December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: constitution.amendmentxi.html (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > From: "William H. Geiger III" <whgiii(a)invweb.net> > Date: Mon, 29 Dec 97 11:22:11 -0600 > Subject: Re: constitution.amendmentxi.html (fwd) > I fail to see how this gives you the right to bring suit when you were not > the infringed party?? That's your problem Bill, you don't 'see'. I am a citizen of the United States, all laws passed at the federal level and *any* parties which participate in the application of those laws whether against me or another are in fact threatening my liberty if those laws are unconstitutional. You fuck over one citizen, you fuck over all citizens. *THAT* is what makes me the infringed party. AMENDMENTS TO THE CONSTITUTION ARTICLE IX. The enumeration of the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. ARTICLE X. The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. Samuel Adams ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Abandonment of legal precedence...
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

When in the Course of human Events, it becomes necessary for one People to dissolve the Political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the Powers of the Earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the Opinions of Mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the Separation. We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness--That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such Principles and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient Causes; and accordingly all Experience hath shewn, that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of Abuses and Ursurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future Security. Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The *entire* point of the forming of the United States over 200 years ago was the specific intent to break with precedence, in particular *English* precedence, and find a new way. [personaly, every time I hear somebody mention English commen law as a justification to deny the Constitution I want to slap the holy shit out of them] In short (paraphrased), I took the road less travelled, and it made all the difference. -don't remember- ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Re: constitution.amendmentxi.html (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > From: "William H. Geiger III" <whgiii(a)invweb.net> > Date: Mon, 29 Dec 97 11:36:51 -0600 > Subject: Re: constitution.amendmentxi.html (fwd) > By your logic the individule States have no sovernty and the citizens of > one state can impose thier will against the citizens of another. This > clearly goes against both the spirit and the letter of the Constitution. Not exactly. States have the sovereignty *given* them by the Constitution and their individual state constitutions. Further, one state can *not* under the Constitution deny me a right in that state that I have in another. Perhaps an example. The 2nd gives me the right to bear arms. Texas' constitution gives the Texas legislature the right to regulate the ownership and carrying of arms by Texas *citizens*. Those same laws could *not* be used to deny a citizen of Louisiana from carrying their weapon if *their* constitution does not regulate such activities. It isn't *my* logic Bill, it's the Constitutions law: ARTICLE X. The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. It goes like this: - A question of jurisdiction is noted. - The Constitution is examined to see if it is assigned to the federal government. - If it isn't then we look to see if the Constitution denies that power to the states. If not then the individual states may impliment it as *their* constitutions allow, provided it does not break any of the Constitutions dicta about equal protection and recognition. - If the state constitution doesn't cover it *or* it is denied to the states by the Constitution then we each get to decide it on our own by our own means. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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States in the Constitution
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The Constitution: To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the authority of training and Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress; Section 10. No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; Coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility. No State shall, without the Consent of the Congress, lay any Imposts or Duties on Imports or Exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing its inspection Laws: and the net Produce of all Duties and Imposts, laid by any State on Imports or Exports, shall be for the Use of the Treasury of the United States; and all such Laws shall be subject to the Revision and Controul of the Congress. No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay. Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector. Section 2. The President shall be the Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment. Section 2. The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority; -- to all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls; -- to all Cases of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction; -- to Controversies between two or more States; -- between a State and Citizens of another State; -- between Citizens of different States; -- between Citizens of the same State claiming Lands under Grants of different States; -- and between a State, or the Citizens thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects. In all Cases, affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, and those in which a State shall be Party, the supreme Court shall have original Jurisdiction. In all other Cases before mentioned, the supreme Court shall have appellate Jurisdiction, both as to Law and Fact, with such Exceptions, and under such Regulations as the Congress shall make. Section 1. Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof. Section 2. The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States. A Person charged in any State with Treason, Felony, or other Crime, who shall flee from Justice, and be found in another State, shall on Demand of the executive Authority of the State from with he fled, be delivered up, to be removed to the State having Jurisdiction of the Crime. {No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, but shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due.} [See Amendment XIII.] Section 3. New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new States shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress. The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States, and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State. Section 4. The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic violence. The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions of the three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which shall be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of it's equal Suffrage in the Senate. This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding. The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States. The Ratification of the Conventions of nine States, shall be sufficient for the Establishment of this Constitution between the States so ratifying the Same. The Amendments: ARTICLE VI. In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have Assistance of Counsel for his defence. ARTICLE X. The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. ARTICLE XI. The Judicial power of the United States shall not be construed to extend to any suit in law or equity, commenced or prosecuted against one of the United States by Citizens of another State, or by Citizens or Subjects of any Foreign State. [8 January 1798.] ARTICLE XIII. Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. Section 2. Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation. [18 December 1865.] ARTICLE XIV. Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. Section 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in a rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State. Section 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability. Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume to pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void. Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article. [28 July 1868.] ARTICLE XV. Section 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude ---- Section 2. The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation. ---- [30 March 1870.] ARTICLE XVI. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration. [25 February 1913.] ARTICLE XVII. The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two senators from each State, elected by the people thereof, for six years and each Senator shall have one vote. The electors in each State shall have the qualifications requisite for electors of the most numerous branch of the State legislature. When vacancies happen in the representation of any State in the Senate, the executive authority of such State shall issue writs of election to fill such vacancies: *Provided*, That the legislature of any State may empower the executive thereof to make temporary appointments until the people fill the vacancies by election as the legislature may direct. This amendment shall not be construed as to affect the election or term of any senator chosen before it becomes a valid part of the Constitution. [31 May 1913.] ARTICLE XIX. The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex. The Congress shall have power by appropriate legislation to enforce the provisions of this article. [26 August 1920.] ARTICLE XXI. Section 1. The eighteenth article of amendment to the Constitution of the United States is hereby repealed. Section 2. The transportation or importation into any State, Territory or possession of the United States for delivery or use therein of intoxicating liquors, in violation of the laws thereof, is hereby prohibited. Section 3. This article shall be inoperative unless it shall have been ratified as an amendment to the Constitution by convention in the everal States, as provided in the Constitution, within seven years from the date of the submission thereof to the States by the Congress. [5 December 1933.] ARTICLE XXVI. Section 1. The right of citizens of the United States, who are 18 years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age. Section 2. The Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation. [circa 1970/1971.] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Re: Abandonment of legal precedence... (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > From: "William H. Geiger III" <whgiii(a)invweb.net> > Date: Mon, 29 Dec 97 11:51:15 -0600 > Subject: Re: Abandonment of legal precedence... > >The *entire* point of the forming of the United States over 200 years ago > >was the specific intent to break with precedence, in particular *English* > >precedence, and find a new way. > > Well that may sound nice and give you all kinds of warm fuzzies the fact > of the matter is English Common Law is the basis of the Judicial System in > America as it was before the break with England. > > While the revolution changed the political form of government it did > little to change the judical system. Murder was still murder, theift was > still theift, contracts were still valid before and after the war. So your premise is that the changes that were implimented at the time of the Constitution were all the changes that the founding fathers had in mind? You hold that while it is clear that the founding fathers recognized that the quantity of change required was such that they would not be able to impliment it realisticaly since nobody would accept that range of change at one time? You further hold that the Constitution is not a document that holds an ideal of freedom for us which will require generations of striving? You seriously expect to get up one morning and find that no new laws will be needed and that we have solved all the issues respecting human interaction? You further hold that with 200+ years of English jurisprudence behind us we have actualy attained that nirvana? In short, you would have us take it all - the good and the bad - and ignore our right to pick and choose what works for us? If we accept your view, blacks would still be slaves and women would still not be able to vote, and men couldn't vote unless they were landed. Do me a favor, please don't try to lick my hand. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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newscolumn1.html
by damaged justice 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

[1]Microsoft Small Business [2]Business First [3]Kemper Insurance Companies [4][ISMAP]-[5][USEMAP] December 29, 1997 Tech Watch Groups line up in support for Internet commerce taxes ______________________________________________________________ John Frees Rumblings on the horizon suggest that tax-free Internet commerce could be coming to an end. State governments, already losing as much as $3 billion annually in taxes on direct-mail purchases, are taking a strong look at the growing market for online purchases. The Federation of Tax Administrators, the National Conference of State Legislatures, National League of Cities and the National Governors' Association all want Congress to let states tax such purchases. But problems involved in deciding how states could collect those taxes could delay any foreseeable solution. Advocacy groups favoring the collection have created an electronic commerce project to decide how states can obtain their share of taxes. But even advocates have wide differences of opinion, says Harley Duncan, executive director of Washington D.C.-based Federation of Tax Administrators. "People in the project run the gamut from those who want to apply taxes responsibly to everyone to those who argue that electronic commerce deserve special consideration, while others say we ought to say it should be treated the same as mail order," he says. There are some similarities -- and some differences -- between mail order and Internet commerce, says tax attorney Harvey Dunn of law firm Schottenstein Zox & Dunn. If a company has some presence in Ohio, say a store or a trucking company, then sales tax could be charged. But an out-of-state mail-order company that ships a product via common carrier doesn't have to charge sales tax. However, buyers should pay a "use tax" on items once they receive them, he says. "But no one does," Dunn says. Cars bought out of state are charged a use tax because they are titled, which gives the state control. The difficulty comes in determining how to collect such a tax, says Julie Carpenter, spokeswoman for the Ohio Department of Taxation. Right now, there's no way for the state to police all the goods that are bought elsewhere but used here. "An Ohio taxpayer's obligation is to pay the tax," she says. "Realistically, is this going to happen? Probably not, without guidelines and some oversight." Online purchases are even murkier because the Net's unique nature allows some products such as music, software or electronic magazines, to be downloaded, Duncan says. While a CD purchased in a store can be taxed, how can a government collect on a few megabytes sent over the Internet? The electronic commerce project is looking at a billing address approach, Duncan says. If the commerce terminates in a state and is billed to someone in that state, then that state could make a strong case for collecting taxes on the commerce. Another issue states face is the different taxation rates among states. If a product made in New Hampshire is sold online to someone in Ohio, should Ohio collect a sales tax even though New Hampshire doesn't have a state sales tax? And how should sales from other countries be factored? Because of these and other issues, Duncan doesn't expect project members to have a grasp of the issue until sometime next summer. Meanwhile, Everen Securities estimates general, apparel, furniture and other sales nationwide are expected to hit $795 billion by 2000. As much as $79 billion of that will be sold online. At an average sales tax of 5 percent, nearly $4 billion in taxes will go uncollected unless the states can convince the federal government to figure out a way to give them a share. Got a tip for Tech Watch? Reach reporter John Frees at columbus(a)amcity.com or by phone at 461-4040, ext. 143. © 1997, Business First [6]More News Columns References 1. http://www.microsoft.com/smallbiz 2. http://www.amcity.com/columbus/ 3. http://www.KemperInsurance.com/ 4. http://www.amcity.com/columbus/maps/new_topbar.map 5. LYNXIMGMAP:http://www.amcity.com/columbus/stories/current/newscolumn1.html#… 6. http://www.amcity.com/columbus/stories/current/newscolumns.html

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Re: Abandonment of legal precedence... (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > From: "William H. Geiger III" <whgiii(a)invweb.net> > Date: Mon, 29 Dec 97 12:37:28 -0600 > Subject: Re: Abandonment of legal precedence... (fwd) > I don't know what you are smoking but I said nothing of the sort. You > implied that the break with England was for the purposes of overturning > the entire legal system and that English Common Law has no significance on > the current American legal system. I challenged this as it flies in the > face of fact and reality showing your complete ignorance of law and legal > history. Dude, Your lack of ability to comprehend english and extrapolate to the fantastic is truly amazing. You should consider turning it into a money maker. Either that or you're having a breakdown, see a shrink. Maybe they can do something about these visions you're seeing. Happy New Year! ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Reef & the US Postal Service... (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: >From ravage(a)ssz.com Mon Dec 29 14:26:57 1997 From: Jim Choate <ravage(a)ssz.com> Message-Id: <199712292026.OAA03349(a)einstein.ssz.com> Subject: Reef & the US Postal Service... To: friends(a)ssz.com (Ravage's Friends) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 14:26:49 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2281 Hi, I was playing with my dog Reef today in the yard. The postal carrier came up and she went over to investigate, barking as usual. The postal carrier responded by kicking at her and waving mail in her face all the while getting closer and closer. This did nothing to calm her down. I tried to talk to the guy while restraining the dog, who was crouched down on all fours in a defensive position, but he just walked off without a word. I went down to the post office and filed a complaint. The supervisor at the post office asked me whether he had struck the dog and when I explained that had he struck the dog or tried to mace her I would have struck the carrier and taken him to the police station, he got defensive and began threatening me with federal action. I explained that was fine with me, let's do it. It's amazing that federal employees believe they can come on private property, vandalize it with immunity, and if you attempt to defend yourself then you are the one in the wrong. I can't wait till/if the postal rep calls back on the mail-in complaint form I sent off today... ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Searching_for_representatives
by cypherpunks＠toad.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Paul.html
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

8:00 PM 2/27/1997 Too Far Rep. Paul's comments about Waco irresponsible U.S. Rep. Ron Paul, R-Surfside, said on C-SPAN that he lived in fear of being "bombed by the federal government in another Waco." Paul has embarrassed himself, his constituents and the state of Texas. The congressman needs to put aside his hysteria long enough to remember the facts of the standoff between federal agents and the Branch Davidians: Members of the cult gunned down federal agents who had come to serve a search warrant at the Davidian compound, which they accurately believed to contain automatic weapons and other illegal armaments. Before that, the group's leader had sexually assaulted several children of his followers. The FBI allowed the group weeks to lay down its arms and surrender. Some members and their children did surrender and received every consideration from authorities; others set fire to their own building, causing the deaths of 81 people, including 25 children. Paul is wrong to state that the government bombed the Davidians and to imply further that Americans should fear that their lives might be ended any moment by murderous, renegade federal law enforcement officers. His irresponsible remarks encourage the irrational fears that were the root cause of the Davidian tragedy and make similar confrontations more likely. Rep. Chet Edwards of Waco perhaps had the best advice for Paul. If the congressman really fears he will be bombed by federal agents, he should leave Washington.

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Re: Paul.html
by Brian B. Riley 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On 12/29/97 6:53 PM, Jim Choate (ravage(a)ssz.com) passed this wisdom: > 8:00 PM 2/27/1997 > >Too Far > > Rep. Paul's comments about Waco irresponsible > >U.S. Rep. Ron Paul, R-Surfside, said on C-SPAN that he lived in fear >of being "bombed by the federal government in another Waco." Paul has Who wrote this Jim, some of his statemenst don't jive with other mainstream news accounts of what happened, let alone what really happened. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNKg8NT7r4fUXwraZAQHeRgf+LR8CjGd8mI0pgkVK5w8tbSsoWr+BOXHI YZyiiDgGxBwSjII++Dijm6SR2o7BdqnlRZeU0ebkv+powNiDlzB4AIgth9PuNcFk lQ8nKUrVEbvjj8WneOg953xEQwnJalqpeS7Z7XBd/vTXSbLyk4jFHFPleV5VM3TB vFcKB+h+UTo7nQRLT6rbItDgtXKb58nfMK7KBPiRk5FqFUDXUMq1vVs7M/3ABEbx dSEhUdgqnHCfS64m/Mmnc8Y1aDD7gv3q60UWblx51bYMTU0kDgGk6WtuESg+lpN7 dzfW3395X2jTSEaJaX3cLe1LIoOzRTuKmjcgYtEehy858AFbgIx2ag== =He71 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr For PGP Keys <mailto:brianbr@together.net?subject=Get%20PGP%20Key> "Journeys are about discovery, about lives touching briefly and then parting, except on the Internet, where distant lives can intertwine, and where a journey of discovery never has to end." -- Jim Heid

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Money Maker
by Scott＠planet.eon.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

PRINT this letter, read the directions, THEN READ IT AGAIN !!! You are about to embark on the most profitable and unique program you may ever see. Many times over, it has demonstrated and proven its ability to generate large amounts of . This program is showing fantastic appeal with a huge and ever-growing on-line population desirous of additional income. This is a legitimate, LEGAL, money-making opportunity. It does not require you to come in contact with people, do any hard work, and best of all, you never have to leave the house, except to get the mail and go to the bank! This truly is that lucky break you've been waiting for! Simply follow the easy instructions in this letter, and your financial dreams will come true! When followed correctly, this electronic, multi-level marketing program works perfectly...100% EVERY TIME! Thousands of people have used this program to: - Raise capital to start their own business - Pay off debts - Buy homes, cars, etc., - Even retire! This is your chance, so don't pass it up! OVERVIEW OF THIS EXTRAORDINARY ELECTRONIC MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING PROGRAM Basically, this is what we do: We send thousands of people a product for $5.00 that costs next to nothing to produce and e-mail. As with all multi-level businesses, we build our business by recruiting new partners and selling our products. Every state in the U.S. allows you to recruit new multi- level business online (via your computer). The products in this program are a series of four business and financial reports costing $5.00 each. Each order you receive via "snail mail" will include: $5.00 cash * The name and number of the report they are ordering * The e-mail address where you will e-mail them the report they ordered. To fill each order, you simply e-mail the product to the buyer. THAT'S IT! The $5.00 is yours! This is the electronic multi-level marketing business anywhere! FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS TO THE LETTER AND BE PREPARED TO REAP THE STAGGERING BENEFITS! >I N S T R U C T I O N S This is what you MUST do: 1. Order all 4 reports shown on the list below (you can't sell them if you don't order them). * For each report, send $5.00 CASH, the NAME & NUMBER OF THE REPORT YOU ARE ORDERING, YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS, and YOUR RETURN POSTAL ADDRESS(in case of a problem) to the person whose name appears on the list next to the report. * When you place your order, make sure you order each of the four reports. You will need all four reports so that you can save them on your computer and resell them. * Within a few days you will receive, via e-mail, each of the four reports. Save them on your computer so they will be accessible for you to send to the 1,000's of people who will order them from you. 2. IMPORTANT-- DO NOT alter the names of the people who are listed next to each report, or their sequence on the list, in any way other than is instructed below in steps "a" through "d" or you will lose out on the majority of your profits. Once you understand the way this works, you'll also see how it doesn't work if you change it. Remember, this method has been tested, and if you alter it, it will not work. a. Look below for the listing of available reports. b. After you've ordered the four reports, replace the name and address under REPORT #1 with your name and address, moving the one that was there down to REPORT #2. c. Move the name and address that was under REPORT #2 down to REPORT #3. d. Move the name and address that was under REPORT #3 down to REPORT #4. e. The name and address that was under REPORT #4 is removed from the list and has NO DOUBT collected their 50 grand. Please make sure you copy everyone's name and address ACCURATELY!!! > 3. Take this entire letter, including the modified list of names, and save it to your computer. Make NO changes to the instruction portion of this letter. 4. Now you're ready to start an advertising campaign on the WORLDWIDE WEB! Advertising on the WEB is very, very inexpensive, and there are HUNDREDS of FREE places to advertise. Another avenue which you could use for advertising is e-mail lists. You can buy these lists for under $20/2,000 addresses or you can pay someone a minimal charge to take care of it for you. BE SURE TO START YOUR AD CAMPAIGN IMMEDIATELY! 5. For every $5.00 you receive, all you must do is e-mail them the report they ordered. THAT'S IT! ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ALL ORDERS! This will guarantee that the e-mail THEY send out, with YOUR name and address on it, will be prompt because they can't advertise until they receive the report! AVAILABLE REPORTS Order Each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME Notes: - ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH FOR EACH REPORT - ALWAYS SEND YOUR ORDER VIA FIRST CLASS MAIL - Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least two sheets of paper - On one of those sheets of paper, include: (a) the number & name of the report you are ordering, (b) your e-mail address, and (c) your postal address. _________________________________________________________________ REPORT #1 "HOW TO MAKE $250,000 THROUGH MULTI-LEVEL SALES" ORDER REPORT #1 FROM: SGBIS P.O. BOX 1308 WILDOMAR, CA. 92595 __________________________________________________________ REPORT #2 "MAJOR CORPORATIONS AND MULTI-LEVEL SALES"< ORDER REPORT #2 FROM: AIK 10629 Woodbridge Ave. Ste. 104 Toluca Lake, CA 91602 _________________________________________________________________ REPORT #3 "SOURCES FOR THE BEST MAILING LISTS" ORDER REPORT #3 FROM: RCC Enterprises 24303 Woolsey Cyn. #1 West Hills, CA 91304 _________________________________________________________________ REPORT #4 "EVALUATING MULTI-LEVEL SALES PLANS" ORDER REPORT #4 FROM: CJW Marketing 5142 Magnolia Blossom Blvd. Gahanna, OH 43229 _________________________________________________________________ HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PLAN WILL MAKE YOU MONEY Let's say you decide to start small just to see how well it works. Assume your goal is to get 10 people to participate on your first level. (Placing a lot of FREE ads on the internet will EASILY get a larger response.) Also assume that everyone else in YOUR ORGANIZATION gets ONLY 10 downline members. Follow this example to achieve the STAGGERING results below. 1st level--your 10 members with $5...........................................$50 2nd level--10 members from those 10 ($5 x 100)..................$500 3rd level--10 members from those 100 ($5 x 1,000)..........$5,000 4th level--10 members from those 1,000 ($5 x 10,000)...<U>$50,000</U> THIS TOTALS ----------->$55,550 Remember friends, this assumes that the people who participate only recruit 10 people each. Think for a moment what would happen if they got 20 people to participate! Most people get 100's of participants THINK ABOUT IT! Your cost to participate in this is practically nothing (surely you can afford $20). You obviously already have an internet connection and e-mail is FREE!!! REPORT#3 shows you the most productive methods for bulk e-mailing and purchasing e-mail lists. Some list & bulk e-mail vendors even work on trade! About 50,000 new people get online every month! TIPS FOR SUCCESS * TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS! Be prompt, professional, and follow the directions accurately. * Send for the four reports IMMEDIATELY so you will have them when the orders start coming in because: When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the requested product/report to comply with the U.S. Postal & Lottery Laws, Title 18,Sections 1302 and 1341 or Title 18, Section 3005 in the U.S. Code, also Code of Federal Regs. vol. 16, Sections 255 and 436, which state that "a product or service must be exchanged for money received." * ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE. * Be patient and persistent with this program. If you follow the instructions exactly, the results WILL undoubtedly be SUCCESSFUL! * ABOVE ALL, HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF AND KNOW YOU WILL SUCCEED! YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINE Follow these guidelines to guarantee your success: If you don't receive 10 to 20 orders for REPORT #1 within two weeks, continue advertising until you do. Then, a couple of weeks later you should receive at least 100 orders fo r REPORT #2. If you don't, continue advertising until you do. Once you have received 100 or more orders for REPORT #2, YOU CAN RELAX, because the system is already working for you, and the cash will continue to roll in! THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER: Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are placed in front of a DIFFERENT report. You can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by watching which report people are ordering from you. If you want to generate more income, send another batch of e-mails and start the whole process again! There is no limit to the income you will generate from this business! NOTE: If you need help with starting a business, registering a business name, how income tax is handled, etc., contact your local office of the Small Business Administration (a Federal agency) for free help and answers to questions. Also, the Internal Revenue Service offers free help via telephone and free seminars about business taxes.

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thomas.html (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: >From ravage(a)ssz.com Mon Dec 29 20:38:05 1997 Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 20:38:04 -0600 From: Jim Choate <ravage(a)ssz.com> Message-Id: <199712300238.UAA04509(a)einstein.ssz.com> X-within-URL: http://www.courttv.com/library/rights/thomas.html To: friends(a)ssz.com Subject: thomas.html Court TV Library Justice Thomas on 'Heroes and Victims' Legal Times Clarence Thomas may keep a lower profile than many of his colleagues on the Supreme Court bench. But when he does speak out, he almost always makes an impact. That was the case late last month, when Thomas made headlines with a speech excoriating what he termed "the modern ideology of victimhood." In his remarks, delivered to the Federalist Society's Ninth Annual Lawyers Convention, Thomas criticized contemporary society for exalting victims -- in not only the political realm, but in the courts as well. He marveled at the breadth and depth of the victim mentality, finding irony in the white men today who, "preoccupied with oppression," have "fallen prey to the very aspects of the modern ideology of victimology that they deplore." And, sounding a classic conservative theme, Thomas concluded that "the idea that government can be the primary instrument for the elimination of misfortune is a fundamental misunderstanding of the human condition." The full text of Thomas' speech, delivered Sept. 22 in Washington, D.C., follows. It is reprinted with permission. _________________________________________________________________ I would like thank my friends here at the Federalist Society for once again inviting me to be a part of an important and timely conference. And I would like to begin by returning to a topic I touched upon in my last speech at a conference co-sponsored by this organization: personal responsibility. It says something about the current state of affairs in our society that a conference on victims -- that is, a conference on the rise of the practice of blaming circumstances for one's situation rather than taking responsibility for changing things for the better -- is even necessary. As many of you have heard me say before, the very notion of submitting to one's circumstances was unthinkable in the household in which I was raised. The mere suggestion that difficult circumstances could prevail over individual effort would evoke a response that my brother and I could lip-sync on cue: "Old man 'can't' is dead; I helped bury him." Or, another favorite response: "Where there is a will, there is a way." Under this philosophy -- the essential truth of which we all recognize in our hearts -- victims have no refuge. It may have seemed harsh at the time to be told that failure was one's own fault. Indeed, there may have been many circumstances beyond our control. But there was much that my family and my community did to reinforce this message of self-determination and self-worth, thereby inoculating us against the victim plague that was highly contagious in the hot, humid climate of segregation. What has become clear to me over the years, as I have witnessed the transformation of our society into one based upon victims rather than heroes, is that there is a more positive message to be gained from adversity: Success (as well as failure) is the result of one's own talents, morals, decisions, and actions. Accepting personal responsibility for victory as well as for defeat is as liberating and empowering as it is unpopular today. Overcoming adversity not only gives us our measure as individuals, but it also reinforces those basic principles and rules without which a society based upon freedom and liberty cannot function. In those years of my youth, there was a deep appreciation of heroes and heroic virtue. Art, literature, and even popular culture (unlike today) often focused on people who demonstrated heroic virtues -- courage, persistence, discipline, hard work, humility, triumph in the face of adversity, just to mention a few. These building blocks of self-reliance were replicated and reinforced at home, school, and church. The "rags to riches" Horatio Alger stories were powerful messages of hope and inspiration to those struggling for a better life. And many of us used to read and dream about heroes -- not to mention our favorite television heroes, something perhaps unbelievable these days. I am certain that many of you who attended grammar school in the 1950s or earlier probably remember reading a favorite account of the integrity and work ethic of George Washington, or of Abraham Lincoln, or of George Washington Carver, or even of some baseball or football legend. It seemed that we all had heroes (not role models, a term of far more recent vintage). Indeed, it would have been odd for a child of several decades ago not to have had a hero. But today, our culture is far less likely to raise up heroes than it is to exalt victims -- individuals who are overcome by the sting of oppression, injustice, adversity, neglect, or misfortune. Today, victims of discrimination, racism, poverty, sickness, and societal neglect abound in the popular press. Today, there are few (if any) heroes. Often, it seems that those who have succumbed to their circumstances are more likely to be singled out than those who have overcome them. What caused this cultural shift -- from an emphasis on heroes to a preoccupation with victims? Why are there more victims and virtually no heroes recognized today? Why in years past was there much less of an emphasis on victimage? I think two things contributed to this change in the state of affairs. The first is that our political and legal systems now actively encourage people to claim victim status and to make demands on society for reparations and recompense. The second is that our culture actually seeks to denigrate or deconstruct heroes. Why would a civilized society travel down two such destructive paths? Why has it become no more admirable to rise valiantly above one's circumstances than it is to submit to them -- all the while aggressively transferring responsibility for one's condition to others? Let's begin with our political and legal systems -- how have they contributed to this state of affairs? The classical conception was that government and the law were meant to ensure freedom and equality of opportunity by giving people the most room possible for self-provision and self-determination. James Madison made this point in The Federalist Papers when he observed that the "protection" of the "diversity of faculties in men" was the "first object" of government. And, in more recent times, the great political economist Friedrich von Hayek -- who witnessed totalitarianism first-hand -- made a similar point when he observed that "the chief aim of freedom is to provide both the opportunity and the inducement to insure the maximum use of the knowledge that an individual can acquire." Between the New Deal and the 1960s, a far different view began to hold sway -- namely, that the role of the state was to eliminate want, suffering, and adversity. Freedom was no longer simply a right to self-provision and self-determination, but was instead a right to make demands on government and society for one's well-being and happiness. That is the import of Franklin Roosevelt's "Citizen Bill of Rights," which spoke of freedom from want -- rights to minimum income, housing, and other "adequate protections from economic fears." And, I think it is axiomatic that the call for such new rights (if not claims) became ever more prevalent in the 1950s and 1960s. No doubt, this gradual transformation in ideas took root and flourished (at least in part) because of the aggregate growth in wealth and resources we were witnessing in this country during the course of the 20th century. Against the background of this prosperity, poverty stood out in bold relief and in uncomfortably stark contrast -- even as the number of people suffering from it shrank. It is not surprising that people began to think that, in a world of seemingly unlimited resources, adversity could be eliminated, or, at the very least, remedied. The ideal of the "benevolent state" took hold. In our "enlightened" society, neglect, misfortune, and injustice did not have to be accepted as inevitable facts of life. Good government and laws could step in when necessary, as many believed they had successfully done during two World Wars, the Great Depression, and the civil rights movement. If one assumes that suffering and adversity can be eliminated, but sees a number of people continuing to suffer from adversity or misfortune, then there must be some forces in society that relegate the "have nots" to this fate. Or, at the very least, the less fortunate are being ignored. Those facing adversity, hence, are victims of a society that is not doing as much as it could (if it so desired), and these victims can (and should) stake a legitimate claim against the political and legal systems for recompense. In this view, neglect or selfishness on the part of society and government is responsible for the sting of oppression, injustice, and misfortune that the unfortunate and "have nots" feel today. In light of this modern ideology, is it any surprise that people identify themselves as victims and make demands on the political systems for special status and entitlements? Our culture expects (and, indeed, encourages) people to do exactly that. Consider, for example, the creation and continued expansion of the welfare state and other social programs in this country. How often have we heard proponents of these programs lull the poor into thinking that they are hopeless victims, incapable of triumphing over adversity without "benevolent intervention" by the state? How often have we heard these proponents encouraging the less fortunate in our society to become indignant about their situation in life and more demanding on the political system to find solution to their problems? It is not only in the political system, though, that we see our society and its leaders succumbing to the modern ideology of victimhood. As with the political system, people today also are strongly encouraged to make demands on the legal system by claiming victim status. Indeed, the legal system has, in many ways, become a significant driving force behind the modern ideology of victimhood. Courts are viewed as an effective means of forcing (or at least pressuring) political institutions into meeting demands for protected status and new rights or entitlements. Pointing to perceived "victimization" by "the system" or by others in society, our legal culture has often told the least fortunate in our society that their last hope is to claim special legal rights and benefits, or to seek exoneration for the harmful, criminal consequences of their acts. The least fortunate are encouraged to turn to legal arguments that admit defeat and that challenge the moral authority of society. In these ways, courts are called upon to solve social problems -- by creating special rules, and by crafting remedies that will satisfy the claims and demands of victim groups but that do not apply to all of us. Appealing to the legal system, though, was not as easy a task as making demands on the political system. Our legal system has traditionally required that redress for grievances only be granted after very exacting standards have been met. There had to be, for example, very distinct, individualized harm. And, the definition of harm was circumscribed by a traditional understanding of adjudication under the common law, where narrow disputes regarding traditional property rights were resolved among private parties who could not settle matters on their own. Very generalized claims of misfortune or oppression or neglect -- the kinds of assertions made in the political system -- would not easily fit into this common mold of court activity. It would not be enough for people to be indignant, angry, and demanding about their situation in life. There would have to be an assertion of a legal wrong and a persuasive argument that a legal remedy was available. The pressure of victimology "revolutionized" -- and that word does not always have positive connotations -- the courts and the law. For those in our culture seeking to use the courts as agents of social change, poverty, unemployment, social deviancy, and criminal behavior were not just unfair conditions in our society that could be eliminated if only people or politicians cared. Instead, these abstract problems were personified as the direct actions of local schools, churches, businesses, and other social institutions so that they could be sued for causing individualized harm to the victims. Based on this new kind of harm -- a kind of legalistic understanding of "victimage" -- the courts were said to be obligated to recognize special rights and protected status under the law. Take, for example, welfare rights and due process. Beginning with Goldberg v. Kelly, 397 U.S. 254 (1970), our cases underscored the importance of welfare as a means of preventing social malaise, promoting the general welfare, and securing the blessings of liberty for all Americans. The rights to life, liberty, and property were, in effect, transformed from freedom from government interference into a right to welfare payments. There are countless other examples in legal literature and judicial opinions -- some have argued that inner city minorities and the poor should not be held responsible for the consequences of their criminal acts because of oppression and misfortune; and, of course, there is the debate now raging about preferences based on sex, race, and ethnicity. This change in our political and legal systems has been accompanied by the rise of the "victim group." These groups are quite useful to public officials for building coalitions for future political support and legitimacy, as well. And, for the courts, "victim groups" provide useful justification or cover for energizing the legislative process, changing the legislative agenda, forcing reconsideration of spending priorities, and transforming public debate. But the rise of victimhood, and its perpetuation by government and the law, is only part of the modern tragedy. There is also the dearth of heroes in our culture. Significantly, as the number of these "victim groups" has escalated, there has been a corresponding decline in the amount of attention that our culture has paid to heroes or, even worse, a conscious attempt to cheapen their achievements. Today, success or a commitment to fighting for noble ideas is attributed to self-interest, revenge, self-aggrandizement, insecurity, or some psychological idiosyncrasy. Just thumb through recently published biographies in the library or bookstore -- in many of them, it is not a conscious effort to be virtuous or to do good, but instead a series of unforeseeable and external forces, that lead to greatness or success. And, in many of these biographies, we are introduced to the uncut, "never before seen" foibles, mistakes, and transgressions of people our culture idealized for centuries. The message: that these so-called heroes are really just regular people capable of folly and vice who happened to have a few good breaks. In Democracy in America, Alexis de Tocqueville anticipated this state of affairs when he said: "Historians who live in democratic times do not only refuse to admit that some citizens may influence the destiny of a people, but also take away from the people themselves the faculty of modifying their own lot and make them depend on an inflexible providence or a kind of blind fatality." Now, the problem these days is not that there are no people who should be singled out as heroes. Rather, as Daniel Boorstin suggests in his book, The Image, society is preoccupied with celebrities. And heroism and celebrity status are two very different things. The word "hero" refers to people of great strength, integrity, or courage who are recognized and admired for their accomplishments and achievements. The word "celebrity," on the other hand, refers to a condition -- the condition of being much talked about. It is a state of notoriety or famousness. As Boorstin says, "A celebrity is a person who is known for his well-knownness." Thus, while a hero is distinguished by his achievement, celebrities are created by the media and are simply a trademark. Celebrities are, in short, neither good nor bad -- they are just a big name. Publicity is the defining feature of a celebrity's existence, and, unlike a hero who will become greater as time passes, time destroys celebrities. Over time the glare of publicity, as Boorstin notes, melts away the celebrity by shedding light and heat on his vices and commonplaceness. This pattern of ignoring and deconstructing heroes -- and focusing instead on the ephemeral celebrity who is known for his well-knownness rather than character or individual worth -- stems from the rise of radical egalitarianism. In the 1960s, many of the cultural elite saw a need to ensure absolute equality. On this view, differences in ability and level of achievement are random or uncontrolled; and to permit these characteristics to dictate human happiness and well-being would therefore be unfair. Celebrity status, in contrast, is not a problem for egalitarians, for as Boorstin notes, "anyone can become a celebrity, if only he can get into the news and stay there." Certainly, real achievement is not necessarily required. It should surprise no one that our culture now has far less difficulty recognizing celebrities than it does those who achieve success as a result of personal effort and character traits that we traditionally would consider heroic. Denigrating heroic virtue -- in other words, chalking heroism up to circumstance -- fits quite well with the notion that we must all be the same and that there can be no significant differences in our achievement, social standing, or wealth. Anyone can see what these intellectual currents have done to the ideals of human dignity, personal responsibility, and self-determination. Preoccupation with victim status has caused people to focus covetously on what they do not have in comparison to others, or on what has happened to them in the past. Many fail to see the freedom they do have and the talents and resources that are at their disposal. Our culture today discourages, and even at times stifles, heroic virtues -- fortitude, character, courage, a sense of self-worth. For so many, the will, the spirit, and a firm sense of self-respect and self-worth have been suffocated. Many in today's society do not expect the less fortunate to accept responsibility for (and overcome) their present circumstances. Because they are given no chance to overcome their circumstances, they will not have the chance to savor the triumph over adversity. They are instead given the right to fret and complain, and are encouraged to avoid responsibility and self-help. This is a poor substitute for the empowering rewards of true victory over adversity. One of my favorite memories of my grandfather is how he would walk slowly by the cornfield, admiring the fruits of his labor. I have often thought that just the sight of a tall stand of corn must have been more nourishing to his spirit than the corn itself was to his body. But the culture of victimology -- with its emphasis on the so-called benevolent state -- delivers an additional (and perhaps worse) blow to dignity and self-worth. When the less fortunate do accomplish something, they are often denied the sense of achievement which is so very important for strengthening and empowering the human spirit. They owe all their achievements to the "anointed" in society who supposedly changed the circumstances -- not to their own efforts. Long hours, hard work, discipline, and sacrifice are all irrelevant. In a world where the less fortunate are given special treatment and benefits -- and, significantly, where they are told that whatever gains or successes they have realized would not be possible without protected status and special benefits -- the so-called beneficiaries of state-sponsored benevolence are denied the opportunity to derive any sense of satisfaction from their hard work and self-help. There is not a one among us who views what others do for us the same way we view what we do for ourselves. No matter how much we appreciate the help, it is still just that -- help, not achievement. It also bears noting that our culture's preoccupation with grouping victims has balkanized society. The "we/they" mentality of calling oneself a victim of society breeds social conflict and calls into question the moral authority of society. The idea that whole groups or classes are victims robs individuals of an independent spirit -- they are just moving along with the "herd" of other victims. Such individuals also lack any incentive to be independent, because they know that as part of an oppressed group they will neither be singled out for the life choices they make nor capable of distinguishing themselves by their own efforts. As victim ideology flourishes and people are demoralized by its grip, more and more people begin to think that they must claim victim status to get anywhere in this world. Indeed, is it any surprise that anyone and everyone can claim to be a victim of something these days? In his book The Abuse Excuse, Alan Dershowitz criticizes countless examples of conditions that "victimize" people and thereby release them from responsibility for their actions. Here are just a few examples: x The "black rage defense," which asserts that blacks who are constantly subjected to oppression and racial injustice will become uncontrollably violent; x "Urban survival syndrome," which claims that violent living conditions justify acts of aggression in the community; x "Self-victimization syndrome," which maintains that people become less productive and creative, and become severely depressed, as a result of societal neglect and discrimination. Most significantly, there is the backlash against affirmative action by "angry white males." I do not question a person's belief that affirmative action is unjust because it judges people based on their sex or the color of their skin. But something far more insidious is afoot. For some white men, preoccupation with oppression has become the defining feature of their existence. They have fallen prey to the very aspects of the modern ideology of victimology that they deplore. Some critics of affirmative action, for example, fault today's civil rights movement for demanding equality yet supporting policies that discriminate based on race. These critics expect the intended beneficiaries of the civil rights regime to break away from the ideology of victimhood: to cherish freedom, to accept responsibility, and, where necessary, to demonstrate fortitude in the face of unfairness. I do not quarrel with this. But these critics should hold themselves to the same standards, resisting the temptation to allow resentment over what they consider reverse discrimination to take hold of their lives and to get the best of them. They must remember that if we are to play the victim game, the very people they decry have the better claim to victim status. Of course, de-emphasizing heroism exacerbates all these problems. Human beings have always faced the temptation to permit adversity or hate to dominate and destroy their lives. To counter this tendency, society had heroes -- people capable of overcoming the very adversity or injustice that currently affects today's victims. They rose above their circumstances and inherent imperfections. Heroes cherished freedom, and tried to accomplish much with what little they had. Heroes demonstrated perseverance in the face of adversity and used hardship as a means to strive for greater virtue. And heroes accepted responsibility -- they did what they did despite fear and temptation, and tried to do the right thing when presented with a choice between good and evil. It is awfully hard for society to inculcate these values without some useful models from the past and present. I may not have realized it as a child, but my grandfather was a hero who had a tremendous impact on my life. He certainly would not be a celebrity by today's standards. Though barely able to read and saddled with the burdens of segregation, he worked hard to provide for his family. He was a deeply religious man who lived by the Christian virtues. He was a man who believed in responsibility and self-help. And though this could not bring him freedom in a segregated society, it at least gave him independence from its daily demeaning clutches. In all the years I spent in my grandparents' house, I never heard them complain that they were victims. Now, they did not like segregation or think that it was right. In fact, there was no question that it was immoral and that anyone who promoted it was morally reprehensible. But there was work to be done. I assure you that I did not enjoy the demands he placed on us. I saw no value in rising with the chicken, and, unlike him, I was not obsessed with what I will call the "reverse Dracula syndrome": that is, fear that the rising sun would catch me in bed. It would not be until I was exposed to the most fortunate and best educated in our society that I would be informed that all this time I had been a victim. I am sure you can imagine what it was like when I returned home to Savannah, and informed my grandparents that with the education I had received because of their tremendous foresight and sacrifice, I had discovered our oppressed and victimized status in society. Needless to say, relations were quite strained and our vacation visits were somewhat difficult. My grandfather was no victim and he didn't send me to school to become one. There are many people like my grandfather alive today. The cultural elite does not honor them as the heroes they are, but instead views them as people who are sadly ignorant of their victim status or who have forgotten where they came from. Our social institutions do not train today's young to view such people as heroes and do not urge them to emulate their virtues. In idealizing heroic virtue and criticizing the victim ideology of our day, I am not saying that society is free from intractable and very saddening injustice and harm. That would not be true. But the idea that government can be the primary instrument for the elimination of misfortune is a fundamental misunderstanding of the human condition. There has always been bad and suffering in the world, and we must admit that wrongs have been and will continue to be committed. People will always be treated unfairly -- we can never eliminate oppression or adversity completely, though we can and should fight injustice as best we can. But keep in mind that all of us are easily tempted to think of ourselves as victims and thereby permit adversity to be the defining feature of our lives. In so doing, we deny the very attributes that are at the core of human dignity -- freedom of will, the capacity to choose between good and bad, and the ability to endure adversity and to use it for gain. Victimhood destroys the human spirit. I also am not saying that we should expect everyone to be a hero all of the time. We humans are weak by our very nature; all of us at times will permit hardship to get the very best of us. But having a set of norms to guide us and to push us along -- the stuff of heroes -- can be a source of great strength. If we do not have a society that honors people who make the right choices in the face of adversity -- and reject the bad choices -- far fewer people will make the right choices. Ultimately, without a celebration of heroic virtue, we throw ourselves into the current state of affairs, where man is a passive victim incapable of triumphing over adversity and where aggression, resentment, envy, and other vice thwart progress and true happiness. What I am saying is that it requires the leadership of heroes and the best efforts of all to advance civilization and to ensure that its people follow the path of virtue. And, because of the role law has played in perpetuating victim ideology and because of the influence law can have in teaching people about right and wrong, lawyers have a special obligation here. We should seek to pare back the victimology that pervades our law, and thereby encourage a new generation of heroes to flourish. I am reminded of what Saint Thomas Kempis wrote more than 500 years ago about the human spirit. His standard is a useful one for thinking about the instruction that our law should be offering: "Take care to ensure that in every place, action, and outward occupation you remain inwardly free and your own master. Control circumstances, and do not allow them to control you. Only so can you be a master and ruler of your actions, not their servant or slave; a free man. . . ." Legal Times is an affiliate publication of Court TV. Copyright © 1995, American Lawyer Media L.P. _________________________________________________________________ Copyright 1996 by American Lawyer Media, L.P. All Rights Reserved. No parts of this site may be reproduced without permission of American Lawyer Media. Nothing in this site is intended to constitute legal advice.

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Anonymous IRC (was "Cypherpunks IRC Christmas Eve Party")
by Mark Hedges 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

We found IRC users to be so involved in petty information wars -- ping floods, malicious prank hacking, and the like -- that we directed policy against use of IRC from the anonymous shell accounts at CyberPass. If IRC users weren't so easily lulled by the tempation to crash a server or run malicious bots or just plain irritate other people for fun, and if they would gang up and kick out people who did that, then perhaps we'd switch that back on. They were just too much overhead. Everyone else seems pretty nice, really, as far as the system goes. They're all self-interested in keeping the anonymous publishing and so on going, so the peace keeps itself. Mark Hedges Infonex and Anonymizer

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Hayek Quotes (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: >From ravage(a)ssz.com Mon Dec 29 22:37:18 1997 From: Jim Choate <ravage(a)ssz.com> Message-Id: <199712300437.WAA04871(a)einstein.ssz.com> Subject: Hayek Quotes To: users(a)ssz.com (SSZ User Mail List) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 22:37:16 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 11676 Forwarded message: > X-within-URL: http://www.freedomsnest.com/cgi-bin/qa.cgi?ref=hayfa > > > [IMAGE] > > Quotes from F.A. Hayek > > [IMAGE] > > 1. Should our moral beliefs really prove to be dependent on factual > assumptions shown to be incorrect, it would be hardly moral to > defend them by refusing to acknowledge the facts. > > > > 2. Ever since the beginning of modern science, the best minds have > recognized that "the range of acknowledged ignorance will grow > with the advance of science." Unfortunately, the popular effect of > this scientific advance has been a belief, seemingly shared by > many scientists, that the range of our ignorance is steadily > diminishing and that we can therefore aim at more comprehensive > and deliberate control of all human activities. It is for this > reason that those intoxicated by the advance of knowledge so often > become the enemies of freedom. > > > > 3. Humiliating to human pride as it may be, we must recognize that > the advance and even the preservation of civilization are > dependent upon a maximum of opportunity for accidents to happen. > [The Constitution of Liberty, ch. 2.4 > > > > 4. All political theories assume, of course, that most individuals > are very ignorant. Those who plead for liberty differ from the > rest in that they include among the ignorant themselves as well as > the wisest. > > > > 5. Compared with the totality of knowledge which is continually > utilized in the evolution of a dynamic civilization, the > difference between the knowledge that the wisest and that which > the most ignorant individual can deliberately employ is > comparatively insignificant. > > > > 6. Equality of the general rules of law and conduct, however, is the > only kind of equality conducive to liberty and the only equality > which we can secure without destroying liberty. Not only has > liberty nothing to do with any other sort of equality, but it is > even bound to produce inequality in many respects. This is the > necessary result and part of the justification of individual > liberty: if the result of individual liberty did not demonstrate > that some manners of living are more successful than others, much > of the case for it would vanish. > > > > 7. From the fact that people are very different it follows that, if > we treat them equally, the result must be inequality in their > actual position, and that the only way to place them in an equal > position would be to treat them differently. Equality before the > law and material equality are therefore not only different but are > in conflict which each other; and we can achieve either one or the > other, but not both at the same time. > > > > 8. However human, envy is certainly not one of the sources of > discontent that a free society can eliminate. It is probably one > of the essential conditions for the preservation of such a society > that we do not countenance envy, not sanction its demands by > camouflaging it as social justice, but treat it, in the words of > John Stuart Mill, as "the most anti-social and evil of all > passions. > > > > 9. Justice, like liberty and coercion, is a concept which, for the > sake of clarity, ought to be confined to the deliberate treatment > of men by other men. > > > > 10. ...whenever it is necessary that one of several conflicting > opinions should prevail and when one would have to be made to > prevail by force if need be, it is less wasteful to determine > which has the stronger support by counting numbers than by > fighting. Democracy is the only method of peaceful change that man > has yet been discovered. > > > > 11. The conception that government should be guided by majority > opinion makes sense only if that opinion is independent of > government. The ideal of democracy rests on the belief that the > view which will direct government emerges from an independent and > spontaneous process. It requires, therefore, the existence of a > large sphere independent of majority control in which the opinions > of the individuals are formed. > > > > 12. It is only because the majority opinion will always be opposed by > some that our knowledge and understanding progress. In the process > by which opinion is formed, it is very probable that, by the time > any view becomes a majority view, it is no longer the best view: > somebody will already have advanced beyond the point which the > majority have reached. It is because we do not yet which of the > many competing new opinions will prove itself the best that we > wait until it has gained sufficient support. > > > > 13. ...it is always from a minority acting in ways different from what > the majority would prescribe that the majority in the end learns > to do better. > > > > 14. The successful politician owes his power to the fact that he moves > within the accepted framework of thought, that he thinks and talks > conventionally. It would be almost a contradiction in terms for a > politician to be a leader in the field of ideas. His task in a > democracy is to find out what the opinions held by the largest > number are, not to give currency to new opinions which may become > the majority view in some distant future. > > > > 15. What a free society offers to the individual is much more than > what he would be able to do if only he were free. > > > > 16. Perhaps the fact that we have seen millions voting themselves into > complete dependence on a tyrant has made our generation understand > that to choose one's government is not necessarily to secure > freedom. > > > > 17. Human reason can neither predict nor deliberately shape its own > future. Its advances consist in finding out where it has been > wrong. > > > > 18. A society that does not recognize that each individual has values > of his own which he is entitled to follow can have no respect for > the dignity of the individual and cannot really know freedom. > > > > 19. Liberty is an opportunity for doing good, but this is only so when > it is also an opportunity for doing wrong. > > > > 20. ...if we wish to preserve a free society, it is essential that we > recognize that the desirability of a particular object is not > sufficient justification for the use of coercion. > > > > 21. ...it is largely because civilization enables us constantly to > profit from knowledge which we individually do not possess and > because each individual's use of his particular knowledge may > serve to assist others unknown to him in achieving their ends that > men as members of civilized society can pursue their individual > ends so much more successfully than they could alone. > > > > 22. The mind cannot foresee its own advance. > > > > 23. Every change in conditions will make necessary some change in the > use of resources, in the direction and kind of human activities, > in habits and practices. And each change in the actions of those > affected in the first instance will require further adjustments > that will gradually extend through the whole of society. Every > change thus in a sense creates a "problem" for society, even > though no single individual perceives it as such; it is gradually > "solved" by the establishment of a new overall adjustment. > > > > 24. ...the case for individual freedom rests largely on the > recognition of the inevitable and universal ignorance of all of us > concerning a great many of the factors on which the achievements > of our ends and welfare depend. > > > > 25. ...the ultimate decision about what is accepted as right and wrong > will be made not by individual human wisdom but by the > disappearance of the groups that have adhered to the "wrong" > beliefs. > > > > 26. ...the argument for liberty is not an argument against > organization, which is one of the most powerful tools human reason > can employ, but an argument against all exclusive, privileged, > monopolistic organization, against the use of coercion to prevent > others from doing better. > > > > 27. Even more significant of the inherent weakness of the collectivist > theories is the extraordinary paradox that from the assertion that > society is in some sense more than merely the aggregate of all > individuals their adherents regularly pass by a sort of > intellectual somersault to the thesis that in order that the > coherence of this larger entity be safeguarded it must be > subjected to conscious control, that is, to the control of what in > the last resort must be an individual mind. It thus comes about > that in practice it is regularly the theoretical collectivist who > extols individual reason and demands that all forces of society be > made subject to the direction of a single mastermind, while it is > the individualist who recognizes the limitations of the powers of > individual reason and consequently advocates freedom as a means > for the fullest development of the powers of the interindividual > process. > > > > 28. It may indeed prove to be far the most difficult and not the least > important task for human reason rationally to comprehend its own > limitations. It is essential for the growth of reason that as > individuals we should bow to forces and obey principles which we > cannot hope fully to understand, yet on which the advance and even > the preservation of civilization depend. > > > > 29. The discussions of every age are filled with the issues on which > its leading schools of thought differ. But the general > intellectual atmosphere of the time is always determined by the > views on which the opposing schools agree. They become the > unspoken presuppositions of all thought, and common and > unquestioningly accepted foundations on which all discussion > proceeds. > > > > 30. From the saintly and single-minded idealist to the fanatic is > often but a step. > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > [LINK] > > [Home][Authors][Subjects][Quotes][Books][Email] >

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porno is good for kids
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Pornography is good for children! It helps them acknowledge the reality of sexual identity in the world of human beings. Most of the people I knew even into high school had sex with their friends before they were ten. Lots and lots of people -- meaning a lot -- took lots and lots of LSD. The world was good because everyone was going someplace peaceful eventually and neopaganism's many useful features brought widespread happiness. We tracked down Playboys and Playgirls too and looked at them and wondered at the novelty of the experience. Tell children about the penis and the vagina and how they can make you shiver and convulse with pleasure when you rub them together! Tell them about the forgetfulness of being which comes with orgasm. Sex is a wonderful part of life. Don't ruin it for children with fear and associations of violence and evil. GEEK NAKED

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TDC: Sci-Tek ...
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi, Check out Sci-Tek on The Discovery Channel. The current episode is really pretty full of grins and giggles, not to mention a lot of half-truths and plain techno-fantasy. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Advertise On the Internet For Free
by benoi＠aol.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dear Business Owners and Marketing Managers: I am writing to invite you to have a free listing for your business in the new National Direct Internet Yellow Pages. Even if you already have your business listed or advertise somewhere else, you will want to take advantage of this opportunity to extend your marketing and reach more of your local customers and prospects. Over 5.5 million hits were received on the National Direct site last month alone. Today many of your local prospects are going online to browse--and buy, and to reach as many potential customers as National Direct you would have to advertise in over 6500 yellow page books. Here's how the system works: When someone wants your type of service, they simply go online to http://www.ndiyp.com Then they type in the area code for the location they want. Finally, they type in what they are looking for. As long as you are listed, your business will come up on their screen. Larger ads get more attention, of course, and cost little. But your basic listing in the National Direct Internet Yellow Pages is yours free. To claim your listing. simply fill out the form and return it via e-mail to us asap. We'll see your business gets listed right away. Our e-mail address is toppy15(a)hotmail.com If you have any questions, please feel free to call (405) 942-5811 Monday - Friday 8-5. Please Complete Entire Form: Your Name: Your Title: Company Name: Company Address: City/State/Zip: Telephone Number: Fax Number: Type of Business: e-mail address: Web site address: Would you like information on larger classified or display ads? Return to<A HREF="mailto:toppy15@hotmail.com">CLICK HERE

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Season's Greetings from HOLLYWOOD...................................
by ccxt＠aol.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Let Your Creative Efforts for '97 Compound into Prosperity for '98 An Award Winning Team of Hollywood Producers and Directors is pleased to Invite the Submission of Your Entries in Computer Animation, Photography and Illustration for the World (WWW) Premiere of the 1997 Annual International "CAPI" Awards Be included in the "CAPI" Awards First CD-ROM "Library of Excellence" Distributed to Top Motion Picture Studios...Television Networks... and Advertising Agencies in Hollywood and around the World! PARTICIPATE in the World Wide Web's first competition organized by Top Hollywood Producers dedicated to discovering and honoring the very best new talent in the world...directly throughout the Internet! ENTRIES ARE JUDGED by an International Award-Winning Team of Industry Professionals currently participating in some of Hollywood's most prestigious Entertainment and Communications Productions! AWARDS ARE PRESENTED for the excellence and merit of each individual entry. ENTRANTS DO NOT COMPETE AGAINST EACH OTHER! There are equal opportunities for multiple GOLD, SILVER, and BRONZE "CAPI" Awards to be presented in all categories, to numerous qualifying entrants! RECEIVE INTERNATIONAL RECOGNITION and publicity that can assist you in creating new marketing and promotional opportunities for your career...potentially having your work Licensed by Leading Producers in the Hollywood & International Entertainment and Communications Industries! For more information visit us at: http://www.capiawards.com/ Copyright 1997 "CAPI" Awards "CAPI" AWARDS, PUBLIC RELATIONS 11247 Acama Ave., Studio City, CA, USA 91602 Our research indicates the preceeding information is of interest to you. If you prefer not to be on this private mailing list, please let us know and you will be promptly removed. Email:<A HREF="mailto:CAPIMAIL@AOL.COM> with Subject: REMOVE

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No Subject
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I tried sending an anonymous test article to comp.org.cauce via the CRACKER remailer. Sure enough, the Gypsie Jew Zorch forged a cancel for my article: >From: scott(a)zorch.sf-bay.org (Scott Hazen Mueller) >Newsgroups: comp.org.cauce >Subject: cancelled posting >Date: 30 Dec 1997 13:25:04 -0500 >Organization: At Home; Salida, CA >Lines: 26 >Sender: johnl(a)iecc.com >Approved: comp.org.cauce(a)abuse.net >Message-ID: <EM0LFH.Bn3(a)zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> >Reply-To: scott(a)zorch.sf-bay.org >NNTP-Posting-Host: ivan.iecc.com >X-submission-address: comp-org-cauce(a)abuse.net >X-Authentication-Warning: orbit.hooked.net: Uzorch set sender to news(a)zorch.sf-bay.org using -f >X-Nntp-Posting-Host: localhost.sf-bay.org >Path: ...!iecc.com!iecc.com!not-for-mail > >I have issued a cancel for the following posting to comp.org.cauce. Death >threats are serious business. > >Xref: zorch comp.org.cauce:378 >Path: zorch!news.well.com!noos.hooked.net!204.156.128.20.MISMATCH!news1.best.com >!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-sea-19.sprintlink.net!news-i >n-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!205.238.207.65!iecc.com!iecc.co >m!not-for-mail >From: Anonymous <anon(a)anon.efga.org> >Newsgroups: comp.org.cauce >Subject: CAUCE offers a $50,000 (canadian) reward for killing Chris Lewis, his w >ife, and the kid >Date: 30 Dec 1997 10:58:17 -0500 >Organization: I.E.C.C., Trumansburg NY >Lines: 14 >Sender: johnl(a)iecc.com >Approved: comp.org.cauce(a)abuse.net >Message-ID: <b8d6450efb8581fa6190e92216c92e16(a)anon.efga.org> >NNTP-Posting-Host: ivan.iecc.com >X-submission-address: comp-org-cauce(a)abuse.net >Comments: This message did not originate from the Sender address above. > It was remailed automatically by anonymizing remailer software. > Please report problems or inappropriate use to the > remailer administrator at <admin(a)anon.efga.org>. My cancelled Usenet article offered a reward for killing the spammer: >CAUCE, the enforcement branch of the Internet administration, is dedicated to >exterminating all SPAMMERS by any means necessary. CAUCE wants Chris Lewis and >all other SPAMMERS dead, and will gladly pay the $50,000 (canadian) reward to >whomever KILLS Chris Lewis and his family, who reside in a suburb of Ottawa: > >483 Vances Side Road >Dunrobin, Ontario K0A 1T0 >CANADA >Home telephone: (613) 832-0541, >Office telephone: (613) 763-2935 > >After you kill Chris Lewis and his family, please see http://www.cauce.org >for information on how to collect your CAUCE reward. This is fucking censorship! I'm putting the notice of the CAUCE reward on my web home page at http://www.panix.com/~guy, right next to the pictures of the pre-teen kids screwing. Fuck you, Zorch, you're next after C, P, and G Lewis. ---guy

6 5

Re: Word Processors and GUIs (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > From: "William H. Geiger III" <whgiii(a)invweb.net> > Date: Tue, 30 Dec 97 03:40:31 -0600 > Subject: Re: Word Processors and GUIs > While some standardization is good it is not the be all to end all. While > standardization of cut, paste, open, close, print makes perfect sense most > commands do not fall into this catagory. Perhaps not, but 90% of what people *do* does fall into those operations. Ever hear of macro's? Ever use a Sun where the menu pull-down pops up under the pointer when you click a button? Both of these will increase the use of a GUI to way more than a straight CLI interface (and I type at nearly 80 words a minute with a slightly crippled L. hand). I suggest you get a GUI macro utility and something like PopUpMenu on the Amiga that makes the menu's appear both at the command bar *and* under the mouse. Using this technique I can execute a file save via GUI in about 1/3 the time I can in the CLI. > The inherent benefit of this > standardization decrease the more specialized an application becomes. With > a program like Autocad or MathCad or even Lotus 1-2-3 where one has a > steep learning curve of specialized commands the benefits of standardized > basic commands boarders on insignificant. You are confusing learning the commands with learning the 'model' that the program impliments. The learning curve comes from the user learning the model the programmer(s) had in their head(s) while writing the program and learning to solve problems with the black box functions the programmer/developer uses to solve those problems. > Once we get past the standardization issue to the one of textmode vs GUI > (which was the topic of my original post) I doubt that one can make the > case that a draftsman running a graphics program under a textmode OS is > less efficient as his counterpart who is saddled with a bloated GUI OS. In I use both POVRay as well as LightWave, one text and one GUI. The GUI program is *much* easier to develop 3d renderings in because things like boundary violations, control path anomolies, and such are *much* easier to see and deal with in the GUI interface. I also use Scientific Notebook, I can't imagine doing the same sort of things I do with that GUI text-processor with say a textual Postscript or Tex program. Just try making a nice nifty graphical output using Postscript (say) using a GUI and a editor working in Postscript directly. > fact if both are operating on the same hardware I would venture a guess > that the textmode user will be more efficient by the simple fact that his > resources are not being consumed by the GUI. This assumption is *very* dependant upon the model of the software. It depends upon whether the process takes the command sequence and executes it in parallel or in series with the command entry sequence. In other words, if the program renders while you are entering new commands will obviously be much slower than a program that takes the sequence of commands in toto and *then* executes them. The efficiency to a large part depends upon the model of the software, not the particular command and control interface. If you expect to execute processes in parallel (ie edit & execute in parallel) then a GUI is much quicker (not taking into account the added overhead of the GUI, which in and of itself is not a condemnation of the GUI but rather the poor processors we have to run them on) because you can see you errors as they occur and it keeps them from propogating through the design or use process. If sequential is your goal then it really doesn't matter because in both cases (ie GUI v CLI) becuase while it's executing your commands you can't do anything anyway. Of course, these models *only* apply if we are single-tasking programs. If we allow multi-tasking then GUI wins hands down because graphical information content is *much* higher than CLI in every case. This allows us to display more information on a GUI than a CLI. Personaly, this is a non-argument from the technical perspective. It is more indicative of the mental flexibility of the holders of the various positions. I wouldn't use an OS that wouldn't let me do both at the same time (and I don't) and use them as I need them. > The same case can be made for the accounting staff using spreadsheets or > the secretaries typing letters. I'll take an accounting department using > Lotus 1-2-3 3.x up against a similar group running MS Office and Win95/NT > any day of the week. I'll get the same work done faster and *cheaper*. Excuse me but the user interface of your example, 123, *has* GUI elements even in a text mode display. > This brings up another issue of decreased performance with the GUI's. It > is the notion that every document must be type-set. I can't even start to > imagine the millions of man hours wasted in the office because every > insignificant memo, report, and letter has to be formatted "just right" This is a condemnation of human nature, not GUI's. I use a plain old text editor when I'm making simple edits. A perfect example is from work where we recently have taken on a group of office 'helpers' to take care of the more mundane office needs. They discovered they could add graphics and attachments to their email and ever since we have suffered from the abuse, emails with a dozen attachments of pretty pictures that I have to specificaly work through. Considering I get somewhere in the neighborhood of 500 emails a day that can be a real time sink (thank god for procmail!). But whattcha gonna do, shoot 'em? > Another contention I have with the GUI's is the use of icons. One of the > most misused and time wasting "features" of the GUI's. It makes absolutely > no sense for someone who is working on the keyboard to stop what they are > doing, go over to the mouse, and then point and click to execute a > command. Then quit using the mouse on the wrong damn side of the keyboard. If you're right handed the mouse goes on the left, not the right. That way you don't have to quit typing to deal with the GUI. It takes a couple of days to over come the 'handedness' that is built into our brain, but the long term benefit is that your wrist load goes *way* down on the right *and* your left hand fine motor control improves significantly. If you happen to be left handed then you need a reversed keyboard with the return key and such on the L. and the mouse on the right. Try it for 3 days - you'll like it. > Well I guess I will rap this up with a final note. With the GUI OS's (and > the applications that run on them) as size and complexity increases > performance and reliability decreases. Without a doubt I can get more work > done on cheaper hardware running *nix or os/2 using only text mode > applications than I can running a GUI with it's associated bloated > applications. That's interesting, I use Linux (x86 & PPC) , WinNT, AmigaDos, AIX, & Solaris at home on my personal machines (11 of them not counting the TI explorer, , Atari 800, SX-64 and C-128) and don't find a significant difference in reliability. They all stay up for weeks and weeks. OS/2 is a sucky os, it's unstable and calling it reliable is a joke. It's user interface is inconsistent, it's task swapper is weird and stalls at strange times for no apparent reason, etc., etc. Note that this is a personal opinion and not a function of my working for IBM and being required to use OS/2 everyday (I don't like that requirement either). It is a function of my using OS/2 since the 1.0 days. It's interesting to note that IBM is moving OS/2 from the general OS area to specialized applications... ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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You are all a bunch of cypherpunks (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 03:39:05 -0500 > From: David Miller <dm0(a)avana.net> > Subject: You are all a bunch of cypherpunks > 2) I want to know anyone who knows anything about full-duplex soundcard > programming under Linux. Internet Telephony is fast opon us, do you > want > to subscribe or design? This is duplex Nautilus II. Get in gear. O'Reilly has a new book out for Linux relating to writing device drivers. You also want a copy of their Linux multimedia book. I don't have the device driver book (it hasn't come in yet), but: Linux Multimedia Guide Jeff Tranter ISBN 1-56592-219-0 $32.95 You might also want to peruse: Beginning Linux Programming N. Matthew & R. Stones ISBN 1-874416-68-0 $36.95 Inside Linux Randolph Bentson ISBN 0-916151-89-1 (mine was $22.00, no price shown) Linux Programming P. Volkerding, E. Foster-Johnson, K. Reichard ISBN 1-55828-507-5 $39.95 Linux Kernel Internals M. Beck, H. Bohme, M. Dziadzka, U. Kunitz, R. Magnus, D. Verworner ISBN 0-201-87741-4 (mine was $40.75, no price shown, it's an import from Germany) Also: The Design of the Unix Operating System M.J. Bach ISBN 0-13-201799-7 (no price on book, this is the book Linus used to design the kernel) and finaly: Interprocess Communications in Unix: The nooks & crannies J.S. Gray ISBN 0-13-186891-8 (no price on book, $40?) Hope that helps. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Strange Way To Leak Inofrmation: Contents Of Discovery Channel Show On Non-Lethals (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: >From stugreen(a)bga.com Tue Dec 30 02:12:37 1997 Sender: root(a)coney.lsd-labs.com Message-ID: <34A8A83D.FBFEDD2F(a)bga.com> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 01:52:29 -0600 From: Stu Green <stugreen(a)bga.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.33 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ravage(a)ssz.com Subject: Strange Way To Leak Inofrmation: Contents Of Discovery Channel Show On Non-Lethals Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim, I left the tube on Discovery while testing some software tonight. In the background I heard something about attacking computers so I started paying attention and to my warped mind the Fed was trying to leak some dis-information (or advertise some dirty tricks already pulled). In the hype there were some interesting things mentions that folks ought be aware of. They gave a 'man in the middle' scenario played out in full on the screen between a "computer security expert" and a group of transactions between a bank in acountry "plagued with drug production and cartels" and a bank in Switzerland. The third world bank and the Swiss bank were using PGP for encryption. The narrator dumped an aside - the government was supplying the "computer security expert" with "data gathered over time", which consisted of intercepts of the initial text messages passing the PGP keys back and forth (PGP 2.4 flashed on one of the screens, so we ain't talking about yesterday here). This amounts to an acknowledgement that one of the three-letter groups is playing man-in-the -middle already and on a grand scale (not that this is new news, but its nice having the speculation authenticated, even if in a manner that leaves the conclusion to the viewer's deductive processes). The last computer related portion involved the FBI planting trojan horses through anti-virus software. they flash a couple of screens - one was definately Norton Anit-virus for 95 and the other recognizible one was M$AV. I think the one I couldn't pin is Dr. Solomon's, but it could easily be McAfee. Doesn't matter - if one is popped, they all are. Back in June I built a K6 for David that had some real pecularities - the sound card went into outer space and set it's interupt to 14 and wouldn't let go. When I started to try to figure out what was going on I figured that something wrote to the bios, cause the symptoms were so werid. So I hacked a little thing up to go in and rewrite the bios'sNVRAM. It worked witht the motherboard's jumpers set to allow bios flashing and failed when the pins were set to block flashing. But when I use debug in a very dirty program I was able to jack with the wrteable ram, even with flashing diaabled, matter of fact it was so damned simple I wrote the motherboard manufacturer to show how it was broken. If ASUS is prone to this kind of dumb attack, then I figure other boards are probably more vulnerable and the government's got a pile of exploits to dick with any machine (running windows, MacOS or NT) with their trojan horses and bios-level attacks. I could have sworn that the stuff I saw on David's motherboard came strait from Bulgaria. It looked like one of the best hacks I ever saw - everytime I changed values in the bios and rebooted into 95, those values were reset to the original values right after post ran memory checking. But if I booted into Linux it did not effect anything (it's nice having all the system specific onformation in /proc, without having to write a program to extract it from kmem). So, from what I can conclude, there maybe reason to look over the shoulder a little more diligently cause somebody's out there fucking around. In that vain, I bagged some fool trying to start a mail flood from a system he broke into ( a customer of mine that knew he had been hacked). It kind of blew my mind, here this guy spent hours cracking around, found his way into the mail server (which was an NT machine) just to blast dumb & lame porno all over the place. (Happened to me in March - I left SATAN running at work over a weekend and as soon as I got on the windows box in my office a flood of shit started going out to the last person I mailed, which luckily was Jep, it was the samething lame porn and a ton of it, but I left my ass wide opened by leaving SATAN's fat neon sign on and not isolating the work station I was running SATAN on from my other machine, at least I isolated myself from the rest of Arrowsmith's network (which was the worst setup I've ever seen - but that's another story)). Hope Reef didn't get too traumatized by the Federales. Maybe you could sue the government for the stress induction as Reef's guardian?? Catch you soon and if not before - Happy New Years Regards, Stu

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China clamps down on Internet [CNN]
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > CHINA CLAMPS NEW CONTROLS ON INTERNET > > Web posted at: 3:13 a.m. EST (0813 GMT) > > BEIJING (Reuters) -- China clamped sweeping new controls on the > Internet on Tuesday, warning that the network was being used to leak > state secrets and to spread "harmful information." > > Regulations unveiled by Zhu Entao, Assistant Minister for Public > Security, cover a wide range of crimes, including leaking state > secrets, political subversion and spreading pornography and > violence. > > The rules are also designed to protect against computer hacking, > viruses and other computer-related crime. > > They call for unspecified "criminal punishments" and fines of up to > 15,000 yuan ($1,800) for Internet providers and users who violate > the rules -- both individuals and business organisations. [text deleted] > The regulations explicitly cover information circulating from Hong > Kong, Macau and Taiwan. [text deleted]

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The Anonymizer and IRC
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The Anonymizer does in fact only provide restricted access by http and NO IRC. For instance, the Anonymizer blocks Dejanews, Hotmail and mailto.cgi forms. I could understand that they block sites that explicitly request to be blocked to prevent abuse. But what if I want to make a mailto.cgi or IRC script available by http. Should people be disallowed from accessing this through The Anonymizer even if I do not request it? It should at least be possible to allow access to such scripts for The paid accounts. If they keep logs in case of a U. S. law violation, I see no problem of liability arosing from such access. They have also restricted their shell access for which you pay US $ 7 per moth to IRC. Does that sound more reasonable than blocking the nntp port? Does anyone know other ISPs who provide privacy and do not block abitrarily without _prior request_ from the site in question? A private interest can do anything, but anyway. * * *===================================================================* For subscription info see http://www.efga.org/about/maillist.html

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