether it's safe or not? You can't. Anyone who claims to be able to do so is betting their scanning ability against the collective programming skill of hundreds of brilliant-but-twisted programmers/hackers. Remember CHK4BOMB? The old DOS program that would dump strings from an EXE so you could look for things like "Happy birthday yoshi"? They started encrypting and adding polymorphing and stealthing and . . . Now you could write a program that would scan for more 'obvious' attacks but it will probably be a continual catch-up game. You don't even have the ability to do checksumming of existing files (like you do w/virii). # Chris Adams <adamsc(a)io-online.com> | http://www.io-online.com/adamsc/adamsc.htp # <cadams(a)acucobol.com> | send mail with subject "send PGPKEY" "That's our advantage at Microsoft; we set the standards and we can change them." --- Karen Hargrove, Microsoft (quoted in the Feb 1993 Unix Review editorial)

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Re: Database law... silver lining??
by Greg Broiles 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 04:44 AM 11/22/96 GMT, you wrote: >Real-To: "Richard L. Field" <field(a)pipeline.com> > > Should a database protection law such as HT 3531 be enacted in the U.S., >it just may turn out to be the best weapon yet for the protection of >personal data. Why shouldn't a "database" be interpreted to include an >individual's personal data? All that is required is that it be "arranged in >a systematic or methodical way". Heck, that's not so hard. And a "database >maker" isn't necessarily Lexis (the compiler of P-TRAK) and friends, it is >each individual who originally made a "substantive" (i.e., lifetime) >investment in the collection of the contents of his personal database. Cute, but any such proposal is almost guaranteed to allow for independent creation from a non-database source - e.g., warranty cards, info extracted from you when you ask for credit, public records, etc. For example, one comment to Article 3 of the proposed WIPO treaty on sui generis protection of databases provides: "3.02 The protection provided does not preclude any person from independently collecting, assembling or compiling works, data or materials from any source other than a protected database." (see <http://www.loc.gov/copyright/wipo6.html> for more.) It's very unlikely that Congress (or the PTO) intends to do anything that'll screw up what's already working well for big database publishers. Your theory is similar to a patent flavor for databases, while the proposals floated out so far are much more like copyright - e.g., independent creation is OK, but copying is not, even with wide public distribution, and long protection times. With patent, independent creation is not OK, copying (the information, not the device) is encouraged/allowed, and protection time is short. [Friday, 11/22, is the deadline to submit comments to the PTO asking them to withdraw consideration of the WIPO database treaty from the conference in Geneva. (Or encouraging them to submit it, if that's your opinion.) Comments can be sent to Mr. Keith Kupferschmid at diploconf(a)uspto.gov.) -- Greg Broiles | US crypto export control policy in a nutshell: gbroiles(a)netbox.com | http://www.io.com/~gbroiles | Export jobs, not crypto. |

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re: sci fi
by Alan Olsen 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 09:50 PM 11/21/96 -0800, John Anonymous MacDonald wrote: >Without a doubt contemporary SciFi authors such as Vinge and Stephenson have produced >great thought provoking works. Always a good read. > >But sometimes I'm drawn back to the rollicking rampages of EE Doc Smith or the playful >frollicks of Harry Harrison. While not presenting a plausible vision of our future >they do offer a significant amount of enjoyment. Pure brain candy! For absolute brain candy, I recommend "Star Smashers of the Galaxy Rangers". EE.Doc Smith meets the Hardy Boys. The ending I had to read twice... >So will some exceptionally creative sort spend 3 or 4 hundred pages exploring >BlackNet and the future of global networking? We can only hope. >Or has anyone looked at what has happened to trivial networks like >IRC's EFnet to see a potential model for how global networking will become >balkanized under bandwidth constraints, server cycle shortages, >and over worked sysadmins? One physical connection and many virtual, >private networks with limitted interoperability and crossover. The internet of >the near future may not be the open paradise it is today. The bandwidth will increase and people will find bigger and better ways to chew it up. Governments will make bigger and bigger claims to why their set of petty rule outweigh other governemnts petty rules, increasing fear, uncertanty and doubt in the process. All in all, things will change and life will go on. (Unless we all die and then all bets are off.) >I read in InfoWorld that the Telco Dereg act may destroy the local loop market >for T1 lines from LD COs. As many as 900,000 new T1's may become available at bargain >rates on the order of $40 per month with end point hardware under $700. Watch >PairGain Technologies as they are the leader in this hardware market and have >some real interesting vox/data over twisted pair toys. Mmmm! Bandwidth! I hear of people complaining how much time is spent online. This is going to be a heroin-like fix to those sort of people. (I already have access to a t-1. It can be pretty damn addicting. At least when the rest of the net is willing to cooperate...) I expect that the big winners in the bandwidth wars will be the hard drive manufacturers. Imagine the amount of crap that will accumulate when downloads take seconds instead on minutes (or hours). Buy your stock now! >Sheesh, I start out talking SciFi and end up talking PairGain! I guess the future >is now. Actually the future was last week. Sorry. You missed it. --- | "Remember: You can't have BSDM without BSD." | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | |`finger -l alano(a)teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/ |alan(a)ctrl-alt-del.com|

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/dev/random and similar
by Three Blind Mice 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

There was a thread here a while back about /dev/random and similar devices for Linux, but I managed to lose the mails and the hks.net archives still aren't working (any news on that?). If someone could tell me where I could find such a driver, I would appreciate it very much. TIA! --3bmice

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RE: Mass-market crypto phones
by Peter Trei 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

"Clay Olbon" writes: > If I'm not mistaken (and I've been known to be from time to time :-), cell > phones are already encrypted between the phone and cell tower. He's mistaken, at least for analog cellphones in the US - digital cellphones (just starting to come in now) may have some form of protection. Before a law was passed, it was easy and legal to listen in on cellphones on most scanners and many ham radio outfits (and even some UHF TVs). Now it's merely easy. It's kind of pathetic - I'm sure that the billions lost to cellular fraud far outweigh the value of crimes that the LEA groups have been able prevent by preserving their ability to illegally eavesdrop on cell calls without a warrant. Peter Trei trei(a)process.com (standard disclaimer applies) Peter Trei Senior Software Engineer Purveyor Development Team Process Software Corporation http://www.process.com trei(a)process.com

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RE: Mass-market crypto phones
by Clay Olbon II 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 09:41 AM 11/22/96 -6, Peter Trei wrote (in part): >It's kind of pathetic - I'm sure that the billions lost to cellular fraud >far outweigh the value of crimes that the LEA groups have been >able prevent by preserving their ability to illegally eavesdrop on >cell calls without a warrant. Lots of TV specials lately on stealing cell-phone codes and cloning phones. Seems to me that this would be ridiculously easy to stop using crypto. As a side issue (related to your comment about banning the listening in on cell-phone calls). I find it pretty amazing that it is possible to make it illegal to listen to signals broadcast over public airways. Yet another way crypto will help society - it will make such laws restricting our freedoms obsolete. Clay >Peter Trei >trei(a)process.com >(standard disclaimer applies) > >Peter Trei >Senior Software Engineer >Purveyor Development Team >Process Software Corporation >http://www.process.com >trei(a)process.com ******************************************************* Clay Olbon olbon(a)ix.netcom.com engineer, programmer, statistitian, etc. **********************************************tanstaafl

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Re: Crypto Bounties
by Ted Anderson 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Regarding the idea of setting up markets (or bounties) for software, I'd like to direct your attention to the Idea Futures scheme. This is currently embodied as a web server at: http://www.ideosphere.com/ideosphere/fx/main.html There is some background on the idea by Robin Hanson who talks extensively about using it as a funding mechanism. In addition there is a whole suit of market claims denominated in fake money. Ted Anderson -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMpXDrgGojC9e/wyBAQGPmgP/fXo4g3w9yefWiQK+Lp2RRxpwjwmmTmr3 b75k0deXV5gX/WdcNccvdFEYcZ5MMTEMQYOeFxhPi0Xr5goIJLJ++oPCRGXAWADQ k98PDgzfM+si8QqT8K7PG+BwejankJsh1npqaJVCE/8dboZBKNFVlsrzg7oGTfw2 adgiDyWD7Og= =pbS3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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RE: Mass-market crypto phones
by Mullen Patrick 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

_______________________________________________________________________________ From: Adam Shostack on Fri, Nov 22, 1996 1:21 > > I'd just like to second what Lucky wrote at the end of his >very nice summation of the crypto phone hardware issues. Eric's phones >have damn good voice quality in secure mode. I should probably make it more clear that my comment referred to price, NOT quality. I'm sure it is a wonderful product (I haven't tried it myself), but I believe the price tag was at or around $1000. My comments on the hardware used was for demostration purposes, not for saying anything was wrong with the design strategy. In fact, I thought it was a perfectly fine strategy, and easy(ish) to implement. Basically, it took the dedicated computer you would need for phone encryption and put it in a cheaper box. To be honest, I thought he had a good idea. I just wouldn't want to pay $1000 for phone encryption. But, it's rare I have conversations where I need that much security. I'm sure the product is worth it; it's just out of my price range. And probably out of the price range of the average user. PM USER ERROR: REPLACE AND STRIKE ANY KEY WHEN READY

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Re: Word Lists
by pjb＠ny.ubs.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

this used to be a good site for what you want. YMMV "An anonymous ftp server has been built on wocket.vantage.gte.com which contains the following files in the pub/standard_dictionary directory:" -paul > From cypherpunks-errors(a)toad.com Fri Nov 22 03:04:16 1996 > X-Sender: camcc(a)smtp1.abraxis.com > X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) > Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:29:07 -0500 > To: kb4vwa(a)juno.com (Edward R. Figueroa) > From: camcc(a)abraxis.com (Alec) > Subject: Re: Word Lists > Cc: cypherpunks(a)toad.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type> : > text/plain> ; > charset="us-ascii"> > Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com > Content-Length: 1012 > > At 01:40 PM 11/21/96, you wrote: > :I'm looking for a Large Word List, for a pkcrack program. > : > :Anyone have any idea where to find one, or how to convert a dictionary > :formated file to a wordlist file? > : > :Ed > : > http://world.std.com/~reinhold/diceware.wordlist.asc > > This is the wordlist for Diceware, and I quote, "7776 short English words, > abbreviations and easy to remember character strings. The average length of > each word is about 4.2 characters. The biggest words are six characters long. > > The list is based a longer word list posted to the Internet news group > sci.crypt by Peter Kwangjun Suk." > > This may not be long enough for your needs. > > The address of the Diceware page is > > http://world.std.com/~reinhold/diceware.page.html > > Good luck. > > Cordially, > > Alec > > PGP Fingerprint: > Type bits/keyID Date User ID > pub 1024/41207EE5 1996/04/08 Alec McCrackin <camcc(a)abraxis.com> > Key fingerprint = 09 13 E1 CB B3 0C 88 D9 D7 D4 10 F0 06 7D DF 31 > > >

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re: sci fi
by Alan Olsen 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 06:48 PM 11/22/96 +0100, Asgaard wrote: >On Thu, 21 Nov 1996, Alan Olsen wrote: > >> For absolute brain candy, I recommend "Star Smashers of the Galaxy >> Rangers". EE.Doc Smith meets the Hardy Boys. The ending I had to read >> twice... > >A rather odd book that I found immensely stimulating is >'Venus on a halfshell' by a Nym (allegedly for Kurt Vonnegut, >who in most of his books under his own name now and then >refers to some hilarious non-existing SF story by this 'author'). Philip Jose Farmer claimed to have written that one. It also brings up an interesting point... Nyms are fairly commonplace amongst the writing community. (Even Steven King wrote under a nym (or two).) In fact there are books listing "nyms of the famous" for book collectors. Payment schemes for authors under nyms are already in place. (For example, I do a monthly column under a nym and they have no qualms about paying me.) DBAs also cover nyms in some respects. Nyms do not have to have a "sinister purpose" (as the feds would like us to believe). I think that they are far more ingraned into the culture than people realize. (Where would this world be without Mark Twain (a nym for Samuel Clemmens), Maxwell Grant (the nym for Walter B. Gibson and others for the Shadow pulps), and the thousands of other nyms that appear in the publishing field?) Just because they are published under a nym does not mean anyone takes their books less seriously or enjoy them less. (In fact, there are many authors that are nyms unbeknownst to the readers. I would say that most nyms in the publishing world are...) --- | "Remember: You can't have BSDM without BSD." | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | |`finger -l alano(a)teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/ |alan(a)ctrl-alt-del.com|

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Re: RE: Mass-market crypto phones
by Jim Ray 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Date: Sat Nov 23 14:16:14 1996 Peter Trei wrote: <snip> > It's kind of pathetic - I'm sure that the billions lost to cellular fraud > far outweigh the value of crimes that the LEA groups have been > able prevent by preserving their ability to illegally eavesdrop on > cell calls without a warrant. I agree, but to the LEAs, the "value of crimes" includes asset forfeiture "profits," which change that accounting in favor of eavesdropping (in their minds, at least). Of course, cellular fraud is paid for by others who, if they're politically active at all, are likely to demand even more money for the LEAs. A win -- win situation (in their minds, at least). JMR Regards, Jim Ray DNRC Minister of Encryption Advocacy One of the "legitimate concerns of law enforcement" seems to be that I was born innocent until proven guilty and not the other way around. -- me Please note new 2000bit PGPkey & address <jmr(a)shopmiami.com> PGP id.A7D63DA9 98 1F 39 BA 93 86 B4 F5 57 52 64 0E DA BA 2C 71 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEPAwUBMpdNgjUhsGSn1j2pAQFCbQfOJss3rMfEaWt1kv8oNfiOvwtoaa15s6lc vOVqG9dBMKCI41/x+k8Jzsb4pVvQOu4cXtUvIDOojY3JvmEzO9EVl125o8/pDxZy iNqgpLic8Px0R/uASJCj9T0nnFemRmY+QznaQNMdgLs92nOHuEK6Kfi66lqEGmda CxeuOSdijI+U741bU1a7xjqhc0uwj4ycsjmBB9nOKPSIsbZZYkYcDirT0z/l1F48 aVFphyzek4FjhIaFNFTdGs9YUkJM7hJJ0EfpxeWUeBAfyjkphrATXnW2WGF/iExo 32h6EYgso94VCT7LiWfK20pQ4Mk43i6xemjDdPS+9oS93Q== =eZ9E -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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re: [NOISE] sci fi
by Peter Trei 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 18:48:22 +0100 (MET) > From: Asgaard <asgaard(a)Cor.sos.sll.se> > To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com > Subject: re: sci fi > On Thu, 21 Nov 1996, Alan Olsen wrote: > > For absolute brain candy, I recommend "Star Smashers of the Galaxy > > Rangers". EE.Doc Smith meets the Hardy Boys. The ending I had to read > > twice... > A rather odd book that I found immensely stimulating is > 'Venus on a halfshell' by a Nym (allegedly for Kurt Vonnegut, > who in most of his books under his own name now and then > refers to some hilarious non-existing SF story by this 'author'). > Asgaard "Star Smashers" first appeared under a wierd 'Generic Book' imprint in the late 70s/early 80s. There were a series of them - with plain white covers and black capital titles such as "SCIENCE FICTION", "ROMANCE", "WESTERN", "MYSTERY", etc, all actually by well respected authors in their respective fields. I think "Star Smashers' was by Harry Harrison, but am not sure. VotHS claimed to have been written by Kilgore Trout, an third rate SF author who exists only in the works of Kurt Vonnegut. However, the actual author is Phillip Jose Farmer, whom Kurt granted permission to use the character as a joke at a party. Farmer then wrote and published VotHS, perfectly imitating Vonnegut's style, to Vonnegut's great dismay. Peter Trei trei(a)process.com

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Re: Patent Fight Could Add to Cost of Inter
by Phillip M Hallam-Baker 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

---------- > > ``We believe it's important to draw a line in the sand and make > > them prove infringement,'' said CompuServe spokeswoman Gail > > Whitcomb. ``We think their claim is way too broad.'' > > This is quite a statement coming from a company that flexed its muscles on > the .GIF file spec. about 3 years ago. > > If I remember right Compuserve caused some some major changes in RIP and > HTTP developement. Until that time the only graphic format supported in > Mosaic was .GIF. JPEG was promptly added and there was hot debate about > the issue. Having been at CERN at the time and having been the first person to incorporate JPEG into a browser (Arena) I know this to be incorrect. We intended to put JPEG into the browsers from before the time that Marc introduced the IMG tag. Indeed a principle point of discussion on the list was how to cope with multiple formats. We knew that GIF was poor and that 24 bit screens would soon become the standard. On the other hand GIF was better for icons, line drawings and such and had better support from tools. The question was how to do content negotiation well and support the best configuration for the particular hardware. Marc did not exactly allow much time for comment on the list and chose to interpret the constructive criticism of his IMG tag as opposition to the idea of transcluded images. Actually the question was whether images should be a special class of transcluded object, it really should be possible to transclude HTML within HTML, something that frames attempts to do but not particularly well. The patent issue was not of CompuServe's making. They were unaware of the UNISYS patent when they developed the spec and had they known about it would have developed GIF differently. When UNISYS asserted their patent rights CompuServe had no choice to pay up, they did however negotiate a blanket license agreement which has assisted the rest of the industry in making agreements. The main effect of the patent issue was to give added impetus to the PNG (prn. "Ping!") which is a patent free extension of the GIF idea. Unlike GIF PNG is designed to work on the 24 bit displays we use today and provide a good, general purpose standard for interchange of images in a lossless manner. JPEG is fine for presentation of images but useless as an editing format since it looses information on each cycle. It is also poor at handling line drawings and other non photographic sources (the P in JPEG is Photographic). It would be nice if the industry would support PNG more widely since its probably the best piece of original work to come out of the Web consortium. I believe that Microsoft are supporting it in their next browser release and even if they don't both 4.0 browsers are much better at supporting plug ins. Phill

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Nov 26 DC: House hearing on compsec & crypto: PRZ, Denning, Lin, ...
by John Gilmore 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

DC-area cypherpunks may want to attend to watch the sausage machine in action. Forwarded-by: Dave Farber <farber(a)cis.upenn.edu> Subject: IP: House Briefing on Crypto From: Dorothy Denning The Technology Subcommittee of the House Science Committee is holding a briefing on computer security and encryption at 2:00 PM in Room 2318 Rayburn on Tuesday, November 26. Panelists are: Herb Lin, moderator. Study director of NRC crypto report. Bill Reinsch, Commerce Dept. Undersecretary for Export Administration Dan Geer, Director of Engineering, Open Market, Inc. John Linn, chair of IETF Common Authentication Technology Working Group Dorothy Denning, professor at Georgetown University Phil Zimmerman, author of PGP

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Re: Stewart Baker on new crypto rules
by Sean Roach 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 08:17 PM 11/20/96 -0800, Lucky Green wrote: > he [hp's policy person] >replied: > >"There are many >possible interpretations of the words 'voluntary' and 'mandatory'." > >I am willing to testify to this under oath. > >I don't know what dictionary HP is using. Orwell himself must have >written it. Well, if the customer does not complain about its inclusion, and chooses to use it for its simplicity over more secure, "after market" systems, then thats voluntary. Thats the same voluntary that means that if the people don't get out to the polls then they volunteered to keep thier opinions about how government should be run to themselves. It will probably be voluntary, no one tells you that you have to use interNic when using the internet, but you probably do because it is easier than trying to route around it to its new competitor (the one issuing URL's ending in .auto and .bus among others). No one is telling you to use interNic, no one is telling you to pay to register with interNic, but it is definately less of a headache.

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Re: Why I Don't Read SF Much Anymore
by Sean Roach 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 11:00 PM 11/20/96 -0500, Robert Hettinga wrote: >At 9:09 pm -0500 11/20/96, Hal Finney wrote: >>What fiction can people recommend which presents crypto/privacy issues >>realistically? How about this new book that Neal Stephenson is working >>on, does anyone know what it's about? His short story, "Hack the Spew", >>a few months ago (in Wired, I think?) had a strong crypto flavor. > >His, "Great Samolean Caper" for Time/Pathfinder was pure cryptoanarchy... > >I don't know if it's still around though. > I saved the whole magazine, I can copy it for you if you like. I thought that I had the magazine in the dorm room but I can't seem to find it.

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Re: Does John Gilmore EAT Asshole?
by Sean Roach 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

This aga nut is getting to be a real pain in the... Well lets say that he is one hellish proctologist. I am very tempted to send this nut a few copies of the netscape 1.0 executable. Worthless and fairly bulky. AND I would be a citizen taking action. When Mr. Gilmore took action, he was lambasted for his troubles. Mr. Gilmore, however, had the misfortune of holding a position of percieved power, I don't. I assume that aga will not see this as he doesn't follow the list.

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Re: Mass-market crypto phones
by Sean Roach 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 09:10 AM 11/21/96 -0500, Clay Olbon II wrote: >A while back, Eric Blossom posted a URL for a mass-market, phone encyrption >device (http://www.comsec.com/) The point of this post is to posit a >scenario based on the implications of this product. This is speculation >based on where I think such products should be heading. > >I think we need to keep a couple of goals in mind. The first, is to get >encrypting phones (or phone add-ons) into Wal-mart, K-mart, etc (where >probably most Americans now buy their phones). The prices need to be low >enough that people will want to buy them (<$100?). Is this technically >feasible? The comsec device from the above URL already demonstrates the >needed capability. Is the cost target possible? My guess is soon, given >the lowering costs and increasing capabilities of current processors. > >The second goal needs to be to push a similar product for cell-phones. I >think this will be perhaps an easier sell, given the higher initial cost for >these phones, and their reduced security. Perhaps a home device could be >sold with the cell-phone as a package deal, so that communications with the >"home base" (i.e your office, home, etc) would be secure. With the rapid >growth in cell-phone sales, selling a package such as this might ensure a >larger user-base of home devices. > >Given that these goals are met, I think widespread use of crypto over phone >lines would become almost inevitable. However, the fun part would be the >introduction of such products. The FUD coming from police, the government, >etc. would be amazing to behold. > At first this seemed to be a challenging goal as public key encryption (at least the type of which I am aware) requires a public key ring, but then I thought, what would be the point in real time communitation? Here is my idea. The initiating phone sends a public key to the receiving phone. The receiving phone takes this public key and uses it to prepare the session key, or perhaps both session keys (one key for each simples circuit), as in PGP. Both boxes would need to have hybrid circuits in them like the telephone company uses to filter out the incoming signal from the outgoing signal. The telephone amplifiers only amplify half of the signal, so it basically consists of two simplex circuits from the local trunk to the other trunks. This could be bypassed if the device set between the base and the handset. Best would be to have the hybrid circuit so that it could work with the more basic models. I can only see two problems. The first problem I can see right now would be randomization, (line noise sampling?, hold the microphone close to a radio playing static until the LED starts flashing?) The second challenge would be getting public key encryption to work with an analog system. The device will have to have two analog to digital converters and two digital to analog converters. I believe that the telephone operates with a carrier of about 3000 Hz, thus the box will probably need to maintain a sampling rate of 1500 Hz or less, if this frequency will carry voice. The system will probably need some form of run-time compression built in as well as sample voice at a low bit depth. The result, under ideal circumstances will probably be a tinny sound and loss of fidelity. The D-A, A-D pair on the telco side could be replaced by a good modem, this would eliminate some of the problems of the RBOC filters cutting out the "noise" which would really be signal. If you set the sampleing rate at 3000 cycles per second, by 8 bits of depth, you would need to be able to transmit clearly 3000 * 8 bits per second or 24000 bits per second. That would be 24 KiloBITS per second, about 1/8th the 28.8 KiloBYTE modems that are commond today. A 3000 baud modem should be both cheap and easy to pack into a small package. This would probably allow for no compression at 8 bits of sampling depth. So, the block diagram would be as follows. ________________ _______________ ___________ | | | --> | | --> | | Line to | Line from RBOC | 3000+ Baud |-----| Public Key |-----|A-D /D-A | Telephone | ----------------| Full Duplex | | Encryption | | Pair |-------------- | <---> | Modem |-----| Layer |-----| | <---> | |______________| <-- |_____________| <-- |_________| | I was thinking that the device could be built into a case about the same size as a modem or answering machine, possibly a little taller to accomidate the modem circuit, should a full duplex modem replace the telco end A-D, D-A pair. Unfortunately, I have very little experience with circuits. I can't even draw out an asyncronis multivibrator right now. (That is a square wave generator involving 2 transistors, 4 resistors, and 2 capicitors, not a toy based around a motor with an off center weight) P.S. The line on the far right is for alignment, If this line is crooked, copy and paste the diagram to a standard ASCII editor. this should eliminate the pipes and spaces from being shorter than every thing else.

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[noise] Re: Why I Don't Read SF Much Anymore
by Sean Roach 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 12:14 AM 11/21/96 -0800, Timothy C. May wrote: ... >- John Brunner, "The Shockwave Rider," and, my favorite, "Stand on >Zanzibar." Required reading. As Shalmaneser would put it, "Christ, what an >imagination he had." ... Anyone else notice similarites between the protagonist in "The Shockwave Rider" and "The Pretender" the new Television series. They both even have sympathetic pursuers. Any wagers on how long it will take the pretender to turn his old handler? BTW, Tim, I don't mean to offend you by adding noise to the front, but this post is a little off topic, mine not yours. I seem to have offended someone else by doing something similar.

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Re: The public sees no need for crypto at this time
by frantz＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:25 AM 11/21/96 -0800, Timothy C. May wrote: >I believe that at this time the differential market value to customers of >having strong crypto in telephones is near-zero, and in cell-phones is only >slightly greater. [reasoning deleted]. I generally agree with Tim about consumers. However, I remember working on a theater production where we were using Radio Shack 2-way headphones for communication. One day while we were setting up, we were able to overhear a woman discussing (presumably with a girlfriend) her boyfriend and their sex life over a portable telephone. You can bet that every available headset was in use and all other work stopped. Where I think there is a market and an awareness of a need is in the corporate world. I recently saw a corporate security policy which specifically restricted discussing classified information on portable or cell phones. If I were in France (to pick on just one guilty country), I would not want to discuss secrets involving competitive position vs. a French company on a landline connection. The big driving force for companies is how much the facility costs. (I recently heard a price of $700 for non-crypto phones.) If the cost is low enough, company employees will have these boxes in their homes. The other big obstacle is standards. As far as I can tell, every crypto phone has its own protocol. If there were a standard set of protocols, it would greatly help the market, as it has for so many other products. As a first step, I suggest that Eric Blossom and PGP Inc. work together to develop a mode where their products can communicate with each other. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | The lottery is a tax on | Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | those who can't do math. | 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz(a)netcom.com | - Who 1st said this? | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA

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WORK ONLINE...PART TIME
by Success 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

WORK ONLINE...PART TIME! National Software Company is currently seeking independent agents for marketing their services. If you're reading this, you have what it takes, (a computer and modem), to start your own business, work part-time or full-time. The commissions are great, the products are great, and it sells itself. You will be sent all the materials it takes to take orders in the convenience of your own home,-manual, order forms, software, etc. This is a real company, desiring real people worldwide who want in on the ground floor. With all the people getting online via AOL, Compuserve, Netscape, the marketing and need is great. You must be a self-starter, ready to handle in-bound calls, and make between $700-to-$1000 per week to start. Our average agents yearly salary is six figures. Be your own boss! Join us and become an independent sales agent. For more information and signing up contact: DOWNLOAD YOUR FREE INFORMATION DISK FROM THIS WEB SITE. http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/3151/ You simply point and click - just like you do in windows. It is a breeze to work with. See for yourself what all the excitement is about... download it! Please note: This is a one time mailing only and you have NOT been added to any lists for future mailings.

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Another animal isolation idea ...
by Ernest Hua 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

How about putting the list o' bad animals in a separate list where the list server will specially recognize and will not broadcast messages except back to the sender? This will be an effective stealth censorship mechanism, which some of us would like to see happen to the few "animals" contributing the trash. Ern

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Oh fun ... another mass spam mailer ...
by Ernest Hua 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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