December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Jim Choate says we have nothing better to do!
by Jeff Gostin 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Jim choate <ravage(a)bga.com> writes: > But, because you folks apparently have nothing better to do we have > managed to generate a set of list traffic that vastly exceeds the original > forwards. You claim to not be incidiary, but this is definately just that. I've pretty much stayed out of this, but once it becomes personal ("...you folks..."), I get involved. I _do_ have better things to do than listen to you insult people you don't even know. One of the better things I have to do is to listen to well-informed, INFORMATIONAL posts, not the rantings of someone who claims to know exactly what I do with my time. > Reminds me of the years I worked in a science museum and people were > always coming around with new projects for me to do. My general > responce became to point them to the shop and tell them to have at. I > have little respect for people who have nothing better to do than tell > others how to spend their time. If the suggestion is that great, carry > it out yourself. Your attitude stinks. Have you ever heard of a term called BRAINSTORMING? In case you haven't, or have forgotten the meaning, Webster's New World Dictionary cites the following: brain.storm.ing n. the unrestrained offering of ideas or suggestions by all members of a conference to seek solutions to problems. I don't know about you, but this sounds EXACTLY like what's going on here: The unrestrained offering of ideas or suggestions by all [READERS] of a [MAILING LIST] to seek SOLUTIONS to [SITUATIONS WARRANTING ATTENTION]. In reference to your job at the science museum, evidently, you were the person who was the "doer." The people who wanted something done went to the person who was responsible for doing -- you. I'm glad you no longer have to job. It seems that your disposition, and attitude, are wrong for the job. > I didn't condem the list or anyone else for that matter. You didn't? Hmmm.... who said "But, because you folks apparently have nothing better to do we have managed to generate a set of list traffic that vastly exceeds the original forwards" just a few paragraphs ago? I'll give you a hint, it wasn't me.... >> People who lash out at the list, calling the list a place for people >> who never do anything, are revealing their own failures of >> imagination. > I *NEVER* said that or anything like it. Geesh, speaking of imagination. True. You said it was a place for "[People who] apparently have nothing better to do..." Your words, not mine. --Jeff -- ====== ====== +----------------jgostin(a)eternal.pha.pa.us----------------+ == == | The new, improved, environmentally safe, bigger, better,| == == -= | faster, hypo-allergenic, AND politically correct .sig. | ==== ====== | Now with a new fresh lemon scent! | PGP Key Available +---------------------------------------------------------+

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Re:NII, NSA and Computer Security Act of 1987
by koontzd＠lrcs.loral.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Newsgroups: alt.poltics.org.nsa,alt.politics.datahighway,comp.org.eff.talk >Who the hell co-opted NII for National Security? Every discussion to date >(at least on the internet) has shown no link to National Security, which >should be the only way NSA is involved. For A contrast see the July/August issue of INFO SECURITY NEWS there are several articles on security of the NII. The only person appearing to be aware of any implied EES type protection is Rep. Edward Markey, (D-MA) who is quoted in Info Highway Security VIEWPOINTS: --- On securing NII: "We need to conduct a full debate on the Clipper chip and encryption issues so that people can protect their data and their privacy." --- [He is in favor of applying the Bill of Rights to cyberspace] No one else supports Clipper/Capstone as a serious contender, and a good number of interviewees see the role of government in the NII as limited. There are several applicable articles.

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National Highways to National Information Infrastructure
by Michael Wilson 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Cypherpunks: Mr. May brought up the interesting correlation between the two project; many of you may not be old enough to note that the first project mentioned, that of the national highway system in the United States, was sponsored by your current Vice President Gore's father, the OTHER Senator Gore. It was what is politely termed 'pork' then, just as NII is pork now. Just how much money do you think companies are making off the new export liberalization and stand to make from the NII? Who profits, or as came from the Watergate era, follow the money. No wonder the politically active players seem to be rolling over on some issues; they are being given an annuity for the next twenty years.

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Supposed NSA turncoat reveals monitoring of anon remailers? >pshah!<
by Stanton McCandlish 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I believe this to be a forgery of course, but it might be of interest anyway. Forwarded message:

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Clipper vs. PGP
by Aron Freed 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Since I consider myself new to this whole topic, even though I have read several articles about PGP and CLIPPER, I wanted to get some more info and understanding for my senior seminar next May.... Does anyone have any opinions on what would happen if the Clipper Chip and its associates were all implemented and the general public swallowed on it?? Would we as knowledgeable computer people become outlaws??? Would be it like 1984?? Would our computer illiterate neighbors try and catch us??? And going the complete opposite direction (a full 180). If the public was able to obtain PGP as easily as we are and they would use it for everything, would that lead to the overthrowing of the government and therefore cause anarchy, due to the fact the governmnet would be helpless in knowing what everyone is doing contrary to the CIA, FBI, etc. being able to read everything we write and say through their current illegal wiretaps??? I'm just looking to get a complete picture. At this moment I would go with PGP, but I still see a lot of problems with being on either side. They seem so extreme... Aaron -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -=- YABBS - telnet phred.pc.cc.cmu.edu 8888 -=- -=- -=- =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=

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Whew! The dangers of posting to Usenet
by anonymous＠extropia.wimsey.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

tcmay(a)netcom.com (Timothy C. May) wrote: > What's of ObList relevance is that many of them seem oblivous to the > fact that their posts are readable by the world....see the one below > and you'll see why I don't think Ms. Yamada knows her post to her > "sisters and brothers" is actually readable by us all. My hunch is > that a lot of newcomers have just gotten on the Net and are unclear on > the concepts. > I could be wrong. Maybe her account at Mindvox is a cut-out. Maybe she > knows but doesn't care. Judge for yourself: [most of quoted message edited out] > also, Jerry Wade has turned La Plaza into a cesspool and the > 11th street squat burned down completely and the flotsam are > now living in La Plaza. It is noisy, dirty, hard-drug ridden, > and Jerry is dealing dust outta there with abandon. Naive posting ... or .... maybe, just maybe, a clever use of steganography? BTW, what's a "cut-out"? I could probably guess at the meaning, but that's the first time I've heard that term used.

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Video cyphers and RNG's...
by Jim choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi all, Just a referal: Video Scrambling & Descrambling for Satellite & Cable TV Graf & Sheets ISBN 0-672-22499-2 Data sheet- AT&T T7000A Digital Encryption Processor AT&T T7001 Random Number Generator Patents- US # 4,336,553 4,405,942 4,479,142 Take care.

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Remailer chaining helper program.
by roy＠sendai.cybrspc.mn.org 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Was it here that I saw mention of a program to generate chained remailer traffic automatically> Pointers appreciated, and thanks! - -- Roy M. Silvernail | #include <stdio.h> | PGP 2.3 public roy(a)sendai.cybrspc.mn.org | main(){ | key available | int x=486; | upon request | printf("Just my '%d.\n",x);} | (send yours) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6 iQCVAwUBLh7pgBvikii9febJAQFRxwP+MJwg7+HZAHkmxe/yOpOiXnHhdrcDTh2j vWpZDr9w6O3gyVqT/Pn7AkGuNLHNvTKX1HirCSsu8dKYqUwEgn8iGqhhflbG/Vj7 4AjxxxALIh6bjpbJXWs2oBe75pcfZuGh2eplbLxYsNL08+LjjCIRi7PYHUCU+v1K C013N3+H6n0= =c65q -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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How many cypherpunks?
by sico＠hacktic.nl 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Saturday July 09 1994 01:04, Harry Bartholomew wrote to All: HB> After the two list meltdowns, there are now only 508 of us left. That count may not be accurate. There are sites with an abundance of cypherpunks that turn the list into news, which makes transport (often over UUCP links) more efficient. CU, Sico.

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Forwarding or pointers + attorney use of PGP
by greg＠ideath.goldenbear.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Count this as a vote in favor of pointers to information instead of reposts, at least where the original is easily accessed by most folks. The only time I find reproductions in toto useful is where the information comes from private mail, obscure mailing lists, or other sources I can't get. Also, I thought some C-punks might be pleased to hear that PGP and discussions of encryption/confidentiality are making their way into the legal community - a law/computers list I'm on has recently had a spurt of messages re confidentiality and attorney/client privilege, and every response so far has mentioned PGP in a positive light. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.5 iQCVAgUBLh77nX3YhjZY3fMNAQHlFAP7Bv9WvNrzmwj83YeznlObs7tsEDViVAtH oa2J+mVcLsSbXQGc8/lIsSKHsQarPdXn3nalo3fuG8lcRNPWKXDKlwnoagkCo5D8 DQrWfOr6toM4bYUNr7PfL9Q+Ou4faCX/5Yl7cTWlzM1cGmiETGpjkd4tSUNJ8DkD KfN0n0X+wgk= =W461 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: All the free energy in the universe
by Jonathan Rochkind 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> The late Nobel laureate Richard Feynman became very interested in the > subject of computation and physics towards the end of his life. My > understanding is that he concluded that there was no apparent > limitation to the amount of computation that could be completed with a > given amount of free energy. Computation may indeed always dissipate > energy, but Feyman's conclusion was that this dissipated energy can be > made arbitrarily small -- that there is no fundamental quantum > limitation on the amount of computation that can be performed at any > given mass-energy scale. Actually, I _think_ I've read an article in a pop-science magazine about some work of Hawking's that indicated there was a minimum amount of energy neccesary to do some sort of quanta of computation. (is there such a thing ? I don't know enough about the math, I'm afraid. INformation theory?) If my memory serves, he used this to hint at a solution to the "why does time only flow in one direction, when the mathematics are perfectly symmetrical both ways?" question. But I could be wrong. Sorry I don't have any better info then you.

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(None)
by Jeff Gostin 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

greg(a)ideath.goldenbear.com (Greg Broiles) writes: > Count this as a vote in favor of pointers to information instead of Count this as a second, plus some kind of summary of the article referenced. :-) --Jeff -- ====== ====== +----------------jgostin(a)eternal.pha.pa.us----------------+ == == | The new, improved, environmentally safe, bigger, better,| == == -= | faster, hypo-allergenic, AND politically correct .sig. | ==== ====== | Now with a new fresh lemon scent! | PGP Key Available +---------------------------------------------------------+

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As long as we're voting,
by D.C. Williams 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> > > Count this as a vote in favor of pointers to information instead of > Count this as a second, plus some kind of summary of the article > referenced. :-) . . . I concur. Pointers are preferable. =D.C. Williams

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Cypherpunks Gopher Server Modifications
by Chael Hall 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The Cypherpunks gopher server at chaos has been migrated from gopherd to GN version 2.09. All of the data should be intact. Although many of the filenames have been changed so that they could be stored in compressed format, they should be served exactly the same way as before. If you experience any problems with the system, please write gopher-admin(a)chaos.bsu.edu. This entire gopher hierarchy will probably be moving in the near future after I install the new hard drive for chaos, but there should be no interruption in service. Chael -- Chael Hall, nowhere(a)chaos.bsu.edu

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Re: As long as we're voting,
by D.C. Williams 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> > > > Count this as a vote in favor of pointers to information instead of > > > Count this as a second, plus some kind of summary of the article > > > referenced. :-) > > > > . . . I concur. Pointers are preferable. > > > > Ditto, with regards to on-line, electronic sources. However, if you > want to take the time to type-in an article related to crypto by > hand, I'll certainly take the time to read it. Agreed. Let's not be too quick to condemn those who offer material of interest in any form. We're quibbling over format, but provided that it's not C&S e-spam and is crypto related, the sentiment is good. My thanks to those who take the time and effort to alert others to material of interest. My only request is that they be as judicious as possible and forward or post only those tidbits that can't be readily obtained elsewhere. If someone else can't get it for themselves, other c'punks are usually very helpful w/ email forwards (I've done this for others a few times myself). =D.C. Williams

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Re: As long as we're voting,
by an65＠vox.hacktic.nl 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>> >> > Count this as a vote in favor of pointers to information instead of >> Count this as a second, plus some kind of summary of the article >> referenced. :-) > . . . I concur. Pointers are preferable. >=D.C. Williams I agree. I'm especially interested in references to alt.usenet.kooks, alt.pedophiles, and reviews of any TV shows with babes in them. c@lib@n -------------------------------------------------------------------------- To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help(a)vox.hacktic.nl Please report any problems, inappropriate use etc. to admin(a)vox.hacktic.nl Direct replies to the sender of this message are -not- anonymised..<YuK>..

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Re: As long as we're voting,
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Responding to D.C. Williams on Sat, 9 Jul 4:2 PM: >My thanks to those who take the time and effort to alert others to material of interest. Seconded. John

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Re: (fwd) Re: BSD random() - any good (source included)?
by norm＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 15:20 1994/07/07 -0500, Jim choate wrote: ... >Does anybody know of a good test for randomness? I would definitely like to >know how good computer RNG's are. Post away! A good RNG must pass all such tests. The idea of just one test is itself dangerous. It would be a generous person who would collect such tests and organize them to a common interface. Only then would you begin to have "one test": the collection of these tests. I coded a blum filter a few years ago which requires about 16,000 random bits. I tried several prngs in various libraries, then implemented several from literature including Knuth. All of these caused the filter to work at about half efficiency. I could find no bugs in the filter code. Then I recalled that there was a DES routine available. I used DES to generate the random bits. The filter then worked close to the theoritical maximum!

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A proposal for handling "forwards"
by doug＠OpenMind.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

How about setting up a second e-mail list on majordomo, called "cypherpunks-fwds" or "cypherxtra" or some such thing. I, for one, am quite appreciative of receiving such posts as Jim Choate's forwards... but my disk space is abundant and my connection is permanent and not metered. I can understand why many people would prefer not to receive such things. This way people can choose whether they want to receive these types of longish, possible repeats (including the EFF announcements) or not. I guess I can think of reasons this might not be such a good idea (the new list might be completely empty, or it might be flooded with garbage, etc). But there it is... Doug __ __ __ __ Doug Cutrell / ) /__) /_ /\ / /| /| / /\ / / ) doug(a)OpenMind.com \_/ / (_ / \/ / |/ | / / \/ /__/ ===================================================================

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DC nets
by John Clark 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I want to thank Tim May for his posting on DC nets, you packed a lot of information into a short post and I have NEVER seen it explained more clearly. John K Clark johncla(a)freenet.scri.fsu.edu

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Escrow Officer Trading Cards <fwd>
by rarachel＠photon.poly.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message:

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No Subject
by nobody＠rebma.rebma.mn.org 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

about the credit card transactions. i was stupid and lost the one reply that showed interest. but the data i have is for one network only. it's TeleMoney, run by Ceridian (used to be Control Data), and there's no encryption on the transaction at all. the information would end up pretty long, and i don't want to bomb this list. interested people should send me mail instead. include a pgp public key. to get mail to me, use remailer(a)rebma.mn.org and include the following at the beginning of your message: :: Encrypted: PGP -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.6 hIwC15oMrSC6gKkBBACF5WvZBz0336fvlIJslMD02PCVJM/5hZeC85Uwd88Z9u8k 9Cbs979V6N/JqqOQmC/88u58sFyYqqsRGrxxjhjZGEeE0wDHRniS4ALjts/22dry NYr7ep9O4nzYtHU4ac1BeYm1AbSyk4jbjSIw8a6D0l6SI3L72alKSQxCzyZvkqYA AABQoCjtMyZ8kngK9ZCf3vR9l1yltdp/QoiWBXLhZ43VMi/GIV8VWcVsL5KD9lTW QRC5Kxpq0RqOazjdrdxPOaN9/43IIVPAj50KnKpSyFyWnf0= =bdsK -----END PGP MESSAGE-----

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Re: Request: tamper-proofing executables
by wcs＠anchor.ho.att.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tamperproofing things that aren't hardware is difficult. If your code is sufficiently non-obfuscated to be worth tampering with, Bad Guys can tamper with the tamper-checking code just as easily as they can with the useful-stuff code. One way around this is to leave digital-signature-checking to exterior programs, e.g. include a PGP signature (probably in a separate file to avoid mushing it into your binaries) and let them check the signature from their own copy of PGP. (Or for cheapness without patent problems, distribute a RIPEM-sig instead.) Some people have suggested code that does things like encrypt some critical parts of the code and decode them on the fly at runtime, using a key that's generated by checksumming the file and XORing with the last 8 bytes or some variant. Sufficiently persistent Bad Guys can respond to this by grabbing the code from memory as they run it, and you can play games with them about decoding stuff a piece at a time, etc. (All of this is of coure easier in LISP or interpreted languages.....) How much work you want to put into this depends on how much effort you think the Bad Guys are willing to spend cracking your code. I've heard people talk about doing totally encrypted computation, but I'm not sure whether anything practical hs been implemented. Bill # Bill Stewart AT&T Global Information Solutions, aka NCR Corp # 6870 Koll Center Parkway, Pleasanton CA, 94566 Phone 1-510-484-6204 fax-6399 # email bill.stewart(a)pleasantonca.ncr.com billstewart(a)attmail.com # ViaCrypt PGP Key IDs 384/C2AFCD 1024/9D6465

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Xerox glyphs
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Pointer: Xerox glyphs encoding process. Publication: The New York Times, July 10, 1994; Section 3; Business; p. 9. Title: Smart Paper Documents for the Electronic Age. Subhead: A new coding method hides computer data in plain view, By: John Holusha. A quote from an illustration: A Xerox technology, known as glyphs, would enable paper business documents to carry thousands of characters of information hidden in unobtrusive gray patterns that can appear as backgrounds or shading patterns. Glyphs could be used for encoding machine-readable data onto paper documents.

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Remailer usage statistics
by ghio＠kaiwan.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I added a new feature to my remailer. Send mail to ghio(a)kaiwan.com with Subject: remailer-stats for a list of statistics on remailer usage for the last 24 hours. It will report the number of messages remailed in the last 24 hours, how many of them were encrypted with PGP, and how many of them were delayed with latency (regardless of whether or not the message has been sent out yet). It also shows a graph of how many messages were received each hour. This should help people time their latent messages to arrive or depart at particularily 'busy' times in order to confuse someone who is attempting traffic analysis. Also, by popular demand, I have added a help file. Send mail to ghio(a)kaiwan.com with Subject: remailer-help and it will send you a help file.

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