December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

What the IRS is up to
by johnl＠iecc.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Here's some excerpts from a speech by Coleta Brueck, Project Manager, Document Processing system, at the Internal Revenue Service, that she gave at the Computer Press Association Awards luncheon in New York on April 15th. I was at the lunch, but the transcript of the speech just arrived today. The ellipses are mine, but I think I'm not distorting what she said. She started by explaining that their current systems are functionally based on punch card systems from the 1950s, and they want to get more stuff on-line so that when you call with a question, the person at the IRS can retrieve a copy of your records while you're still on the phone. But then: "We should be able to provide you on-line access to that information. ... You will have the availability to know what your current account information is, very much like if most of us who have an American Express Card, you can call -- you don't really know where that 800 number goes, but what you do know is when that person answers your call, they have your complete account information. ... They can give you information on your account, they can update your account, or they can provide you futuristic looks into your account as to where you might be next year, even, for filing tax returns. We've often talked about, and this is the terminology that I used when I was in on a task group, we've talked about the "golden eagle" return. This is the golden -- or gold American Express Card return. At the end of each year, if you have an American Express Card, you get a gold account summary of what you've done for the year. ... Basically, what I say is that if I know what you've made during the year, if I know what your withholding is, if I know what your spending pattern is, I should be able to generate for you a tax return so that I only come to you and tell you, 'This is what I think you should file for the next year, and if you agree to that, then don't bother sending me a piece of paper.' ... But I am an excellent advocate of return-free filing. We know everything about you that we need to know. Your employer tells us everything about you that we need to know. Your activity records on your credit cards tell us everything about you that we need to know. Through interface with Social Security, with the DMV, with your banking institutions, we really have a lot of information, so why would you, at the end of the year or on April 15th, today, do we ask the post office to encumber themselves with massive numbers of people out there, picking up pieves of paper that you are required to file? ... We could literally file a return for you. This is the future that we'd like to go to." Lest there be any doubt, she was entirely serious, and she clearly expected that that we'd all think this is as wonderful as she does. Regards, John Levine, johnl(a)iecc.com, jlevine(a)delphi.com, 1037498(a)mcimail.com

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Chill out.... was Re: Keyserver service outRAGE
by Pat Farrell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

"Perry E. Metzger" <perry(a)snark.imsi.com> writes: > Rather than everyone freaking out about 2.5, why not just wait a few > hours until the FTP site is announced and look at the thing for > ourselves? > > Myself, I'm running on the assumption that this is a good thing, > because now PGP is completely legal in the U.S., and doubtless a PGP > thats legal overseas using a library compatible with RSAREF will > appear within days of release. Amen to this! Wait a week, and this might be a great thing. If not, keep using 2.3a. I know that Jim Bidzos was interested in having a "pgp compatible" program that started with rsaref and was legal and free. I know because I asked him about liscensing last spring. He pointed me to an effort that professor Jeffery Schiller (pgp key 0C4EE1 (jis@mit) on the usual servers) was coordinating. I exchanged a few messages with a student up there, then got lost in GMU work and lost track. I think the student did something else, like crack RSA-129. But there are lots of students at schools like MIT and GMU. I sure hope this can provide a cloud free PGP for broke students. Lets drop this thread for while, ok? Pat Pat Farrell Grad Student pfarrell(a)cs.gmu.edu Department of Computer Science George Mason University, Fairfax, VA Public key availble via finger #include <standard.disclaimer>

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MIT keyserver: don't panic...
by Mike Ingle 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Take a look at pgformat.doc, which is included in the source or doc releases of pgp23a. Both the public key and signature packets have only a single-byte version number, which is always equal to 2. So there is no way to tell by looking at your key which minor version (2.xx) it was created by. You can tell which version was used to extract it to ascii armor by looking at the "Version: 2.xx" line in the ascii armored message. So get a text editor. Big deal. You will not have to regenerate your keys and get new signatures on them. If we have a no-doubts legal PGP, with source code, and free, that's good! If something sucks about it, PGP23a is not going to disappear. This can only be a positive development. As for why the keyserver crippling was imposed, RSA can lose its patent rights if it can't show in court that it made an effort to prevent its patents from being infringed. --- Mike

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DefenseServices
by Peter Murphy 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: "Perry E. Metzger" <perry(a)snark.imsi.com> Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com Precedence: bulk Status: R _______ MESSAGE BEGINS ___________ Jim Miller says: > Section #120.9 of the ITAR defines "Defense Service" as: > > (1) The furnishing of assistance (including training) to foreign > persons, whether in the United States or abroad in the design, > development, engineering, manufacture, production, assembly, testing, > repair, maintenance, modification, operation, demilitarization, > destruction, processing, or use of defense articles; or > (2) The furnishing to foreign persons of any technical data > controlled under this subchapter (see #120.10), whether in the United > States or abroad. This is sick. According to this, I cannot teach foreigners about cryptography in the U.S. -- even about the open literature. This is a grotesque denial of my first amendment rights. I wonder if I should hold an open enrollment cryptography class for the sake of civil disobediance. Perry ______ MESSAGE ENDS _________________________________________ That's interesting..... My cryptology lecturer seems to have an American Mid-West accent (not Canadian - I can generally tell), and seems to be commiting the "heinous" crime of teaching such matters to mainly Australian people. He seems to be on conference somewhere overseas. Well, I hope he doesn't get arrested if he crosses any U.S. border posts. It would certainly piss me off. (For one thing, it would fuck up my syllabus :-[.) Seriously, I don't think it is an offense to teach cryptology to non-NAFTA nationals. All of the stuff is non-classified, and he seems pretty aware of the legal issue of cryptology. That is, he wouldn't do anything that he could be nabbed for (discounting any warped interprepation of the legal statutes...;-( .) ======================================================= | Peter Murphy. <pkm(a)maths.uq.oz.au>. Department of | | Mathematics - University of Queensland, Australia. | ------------------------------------------------------- | "What will you do? What will you do? When a hundred | | thousand Morriseys come rushing over the hill?" | | - Mr. Floppy. | =======================================================

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PGP.....
by lile＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The MBone session "Cyberstation:audio feed" is going to have Jeffrey Schiller talk about the new public PGP V2.5 release.... Cygnus has a mbone connection.... -lile ps. You can also see info at http://www.media.org/pgp.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Lile Elam | "Remember... No matter where you go, there you are." lile(a)netcom.com | Un*x Admin / Artist | Buckaroo Banzai ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Marked_Money
by remailer＠merde.dis.org 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Is there a way of marking digital coins, so the depositor can be identified?

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MBone - where to get the software...
by lile＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi folks, You need to get software to see the MBone encapsulated packets. You will also need a tunnel to your site (and you might already have one). So where to get the software... I am looking for it on a ftp site but have not found it. Some of the program names are sd (for session director) vat wb ( for whiteboarding) nv Hey! I just heard from van Jacobson. He wrote alot of this software... >From van(a)ee.lbl.gov Thu May 5 18:12 PDT 1994 To: Lile.Elam@Eng (Lile Elam) Subject: Re: mbone software... Date: Thu, 05 May 94 18:13:30 PDT From: Van Jacobson <van(a)ee.lbl.gov> Content-Type: text Content-Length: 218 The audio (vat), whiteboard (wb) & session directory (sd) tools are on ftp.ee.lbl.gov in conferencing/{vat,wb,sd}/*. The most widely used video tool (nv) is available on parcftp.xerox.com in pub/net-research. - Van Cygnus has a tunnel and so does Sun. I wish I could help more. I am still awaiting the PGP - Jeff broadcast. -lile ps. If you do get it up, the session is "Cyberstation: audio feed" ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Lile Elam | "Remember... No matter where you go, there you are." lile(a)netcom.com | Un*x Admin / Artist | Buckaroo Banzai ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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The MBone talk....
by lile＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

You are not going to beleave this, but I missed it!!!! Argh!!!!!!! I had run down the hall to tell someone about it and once we got it up (which was only a few minutes) Jeff had already spoken... I heard from Van that Jeff Schiller just read the text that the MIT legal gave him and that is the same text that is on the www.media.org web server... So, wonder why there is so much darkness about this release... Why can't they just be up front with what it is and what's goin on? hum......... -lile ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Lile Elam | "Remember... No matter where you go, there you are." lile(a)netcom.com | Un*x Admin / Artist | Buckaroo Banzai ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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No Subject
by anonymous＠extropia.wimsey.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hello everyone! This is a preliminary document which I hope will stir discussion. I didn't write it in order to dictate rules to anyone, so please don't flame me. Hopefully the members of the list will supply lots of feedback! -Lady Ada - ---------------------------------------------------------- Introducting The Cypherpunk Standard For Encrypted Phones (CSEP) Purpose: Encryption software is a form of communication tool. Like other communication systems, it is useless without someone to talk to who shares the same protocol. It appears likely that various forms of encrypted phones will spring up in the near future, ranging from PC and SoundBlaster-based software to simple hardware phones. Now is the time for us to agree on protocols, so that all cypherpunk-built phones can talk to each other. Disclaimer: "But," you say, "Phil Z. is already working on VoicePGP. Why not wait until he releases it and let that be the standard?" Well, I'm not trying to undercut Phil, and I certainly hope that we will be incorporating his protocols into a future version. But I don't think we should let a single product drive all future design. Let's think about the future now. Isn't it better to hash out potential problems in a public forum? Basic Standard - -------------- - -- Diffie-Hellman for key exchange - -- Triple DES for data encryption - -- RSA for digital signatures/identity verification Rationale: Unlike encryption protocols designed for email, a phone system will need to exchange public keys bidirectonally at the beginning of every call, and the existance of an insecure two-directional link can be assumed. Diffie-Hellman is perfect for this application. The alternative, RSA, would require either generation of new keypairs at call time, which is very slow, or the long-term association of a keypair with a specific phone, which provides no benefit to the user and opens a possible path of attack (though not a major one) to eavesdroppers. Also, the patent on Diffie-Hellman expires in 1997, well before the 2000 expiration date of RSA. The information available to me appears to indicate that Triple DES is not significantly more vulnerable than IDEA or other popular algorithms, and it has the advantage of not being patented. I would like to see this standard keep possible future commercialization in mind. I suggest that the TDES implementation should use three different independent keys. IDEA might be offered as an option for those who prefer it. Compression - ----------- It's probably wise to standardize on a particular compression scheme. I have no opinions on this subject and welcome input. The most important feature is speed, not efficiency of compression. Other Features Required for Secure Phones - ----------------------------------------- Each phone shall have a button (hard or soft) which can be pressed by the caller at any time. Pressing it will cause a new TDES key to be generated and exchanged. [Should it generate a new n and g for D-H, or just create a new x and demand a new Y?] Paranoid users can press this button every few seconds if they wish. (In my humble opinion, even a single-DES phone is quite secure if it has this feature.) Other possible options - ---------------------- In some cases it may be desirable to confirm that the call recipient is really the person you wish to speak to. This could be implemented by allowing the phone to store RSA private keys (one for each user) and public keys (to test for other users). These signature keys should be independent of the encryption keys. The phone would require the user to enter a code [of what length?] which would act like the passphrase of PGP, preventing anyone from impersonating another user even if the would-be impersonator had access to the victim's key and phone. Control Codes - ------------- A number of control codes are needed for commands passing between the two phones. Not only the definitions of the codes but the values must be agreed upon by all users. Each of these will be associated with a defined packet that contains the appropriate data. GENNEWKEY [send x, request Y] DATA [send actual packet of data, request ACK] DATAACK [acknowledge data packet with checksum] - -------------------------------------------------------- OK, I admit it, this is pretty minimal, but hey, it's a beginning. Please send comments to the list. Phil Z, if you're out there reading this, I'd particularly like your input. -Lady Ada -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.3a iQCVAgUBLclivqXNQdJx1hMZAQGq2wP/fcq5gp8unZhy/cog3jpdI8wA3hJORzME ul4qdnu5dOP7ON3LmlsWPeymUlagI1oUtJOUxb5LQ9lAlQMWv7u3TJDj3tqftcu3 il8fVmdIxrf8FYDbhs5GppCcfsMaz2/ervsw9cICspFPQJOKTOWzzTMuUYyoqcYa hWH/OJhMmPw= =coxy -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Anybody else see eye-to-eye with Connie Chung tonight?
by rjc＠gnu.ai.mit.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

They had a segment on a "digital stalker" on Prodigy. Basically, a guy who kept getting anonymous Prodigy accounts with fake credit cards and then used the accounts to harass people almost like Detweiler. The reporter's attitude was disturbing however. His attitude almost seemed to be that Prodigy should read each and every private message to protect users from harassment. The whole segment is a foreshadow of how society will react when anonymous remailing becomes widespread. One more thing. The narrator seemed to imply that what we know as "flaming" should be controlled. For instance, the phrase "check your thorazine dosage" could be viewed as digital harrasment. It's a brave new world out there. Coming to your local cyberspace soon. -ray

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List Deletion
by broitman＠koala.bu.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

How does one get removed from this mailing list? Please respond privately...so not to clutter up the conf. -jZb

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Re: Why Digital Cash is Not Being Used
by Blanc Weber 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Just thinking: since it keeps being repeated that it is a mistake to think of digital cash as currency, rather than a mere transaction mechanism, then it should not be called "cash", as this does not describe what it is. Then it would not be so easy to think in those terms. Digital Exchange Digital Transactions Digital Transfers Digital Fungi (bility) Blanc

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Lady Ada's Cryptophone
by Hal 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Lady Ada writes: > - -- Diffie-Hellman for key exchange > - -- Triple DES for data encryption > - -- RSA for digital signatures/identity verification > > Rationale: > Unlike encryption protocols designed for email, > a phone system will need to exchange public keys > bidirectonally at the beginning of every call, and > the existance of an insecure two-directional link can > be assumed. Diffie-Hellman is perfect for this application. > The alternative, RSA, would require either generation of > new keypairs at call time, which is very slow, or the Diffie-Hellman can be quite slow as well, depending on the size of the exponents. It involves calculating x**y, twice, where x and y are about 512 to 1024 bits. Some variants have the exponent yl be smaller, around 140 bits, but if strong primes are used for the modulus the exponent will be large like this. And the Chinese Remainder Theorem speedup used by PGP when RSA signing would not be applicable here. So calculating a DH key exchange could take many times longer than an RSA signature by PGP. This takes about fifteen seconds on my old PC; doing a DH key exchange might take a minute. > Each phone shall have a button (hard or soft) > which can be pressed by the caller at any time. Pressing > it will cause a new TDES key to be generated and exchanged. > [Should it generate a new n and g for D-H, or just create > a new x and demand a new Y?] Paranoid users can press > this button every few seconds if they wish. (In my > humble opinion, even a single-DES phone is quite secure > if it has this feature.) It might be possible to compute the DH in the background while the conversation is going on, but if the computer is also compressing, uncompressing, encrypting and decrypting at the same time, that's not going to be easy.

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Re: Marked_Money
by Hal 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: Matthew J Ghio <mg5n+(a)andrew.cmu.edu> > > Is there a way of marking digital coins, so the depositor > > can be identified? > > Only if the depositor marks them as such. The depositor generates the > coin, and gives it to the bank to sign it. The bank signs it in > exchange for another valid signed token. The bank can't alter it in any > way, the bank can only sign it. It's not the depositor who generates the coin, it's the withdrawer. Generally, he will be able to, in effect, "mark" the coin so that when it is deposited at the bank (by whomever he paid it to) the bank will be able to recognize that cash (because the withdrawer told the bank what the numbers were). However, with digital cash, it may be possible for the depositor to be anonymous and deposit the cash without being identified, so that even though the cash is recognized it does not necessarily reveal the depositor. Hal

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otp
by nobody＠shell.portal.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

unicorn(a)access.digex.net says, Un> Is there a mac version? What is offered is the otp.c source and some documentation. It should compile easily on most computer platforms. The output of the program must be run through the TeX typesetting program, and LaTeX, which are freely available. If you wish to do a Macintosh version, I'll refund half your signed contribution. (Is there enough of a money supply out there, that 12 tokens is a reasonable number? i.e.: 2 each from 6 people or whatever.) Derek Atkins <warlord(a)ATHENA.MIT.EDU> says, DA> In the immortal words of a famous vulcan, the needs of the many DA> outweigh the wants of the few. >From _Mein Kampf_: "the interests of the state outweigh the needs of the individual". .. PGP 2.6 key available on request

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BANK: quite a bit of interest.
by Matt Thomlinson 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I've had quite a few people ask for instructions for retreiving the ghostmarks I promised. Good to see that more people are getting involved. I'm more than willing to help people get going using the magic money implementations. I've just paid the winner of the sonics/nuggets pool. I'm offering 15 more ghostmarks to the person most closely guessing the spread of the sonics/nuggets game 5 on saturday. (as a reference, the winner this time was only within 14 points of the spread!) You need not have your client installed to enter the pool. I have a feeling that within the next few weeks we're going to see more and more items available via ghostmarks/tacky tokens/bakuins. Get set up now so you can participate later. Email for info. mt Matt Thomlinson University of Washington, Seattle, Washington. phone: (206) 548-9804 Check my home page -- ftp://ftp.u.washington.edu/public/phantom/home.html PGP 2.2 key available via email, or finger phantom(a)hardy.u.washington.edu

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Bunch of Clueless Idiots
by lassie!jim%lassie＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I see nobody mentioned the infringment of the second amendment by the assault weapons ban. These weapons cause 8.4% of the mortal wounds in commission of crime. Another piece of the constitution falls. Gee, what article of the constitution protects the right to cryptography? What are you going to do when they take it away from you. Probly nothing. The avereage person is definatly not as cool about cryptoghraphy as you are. But then again they probly are not as clickish as you are. You and your FTP site on Internet. Wow everyone knows about that. If they can not figure it out fuck em'. They are a "NEWBIE". You my friend are the ASSHOlE. To distribute to the masses is strenghth, not hiding behind some discussion of tackey dollars. Personly I think YOU are too stupid (OHHH I can program a computer) and lack the social skills to distribute crypto software to the masses. Any law probly would have a grandfather clause. Oh you say your grandfather died three years ago and you are working on revision X.YYY.Z of your latest greatest crypto software to worry about distribution. YOU PEOPLE ARE FOOLS AND HAVE TO MUCH SELF IMPORTANCE IN YOUR SMALL LITTLE HEADS, NOTHING EXISTS OF OF INTERNET! WRONG THE REAL WORLD DOES!!! BY NOT DISTRIBUTING TO THE MASSES YOU WILL LOSE (oh you can ftp to toilet.flush /urinal/cookies/). WHEN THEY TAKE YOUR PRESIOS CRYPTO AWAY, THEY WILL TAKE AWAY YOUR FIRST AMMENDMENT RIGHTS. (and it serves you right). FUCK IT NEVER MIND -- * Spelling errors are intentional and international * Jim Nalbandian netcomsv!lassie!jim%lassie(a)netcom.com Tempe, Arizona, USA N7SZS(a)K7BUC.AZ.US.NA No free man shall ever be de-barred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain there right to keep and bear arms is as a last resort to protect themselves against tyranny in government. <-------- Thomas Jefferson --

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No Subject
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- A couple of problems have arisen with my code marketing venture. Which is all to the good, of course, as the point of the exercise is to turn up these problems. Firstly, it seems that the coins I receive will contain something akin to a serial number, so that just recording the byte sequence upon issuance of the coin, and comparing with the bank receipts, would be sufficient to establish the origin of the coin. Since a bank deposit is normally communicated to a real email address, then the depositor can be identified. This being the case, use of a pool for receiving bank statements seems to be the safest way to go. The other problem is conversion from one currency (Ghostmarks) into another (Tacky Tokens). Here is a business opportunity for someone: exchange currencies for profit. Once again, a pool seems to be the best way to issue the exchanged money. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.3a iQCcAgUBLcnf/Lhnz857T+PFAQFXrwQ2NZTiE9spBf364VRvW37NwW+6aogNLjGi rPR89ve0oJEfBoI0EQl7ubHiTflttI+/6sjD++vHWKO1+FFhOXe0MDomYcbJy1QG olpnDTPC4412s546IXwVZsPiqCg9Dcxs5iz+dXalh9RrF9WwiY2YOjS+898FvoDg x6CgwPSbmiZcRx9G8Ou5 =g9jr -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Bunch of Clueless Idiots
by Black Unicorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-> I see nobody mentioned the infringment of the second amendment by the assault weapons ban. [Dribble and CAPS deleted] YOU PEOPLE ARE FOOLS AND HAVE TO MUCH SELF IMPORTANCE IN YOUR SMALL LITTLE HEADS, NOTHING EXISTS OF OF INTERNET! WRONG THE REAL WORLD DOES!!! BY NOT DISTRIBUTING TO THE MASSES YOU WILL LOSE (oh you can ftp to toilet.flush /urinal/cookies/). WHEN THEY TAKE YOUR PRESIOS CRYPTO AWAY, THEY WILL TAKE AWAY YOUR FIRST AMMENDMENT RIGHTS. (and it serves you right). FUCK IT NEVER MIND <- I'll beat Perry to it. Interesting, but not about crypto, or the politics of crypto. Take it to alt.flame. -uni- (Dark)

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VMS Version of PGP
by NetSurfer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I have a friend who asked me where to get a copy of PGP for VMS. Is there such a version, and where is it available from? Thanks! -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.4 mQBNAi2Ig+EAAAECALImsR18LE9I6NKICf8TVhbV6yJgF95ynGHnWnNo1ERfdqzk Zl3Icl2N5klNM3KQ9zM3uN/z55smi2QOiD3hL80ABRO0L0phbWVzIEQuIFdpbHNv biA8amR3aWxzb25AZ29sZC5jaGVtLmhhd2FpaS5lZHU+ =JTj1 -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- ................................ . == = = James D. Wilson. . " " " P. O. Box 15432............................. . " " /\ " Honolulu, HI 96830-5432......Fr. Excelsior........ . \" "/ \" jdwilson(a)gold.chem.hawaii.edu.FRC/FAM/AASR/GWB/OTO. ...................................................................

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WinPGP location.
by GRABOW_GEOFFREY＠tandem.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

jdwilson(a)gold.chem.hawaii.edu writes: > Where can I find WinPGP? You should be able to ftp WinPGP 1.0 from oak.oakland.edu//pub/msdos/windows3/WinPGP10.ZIP you'll love it!!! G.C.G. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | Geoffrey C. Grabow | "What we demand are rigidly defined | | Oyster Bay, New York | areas of doubt and uncertainty!" | | | -------------------- | | grabow_geoffrey(a)tandem.com | Clipper, SkipJack & Digital Telephony | | | JUST SAY NO!!! | |----------------------------------------------------------------------| | PGP fingerprint = C9 95 0F C4 E9 DD 8E 73 DD 99 4E F5 EB 7A B6 1D | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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(fwd) What the IRS is up to
by catalyst-remailer＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

---------forwarded message---------

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Re: Cypherpunks change bytes!
by lile＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Wouldn't it be great if we could just get rid of software patents? -lile

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IRS plans
by nobody＠shell.portal.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>From: johnl(a)iecc.com (John R Levine) >Newsgroups: comp.society.privacy >Subject: What the IRS is up to Here's some excerpts from a speech by Coleta Brueck, Project Manager, Document Processing system, at the Internal Revenue Service, that she gave at the Computer Press Association Awards luncheon in New York on April 15th. I was at the lunch, but the transcript of the speech just arrived today. The ellipses are mine, but I think I'm not distorting what she said. She started by explaining that their current systems are functionally based on punch card systems from the 1950s, and they want to get more stuff on-line so that when you call with a question, the person at the IRS can retrieve a copy of your records while you're still on the phone. But then: "We should be able to provide you on-line access to that information. ... You will have the availability to know what your current account information is, very much like if most of us who have an American Express Card, you can call -- you don't really know where that 800 number goes, but what you do know is when that person answers your call, they have your complete account information. ... They can give you information on your account, they can update your account, or they can provide you futuristic looks into your account as to where you might be next year, even, for filing tax returns. We've often talked about, and this is the terminology that I used when I was in on a task group, we've talked about the "golden eagle" return. This is the golden -- or gold American Express Card return. At the end of each year, if you have an American Express Card, you get a gold account summary of what you've done for the year. ... Basically, what I say is that if I know what you've made during the year, if I know what your withholding is, if I know what your spending pattern is, I should be able to generate for you a tax return so that I only come to you and tell you, 'This is what I think you should file for the next year, and if you agree to that, then don't bother sending me a piece of paper.' ... But I am an excellent advocate of return-free filing. We know everything about you that we need to know. Your employer tells us everything about you that we need to know. Your activity records on your credit cards tell us everything about you that we need to know. Through interface with Social Security, with the DMV, with your banking institutions, we really have a lot of information, so why would you, at the end of the year or on April 15th, today, do we ask the post office to encumber themselves with massive numbers of people out there, picking up pieves of paper that you are required to file? ... We could literally file a return for you. This is the future that we'd like to go to." Lest there be any doubt, she was entirely serious, and she clearly expected that that we'd all think this is as wonderful as she does. Regards, John Levine, johnl(a)iecc.com, jlevine(a)delphi.com, 1037498(a)mcimail.com

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Keyserver service outage (fwd)
by lassie!jim%lassie＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

FORWARDED MAIL ------- From: netcomsv.netcom.com!ah.com!hughes (Eric Hughes) Date: 05 May 94 Originally To: toad.com!cypherpunks >And since the RSA and IDEA patents aren't valid in Europe, this >is 100% kosher. You guys use MIT-PGP and we'll use free pgp 2.5 IDEA is an international patent, from ETH in Switzerland. Eric What about the idiots that do not know and FTP from STP? -- * Spelling errors are intentional and international * Jim Nalbandian netcomsv!lassie!jim%lassie(a)netcom.com Tempe, Arizona, USA N7SZS(a)K7BUC.AZ.US.NA No free man shall ever be de-barred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain there right to keep and bear arms is as a last resort to protect themselves against tyranny in government. <-------- Thomas Jefferson --

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