December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Anonymnity at teleport
by E. ALLEN SMITH 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

A bit of interesting information about teleport. Still not as good as c2 (as I stated), but it's still good to have multiple anonymous account providers around... whether or not they mean to be anonymous. This is from a sysadmin type there (why I deleted the name) who I'll ask about the Majordomo patch. -Allen >>Our users can have a P.O. Box as their address (or a false address), >>whatever they want as their 'real name', and can pay for their accounts by >>mailing in cash. All they need to do is be close to a phone that isn't >>theirs for an hour or so. > >>The can put in a phone# when they set up, then call in from that phone (even >>if it isn't their own) and have one of us call them back with a few >>minutes...all set. > >>Can't get any more anonymous than that. > >>Of course it *is* against the rules. > > The reason that I'd take your name off, yes. Also a reason not to be as >trusting... since it is against the rules at teleport, you're more likely to >cooperate than Sameer is if the feds or someone want to know who the anonymous >person is. Sameer makes quite sure he doesn't _have_ any information to give >such types.... including log files of telnet sessions. True, but a log file without a name, address, phone# or SS# to attach to it is worth *very* little.... :)

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Scientology's fishing expedition mentions remailers
by Thomas Grant Edwards 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Biased Journalism [via fight-censroship list] is reporting that Keith Henson received a Demand For The Production Of Documents and Things from counsel for the Religious Technology Center [RTC], an arm of the church of scientology. Among the documents to be produced by Mr. Henson: Demand 14. Any and all documents relating to postings of Advanced Technology materials, including, but not limited to, actual postings or discussions of such postings, whether actual or planned, made through the following servers: a. freezone.remailer b. nately.ucsd.edu C. penet.fi d. replay.comm e. utopia.backtic.nl Demand 19. Any and all documents relating to communications with the following individuals relating to the Advanced Technology: a. Alex Dejoode b. Dennis Erlich c. Steven Fishman d. Mike Godwin e. Johan Helsingius f. Jeff Jacobsen g. Tom Klemesrud h. Arnaldo Lerma i. Dierdre Malloy j. Peter Mante k. Ron Neuman l. Robert Penny m. Felipe Rodriquez n. Karin Spaink o. Shari Steele p. Shelly Thomson q. David Touretzky r. Grady Ward s. Lawrence Wollersheim Demand 20. Any and all documents relating to postings made through the following servers: a. freezone.remailer b. nately.ucsd.edu c. penet.fi d. replay.comm e. utopia.hacktic.nI

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Re: Anonymnity at teleport
by Rich Burroughs 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 05:29 PM 4/21/96 EDT, Allen wrote: > A bit of interesting information about teleport. Still not as good >as c2 (as I stated), but it's still good to have multiple anonymous account >providers around... whether or not they mean to be anonymous. This is from a >sysadmin type there (why I deleted the name) who I'll ask about the Majordomo >patch. [snip] And to think I gave them my real name... Do check about the majordomo patch. It's saved list owners here a lot of headaches. I'm not sure what it would take to implement, but the end result is very good, IMHO. Rich ______________________________________________________________________ Rich Burroughs richieb(a)teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~richieb See my Blue Ribbon Page at http://www.teleport.com/~richieb/blueribbon New EF zine "cause for alarm" - http://www.teleport.com/~richieb/cause

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privacy
by CS5549＠conrad.appstate.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Send me info....soon!!!

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Re: Was the clause for Biometric ID Cards dropped?
by shamrock＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 17:12 4/21/96, E. ALLEN SMITH wrote: > As the subject line says, was the proposal for Biometric ID Cards >dropped? I saw something about it on here and forwarded it; my respondent >(Phil Agre of the RRE news service) says he thought that clause had been >dropped. If it passes this year, next year, or five years from now, pass it will. With the customary >90%. Presumably after a suitable Reichstag Brand. Disclaimer: My opinions are my own, not those of my employer. -- Lucky Green <mailto:shamrock@netcom.com> PGP encrypted mail preferred.

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Re: Jim Bell, Apology to list. Was: [Yadda Yadda Yadda]
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 11:44 PM 4/21/96, Black Unicorn wrote: >All this said, I find Mr. May's and Mr. Sandfort's criticism stinging. Mr. >Bell, and my response to him, manages to sap a great deal of time and effort >from myself and others for no gain aside draining his (and to some extent >my) reputation >capital. These disputes serve little purpose otherwise. It's clear to By the way, I certainly was not making a personal condemnation of Uni, or of Jim Bell for that matter. I was mainly making the point that Sandy's point about setting up a wager is problematic (in fact, Uni makes the same points vis-a-vis his view of how Bell might start finagling about the terms of any bet--this was in fact seen during the Extropians experiments, and is what I meant when I said that more time would be spent debating the bet....). I admit that I once I wrote the word "the Unibells" (Uni + Bell, of course), I liked the ring of it (:-}) and used it for the thread title as well. I was serious that I deleted unread the Bell/Unicorn rants; I suspect nearly all others do as well, so their time spent on these messages these last several weeks was even more of a waste. --Tim May Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^756839 - 1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: Smartcards are coming to the US
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:06 PM 4/21/96, Lucky Green wrote: >At 15:15 4/21/96, Brad Dolan wrote: >>Saw a CNN story Friday about an interesting special debit card >>application in Mexico. They're being issued to poor Mexicans, who can >>use them to buy tortillas and a few other foodstuffs. The cards are tied to >>a behavior-control database and failure to send kids to school, get >>mandatory medical exams/treatments/vaccinations, etc. results in card >>deactivation. > >My first response was: he is making this up. But it shoudn't come as a >surprise to any reader of this list. Expect to see more of it. Why should this surprise you? In the U.S. there are _already_ several programs which are similar to this Mexican example. For example, "food stamps." Not valid for expenditures on alchohol, tobacco, and various other disapproved-of consumables. One hand takes away the tax monies (albeit not from those getting food stamps, as their income is typically exempt from taxation) and the other hand doles out a special form of scrip that can theoretically only be spent on approved-of substances. Someday--maybe when Perry is out of the country at an IETF meeting--I'll forward my article about the scandalous plan to privatize the nation's food stores, thus making food only available to the rich and denying the poor of their access to the foodstuffs deemed nutricious by the Parent-Grocer Associations (PGAs) and available at their local People's Public Food Distribution Centers. (This was a piece I did in the late 1980s, critiquing the critics of schools vouchers and private schools by imagining a world in which food distribution was done at "public stores" and run much the way our public education is run.) --Tim May Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^756839 - 1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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A better entropy estimation method for random.c/noise.sys?
by Deranged Mutant 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I've been hacking with the hashing method used in noise.sys and decided to throw it away, since it did more to overestimate the entropy. Until I find something better an xor-checksum of the ast N samples seems to do fine. Alternating samples generate no entropy and samples with periods <= N seem to generate less than 1 bit per sample. The method (in pseudo-code) is as follows: delta = abs( LastSample - sample ) LastSample = sample hash ^= delta /* until I can think of a better hashing algorithm */ swap delta, lastNtable[ indexNtable ] indexNtable = (indexNtable+1) mod N hash ^= delta t = counter /* counts the number of samples so far */ counter++ swap t, lastseen[ hash & (TABLESIZE-1) ] diff = lastseen[ hash & (TABLESIZE-1) ] - t if diff<=N, assume no entropy (or fractional entropy?) otherwise return log2(diff) Comments? Rob. --- Send a blank message with the subject "send pgp-key" to <WlkngOwl(a)unix.asb.com> for a copy of my PGP key.

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Betting (Re: [Yadda Yadda Yadda]....)
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 5:28 PM 4/21/96, Sandy Sandfort wrote: >This is not extropians. We are more anarchic, less ideological >and more goal oriented. I suspect we also delete more messages, too. By the way, my hunch is that virtually none of us know very well what Bell and Uni are saying to each other, so who would possibly agree to be the judge? Maybe Sandy, you will volunteer. Let us know how it turns out, if it turns out and $100 actually changes hands. ... >And you like endless cross-talking better? In any event, the No, I prefer to delete arguments I have no interest in. This includes Bell and Uni ranting at each other, or other ranting at each other (and I don't hold myself blameless here, natch), etc. My memories of the Extropians experiments were that I deleted most of the "polycentric law" court cases and "decision duel" wagers. I recall there were wagers involving Mike Price, Perry Metzger, Tim Starr, Eric Raymond, and others, though I don't recall what the issues were about, nor who won, nor if any money was actually transferred on _any_ of these wagers. What I remember is what James Donald also remembers, that large amounts of bandwidth got consumed in debates about the terms, about the conditions for payout, and about weaseling out of judgments. If Harry Shapiro is reading our list, he can perhaps shed some light on things, as he was a sort of List Judge and Executioner at the time. >> At $500, our problem would become much worse, rather than much >> better. > >Here we agree, 100%. By the way, I recall that bets on the Extropians list rapidly escalated to "serious" levels. I recall one apparently-serious [see below] bet of $10,000. I say "apparently serious" because the bettor did not appear to be joking. However, it also seemed likely he was using the outrageous size to "bluff" his opponent into backing down, just as James Donald alluded to. My "bet" is that the issues in ever formulating such a large bet would ensure that it never got realized...precisely the desired result of absurdly large bets. I'll bet $10,000 that no bet of $10,000 or more ever actually gets settled on this list. (By "absurdly large" I mean in this context. I have many times placed "bets" much larger than this on stock market expectations, but not on "bar bets." Such a bet would never be collected, would in fact be tied up in waffling, finessing, backing off, dissemmbling, shuffling, and, of course, would never be collected upon.) But, again, if Sandy is volunteering to judge, and both Jim Bell and Unicorn accept him and the terms....well, I won't stop them. Let me know what happens, but please include a tag like "[Final Bet Outcome]," as I'll be skipping the likely back-and-forth posturing. --Tim May Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^756839 - 1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: Scientology harassing anon.penet.fi again!
by E. ALLEN SMITH 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: IN%"frogfarm(a)yakko.cs.wmich.edu" 21-APR-1996 19:39:01.86 >I'm sure within hours of reading this message, you'll be inundated with >requests to have Phil "send me the stuff and I'll post it". The net is >full of people to whom a letter from Helena Kobrin [CoS attorney] is >like a Medal of Honor, who would be happy to relieve Phil of liability >by posting the material themselves. Umm... he'd like to send it out on a mailing list (the RRE newsletter) to which only he can post. Plus, it's simply the stuff that was on cypherpunks. -Allen

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Re: Scientology harassing anon.penet.fi again!
by E. ALLEN SMITH 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Umm... I'm getting quite a few offers to forward the material in question; thank you. But it's just the stuff that was on cypherpunks earlier. And he's wanting to know if _he_ can safely legally (w/regards to the Scientologists) put it on _his_ mailing list - which isn't a discussion list. Sorry that it apparantly wasn't clear, although I have no idea how it wasn't. Thanks, -Allen

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Re: Smartcards are coming to the US
by Alan Olsen 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 03:15 PM 4/21/96 -0400, Brad Dolan wrote: >Saw a CNN story Friday about an interesting special debit card >application in Mexico. They're being issued to poor Mexicans, who can >use them to buy tortillas and a few other foodstuffs. The cards are tied to >a behavior-control database and failure to send kids to school, get >mandatory medical exams/treatments/vaccinations, etc. results in card >deactivation. Interesting method of social control. "Do anything we don't like and we revoke your ability to spend money through government approved outlets." What a Brave New World we live in... --- Alan Olsen -- alano(a)teleport.com -- Contract Web Design & Instruction `finger -l alano(a)teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key http://www.teleport.com/~alano/ "We had to destroy the Internet in order to save it." - Sen. Exon

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RE: Betting (Re: [Yadda Yadda Yadda]....)
by blanc 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Well, I don't know about Sandy or Tim, but I found the rants between Jim & Uni somewhat amusing (although I myself only skimmed through them) because for every huff&puff which transpired between them, Uni was prompted to dig up more info from the depths of his knowledge, and this effect was quite interesting, psychologically, as well as in regard of the info which came out of it. I expect Jim & Uni could become great friends! (giggle) .. Blanc

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Re: Add-in encryption module to Netscape
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 09:55 PM 4/20/96 -0700, frantz(a)netcom.com (Bill Frantz) wrote: >I have thought about the sources of entropy available to a Java applet, and >there aren't many. You should design your protocol so entropy is not >needed on the applet side. Entropy is normally used to pick symmetric >encryption keys, and Initialization vectors If your applet wants to set up a Diffie-Hellman connection, it'll need a random number to set its half-key; a scribble window may be good enough. # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com, +1-415-442-2215

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Re: OS/2 encryption
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 06:53 AM 4/21/96, mirele(a)xmission.com wrote: >Well, anything to slow them down. It was reported to me that when Dennis >Erlich was raided last year, they rendered his computer unbootable because >of the deletions they had made. As it is, I haven't been able to find an >appropriate security utility beyond PGP (which I've been using for over a >year anyway). So this discussion is moot. Good luck finding something. You might want to see if there's a Norton version for OS/2; their Diskrete product for DOS may not be the highest quality system in the world but at least it's a start, and maybe they do OS/2. There are two ways the Bad Guys can get your system, or the data off it - they can get a search/seizure warrant, or they can subpoena it into court, and you have a lot more control over the process with a subpoena, though the court may be able to compel production of your password (that's debatable, and it's been much debated here and on Cyberia-L, but a search or seizure warrant _can't_ get your password if it's not written down.) Therefore, if they do a seizure, and your file system is encrypted, the Bad Guys can trash the whole thing, or random blocks, but without the password they can't selectively delete data, and trashing the whole thing could look _real_ bad for them in court. >Look folks. *This* is what it's about. I like a little humour. So what >I've been doing is taking *posted* documents and running them through a >filter (the "encheferizer" of alt.swedish.chef.bork.bork.bork) and then >reposting them to alt.religion.scientology. I have been doing this for >over a year. It's only been recently that (a) the Church <spit> started >cancelling them and (b) that they started threatening me over it. Parodies are legal, but translations may still violate copyright, and essentially you're doing an automated translation into some bizarre language space. So if you're using real* CoS documents, you may have a problem. [* Yeah, I know, "real CoS documents" is a bit of an oxymoron. ] Does the Chef do Clam Chowder? # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com, +1-415-442-2215

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Re: RSA-130 Falls to NFS - Lenstra Posting to sci.crypt.research
by Matts Kallioniemi 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 09:08 1996-04-16 -0500, Bruce Marshall wrote: >On Mon, 15 Apr 1996, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote: >> I have been wondering about malicious hackers getting into these >> pools. would it be possible for them to contribute false data >> that screws up the end results? or are such anomalies easily >> discarded or disregarded by the final processes? > > I guess I would have to ask you why you think hackers would be >interested in these projects in the first place? Your typical hacker >would care very little about such a project and in fact may be interested >in seeing it succeed. The hacker might be a Netscape shareholder. A successful cracking of ssl means that his shares lose value. Matts

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Re: Memorized secret keys
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 03:16 PM 4/19/96 -0700, Hal <hfinney(a)shell.portal.com> wrote: >Choose x bits of good random numbers (x defined below), calling it X. >Seed an MD5 iteration or some other crypto RNG with X and generate >random starting points for p and q. Search for the next primes after >these starting points to get p and q, multiply to get n, and choose the >first exponent >= 3 or 17 or 65537 (choose by taste) as e. Burn p and >q but memorize the random seed X. An interesting approach; given enough spare computing, the passphrase is the key. Remember to transform the passphrase space into some wide-enough space that it will include a bunch of primes, to avoid having multiple passphrases generating the same prime. Primes density is approximately log n (ln n?), e.g. 1/512 for a 512-bit number, so a crude approach like using a 128-bit hash as the most significant bits should do fine. >The main question is, can x be both long enough that it is not the >weakest length in factoring, say, a 1024 bit key, while being short >enough that it can be memorized? >My guess is that x must be 80-120 bits, somewhere in there. This would >be 6 to 9 words chosen from a 16K word list: marginaly doable. Almost by definition, you want at least 128 bits, since you'll probably be using the public key crypto to protect a 128-bit session key. (Keys for signatures may need a bit less slack, though I'd still be wary of <90 bits.) Also, if you're starting by taking an MD5 of the passphrase (after looking up the words in the dictionary or whatever), you're limited to 128 bits of entropy; it's probably worth using SHA, or at least picking p from the MD5 and q from the MD5 of the reverse of the passphrase. # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com, +1-415-442-2215

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Re: Add-in encryption module to Netscape
by frantz＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:04 PM 4/21/96 -0700, Bill Stewart wrote: >At 09:55 PM 4/20/96 -0700, frantz(a)netcom.com (Bill Frantz) wrote: >>I have thought about the sources of entropy available to a Java applet, and >>there aren't many. You should design your protocol so entropy is not >>needed on the applet side. Entropy is normally used to pick symmetric >>encryption keys, and Initialization vectors > >If your applet wants to set up a Diffie-Hellman connection, it'll need >a random number to set its half-key; a scribble window may be good enough. Indeed, Bill Stewart (and someone else whose name I forget) are right. I had it in the back of my head that you don't want to harass the user. If you are willing, as in PGP, to ask the user to enter some entropy, then there you can get some sources of randomness which may be good enough. However, do be conservative. After being conservative, gather 10 times as much as you thought you needed. The models of entropy in scribbling are none too good. Regards - Bill ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Bill Frantz | The CDA means | Periwinkle -- Computer Consulting (408)356-8506 | lost jobs and | 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz(a)netcom.com | dead teenagers | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA

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Re: Anonymnity at teleport
by Duncan Frissell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>>>Our users can have a P.O. Box as their address (or a false address), >>>whatever they want as their 'real name', and can pay for their accounts by >>>mailing in cash. All they need to do is be close to a phone that isn't >>>theirs for an hour or so. >> >>>The can put in a phone# when they set up, then call in from that phone (even >>>if it isn't their own) and have one of us call them back with a few >>>minutes...all set. Of course, you can also do this with CompuServe or any service that uses phone verification. I opened my CompuServe account in my True Name but with the phone number of one of my mail receiving services. They wanted a similar callback scheme as above. I went to my mail receiving service, called the CIS 800 number and they called me right back. I was friendly with my mail services so had no trouble. DCF

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Re: CoS and anon remailers
by Duncan Frissell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 02:49 PM 4/10/96 -0400, Jim Byrd wrote: >My feeling is that they will be doing anything they can >to attempt to produce "hard evidence" that I am part of >the Grand Conspiracy. I would say it is virtually certain >that U.S. anon remailers will be subpoenaed as well as any >foreign ones in which they can handle the authorities. Isn't it a bit difficult to subpeona an anonymous remailer? If run on a large enough system, a remailer can be shut down but not siezed. (I can imagine the marshalls hauling off the Cal Tech mainframes.) If a remailer operator has an accomodation address and/or a false name effective service of process also becomes difficult. Usually in life I've noticed that if you just ignore stuff it goes away. Occaisionally you will be hassled but if you ignore many of the orders of others for your whole life, you will find that your net amount of what we might call "autonomous activity" will be greater than if you slavishly obey every order. DCF

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Re: Was the clause for Biometric ID Cards dropped?
by Duncan Frissell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 07:20 PM 4/21/96 -0700, Lucky Green wrote: >At 17:12 4/21/96, E. ALLEN SMITH wrote: >> As the subject line says, was the proposal for Biometric ID Cards >>dropped? I saw something about it on here and forwarded it; my respondent >>(Phil Agre of the RRE news service) says he thought that clause had been >>dropped. > >If it passes this year, next year, or five years from now, pass it will. >With the customary >90%. Presumably after a suitable Reichstag Brand. But since they are unlikely to imprison you for not having them. And you will be able to be self employed and drive cars (with foreign or no licenses) and everything without them. What good are they? DCF "Note to commentators about little Jessica's tragic crash. It *is* legal for 7 year olds to drive cars as long as they don't do so on the public streets and highways."

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Re: Bad news from Judge Richey
by nobody＠tjava.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 11:33 PM 3/25/96 tcmay wrote: ------------------- jim bell: >talk to Jim Bell about implementing a program using encryption that doesn't >_need_ to be exported...legally anyway. tcmay: You're coming perilously close to actually calling for the killing of a federal judge. My recollection is that a couple of folks have been arrested and charged for calling for the killing of judges. ------------------- Any half-wit falling for agent provocateur Bell's rap will do hard time, or maybe get popped "in self-defense" by his TLA watchers. The son-of-a-bitch's baiting pigeon traps, no question. He's too myopic to see how he's luring falcons for attack by high-circling eagles. Bell's going down blind-sided with his gulls.

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Re: Dictionary searching code
by Paul_Koning/US/3Com%3COM＠smtp1.isd.3com.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 08:02 PM 4/19/96 -0500, Adam wrote: > Does anyone have some code that will search a dictionary, and >tell me *quickly* if an arbitrary chunk of text is in the dictionary? >Pre-indexing steps are fine, as is using big chunks of disk for hash >tables. The point of course, is to check arbitrary possible plaintext >that a test decryption produces. If you want to do string matching (search for an exact match on a string -- as opposed to checking whether a set of words is in a database) a good choice would be the Boyer-Moore algorithm. It has the nice property that worst case it requires O(n) time (n = dictionary byte count) but on average it is quite a lot better -- and furthermore, the longer the string you're looking for, the faster it gets... paul !----------------------------------------------------------------------- ! Paul Koning, NI1D, C-24183 ! 3Com Corporation, 1-3A, 118 Turnpike Road, Southborough MA 01772 USA ! phone: +1 508 229 1695, fax: +1 508 490 5873 ! email: paul_koning(a)isd.3com.com or paul_koning(a)3mail.3com.com ! Pgp: 27 81 A9 73 A6 0B B3 BE 18 A3 BF DD 1A 59 51 75 !----------------------------------------------------------------------- ! "Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors ! -- and miss!" ! -- Robert A. Heinlein, "The Notebooks of Lazarus Long" ! in "Time Enough for Love"

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Re: Unsubsrive
by MBSFT-0K 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> > > unsubscribe cypherpunks Lorca Kelly MBSFT-0K(a)carraig.ucd.ie

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Re: java security
by Mike Fletcher 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> >A couple of glitches I've gotten from Javascripts are poorly > >(purposely?) written applets that crash. One kept printing a modal > >dialog box continuously, the result being a need to reboot the > >computer because there was no way to exit Netscape or Windows. > > I can confirm this. Under Win95, I have seen applets that keep running > after the browswer instance that loaded has been closed. Even run over > other applications windows, leaving aninmated artifacts on the screen. > Sometimes only the power switch will do. I thought that the applets weren't > supposed to be able to wander out of their memory space... Applets (let alone javascript) should have no way to exist once you kill the Netscape that is running the Java interpreter. It is possible for applets to keep running in their own thread even after you've left the page they're loaded from, but once you kill the browser the VM should get shut down (the whole browser, not just a particular window). I can't think of any way that an applet could keep going once the VM stops. As for the original dialog thing, couldn't you C-A-Del it to get the task window up and then shutdown the offending NS task? --- Fletch __`'/| fletch(a)ain.bls.com "Lisa, in this house we obey the \ o.O' ______ 404 713-0414(w) Laws of Thermodynamics!" H. Simpson =(___)= -| Ack. | 404 315-7264(h) PGP Print: 8D8736A8FC59B2E6 8E675B341E378E43 U ------

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