December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: "Hackers"-- brief review and anecdote...
by Robert A. Rosenberg 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 09:51 9/18/95, Steven Levy wrote: >No chance. The problem for me isn't that someone wanted to call a movie >Hackers but that it causes confusion in that for eleven years there has >been a preexisiting work by that name. There is a novelization of the >screenplay now in paperback, so when if a friend recommends that you buy >Hackers, you'll probably buy that one. (especially since Dell is >determined to do as little as possible for my own book). Normally when there can be confusion between a movie title and an existent book title (in that the movie could be a dramatization of the book based on general subject matter), the movie gets title clearance, pays a token release fee to the book's author, and puts up a title clearance credit in the movie credits. For an example of this, check out Bladerunner (based on "Do Androids Dream of Electronic Sheep?" not "Bladerunner" [which was by a different author]) credits where the prior uses of the title were mentioned.

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PGP back in legal limbo?
by hoz＠univel.telescan.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> WSJ, Sept 19, 1995. > Cylink Claims Right To Key Technology Involving > Encryption > ... The arbitrators > ruled that RSA hasn't had the right to sublicense the > Stanford patents since 1990. >Since PKP (and Bidzos, now president of >RSA) always said that DH covered all public key encryption, >it would seem that any RSA licensee would also need a license >from Cylink. So, I suppose this invalidates the RSA agreement that allows PGP to be distributed? What "fortunate" timing for the pro GAK folks! Okay, everybody in US, erase your copies, before the Feral government comes to get you....... Rick F. Hoselton (who doesn't claim to present opinions for others)

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Re: FBI calls for mandatory key escrow; Denning on export ctrls
by Brian B. Riley 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 So, looking at all this, what does it mean???? Are they going to have an amnesty period when I can run down to my local firehouse and turn in my PGP5 CDROM without risking going to jail? Will MIT turn over logs of everyone who ever d/l-ed PGP2 and we have four weeks to turn over every backup disk we ever made? If they do get this by us, and I decide to use their silly-assed encryption, do I get a ten year all expense paid vacation at the Allenwood Hilton if I send my bootlegged PGP message inside their encryption? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQA/AwUBNA4oP8dZgC62U/gIEQLkIQCgsEasNm3JxBrHz1djEo2BvO1jyikAnis8 fDdwE1GjXBOhOMRrNRxSs0XW =Wz3y -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Brian B. Riley --> http://www.macconnect.com/~brianbr For PGP Keys - Send Email Subject "Get PGP Key" "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" -- Samuel Johnson "With all due respect to an enlightened but inferior lexicographer I beg to submit that it is the first." -- Ambrose Bierce's commentary on Johnson's definition.

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Commercial RSAref
by Adam Shostack 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

First off, let me congratulate you on inking this deal. I hope that this will make a lot of interesting things possible, now that there is an RSAref toolkit outside the US, and also for commercial use in the US. I have a few questions, which I hope you can answer publically. Will there be a public, standard fee schedule? Many companies would like to be able to use RSA technology for a fee, and would like to know what that fee is without having to explain their plans in great detail to RSA. I know people who would like to be able to say, heres a check, we're shipping software using RSAref to 5000 desktops. Will you be adding access points to the software? I know that PGP required new interfaces, previously unpublished, and that use of unpublished interfaces was also a problem RSA had with Wei Dai's excellent Crypto++ library. Adam Jonathan Zamick wrote: | Well I've vaccilated between making a formal, dry announcement or | letting you all know my way. Given the general tenor (and individual | spirit) of many on Toad it is pretty easy to guess which path I chose. | So, first of all, here is to a productive future for encryption and | encryption technologies. Consensus Development and RSA Data Security, | have finalized the contract for Consensus to license and support | RSAREF(tm) for commercial use. | Lastly, we would like to hear suggestions and ideas on how to improve | RSAREF. We intend to remain responsive to requests, and welcome ideas | for the evolution of the RSAREF toolkit. "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume

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Re: Big Brother is watching
by Sean Roach 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 03:43 AM 9/4/97 +0200, Anonymous wrote: ... >>With this wonderful sucess, We can all look forward to this items being >>placed in our domiciles in order to further protect us from crime. > >And I'll give my kids a can of spray paint and a ladder. Maybe I'll offer >bonus prizes if they can figure out an inventive, undetectable way to disable >the fucker. ... In Altus, it is illegal to sell spray paint to persons under the age of 18. That makes two violations of their rights that I know of. The curfue which was enacted a couple years ago being the first. All because the local politicians are fully aware that they are too young to vote.

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[NOISE] Unabomber - crypto-anarchist?!?
by Sherry Mayo 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Found this quote from the Electronic Telegraph, the online version of a UK daily newspaper. (world news section, Weds 20th Sept) http://www.telegraph.co.uk/et/access?ac=116192744309&pg=//95/9/20/wunab20.h… "Editors forced to print manifesto of Unabomber By Charles Laurence in New York ...The heart of his argument is that industrial society has led to ways of life for which people are fundamentally unsuited. He calls for a crypto-anarchic revolution and a new order based on small, village-style units." ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Uh? Crypto-anarchic? Surely he's not one of ours? ;-) ;-) ;-) Sherry ps You are supposed to register to read the ET but I registered as "cypherpunks" passwd "cypherpunks" - don't worry I didn't give the mailing list address.

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U.S. Prison Labor
by bureau42 Anonymous Remailer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Does anyone have pointers to information/details about U.S. prison inmates being used as slave labour for international corporations? Thanx

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Re: "Hackers"-- brief review and anecdote...
by Rich Salz 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>The question was, essentially, what do you think should happen to a >teenage hacker ... Oops. Sorry for the mistake. /r$

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Crypto Law Survey updated
by Bert-Jaap Koops 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I have just updated my survey of existing and envisaged cryptography laws and regulations. See the Crypto Law Survey at http://cwis.kub.nl/~frw/people/koops/lawsurvy.htm This update includes: -update on Australia (Walsh recommendations), Denmark (report by Expert Committee), France (decree deemed imminent), Sweden (Inspection for strategic goods), US (Bernstein decision, Junger amended complaint) -change on Singapore (unclear availability domestic crypto) -URL added to Sweden (export law) -FAQ added -lay-out restyled Besides, I have added to my homepage pages on my research (crypto & crime) and on key recovery and PKIs. I've also added a collection of links on these areas. See: http://cwis.kub.nl/~frw/people/koops/research.htm Comments are as always welcomed. Kind regards, Bert-Jaap --------------------------------------------------------------------- Bert-Jaap Koops tel +31 13 466 8101 Center for Law, Administration and facs +31 13 466 8149 Informatization, Tilburg University e-mail E.J.Koops(a)kub.nl -------------------------------------------------- Postbus 90153 | This world's just mad enough to have been made | 5000 LE Tilburg | by the Being his beings into being prayed. | The Netherlands | (Howard Nemerov) | --------------------------------------------------------------------- http://cwis.kub.nl/~frw/people/koops/bertjaap.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: Verification of Random Number Generators
by David Van Wie 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Tue, 19 Sep 1995 09:04:29 -0700 "Erik E. Fair" wrote: -------- >> >> Just an idle thought: it might be possible to do a probabalistic >> verification of a RNG by sampling it over some number of samples, and >> statistically analyzing the sample space. This would be analysis under the >> model of "RNG as black box" as opposed to (or rather, if you're smart, in >> addition to) code inspection & review. Any statisticians among us? >> >> Erik Fair >> The problem with a statistic is that it assumes an independent variable. If the variable is not truely independent (which happens with some frequency in real world analysis), any purported statistical result is meaningless (undefined, to be more precise). Clearly, the hack of netscape relied on the fact that the vairable was not independent. >But statistical tests of randomness alone do not make a good RNG. >At least, not for cryptographic use. A cryptographically secure >RNG is also unpredictable, i.e., computationally unfeasible to >predict the next random bit will be given the algorithm, and not >reliably reproduced, i.e., multiple runs with the exact same input >do not generate the same sequence. This is almost right. Statistical tests work fine if they are conducted on independent variables. dvw

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Re: [PGP-USERS] Crypto-logic US$1 million Challenge
by geeman＠best.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

There was a Snake-oil FAQ floating around for quite a while that addressed all this in some detail. This scheme/scam has circulated before, too although I forget the name of the perpetrating company. At 02:40 PM 9/3/97 -0400, William H. Geiger III wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >In <97090316550827/0002595870PK5EM(a)mcimail.com>, on 09/03/97 > at 11:55 AM, Jeffrey Gold <0002595870(a)MCIMAIL.COM> said: > >>Although it's not PGP, I thought this might be of interest. >>I've condensed a Wall Street Journal Article with info from >>the web page http://www.ultimateprivacy.com > >> A start-up company is offering a $1 million challenge. Crypto- >>Logic Corp. of Austin, Texas, claims to have created an encryption >>system for electronic mail so foolproof that it can't be broken. If >>someone can figure out a special encrypted e-mail message within a >>year, the company says it will pay a reward of $1 million. > >> Cryptologists agree that the decades-old encryption method that >>Crypto-Logic is claiming to use -- called a "one-time pad" -- >>is theoretically unbreakable. Each "pad" has a set of uniquely >>random digital symbols that are coded to the actual message. >>The recipient uses the same symbols to decrypt the message. >>The pads are used only once. > >> Of course, the problem with any one-time pad is the distribution >>of multiple pads. A new one is needed for each message. Public-key >>cryptography (used by PGP) addresses this issue. It is not clear >>how Crypto-Logic Corp. addresses the distribution issue. > > >ROTFLMAO!!!!! > >What a sweet little scam they have going here. :) > >While there product cost $99, which is not unreasonable for a security product of this nature, they charge $49 for the "OTP's" (I'll get to the OTP's later)!!! > >Now they way they have this set-up is that for each person that you are communicating with requires a separate "OTP". The program comes with 2 "OTP's" and additional "OTP's" can be purchased for $49. So say you have 10 people you wish to communicate with you are talking almost $500 out the gate to get going!!! This is just silly. > > >Now to "OTP's". These are the things that snake-oil salesmen's dreams are made of. Here is how their sales pitch works (and i have seen many of them over the years): > > >1) OTP's are unbreakable >2) We use an OTP >3) Our program is unbreakable >4) You should use our program > >I will address all three points of their sales pitch and show the flaws in it. > >1) OTP's are unbreakable: > > To understand how one can make this claim (and it is true) on needs to understand what a OTP is and how it works. > >A OPT (One Time Pad) is just a file of random numbers. That's it, nothing fancy here. To encrypt a message one takes the bits in the plaintext and an equal amount of bits from the OTP and XOR them together. The result is just another random file of bits. To get the plaintext back one takes the "encrypted" files and Xor's it with the same bits used the first time. > >Quite simple but there is a catch: > > Your OTP must but TRULY RANDOM!! If there are any patterns in your "random" data you are dead in the water. The biggest flaw in products that claim to use OTP's is they use what is called a PRNG (pseudo random number generator). Unfortunately the data that PRNG's produce are not sufficiently "random" for use in OTP's. It has long been accepted in the field of cryptology that you *MUST* use a real world sample for random data, things like measuring the time intervals between click on a Geiger counter measuring background radiation. > >A second catch: > > You must never, never reuse any of the bits from your OTP!!! As simple as this seems (after all this is why they call it an One Time Pad) there are programmers out there that fail to grasp this basic concept. Now AFAIK there is no pad reuse with this program. That's where their revenue stream is comming from charging you for the new pads! > >So if you use truly random data (no PRNG's) and you never reuse bits then an OTP encrypted message is provably unbreakable. > > >2) We use OTP's > >I have seen numerous claims by various "snake-oil" salesmen that their program uses an OTP only too see that they are using a PRNG to generate their "OTP". I even had one claim that it was ok to reuse his PRNG generated pad. > >Now since the company provided no details on how they generate the OTP's who knows what they are doing. > >3) Our program is unbreakable > >Well if they are dotting all their I's and crossing all their T's when it comes to generating and using OTP's then yes the message is unbreakable. > >But wait their program does not generate the OTP's you must buy them from the company!! This means that a 3rd party outside of you and the person you are communicating with has a copy of the pad!!! This is a big no-no in cryptology. Anyone who has access to the OTP can decrypt any message that was encrypted using it. What type of security do they have on site? Who has access to the OTP's?? How are they generated?? What are their policies if the government requests access to these OTP's?? All questions left unanswered by the company. > >I must say that I seriously question the on-site security of the OTP's considering how the initial OTP's are sent to the customer, (drum roll please), the just MAIL them!!!! > >This brings us to the third catch to using OTP's: How to exchange the pads. > >Before the advent of Public Key Encryption this was the most daunting task in cryptology. How do you get the keys to the people who need them to decrypt the message??? With OTP's or any form of cryptology where the same key is used to encrypt and decrypt the message the user must find a "secure" channel for exchanging the keys. This is no different than a key to a house or a car, the same key is used to lock and unlock the door. Anyone who has a copy of the key can unlock the door. Need less to say you don't just send the key in the mail. Usually such exchanges are done in person or if this is not practical a "trusted" courier is used to exchange the key. Not very practical for every day use. > > >4) You should use our program > >Consider the following: > >- -- Unknown methods used for generation Otp's >- -- Customer unable to generate their own OTP's >- -- Unknown "on-site" security >- -- Otp's escrowed by company (they have a copy of your keys) >- -- Additional cost for each new key >- -- Obvious lack of security in mailing initial Otp's to customers >- -- No solution to the key exchange problem >- -- No source code for program > >I would not use this program nor would I recommend it to anyone else. There are may other programs that provide overall better security than what this program ever can or ever will provide. > >I will CC: the Cyberpunks & Coderpunks list as there may be others there who can better expand on this issue. > > >- -- >- --------------------------------------------------------------- >William H. Geiger III http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii >Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 > >Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice >PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. >OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html >- --------------------------------------------------------------- > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >Version: 2.6.3a >Charset: cp850 >Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 > >iQCVAwUBNA2vRI9Co1n+aLhhAQF7NgP/TIfrhNW8QMiqNBE0atN0lVBeZFtTk1Jh >ARJeGkh+ZxV+yphx0CGe9xMWRLYx3qqFPmb69iPG3AdRiLFVigSoK5HiNo857ilh >6pSt3ZHVJStJ8BjPazH+n3QXQGtrCZ2hBF6kBWfPxDMFdc+dZZ0y0/4kSt60Dnx1 >CulFvdCNIK4= >=yDMp >-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > >

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Re: FBI calls for mandatory key escrow
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tim May wrote: > Even the weaker form of Freeh's suggestion, that key escrow capabilities be > forced into all Internet products, even if the use is "voluntary," seems to > lack constitutional support. Could the Federal Trade Commission force all > products to have such features? The Consumer Safety Products Commission? > > I don't know where the authority for mandatory seat belts and air bags is > claimed to come from, either. Or helmet laws in various states. The 'authority' comes, as always, from power and money. The "Drive 55" mandate is a perfect example of the government stealing the citizen's money, then giving it back in the form of highway funding, with the condition that those states who don't give up their right to decide their own state laws don't get any cash. The greedy fucks feeding at the government troughs want to get their hands on that money _now_, because there is no telling who will be ahead of them in at the trough by the time the Constitutional issues are settled. The bottom line is that the federal government gets their authority by virtue of armed robbery, bribery and illegal seizure. Who is going to stop them? They have the guns! When our elected officials in Congress delved into the INSLAW affair, the Department of Justice told them to "Fuck off." and refused to cooperate with those who represent the citizens. Congress's reaction was to say, "Yup. They're defying us." Ipso facto--Congress is not running the country. The LEA's are running the country. Go figure... TruthMonger # -23A(Sub.C)-009

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Re: Militias
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tim May wrote: > > I just watched an hour-long special on CBS, "The Birth of a Militia," about > the Rocky Mountain Militia is southern Utah. > The militia member who was arrested, tried, and convicted of illegally > owning a gun, evading the police, and driving without a license, apparently > committed no serious crimes, by my standards. He didn't rob, he didn't > rape, he didn't kill. > > As the Sheriff was quoted several times as saying, he "mouthed off." And > apparently being a "skinhead" and a "militia member" is ipso facto proof of > criminality. The Sheriff said he planned to get Johnny. I watched the show and couldn't figure out exactly what the 'crimes' were supposed to consist of. I eventually got the impression that the real 'crime' was "intent to have a bad attitude." My basic read is that they are going to fuck with those they don't like until their sense of human dignity forces them to make a stand, and then they will murder them and use the event as more evidence of our need to be protected from 'unauthorized' nuts with guns. I don't know about you, but I would much rather get murdered by an 'authorized' nut with a gun, than an 'unauthorized' nut with a gun. It seems so much more civilized, somehow. When militia members leave for their meetings, do their mothers remind them to put on clean underwear, in case they get murdered by law enforcement agents? This is what cypherpunks enquiring minds really want to know. TruthMonger

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Re: netscape broken on NPR
by Alan Olsen 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 03:06 PM 9/19/95 -0500, you wrote: >NPR reported on the security flaw in Netscape, > >3:05 pm CDT. As well as CNN Headline news. (With the big Netscape N logo and everything.) They spent a fair amount of time (for CNN Headline news) on the story. | Minister of Forced Caffinization in the DNRC | alano(a)teleport.com | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmerman unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | | -- PGP 2.6.2 key available on request -- | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.teleport.com/~alano | <fnord> |

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Re: FBI calls for mandatory key escrow; Denning on export ctrls (fwd)
by Blanc 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tim May wrote: >A much stronger basis for stopping the Freeh nonsense is to strongly assert >the First Amendment. Dictating the form that speech must take--escrow--is >unconstitutional. ....................................................... One would think that Freeh, Denning, et al, would know these things already. Or that one of their legal advisors would remind them of it. I also noticed in the news on TV tonight that there are Clinton & Supporters, Inc. proposals being prepared for ensuring that stores actually do require purchasers of cigarrettes to display an ID, so that minors are prevented from smoking. This is also contrary to the principles of being left alone, but who among our protectors is watching over the boundary lines, fighting back the infidels? Who cares about the Constitution any more?

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Netscape closes UNCHANGED!
by carolann＠censored.org 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

NSCP is currently trading at $53 3/8 Symbol : NSCP Exchange : NASDAQ Description : NETSCAPE COMMUNICATIONS CORP COM Last Traded at: 53 3/8 Date/Time : Sep 19 4:00 $ Change : 0 % Change : 0.000000 Bid : 53 1/4 Ask : 53 1/2 Volume : 373500 # of Trades : 470 Opening Price : 49 1/4 Last Shares : 21 Day Low : 49 Day High : 53 1/2 52 Week Low : 45 3/4 52 Week High: 74 3/4 -- Member Internet Society - Certified BETSI Programmer - Webmistress *********************************************************************** Carol Anne Braddock (cab8) carolann(a)censored.org 206.42.112.96 My Homepage The Cyberdoc *********************************************************************** ------------------ PGP.ZIP Part [017/713] ------------------- M8H,),S$8G>&.WP(8IRA`-M['+`Q%&_C"">5-F%LX@<_Q$;*P'',Q$Z/AA[8M MF=O0H+*%(-S%&>S%+FS&<LS%3(Q&#W1"<]2%`H^;,]^1C$'HBN8PX$4SYAU^ MPGD<Q0ZLA0D+,`MCT!LA**4M[-JPAK9F?40!AJ,CW"'%DR#:'9?Q)3[%<DQ` ------------------------------------------------------------- for next chunk to export --> http://dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/export/

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Mini-mailbombs and Warning Letters
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

(This is not about MIME, but the astute reader will see some parallels...) I've received a couple of "automatically generated" pieces of e-amil which tell me that, in the generator's opinion, something is wrong with my public key, or it could not be found at the keyserver preferred by the owner of the mail generator, etc. Quoting from the latest: (identity of generator owner witheld) "P.S. This mail was composed by my mailreading sftwr, which automatically scans incoming mail, looking for failed keyserver requests, and prompts me whether it should automatically send this msg on my behalf. If there is a bug w this sftwr (for example, you never PGP sign your msgs, so this entire msg makes no sense), or if you're interested in the software itself (mail-secure.el: a package in lisp for emacs; this is just one of the many crypto/privacy related things it does) please mail the author of this package ( tjic(a)openmarket.com ) for details." As the saying goes, "Sigh." Being on a list with 700 subscribers, some of whom are running increasingly sophisticated automatic checking agents, I foresee an increase in these "warning letters" from their checking agents who feel posts are not adequate in some way. A minor issue, but symptomatic of trends. I'm dealing with it the same way I'm dealing with the few people who have something in their MIME setup that triggers my mailer (Eudora Pro 2.1) to treat their text as attachments. Namely, by filtering them out. --Tim May ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^756839 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders are just speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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on the social taboo/stigma
by Vladimir Z. Nuri 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

consider the recent events surrounding cigarettes. various laws were passed for many decades that made them more difficult to obtain and sell. regulations increased. yet they have not seen major effects in sales until relatively recently in history. why is this? because of the social taboo and stigma associated with them. this taboo and stigma only recently arose. and its efficacy is attested to by the figures on the sales of cigarettes, which have gone down considerably in the US. (yes I am aware of what is happening in foreign markets-- please stay with me for a minute). we have tobacco executives virtually being put on trial. their shame is palpable. what I would like to try to draw to your attention here to something very powerful. it is the social taboo or stigma, and in some ways it is the only long-lasting, enduring landmark of social consciousness. laws may come and go. people may obey or not follow laws. what is the difference? I think it is clear that it is not taboo to break some laws in the public's mind. (prohibition is one example). laws can be viewed as an attempt to create a social taboo or stigma via legislation. it is effective for the most part. but it can be unreasonable and public opinion can diverge from the laws. what is the cpunk relevance? well, I am trying to point out that taboos and stigmas are very powerful weapons. a government may have physical weapons, but not use them because of international stigma. the reaction of other countries might be so great that the "benefits" (a horrific term in this case) are not worth the loss of accommodations given by other countries, which would be retracted. social stigmas/tabboos are very important in gauging the psyche of a public. you can psychoanalyze the public at large by determining what they consider taboo or stigmas. mass social movements represent shifts in taboos and stigmas. consider the sexual revolution for example. in some ways, the taboo or stigma in a person's psyche are the root measure of their behavior, not laws. if someone perceives there is no taboo or stigma ("not getting caught" is related to this) there is no deterrent. === here's the application. if cpunks wish to achieve certain goals, one way is to try to create stigmas and taboos where none previously existed, or tear down those that already exist that are obstacles to the cpunk agenda. so, for example, a "stigma" about exporting unapproved cryptography could be turned into a badge of honor. likewise, we could create a "stigma" about working in the NSA. this is the main them I want to nail in this letter. many people are in jobs that some may consider ethically reprehensible. they believe they have no choice. consider the tens of thousands of very intelligent people (some of the most intelligent on the planet) that are *right*now* creating horrendous weapons of destruction in the name of "defense". they know in their hearts that these weapons are stretching the concept of defense to the "indefensible" so to speak. that is, they could only have offensive (in all senses of the word) applications. moreover, even if they have defensive capabilities, they have absolutely no way of ensuring their government would not misapply them. anyone who thinks otherwise is pathetically naive. there were famous scientists who developed the atom bomb who had major turns of thought after they saw how it was applied. but does anybody listen today? I encourage anyone working on their ingenious defense research to get the slightest historical clue about atom bomb development. how smart do you really think you are, if what you are developing can be misused, and you are merely a pawn in a big machine? I am writing this letter to all those people who are *right*now* channeling their own human energies into sinister applications. you might be working for the NSA. you might be working in the defense industry. whereever, whatever. you have pangs of conscience that you don't want to face. you can go a whole lifetime not thinking about it. your superiors and everything in your environment encourages you *not* to *think* about it. I am asking you to *think* about it. I am asking you to realize that governments cannot go in the direction that they are not supported. if tomorrow everyone who worked in the NSA said, "I am fed up, I don't have to take this job, they can intimidate me but this is a free country, I have skills that are valuable channelled elsewhere and not in constricting freedoms"-- the NSA would be dead. you don't need laws or to create revolutions or governments to get social change. in fact revolutions are typically intrinsically beyond laws, and new governments arise only when society's thoughts change. everything, *everything* that cpunks rail against is being held up by other *people*. these people are not evil, they merely think differently. many of them react to mass social pressure and stigma. can the public successfully create new, effective stigmas that pressure government to reform? it appears to me this is already happening. I suggest we focuse not on laws or institutions, but on the people holding them up, and their beliefs. I suspect there are people such as I am alluding to on the cypherpunk list. I think there are a lot of very talented programmers, for example, working on applications of highly questionable moral value (such as weapons of mass destruction). does anyone have any idea how much tax money goes into so-called "defense" projects? what evils have been perpetrated under the guise of "national security"? I believe that the value of the cpunk list is that it has successfully created some new taboos and stigmas (associated with spooks), and removed others (such as criticism of the government, etc.) I think that we need to create some new stigmas and nail them down emphatically. such as, "know that what you are working on is going toward a greater good" (i.e. a stigma or taboo associated with the lack of this), not "keep your mouth shut and don't ask any questions". consider a programmer union that had recommendations to its members such as these. "I will not work on code that can be misused for violence. I will not work on code that does not have adequate safeguards against its use" etc. do you know what all your friends and neighbors are doing? can we make it so that its really *uncool* to be supporting rotten institutions via one's labor, instead of having some kind of warped charisma associated with being a "rocket scientist"? to borrow an ominous phrase, I call on the oppressed workers of the world to unite. I call on you to discover your own power and conscience. I call on you to have a philosophy that you have thought out, and to adhere to it. consider what you are applying *your* energy to. and consider the possibility that even though you think you have no choice, that is the lie that keeps you as a secure brick in the wall of oppression. all the rotten structures of power would collapse in an instant if those who held them up stopped doing so. if nobody will work on his software, Big Brother cannot exist.

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Re: Investing on Information We Get Here
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 6:51 AM 9/20/95, Michael Shields wrote: >> (These computer lists are really great for investors! I heard about the >> Apple problems a few days before they hit the street, and was able to >> unload a bunch of shares at $45, a day before it dropped, now down to >> around $36. "He who hesitates to act on inside information is lost.") > >This isn't inside information in the illegal-to-trade-on-in-the-US sense, >is it? cypherpunks, while maybe not mainstream, is publicly available. Didn't you read my last line? "(Yes, I know that I am not an "insider" by SEC definitions. Poetic license.)" --Tim ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^756839 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders are just speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Smoking and IDs
by Blanc 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Lucky Green wrote: >As signs in any liquor store have been informing tobacco customers for >months, new FDA regulations require stores to check the ID of any tobacco >customer under 25. This despite the fact that you are legally allowed to >purchase tobacco products at age 18. If the store fails to check the ID of >a person legally permitted to conduct the purchase but is under age 25, the >store faces hefty fines. ........................................................ Thanks for providing more details on this, Lucky, I overlooked the fact that not everyone on the list will understand the situation was referring to. Another odd thing: I was talking to the clerk at a convenience store about the ID sign next to the register, and she said that on the other hand, there aren't any such requirements for the purchase of any of the cigars which were on display on the counter. Another odd thing is how popular cigars have become lately. Last month I bought a copy of "Cigar Aficionado" magazine to peruse, even though I don't smoke, because it was so pretty :>) and spent quite some time looking at their web site. It is a curious matter that when one "vice" is squelched, another grows in its place. This magazine really emphasizes living "the good life", and I discovered that there are places springing up all over the U.S. (and I expect elsewhere) which are smoking clubs - people can actually go there just to smoke their cigar, perhaps with a glass of after-dinner liquor. I thought this was a great idea, myself, because here these people can be with others who enjoy the same activity, and there's no one outside who can complain (not yet, anyway). I think sometimes it is not only a Truth, but a great & useful Means to an End, that "living well is the best revenge". Not sure how this will apply to transponder implants, though. A subject for late-night speculation.

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Re: Big Brother is watching
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Lucky Green wrote: > I read in this morning's paper that in the wake of Diana's death, bills are > being proposed to require licensing for the use of high powered telescopic > lenses such as those used by celebrity photographers. Ignoring for a moment > that such an act would make physical confrontation with said photographers > even more likely, I note the similarity in language used to describe camera > lenses to language used to describe certain firearms. Soon we will hear > about the dangers of "assault lenses". The sheeple will eat it up. For some reason this made me think of the thread containing light-bulb jokes, and some warped wit saying, "Sure, light bulb jokes are funny, until someone burns a retina..." Though I laughed my ass off, at the time, have things really begun to deteriorate so rapidly that I am justified in now wondering if there will be a "Light Bulb Joke Amendment" to the "Telescopic Lens Registration" legislation? TruthMonger

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We have a WINNER!!!
by Dead Lucky 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dead Lucky ---------- AP Lotto Enterprises (A Subdivision of the Reformatory Party of Canada) Unlucky in Life? Try your luck at Death! If you can correctly predict the date and time of death of others then you can win large prizes payable in untaxable, untraceable eca$h. ---------- Congratulations to the anonymous entity who correctly predicted the date of the death of Princess Diana. QEII - Come on down! Just send us the confirmation number you received at the time of your entry, along with instructions for forwarding your ecaSh prize. http://www3.sk.sympatico.ca/carljohn/AP/AP.htm Remember: "You can't win if someone doesn't pay." NOTICE: We regret that we cannot take any more bets on the death of the New World Order ruler until we lay some of them off with other AP betting agencies. TID BITS: Congratulations to G-J B, the anonymous bettor from Edmonton, Alberta, who won this month's free AP T-shirt with his suggestion that there should be a bonus prize for anyone who correctly predicts the date of death of any politician whose body is found with a note attached which says, "I think Congress/Parliament needs each of us to send ten copies of this back to them."

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FREE LINK LISTING
by Jim＠Famailcrt.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Re: Big Brother is watching
by Brian B. Riley 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On 9/4/97 12:51 AM, Tim May (tcmay(a)got.net) passed this wisdom: >At 8:28 PM -0700 9/3/97, Sean Roach wrote: >>At 03:43 AM 9/4/97 +0200, Anonymous wrote: >>... >>>>With this wonderful sucess, We can all look forward to this items being >>>>placed in our domiciles in order to further protect us from crime. >>> >>>And I'll give my kids a can of spray paint and a ladder. Maybe I'll offer >>>bonus prizes if they can figure out an inventive, undetectable way to disable >>>the fucker. >>... >>In Altus, it is illegal to sell spray paint to persons under the age of 18. >>That makes two violations of their rights that I know of. >>The curfue which was enacted a couple years ago being the first. >>All because the local politicians are fully aware that they are too young to >>vote. > >In my community, it is even illegal to buy spray paints and give them or >make them available to those under some age (18 or 21...I don't know). > >I like my solution a lot better: anyone can buy the fucking spray paint, >but taggers are shot down by those whose property they're trespassing on. > >Seems consistent with personal freedom and responsibility. I don't know if the law is still on the books, but when I was an undergrad at Univ of Penn in the 60's you could not buy a water pistol/squirtgun of any kind, because there had been some incidents where people were squirted in the face with ammonia bu a couple of miscreants, so the city council took it upon themselves to 'protect' us all! Brian B. Riley --> http://www.macconnect.com/~brianbr For PGP Keys - Send Email Subject "Get PGP Key" "The more you run over a dead cat, the flatter it gets!"

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Re: Big Brother is watching
by Brian B. Riley 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On 9/4/97 1:17 AM, Lucky Green (shamrock(a)netcom.com) passed this wisdom: >BTW, just for the record, I believe that we live in a consumer society and >the People choose the government they want. The average person doesn't care >who thinks for them as long as they don't have to think for themselves and >can pretend to themselves that it was in fact they who did the thinking. .. among other things, I teach school. Mostly one on one tutoring and occasional Calculus or Physics fill-in ... (nice when you already have a pension to be able to work leisurely and play with your computer!) I am in the process of rereading "Fahrenheit 451" - the recent printing of this in paperback features a Marquis that says somethig like "Now, more relevant than ever" - as much as I hate having someone else tell me what to think ... they certainly seem to be right. It has been over twenty years since I read it and now ... it surely seems to be right on the path mentioned above and then some ... William Lederer also had it right years ago when he penned "A Nation of Sheep" Brian B. Riley --> http://www.macconnect.com/~brianbr For PGP Keys - Send Email Subject "Get PGP Key" "...Those of you who turned your swords into plowshares will soon find yourselves under the yokes of those of us who kept our swords..." -- author unknown

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