December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Happy New year, Don't Miss Out!
by MAILER-DAEMON＠toad.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Re: cryptix java AES effort
by Ian Grigg 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Adam kindly forwarded the AES quest blurbs to interested and/or interesting groups. Some slight clarification is required in the detail of who and what. Adam said: > Systemics provides a BSD licensed (free for commercial and > non-commercial use) java crypto library called cryptix. A slight modification: Systemics provided, in the past tense. It was always the belief of those at Systemics at the time that selling crypto was extremely hard without contacts into big companies (in which case, you weren't selling crypto...). When Cryptix stabilised it was published as freeware with a BSD-style of license, with the hope that other people would pick it up and start to work with it. With the Java library this has happened. There is now a team of between 4 and 10 people, depending on how you count them, scattered across the globe, improving the core Cryptix code. Over the last year or so, we codified the notion of the independant group working around the library as the Cryptix Development Team. That is now spreading through the doco. ( There are a few issues such as copyright and the brand name, which are beyond the scope of this email. Whilst Systemics is not entirely passive in this area, it does not sell Cryptix code, although it might, and does, sell services such as improving Cryptix code. Also, those who work/have worked at Systemics are also part of the team. ) The AES quest is a Cryptix operation. I.e., Cryptix Development Team, and not Systemics. It is a completely unfunded (although sponsorship would be appreciated) and volunteer effort. Whilst the NIST people earn a salary, and most of the cryptographers are employed in this capacity as well, there is no especial interest in employing programmers here, as any rational company will simply wait until the winner is announced, sometime in the next millenium, and then employ an expert at $300 per hour to tell them all about it. Rationally or otherwise, we still need programmers to code up the algorithms and prepare them for submission to NIST. For many cryptographers, it is beyond their efficient capabilities to know much about the downstream discipline, so it makes sense for them to outsource the work to a team like Cryptix, especially as NIST has loaded up the submission requirements with 3 separate implementations. If you're thinking now's the time to branch into Java crypto, read the blurb and mail us. The rational part is that if you start now, you might be earning fat fees in a few years time. > http://www.cs.ucl.ac.uk/staff/I.Brown/cryptix/aes/AES_crypt.html > http://www.cs.ucl.ac.uk/staff/I.Brown/cryptix/aes/AES_prog.html -- iang systemics.com FP: 1189 4417 F202 5DBD 5DF3 4FCD 3685 FDDE on pgp.com

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attila & maureen on Bubba
by Attila T. Hun 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html><head> <title> Attila & Maureen on Clinton </title> <META name="Author" content="Attila T. Hun & Maureed Dowd"> <META name="Generator" CONTENT="by Attila's hand"> <META name="KeyWords" CONTENT="Clinton,Maureen,Dowd,oral,sex,scandal"> <META Name="Description" CONTENT="Comment on Maureen's comments on Clinton Oval Office Sex Scandal"> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Reply-to" CONTENT="attila(a)hun.org"> <META http-equiv="PICS-Label" content='(PICS-1.1 "http://www.classify.org/safesurf/" l by "attila(a)hun.org" r (SS~~000 3))'> </head> <body border=0 bgcolor="f0f0e0" text="black" link="blue" vlink="purple" alink="purple"> <a name="top"></a> <center> <table width=800 align=center valign=top cols=5> <tr height=5> <td bgcolor="f0f0e0" align=center valign=middle width=10>   </td> <td bgcolor="f0f0a0" align=center valign=middle width=5>   </td> <td align=left valign=middle>   </td> <td bgcolor="f0f0a0" align=center valign=middle width=5>   </td> <td bgcolor="f0f0e0" align=center valign=middle width=10>   </td> </tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="f0f0e0" align=center valign=middle width=10>   </td> <td bgcolor="f0f0a0" align=center valign=middle width=5>   </td> <td align=left valign=top> <center> Clinton's Achilles' Heel </center> <blockquote> well, this may finally do it for Clinton. if he was not so stupid, he would pack out of white house in the middle of the night, pick up his ill-gotten gains from Switzerland, or wherever he has them stashed, and disappear into the night --but, no, he might be forced to settle for Hillary-- which would be revenge served up cold --they deserve each other. if the Asian crisis was not in full rage, and the US market shaky with worry, we could afford to dump Clinton in the dumpster --unfortunately, the spectacle of an American President actually being successfully impeached will probably blow the American and European markets right out of the water --and the American economy with it --that just might be Clinton's lasting legacy. he may deserve that footnote in history, but the rest of us certainly do not. the NWO powers behind our "throne" may have needed a patsy after their main man became unelectable, but they certainly could have done better than bubba. you'd think they, or even the Democratic power bosses who were against him in the primaries would have done more evaluation of his bimbo patrol mentality before they committed. even I was a little skeptical of the "allegations" in the book "Primary Colors" (particularly to the Hillary affair) and I have been more than a little skeptical of the revelations of the "slave" courier/purveyors who have surfaced, but there may be more fire than smoke. it was certainly understandable why Joe Kline wrote the book as "Anonymous" --he must have been a cypherpunk-- or at least he should also have been using our anonymous remailers and nontracable digital cash. God save us from Al Bore. he needed to have a Spiro Agnew in his future, but Janet Reno saved his skin. he is a decent sort, but I just can not handle the left-leaning socialist son-of-a-bitch with his sanctimonious looks --he needs a circuit riding preacher's floppy hat and a mule-- even if he did go to Harvard. on the other hand, if Al Bore goes down, and they can not agree on a vice-president before Clinton either bales or is smoked out, we would have Newt --that might have been acceptable, except I think Newt either sold out or has been intimidated.    <a href="mailto:attila@hun.org"> attila out for the count.... </a></blockquote> January 25, 1998 NYTimes OpEd Columnist LIBERTIES / By MAUREEN DOWD Not Suitable for Children WASHINGTON -- There have been so many people rushing to TV studios in this giddy and cataclysmic week to talk about sex that networks are bringing makeup artists out of retirement. The palaver about whether a 21-year-old White House intern had a particular kind of sex with the President has gotten so graphic that CNN's "Inside Politics" Friday featured a warning that the segment might not be suitable for young viewers. Let's review what we've learned so far. The President a liar? Knew that. The President a philanderer? Knew that. The President reckless in the satisfaction of his appetites? Knew that. The President would say anything and hurt anybody to get out of a mess? Knew that. Married men cheat? Knew that. Married men cheat with young women? Knew that. Married men who cheat with young women lie about it? Knew that. Hillary isn't throwing Bill's stuff out on the White House lawn because she is as committed to their repugnant arrangement as he is? Knew that. The Clinton team -- those great feminists -- devising ways to discredit women who come forward with reports of Clinton peccadilloes? Knew that. The President and his minions dissembling and splitting hairs and playing semantic games and taking forever to find the documents until our attention wanders? Knew that. The President has the moxie to pick out a dress for a woman? Didn't know that. In the delirium of the scandal, something remarkable occurred. The President reportedly admitted, in a deposition to Paula Jones's lawyers, that, oh, yeah, by the way, he did have that affair with Gennifer Flowers, which he so adamantly denied during the '92 campaign. I still remember James Carville ranting at reporters for being low enough to pay any mind to her, calling it cash for trash. How can he go back on TV and defend Mr. Clinton in another sex scandal by once more trying to throw doubt on another damning tape? At least Mr. Carville looked sheepish. Mr. Clinton's famous rapid-response team seems to have bimbo-battle fatigue. The tapes of Monica Lewinsky, now 24, seem believable, not least because we heard it all before with Gennifer Flowers. Helping to get her a new job, telling her to say nothing went on if anyone asked. "Deny it," Mr. Clinton told Ms. Flowers on tape. "That's all. I mean, I expect them to come look into it and interview you and everything. But I just think if everybody's on record denying it, you've got no problem." The whole modus operandi is right there. Also, why did Vernon Jordan become a patron to a lowly Pentagon assistant if she was nothing special to the President? The reality that looms before the American people is not the impeachment of this President. It is the annulment of this President. He has finally determined his own place in history. He will be remembered as the priapic President. The Oval Office appears to be the bachelor pad of a married man who is the Commander in Chief. Like all addicts, this one is surrounded by enablers. Many Americans had accepted Mr. Clinton as a charming rogue. But the portrait that may be pieced together from the confessions of his willing and unwilling women now looks utterly uncharming. Ms. Lewinsky's nickname for him -- "the big creep" -- could stick. The Clinton doctrine may turn out to be nothing more than a view of the relationship of oral sex -- or Oval sex -- to adultery. CNN's Judy Woodruff reported that religious scholars could find no biblical basis for Mr. Clinton's purported claim to an Arkansas trooper that the Bible says oral sex is not cheating. Ted Koppel actually began "Nightline" Thursday with the following sentence: "It may . . . ultimately come down to the question of whether oral sex does or does not constitute adultery." Well, it sure isn't fidelity. When Mr. Clinton says now that he can't answer questions about sex, lies and tapes because he must hurry back to governance, people will want him to hurry back to self-governance instead. </td> <td bgcolor="f0f0a0" align=center valign=middle width=5>   </td> <td bgcolor="f0f0e0" align=center valign=middle width=10>   </td> </tr> <tr height=5> <td bgcolor="f0f0e0" align=center valign=middle width=10>   </td> <td bgcolor="f0f0a0" align=center valign=middle width=5>   </td> <td align=left valign=middle>   </td> <td bgcolor="f0f0a0" align=center valign=middle width=5>   </td> <td bgcolor="f0f0e0" align=center valign=middle width=10>   </td> </tr> </table></center></body></html>

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Re: Document destruction services (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi Igor, Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: Document destruction services > Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 11:09:36 -0600 (CST) > From: ichudov(a)Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) > This kind of paper does not burn very well. I have tried it. Burning it > in my fireplace will take forever. A drum is an option though. Is the additive to the paper alcohol soluble? If so soak it in alcohol for a few minutes, say a half hour, and then burn it. Should go quite well. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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17 Dec '03

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Re: Document destruction services (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: Document destruction services (fwd) > Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 11:40:01 -0600 (CST) > From: ichudov(a)algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home) > > > This kind of paper does not burn very well. I have tried it. Burning it > > > in my fireplace will take forever. A drum is an option though. > > > > Is the additive to the paper alcohol soluble? If so soak it in alcohol for a > > few minutes, say a half hour, and then burn it. Should go quite well. > > Jim, try it. I am sure that adding alcohol will not help much, but will > make it a fire hazard. I have Igor, works pretty well for some paper additives. If it's a plastic base then use finger nail polish remover or model cement thinner. How in the hell can you say with a straight face burning paper with alcohol is any more a fire hazard then burning paper? You don't burn the paper while it's in the alcohol bath, but remove it and then burn it. If you try to burn it in the bath what you get is just like gasoline. The fumes burn not the alcohol itself so the paper doesn't get nearly hot enough to do any good. You're making burning paper, additives or not, a lot more complicated than it is. If you're that worried about it go down to your hardware store and buy a hand-held torch. Additives or not that will burn it. Good luck. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Uncle Sam's Sticky Fingers
by Gary Harland 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

For a general run-down on just how much of your privacy the Feds have access to, take a look at the GAO's Investigator's Guide to Sources of Information (http://www.gao.gov) It's under 'Special Publications and Software'. Photocopies of any postal money orders you've bought? Your Amtrak train reservation history? Uncle Sam's got sticky fingers baby! He doesn't throw anything away. ----------------------------------------------------------------- foggy(a)netisle.net lat:47d36'32" long:122d20'12" "Rather perish than hate and fear, and twice rather perish than make oneself hated and feared." -F. Nietzche- -----------------------------------------------------------------

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Clinton needs a war with Iraq
by Tim May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

There are increasing reports, from Washington and Baghdad, that Clinton wants a nice little war action in Iraq, which would have the side effect of boosting his support...or so he hopes. If this happens, it may be time for hackers to use technical means to disrupt the war effort. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: Sucking Sound...
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

No, it's the public and press, not the President, who are into denial about the nation's urgent succor. The President's radio address today was solely on Medicare fraud and abuse. http://www.whitehouse.gov/WH/html/1998-01-24.html Lucianne Goldberg's place is down the street and mobbed around the clock with global bloodsuckers. "There is a god," she says, noting fruitless years of the right trying its best to suckerpunch the toke-sucker. Which leads one to wonder who's squeeze gave what to Freeh's on Reno's, Starr's on Freeh's, Reno's on Starr's, that led them to gang up to divert attention to Bill's. Must have been Hillary's, aiming to succotash Al's.

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Barry Smith (FBI) to speak 3:30pm Friday, March 6 at UMBC
by Dr. Alan Sherman 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The wwe page for Barry Smith's talk on encryption policy is now up: http://www.cs.umbc.edu/events then navigate to /spring98/crypto2.shtml Interested parties are encouraged to submit questions via email to sherman(a)cs.umbc.edu All questions are posted on the www page. See this page for details on a $50 www contest for the best question-gathering www engine. Contestants who are UMBC students may apply for CGI priviledges from Jack Suess (UCS), jack(a)cs.umbc.edu (For professional www programmers, this contest should be viewed as a request for volunteers to support UMBC's crypto seminar series.) Dr. Alan T. Sherman Associate Professor, Computer Science sherman(a)cs.umbc.edu

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Technology: R.I.P.
by Steve Schear 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

A great article in today's Wired News Daily, by Virginia Postrel, eloquently explains why D.C. wonks are incapable even considering of any meaningful changes to the role or size of governent. http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/9566.html --Steve

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Burning papers
by ichudov＠Algebra.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Just for your information, I _WAS_ mistaken. The papers burned really well. My confusion about burnability of papers arose because in the past I tried to burn magazines, and not papers and letters. The whole big box is gone, after two burns. Burning is unquestionably better than shredding. - Igor.

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Re: Poll shows Bill G. popular & MS monopoly supported [CNN]
by Secret Squirrel 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>Bill -- you *believed* this? :-) Why not? The morons can't even write HTML, even *with* the help of some "HTML authoring kit." If they could we wouldn't be greeted with image maps, unnamed links, unnamed inline images every 5 words, frames, broken CGI scripts... So I, at least, wouldn't find it surprising. The sheeple are blind, naked, and shit stupid.

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No Subject
by Gary Harland 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

rz **

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I just mailed you a check ...
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17 Dec '03

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Re: Why no "Banner Ad Eaters"?
by Heinz-Juergen Keller 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- "Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM" <dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com> wrote: >Junkbusters works very nicely for me. I highly recommend it. >A warning about cookies: no proxy server I know can >stop the server from trying to set the cookie by >a) putting a <META HTTP-EQUIV="Cookie:" CONTENT="foo=bar;expires..."> >in the header; [SNIP] Installed Junkbuster yesterday with a blocklist that seems to work o.k. Just a silly? question on cookies: What will happen if I just link cookies.txt to /dev/null ? Is there anything speaking against this solution? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Heinz-Juergen Keller hjk(a)[mail.]ddorf.rhein-ruhr.de hjkeller(a)gmx.[net,de] 2047bit PGP Public Key : http://www.ddorf.rhein-ruhr.de/~hjk/ MD5 Fingerprint: 4d33126fbf8c1bcd8e96ba90d99f0bdc - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNMsaoyZWWJBRAP1VAQE5Ugf7Bum+X0GRqAkGvp7Ir9MzpWI6XmlE01dc TrnG1ltkhIoU7JWTSNimsBeA0Pdw0fZZJpHhyNowCb0zR/H/J7/I/ksHUJWrr+/I eSRcO6Kwn8QlgjpDO+AfZiGtjtcm6ogPQhpLmyTFHRj6gNU+ksYTka6cC46zVfTI oWPx1vNLMZrG7OoMep61d9RQRSIIQQRzG3Ksc/5fwldmF7IWH5+9VnOncuT7ZJLm 59rvqyO4R9CaymI47jUTfpe+XNJzZR3PHix2OBiRtiXFgJsxc014Qk/lkVDiJH8T g+B5nE1N9xN7PqIAmMW7kuFaq4d4QhjMvYxGfa5ZCd8aPxhi5oLQMg== =2UCV -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Unabomber's Background
by Gregory L. Robinson 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Could someone please post Mr. Kaczynski's (sp?) education background and some bio information or point me towards a website that contains some? Greg Robinson

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Tossing your cookies [Re: Why no "Banner Ad Eaters"?]
by Jim Gillogly 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Heinz-Juergen Keller skribis: > Just a silly? question on cookies: > What will happen if I just link cookies.txt to /dev/null ? > Is there anything speaking against this solution? Works fine on Unix and Linux systems if you're not a cookie fan: the remote sites think you've eaten their cookies, but you've merely frisbeed them into the bit bin. It's better than telling Netscape you want to be asked: some sites set a dozen cookies per hit, seems like, and saying "no" to each gets immediately tedious. If you tell Netscape to reject them, some sites won't serve you the content. Setting the browser to accept everything and linking cookies.txt to /dev/null works well for me. -- Jim Gillogly Highday, 4 Solmath S.R. 1998, 17:05 12.19.4.15.14, 5 Ix 12 Muan, Eighth Lord of Night

2 1

NYTimes web cookies
by ghio＠temp0199.myriad.ml.org 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> Cookies and the NYTIMES subscription: NYTIMES.COM tries to store your > userid and password in the cookie with keywords PW= and ID=. Problem is, > it tries to encode them using 8-bit characters. Lucky for us, at this time > NYTIMES.COM does not check if userid/password are valid, just that they're > a part of the cookie!! So, just add these two lines to your junkbuster > config: > > wafer PW=0 > wafer ID=0 > > and nytimes.com will greet you as "0" and let you right in. It doesn't check the PW or ID at all except the first time you log in. After that it generates a new cookie titled NPLCNYT and that is the only cookie it checks; the PW and ID are not required to be there at all. If you delete the NPLCNYT cookie, it will check the PW/ID and generate a new one. An example cookie is below: NPLCNYT=AAAALw>AAAAAX9IUUWiPhfALqHZuSh2mUM0yzNOwGRReAAAAAsAAAAAY3lwaGVycHVua3M> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^|||||##### The characters marked ^^^ appear to be random, and change every time a new cookie is generated. The ones marked ##### appear to encode the originating IP address, and ||||| appears to be date/time. The rest don't seem to change (tho I only tried ID=cypherpunks PW=cypherpunks). The server will still accept the cookie if your IP address changes. There does seem to be some sort of checksum on the data. While the relatively small area it uses to store the time and IP address wouldn't seem to leave much room for this, I wasn't able to find a spoofed cookie that it would accept - perhaps the checksum is included in the 'random' part.

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Re: Tossing your cookies [Re: Why no "Banner Ad Eaters"?]
by Alan Olsen 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 09:16 AM 1/25/98 -0800, Jim Gillogly wrote: > >Heinz-Juergen Keller skribis: >> Just a silly? question on cookies: >> What will happen if I just link cookies.txt to /dev/null ? >> Is there anything speaking against this solution? > >Works fine on Unix and Linux systems if you're not a cookie fan: >the remote sites think you've eaten their cookies, but you've >merely frisbeed them into the bit bin. > >It's better than telling Netscape you want to be asked: some >sites set a dozen cookies per hit, seems like, and saying "no" >to each gets immediately tedious. If you tell Netscape to reject >them, some sites won't serve you the content. Setting the browser >to accept everything and linking cookies.txt to /dev/null works >well for me. You can also make the cookie.txt file read only. Both of these options only make the cookies valid for the current session. They do not make them go away all together. Some of the site that cookie bomb do so out of ignorance. Old versions of Apache have such cookie bombing set by default. (They changed the name of the option soon after. The option was originally called "Mod_cookies" and people left it figuring that if they disabled it, they could not use cookies. Actually it is a method for tracking usage patterns within a site. The module was renamed to reflect that.) I am willing to bet that most of the sites that send cookies are not even using the data they provide. Few log file crunchers can make use of the cookie data from user tracking in any worthwhile manner. Any company that relies on cookies to hold onto membership information is foolish. (Cookie files only hold 300 entries. Surf enough and the membership infomation gets washed away with the tide.) Cookies are not needed for storefronts. There are better ways to accomplish the same thing. (There are CGI storefronts that save the information on files on the server, for instance.) I can understand why cookies were thought up in the first place. Much of cgi programming is overcoming the stateless nature of http. Unfortunatly, the idea was not thought out that well... --- | "That'll make it hot for them!" - Guy Grand | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | |`finger -l alano(a)teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/ |alan(a)ctrl-alt-del.com|

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Eureka! Mon Jan 26 '98
by eureka＠eureka.abc-web.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Your nyrealty.com preferences
by aptinfo＠nyrealty.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Thank you, Random Q. Hacker, for setting your preferences at nyrealty.com Now, every time you return to www.nyrealty.com, the site will be customized according to your preferences. If you have any questions regarding the operations of the site or if you need assistance in finding an apartment in New York City, please contact us at aptinfo(a)nyrealty.com Sincerely, Real Estate On-Line http://www.nyrealty.com

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More dumb ad sites for your killfile
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

ads.lycos.com ad.doubleclick.net ads.altavista.digital.com ad.preferences.com ph-ad*.focalink.com www.news.com/Banners ads.lycos.com static.wired.com/advertising

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Re: Why no "Banner Ad Eaters"?
by John Kelsey 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- [ To: cypherpunks ## Date: 01/25/98 ## Subject: Re: Why no "Banner Ad Eaters"? ] >Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 23:53:19 -0800 >From: Bill Stewart <bill.stewart(a)pobox.com> >Subject: Re: Why no "Banner Ad Eaters"? >At 11:16 PM 1/22/98 -0800, Wei Dai wrote: >>It seems to me that blocking ads is no different from >>blocking porn. All of the technology being developed for the >>latter purpose (PICS for example) will eventually be used >>for the former. >With both PICS ratings for web pages and the new TV ratings, >somehow the ratings only apply to the program and not the >ads. After all, if each TV commercial had to be separately >rated, people would rapidly develop equipment to autoblock >commercials, and that just wouldn't do. Note that there's a difference in incentives, here, too. Porn sites in most countries, including the US, have some strong legal and social incentives to rate themselves honestly, and probably have relatively little financial incentive to rate themselves inaccurately. (Think of the hassles you get with things like disputed credit card payments made by someone's 14-year-old kid.) This makes the blocking software's job a lot easier. I just can't see what incentive advertisers have to co-operate with rating systems of this kind. How would it improve your bottom line? Advertisers are likely to get paid either on the basis of number of people who see the ad, or on the basis of number of people who click on the ad. In either case, letting your ad be casually filtered out is just not going to make you any money. About the only incentive I can see for letting your ads be blocked is the desire not to make too many ad recipients mad at the advertiser. (Presumably, this is the reason why spam is almost never used by reputable companies--they don't want to make too many potential customers angry.) But this doesn't seem to apply to webpage ads, which manage not to be quite intrusive enough to enrage their targets. >Unfortunately, you're probably right, though providers and >advertisers who really want their messages to get through >will find ways to do it. The current banners are nice, >friendly implementations in that they're easy to identify >and block; newer ones will just be sneakier. I assume that, sooner or later, the advertisements will be woven in so well that it's all-but-impossible to get rid of them without also getting rid of the useful content you're trying to read/see/use. [Good comments deleted.] >Alternatively, >they may go to clickthrough payment models - the web page >owner only gets paid when people click on the ad, though >perhaps at a higher rate than current "impressions". Maybe. Either way, in the long run, ads that don't seem to be generating sales aren't going to be renewed. Being able to count clicks gives you one metric for this; another is completed sales from those clicks. This defines why web page owners that are making lots of ad revenue will have lots of incentive to make people who use their services look at and respond to their ads. People will try various things to make this happen. If none of them work, then ad-supported pages will cease to exist. Many of the services now supported by ads have other good revenue models. Sites like Dejanews and Altavista have enough name-recognition to do things like sell custom searching or research from their Usenet and Web databases, or provide statistical customer profiles that don't reveal customer identities but are still of use to marketers. >Bill >Bill Stewart, bill.stewart(a)pobox.com Note: I read CP-LITE instead of the whole list. Please CC me on replies. - --John Kelsey, kelsey(a)counterpane.com / kelsey(a)plnet.net NEW PGP print = 5D91 6F57 2646 83F9 6D7F 9C87 886D 88AF -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNMwNTiZv+/Ry/LrBAQH6KgP/c0o0ZiraSW7PbmDK6YQh+D3wp48cIn3S manFeca05yuoJDvs6ZKO85ycvVTvVZXBP8tvVDDAMD35CEfxGMNc/0bk1hqS/rx9 /gkHy/OYeKvcSscP9KwWTRtGu+DhHxjNqxOuFFgw6QBCxA5KDdUakF64POlYbi/2 +/kMlWS3on0= =QsU7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Technolgies of Political Control
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Thanks to Axel Horns and Ulf Möller we offer an excerpt of the draft European Parliament report on global surveillance cited in news reports recently: An Appraisal of Technolgies of Political Control Scientific and Technological Options Assessment Working Document (Consultation version) PE 166 499 Luxembourg, 6 January 1998 The report covers: - The Role & Function of Political Control Technologies - Recent Trends and Innovations - Developments in Surveillance Technologies - Innovations in Crowd Control Weapons - New Prison Control Systems - Interrogation, Torture Techniques and Technologies - Regulation of Horizontal Proliferation - Further Research See excerpt: http://jya.com/atpc.htm Printed copies are available from the staff of the British MEP Glyn Ford (tel +322 2843748 fax +322 2849059, jford(a)europarl.eu.int)

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