December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: WaPo on Crypto-Genie Terrorism
by Charley Sparks 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I occasionally get invited to teach at a local college.. some students are not US. Anyone have any suggestions on a way I can sneek some good privacy into the lesson plan.. the course is usually the Internet or networking in general. Charley >>snip snip<< >as things stand now, windoze folks are going to have to settle with >Mcro$ofts Access to Keys...MAK or is it Bill's Access to Keys.. BAK in any >case I didnt want to get into a my pulldownmenu is longer than your >pulldownmenu argument.. I just want to see it get on the radar fo people >who code. > >You see I dont care what your favorite platform is,( if you like editing in >VI fine, I personnly like TECO), BUT I am acting localy, doing my part, >not just complaining about it... So if you want to help, I am still looking >for folks to talk... maybe about why crypto is so important. >Crypto-archarchy. or maybe some e$ stuff would be nice... > > > >Vinnie Moscaritolo >------------------ >"friends come and friends go..but enemies accumulate." >http://www.vmeng.com/vinnie/ >Fingerprint: 4FA3298150E404F2782501876EA2146A > > >

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ABC
by dlv＠bwalk.dm.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I just heard something funny on ABC: Interviewer: Is this the kind of bomb the militias like to use? Interviewee: Yes, it's a pipe bomb. Of course, you can find out on the Internet how to make these... (Well, _I thought this was funny.) I hereby volunteer Jim Bell to write the Cyperpunk bomb-making FAQ. Or a more general chemical FAQ including common poisons. Are you up to this task, Jim? :-) --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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Re: ALL OF YOU ARE CRIMINAL HACKERS, I AM GOING TO CALL FBI
by anonymous-remailer＠shell.portal.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>I AM NOT GOING TO TOLERATE EXISTENCE OF A MEDIUM FOR CRIMINAL HACKERS >AND MUNITIONS SMUGGLERS. I WILL COMPLAIN TO THE FBI IMMEDIATELY SO THAT THEY >CAN TRACK YOU DOWN AND CLOSE THIS LIST. Tips for reporting this 'clandestine' list to the FBI (and it's contributors) 1) Be sure to speak slowly and use small words when contacting the FBI. 2) If you can, be sure to work the words 'Pipe Bomb', 'Olympics', and/or 'TWA' into your sentences. 3) Remember to unsubscribe from the list before reporting it. 4) Try not to be belligerant when the talking with the FBI - RE: tracking down cpunks; they're laughing at you, already. 5) Try not to use the word 'inbred' in your report..they seem particullarly sensitive to this...for some reason. 6) When meeting FBI in person, do not wear shiny objects or bright colors - it distracts them. 7) When calling the FBI hotline, don't ask to speak to someone about munition smuggling AND computers crimez - this will put the operator into coma. 8) Be sure to ask for special agent 'Fox Mulder' and 'Dana Sculley' - they're 'the best' 9) 10)... _______ Warren Crossfield Programmer/MacOS "Buy a Pentium - so you can restart Windoze faster!"

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[NOISE] Rich Graves is accused of forgery and other net-abuse
by dlv＠bwalk.dm.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hmm, I though Rich Graves was a Nazi, but now the Nazis reject him too. :-) Message-ID: <012317Z28071996(a)anon.penet.fi> Path: ...!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!news.eunet.fi!anon.penet.fi Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism,news.groups,alt.internet.media-coverage,news.admin.net-abuse.misc,c2.chat,alt.cyberpunk,soc.culture.jewish From: an572010(a)anon.penet.fi (Vyshinsky) X-Anonymously-To: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism,news.groups,alt.internet.media-coverage,news.admin.net-abuse.misc,c2.chat,alt.cyberpunk,soc.culture.jewish Organization: Anonymous forwarding service Reply-To: an572010(a)anon.penet.fi Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 01:21:24 UTC Subject: Re: Spammed by a Nazi obssessive References: <schwartz-2507960756390001(a)cmh-p091.infinet.com> <joelr.3533.000B045C(a)winternet.com> <4t8nk8$3ic(a)Networking.Stanford.EDU> Lines: 80 [multi-mailed to llurch(a)stanford.edu, postmaster(a)stanford.edu, and postmaster(a)c2.net] llurch(a)stanford.edu writes: > joelr(a)winternet.com (Joel Rosenberg) writes: > >In article <schwartz-2507960756390001(a)cmh-p091.infinet.com> schwartz(a)infinet.com writes: > > > >>Maybe someone should mention to Ingrid that this little crap works both > >>ways. She may have been spammed, so are we. > >> > >>Sara > > > >I got the same spew, and sent back a message, with a copy to the root, that > >I want no further email from these folks. No big deal. > > > Right. It's not. > > It doesn't work both ways. Neither way is acceptable. Fortunately, with > the exceptions of Skippy, Giwer, and Marduk, whom nobody loves, nobody > seems to be into continuing net abuse after they've been notified that > it's wrong. You, postmaster(a)c2.org, postmaster(a)stanford.edu and news.admin.net-abuse.misc were notified about forged cancels by you against others. Did you stop since? Your practice of posting to a lot of newsgroups with a followup-to line for an "enemy" newsgroup, is the classic practice of trolling. Most of the newsreaders wont see the rebuttals, and presume that your post was unchallenged, so inspiring a rebuttal with the same arguments that have already been made. You've not stopped regardless of the number of complaints. Your practice of forging your e-mail address away from your true e-mail address is also net abuse. This is an obvious taking advantage of sameer(a)c2.net, a net hero, the admin of your ISP, that you are maliciously taking advantage of to avoid complaints of your actual e-mail address, llurch(a)stanford.edu, whom you work for. Whoever "Skippy" is, she has not forged cancels since March 1996, and has never done the other abuses you deal out in prolific quantity. Are you going to stop these three net abuses because of yet another complaint? You haven't before. --****ATTENTION****--****ATTENTION****--****ATTENTION****--***ATTENTION*** Your e-mail reply to this message WILL be *automatically* ANONYMIZED. Please, report inappropriate use to abuse(a)anon.penet.fi For information (incl. non-anon reply) write to help(a)anon.penet.fi If you have any problems, address them to admin(a)anon.penet.fi

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Re: WaPo on Crypto-Genie Terrorism
by shamrock＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 9:35 7/28/96, Charley Sparks wrote: >I occasionally get invited to teach at a local college.. some students are >not US. Anyone have any suggestions on a way I can sneek some good privacy >into the lesson plan.. the course is usually the Internet or networking in >general. Ignore ITAR. It is unconstitutional. BTW, independently from what the Supreme Court may ore may not decide. -- Lucky Green <mailto:shamrock@netcom.com> PGP encrypted mail preferred. Defeat the Demopublican Unity Party. Vote no on Clinton/Dole in November. Vote Harry Browne for President.

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Re: Internet blamed for pipe bombs
by shamrock＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 5:36 7/28/96, E. ALLEN SMITH wrote: >> Across the country, latest figures from the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, >> Tobacco and Firearms show a 20 percent jump in pipe bomb incidents >> between 1990 and 1994. > >[...] > >> "We've been incredibly busy," said sheriff's bomb technician Judd >> Holiday. "As crime in other categories is dropping, this is going up." The friendly Anarchist's Bookstore in San Francisco sells several books on building bombs. No Internet connection required. I would like offer another possible explanation for the increase in pipe bombings. The People are getting frustrated and a pipe bomb can be very useful device releasing one's frustration. [No, I do not approve of pipe bombing civilians]. -- Lucky Green <mailto:shamrock@netcom.com> PGP encrypted mail preferred. Defeat the Demopublican Unity Party. Vote no on Clinton/Dole in November. Vote Harry Browne for President.

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De facto martial law
by anonymous-remailer＠shell.portal.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Assoc. Press, 28-Jul-1996 Federal investigators reported "very good leads" Sunday in the hunt for the Olympic bomber, and the Georgia National Guard mobilized fresh troops to add muscle to the force protecting against a repeat attack. [...] Huge crowds, including more than 80,000 at the stadium, seemed undeterred by tougher security screening and fears of terrorism. "The more they check us, the happier I am," Nancy Hudgins, of Stone Mountain, Ga., said at a handball game in the Georgia Congress Center. [...] The Georgia state government said it would dispatch by Monday morning an additional National Guard infantry battalion, the 121st from Macon, to supplement the civilian bag-searchers, metal-detector operators and guards at Atlanta Olympic sites. About 4,000 guardsmen are already deployed on any one day here. The battalion would add "a few hundred" to that contingent, government spokesmen said. The civilian, police and military security army on hand here totals some 30,000. The White House said Sunday about 900 FBI agents are now assigned to Olympic duty. [...] 27-Jul-1996 The Olympics turned into an armed encampment Saturday, police and soldiers and bomb-sniffing dogs everywhere, all athletes and fans subject to search, the free spirit of the Summer Games suddenly gone. The bomb that killed a woman and injured more than 100 people, among the thousands jolted at a rock concert in Centennial Olympic Park at 1:25 a.m., instantly transformed the Games into fields of fear. Sentries wielding machine guns and rifles guarded gates and patrolled buildings from basements to rooftops. Officers conducted meticulous searches of vehicles, checking under them with extended mirrors the way a dentist probes for cavities. [...] Security, already on high alert since the TWA Flight 800 explosion, became more visible all over. Soldiers carrying machine guns scout[ed] the rowing site at Lake Lanier, in normal times a peaceful recreational community. Reuters, 07/28 Olympics-FBI search man's home in bomb hunt, paper A man from rural north Georgia says the FBI searched his home for clues to the weekend bombing at Atlanta's Centennial Olympic Park, a newspaper reported on Sunday. The Daily Citizen-News of Dalton quoted 41-year-old Terry Roper of Rocky Face, Georgia, as saying that investigators showed up at his remote country home on Saturday and searched the house, the yard and his vehicles with bomb-sniffing dogs. [...] The federal agents left after the search, telling the man they would be in touch, the newspaper said. [...] "I was home here all night long. I haven't been to Atlanta in a year or so," it quoted Roper as saying. He said he knows nothing about bomb-making. [...] The newspaper said police were acting on an anonymous tip phoned into its circulation department by an unidentified caller. Roper told the newspaper he believed the call stemmed from a workplace conversation about precautions against terrorism at Olympic venues. "I never have mentioned nothing about making a bomb, blowing anything up or anything like that. I don't know how to make a bomb," he was quoted as saying. 07/28 Olympics-Militia group condemns attack, calls it ... An extreme rightwing Georgia militia on Sunday denied responsibility for an explosion at the Atlanta Olympics in which two people died, and a member held on previous bomb charges called it a cowardly act. J.J. Johnson, a co-founder of the "112th Regiment Militia-at-Large for the Republic of Georgia" told a news conference they were angry over press suggestions that they planted the pipe bomb among Olympic revellers early on Saturday. "We categorically deny having any knowledge of this or anything to do with this," he said. "Atlanta now looks like a virtual police state, which is something the patriots and militia have fought against. Why would we do something to bring that about?" said Johnson, a radio talk show host who moved to Georgia from Ohio. [...] Johnson and militia attorney Nancy Lord offered to assist the FBI by providing investigators with names of potential bomb-makers from around the state. The names turned out to belong to informants for the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) [...] "They're the only people we know of in the Georgia area who like to talk about pipe bombs, who like to build pipe bombs," said Lord [...]

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Re: Schelling Points leads to interesting family investment opportunities
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 12:41 PM 7/28/96, Ian Grigg wrote: >Hi Tim, > >you said: >> The _costs_ of extending beyond the Schelling point boundaries >> is deemed to be too high, and the boundary persists. > >This reminds me of the transactional theory of business units. >Working from memory, the optimal size of a business unit is >positively related to the cost of the transactions conducted >between units, other things being held constant. > >Thus, in a place where it is "expensive to do business" the >dominant form of company will be large. Conversely in a >cheap business environment, small companies will predominate. >This notion spurs one to examine the transactional costs and >to decide (or not) to lower them... Yes, I think these things are deeply intertwined. Coase's work on the nature of corporations, for example. (Another connection is that economics and markets are largely about "signalling mechanisms," and it can be argued that prices are variants of Schelling points, albeit hopping around as other market players jockey for advantage.) >The interesting part for your family context is that falling >transaction costs have purportedly produced a shift away from >large companies to smaller units. Those falling costs are in >the sphere of digital communications, other technology, and >regulation. If such were to apply to the context of families, >upbringing children and education in general, one might >predict that the size of the family should shrink. Which it has, as you note. The availability of microwave dinners, transportation to new jobs, new employment patterns, and other factors too numerable to mention are correlated fairly strongly with a reduction in the size of the average family. >One would then be lead to ask, if you are proposing that >Internet technologies in general and crypto in particular >are influences on the Schelling points related to the family >rights set, can this result in smaller family units? I wouldn't go quite _this_ far! (And it's hard to go too much further than we have already...as you noted, increasing numbers of Westerners are single.) Certainly your comments are generally relevant and interesting, and sociologists should have fun examining the economic, game-theoretic, psychological, and other factors that are interlinked. --Tim May Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Feinstein wants controls on Internet, Books
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

One of my senators, Senator Dianne Feinstein, is now arguing on CNN for controls on information put on the Internet, on censorship of books and articles describing how pipe bombs work, and for making it easier to get wiretaps against those suspected of committing thought crimes. One or two more major incidents on top of the recent ones (World Trade Center, Oklahoma City, Dharan, TWA 800, and Olympic Village) and I suspect Congress will simply vote to repeal the Bill of Rights and just be done with this whole experiment in liberty. --Tim May Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: ALL OF YOU ARE CRIMIN
by pjn＠nworks.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> At 09:33 PM 7/26/96 -0700, anonymous-remailer(a)shell.portal.com wrote: >I AM NOT GOING TO TOLERATE EXISTENCE OF A MEDIUM FOR CRIMINAL HACKERS >AND MUNITIONS SMUGGLERS. I WILL COMPLAIN TO THE FBI IMMEDIATELY SO THAT THEY >CAN TRACK YOU DOWN AND CLOSE THIS LIST. > Damnit Sen. Exxon! We told you not to use the computer!! :) P.J. pjn(a)nworks.com ... "The future of robotics" Ä by Cy Borg and Anne Droid ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]

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cypherpunks vs hackers
by pjn＠nworks.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In> How can we differentiate cypherpunks to hackers? What are their In> attitudes, psychological thinking, main objective? It is interesting to note that while both groups have opposite objectives (Hackers want all information free, where cypherpunks want everbody to be able to have privacy), and yet in there own ways, they are both right. I think what we need to define is the diffrence between hackers and crackers. A hacker breaks into a computer like a cracker (but the similarities end there). The hacker just want to look and learn, possably "map out" the system just to see how everything works with everything else. Crackers break into computers for the sake of destroying or stealing information or the system itself. Both cypherpunks and hackers think that the government is wrong in many things that they do. P.J. pjn(a)nworks.com ... It would seem that evil retreats when forcibly confronted. - Excalbian ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]

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Re: WaPo on Crypto-Genie
by pjn＠nworks.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In> Why does it sounds like Mr. Freeh and his friends are drinking out of In> a different bottle than the rest of us? Why does it sound like they have been drinking period? <VBG> P.J. pjn(a)nworks.com ... He's not exactly working on all thrusters. - Mcoy ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]

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[noise] Re: WaPo on Crypto-Genie
by Alan Olsen 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 12:59 PM 7/28/96 -0500, pjn(a)nworks.com wrote: > In> Why does it sounds like Mr. Freeh and his friends are drinking out of > In> a different bottle than the rest of us? > > Why does it sound like they have been drinking period? <VBG> I would guess it is either "Night Train", "Thunderbird", or one of those French wines with the anti-freeze added for extra "kick". --- Alan Olsen -- alano(a)teleport.com -- Contract Web Design & Instruction `finger -l alano(a)teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key http://www.teleport.com/~alano/ "We had to destroy the Internet in order to save it." - Sen. Exon "Microsoft -- Nothing but NT promises."

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Re: Internet blamed for pipe bombs
by Alan Olsen 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 08:30 AM 7/28/96 -0700, Lucky Green wrote: >At 5:36 7/28/96, E. ALLEN SMITH wrote: > >>> Across the country, latest figures from the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, >>> Tobacco and Firearms show a 20 percent jump in pipe bomb incidents >>> between 1990 and 1994. >> >>[...] >> >>> "We've been incredibly busy," said sheriff's bomb technician Judd >>> Holiday. "As crime in other categories is dropping, this is going up." > >The friendly Anarchist's Bookstore in San Francisco sells several books on >building bombs. No Internet connection required. I would like offer another >possible explanation for the increase in pipe bombings. The People are >getting frustrated and a pipe bomb can be very useful device releasing >one's frustration. The local PBS station had a program on bomb detection and manufacture. It included a section with someone from the BATF explaining how Pipebombs work and included slow motion video. (It might have been an episode of NOVA. I came in in the middle.) It even included information about how nails and screws would be included for extra schrapnel. (Maybe this is part of a plot to remove funding from PBS once and for all...) The media and government types who are blaming the Internet for pipebombs do not get out enough. I have seen good working descriptions in books since I was a small child. (Of course, I actually read books as a child. And not just the pablum they expect kids to read nowadays.) Of course, since when have government and media pronouncements have had anything to do with the real world and/or truth... --- Alan Olsen -- alano(a)teleport.com -- Contract Web Design & Instruction `finger -l alano(a)teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key http://www.teleport.com/~alano/ "We had to destroy the Internet in order to save it." - Sen. Exon "Microsoft -- Nothing but NT promises."

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overwhelmed/overloaded
by mallet＠juno.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Clearly, some of us aren't exhibiting the proper sensitivity to the feelings of others. This can't continue. But it will. So, live with it. Maybe we could have a cypherpunk nanny who exhorts niceness from a bully pulpit, but please can we keep it to one nanny? May it could be a rotating honor. Flame away, nannies.

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Re: cypherpunks vs hackers
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 5:59 PM 7/28/96, pjn(a)nworks.com wrote: > In> How can we differentiate cypherpunks to hackers? What are their > In> attitudes, psychological thinking, main objective? > > It is interesting to note that while both groups have opposite > objectives (Hackers want all information free, where cypherpunks want > everbody to be able to have privacy), and yet in there own ways, they > are both right. I don't believe this is an accurate picture of "what hackers want." The "information wants to be free" view is one facet of the outlook of many--but not all--hackers. Rather than debate semantics of the definition of "hacker," or ask others to suggest definitions, it might be better for interested folks to read some of the various books on the topic and then decide for themselves. Some of them are: - Levy, "Hackers," of course - Haffner and Markoff, "Cyberpunk" - Sterling's book on hackers - any one (but not more) of the several Shimomura v. Mitnick books etc. --Tim Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Terrorist voice recognition
by nobody＠vegas.gateway.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Does anyone else find it odd that the tape of the 911 call, threatening the terrorist bomb at the Olympic Park, still hasn't been released to the media? It would seem that there is at least a possibility that someone could know this person's voice and finger him for the feds... I have a [disturbing, hence anonymous] explanation: The feds figure they have already got a pool of people who can recognise the voice of a pipe-bomber, as sworn courtroom admissions show that the previous pipebombs' burial locations, supposedly known to "the Georgia Militia," were actually only known to a single government informant infiltrator. [The media, for some strange reason, didn't choose to report this little item. The militia case has now been delayed.] Hmmmmmmmm.

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Re: Feinstein wants controls on Internet, Books
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 02:26 AM 7/29/96 -0700, tcmay(a)got.net (Timothy C. May) wrote: >One of my senators, Senator Dianne Feinstein, is now arguing on CNN for >controls on information put on the Internet, on censorship of books and >articles describing how pipe bombs work, and for making it easier to get >wiretaps against those suspected of committing thought crimes. Unlike many pro-censorship ideas from your Congresscritters and fedcops, Federal courts have dealt with this one, at least for magazines. "The Progressive" wanted to publish the plans for hydrogen bombs a few years back, and a federal district court issued a restraining order to prevent publication. Another magazine published the article, and a federal appeals court dismissed the case. (United States v. The Progressive, 467 F.Supp. 990 (W.D. Wis.), dismissed without opinion, 610 F.2d 819 (7th Cir. 1979).) Prior restraint is extremely difficult to get away with, and when the information is already widely available, such as simple pipe bombs, it's just not tenable. Now, there are subtleties to building them that may require some amount of thought, rather than being totally obvious to the builder, and there are things that are obvious but are difficult to do. For instance, say you, hypothetically, wanted to blow up your government's legislative building. You'd obviously want to pick a dark and stormy night, say early in November, and you'd sneak into the basement with barrels of gunpowder. You'd use a long, slow-burning fuse, so it would blow up the next day when they're in session, but after lighting it you'd still run away very fast just in case your fuse speeds up on you. The obvious thing you'd need to do is to NOT GET CAUGHT LIKE THE LAST FOOL WHO TRIED IT. However, if you do get caught, maybe you'll end up with your name in lights and people will set off firecrackers in your honor every fall, while if you don't get caught you won't be personally famous. Tough choice:-) Penny for the Guy? # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # <A HREF="http://idiom.com/~wcs"> # Dispel Authority!

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your favorite poison recipes
by anonymous-remailer＠shell.portal.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Please post your favorite poison recipes to this mlist.

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Re: TLAs on cypherpnks (was Re: ALL OF YOU ARE CRIMINAL HACKERS)
by Greg Broiles 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>[Declan asked a former CIA employee] if he had ever monitored the >cypherpunks list. "No, I >didn't. It was too high-traffic," he said. "But the guy in the next >office over from me did." > >Is this the first confirmed report of TLA cypherpunk-monitoring? Given that no names or dates are mentioned, I dunno if it's fair to call it "confirmed". It doesn't seem to be re-confirmable, if someone else wanted to verify it independently. I'm also not sure that a TLA employee reading the list because they happen to find it interesting counts as "monitoring". "Monitoring" suggests to me that it's being read/filtered/indexed/archived in some organized and deliberate fashion. Even so, the issue seems likely to generate more heat than light. If the list is interesting, it's unremarkable that one or more TLA employees would choose to read it. On our better days, we're talking about the intersection(s) between politics and privacy and technology - issues which affect the performance of many of a TLA's duties as well as the public will to maintain the policies and funding of the TLA and its employees. It's not surprising that TLA's want the capability to read every word written and hear every word spoken; it's just surprising that they believe that using law to maintain their ability to do that is compatible with the Constitution. -- Greg Broiles |"Post-rotational nystagmus was the subject of gbroiles(a)netbox.com |an in-court demonstration by the People http://www.io.com/~gbroiles |wherein Sgt Page was spun around by Sgt |Studdard." People v. Quinn 580 NYS2d 818,825.

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Re: your favorite poison recipes
by Alan Olsen 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 12:11 PM 7/28/96 -0700, anonymous-remailer(a)shell.portal.com wrote: >Please post your favorite poison recipes to this mlist. Why post them? Barnes and Noble bookstore will sell you good poison recipes in book form. (I found mine in the bargain section.) You can also find them in any good book on organic chemistry or in a bookstore that specializes in mysteries. Or you can just go to McDonalds and ask them what is in the hamburgers... (Of course, they will not tell you that it is made with troll meat.) --- |"Computers are Voodoo -- You just have to know where to stick the pins."| |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | |`finger -l alano(a)teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.teleport.com/~alano/ | alano(a)teleport.com |

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Just some comments on what I've read here
by Scottauge＠aol.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

1) Seems to be some excitment about banning information on the internet here... Setting up a set of computers for a private net is not that big a deal (just some money involved and with the availability of Linux - a UNIX variant - for free make it hardware and telephone costs.) Do it for companies all over (hence the aol address - just a local phone call from anywhere!) and it works just fine. So if people want to play by different rules.. it's possible. Think of it as a members only social club. (I can make computers real hard to get into, but social engineering kicks my butt all the time.) 2) Whats wrong with America? I've been leaning towards Libertarian for some time now. Voted for Ross last time as a message I ain't happy with how things are going over there. Likely gonna vote Harry Brown - my first vote for a Libertarian. (He is seems to have it together versus the others) - but hey, gettin off the subject here.... Seems we are no longer United in these United States... A stranger is not a potential friend or ally but a potential robber, baby raper... you fill in the blank. We're all scared of each other! Something has been happening where rich are pitted against the poor, the working against the non-working, races vs other races. Is it a conspiracy as some of my friends who look for black helicopters say, or a natural reaction of politicians and "leaders" seeing a formula that works and then implementing it. To much Hard Copy and Extra reporting out there too. I don't give a rat's a*s about most of the sh*t their putting out (censorship mine for those with delicate eyes). But US culture has become very valuable and ya gotta get them foreign markets ya know. There was a time when a famil could have a picnic on the white house lawn. Then it got gated, now the street is closed. Our leaders seem to be no longer among us. But it doesn't matter. Some beuracrat (sp) gets a bug up their butt to give you trouble, your f*cked. With a seconds thought and a signature on a peice of paper ya can have your land gone or your bank account cleared or you name it. One second and on to the next thing as far as they are concerned. Can we impeach them? Can we vote for someone else next time? They're a buffer between the ones we can give trouble too. Plus Laws are so damn big these days. It takes a ream of paper (sometimes a whole 3000 page box of paper) to print these things out. You can bet the leg. not reading these things! They got advisors to read over sections and say this is good, this is bad. The real representatives and senators are out looking for campaign money. So damn, I now speculate these guys and gals are letting the advisors put the laws together - again someone not answerable (or even known) to the public. So now, you got legislators not reading the bills they are working on and there is a whole army of serfs ready to make some regulations that are in effect the same as law and ready to start looking for people to bother so they can look busy - and these serfs are not answerable to the public. Sorry, but congress is a part time job as far as I'm concerned. These laws are the result of people with nothing to do. I listen to the TV set and I hear "Oh we gotta law comin to fix this". Bullsh*t. There are plenty of other laws out there to hassle trouble makers with. They didn't nab Capone on murder, but on tax evasion. People fix stuff, not laws. Somebody is measuring their prouctivity by the amount of paper they can spew out of their office. 3) I'm a keen believer in Social Evolution A quick definition: If your a drug addict and your stupid enough to OD, you deserve to die. Another example: Your a drug dealer and ya get shot - oh well. Goes with the choice , dude. We keep protecting people from their choices. We think we are doing a favor for ourselves but I POSTULATE we are not. We keep on fightin nature and it just ain't possible. There just might be a reason for this weedin out process. But I'll admit it - I have a prejudice against stupid people - not mentally hadicapped, but stupid people. Well, thanks for reading my ranting and raving....

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Re: your favorite poison recipes
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 12:11 PM 7/28/96 -0700, anonymous-remailer(a)shell.portal.com wrote: >Please post your favorite poison recipes to this mlist. I recommend a book called "Handbook for Poisoners," by Raymond Bond. While it is mostly a collection of (mostly fictional) poison stories, the forward is a rather extensive non-fictional summary of poisons as was commonly known when the book was written, in 1950 or so. The main problem is that it doesn't include the various anticholinesterases then known, such as Tabun or Sarin. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Re: Feinstein wants controls on forwards
by Alan Olsen 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 01:11 PM 7/28/96 -0700, Alan Olsen wrote: Damn! Sorry! Forwarded it to the wrong alias in Eudora. (I knew I was going to fuck that up one of these days... Need more caffiene.) --- Alan Olsen -- alano(a)teleport.com -- Contract Web Design & Instruction `finger -l alano(a)teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key http://www.teleport.com/~alano/ "We had to destroy the Internet in order to save it." - Sen. Exon "Microsoft -- Nothing but NT promises."

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Re: your favorite poison recipes
by Vinnie Moscaritolo 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Anonymous writes: >Please post your favorite poison recipes to this mlist. I'd have to say Federal Match in.308, Lead poisoning -- Long distance. martian Minow writes: > >Rare roast beef, baked potato with plenty of butter, red wine. > Martin; last time I checked you were a trickle down vegaterian too. Vinnie Moscaritolo ------------------ "friends come and friends go..but enemies accumulate." http://www.vmeng.com/vinnie/ Fingerprint: 4FA3298150E404F2782501876EA2146A

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