December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: big word listing
by Alex de Joode 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Jim Gillogly sez: : Also you should be aware that cracking passwords is passe' these days: : it's much easier to run an ethernet sniffer and gather them wholesale. : Every little bit helps, though. Is there a "challenge response" type of password/login available somewhere ? -- /ME kewl as fuck !

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Searching for reference
by ruf＠osiris.cs.uow.edu.au 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I am trying to find some pointers to a recent UK finacial services report of the Foresight Program. It deals with fraud detection systems, an outline appeared in 'The Australian' 9th May 1995 - by Vanessa Houlder from Financial Times, London. Additionally any pointers to :- Jason Kingdon of SearchSpace. Barclay and Touche Ross (Mr Mark Tantum) - Fraud 2000 system. Visa International's - Cardholder Risk Identification System (CRIS) - Merchant Risk Identification System (MRIS) Cooper & Lybrand's (System Name?) - Using Netmap visualisation software (by Active Analysis) in conjunction with neural net & knowledge based system. Additionally any information in regard to such systems would be useful. TRW, Mastercard, etc.. So far have been unable to find any details via gopher, netfind searches and would like to avoid making international phone calls. -- +---------------------+--------------------------------------------------+ | ____ ___ | Justin Lister ruf(a)cs.uow.edu.au | | | \\ /\ __\ | Center for Computer Security Research | | | |) / \_/ / |_ | Dept. Computer Science voice: 61-42-214-327 | | | _ \\ /| _/ | University of Wollongong fax: 61-42-214-329 | | |_/ \/ \_/ |_| (tm) | Computer Security a utopian dream... | | | Disclaimer: dreaming is at own risk | +---------------------+--------------------------------------------------+

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Re: Anyone going to DEFCON
by jeremym＠jax.jaxnet.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>As chance has it, I will be vacationing in Las Vegas July 29 - August 6. >Is anyone else planning on going to DEFCON? > >Sam I'm planning to attend all of DefCon III. I, for one, am anxious to meet Bruce Schneier. AFAIK, there will be time for Q&A during the Con, and I'd be happy to ask questions for anyone who won't be able to attend. .jeremy --- Jeremy Mineweaser | GE d(++) H- s+:- g- p1+ au a18 w+ v++ jeremym(a)jax.jaxnet.com | C++ L++++ P+>+++ L+ 3+ E- N++>+++ K- http://www.jaxnet.com/~jeremym | W++@ M-- V- po+ Y++ t++ 5 j+ R+++ G? tv- Finger for PGP key | b++ D++ B-- e u---(**) h! f+ n---- y? http://dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/x.html | *ai*vr*vx*crypto*ITAR*unix*data havens*

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Re: Netscape the Big Win(dows)
by shamrock＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 21:47 7/21/95, Damaged Justice wrote: >Au contraire. I finally got the chance to use Netscape, and although I AM >impressed, I still prefer Lynx. Most folks will probably call this pointless >stubborness, elitism, I don't care. Graphics are too damn slow at any >speed and personally, I have no need (or desire) to have my net connection >slow to a snail's crawl just to make it "look nicer". Ever tried turining off "autoload immages"? -- Lucky Green <mailto:shamrock@netcom.com> PGP encrypted mail preferred.

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Re: Netscape the Big Win(dows)
by shamrock＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 19:15 7/21/95, bigdaddy(a)ccnet.com wrote: > In my own experience, the Mac newsreaders that I have >tried(mainly Nuntius and Newswatcher) have felt incredibly slow compared >to tin. Depends on the load on the host, the speed of your link, the speed of your Mac, and if you want to trade features for speed at that given moment. >What, IMHO, would be a good step forward would be Mac versions of >UNIX packages like pine and tin... The human interface is the whole point behind Newswatcher and Nuntius. As for Mac users that prefer tin, they already have an implementation available. It is called telnet. >preferably with AppleScripts that >implement the same functionality as the PineSign and TinSign scripts >recently distributed here. I have been thinking about writing AppleScripts that link Newswatcher with PGP. Unfortunately, there is another project that has precedence. Still, as with most great utility software not yet available, you can always try to write it yourself. Have fun, -- Lucky Green <mailto:shamrock@netcom.com> PGP encrypted mail preferred.

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Re: big word listing
by Joey Grasty 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Alex sez: > Is there a "challenge response" type of password/login available > somewhere ? > Post Office Protocol 3 (POP3) has an optional command called APOP which sends a string of the form "<process-ID.clock@hostname>". The POP3 client calculates the MD5 digest of <process-ID.clock@hostname>password and sends it to the server as "APOP username 58349485whatever89583449". I like it. Regards, -- Joey Grasty jgrasty(a)gate.net [home -- encryption, privacy, RKBA and other hopeless causes] jgrasty(a)pts.mot.com [work -- designing pagers] "Anyone who considers arithmetical methods of producing random digits is, of course, in a state of sin." -- John Von Neumann

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Re: big word listing
by stewarts＠ix.netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 04:17 PM 7/21/95 -0500, Chris Gorsuch wrote: [ stuff about keeping a dictionary of previously used passwords to prevent reuse ] > A "cryptographic" solution would be to simply store a hash of the password >rather than the password itself in the "appended" dictionary. A CRYPTOGRAPHIC >solution would be to use one time passwords :). Be _very_ careful if you try this. After all, it's an invitation for anybody who runs the dictionary to use a crack program on the convenient list of hashes. (If you use the same hash as the password file, you haven't risked _too_ much, but using something fast like MD5 invites people to use their pre-computed "MD5's of a million wimpy passwords" list. #--- # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, Freelance Information Architect, stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # Phone +1-510-247-0664 Pager/Voicemail 1-408-787-1281 #--- # Export PGP three lines a time --> http://dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/export/ M0V]N9W)E<W,@<VAA;&P@;6%K92!N;R!L87<@+BXN(&%B<FED9VEN9R!T:&4@ M9G)E961O;2!O9B!S<&5E8V@L(&]R(&]F('1H92!P<F5S<SL-"F]R('1H92!R M:6=H="!O9B!T:&4@<&5O<&QE('!E86-E86)L>2!T;R!A<W-E;6)L92P@( T*

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Re: Something occured to me
by Andrew.Spring＠ping.be 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >Whent he republicans took over the congress, they instidtued that >Contract on America. One of the first laws that was passed (by both >parties, I might add) was a law that made lawmakers abide by the same >laws that "normal" people abide by. > I think this was aimed at congress's tendency to exempt themselves from their own legislation. For example, Congressmen are, supposedly, entitled to practice hiring discrimination based on, "race, creed, or color of socks" in the words of GB Trudeau's Lacey Davenport. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMBAYFY4k1+54BopBAQHxuwP+J/ypbLg07RE49Mvc/oXTl9RtPwTInEv7 t2RjOb57I2gvjr60i/OS/1EFVQv8FE7iZHtXpOEw7W2nHRTOBsWwTx6L9b7NB5Z9 ufkierYXyJnTJvXXvkrevXZ4wmc26Q5dyMU35HmMensRJSYwlR213DyvvKD5aOG1 6MtCqMomJZQ= =Wn55 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- Thank you VERY much! You'll be getting a Handsome Simulfax Copy of your OWN words in the mail soon (and My Reply). <Andrew.Spring(a)ping.be> PGP Print: 0529 C9AF 613E 9E49 378E 54CD E232 DF96 Thank you for question, exit left to Funway.

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An idea about Java and remailer clients and servers...
by Phil Fraering 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I think someone mentioned the possibility of running a Mixmaster client in Java. I was under the impression that there was a lot of common code between the Mixmaster client and server versions, at least in the current version. Does it have to be the case, then, that we even have separate client and server versions? If a new program is going to be written in Java, can't it have the functionality of both client and server? Why not "charge" for the ability to send an anonymous message with the duty to have for a short time (maybe an hour or two) running on your machine a node in a remailer network? Phil

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Re: Government Mandated Keys
by dan＠milliways.org 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Wed, 19 Jul 1995 11:39:07 -0700 you wrote: >At 11:02 AM 7/19/95 PDT, rick hoselton wrote: >>I want to register the 1-bit key of "1". I expect to >>send about half my message bits encrypted, the rest will be clear-text. > >Oh, go ahead, register 0 also. You'll probably want to switch keys >occasionally during sessions. Actually, why don't we just register our favorite geometric constant, pi? Assuming it's non-repeating, and non-terminating, you're guaranteed that whatever key you end up using will be somewhere in pi. Dan ****************************************************************************** Vote Speaker Newt Gingrich for President!! Dan Bailey Worcester Polytechnic Institute, class of 1997. dan(a)milliways.org ******************************************************************************

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Re: Something occured to me
by Jason Burrell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > On Fri, 21 Jul 1995, Robert A. Hayden wrote: > > > Whent he republicans took over the congress, they instidtued that > > Contract on America. One of the first laws that was passed (by both > > parties, I might add) was a law that made lawmakers abide by the same > > laws that "normal" people abide by. > > If you believe that... > > Well, it is true, under certain limited circumstances, but it doesn't > make them criminally liable for writing bad laws, nor can it. The pity, of course, is that we can't get Exon for passing around a book that he said contained child pornography, since he's immune while he's on the Senate floor. - --- [This message has been signed by an auto-signing service. A valid signature means only that it has been received at the address corresponding to the signature and forwarded.] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Gratis auto-signing service iQBFAwUBMBE0fyoZzwIn1bdtAQGWwAF/b66+ddWoQ+k7lqOvRu5/2uZgCop5X+d4 ipMc98PXCucBiM5QHP5l6sIopZUVcr5H =grqV -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: big word listing
by Andrew.Spring＠ping.be 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Post Office Protocol 3 (POP3) has an optional command called >APOP which sends a string of the form "<process-ID.clock@hostname>". >The POP3 client calculates the MD5 digest of > > <process-ID.clock@hostname>password > >and sends it to the server as "APOP username 58349485whatever89583449". > >I like it. > Of course, this requires the user password to be stored unencrypted on the server; which you may not want to do. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMBEbT44k1+54BopBAQEvaAP/btvc6mK8aFL5ONL70aQRhJIY/Zu+6HnU WSDiVNLTtbEiMA+4W7hOD3RQORl42r/Lqdyevq+VmG1LAikCETDgS77jiGq11Kt+ q1HVGQEkiPexd8asJw66hjYLo+vWylu2U39e7YWc01ccr2Hr+zZR+/MHVPQsMq5y LXTiercKsow= =gdHC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- Thank you VERY much! You'll be getting a Handsome Simulfax Copy of your OWN words in the mail soon (and My Reply). <Andrew.Spring(a)ping.be> PGP Print: 0529 C9AF 613E 9E49 378E 54CD E232 DF96 Thank you for question, exit left to Funway.

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write some code
by Eric Anderson 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Sorry to revive such an old and tired thread, however I found the idea quite inspiring and went out and bought a C programming primer that comes W/ a complete tutorial and Borland's turbo C++ Lite compiler. You people have had a *VERY* profound impact on me and that is what set me on this course. I have just written my first program; the mandatory "Hello world" bit. Can someone point me in the direction of a mailing list about C programming? I have been reading the various comp. newsgroups, but I want to join a list on the subj. and make some more friends. Thanks, Eric

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Re: Three strikes you're out! for politicians... yeah we wish!
by Rich Salz 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Better yet do it the way Comedy Central wanted to: Three strikes your out and term limits. You can run for re-election but if you lose you get shot.

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Under Siege II
by Rev. Ben 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Saw Under Siege II last nite--fairly bad movie--wouldn't recommend it, but there was some cpunks/crypto relevance. * Mentioned the No Such Agency's SIGINT capabilities via COMMSAT * Mentioned encryption several times: + WRT to cell phones + WRT to Newton and encryping files + WRT to codes--used a CD-ROM to store a keyspace and encrypt and compare Encryption is going mainstream folks. Ben.

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Re: Netscape the Big Win
by James A. Donald 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 05:12 PM 7/20/95 -0400, Patrick J. LoPresti wrote: > When it becomes feasible to do what you are asking for Netscape, I am > sure that someone will do it. At the moment, it is largely out of our > hands, since the Netscape interface is totally controlled by Netscape > Communications... Netscape for windows, and I presume for Windows NT, supports DDE and OLE --------------------------------------------------------------------- | We have the right to defend ourselves | http://www.jim.com/jamesd/ and our property, because of the kind | of animals that we are. True law | James A. Donald derives from this right, not from the | arbitrary power of the state. | jamesd(a)echeque.com

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Re: The OS wars and DOOM...
by rfreeman＠netaxs.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>Given that games usually program close to the hardware, and are >therefore the _most_ difficult things to port from one environment >to another, it really makes one wonder why Excel isn't out for >(for example) Linux or BSD today. > I can think of one good reason for starters: Microsoft makes Excel. Microsoft makes Windoze. Windoze runs on IBM's and Linux runs X-Windows on IBM's. Microsoft doesn't make Linux which already has a tremendous advantage in cost and capability. Now how many people would pay to upgrade to Windoze 95 if there were a true multitasking OS which was free and more efficient and capable of operating on more limited systems and with as strong a software base? If I could get Microsoft Office for Linux, I would have switched myself. Unfortuantely, I don't have the disk space for both DOS and Linux, and I need the commercial grade word-processors, etc... There isn't all that much that needs to be added to an OS like Linux to make it easy for the general public (perhaps a set of default settings that don't require much fiddling by a unix wizard). Finally, once Microsoft promotes a unix-based OS by making software for it, people will start realizing how much free stuff there already is for unix, and they will stop buying all those nifty utility packages that they buy for DOS/Windoze. And lastly, heaven forbid, people will have access to a windowed OS with command line capability! Now we couldn't have that now, could we? :) ----------------------------------------------------------------- Richard T. Freeman <rfreeman(a)netaxs.com> - finger for pgp key 3D CB AF BD FF E8 0B 10 4E 09 27 00 8D 27 E1 93 http://www.netaxs.com/~rfreeman - ftp.netaxs.com/people/rfreeman

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RE: Doling out keyspace (was Re: There is no True Key)
by Bolivar Shagnasty 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> > - Each helper requests N bits of keyspace. > > - That chunk is doled out "randomly" by the server. >Is there any reason why the server should have to dole out the in the >first place? If a reasonable seed is available, there's no reason each >helper couldn't just generate a random starting key on its own (with a >uniform distribution). The owner of the key being cracked jumps in and "randomly" selects the part of the keyspace containing the key, then reports back in the negative. This defense of the key is reduced if the server doles out pieces of the keyspace randomly, selected only for size, and further reduced if the same space is given out multiple times to different requestors. Bolivar

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HOUDINI ON CRYPTO
by Sandy Sandfort 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SANDY SANDFORT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C'punks, I ran across an old book I bought when I was an adolescent. Like most boys (I don't know about girls) I went through a phase when I was interested in magic. The name of the book was "Houdini on Magic." In it, there is a section about Houdini's fascination with cryptography. He talks about relatively primative substitution ciphers and the like. One example, though, I thought might be of interest to Cypherpunks. He said the following inscription was written over the Decalogue in a country church. Apparently, no one was able to read it for over 200 years. Can you?: PRSRVYPRFCTMNVRKPTHSPRCPTSTN S a n d y ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Re: Ssh "security hole": proposed fix
by David Mazieres 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Well, a while ago I suggested the following as simplified (and therefore easier to find bugs in) ssh protocol: > PREAMBLE: > > (1) A -> B: A > (2) B -> A: Cb, PKsb, PKb > (3) A -> B: {Kab}_PKsb, {A, B, Cb}_Kab > (4) B -> A: {{A, B, Cb, Kab, PKsb}_SKb}_Kab > > SSH_AUTH_RHOSTS: > > (5) A -> B: 0 > > SSH_AUTH_RHOSTS_RSA: > SSH_AUTH_RSA: > > (5) A -> B: {{A, B, Cb, Kab}_SKa, PKa}_Kab > > SSH_AUTH_PASSWORD: > > (5) A -> B: {Ka}_Kab I was assuming that you would basically have to tolerate man-in-the-middle style attacks if A did not know PKb before the exchange. However, I have since realized that it is easy to have one's public key in an NFS mounted home directory when talking to a host one has never talked to before. Thus, B can know PKa even if A does not know PKb. This is enough to prevent man in the middle attacks if we modify the protocol slightly: PREAMBLE: (1) A -> B: A (2) B -> A: Cb, PKsb, PKb (3) A -> B: {Kab}_PKsb, {A, B, Cb}_Kab (4) B -> A: {{A, B, Cb, Kab, PKsb}_SKb}_Kab SSH_AUTH_RHOSTS: SSH_AUTH_PASSWORD: (5) A -> B: 0 SSH_AUTH_RHOSTS_RSA: SSH_AUTH_RSA: (5) A -> B: {{A, B, Cb, Kab, PKsb}_SKa, PKa}_Kab ^^^^ IF AUTHENTICATION NOT SUFFICIENT: (6) B -> A: {"Passwd:"}_Kab (7) A -> B: {Ka}_Kab ; Ka is A's password David

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Re: Non-US mixmaster sites
by C.CREUTZIG＠BIONIC.zerberus.de 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Ad> remailer(a)replay.com Ad> remailer(a)flame.alias.net Ad> remailer(a)utopia.hacktic.nl mixmaster(a)bi-node.zerberus.de is up and running. --- Christopher Creutzig | c.creutzig(a)bionic.zerberus.de PGP-verschlüsselte Nachrichten bevorzugt -- benutzt Briefumschläge!

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Mixmaster for DOS Yet?
by bluebird＠alpha.c2.org 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

[Please reply via netmail or Cc: - I have only periodic access to list.] Is the Mixmaster user software for DOS platforms completed yet? Thanks for any help.

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Re: Java (was Netscape: the big win)
by alan.pugh＠internetmci.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > There are many crypto-anarchy applications as well: > Key cracking. If you can write a key-cracker and keyspace fetcher in > Java, then people can join key cracking efforts as easily looking up > an URL. It may not be nearly as efficient as the highly optimized C > versions used in the current RC4-40 efforts, but there's going to be > millions of potential workers this way. If you were charging money > to break keys (or you were looking for keys that are very valuable > to you), you could set up the worker client to accept e-cash for in > return for searching keyspace "Click here to earn money while you > aren't using your machine..." Ensuring that workers are actually > searching the keyspace and other implementation details is left as an > exercise for the reader. > > e-instrument or information exchanges, with Java interfaces for bidding, > buying, selling, etc... i think i prefer the idea mentioned previously on the list where it works pretty much like a lottery. you could operate it in one of two ways. if the encrypted data was particularly valuable to its owner and was willing to put up a reward for the key, there would be an incentive for people to spend idle time running through keyspace. if it was structured as a reward, no money need be paid until the key is found. it could also be set up more like a traditional lottery where you 'buy' x amont of keyspace and if you hit it, all e-cash collected would go to you. there would be many problems with running this. nothing could keep someone from just running keys on their own in the hope of hitting it, then buy the keyspace that contains it if he got a hit. if the keyspace were allocated sequentially, and the person looking for the key only paid to the person who initially 'purchased' the keyspace, the person who got it could advertise for the person who got the space, although this would be problematic. if someone really wanted to do this, it would be _much_ easier to just run the operation similar to what was performed here in cypherpunks recently with the person who first reports the hit getting a reward of some amount, less a modest amount for the person/group coordinating the effort. amp <0003701548(a)mcimail.com> <alan.pugh(a)internetmci.com> Key fingerprint = A7 97 70 0F E2 5B 95 7C DB 7C 2B BF 0F E1 69 1D July 22, 1995 14:35 if someone wants a key and is willing to pay someone DataHavens, which would probably require complex (internally) software to use. I'm sure the online casino people are salivating over the prospects too... Basically any fancy crypto application that requires a custom client to operate... Since its platform independent, efforts will be put to better use as well. andrew -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.61 iQEVAwUBMBEazygP1O9KJoPBAQGHFwgAiO2ha7BFw04Fu3RNuk9FLFaZNrUYrFjR 5VBNkWeE3JOol7xSfrd7V8IzE2UyrVEwa4eyx5jHrPVQYxC9UTHzUW5nG3/vMefD gtCsQQcz5hL3Qbv6Cn2dqkTkWGbL7y/MxmblBm0u8vdX6/LPjAVTfucNrN9KxDY/ NXDM3tr9FclAWch6VKiXvjMeoognXNtpFfI76ReZzimJ4Yyoy9naGQ8BLdPiU1Xb mZIuFnVQWJe56YlBBgXo1aLsAcg48oWYCSMQXPRiQ/Bd6kL/Q6KHv34IbV8WVYib 9XjJd84JU+he5LDOIn9SO7gLXkRuBiiRsOalX89jjwAvFZwQuLMpGQ== =rqot -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ********************************************* * / Only God can see the whole * * O[%\%\%{<>===========================- * * \ Mandlebrot Set at Once! * * amp * * <0003701548(a)mcimail.com> * * <alan.pugh(a)internetmci.com> * ********************************************* Key fingerprint = A7 97 70 0F E2 5B 95 7C DB 7C 2B BF 0F E1 69 1D

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Re: Something occured to me
by shamrock＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In article <199507221725.NAA18382(a)bb.hks.net>, jburrell(a)crl.com ("Jason Burrell") wrote: >The pity, of course, is that we can't get Exon for passing around a book >that he said contained child pornography, since he's immune while he's on >the Senate floor. Wouln't the book become part of the Congressional Record? I'd love to know what Exon considers child pornography. - -- - -- Lucky Green <mailto:shamrock@netcom.com> PGP encrypted mail preferred. - --- [This message has been signed by an auto-signing service. A valid signature means only that it has been received at the address corresponding to the signature and forwarded.] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Gratis auto-signing service iQBFAwUBMBG51CoZzwIn1bdtAQHXmwF/b07myILkBJ6NugS+rSx6+R2hfuDb4j37 AlVZmKLkB1j5cgAkfeyAByLalIv7lDAL =GoSe -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: HOUDINI ON CRYPTO
by blancw＠accessone.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: Sandy Sandfort . . . there is a section about Houdini's fascination with cryptography. He talks about relatively primative substitution ciphers and the like. One example, though, I thought might be of interest to Cypherpunks. He said the following inscription was written over the Decalogue in a country church. Apparently, no one was able to read it for over 200 years. Can you?: PRSRVYPRFCTMNVRKPTHSPRCPTSTN .................................... It looks to be something like this to me: PRESERVE YE PERFECT MEN ?VR? KEEP THIS PERCEPT (or PRECEPT) SATAN .. Blanc

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