December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Technolgies of Political Control (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi, I would like to suggest that you reconfigure your editor so it actualy puts in LF/CR's so that it doesn't show up as one long line... Any editing errors are mine. Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 17:46:02 -0800 > From: Steve Schear <schear(a)lvdi.net> > Subject: Re: Technolgies of Political Control > At 6:47 PM -0500 1/25/98, John Young wrote: > >Thanks to Axel Horns and Ulf Möller we offer an excerpt > >of the draft European Parliament report on global > >surveillance cited in news reports recently: > > > > An Appraisal of Technolgies of Political Control > >Scientific and Technological Options Assessment > > Working Document (Consultation version) > > PE 166 499 > > Luxembourg, 6 January 1998 > > The report makes mention of built-in surveillence feature in CCITT compliant ISDN products. ""What is not widely known is that built in to the international CCITT protocol is the ability to take phones 'off hook' and listen into conversations occurring near the phone, without the user being aware that it is happening." Seems like an awful lot of CP using ISDN gear should beware. Many ISDN devices are firmware based. Might this not spawn a number of good crack projects to remove this feature from popular products. I use an Ascend P25. The docs say its CCITT compliant. Sooo does it enable this form of surveillence? Enquiring minds want to know. > All phones can be forced to do this. Even POTS. It's a commenly known 'feature' by most folks in the telecom industry for the last 30+ years. Commen defeat is to leave the phones unplugged or place them next to a radio or television. Then if you want to have a secure conversation go to another room, or better yet take a long walk in your neighborhood at low-traffic times.

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Welcome to our WebBoard!
by webboard＠netstrike.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Thank you for participating in our conferencing system, Random Q.. Please save this message. It contains important information, such as your login name and password (see below). Our web conferencing offers online Help for all major features. If you have questions about a feature, look for the help button on the menubar or post a message asking for help (Click "Post" on the menubar). You may also want to try features such as email notification, spell checking, file attachments, and more. Here is your login information. Be sure to keep it somewhere safe! Your Login Name: cypherpunks Your Password: cypherpunks You can change your password, email address, and other items by clicking the "Profile" button on the menubar. Please be sure to come back and visit us at: http://max.netstrike.com:8080/~1 We hope you enjoy participating in our conferences! Sincerely, WebBoard Administrator

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No Subject
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timothy May prefers to have sex with little kids because his own penis is like that of a three-year-old. /\**/\ ( o_o )_) Timothy May ,(u u ,), {}{}{}{}{}{}

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Welcome to RebaNet
by Registration＠Reba.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hello, and welcome to RebaNet! I hope you enjoy what we have put together for you on my web site. We've tried to make it fun and entertaining, as well as informative. RebaNet is filled with extras such as: chat, message boards, Reba Review, and you'll even have to opportunity to send me questions through Ask Reba. Isn't modern technology just amazing? I still find it hard to believe that I can write you a letter, hit send, and you have it waiting in your e-mail box just minutes later! From time to time, I will send you email messages. This is a great way for me to keep in touch and let you know what's going on with me. Love, Reba

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Re: Burning papers (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 04:00:08 +0100 (MET) > Subject: Re: Burning papers > From: nobody(a)REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) > I've heard that you can look at it under a microscope with a polarizing > filter and see the magnetic patterns. Go down to your local security or electronics supply (not Rat Shack) and you should be able to buy a polarized loupe and see it directly. > Plastic should burn fine, as most is polyethylene (CH2) which produces > water and carbon dioxide when burned, leaving virtually no residue. The > only plastic that you'd need to worry about is chlorinated stuff like PVC. If it has any N in it then don't burn it in a closed space otherwise you will get various xCN compounds. These are very toxic, KCN is Potassium Cyanide. In general you don't want to burn most plastics in closed spaces or be downwind because they do give off various toxic chemicals. You can check with your local fire dept. and they can provide references on the plastics used in television cases, 3.5 floppy covers (v the disk itself), video tape, etc. and the sorts of gases they give off. When my house burned 3 years ago both my cats were killed because of smoke inhalation (approx. 9 computers and bunches of other plastics went up). It was not a pretty sight. Congealed blood from lung eruptions on their lips, very blue tinge to the skin, etc. Not a pretty sight. If you're smart avoid burning plastics except under very controlled circumstances. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Re: Announcement: RPK InvisiMail released on 12 Jan, 1998
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I was amused to receive two mail messages back-to-back, one from Peter Gutmann talking about New Zealand having one of the strictest formal export controls in the world, and one from RPK New Zealand talking about how their encryption product is not export-controlled because it's from NZ, not the US, and how their RPK Fast Public Key Encryptonite(tm) Engine is the strongest crypto in the world. Either they haven't bothered asking for export permission, or they asked in such a way that the export bureaucrats didn't notice it was crypto and regulated by their crypto export preventers, or their crypto somehow falls through the cracks, e.g. by using an algorithm with public keys shorter than 512 bits (works for ECC, not RSA) and private keys shorter than 40 bits (or 41 on a good day), or perhaps passes the "snake oil test" for export permission. I suppose it's possible that the NZ Export Bureaucrats have lightened up since Peter's last dealings with them, but it's not likely. >--------------- The mail, referencing www.invisimail.com >RPK New Zealand Ltd. in a joint venture with Virtually Online Ltd. >has released RPK InvisiMail, a standards-based e-mail security >application for use with Internet mail software (SMTP/POP3). >The product offers the strongest encryption available anywhere in >the world. Since it was built outside the United States, >it is also available all over the world with strong encryption. >RPK InvisiMail is also the easiest product of its type >to setup and use which makes it quite unique. ========= From Peter Gutmann's web page This policy has resulted in New Zealand enjoying the dubious distinction of having the strictest export controls on earth, with everything ranging from crypto hardware down to software, library books, computer magazines, and journals being restricted from export. It's not even possible for a university to publish academic research without prior permission from a government agency, and the requirements for obtaining this permission are structured to ensure that they can never be fulfilled. You can find the information on: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/policy/ ============================== Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart(a)pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639

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Re: Announcement: RPK InvisiMail released on 12 Jan, 1998
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Bill Stewart compared the PR of RPK New Zealand's crypto to Peter Gutmann's claims for NZ export controls. This contrast confirms the report a few days back that any commercial crypto product that receives export approval from any country is probably compromised notwithstanding the manufacturer's claims otherwise. Not that it's news here, but this appears to be the unpublished requirement for granting of approvals, case by case. Either cooperate or face indefinite delays. As Peter noted some time ago, this is what he was running into when he could not get a clear answer about NZ regulations, and parallels reports of similar experiences in the US, UK and other countries. There is a similar current thread on UK Crypto about the difficulty of getting a straight answer about crypto policy from HMG while observing the success of cooperating crypto manufacturers. It will be interesting to see how hard Congress pushes in the new session to expose what the Administration is up to behind BXA's closed doors in contrast to open accounts. And, what will be revealed (and concealed) bit by bit from the horse-trading of the Bernstein, Karn and Junger cases.

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List of reliable remailers
by Raph Levien 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I operate a remailer pinging service which collects detailed information about remailer features and reliability. To use it, just finger remailer-list(a)kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu There is also a Web version of the same information, plus lots of interesting links to remailer-related resources, at: http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~raph/remailer-list.html This information is used by premail, a remailer chaining and PGP encrypting client for outgoing mail. For more information, see: http://www.c2.org/~raph/premail.html For the PGP public keys of the remailers, finger pgpkeys(a)kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu This is the current info: REMAILER LIST This is an automatically generated listing of remailers. The first part of the listing shows the remailers along with configuration options and special features for each of the remailers. The second part shows the 12-day history, and average latency and uptime for each remailer. You can also get this list by fingering remailer-list(a)kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu. $remailer{'cyber'} = '<alias(a)alias.cyberpass.net> alpha pgp'; $remailer{"mix"} = "<mixmaster(a)remail.obscura.com> cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ek ksub reord ?"; $remailer{"replay"} = "<remailer(a)replay.com> cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut post ek"; $remailer{"jam"} = "<remailer(a)cypherpunks.ca> cpunk mix pgp hash middle latent cut ek"; $remailer{"winsock"} = "<winsock(a)rigel.cyberpass.net> cpunk pgp pgponly hash cut ksub reord ?"; $remailer{'nym'} = '<config(a)nym.alias.net> newnym pgp'; $remailer{"squirrel"} = "<mix(a)squirrel.owl.de> cpunk mix pgp pgponly hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{'weasel'} = '<config(a)weasel.owl.de> newnym pgp'; $remailer{"reno"} = "<middleman(a)cyberpass.net> cpunk mix pgp hash middle latent cut ek reord ?"; $remailer{"cracker"} = "<remailer(a)anon.efga.org> cpunk mix remix pgp hash ksub esub latent cut ek reord post"; $remailer{'redneck'} = '<config(a)anon.efga.org> newnym pgp'; $remailer{"bureau42"} = "<remailer(a)bureau42.ml.org> cpunk mix pgp ksub hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"neva"} = "<remailer(a)neva.org> cpunk pgp pgponly hash cut ksub ?"; $remailer{"lcs"} = "<mix(a)anon.lcs.mit.edu> mix"; $remailer{"medusa"} = "<medusa(a)weasel.owl.de> mix middle" $remailer{"McCain"} = "<mccain(a)notatla.demon.co.uk> mix middle"; $remailer{"valdeez"} = "<valdeez(a)juno.com> cpunk pgp pgponly hash ek"; $remailer{"arrid"} = "<arrid(a)juno.com> cpunk pgp pgponly hash ek"; $remailer{"hera"} = "<goddesshera(a)juno.com> cpunk pgp pgponly hash ek"; $remailer{"htuttle"} = "<h_tuttle(a)rigel.cyberpass.net> cpunk pgp hash latent cut post ek"; catalyst(a)netcom.com is _not_ a remailer. lmccarth(a)ducie.cs.umass.edu is _not_ a remailer. usura(a)replay.com is _not_ a remailer. remailer(a)crynwr.com is _not_ a remailer. There is no remailer at relay.com. Groups of remailers sharing a machine or operator: (cyber mix reno winsock) (weasel squirrel medusa) (cracker redneck) (nym lcs) (valdeez arrid hera) This remailer list is somewhat phooey. Go check out http://www.publius.net/rlist.html for a good one. Last update: Thu 23 Oct 97 15:48:06 PDT remailer email address history latency uptime ----------------------------------------------------------------------- hera goddesshera(a)juno.com ------------ 5:03:45 99.86% nym config(a)nym.alias.net +*#**#**### :34 95.82% redneck config(a)anon.efga.org #*##*+#**** 2:00 95.44% mix mixmaster(a)remail.obscura.com +++ ++++++* 19:18 95.27% squirrel mix(a)squirrel.owl.de -- ---+--- 2:34:19 95.16% cyber alias(a)alias.cyberpass.net *++***+ ++ 11:26 95.11% replay remailer(a)replay.com **** *** 10:06 94.93% arrid arrid(a)juno.com ----.------ 8:50:34 94.41% bureau42 remailer(a)bureau42.ml.org --------- 3:38:29 93.53% cracker remailer(a)anon.efga.org + +*+*+*+ 16:32 92.80% jam remailer(a)cypherpunks.ca + +*-++++ 24:14 92.79% winsock winsock(a)rigel.cyberpass.net -..-..---- 9:59:18 92.22% neva remailer(a)neva.org ------****+ 1:03:02 90.39% valdeez valdeez(a)juno.com 4:58:22 -36.97% reno middleman(a)cyberpass.net 1:01:28 -2.65% History key * # response in less than 5 minutes. * * response in less than 1 hour. * + response in less than 4 hours. * - response in less than 24 hours. * . response in more than 1 day. * _ response came back too late (more than 2 days). cpunk A major class of remailers. Supports Request-Remailing-To: field. eric A variant of the cpunk style. Uses Anon-Send-To: instead. penet The third class of remailers (at least for right now). Uses X-Anon-To: in the header. pgp Remailer supports encryption with PGP. A period after the keyword means that the short name, rather than the full email address, should be used as the encryption key ID. hash Supports ## pasting, so anything can be put into the headers of outgoing messages. ksub Remailer always kills subject header, even in non-pgp mode. nsub Remailer always preserves subject header, even in pgp mode. latent Supports Matt Ghio's Latent-Time: option. cut Supports Matt Ghio's Cutmarks: option. post Post to Usenet using Post-To: or Anon-Post-To: header. ek Encrypt responses in reply blocks using Encrypt-Key: header. special Accepts only pgp encrypted messages. mix Can accept messages in Mixmaster format. reord Attempts to foil traffic analysis by reordering messages. Note: I'm relying on the word of the remailer operator here, and haven't verified the reord info myself. mon Remailer has been known to monitor contents of private email. filter Remailer has been known to filter messages based on content. If not listed in conjunction with mon, then only messages destined for public forums are subject to filtering. Raph Levien

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Re: Technologies of Political Control
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

A bit more on getting a copy of the report: An Appraisal of Technologies of Political Control It is Scientific and Technological Options Assessment (STOA) of the European Parliament offering the report, not British MEP Glyn Ford, who was its sponsor. For a copy to be sent by snail, fax a request to STOA in Luxembourg: 352-4300-22418 No electronic version is available from STOA. Draft reports remain in paper format until finalized by the European Parliament, which may take a while. STOA's publications web site was last updated in July 1996, and its rep apologized for the trailing-edge tech. http://www.europarl.eu.int/dg4/stoa/en/publi/publi.htm

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cookies and spam
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> 5. .reba.com (country music) cypherpunks cypherpunks > wafer RebaNet%5FPWD=cypherpunks > wafer RebaNet%5FUID=cypherpunks Yes, and thank you for signing up the list for their spam. cypherpunks/cypherpunks also works for dejanews, but at least I had the sense to send the replies to alt.anonymous.messages.

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CyberSitter to the rescue.
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:19:45 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: qnx.com: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: 0xdeadbeef(a)substance.abuse.blackdown.org Cc: bostic(a)bsdi.com Subject: CyberSitter to the rescue. Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:08:19 -0500 From: glen mccready <glen(a)qnx.com> Resent-From: 0xdeadbeef(a)substance.abuse.blackdown.org X-Mailing-List: <0xdeadbeef(a)substance.abuse.blackdown.org> archive/latest/2639 X-Loop: 0xdeadbeef(a)substance.abuse.blackdown.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: 0xdeadbeef-request(a)substance.abuse.blackdown.org Status: U Forwarded-by: Faried Nawaz <fn(a)LISP-READER.Hungry.COM> Forwarded-by: acb(a)zikzak.net (Andrew C. Bulhak) Forwarded-by: Matt Curtis <mattc(a)beam.com.au> This is from the PerForce mailing list, PerForce is a source code control system that doesn't use mounted drives, but instead uses TCP/IP socket communications to check code in and out. ----- Well, I just spent several hours tracking something down that I think is SO braindead that it must be called evil. I hope this will save someone else some hassle. There's an NT box on my desk that someone else uses every now and then. This machine is otherwise used as my programming box and backup server. All of a sudden, my programming files were being corrupted in odd places. I thought "hmm, my copy must be corrupt". So I refreshed the files. No change. "hmm, the code depot copy must be corrupt".. Checked from other machines. No problem there. Viewed the file from a web based change browser in Internet Explorer. Same corruption in the file. Telnet'd to the server machine and just cat'd the file to the terminal. Same problem. What's going on? The lines that were corrupted were of the form #define one 1 /* foo menu */ #define two 2 /* bar baz */ What I always saw ON THIS MACHINE ONLY was: #define one 1 /* foo */ # fine two 2 /* bar baz */ Can you guess what was happening? Turns out, someone had inadvertly installed this piece of garbage called CyberSitter, which purports to protect you from nasty internet content. Turns out that it does this by patching the TCP drivers and watching the data flow over EVERY TCP STREAM. Can you spot the offense word in my example? It's "NUDE". Seems that cybersitter doesn't care if there are other characters in between. So it blanks out "nu */ #de" without blanking out the punctuation and line breaks. Very strange and stupid. It also didn't like the method name "RefreshItems" in another file, since there is obviously a swear word embedded in there. Sheesh. It's so bad it's almost funny. Hope this brightens your day as much as it brighted mine :-). ---- +----------------------+---+ | Ross Johnson | | E-Mail: rpj(a)ise.canberra.edu.au | Info Sciences and Eng|___| | University of Canberra | FAX: +61 6 2015227 | PO Box 1 | | Belconnen ACT 2616 | WWW: http://willow.canberra.edu.au/~rpj/ | AUSTRALIA | +--------------------------+ --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: <http://www.fc98.ai/>

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Spies Like Us.
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:33:35 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: qnx.com: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: 0xdeadbeef(a)substance.abuse.blackdown.org Subject: Spies Like Us. Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 11:21:56 -0500 From: glen mccready <glen(a)qnx.com> Resent-From: 0xdeadbeef(a)substance.abuse.blackdown.org X-Mailing-List: <0xdeadbeef(a)substance.abuse.blackdown.org> archive/latest/2642 X-Loop: 0xdeadbeef(a)substance.abuse.blackdown.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: 0xdeadbeef-request(a)substance.abuse.blackdown.org Forwarded-by: Nev Dull <nev(a)bostic.com> Forwarded-by: chuck <Chuck(a)Yerkes.com> Forwarded-by: David HM Spector <spector(a)zeitgeist.com> Forwarded-by: Declan McCullagh <declan(a)well.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:42:26 -0800 (PST) From: Dan Tsang <dtsang(a)sun1.lib.uci.edu> To: Declan McCullagh <declan(a)well.com> Subject: CIA changes Web FAQ: concedes spying on Americans Last month, the CIA had to change its Web FAQ page because of my case, Tsang v. CIA, which was settled when the CIA promised not to spy on me again. But it refused to make the same promise to cover other Americans. The original FAQ page had said "No" to a question whether or not it spies on Americans. Now it concedes it spies on Americans. The new CIA FAQ is at: http://www.odci.gov/cia/public_affairs/faq.html See my account in Sunday's (Jan. 18) Los Angeles Times Opinion page: A CIA Target at Home in America. It can be found at: http://www.latimes.com/sbin/my_iarecord.pl?NS-doc-path=/httpd/docs/HOME/NEW… OPINION/t000005584.html&NS-doc-offset=1&NS-collection=DailyNews&NS-search-set=/ var/tmp/34c3e/aaaa001wBc3eacf& Daniel C. Tsang Bibliographer for Asian American Studies & Social Sciences (Economics, Politics) Machine-Readable Data Files Librarian Lecturer, School of Social Sciences 380 Main Library University of California PO Box 19557 Irvine CA 92623-9557 USA dtsang(a)uci.edu (714) 824-4978 (714) 824-5740 fax homepage: http://sun3.lib.uci.edu/~dtsang add suffix for news: /netnews1.htm politics: /pol.htm economics: /econ.htm asian american studies: /aas.htm soc sci data archives: /ssda.htm public opinion: /pod.htm AWARE: awarefs/htm host, "Subversity" on KUCI, 88.9 FM in Orange County each Tuesday from 5-6 p.m.; selected shows w/ audio online: http://www.kuci.uci.edu/~dtsang/subversity N.B.: This is NOT official University of California correspondence. --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: <http://www.fc98.ai/>

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Video & cryptography...
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi, I was in a discussion with several people regarding the rate if improvement of current video production equipment and how it would effect the veracity of video images of all sorts in future legal cases. Is anyone aware of anybody working on a mechanism to digitaly sign video and photographs (a cool app of stego I suspect)? This would alleviate a great deal of mistrust for security video cams and such. What I had in mind was the manufacturer puts a unique key in each machines rom's and when each image comes in a signature of the image and the key is stored in the interframe retraces that are normaly not shown (ala videotext). I asked a couple of people in the biz that I know and it seemed a new concept to them. Just a thought... ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Cylink and Organized Crime?
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Mr. Gene Carozza Security Public Relations Cylink Corporation Dear Mr. Carozza, We have received two recent e-mail messages concerning Cylink's alleged links to organized crime. The messages may be seen on the Web at: http://jya.com/cylinked.htm This is a serious charge. Could you provide information to answer it? Sincerely, John Young

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Re: Cylink and Organized Crime?
by Gene Carozza 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dear John, Thanks for your inquiry. These "serious charges" are completely inaccurate. Regards, Gene C. At 12:42 PM 1/26/98 -0500, John Young wrote: >Mr. Gene Carozza >Security Public Relations >Cylink Corporation > >Dear Mr. Carozza, > >We have received two recent e-mail messages concerning >Cylink's alleged links to organized crime. The messages >may be seen on the Web at: > > http://jya.com/cylinked.htm > >This is a serious charge. Could you provide information to >answer it? > >Sincerely, > >John Young > > > Gene Carozza Phone: 408-328-5175 Sr. Public Relations Manager Fax: 408-774-2522 Cylink Corp. Pager: 1-800-716-6434 910 Hermosa Ct. Cell: 408-529-8402 Sunnyvale, CA 94086 email: carozza(a)cylink.com www.cylink.com

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Burning Papers - Plastics - Cyanides - Reference
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi, It took a few minutes to find one, but below is just one of the many standards that are implimented for plastic uses in the home that make reference to minimal levels of HCN in particular. Despite what some folks would like you to believe, plastics in conflagration are *NOT* safe to inhale even in small quantitites because of these gases. Note that I edited a bunch of lines out for brevity. Forwarded message: > X-within-URL: http://www.cern.ch/CERN/Divisions/TIS/safdoc/IS/is41/table1.html > > IS 41 : TABLE 1 > > Test Standards and Specifications > for the Selection of Plastics > > TEST > Standards (1) > Requirements > _________________________________________________________________ > [text deleted] > > Duration of flame application 60 s unless > otherwise stated according to Clause 5. > Time to extinction: 30 s * > Damaged length (mm) must be measured* > > FV0 or FV1 > 94 V0, 94V1 > > FT >260!C. Length burnt > _________________________________________________________________ > [text deleted] > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Toxicity > Toxicity of fire gases > > ABD 0031 > > HF HC1 HCN SO2 + H2S CO NO + NO2 > _________________________________________________________________ > [remainder deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Latest Clinton dodge?
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Clinton said this morning: >>>> I want you to listen to me. I'm going to say this again. I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky. I never told anybody to lie, not a single time -- never. These allegations are false. <<<< The question then becomes, of course, what does "sexual relations" mean? Is it oral sex? -Declan

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Re: Burning papers (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 19:05:54 +0100 (MET) > Subject: Re: Burning papers (fwd) > From: nobody(a)REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) > As usual Jim, your posting is prolific but your science is lacking. Ad hominims, opinions, and no proof... > bind to whatever it comes in contact with (usually oxygen). The only way > cyanide could escape in gaseous form is as HCN, however this cannot happen > because the hydrogen has a lower activation energy for combining with > oxygen, and thus the reaction is starved of free hydrogen by the time the > carbon begins to burn. Various other nitrogen compounds are produced, > such as NOx, but this is true of all combustion and not limited to plastic. I have forwarded to the list a single safety standard for plastics and fires. It *specificaly* mentions HCN, so apparently it not only can happen but does often enough they want to test for it on a national level. There are many more out there and as I said before, if you contact your local fire dept. they can provide you with documentation as well. > A more likely (and deadly) result, which you did not mention, is sulfur > dioxide. Most plastics don't contain sulfur, but rubber products may. Sulfur dioxide is present and does pose a threat, fortunately it's a rather short termed threat and treatable. Sulfur dioxide turns into sulphuric acid in the water of the body. Not to mention it burns up the oxygen in formation. The biggest threat with the acids that are produced in a fire is to your possessions. They soak this stuff up and then when the firemen put the fire out they use water which creates acids. These acids effect the components of your possessions over an extended time. > Sulfur dioxide combines with water to produce H2SO3 and H2SO4 (sulfuric > acid) which is quite toxic if inhaled. Depends on the molarity. It is nowhere near as toxic as cyanide on a per part basis. > Most smoke inhalation deaths result for particles clogging the lungs rather > than gases. Cats have a tendency to hide when they feel threatened or > injured, an instinct which often imperils them in a burning building. Actualy most smoke inhalation deaths occur because of lack of oxygen and the elevated temperatures. The actual clogging process would take much longer than the 2-3 minutes most smoke deaths take to occur. As to cats hiding, they tend to hind *under* furniture which is actualy the *safest* place to be, the clearest air is next to the floor. It was also where my cats were found, in the living room under the couch where the smoke very clearly never got below about shoulder height - it stains the walls quite well. The fire didn't even make it into that part of the house, it stopped in the next room. The fire itself burned for less than 20 minutes total because the neighbor saw it about 5 minutes after the person who accidently set it off had left. The fire station was on the next block. It was very quick. The firemen were very careful to explain to me exactly why the cats died, gases from the plastics (HCN was specificaly mentioned) and the temperature of the air (they estimate over 350F). While not enough to cause spontaneous combustion it is more than enough to cook the lungs. The air was hot enough that several plastic bags holding wargame materials within 1 ft of the floor were melted but the paper materials were not even scorched. This would further indicate that the damage was done by the temperature of the gas and not direct flame or smoke. > Also remember that computers have materials in them other than plastic, for > example lead and other heavy metals. Batteries and electrolytic capacitors > are also sources of many toxic materials. The leads on most components are an aluminum compound (my background is EE) and they typicaly don't start to burn until well over 800F, aluminum itself burns at 600. Since typical tip temperatures in soldering (lead eutecticts only - not indium composites) are in the 600 to 700 it is clear that pure aluminum would not be desirable. So they mix tin and other compounds with it. As to electrolytics, the liquid plastics that make up the dielectrics are very toxic and most certainly give off xCN compounds when burned. Just for the record, Lead (the element) is not generaly used in modern electronics except in a eutectic solder mix for connections. I have several computers that were burned in the fire and the majority of the solder on the pcb's was *not* evaporated. In most cases it wasn't even melted even though the case was completely gone (2 A1000's that work fine though the cases were completely destroyed by the temperature of the air, not fire). > In short, it's not the plastic that's toxic, it's all the other crap (ink, > dye, glue, solder, batteries, dielectric, etc) Malarky. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Re: Video & cryptography... (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > From: Adam Shostack <adam(a)homeport.org> > Subject: Re: Video & cryptography... > Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 13:56:57 -0500 (EST) > Schneier, Wagner and Kelsey have done some work on an authenticating > camera. > > One issue to be concerned with is that what the camera sees is not > always the truth. Putting a film set together to film bigfoot is > easy. The fact that the film is authenticated as having come from the > camera doesn't mean a whole lot in some cases. Doesn't this same sort of issue arise from any other digital signature process then? There should be nothing fundamentaly different between the characteristics of a video camera signing a frame than a person signing email. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Re: Latest Clinton dodge?
by miner 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 12:55 PM 1/26/98 -0500, Declan McCullagh wrote: > >Clinton said this morning: > >>>>> > I want you to listen to me. I'm >going to say this again. I did not have sexual relations with that >woman, Miss Lewinsky. I never told anybody to lie, not a single time >-- never. These allegations are false. Doesn't gennifer flowers has(had?) an audio tape of clinton asking her to deny their affair, there is no proof, etc.? I think a sequence of that audio and then the above statement played maybe 10 times on CNN would make a nice piece of news. ><<<< > >The question then becomes, of course, what does "sexual relations" mean? > >Is it oral sex? > >-Declan > > >

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RE: Update on New Zealand crypto policy
by Ernest Hua 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Need help: Can anyone get to this URL? Ern -----Original Message----- From: pgut001(a)cs.auckland.ac.nz [SMTP:pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz] Sent: Saturday, January 24, 1998 4:20 PM To: cryptography(a)c2.net Cc: cypherpunks(a)cyberpass.net Subject: Update on New Zealand crypto policy As part of my recent effort to prepare a useful home page after 2 years of having instead a mini text adventure, I've finally got around to finishing off the web page containing the recent history of, and current state of, New Zealands crypto export policy as decided by several intelligence agencies and a supporting cast of bungling bureaucrats. This policy has resulted in New Zealand enjoying the dubious distinction of having the strictest export controls on earth, with everything ranging from crypto hardware down to software, library books, computer magazines, and journals being restricted from export. It's not even possible for a university to publish academic research without prior permission from a government agency, and the requirements for obtaining this permission are structured to ensure that they can never be fulfilled. You can find the information on: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/policy/ The page also contains links to a sizeable collection of never-before- published documents including correspondence with relevant government agencies, and media reports on the situation. If you're going to send me mail about this, please note that I'll be at Usenix in San Antonio for the next week, so it'll take awhile for me to reply. My PGP key's at the bottom of my home page if you need it. Peter.

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Compaq / DEC buyout
by David Miller 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Jim, I'm forwarding this to the list: Jim Choate wrote: > >From the news on CNN it's a done deal. DEC share holders are supposed to get > like $30/share and some sort of transfer of stocks... Oh, shit. Well, it seems as though Compaq has been pulling away from Intel lately (towards AMD), so perhaps this will be a GoodThing(tm), because otherwise DEC might turn out to be like Apple, except to die a much, much slower death. > Wonder if this means that Compaq will go head to head with MS/Intel now? I think so. Tim had mentioned that last he heard the Intel/DEC deal was dead. Perhaps this is what he was talking about. The thing is, how much about the Alpha does Intel know, and does this mean yet another round of lawsuits? I'm afraid that Intel may know enough now to make a 1GHz pentium, which would probably a ModeratelyBadThing(tm). I'd much prefer DEC to save mankind and lead them into the next millenium. > They will certainly have the experience and the market name to attempt it. > Last time I checked the Alpha was still a good deal faster than the Pentium. Yep, but for how much longer? Some elephants never die, and right now it looks like Intel can once again save MicroSoft's OS by hardware (ironically via DEC). NT bloats as the hardware gets faster. > Now since Compaq can use vertical marketing in regards to Alpha chips they > should be able to produce much more competitive machines price wise than DEC > was able to do. > > I have a fond place for DEC, a PDP/8e was the first machine I ever actualy > got to put my hands on. I miss the front panel switches sometimes (not often > though)... I'll aways have a fondness in my heart for installing RSTS from a TU-10 tapedrive and having to wait almost an hour for it to fall off the spindle before having to start all over... --David Miller middle rival devil rim lad

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Compaq / DEC buyout (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 15:46:58 -0800 > From: David Miller <dm0(a)avana.net> > Subject: Compaq / DEC buyout > Oh, shit. Well, it seems as though Compaq has been pulling away from Intel > lately (towards AMD), so perhaps this will be a GoodThing(tm), because > otherwise DEC might turn out to be like Apple, except to die a much, much > slower death. Had DEC not been bought this is exactly (IMO) what would have happened. > I'm afraid that Intel may know enough now to make a 1GHz pentium, which would > probably a ModeratelyBadThing(tm). I'd much prefer DEC to save mankind and > lead them into the next millenium. Unless my info is seriously off DEC is already shipping 500MHz Alpha's and has 1GHz chips in test. DEC historicaly has been way ahead of Intel (say a year or so which in this business is a lot) and I don't see any reason to suspect that to stop. A comparison of base technology between Intel and DEC leads me to believe DEC is ahead a good margin. Intel won because of the price (DEC has historicaly been very expensive) and support of MS and IBM. (remember, nobody ever lost their job for buying IBM) > Yep, but for how much longer? Some elephants never die, and right now it > looks like Intel can once again save MicroSoft's OS by hardware (ironically > via DEC). NT bloats as the hardware gets faster. The only question I have is whether MS will continue to produce a HAL for WinNT 5.0 or whatever they call it. That could put a serious crimp in Compaq/DEC and would most definitely spawn a new round of lawsuites. Had you realized that when we break the 1GHz barrier it won't be safe to operate these machines without the cover on them? It'd be like breaking the inter-lock on your microwave. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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HCN & Plastics
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi, Per [1], "There are many compounds in which carbon is bonded to Nitrogen. Hydrogen Cyanide, HCN, is commercialy prepared by the ... The compound is highly poisonous, low boiling liquid (boiling point, 26.5C) an dis used in the manufacture of plastics." ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| [1] Chemistry, 6ed. Mortimer ISBN 0-534-05670-9 pp. 670

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Paper withdraws story of Clinton sex 'witness' [fwd - infobeat]
by Vipul Ved Prakash 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

*** Paper withdraws story of Clinton sex 'witness' The Dallas Morning News withdrew its Internet report Tuesday that a Secret Service agent was ready to testify seeing President Clinton and Monica Lewinsky in a compromising situation. The Dallas paper took the report off its online edition and posted a statement saying its source for the story had told them his information was wrong. The paper had carried a front page report on its electronic Web site saying the agent had spoken with independent counsel Kenneth Starr's staff and was ready to testify as a government witness in the sex scandal engulfing the White House. But within 4 hours the paper had pulled the report and replaced it with a statement which said "the source for the story, a longtime Washington lawyer familiar with the case, later said the information provided for that report was inaccurate. See http://www.infobeat.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=7164923-842 Maryland officials say Tripp may have broken law, See http://www.infobeat.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=7159919-bc9 -- #!/usr/bin/perl eval unpack u,'J)",](DIU<W0@06YO=&AE<B!097)L($AA8VME<EQN(CMP<FEN="!T:6UE'; ========================================================================== Vipul Ved Prakash | - Electronic Security & Crypto mail(a)vipul.net | - Web Objects 91 11 2233328 | - PERL Development 198 Madhuban IP Extension | - Linux & Open Systems Delhi, INDIA 110 092 | - Networked Virtual Spaces

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