December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: What is best policy paper on crypto?
by norm＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 7:18 PM 9/12/96, Gregg Cooke wrote: .... > > I'm gonna stick my neck out here and ask a naive question: where > can I find "the NAS report" mentioned in this thread? Note that > I'm new to this list (2 days) so please be kind if this paper is > extremely well known (it's not known to me but it sounds like > something I need to read). > > -Gregg I think that they meant the NRC (National Research Council) report. It is at: <http://pwp.usa.pipeline.com/~jya/nrcindex.htm>.

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Mobile IP URL typo
by John Gilmore 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> >locations. See http://www.ietf.org/html-charters/mobileip-charter.html, > >or search for "Mobile IP" in a web search engine. > That URL got 404-NotFound... s/-/. http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/mobileip-charter.html John

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Pipeline Up
by jya＠pipeline.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Cancel that poop about Pipeline being down. Seems only NYC is down. Access is OK through PSInet. jyy(a)gnn.com is for top secret black SIGINT only, okay?

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Cryptography of a sort - redux
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

If anyone remembers my original postings from a couple weeks ago (my first-ever on The Net), I described a method to "shuffle" bits in a text-stream, using simple random-number generators, to insure that the text cannot be descrambled by brute-force methods. It has occurred to me only after this time that there was significant misinterpretation of what I proposed. I do not change any bits of text, I merely reposition them, therefore there is no applicability of standard analysis techniques (XOR masking, whatever) to the decoding process. The result file contains the same number of zero and one bits as it started with, through any number of encryption layers. The only way to recover the original text is to reposition the shuffled bits correctly, which requires brute-force guessing of the pseudo-random-number output. This guess is very simple for the first encoding layer, but compounds exponentially in subsequent encodings, so that after half a dozen or a dozen passes, where the executable program(s) is called from scratch for each pass, the shuffling rapidly approaches true randomness, and cannot be decrypted in practice except through the exact mirror-image reversal of the encryption passes. An example: How long would it take for you to guess the number (between 0 and 32000) I'm thinking of, if you could guess 16 billion numbers per second? Would it be .000001 second, on average? If you had to guess the ten different numbers I'm thinking of, and get all ten correct sequentially, it should take an essentially infinite amount of time, yes? And remember, since computer bits have such low differentiation (ones and zeros), looking for "patterns" and so forth just doesn't apply in this type of encryption. As to the Public Key part of the argument, once there is general understanding on the above points at large, it might then be worthwhile to discuss the advantages and disadvantages of how to make/distribute Private keys, etc. One gentleman on this forum made an argument recently, something to the effect that it wouldn't be worthwhile for Hacker X to try to break into datastream Y, assuming datastream Y is encoded with such-and-such a key, that datastream Y is sufficiently unimportant, and motive for such a breakin would not be great enough to justify the expected effort. To such arguments, all I can say is, this is the computer age, and enough mundane transactions can add up to something significant, or, one could lower the expected-effort ratio, you get the picture.

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Re: Workers Paradise. /Political rant.
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 11:43 PM 9/15/96, attila wrote: > NO, it does not need to be or do either, BUT, it means > that everybody independently attempts to succeed and the > 'community' takes care of itself --and in the standard > sense, the ne'er do wells fall off the path of *their own > free choice.* There will always be sickness and calamity, > but that is what the community is for. > > BTW, it still works today; I live in one of 'em. And lest there be any doubt, I _do_ support certain kinds of charities, and will not of course stop anyone from practicing charity. While I have no religious beliefs to speak of, I strongly support the mechanisms some churches have for taking care of their own members, recruits from the street, etc. (Including Salvation Army and "mission" sorts of inner city things--note of course that most such entities also insist on prayer and/or Bible readings as part of the deal...I wonder how long it will be before a class action lawsuit is filed to stop the prayer part? This would effectively shut the missions down, of course.) The thing about _traditional_ charity, of the religious or community sort, was that it was not treated as an "entitlement," as something the resentful masses could "demand" as part of their "human rights." A parish priest, for example, might extend charity to a poor person, or a widow, or whatever, but not to an able-bodied person who simply decided to not work. Nor to an unmarried woman who kept getting pregnant and having more mouths to feed. (I surmise that most such women either died of diseases related to sexual promiscuity, died in childbirth, died of disease brought on by malnutrition, or ended up in convents (Catholic birth control).) The point is that even in an "age of charity," strings have to be attached by the givers of charity. People will simply not give 40-60% of what they earn to support a growing population of people who say it's their "right" to welfare, AFDC (Aid to Families with Dependent Children), WIC (Women, Infants, and Children), food stamps (*), and suchlike. (At certain supermarkets I sometimes shop in on the way back to my town, people in front of me in line put their nice cuts of meat down, their fine loaves of bread, their frozen dinner entrees, their "Ben and Jerry's Ice Cream," and then pay for it with books of blue "Department of Agriculture" food stamps. They use their own cash (perhaps gotten by cashing their welfare and "disability" checks) to buy their smokes and booze, as food stamps are not allowed to be spent on this stuff. My impression is that they eat more expensive food than I do, perhaps because they're buying the food with "play money," whereas I'm buying my food with money that's what's left after I had to pay 40-50 taxes, so I seek to economize when I can!) > Now, I don't intend to be Scrooge, but I'll fight for my > rights to cut off at the knees the knee-jerk liberals and > government slavemeisters who want to tell me that I, and > 2 others are required to support 100 freeloaders. And speaking of Scrooge, I like "A Christmas Carol" about as much as anyone I know, and try to take the lesson of what Scrooge learned as a general lesson about life and living it. (As with "Robin Hood," the message is often confused. Robin Hood was not "stealing from the rich," he was taking back what was stolen from the peasants and farmers by the King and his tax collectors, notably the Sheriff of Notingham. At least this is how I read the myth.) --Tim May We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1,257,787-1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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The Living and the Dead
by jya＠pipeline.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

For the vets unable to sleep: The Washington Post has two heart-breaking pieces today on a new book about Vietnam, "The Living and the Dead: Robert McNamara and Five Lives," by Paul Hendrickson. The book tracks the disaster being formulated in 1965 by DC top-down policy interleaved with savagery to five grunts in bloody battle. There's a laudatory review of the grim book, and a long magazine piece gives an excerpt which includes some of Life's photos of a Marine copter gunner's transition from happy-go-lucky, to butchery of buddies, to grief-stricken collapse. It reawakens what's never forgot. That April, 1965, Life photo-essay, "One Ride With Yankee Papa 13," turned up in a sidewalk stall today so we'll put 18 photos on our Web page for a glimpse back to the future of power-mad policy begetting slaughter. http://jya.com/yp01.jpg through http://jya.com/yp18.jpg

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Re: The Living and the Dead
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 01:54 AM 9/16/96 GMT, John Young wrote: > The Washington Post has two heart-breaking pieces today > on a new book about Vietnam, "The Living and the Dead: > Robert McNamara and Five Lives," by Paul Hendrickson. > > The book tracks the disaster being formulated in 1965 by > DC top-down policy interleaved with savagery to five > grunts in bloody battle. > > There's a laudatory review of the grim book, and a long > magazine piece gives an excerpt which includes some of > Life's photos of a Marine copter gunner's transition from > happy-go-lucky, to butchery of buddies, to grief-stricken > collapse. It reawakens what's never forgot. > > That April, 1965, Life photo-essay, "One Ride With Yankee > Papa 13," turned up in a sidewalk stall today so we'll > put 18 photos on our Web page for a glimpse back to the > future of power-mad policy begetting slaughter. ObAP comment: A few weeks ago, the tv show "60 Minutes" ran an item about a group of Jews who, after the end of WWII, vowed revenge on the Nazis, down to German soldiers, plotting to kill as many as they could. In their biggest coup, they killed hundreds of Germans in a POW camp by poisoning their bread. My reaction? As you might expect, I think that the main thing they did wrong was to not kill enough of them, but more particularly to not target the higher-ups. The way I see it, the fundamental reason that people will continue to participate in holocausts, even today, is that they see no real prospect of being punished for their crimes. Unfortunately, society has been conditioned if not to "forgive and forget," at least to not punish where it has an opportunity to punish. I suggest that this is no accident: It is in the interest of tyrants everywhere to let the other guy off easy, lest he be in the same position someday. This is why numerous African and South American dictators were allowed to "retire" in peace, rather than being killed. How would an AP-type system treat Robert McNamara? He'd be dead in a second. To those who say, "What good would this do?" I respond: Anyone in the American government today who is considering an adventure which MIGHT turn into another Vietnam should be deterred by the knowledge that sometime, in 30 minutes or 30 years, he could be killed for what he did. Robert McNamara, presumably, did what he did because he thought he'd never be punished. The best way to deter future governmental abuse is to remind these people that they _will_ be punished. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Re: The Living and the Dead
by jya＠pipeline.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Sep 16, 1996 01:54:40, 'jya(a)pipeline.com (John Young)' wrote: >18 Nam photos on our Web page for a glimpse back to the >future of power-mad policy begetting slaughter. Corrected URL's: http://pwp.usa.pipeline.com/~jya/yp01.jpg through http://pwp.usa.pipeline.com/~jya/yp18.jpg

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Re: Kiddie porn on the Internet
by James A. Donald 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

[Allegations that "save the children" is a political organization providing cover for an effort to ban cryptography] At 01:54 PM 9/9/96 -0400, Hallam-Baker wrote: > Their main mission is sending food to Ethiopia and other famine > areas, development work etc. It is ultra-worthy stuff. Not everyone who sends food to the starving children is ultra respectable. Problem is that the usual cause of starving children is tyranny. In order to get close enough to the starving children to take those cute fund raising photographs you have to pay off and get cosy with tyrants. This creates a moral hazard, in that it is hard to tell the difference between normal bribery needed to do anything in a tyrannical state, and bribery to bribe tyrants to create starving children for photo ops. It is very common for international charities to develop excessively friendly relationships with murderous tyrannies, Monsters do not generally sport horns and a tail. More commonly they walk around on two legs with large neon halos prominently displayed. --------------------------------------------------------------------- | We have the right to defend ourselves | http://www.jim.com/jamesd/ and our property, because of the kind | of animals that we are. True law | James A. Donald derives from this right, not from the | arbitrary power of the state. | jamesd(a)echeque.com

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ComLaw> Down South
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Cross-post from commonlaw(a)teleport.com At 09:11 PM 9/15/96 -0400, James M. Cobb wrote: > 09 14 96 Associated Press distributes a newsstory headed: > > MEXICAN REBELS WARN OF MORE 'SELF-DEFENSE' ATTACKS > AGAINST GOVERNMENT > Points from the newsstory: > Leaders of a violent new rebel group are vowing to > press their war on Mexico's military and police.... > > [Last month's] raids were the most widespread guerril- > la attacks in Mexico in decades. > > ...during the news conference, the rebel leaders... > said that...bomb threats issued since last month's at- > tacks were part of an outside campaign to discredit the > group. > > They said their targets will continue to be government, > not civilian, sites. > Please note that word: OUTSIDE. > > Imported from Atlanta. > "Overnight" via NAFTA Express: > [The rebel group's statement] cited "the TERROR and > desperation caused by unemployment, the drastic reduc- > tion of the buying power of salaries, the lack of at- > tention to health, education and housing." > Cordially, > Jim > NOTE. The AP newsstory's www.nando.net online filename: > > world2_15734.html > I capitalized the Clinton-word in the last quota- > tion. > This critical essay was composed 09 15 96. >From what has appeared in the American media about this new Mexican rebel group, I'm particularly pleased with them. This is exactly the kind of alternative that we need to the stereotypical, "kill lotsa innocent citizens" attacks which are often associated with the term terrorism. They make it clear that they specifically target soldiers, police, and other government employees. After reading a couple of articles, it is obvious what they need: A method to prevent spoofing of their communiques, a function that PGP could do quite easily. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Re: SPL -- Suspicious Persons List
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 09:04 PM 9/15/96 -0400, Phill <hallam(a)ai.mit.edu> wrote: >> Work for the competition, or start your own company. >Easy enough for you or me who can charge the minimum wage rate >for an hour for a period more like a minute. In this part of California, most yard work is done by small companies run by guys named Jose or Pablo, who can charge maybe 2-3x minimum at most before the competition undercuts them. And they have to worry about blacklists also - "business licenses" and "immigration papers". >... >Being opposed to government slavery isn't enough. Coorporate slavery >is just as bad. Unless people are enfranchised ecconmically as >well as politically the political liberties don't matter much. It's not corporate slavery when you don't have to work for them. >I am on an SPL that is run by an organisation called the "Ecconomic >League". It is an organisation run by the UK Conservative party >which keeps lists of "unsafe" employees. Of course the list is (Just because I don't believe in the concept of "corporate slavery" doesn't mean I don't think corporations can be offensive. This sucks...) Out of curiousity, I thought the UK had Data Privacy Laws or some sort of Database Cops - does that not apply to applications like this? # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # <A HREF="http://idiom.com/~wcs"> # You can get PGP software outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto

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"But if it saves just one child."
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 3:51 PM 9/15/96, James A. Donald wrote: ... >Not everyone who sends food to the starving children is ultra >respectable. > >Problem is that the usual cause of starving children is tyranny. ... >It is very common for international charities to develop excessively >friendly relationships with murderous tyrannies, But there is a simple rationale for this behavior... The rallying cry heard so often these days: "But if it saves just one child." Hence the moves to ban guns, the moves to ban cigarettes, the moves to remove violent scenes from movies, books, and video games, and, yes, the close alliances between Save Our Children and the Idi Amins of the world. (Hillary also thinks it takes a village to save the children.) --Tim May, who think GAK and Position Escrow are justified if they save but one child's life. We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1,257,787-1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: Internet Drivers' Licenses
by dlv＠bwalk.dm.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>From paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk Mon Sep 16 05:27:03 1996 Received: by bwalk.dm.com (1.65/waf) via UUCP; Mon, 16 Sep 96 07:19:42 EDT for dlv Received: from relay-4.mail.demon.net by uu.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.061193-PSI/PSINet) via SMTP; id AA14516 for dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com; Mon, 16 Sep 96 05:27:03 -0400 Received: from post.demon.co.uk ([(null)]) by relay-4.mail.demon.net id ak19721; 15 Sep 96 11:16 GMT Received: from fatmans.demon.co.uk ([158.152.120.223]) by relay-3.mail.demon.net id aa23486; 15 Sep 96 11:02 BST Received: from fatmans.demon.co.uk by fatmans.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA842733091 ; Sat, 14 Sep 96 20:31:31 +0000 Comments: Authenticated sender is <paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk> From: paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk To: "Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM" <dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com> Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 20:31:31 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Internet Drivers' Licenses Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.31) Message-Id: <842781779.23486.0(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk> > mpd(a)netcom.com (Mike Duvos) writes: > > A given key could mean "I am Mike Duvos", "I am Tim May" > > Fart. How long is it going to take for you to grow up you trailer butt-fucker? Datacomms Technologies web authoring and data security Paul Bradley, Paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk Http://www.fatmans.demon.co.uk/crypt/ "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey" -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.3ia mQCNAjH9j+cAAAEEAMBvREiQR0ot9dFCO0TiSCSunAYLv2g1Bc6I3bz8FzKXNH53 6mieJf/W4rD+CxJpT0q9RQaaoRtkHJLwbjfK2il3D7mEahMAyqvF/xRJNqkXfhM3 sRJM0Jh43l+W0M5vwokbEbk25/bxWWGspTsLD3YHbzKnG6pOcL5OPIRbv66xAAUR tCdQYXVsIEJyYWRsZXkgPHBhdWxAZmF0bWFucy5kZW1vbi5jby51az6JAJUDBRAy NwfvNkCBjDT0xHEBATQPA/9TORmN/UjNecj03q4anpvdyCLiez5sKuNbnYK50RiP Jj4QpWWvST3smyQ0A86DrZY/re056MXwQmARESx0rFZxdnD0oORICl5r8dJLIy3b j8rbA5olXwZwKz73/X5s13v/pvHYX4cIsbVK8NHXqh5llSKt6TBAuGgkIGF29z5k C4kAlQMFEDI3B9mdtf/umVkv7QEBcRYD/1FBteLqsUmr81euxqqnnrpLlyHb58B/ 9sdATuua4uSjX46hXDZ264YozspNrzSB4NEdrmXOWVX3fiE0ga6XkSSkIeF23V90 En37Z0BdbFzgF00FRYTFyTq8eezQrdg/+rBPUsZUmG5wpq3e12FKHQsX01i+1mB2 YmqqwCV5e95eiQCVAgUQMh8uSb5OPIRbv66xAQEqJwP/fxQyiCasjFcbDpsFfsYp put5cCC/9pOx6X3DlbKShPMpUOS+A9HsTEmJQN8Iawv1nSwPdtc2cR/GhW6ilVjW LSloGdMVLabm9pGpZZMkRaZlXFUkOv7VhfgsUiL+vIDryBCAwUZCzQiWycjt/cPi mUqFH41Z7NkyO8ZFdi5GGX0= =CMZA -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

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Re: 56 kbps modems
by craigw＠dg.ce.com.au 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

That I realize that baud and bit/sec are not the same, but I feel you would have a hard time getting a 56k modem to work on a line that does not support 28.8k fully, let alone 33.6k. A leased line (copper pair) from telstra only supports 9.6k and costs close to ISDN. When the telco reinstalls the literal tons of copper cable that we have lying underground for at least 20 years in some instances that connects the exchanges, and replaces this with optic fibre preferably, or at least higher bandwidth co-ax, we will not have 28k even. In the states you have better lines and ISDN is far less expensive. For two B channels perminantly connected I have to pay about $2500/month in this country. Not many home users can pay this, thus they have to still use modems. With the lack of bandwidth to and from the exchanges, there is not a chance in hell a 56k modem will work in this country for many years. (Australia - the lucky country...not in regards to bandwidth) > As I am sure has been discussed at length before, baud does not equal > bps. AFAIK, V32bis is only 2400baud. ,'~``. \|/ ,'``~. (-o=o-) (@ @) ,(-o=o-), +--.oooO--(_)--Ooo-----oOO-(_)-OOo-------oooO--(_)--Oooo.------+ | | | Soon, we may all be staring at our computers, wondering | | whether they're staring back. | | | | [Network Admin For WPA Business Products. aka doshai >;-) ] | | .oooO http://pip.com.au/~doshai/ Oooo. | | ( ) Oooo. .oooO ( ) | +-----\ (----( )-------oooO-Oooo--------( )--- ) /---------+ \_) ) / \ ( (_/ (_/ \_) Key fingerprint = 2D F4 54 BB B4 EA F1 E7 B6 DE 48 92 FC 8D FF 49 Send a message with the subject "send pgp-key" for a copy of my key. (if I want to give it to you)

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Re: Email Robot draws fire from CypherPunkz
by peter＠baileynm.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Sneck. The points I get out of this: 1. Cypherpunks lives up to its name. Mainly, the second part. 2. Whether an email spam is business related or not, it's neither desirable or interesting. Two years ago having a robot like that might have been amusing. Now it's just another spam. 3. Y'all really oughta read Stand on Zanzibar again. I think you're missing the point.

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New Remailers?
by an401dws＠gold.ac.uk 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

OK dont shoot me, im new to this list so please Bear with me: I recently secured an account with anon.penet and then a few days later got a post informing me that the servive was now terminated. Anybody out there know of any remailers where you dont have to have a Phd in computer science and a thorough working knowledge of PGP in order to operate? Also, are there any remailers which will accept binary attachments? doug

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Re: "Remailers can't afford to be choosy"
by paul＠fatmans.demon.co.uk 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> > Umm.... freedom of the press is freedom for he who owns the press. > >The remailer operators own the presses; why shouldn't they use whatever means > >they see fit to determine how they can be used? I encourage people not to > >discriminate on the basis of the political orientation of what's going > >through... but spam isn't political speech. (I agree that the government > >should not be in the business of determining what is spam and what is > >political speech - all speech should be protected - but remailer operators > >are not governments.) The point here, I think, that we are failing to see is that the remailers are run on private machines and bandwidth, when you use a remailer you are a guest on someone else property, your mail is using their bandwidth etc. They can determine how they like how they are used, I just hope most of us will have the strength of conscience to refrain from using remailers which censor or restrict their throughput, I agree that spam is a different question but we do have our own way of dealing with this, just mailbomb the senders, if they are commercial they are likely to leave an address or telephone number on the spam even if the email address is anonymized, we have ways ;-) <haha evil nazi grin forms on face> Datacomms Technologies web authoring and data security Paul Bradley, Paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk Http://www.fatmans.demon.co.uk/crypt/ "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey" -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.3ia mQCNAjH9j+cAAAEEAMBvREiQR0ot9dFCO0TiSCSunAYLv2g1Bc6I3bz8FzKXNH53 6mieJf/W4rD+CxJpT0q9RQaaoRtkHJLwbjfK2il3D7mEahMAyqvF/xRJNqkXfhM3 sRJM0Jh43l+W0M5vwokbEbk25/bxWWGspTsLD3YHbzKnG6pOcL5OPIRbv66xAAUR tCdQYXVsIEJyYWRsZXkgPHBhdWxAZmF0bWFucy5kZW1vbi5jby51az6JAJUDBRAy NwfvNkCBjDT0xHEBATQPA/9TORmN/UjNecj03q4anpvdyCLiez5sKuNbnYK50RiP Jj4QpWWvST3smyQ0A86DrZY/re056MXwQmARESx0rFZxdnD0oORICl5r8dJLIy3b j8rbA5olXwZwKz73/X5s13v/pvHYX4cIsbVK8NHXqh5llSKt6TBAuGgkIGF29z5k C4kAlQMFEDI3B9mdtf/umVkv7QEBcRYD/1FBteLqsUmr81euxqqnnrpLlyHb58B/ 9sdATuua4uSjX46hXDZ264YozspNrzSB4NEdrmXOWVX3fiE0ga6XkSSkIeF23V90 En37Z0BdbFzgF00FRYTFyTq8eezQrdg/+rBPUsZUmG5wpq3e12FKHQsX01i+1mB2 YmqqwCV5e95eiQCVAgUQMh8uSb5OPIRbv66xAQEqJwP/fxQyiCasjFcbDpsFfsYp put5cCC/9pOx6X3DlbKShPMpUOS+A9HsTEmJQN8Iawv1nSwPdtc2cR/GhW6ilVjW LSloGdMVLabm9pGpZZMkRaZlXFUkOv7VhfgsUiL+vIDryBCAwUZCzQiWycjt/cPi mUqFH41Z7NkyO8ZFdi5GGX0= =CMZA -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

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New type2.list/pubring.mix
by John Perry 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

PGP message

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Re: China joins Singapore, Germany, ....
by dlv＠bwalk.dm.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>From paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk Mon Sep 16 04:22:40 1996 Received: by bwalk.dm.com (1.65/waf) via UUCP; Mon, 16 Sep 96 07:19:49 EDT for dlv Received: from relay-4.mail.demon.net by uu.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.061193-PSI/PSINet) via SMTP; id AA11172 for dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com; Mon, 16 Sep 96 04:22:40 -0400 Received: from post.demon.co.uk ([(null)]) by relay-4.mail.demon.net id ak07550; 15 Sep 96 13:11 GMT Received: from fatmans.demon.co.uk ([158.152.120.223]) by relay-3.mail.demon.net id aa23307; 15 Sep 96 11:02 BST Received: from fatmans.demon.co.uk by fatmans.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA842732056 ; Sat, 14 Sep 96 20:14:16 +0000 Comments: Authenticated sender is <paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk> From: paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk To: "Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM" <dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com> Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 20:14:14 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: China joins Singapore, Germany, .... Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.31) Message-Id: <842781740.23307.0(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk> > > Nazi POWs were Nazis and deserved to be killed. Likewise, American soldiers > are murderous scum. I wish Saddam Hussein the best of luck in killing every > American he can get. > > P.S. Please do not cc: me. Fuck you. Datacomms Technologies web authoring and data security Paul Bradley, Paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk Http://www.fatmans.demon.co.uk/crypt/ "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey" -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.3ia mQCNAjH9j+cAAAEEAMBvREiQR0ot9dFCO0TiSCSunAYLv2g1Bc6I3bz8FzKXNH53 6mieJf/W4rD+CxJpT0q9RQaaoRtkHJLwbjfK2il3D7mEahMAyqvF/xRJNqkXfhM3 sRJM0Jh43l+W0M5vwokbEbk25/bxWWGspTsLD3YHbzKnG6pOcL5OPIRbv66xAAUR tCdQYXVsIEJyYWRsZXkgPHBhdWxAZmF0bWFucy5kZW1vbi5jby51az6JAJUDBRAy NwfvNkCBjDT0xHEBATQPA/9TORmN/UjNecj03q4anpvdyCLiez5sKuNbnYK50RiP Jj4QpWWvST3smyQ0A86DrZY/re056MXwQmARESx0rFZxdnD0oORICl5r8dJLIy3b j8rbA5olXwZwKz73/X5s13v/pvHYX4cIsbVK8NHXqh5llSKt6TBAuGgkIGF29z5k C4kAlQMFEDI3B9mdtf/umVkv7QEBcRYD/1FBteLqsUmr81euxqqnnrpLlyHb58B/ 9sdATuua4uSjX46hXDZ264YozspNrzSB4NEdrmXOWVX3fiE0ga6XkSSkIeF23V90 En37Z0BdbFzgF00FRYTFyTq8eezQrdg/+rBPUsZUmG5wpq3e12FKHQsX01i+1mB2 YmqqwCV5e95eiQCVAgUQMh8uSb5OPIRbv66xAQEqJwP/fxQyiCasjFcbDpsFfsYp put5cCC/9pOx6X3DlbKShPMpUOS+A9HsTEmJQN8Iawv1nSwPdtc2cR/GhW6ilVjW LSloGdMVLabm9pGpZZMkRaZlXFUkOv7VhfgsUiL+vIDryBCAwUZCzQiWycjt/cPi mUqFH41Z7NkyO8ZFdi5GGX0= =CMZA -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

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Re: Internet Drivers' Licenses
by dlv＠bwalk.dm.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>From paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk Mon Sep 16 04:17:55 1996 Received: by bwalk.dm.com (1.65/waf) via UUCP; Mon, 16 Sep 96 07:19:56 EDT for dlv Received: from relay-4.mail.demon.net by uu.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.061193-PSI/PSINet) via SMTP; id AA10926 for dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com; Mon, 16 Sep 96 04:17:55 -0400 Received: from post.demon.co.uk ([(null)]) by relay-4.mail.demon.net id ak19657; 15 Sep 96 11:16 GMT Received: from fatmans.demon.co.uk ([158.152.120.223]) by relay-3.mail.demon.net id aa23377; 15 Sep 96 11:02 BST Received: from fatmans.demon.co.uk by fatmans.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA842732060 ; Sat, 14 Sep 96 20:14:20 +0000 Comments: Authenticated sender is <paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk> From: paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk To: "Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM" <dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com> Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 20:14:14 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Internet Drivers' Licenses Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.31) Message-Id: <842781757.23377.0(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk> > This is the kind of project cypherpunks would do if they were writing code, > instead of lies and personal attacks, the way Tim May (fart) does. Is a Tim May reference compulsory in all of your postings you stupid little man? Datacomms Technologies web authoring and data security Paul Bradley, Paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk Http://www.fatmans.demon.co.uk/crypt/ "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey" -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.3ia mQCNAjH9j+cAAAEEAMBvREiQR0ot9dFCO0TiSCSunAYLv2g1Bc6I3bz8FzKXNH53 6mieJf/W4rD+CxJpT0q9RQaaoRtkHJLwbjfK2il3D7mEahMAyqvF/xRJNqkXfhM3 sRJM0Jh43l+W0M5vwokbEbk25/bxWWGspTsLD3YHbzKnG6pOcL5OPIRbv66xAAUR tCdQYXVsIEJyYWRsZXkgPHBhdWxAZmF0bWFucy5kZW1vbi5jby51az6JAJUDBRAy NwfvNkCBjDT0xHEBATQPA/9TORmN/UjNecj03q4anpvdyCLiez5sKuNbnYK50RiP Jj4QpWWvST3smyQ0A86DrZY/re056MXwQmARESx0rFZxdnD0oORICl5r8dJLIy3b j8rbA5olXwZwKz73/X5s13v/pvHYX4cIsbVK8NHXqh5llSKt6TBAuGgkIGF29z5k C4kAlQMFEDI3B9mdtf/umVkv7QEBcRYD/1FBteLqsUmr81euxqqnnrpLlyHb58B/ 9sdATuua4uSjX46hXDZ264YozspNrzSB4NEdrmXOWVX3fiE0ga6XkSSkIeF23V90 En37Z0BdbFzgF00FRYTFyTq8eezQrdg/+rBPUsZUmG5wpq3e12FKHQsX01i+1mB2 YmqqwCV5e95eiQCVAgUQMh8uSb5OPIRbv66xAQEqJwP/fxQyiCasjFcbDpsFfsYp put5cCC/9pOx6X3DlbKShPMpUOS+A9HsTEmJQN8Iawv1nSwPdtc2cR/GhW6ilVjW LSloGdMVLabm9pGpZZMkRaZlXFUkOv7VhfgsUiL+vIDryBCAwUZCzQiWycjt/cPi mUqFH41Z7NkyO8ZFdi5GGX0= =CMZA -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

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RE: Workers Paradise. /Political rant.
by jbugden＠smtplink.alis.ca 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

tcmay(a)got.net (Timothy C. May) writes: > Crypto Anarchy means getting rid of deadwood the old-fashioned way. dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) wrote: >Starting with the lying old fart himself. You shouldn't be so hard on Tim. I tried giving up farting years ago but I found I gained a lot of weight. It's also become more socially acceptable as evidenced by the new farting section in many English pubs. They even have a special section for me on some international flights. And unlike smoking, you *can* do it in the toilet. Besides, it can't be worse than smoking. Unless, perhaps, you do both at the same time... Cheers, James

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Re: 56 kbps modems
by Remo Pini 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Date: Mon Sep 16 15:59:53 1996 I think I have to throw in some words here, too: 1. BAUD is one distingushable signal form. 2. BPS is bits per second 3. NO transmission over a standard phoneline can have more than 3100 baud, because the frequency of anything transmitted over that line is band limited to 300hz - 3400hz. (If you have ISDN it's not relevant anyway, since you are fixed with 8000hz or 64000 bps->in europe :), 56000 bps in usa) 4. Most modern transmission schemes work with multiple bits per baud. I.e. you transmit 10 bits in one baud if you have a 31000 bps modem. the only limitation in transmission speed is the amount of binary values you can pack into one baud. that on the other hand is limited by the S/N (signal to noise) ratio of your line. If you have a noise of 0.9%, you can't use more than 100 steps or you have ambiguous signals. since people talk about 56000 bps modems (we tried 34000 modems here and they couldn't produce more than 28800 on a very good connection) that would mean, that you have to transmit 18 bits = 262144 (!) distinguishable signal forms per baud. Comments? Remo Pini - ------< fate favors the prepared mind >------ Remo Pini rp(a)rpini.com PGP: http://www.rpini.com/crypto/crypto.html - ----< words are what reality is made of >---- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBMj1dWhFhy5sz+bTpAQHmVAgAqRHydyZdElXlwMSgdKB6hg1fDBCMfhia JoI5W8n0JLcKe9HYN/H0DPqFHHDIATEhlN3b3OIhYCw52cNJ/e3b9Nbp5RQo+sDX zAogz5wZiDV7EA/gL589lNQZ9VKHlgTYBLzu1tqyJ5cD2KhWEUjvXyN4lYuxcEQT NIaiNPeYXrC0BeoLa/AE8mCrtu+7nhxy5HlSjDiu3lEYaVygKIPQHM3+Ljzq0jkq bmbqJbTyZshos+5gxHyXLsbL8rkpST53YT4Z3clL6PCv1ntNGXtb/loWgIDallYJ bHgfh/bAS5Utg7fpzuVNS8AJV8L2VLirScBd4Bq5RAXZxnoTVVQxOw== =9JSI -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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List of reliable remailers
by Raph Levien 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I operate a remailer pinging service which collects detailed information about remailer features and reliability. To use it, just finger remailer-list(a)kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu There is also a Web version of the same information, plus lots of interesting links to remailer-related resources, at: http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~raph/remailer-list.html This information is used by premail, a remailer chaining and PGP encrypting client for outgoing mail. For more information, see: http://www.c2.org/~raph/premail.html For the PGP public keys of the remailers, finger pgpkeys(a)kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu This is the current info: REMAILER LIST This is an automatically generated listing of remailers. The first part of the listing shows the remailers along with configuration options and special features for each of the remailers. The second part shows the 12-day history, and average latency and uptime for each remailer. You can also get this list by fingering remailer-list(a)kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu. $remailer{"extropia"} = "<remail(a)miron.vip.best.com> cpunk pgp special"; $remailer{"c2"} = "<remail(a)c2.org> eric pgp hash reord"; $remailer{"penet"} = "<anon(a)anon.penet.fi> penet post"; $remailer{"flame"} = "<remailer(a)flame.alias.net> cpunk mix pgp. hash latent cut post reord"; $remailer{"mix"} = "<mixmaster(a)remail.obscura.com> cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ek ksub reord ?"; $remailer{"replay"} = "<remailer(a)replay.com> cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut post ek"; $remailer{"ecafe"} = "<cpunk(a)remail.ecafe.org> cpunk mix"; $remailer{"amnesia"} = "<amnesia(a)chardos.connix.com> cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ksub"; $remailer{'alpha'} = '<alias(a)alpha.c2.org> alpha pgp'; $remailer{'nymrod'} = '<nymrod(a)nym.jpunix.com> alpha pgp'; $remailer{"lead"} = "<mix(a)zifi.genetics.utah.edu> cpunk pgp hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"nemesis"} = "<remailer(a)meaning.com> cpunk pgp hash latent cut"; $remailer{"exon"} = "<remailer(a)remailer.nl.com> cpunk pgp hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"vegas"} = "<remailer(a)vegas.gateway.com> cpunk pgp hash latent cut"; $remailer{"haystack"} = "<haystack(a)holy.cow.net> cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"ncognito"} = "<ncognito(a)rigel.cyberpass.net> mix cpunk pgp hash latent"; $remailer{"lucifer"} = "<lucifer(a)dhp.com> cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"jam"} = "<remailer(a)cypherpunks.ca> cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"winsock"} = "<winsock(a)c2.org> cpunk pgp hash cut ksub reord"; $remailer{'nym'} = '<config(a)nym.alias.net> newnym pgp'; $remailer{"balls"} = "<remailer(a)huge.cajones.com> cpunk pgp hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"squirrel"} = "<mix(a)squirrel.owl.de> cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"middle"} = "<middleman(a)jpunix.com> cpunk mix pgp hash middle latent cut ek reord"; $remailer{'cyber'} = '<alias(a)alias.cyberpass.net> alpha pgp'; $remailer{"dustbin"} = "<dustman(a)athensnet.com> cpunk pgp hash ksub latent cut ek mix reord"; catalyst(a)netcom.com is _not_ a remailer. lmccarth(a)ducie.cs.umass.edu is _not_ a remailer. usura(a)replay.com is _not_ a remailer. Groups of remailers sharing a machine or operator: (cyber mix) The alpha and nymrod nymservers are down due to abuse. However, you can use the cyber nymserver. The nym.alias.net server will be listed soon. See http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~raph/n.a.n.html for details. 403 Permission denied errors have been caused by a flaky disk on the Berkeley WWW server. Hopefully, this is fixed by now. The penet remailer is closed. Last update: Mon 16 Sep 96 6:48:06 PDT remailer email address history latency uptime ----------------------------------------------------------------------- exon remailer(a)remailer.nl.com *#**##*#***# 1:16 100.00% jam remailer(a)cypherpunks.ca *****++***** 17:07 99.99% squirrel mix(a)squirrel.owl.de -+++---++++ 2:04:26 99.98% mix mixmaster(a)remail.obscura.com +++++++++--+ 1:01:22 99.98% lead mix(a)zifi.genetics.utah.edu + -++*++++++ 41:18 99.84% amnesia amnesia(a)chardos.connix.com ----------- 3:38:09 99.82% dustbin dustman(a)athensnet.com -+ ++----+ 1:24:30 99.74% cyber alias(a)alias.cyberpass.net * **+ ++*+ * 33:26 99.37% extropia remail(a)miron.vip.best.com ------.--.- 13:13:34 99.13% haystack haystack(a)holy.cow.net *###-#*##### 3:35 98.87% middle middleman(a)jpunix.com -- - --+ 2:53:19 98.74% replay remailer(a)replay.com ****+* ***** 4:45 98.13% winsock winsock(a)c2.org --- -+--++ 1:20:34 97.83% balls remailer(a)huge.cajones.com ******** * 5:06 88.34% nemesis remailer(a)meaning.com * 24:33 4.73% History key * # response in less than 5 minutes. * * response in less than 1 hour. * + response in less than 4 hours. * - response in less than 24 hours. * . response in more than 1 day. * _ response came back too late (more than 2 days). cpunk A major class of remailers. Supports Request-Remailing-To: field. eric A variant of the cpunk style. Uses Anon-Send-To: instead. penet The third class of remailers (at least for right now). Uses X-Anon-To: in the header. pgp Remailer supports encryption with PGP. A period after the keyword means that the short name, rather than the full email address, should be used as the encryption key ID. hash Supports ## pasting, so anything can be put into the headers of outgoing messages. ksub Remailer always kills subject header, even in non-pgp mode. nsub Remailer always preserves subject header, even in pgp mode. latent Supports Matt Ghio's Latent-Time: option. cut Supports Matt Ghio's Cutmarks: option. post Post to Usenet using Post-To: or Anon-Post-To: header. ek Encrypt responses in reply blocks using Encrypt-Key: header. special Accepts only pgp encrypted messages. mix Can accept messages in Mixmaster format. reord Attempts to foil traffic analysis by reordering messages. Note: I'm relying on the word of the remailer operator here, and haven't verified the reord info myself. mon Remailer has been known to monitor contents of private email. filter Remailer has been known to filter messages based on content. If not listed in conjunction with mon, then only messages destined for public forums are subject to filtering. Raph Levien

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RE: Workers Paradise. /Political rant.
by jbugden＠smtplink.alis.ca 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

tcmay(a)got.net (Timothy C. May) wrote: >"Saving for a rainy day," whether saving, investing, getting an education (while others are out partying), preparing, etc., all takes effort and commitment. If those who save and prepare are then told they have to pay high taxes to support those who partied....well, the predictable effect [...] is _more_ people in agony. When you tell people that a compassionate society will meet their basic needs, a predictable fraction of them will choose not to work hard and prepare themselves. Two questions, two observations: Do you have health insurance? Do you have life insurance? I have commented on your line of reasoning before and and it still seems to me that an important part of the discussion is missed. Specifically, that anyone can "save for a rainy day" and still not be able to provide for events that can always happen: Heart attack, stroke, car accident, pinched nerve that leaves you in excruciating pain and unable to work for several years. I don't think that a reasonable person would argue that medical insurance should be outlawed because everyone should take care of their own needs. A social safety net is simply a form of health and life insurance. Statistical arbitrage if you will. By spreading the risk you minimize the cost. Yes, some people will take advantage of the system. But like a virus, a robust system should be able to withstand this form of attack. I'm reminded of a Bloom County cartoon with Opus, Steve Dallas and Bill the cat sitting on a park bench as a jogger runs past. he derides the trio saying, "I jog three miles and work out every day, eat only healthy foods, and have regular medical checkups. I'll live twice as long as you lazy slobs." In the next panel the jogger is hit by lightning as the trio on the bench look on in shock. The last panel: "Here's to no guarantees!" and "Pass the ding dongs." Prend soin, James [Bible excerpt awaiting review as a motivation for human decency.] The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully: And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits? And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods. And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry. But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided? [excerpted from Luke 12:16-20, King James Version]

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Re: Workers Paradise. /Political rant.
by Rick Smith 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Asgaard wrote: : .... But suppose the population problem could : be fixed. Then, with technology escalating towards singularity, : machines doing almost all labor, there could certainly exist a : system where the 'dumb' and 'lazy' could be fed and housed properly : without anybody complaining. I'm always fascinated when people trot out this notion of technology giving us a maintenance free world that provides all our needs. Like Rifkin's "End of Work." I'm sorry but I just don't see how the problems of food and shelter are solved simply because we've automated the production of bank statements. All the really effective automation has involved symbolic activities, not the basic stuff of life, like food and shelter. : P.S. Mac Donalds could easily be replaced by a bot. Very unlikely. Despite the incredible degree of mechanization that happens in food production, *most* of it requires people in the loop. Part of it is health concerns -- you're far more likely to poison a significant portion of the population if you don't keep active human involvement in food production. But there's also a lot having to do with the structure of the work. You *can't* send a robot tractor into the fields and expect it to treat your corn right. And milking machines, well .... I did a lot with fault tolerance and industrial robotics in a previous life. Robots work fine in highly structured environments. Their value decreases dramatically as you remove structure. In unstructured environments they're either useless or just plain dangerous. Even the so called "industrialized" farms are wildly unstructured compared to a factory floor. And there's little reason to assume that 'biological units' (plants and animals produced for food) in a fully structured factory-like setting will yield all the products necessary for an adequate food supply. It seems that whenever we develop a "complete" model of what people need to survive and subject a few people to it, we discover that something fatal has been left out. : But to force people into menial service jobs just to literally : survive is not to my taste. No, give them minimal shelter for : nothing and from there on let the market anarcho-capitalistic : struggle begin, for obtaining a higher than minimum material : standard or reputational standing. I suspect that the Real World will always require a large portion of the available labor pool to do work that supports the production of food and shelter. The support has gotten pretty indirect in modern industrialized countries, I admit. Rick. smith(a)sctc.com

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