December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Another prong in the attack atainst Clipper.
by GRABOW_GEOFFREY＠tandem.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

------------ TEXT ATTACHMENT -------- SENT 03-20-94 FROM GRABOW_GEOFFREY @LONGIS Greetings c'punks. Regarding the discussions at the physical meeting, I'm in the progress of compiling a list of BBSs in my area. I plan to walpaper 'em with a letter about Clipper. The reason for this is that most average "hacks" have little or no information about Clipper. When I chatted with some folks on the BBSs, many of them didn't know what I was talking about. The attack I'm forming uses public awareness. We need to educate Joe 6-Pack. If I tell 100 people, I would hope that 3 of them would become concerned. To this end, I'm asking for suggestions for a letter (no more than 1000 words 'cause people too lazy to read a lot) that explains in J.6. terms what Clipper is and why it is a thing to be avoided. When I get something together, I'll post it for corrections and/or enhancements. Then, if everybody on this list posts it on 5 other places, we might actually get somewhere. I look forward to hearing from y'all, G.C.G. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | Geoffrey C. Grabow | "What we demand are rigidly defined | | Oyster Bay, New York | areas of doubt and uncertainty!" | | | -------------------- | | grabow_geoffrey(a)tandem.com | Clipper, SkipJack & Digital Telephony | | | JUST SAY NO!!! | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.3a mQCNAiz/qhsAAAEEAN4QxTfSBoeP/FCiaX0/KmCkl6BcKRa1PeoP6ZlPWydg1nOx yZAk8pIdgiGxxgiMBMsqD+SrU+Sl1Fx1AdJ14HJsBp1V6G4rBTZqvFpbNPCfrQfz K/Apg+7bBpi5Qv+sQ0TWIy38zp/laArgcdUOpE4oE2UOUBVEtYvm47K2P+i5AAUR tC9HZW9mZnJleSBDLiBHcmFib3cgPGdyYWJvd19nZW9mZnJleUB0YW5kZW0uY29t Pg== =2NWi -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

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Two more anon.penet.fi bounces
by Jason Zions 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

------- Forwarded Messages Return-Path: daemon(a)anon.penet.fi Return-Path: <daemon(a)anon.penet.fi> Received: from hal.com (hal-backbone) by latte.hal.com (4.1/SMI-4.1.2) id AA14635; Fri, 18 Mar 94 21:18:38 CST Received: from anon.penet.fi by hal.com (4.1/SMI-4.1.1) id AA26106; Fri, 18 Mar 94 19:16:47 PST Received: by anon.penet.fi (5.67/1.35) id AA00125; Sat, 19 Mar 94 04:14:49 +0200 Date: Sat, 19 Mar 94 04:14:49 +0200 From: daemon(a)anon.penet.fi Message-Id: <9403190214.AA00125(a)anon.penet.fi> To: jazz(a)hal.com Subject: Anonymous service rejected your mail. You, jazz(a)hal.com, have requested mail forwarding to na69591. This was rejected, as the user is unknown. Either the id has never been allocated, or the id has been removed at the request of the user. ------- End of Forwarded Messages

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Re: EFF gun-shy of legally employing PGP (fwd)
by Harry Shapiro Hawk 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

------ From: Eric Hughes, Mon, Mar 21, 1994 ------ > > 3) EFF is a Mac shop, but our licensed copy of Viacrypt doesn't run on the > > Mac. > MacRIPEM is both easy to use and runs on a Mac. There may be other Eric Apple System 7 Pro comes with Digital Sig. capability. It may not be as secure as PGP, but it would be a good first step. /hawk Harry Shapiro Hawk Manager of Computer Services Warwick Baker & Fiore habs(a)uucp.warwick.com

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Re: anti-security measures
by lefty＠apple.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>I need to convince someone of their need for security. If anyone out there >could send me a good trojan program or direct me to somewhere where I can find >code or how to code one I would appreciate it. Other security buster measures >would also be nice. :) Thanks. Heh. I need to convince someone of their need for physical security. If anyone out there could supply me with several pounds of C4, a high-powered rifle, and a large caliber handgun, I'd appreciate it. Other lethal weapons would also be nice. Thanks. -- Lefty (lefty(a)apple.com) C:.M:.C:., D:.O:.D:.

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Re: spyproofing your house/work building
by lefty＠apple.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Wayne Q Jones excretes: > >With FLIR you have SLIR OTH UV LOW LIGHT from the military (Billy boy >is itching to deploy here in the good ole USA). Remote Sensing RADAR SONAR >Stealth RADAr, Remote Imaging SYStems all kinds of goodies coming home. >TO do what..fight crime..Yeah right. I remember law and order Nixon. > Cryptography is the least of your problems. A high tech military is >coming home and Billy wants to put them to use on our streets..>!!! >He just loves gadgets. Dissent may become passse' in America. Stupidity, on the other hand, is _always_ in style, eh, Wayne? Whyncha see whether you can locate a second neuron up in that vast, echoing space? You might get better results rubbing two of 'em together. And, hey, if you're going to go out, don't forget your tinfoil hat! The alien radio control beams are pretty thick out there today. -- Lefty (lefty(a)apple.com) C:.M:.C:., D:.O:.D:.

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RE: How to control Internet? Buy it!
by Blanc Weber 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I'm having a nightmare about a Microsoft-like domination of global communications, complete with SPA police, etc. ................................. Unlike the government, Microsoft and McCaw Cellular both depend upon a customer-driven market for their acceptance. They must convince their customers that they are better than the competition in providing a similar service; they must adjust this service to the customer's requests & preferences or lose the account. Blanc

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PGP BBS site
by Stanton McCandlish 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Need to refer someone (US citizen, currently in the US) to a BBS that is carrying the current PGP. Any pointers? He's in Edgewater FL, but is willing to call LD to get it. No net access. Thanks.

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No Subject
by cowen＠glia.biostr.washington.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

in response to the post about the joe-six-pack worry level if they get clipper int he phone next they will have it in the fax's the TV is next, seeing that most of it in 10 years will go over smart lines to give you more choices, there was a 10,000 home test in broklyn just last year, the NSA and other agencies won't give up the opptunity to easily, in fact they might just go around " those dumb congressmen" if the chip and the means to make it are banded by law. my financee who hearing me talk about this list, and hte clipper has gone out and told others in a laymens term,, " hey did you know the gov't is trying to put a chip in all new fones that could make it possible for hte police to just listen in on your talks to others. just by pressing a few keys" though it is not to acurate, it gets the point across to joe and jill making them wonder at what they are saying and who might be listening.. wonder what it all will bring in 20 years?? charles the monster maker

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CLIPPER COMPROMISED?
by Brian D Williams 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- For anyone interested: >_____ begin fwd ___________ > >CLIPPER COMPROMISED? "Security Insider Report," a monthly >newsletter published in Seminole, Fla., has reported that >government officials are seeking to determine whether former CIA >employee and alleged traitor Aldrich Ames may have sold >information to the Russians about the government's secret >key-escrow technology used in Clipper Chip chipsets and Capstone >Tessera cards. The secret key-escrow technology, dubbed >Skipjack, can be used to encrypt network voice and data. _____ end _________________ Security Insider Report is published by Interpact press 11511 Pine St. N. Seminole, Fl 34642 Phone 813.393.6600 Fax 813.393.6361 The managing editor is none other than computer security professional, privacy advocate, and author of TERMINAL COMPROMISE, Winn Schwartau. Winn is a highly sought after lecturer on computer security matters, and is notorious for "Inside" contacts. It is said the NSA scoured it's ranks after TERMINAL COMPROMISE came out. T.C. was released as the first Internet novel (its in softcover as well) and should be widely available. He is supposed to be a releasing a new book soon (it may already be out) titled INFORMATION WARFARE. Having had the pleasure of meeting and talking at length with Winn, I am of the opinion that he may be on to something here. Brian Williams Extropian Cypherpatriot "Cryptocosmology: Sufficently advanced comunication is indistinguishable from noise." --Steve Witham -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.3a iQCVAgUBLY3ul9CcBnAsu2t1AQG0DAQAiDhW/QAh75/YDgpPsGV2+k5oISLltaoh 2NfhX+kBK5j/SYCM7jWuWSDmdFV5p0V/D+TnG153PH04RrVulHx3my3mJies9Lrs uYNlmn5Qw19ig5hbbG9d72DRbKoM5pOuTBCe54h1KWu28Q6OJykIGKVIVH7YRcpl C4+gonUnzPA= =3Iqw -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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No Subject
by cowen＠glia.biostr.washington.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

in response to rishab(a)dxm.ernet.in about jeo-six-pack and the general public those folks, are the ones that could make an outcry that would bring to light the NSA trying to hoodwink us all. though they might not have much power as individuals, take any group in mass, and you get power might not be a controlable power, but that is what you got. i would rather inform as many people about the things i read on this list as just set at home and say, "don 't bother they'll never understand it"" apathy of any kind can kill you and will stunt your creative growth. charles the monster maker

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Re: US Patent & Trademark Office Web server online
by Carl Malamud 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

For the patents, try: http://town.hall.org/ wais://town.hall.org:210/patent We have all the 1994 Full Text/APS Feed up and running. Carl Malamud

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Parker on Clipper
by moulton＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In the 21-Mar-94 issue of Computerworld p.4 the following statment is attributed to Donn Parker of SRI, "We have to make strong, nonescrow encryption a crime". I do not remember Parker making a statement like this previously, is this a new position for Parker or is my memory going bad? Fred

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RE: PGP BBS site
by James Still 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>Need to refer someone (US citizen, currently in the US) to a BBS that is >carrying the current PGP. Any pointers? He's in Edgewater FL, but is >willing to call LD to get it. No net access. Thanks. For all of his encryption needs on the first call I'd recommend the Hieroglyphic Voodoo Machine BBS at +1 303 443 2457 (V.32bis N81) Files in the free files area include: PGP23A.ZIP 221K Pretty Good Privacy (PGP) ver 2.3a encryption software PGP23SRC.ZIP 505K 'C' source code for PGP ver 2.3a OLX21.ZIP 223K Offline Xpress mail door reader/responser for Tomcat ALLFILES.ZIP 13K Listing of all files available on the HVM - updated daily PGPCONF.ZIP 0K Read this before uploading your PGP key to the repository MACPGP23.HQX 422K macpgp2.3.cpt.hqx was the original filename. Decode w/BinHex PGPFAQ.ZIP 56K Latest PGP FAQ, posted to the Net 15 Jan '94. PGPSHE30.ZIP 71K PGPShell ver 3.0 menu/mouse shell for PGP (Jan 94) PGP23OS2.ZIP 329K PGP 2.3a for OS/2. SECDR13A.ZIP 87K Secure Drive 1.3a - IDEA encrypted floppies or HD partition. Give 'em a call 24-7... +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ still@ | The novelist Philip Roth says that there are only 60,000 kailua | serious readers in the United States. And every twenty colorado | years that number is halved. I'm luv [sic] over this place. edu | PGP Public Key = 4E4937 = AD 29 BE 28 5D 2B 77 BE F6 85 08 45 B6 2D 0B 36

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How to control the Internet.
by Bradley W. Dolan 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>From: Blanc Weber <blancw(a)microsoft.com> >To: bdolan(a)well.sf.ca.us >Date: Mon, 21 Mar 94 09:49:56 PST >Subject: RE: How to control Internet? Buy it! >Cc: cypherpunks(a)toad.com >Status: R >>I'm having a nightmare about a Microsoft-like domination of global >>communications, complete with SPA police, etc. >>................................. >Unlike the government, Microsoft and McCaw Cellular both depend upon a >customer-driven market for their acceptance. They must convince their >customers that they are better than the competition in providing a >similar service; they must adjust this service to the customer's >requests & preferences or lose the account. >Blanc That's the way it's supposed to be. What happens in practice - not specifically with Microsoft or McCaw [I don't want to hear from the platoons of lawyers. ;-)] - is that the big guys run down to Washington, pull a few strings, make a few contributions, and ask the government to use its resources and force to ensure that the corporate-desired outcome results. I remember when patents and copyrights were _privileges_ granted to encourage creativity and there was no such thing as "intellectual _property_". I remember a time when the idea of a royalty-tax on blank tapes to pay for presumed copyright infringement was regarded as crazy. bdolan(a)well.sf.ca.us

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No Subject
by nobody＠shell.portal.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I've heard a rumour that the British government has banned use of encryption on telephone lines as part of its campaign against 'Computer Pornography'. Does anyone know if this is true, and if so, do they have any more details ?

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Coming Police State
by Duncan Frissell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

A late response to: THE COMING POLICE STATE -- by Tim May >the National Information Infrastructure, the NII, has the >potential for further concentrating and regulating the presently >anarchic networks. Driver's licenses for the information highway? >Learner's permits? Revoked licenses for "hurtful speech" and other >thoughtcrimes? I don't think this centralization is likely. Since all of the future network plans call for the continued existence of private networks (now exempt from the DTI proposal) and what we can call "telephone" service (POTS), and since bandwidth will be so cheap, and since the operators will continue to want revenue, anyone who likes will be able to maintain a "private" network of any size. Any future digital version of POTS can be used to set up temporary networks to link anyone to anyone (just a conference call). One can imagine that cheap bandwidth will make it possible (if necessary) to set up networks that work (over fiber) like frequency hopping and spread spectrum radio work today. Since all fiber networks are virtual anyway, how hard will it be to generate a group of data streams that are meaningless unless they are combined in exactly the right way and unreadable without key material even if an opponent manages to combine them. Stego possibilities here. >-- Digital Telephony II for easy access to _all_ communications >channels. If this becomes law, expect all equipment makers to add >wiretapping capabilities. All operating system makers may have to add tap >points to allow government access (so much for "secure operating >systems," such as Norm Hardy and others are working on). Except for operating systems developed in other countries and data streams that pass through other countries. Even if the OECD cuts a deal there are hundreds of countries and the DTI is not supposed to apply to private networks in any case. Also note that the "new" "improved" DTI calls for the Federales to *pay* for the DTI hardware (and software?). This was a sop to industry. If they aren't careful, they could end up paying for a lot of junk. What is the upper bound of all the hardware/software in the known universe that is arguably included under DTI? >-- Clipper and its Big Brethren for easy access to the contents of >files. The State will use its power to enforce standards, control >exports, and punish corporations so as to ensure competitors do not >arise. "IBM will use its power to enforce standards..." Not as easy as it used to be. Say, wasn't the (then) Bureau of Standards supposed to release its updated replacement standard for DES in September, 1990 or something. Whatever happened to that deadline. Standards change so fast now and will change faster in the future that it is hard enough for entrepreneurial firms to keep up. >-- The likely criminalization (via civil forfeiture, a la the Drug War) >of unapproved crypto alternatives. That will be a rough one politically. They drew back a bloody stump the last time they floated DTI. H.R. 6 on national teacher certification standards disappeared under a wave of net-generated attacks by home schoolers. Has legal problems as well. It took many years to get anti drug legislation in place. They don't have too many years available. How much enforcement activity can we expect. Federal prosecutions cost 50K+ each. With absolutely no showing of damage (from casual crypto "users") normal prosecutorial cost/benefit calculations would suggest not much activity. Particularly since they have gotten burned when taking us on (Steve Jackson Games). >Steven Levy will be at the Saturday meeting, preparing both an article on >these issues, and a book for future publication (being an optimist, even >I don't believe he'll be barred from publishing such a book). This hasn't been tried since The Progressive and The Secret of the Hydrogen Bomb. No risk. Likewise, no risk from speech codes. The federal courts have overturned all that are unconnected with employment. >- Private networks, like Little Garden, offer greater robustness against >intrusions by regulatory authorities. The more of these ad hoc, anarchic >nets, the less chance the State will have of (somehow) nationalizing or >otherwise taking control of them. Especially if nodes are outside the >U.S. Anyone have info on private network activity? >- Several of us have expressed some serious interest in leaving the U.S., >for various reasons. I am one of these folks. Many issues here, but >creating more offshore locales for Cypherpunks activity, with good >connections to other Nets, lots of encryption, etc., will be helpful. >(Compiling a kind of "Cyberspace Retirement Places Rated" database is one >project I am thinking of taking on after I finish the Cypherpunks FAQ. >Lists of various places, their local laws and policies, tax situation, >extradition treaties with the main police states, Net connections, etc. >Maybe even some R&D trips down to the Caymans, Turks and Caicos Islands, >Belize, etc. Contact me if interested.) Did you see the Forbes article "Flight Capital" in the Feb 28th issue? It covers expatriation as the ultimate tax planning device. Note that if your life revolves around the Net, you can expatriate yourself without even leaving "home." Most of the offshore locations currently have lousy network connections (except Switzerland of course). The Channel Islands and the Isle of Man have ISDN. The Caribbean is spotty. Hong Kong is pretty good (telecommunications wise). Once you expatriate yourself, of course, you can live in various European countries with good telcoms as long as you don't spend too much time per year in each one. >Some on this list (sometimes me, too) say "We've already won." Duncan >Frissell and Sandy Sandfort often point out just how unenforceable the >existing laws are, how few people comply with the tax laws, and how the >internationalization of commerce has made national borders into permeable >membranes. As I like to say, in my .sig, "National borders are just speed >bumps on the information highway." Guilty as charged. Think about it this way: 1) Suppose no one uses encryption or remailers but just uses whatever networks are in existence NII or whatever. (Recall that lack of funds will prevent the Federales from *paying* for the NII - "He who doesn't pay the piper has a much harder time calling the tune.") 2) Americans and foreigners and everyone all equidistant from each other. Cheap one-to-one, one-to-many, and the new category many-to-many communications. Transaction costs (for info exchange) dropping towards the limit of $0. (The Economist estimates the cost of supplying one transatlantic telephone call at 2 cents/minute with current technology. AT&T charges me 59 cents/minute on the weekends to London. Room for deep cuts.) 3) Coase in the "Theory of the Firm" says that the only reason we *have* firms is transaction costs. With zero transaction costs it would make more sense for us to buy each other's services on the spot market. As transaction costs fall towards the limit of $0, average firm size will fall dramatically. 4) As the number of firms explodes (aided by the cheap creation of entities/agents on the nets, the regulatory problem becomes impossible. Note -- I can create a trust with a one page document. The situs of that trust can be anywhere in any Common Law jurisdiction. It need not be registered. Yet that trust has almost all the rights of a human being. It can buy, sell, own, enter into contracts, sue and be sued, etc. So can most of the other sorts of "legal persons" created over the years. It is possible that in the very near future there will be more "legal persons" than there are actual persons on earth. 5) Because of cheap communications and information technology, markets have become very fast moving. Not just the market for financial derivatives but even the markets for women's underwear or for toothpaste. Government attempts to control these new markets are like attempting to capture the wind in a bag. 6) Future markets linked by "free" comms and consisting of billions (yes billions!) of individual (uni=cellular) firms/entities/actors will sweep over regulatory barriers (that in any case apply only in some nations) as if they are not there. Think of Steve McQueen and "The Blob" from the late '50s. "The Blob" is the market. Try and hold it back. It's not in one place either where you can freeze it with fire extinguishers, it is all over the earth. As to the Security State controls. They can't even control drive-bys in Brownsville, how can they control billions of individual people and their trillions (quadrillions) of transactions. Even if they get loads of information about us (and foreigners, and artificial entities) they can only use a little bit of this data. They can only carry out a very few investigations and a very few prosecutions. Nothing compared to the size of Market Earth. An expensive, rigid, inefficient hierarchy just won't be able to compete. Markets are fed by willing customers/workers who go out of their way to give them money and labor. The government has to collect tribute from people who will go out of their way to minimize the amount of money/labor given up. This constrains the growth curve of coercive entities. We ain't peasants bound to the soil any more. ************* I hope to see many of you at CFP '94. I'll be in Chicago from Wednesday night until Saturday night. Leave me a note at the message center. Duncan Frissell -- "Schindler's List" shows what happens when the government has assault rifles and the people don't. --- WinQwk 2.0b#1165

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Re: Coming Police State
by Brian D Williams 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Duncan, I live in Chicago, let me know if you'd like to get together for a Pizza, cocktail, or whatever. I could also give you a place to check your mail (via telnet etc) Brian Williams Ameritech Data Center 425 w randolph Chicago Il 312.669.2373

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Re: Administrivia: Questi
by terry.smith＠canrem.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Robert A. hayden wrote |-------------------------------| >(GEEK CODE 1.0.1) GAT d- -p+(---) c++(++++) l++ u++ e+/* m++(*)@ s-/++ > n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*) |-------------------------------| Ok - I'm going to have to come out and admit that I have no idea what the geek code is and I'm dying to know.... Terry Smith - XANTH sysop - 1:259/510 CI$ 70733,3013 PGP 2.3A KEY FREQABLE AS 'KEY'. My opinions are not that of my company. But one day they WILL be! And then - the -+*WORLD*+- Bwaw ha ha !!. Read the Tick and others by NEC. Geraldo - "So, Mr. Smith, you admit you like to eat babies!" Me - "Nono - I admit I like to eat BABES!" --- * TLX v1.55 * Yeah, he seems to be the "black sheep" of the administrat

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let's help law enforcement
by Carl Ellison 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

How come people in law enforcement are calling for us crypto junkies to help them by giving up crypto (especially when that's useless, since criminals don't need us for their crypto) ? I've heard DERD and Co. ask us (me) to come up with a compromise stand. Well -- here's mine: NSA can do cryptology in secret and we won't try to pry it out of them. We'll do cryptology in public and publish it, give away code, etc. We'll be good citizens and join the local Neighborhood Watch, etc., calling the police to report lawbreaking which we witness. What more could possibly be expected of us? What better way is there to support law enforcement? - Carl

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Dallas lawyer needs consultant for privacy of international linguists
by gnu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: "Brock N. Meeks" <brock(a)well.sf.ca.us> Subject: This guy needs help John, please forward: Since I'm not an active member of Cypherpunks, I thought maybe you could post this message. It's legit and I think a worthy cause. There's an attorney in Dallas that needs help: Your help. Crypto help. His name is Albert Rochelle (214-520-0881). He contacted me after reading my article on privacy and clipper in the April issue of _Wired_ magazine. Albert's client is an international organization of linguists. They specialize in taking unwritten languages and translating them to written words. They are a clean, non-political group and they want to stay that way. Trouble is, Albert told me, there are governments, both U.S. and foreign, that want to tap this organization's files to access the "raw intelligence" that their field personnel often send in. This intelligence is nothing more than the certain problems they might be having with the in-country governments. But they don't want prying eyes to be poking into their files, using whatever they send in against other groups. Similarly, they don't want their translation notes, files, used by intelligence agencies against the people they are working with for translation. So, they want to encrypt and they need some expert help, Albert is in charge of helping them do all this, BUT HE'S A NEOPHTYE and readily admits this. He's all for privacy encryption schemes and thinks the govt. proposed Clipper standard stinks. He's willing PAY MONEY for your help and he's looking forward to hearing from anyone out there willing to help him get his organization, crypto-safe. Please give him a call, like I said, he's willing to pay for your services. Tell him I sent you. Brock Meeks reporter Communiations Daily ------- End of Forwarded Message

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Mar 12 mtg notes [long, 35K]
by M. Strata Rose 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Here are my notes on the March 12th meeting; I haven't really edited them, so they are kind of rough, but if I waited until I had time to edit them they'd never get posted. All I've done is run thrm through a spelling checker and do minimal clarification where I was typing only pieces of something. They were in Acta format, not plain text, so there are lots of tiny paragraphs that used to be outlines, the indentations still carry some of the form though. I apologize for the formatting, the mac editors are lame about saving text with layout, putting in an extra LF with the CR's and doing other lossage. And we won't even talk about getting rid of "smart quotes" (aargh); at least two major editors force you to do find/replace to get rid of them... I would be happy to save a postscript version of the document and put it up for FTP on soda. Comments, clarifications, and identifications of folks who are annotated as "??" should be sent to strata(a)fenchurch.mit.edu, not to the whole list (where I wouldn't see them anyway, since I am only on cypherpunks-announce). Apologies to the folks who didn't want 35K of notes in their mailbox, the tyranny of the vocal majority requested they be posted... :-) _Strata [Notes on Cypherpunks meeting at Cygnus, Mar 12 1994. Copyright M. Strata Rose, 1994, all rights reserved. This document may be forwarded in its entirety for personal communication but may not be quoted at length without the author's permission. Journalists wishing to use this document as source material must first contact the author.] Show-n-tell: cypherpunks digital phone project Eric Blossom shows board to connect between phone and wall, engineering prototype on Codex chip, etc 28,800 baud capable, 120db down relay; pcmcia for keys, etc 2105 xtrlr, inline devices, $12 q 1; can use as answering machine, etc; final target price under $1K Tim May says some folks in Seattle years ago got a patent on something called Phaser Phone, crypto phone, USGov used the patent to slap a classified on the technology. AT&T phone competitive price... Phil Karns made request for Applied Cryptography, ruled to be in public domain and thus exportable; the day he got that on paper he filed a second request on "is the floppy exportable?" Someone should file a CJ request for PGP download, put on floppy, write letter attesting that you got it that way, Mbone audio link Mark Horowitz & co at MIT Nathan Loofborough at ohio state market.dun-dun-noodles.?? SF cypherpunks EFF offices in DC, Dan Brown sysadm doing direct audio link to Horowitz at MIT, mixed into mbone from there control center up in BayMOO so that there's a token (a floor tile) for message-stick, one delegate per site to talk, control room has a hush feature to shut up non-delegate speakers; later on there will probably be some echos-- people will type live meeting into MOO areas Pavel runs similar setup at PARC Head count MIT 8-10 folks EFF 11 MtView 45-50 Ohio State 1 San Diego 1 Agenda Politics! almost first anniversary of clipper meeting Eric H notes that Clipper was deliberate executive branch sideswipe of separation of powers; Dorothy Denning mentions economic ploy-- using discretionary fund to purchase clippered phones w/o legislative review, creating demand & standard in one swoop We will have to involve the legislature to stop Clipper, you can"t just ask executive branch to restrain itself; we will have to restrain legislature w/judicial restraint; we probably need an amendment to enhance privacy to preclude lossage. Four main points are: comm tech crypto tech anonymity pseudonymity Mark Horowitz mentions needing to get a populist feel for pseudonymity before trying to get stuff for amendment Tim May: brought stack of books to show; how to avoid the privacy invaders: low profile getting started in the underground economy how to create a new identity the outlaws bible by ex boozy the us intelligence community by jeffrey richelson, in tradition of banfrey/banfey pub by ??B in cambridge subsidiary of harper & rowe bruce benson, the enterprise of law, (distributed legal systems workings) (how cryto anarchy might work) how to launder money how to open a swiss bank account the secret money market Juicy books! (sez Tim); the theme was Rants this time, so he wrote a rant on the coming police state; may drift into a police state not by malice but by gradual surveillance for "our own good". Example: stuff built into cars for tolls, bridges, etc; how about using Chawmean(sp?) credentials for anonymity based on payments beforehand. Linkages of other info on drivers licenses, for example health system stuff, could lead to things like diabetics being denied access to bars as incidental info comes up on age-check scan Tim mentions Cpunks is kind of stuck in 1970's secret decoder ring technology, not concentrating enough on fighting routine surveillance by "benign" agencies; Tim is not seeing any mainstream discussion of Chawm technology in American press. Worst can happen very quickly if backlash against immigrants goes into effect, or if national health plan card goes worst case. Double whammy this month: clipper goes through as if we never tried, then digital telephony II resubmitted for massive tapping and lossage. Increasingly groups will have scattered meetings, under DTII the meeting today would have to be tappable. Gilmore says Senators Leyhi and Edwards are having hearings, John, EFF, & randoms (phone, computer, civil libs folks) will be testifying. Wants to take small exception to what Tim is sayng; EFF has taken strong stance that transactional data shouldn"t be available without a real live warrant; DTII says that gov folks could get phone numbers, etc w/o even going through a court. Mentions cell phones keep your cell location even when you"re not on the phone, auto net trackers, etc, this is transactional data, this is why they are tryiing to get this into law now before people are thinking about this much. One thing came out in hearings is how much law enforcement folks are already demanding direct from phone companies (to get your bills if they"re in investigations), they get more than 100K people's phone bills and do web analysis on drug dealers, etc; source for 100K number is House report on the ECPA. One of most important parts is to protect transactional data with bureaucratic process reviewed by juidicial staff. Tim wrapping up, has one more thing to say; EFF and lot of other groups fighting for this, he in person has no faith in the govt being trustworthy, do security via obscurity and just plain don"t let the govt figure it out, have it encrypted. Query from MarkH; agrees with Tim, preaching to converted though; problems due to ignorance and apathy on part of people, people not aware of full ramifications of personal privacy. Europeans seem to be more aware. Phil Karn comes in via San Diego <Hugh announces he's on the link> Fen mentions we need both to educate and to opt in to things, that you shouldn"t be selling your info (such as ATM supermarket purchases) w/o consent and knowledge. Mark H. asks what we can do in specific; Eric Hughes says we need to set agenda and work on positioning. Constitutional Amendments AntiClipper Legislation Strata: do newspaper article on parallels between stuff here and now and stuff in Eastern europe Bill Stewart: NIST survey on privacy and tech, look for it on the net Don Hopkins: frame this as "you need your privacy to protect yourself from your neighbors" ?? : Maria Cantwell's HR 3627 export restrictioin lifting ??: Make people realize privacy tech exists ?? : NII privacy issues request for comments (Bill Stewart) Neil Rest: develop pieces of agitprop, etc get press kits and pamphlets so that when we can give them info when we GET their attention! ??: WWW page, has anyone made one, let's do a single site for lots of anti clipper, lots of tail ends in other stuff ??: takes care of small network, his responsibility is to give privacy, wants to give govt solution and make ourselves the watchmen Strata: encrypted alt group w/news service, put in time to make it juicy and fun, give folks motivation to use the tools. Tim May: agenda item on active sabotage of big brother/clipper, create anticlipper sentiment in new grads, semiotic anticlipper thingy, ?? AT&T guy: let's do executive educatioin seminars for corporate weenies on clipper, those dudes have access to the PACS Arthur Abrahms: publicy of privacy enhancing solutions to stuff like toll booth problem, popularizin them nelson baghla (sp?): come up with solution to the govt's problem that protects our privacy Gilmore: official study of crypto coming up, Herb Lin of Nat"l Research Council, needs good people to be on review board/panel Strata: NPR radio show on clipper ??: will anyone go on mcneil lehrer? Bill Stewart: stockholder resolutions for corporations good way to do propaganda and to generate publicity & opinion John Morton: journalism outreach, list of Cypherpunks reps who are willing to be contacted (is part of press kit), *do* a press kit ??: are there clipper clipping services Russ Whittker: set up speakers bureau, people willing to speak at functions about this Gilmore: deploy cryptography, put kerberos in your OS, do the usenet feed, etc Jim Warren talk: Jim Warren: AB1624 passed, round of applause learned how to use the net to pursue political advocacy and action, and to amplify political power in the hands of people woke up after reading piles of email on gov weenieness with a solution on how to do this: we all know to write letter to congresscritter; turns out letters to state (much less feds) count in certain ways individual letter, some attention form letter, less attention phone calls, logged only (counted) form letters & cards almost useless w/one exception [support/anti support for bills, treated later 3/19 _S] communications become much less interesting to legislators once they come from someone who isn"t a voter in their own district; in some district offices the staff has instructions to throw away unread stuff from people outside the district how do we persuade them with the people they DO pay attention to? (registered voters in their district) "communication from a citizen who is not identifiable as a member of a partisan group, political affiliation, or other organization, ie not a drone from somewhere like NRA, church, etc, ie something that seems to be from a private citizen rather than from a push group" (highest value) of course, let's be realistic here: PACS have mucho power Best case is Mr. Organization with a large check, but next after that is private citizen apparently writing from an individual concern. What we really want is a whole bunch of people from their own districts appearing to spontaneously write in and say "hey, don't do this" or "hey, do that". If you want to influence congress, don"t contact all of them, contact committee members, target them; "major perversion, err amendment" (his quote!) goes on in committee. [Request for] bill status documents bill's path through committees, subcommittees. Identify few members of key committees that are real decision makers who can kill the bill before it hits the floor, where they don"t dick with it much. If we can persuade their voters in their district to contact them apparently spontaneously, we have clout that exceeds lobbyists. In all jurisdictions, voter registration lists are public record and available in machine readable form; Contact folks in your own district and ask for real citizens in your own district to send real letters to a citizen in the key members" district, just tell us how many letters you are wiling to write and we"ll give you mailing labels for them and some sample letters to modify electronically to write to the folks! Modify the hell out of it, this is not a topdown authoritarian form letter it is supposed to be grass roots; please use typewriter fonts only, give folks scripts to do mailmerge stuff on their personalized form letters, idealized letters. Example: draft sample letters, inflammatory, less inflammatory, polite, post via FTP and call for effort, say I"ll provide you with names & addrs; typical district congressional is 500,000 - 600,000 with probably 250K reg voters; provide folks with scattering of names so that everyone doesn"t send their own letter to neighbors, businesses in same area (to prevent people from thinking its a scam or form letter) when I provide name & address sets I will provide name & addr of cooperating people in district of test recipients (and will tell you), so that I can find out what you"re sending and when you"re sending it, ie tell them that there are salts in the list but not who the salts are... let's also provide form letters appropriate for sending to newspapers; typical ways you can draft a letter that will almost certainly make it into editorial pages, provide forms and instructions on how to do that When I did AB1621 I wrote it [the info on the bill, and in sample letter] in such a way as any reader could find out issues, topics, who to write to, etc but so that direct cutting and pasting was *hard* but getting info out was easy, so people wrote in and gave same info but no two letters really resembled each other so the effect was very powerful in typical urban, suburban, etc, newspaper, letters to the editor page will exceed comics and sports! Typically 1/2 to 2/3 of those 250K voters vote, so that knocks down the list of those to influence to write; the ringer is that politicians have a different kind of arithmetic they have memorized; it's not the population, not the reg voters, not the voters who actually go out and vote because in a contested election most of those are won by a 5 to 10% margin; so anyone a legislator believes can swing 10% of the vote in their next election is someone to be "cozied up to and feared". Numbers turn out to be (upcoming boardwatch article by Warren) 3500 to 7-8K affected in a typical district, if you can affect those voters you can swing the election. Ways to figure out which ones those are, BTW. Reg list will not only have names and addresses, but will typically track who has voted in the last X elections, ie whether or not you showed up. You can get that info! Every candidate running wants to know who ACTIVE, likely registered voters are. Don Hopkins asks if politicians are smart enough to check letters from folks against names of active frequent voters; it is actually a criminal violation in many districts! System in SoCal called Monarch that tracks voters and can pull names and addresses, they can pull your info when they get a letter to see if you"ve voted recently, what listed party affiliation is, etc. Jim W has been told that part of that info has been blocked off from legislator's staff via their own computers, they have to go to the Partisan office. Other things need to be made available--- master copies of leaflets and door stuffers. Available to residents in or near a congressional legislator's district. Works for any legislation, not just anticrypto and not just congresscritters. Activist near target geographic area must print on laser printer, do good quality leaflet, though there may be marketing justification for making it look somewhat homemade. Door stuffers & leaflet are standard political tools, used by activists, you don"t have to be charming, etc, can do from your own home 7x24, "this is Nerd Power folks! This is Active Participation, this is access to information so provocative and persuasive that they are persuaded to act, this is Patrick Henry writing inflammatory text that Ben Franklin prints on the printing press in the spare room in his home that Paul Revere rides down the electronic highway shouting and handing out literature..." One of the cool things about this technology is that it is absolutely useless to covert interests, doesn"t work on issues that can"t be open action, that the public wouldn"t support! You don"t have to be covert, you don"t have to sneak up. You can say here's exactly what we"re doing, if you know what's going on you will get really annoyed and help the cause. His guess is that this will be fairly mature and ripe technology by 1996 presidential elections and that this will be a massive tool in the 2000"s. Most effective political action is from nonpartisan citizen to his/her elected official; "this is a chance to use these ThinkerToys to ... "<hugh being annoying lost memory of quote> Wex from MIT: thanks, he's a little jaded since he's been using it in environmental movment, is more effective with a central organization, like EFF, someone needs to do this (radio shows, get volunteers, etc) Jim agrees, says it takes folks of wide talents ranging from wordsmith to scutwork secretarial to political insiders/realworld familiarity to put it all together. But it doesn"t take a lot of people to do it and it can be done by a much much larger range of people than the ones who can do traditional style PACtion. Does not require significant loot! Caveat here: the computer, laser printer, etc better be owned by private individual or by registered political org, otherwise you"re asking for trouble unless you register it as an In-Kind Contribution, can lose your 501(c)3, rival politicians will look for this and any other thing to cause trouble and shut you down! Major flak in Sactoh has some senior politicians doing jail time for using such resources for poli stuff. Push from the ["misguided": Eric H] privacy enthusiasts, to severely restrict machine readable and even paper copies Milton Markson in Senate (SF) Jackie Spear in House (south SF); only big money parties and incumbents would have access if that passes. Indicentally it ain"t hard to get this, he has DAT tape that he always carries with him, has all reg voters for SantaClara and SanMateo (750K- 850K, 400K respectively) on hard disk as well as property records (assessors records). Straight off magtape was 400-500Meg per county. Company in SoCal in SanDiego that has pressed CDROM voter reg records for under $100, privacy advocates "going orbital" over this, statutory restrictions that these are supposed to be being used for campaign, etc. but a helluva lot more people are buying them than can be accounted for that way and you know they are being abused by market-o-droids. comments from ?? (perry?): real problem is that in many cases a senator will have many people who agree wholeheartedly with their (to us, lame) cause, example of senator in Arkansas, trying to do gun control campaign-- ha ha, good luck! Jim replies he is doing electronic equiv of precinct walkers and drones; arthur abrahms says "its a brilliant way to subvert localization of political process" "Perot-inoids" are sponsoring balliot initiabive to stop anyone from contribing to state or local campaign who was not able to vote in that campaign. Jim thought it was neat until someone in Common Cause pointed out fallacy (contribs are political speech, so 1st amend). Main fallacy is that congress votes on laws that affect all of us, so members on key committee might not be elected by any of us in a district yet we are going to be affected by their votes, so it's right and correct for us to seek to affect them. ??: suggest cross correlating email addrs w/voter reg letters to send pre-emailings to people likely to have email addrs, etc... BTW, legislators almost never read actual letters, almost never have time to meet people, etc etc; their time is sucked up by all kinds of folks....the flapper system is alive and well, flappers read and summarize all... Neil Rest: is list of congress committees and subcommittees somewhere easily downloadable, also list of districts by zipcode so we can filter our own addressbooks to find folks in good districts; Jim thinks much committee stuff is ftpable from cpsr.org. Zip code exists, every political operative probably has it, can be created from precinct records, but legally shaky, maybe 70% of zip is in one district and 30% in another, so not as great. Finger a zipcode and find out who your legislator and member of assembly is: finger 94087(a)sen.ca.gov, has a nice little finger daemon to do the lookup.... When Jim got started on 1624 they told him it was dead, he said "why, its a great bill?", "well we can"t find any support for it", "well what do you need as evidence of support?" The aide said "10 or 15 letters or faxes would be a strong showing of support", I said "out of *31 million californians?!*" and she said *yes*. That is a good idea of how much a letter from your own district counts. Only exception to "own district" rule is a bill's author wants to see a whole lot of letters from anywhere at all; they HATE to see letters opposing the bill. Mentions 1991 example of "the offending sentence" in a bill , outlawing crypto, "they got torched to hell and gone", took only 2 weeks to get rid of the offending sentence. ALWAYS worthwhile to do concise 1 page letter to bill's author supporting or opposing! Schlackman and Fozzio in NYC, American Campaign data in Palo Alto, acquire all this info from county, will sell it to you in mag tape, labels, printing, walking order maps, etc. On the cheapo, go to voter reg place (county clerk etc) for a given jurisdiction and purchase info on diskette (often, but sometimes in 9track ebcdic). He's planning on pursuing this technique and process for crypto issue, against software patent monopoly, for state push to get political disclosures available electronically for free online jwarren(a)well.sf.ca.us Gilmore's FOIA's ftp. cygnus.com: /pub/foia.clipper.key Phone interview w/Phil Z, Gilmore, in InfoSecurity News [note: firewalls list recently posted address for it, look in ftp.greatcircle.com for list archives of past month 3/19 _S] Ch 7 news came down and did interview here at Cygnus, related to CERT advisory passwd cracking stuff, we put a press release out re: public release of Kerberos, they called up Cygnus noticing from the press wire; Gumby gave a demo gotten from cracker's passwd sniffer which was installed by cracker; other story in that news segment was about 3 guys put up billboard looking for wives and a voicemail number, someone hacked in and put a new outgoing message saying "thanks for calling but we"re really only interested in men". Clipper FOIA, no response yet Exports, commerce, etc he asked "how is crypto being applied, etc etc" in commerce & export first folks to reply were Dept of Justice Office of Legal Counsel analysis folks who were saying that licensing scheme violates 1st amendment; have been writing memos to that effect for years! memos have been forwarded to EFF, scanning them in Jim Warren: suggests forwarding these to 2020, Day 1, etc, this is one arm of the govt stonewalling another arm Gilmore got turned on to the Office of Legal counsel because of 1980 hearings on Govt Classification of Private Ideas (crypto, patents, private research on atomic energy were main topics); turned onto those hearings by Brahms Gang posting on sci.crypt, found copy of hearing in Fed depository, later found transcripts of entire hearings not just minutes/proceedings; very first memo from office of legal counsel is repro"d in minutes, saying "we"re trying to tell you it's unconstitutional". two sentence synopsys: if you file to try to get a patent on something they can order you not to tell anyone about it and they can put your patent application on hold indefinitely and you can go to jail for a decade for talking about it; George Devita (early crypto inventor) got notified on a speakerphone surrounded by students and was thus in violation immediately, publicized his case to NYTimes & congresscritter, part of impetus for hearings, NSA backed down. Generated List of Agenda Items Eric notes that the balance between external education and internal generation [of items] is pretty good.... Legislation available to us: we need to figure out what needs to go into a bill to kill Clipper RIGHT NOW... Arthur suggests making mandatory for intra-gov comm, Eric says no, that will create a market, maybe a secondary strategy is if clipper passes then try that no Fed standards w/classified data MIT says that NSA is breaking the law right now, there's a regulation against it, they asked Mike Godwin and he said <garble> don"t mention it you"d be screwing up! ??: would suing be a good tactic, asking for a writ or somesuch to enforce the statute against the NSA doing this kind of stuff (standards setting, classification) Bill Stewart: if NSA is not allowed to be involved in civilian crypto then the FIP defines the way you vet clipper as being "ask the nsa"; other way to define legislation is that escrowed keys be available to corresponding citizen and citizen notified of attempted and denied access ?? again: access to keys could be time delimited, notify citizen of end of time; Bill says in clipper you don"t know your own key so you should be able to know it; Neil Rest-- broadening FIPS (fed info proc stds) to FS (fed standards) ??: need to attack private citizens not using crypto legislation key "escrow" is illegal (pass a law) FIPS is illegal Eric H's whole attitude was turned around by one sentence from Mark Rotenberg, EFF counsel: "it's much more interesting to change the law than to adjudicate it." Bill Stewart: read Renos rules on access: said can be accessed by method A, B, C but not *disallowed* kinds of access can"t mandate clipper use between private parties and government (chip) Strata: can we mandate use of clipper or similar so that industry will say it's too expensive to implement ; Eric, no, backward strategies are too dangerous. Jim other (not Warren): can we do stuff on state level that will override the gov"t, can we persuade individual states not to use clipper and thus break the back of clipper that way (ie propose legislation that prevents CA from buying clipper phones) Arthur: alter rules of order for cryto legislation, require 2/3 majority Tim May: I think any law that says certain types of crypto should be required or disallowed plays into the hands of people who want to control crypto; how about coattailing on English is not national language movement, no one shall be required to speak in particular language. James Madison's argument against bill of rights recapitulated by Eric H in response to Tim, Tim says we shouldn"t be encouraging legislation, it encourages the feeling that they CAN legislate crypto policies. Lawrence Tribe from Harvard had suggestion for amendment basically "right of free speech and assembly should not be abrogated by technological progress." <bravo!> Chip: if skipjack hits PD, we should be able to use it Perry & Martin: how about a bill to put skipjack in PD Perry: require procedure & public reports, comments in fed register, rquire for all standards, procedure before adoption ?? : Xfer crypto policy into hands of dept commerce bureau of export (non military only); that agency has an entire culture of making regs easier & promoting export, etc; commerce always goes in and fights for decontrol, will create counterbalance force in govt pointing the right way! ?? blond guy: coda to having a central authority, put auto-approval on export/distribution, ie after N weeks it goes out if they don"t do anything... also that would be a good amendment to 3627 Eric says we need to replace "escrow", possibly w/key custody or key retention ["detention" says crowd]. Witt Diffy talks about terminology that John LeCarre put in espionage from his writing, if you think up terms that are better they *will* use them. net suggestions: loosely guarded key warehouse, key generation service key license vault, master key, custody, retention, key hostage, key confiscation, forfeiture, skeleton key, key minting Hugh-- Dept of Justic skeleton key closet? key licensing system, key assignment, Tim May says great exercise, but no parallel in our system, possible parallel in surrendering your documents when you travel. Key dissemination service, key surrender, sequester, key chaperone, duplicate key demonstration, keyjackers Trojan chips-- escrowed for your protection! <strata> bumper stickers-- my other key is not in the gov"ts closet! Just say NO to key escrow. Hell no, I won"t escrow. Ridicule terms-- house key escrow good analogy incumbents surveillance system <jim w> key conscription key seizure <tim may> privacy forfeiture system <arthur> key crib communication permit, privacy permit, security permit key sharing [the Barney system! eric] permissible privacy key disclosure system denial of privacy ministry of privacy (minipriv & minisec, one holds each half) Winston Denning Internal Privacy Service <don hopkins> also privateers, J Edgar Hoover Data Vacuum key generation bureau KGB privacy tattoo <hugh> ministry of information privacy reposession agency (repo man!) doublekey (like doublespeak); big brother's key ring dept of data vehicles <strata> Tim May says Joe Sixpack doesn"t know key escrow but has heard of Clipper, so we should hack on clipper. Acronyms Martin Perry: the visible citizen Tim May says Mike Godwin is referring to "information snooper highway" (info sniffer highway, Tim quips) SUCK save us from clipper keys Beavis & Butthead episode, have them build a DES cracking machine or talk the class nerd into it <strata> call it the "buttcracking machine" <eric h> Tim May talks about forging postings of semi-official memos realistically as a form of satire; Strata: no, it's too dangerous, we can"t afford to have people link us to not clearly labelled satirical documents; Gilmore: yes, remember how the cypherpunks community felt about being on the receiving end of the misinformation barrage via Detweiler; Tim: why not misinformation, just make it too bogus, etc; Gilmore: read great satire about Internet collapsing due to flat rate pricing, no investment by service providers, and in fact Nader commission just snuck a flat rate proposal in a couple days ago to "encourage competition"; Bill Stewart: yep april 1st is coming up, April 1st RFCs are traditional.; Tim clarifies he wants to make them look ridiculous, ludicrous, start a campaign of laughter against them; Arthur suggests that people don"t know the issues well enough; John Morton suggests preparing a white paper/FAQ style and gradually leading them into the issues and making it clear how silly it is. Martin Perry agrees, like propose a legislation that bans draperies, the drapery escrow stuff; Martin Minow says people should contact any Hollywood contacts as they have experience getting stuff out. Tim May: SNL did satire commercials of little Newton Message Pads of LCD notes, waiting for it to boot, etc. You could probably get SNL to do a fake commercial on key registration or key escrow, etc. Stuff was good-- after Newton pseudomercial 300 people apparently called Apple wanting to buy one! Bill Stewart: get Rush Limbaugh to do a fake commercial too and get the *other* half of the country.<applause> Hugh-- this is your key; this is your key on escrow Bill Stewart-- Clipper Key Escrow Service: we"re from the government, we"re here to help you Clipper the database from the people who brought you {waco, welfare} Strata: "Expose yourself to surveillance." Maybe we can get that mayor who did the expose yourself to art posters! Anything you say or hear can/will be used against you outside a court of law. Telephone w/Miranda rights on it. Martin Perry: stickers had " do not discuss or try to talk around classified info" at an old job of his, on phones. Katy: tidybowl man w/surveillance in a phone Phone w/"do not remove this tap under penalty of law" Bill Stewart: not only could "big brother inside" be turned into a screen saver but cypherpunks could issue a whole screensaver set and license it to Berkeley Systems; Martin Perry: spy vs spy too; every now and again it will randomly look like a fax is being made and say a copy of this screen is being sent to a govt agency; every time it is invoked it shows you what was on your screen the last time it was invoked; Tim May-- virus that says your hard disk is being duplicated. Void says a mod of the THX slogan: The govt is listening. The clipper chip, bringing you 1984 in 1994. Hopkins: Clipper backup plan-- send any vital data overseas encrypted w/magic cookie, send FOIA request to retrieve it! Use a phone, go to jail (arthur); May-- Clipper questions? call someone and ask them. Warning-- NSA has determined that strong crypto is dangerous to...<varies>.. Tim: aside from satire we should be thinking of different slogans that appeal to other groups ranging from Schafly and rightwing, etc. Only God should know (digital confessional, strata brings up clipper would violate this>) Arthur: Guns & codes, the american way. Clipper, for your most public conversations. <gilmore?> Clipper the last amendment <hugh> Ever had a gov"t agency tap you from thousands of miles away? You will! <??> Narrow your listeners down to two. <witt diffy> Reach out and tap someone. Tip & Tap, the Clipper Brothers Clipper, can we talk? Strata: let's hack popular music too: Whitney houston hack: "I will always hear you" and "from a distance" Tom: all conversations are created private but some are more private than others <much cheering> Clipper: the privacy problem's final solution you deserve a tap today; have it their way. with clipper you"re never alone <hugh> instead of we are everywhere, clipper: we will be everywhere. your direct line to the government third ear stickers for digital phones <strata> you"ll never talk alone Clipper: when you absolutely positively have nothing to hide Phil Karns says he wishes the people w/the good jokes would stand closer to the mike! Eric Hughes: a man's phone is his castle ...that huge sucking sound is your privacy flowing south into clipper....<?? perry?> pay no attention to the govt behind the phone line... Witt Diffy mentions German constitutional amendment debate to expand police capacity for legal wiretap; protest movement is using term <gla:sern burgher> (sp?) "a transparent citizenry" Strata draws parallel between McCarthyism & this, govt can say you have something to hide if you are fighting clipper. Anti-Clipper Semiotics Marketing & Positioning Press Coverage Now vs Eastern Europe Cantwell Bill HR 3627 Sameer(a)soda.berkeley.edu, student at UCB, cypherpunk remailer works to send return mail back with encrypted block; he has some docs on the remailer/blink anon server. A remailer that doesn"t need to know the correspondences between anon-ids and real-ids. Can"t run it for real yet, he has restrictions on his account, but contact him via email if you want to help test it. Also started writing an install script for cypherpunks remailers, if you get this install script you can just type install remailer and you"ll get a standard remailer that can tell "normal" mail from mail that should get remailed, etc. Available for ftp on soda. Strick; working on system called Kudzu, based on Tcl; hopes to port to PC and Mac, keeping modular portable components in key. Is crypto toolkit, has DES, RSA, diffy-helleman, gnu database, Ian Smith did C client wrapper for reading, interpreting mailers, lightweight threads out of SunOS, also setjmp/lngjmp. Wants to have support for threaded Dynin (DCNET) cryptography net, have random IP services in that. Plans to have FTP stuff (for US Citizens only) out before April trip to Budapest & Berlin; quip that he can"t go since he knows this stuff. Tim May mentions that if he said he was going w/the intention of implementing stuff outside the country he could be in trouble. M. Strata Rose Unix & Network Consultant, SysAdmin & Internet Information Virtual City Network (tm) strata(a)virtual.net | strata(a)hybrid.com | strata(a)fenchurch.mit.edu

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Digital Signature Standard industry push
by Stanton McCandlish 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

|||||||||| |||||||||| Information Express || || a voorhees report || || || ||||||| 718-369-0906 voice || || 636-8931 MCI Mail || || |||||||||| |||||||||| 411 First St., Brooklyn, NY 11215 ==============================================================+ (c) 1994 Mark Voorhees --Feel free to re-post this article freely-- GORE URGED TO PUSH DIGITAL SIGNATURE STANDARD FORWARD Electronic security firms call for resolution of cryptographic patents March 21, 1994--Eight leading data security firms have written Vice President Albert Gore requesting that he prod the adoption of the proposed Digital Signature Standard. A patent dispute between the government and Public Key Partners is holding up the standard, which would provide a way of verifying documents used in electronic commerce. The companies--AT&T, among them--are frustrated that they are missing business opportunity through government inaction. The original standard was proposed in August 1991. PKP owns most of the critical U.S. cryptographic patents. It negotiated an agreement with the National Institute of Standards and Technology that would give PKP the right to earn royalties on products using the government's digital signature standard. That agreement, which was published in the Federal Register last June, raised a ruckus in industry among vendors who did not want to pay PKP. Gore bent to that opposition on February 4, when his office announced that the standard would be royalty free. While that pronouncement greatly pleased industry, it has created a thicket of sticky, interwoven problems that defy quick resolution. The federal government must either assume the royalty payments, which would likely total millions of dollars; try to invalidate PKP's patents in court; or come up with a new standard. The first option is politically explosive and the second and third are time consuming. "Many of us have invested tremendous time, effort and money in developing systems and products" built to the proposed standard, the letter said. A new standard would also encounter royalty demands from PKP and delay commercial development by four to five years. "Further delay would only delay product development, frustrate the user base, fragment the market and delay the benefits to be realized through electronic commerce," the letter said. Gore's office did not respond for comment by press time. The companies signing the letter were: Information Security Corp.; Litronic Industries; AT&T Secure Communications Systems; Digital Signature; Mykotronx, Inc.; Datakey, Inc,; SecureWare, Inc.; and Cordant, Inc. The letter was dated March 14. (For more information, please refer to the March 25 issue of Information Law Alert, which will be in the mail shortly.) | Mark Voorhees | voorhees reports | | 411 first street | 636-8931 MCI Mail | brooklyn, ny 11215-2507 | | 1-718-369-0906 (voice) | markvoor(a)phantom.com | 1-718-369-3250 (fax) -- Stanton McCandlish * mech(a)eff.org * Electronic Frontier Found. OnlineActivist "In a Time/CNN poll of 1,000 Americans conducted last week by Yankelovich Partners, two-thirds said it was more important to protect the privacy of phone calls than to preserve the ability of police to conduct wiretaps. When informed about the Clipper Chip, 80% said they opposed it." - Philip Elmer-Dewitt, "Who Should Keep the Keys", TIME, Mar. 14 1994

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House hearings on Internet security TUESDAY 22 March, Wash. DC
by Stanton McCandlish 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

[cribbed from a pair of press releases] House Subcommittee on Science Hearing on Internet Security Chaired by Rep. Rick Boucher (D-VA) March 22, 1994 9:30 a.m. - 2318 Rayburn House Office Building The Subcommittee's interest in the issue arises in part because the Internet is a prime method of communication between researchers in academia and industry. It is also a major means of communication for federal researchers at agencies under the Subcommittee's jurisdiction. Recent break-ins on the Internet prompted the federal Computer Emergency Response Team to issue a special alert to Internet users on February 3, and suggest that the system may be more vulnerable than generally acknowledged to deliberate destruction or alteration of computer files. The hearing will evaluate the status of security on the Internet today and will examine measures currently available to enhance security, assess the effectiveness and degree of implementation of such measures, and identify obstacles to enhancing Internet security. Mail sstpress(a)hr.house.gov or fax 202-225-8280 for more info. For press access, call Rick Borchelt at 202-225-3359 Tentative Witness List Mr. L. Dain Gary, Manager Computer Emergency Response Team Operations (CERT) Carnegie Mellon University Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania (CERT is one of the coalition of response teams that form the Forum of Incident Response and Security Teams, or FIRST) Mr. Thomas T. Kubic Chief, Financial Crimes Section Federal Bureau of Investigation Washington, DC Dr. Vinton G. Cerf, President Internet Society Reston, Virginia (Senior VP of Data Architecture, MCI) Mr. Lynn McNulty Associate Director for Computer Security Computer Systems Laboratory National Institute of Standards and Technology Gaithersburg, Maryland (NIST is the secretariat for FIRST) Dr. Stephen D. Crocker, Vice President Trusted Information Systems Glenwood, Maryland (Chair, Privacy and Security Research Group, Internet Research Task Force) -- Stanton McCandlish * mech(a)eff.org * Electronic Frontier Found. OnlineActivist "In a Time/CNN poll of 1,000 Americans conducted last week by Yankelovich Partners, two-thirds said it was more important to protect the privacy of phone calls than to preserve the ability of police to conduct wiretaps. When informed about the Clipper Chip, 80% said they opposed it." - Philip Elmer-Dewitt, "Who Should Keep the Keys", TIME, Mar. 14 1994

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Exciting News!
by Adam Lake 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Fellow cypherpunks: Your Clipper worries are over. Cracker Jacks will soon offer a Clipper decoder ring in a few select boxes of Craker Jacks;-) lake(a)uenics.evansville.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Space for rent ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: How to control the Internet.
by henryl2416＠aol.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Well, you don't have to worry about MicroSoft being buddy buddy with the US Govt'.. They are currently under investigation (read: Witch Hunt) by the Feds for having a monopoly... Seems to many people like to use MS-DOS...

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