December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

The Psuedospoofing Saga Continues
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: ebrandt(a)jarthur.cs.hmc.edu (Eli Brandt) Newsgroups: talk.politics.crypto,alt.privacy,alt.privacy.anon-server,news.admin.policy,comp.org.eff.talk,comp.admin.policy,alt.conspiracy Subject: Re: CRYPTOANARCHIST INFILTRATION ALERT Date: 5 Dec 1993 00:14:51 GMT Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont CA Message-ID: <2dr95r$6dg(a)jaws.cs.hmc.edu> References: <dasherCHH3Ey.J1F(a)netcom.com> <tcmayCHH6MA.Mzw(a)netcom.com> <Dec04.105319.36526(a)yuma.acns.colostate.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: jarthur.cs.hmc.edu In article <Dec04.105319.36526(a)yuma.acns.colostate.edu>, L. Detweiler <ld231782(a)casco.lance.colostate.edu> wrote: >As for what the paranoid ranter and conspiracy theorist an12070 thinks, >who gives a damn? I'm always amazed at top cypherpunks, supposedly interested >in anonymity, attempting to equate me with this email address. Oh, come off it. Your rants under various names (including your own) are very similar: in tone and style, in topic, in their universal fixation on PSEUDOSPOOFING, "top cypherpunks", and "cypherpunk leaders", in time of night sent to the list, in 0 of punctuation. Then we have an12070 quoting from private mail to you -- you tried to weasel by saying you'd "communicated with your colleague", whom you're now calling a "paranoid ranter". And just today you made a blatant foul-up in your rant on drug conspiracies: > Message-Id: <9312041519.AA16672(a)anon.penet.fi> > To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com > From: an12070(a)anon.penet.fi (Pablo Escobar) > puts the life of everyone in the group at deadly dangerous risk. He > said something very bizarre to me, `so Lance, just HOW ARE YOU FEELING > TODAY?' The strange tone was entirely uncharacteristic of him, and I Oops. I find it ironic that for all your rants about PSEUDOSPOOFING, your practices are the most blatant and long-running example I have ever encountered. I would not count your an12070 account as more than one identity, except that you constantly change the name and use different ones to contradict others: "The Executioner" <an12070(a)anon.penet.fi>, says: > I thought that the infamous L. Detweiler had stopped his posting, but it > appears that he is back, and more neurotic than ever. but "S. Boxx" <an12070(a)anon.penet.fi> says: > BTW, many thanks to L.Detweiler for his lone help in helping me break a > corrupt conspiracy and massive cyberspatial hoax. Enough. >Timothy C. May (tcmay(a)netcom.com) wrote: > >: "Medusa" (me, others). I gave up long ago trying to convice Larry >: Detweiler (alias an12070, The Executioner, S. Boxx, The Pervert, The >: Psychopunk, and apparently such pseudonyms) that I am a real person, >That's interesting. Perhaps you would like to enumerate these attempts. You may recall that your very first paranoid claim was that Tim May and Jamie Dinkelacker were the same person. You were given the phone numbers of both -- this was before people became nervous about giving you any personal information. Did you ever attempt a reality check? >If they were, they would have long ago answered my honest questions in >a straightforward manner. Oh, you mean like: >that by E.Hughes in RISKS, `I have never posted under any other name than >E.Hughes' obviously do not count, although they may fool some people. It's not an answer because he didn't ADMIT to his heinous CRIMES, I guess. Rot in place, will you? >ld231782(a)longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU Eli ebrandt(a)jarthur.claremont.edu PGP 2 key by finger or e-mail "I have noticed an interesting overlap between radical libertarians, crypto- anarchists, psychopunks, and people who promote sodomy." -- L. Detweiler

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Quote of the Week
by ferguson＠icm1.icp.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Sat, 4 Dec 93 22:20:44 -0500, Anonymous <nowhere(a)bsu-cs.bsu.edu> wrote - > "I have noticed an interesting overlap between radical libertarians, > crypto-anarchists, psychopunks, and people who promote sodomy." > -- L. Detweiler

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Anonymous Digicash
by Mike Ingle 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I want to write a simple digicash program. This will use code from PGP as much as possible. It will probably be online digicash, but it needs strong anonymity. For that you need a blind signature protocol. What is the best one, and where can I get a description of it? What is the best/simplest digicash system to implement? Is it possible to have a partially blind signature? For example, the customer generates the cash (random string), blinds it, and sends it to the bank. The bank adds an expiration date and signs it. The customer unblinds the random string, leaving a signature on both the cash and the expiration date. --- MikeIngle(a)delphi.com

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Who am I really?
by sboxx＠lodestone.nsa.gov 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Maybe I'm an NSA agent-provocateur sent here to destroy you. You never know....hehehe

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Re: Pablo and NSA
by trestrab＠GVSU.EDU 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>> NSA provided Columbian officials with the tools >> necessary to decipher communication between the >> Columbian drug lord and his cohorts. Escobar had been >> communicating by computer using the American Pretty >> Good Privacy (PGP) software product which was >> compromised by NSA officials working at a remote >> listening station in the Columbian jungle. >> >> > > >Hopefully this is a joke. However, it does bring up a point. The NSA can > put fear into people's minds by simply *claiming* the ability to >compromise PGP. They don't have to really be able to. >Just start a rumor, sit back, and watch what happens. > >Jim_Miller(a)suite.com > Under any circumstances of what the NSA may or may not be able to do regarding breaking PGP, your traffic is certainly no worse off than sending it in the clear, and most likely quite a bit better off. Jeff trestrab(a)gvsu.edu

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No Subject
by greg＠ideath.goldenbear.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I've been playing with the below-mentioned script this afternoon, and it seems to be a very good thing. Folks interested in spotting various names, texts, etc, on Usenet may find the following of interest: (Now we can all be like Kibo :) > From: tchrist(a)cs.Colorado.EDU (Tom Christiansen) > Newsgroups: comp.security.misc,alt.security,comp.security.unix > Subject: Re: Linux rsh BIG RAGGEDY HOLE > Message-ID: <CHH6xx.6qn(a)Colorado.EDU> > Date: 3 Dec 93 20:15:32 GMT > > [text deleted; previous poster lamented difficulty of finding needles > in the Usenet haystack] > > I may be able to offer some small bit of help. If you have access to > your news spool (nntp won't cut it), then you can run Larry Wall's clip > program to help alert you to thing you can describe . The program is > available for anon ftp from convex.com in /pub/perl/scripts/clip; it's > pretty neat. > > [text deleted] > > --tom > -- > Tom Christiansen tchrist(a)cs.colorado.edu > "Will Hack Perl for Fine Food and Fun" > Boulder Colorado 303-444-3212 -- Greg Broiles Lemon Detweiler Pledge? greg(a)goldenbear.com You're soaking in it.

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Re: Who am I Really
by The PUNISHER - Judge 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Whoever sboxx(a)lodestone.nsa.gov is, he sure ISN'T NSA! Everyone knows that NSA does not have an ip address and the one that it does use is so innocuous that any private knows it! Kids these days! :) Kasey a/k/a The Punisher ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THE ## ## ###### ###### ### ## ## ## ## ###### ###### ###### ## ### ## ## ## ## ## ###### ## ## ..... WHO? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

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Remailer Traffic Augmentation
by nobody＠shell.portal.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

(CAPS LOCK ALERT!!!!> WHILE READING HAL'S REMAILER STATS I GOT SOMEWHAT DEPRESSED IT SEEMS THAT I COULD EASILY CORRELATE HIS PEAKS WITH SOME OF MY REMAILER EXPERIMENTS. BY CORRELATING WITH MY MAIL LOGS. I HAVE BEEN LOOKING AT .forward INITIATED SCRIPTS THAT WOULD PING EVERY KNOWN REMAILER EVERYTIME A PIECE OF REGULAR MAIL WAS RECEIVED(NON REMAILER PING TRAFFIC). IT APPEARS THAT PROCMAIL WOULD BE IDEAL BUT IT DOESNT SEEM TO BE UNIVERSAL AT EVERY SITE SO I HAVE ALSO BEEN LOOKING AT C, PERL AND TCL. IF JUST A FEW (1-6) ACCOUNTS AT AS FEW AS 15 SITES DID THIS IT WOULD MAKE TRAFFIC ANALYSIS MUCH MORE DIFFICULT. WHAT DO THE REST OF THE TENTACLES THINK? MEDUSA'S MOTHER ------------------------------------------------------------------------- To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help(a)anon.penet.fi. Due to the double-blind, any mail replies to this message will be anonymized, and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned. Please report any problems, inappropriate use etc. to admin(a)anon.penet.fi.

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Re: Anonymous Digicash
by hfinney＠shell.portal.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Mike Ingle asks about digicash. The simplest system I know of that is anonymous is the one by Chaum, Fiat, and Naor, which we have discussed here a few times. The idea is that the bank chooses an RSA modulus, and a set of exponents e1, e2, e3, ..., where each exponent ei represents a denomination and possibly a date. The exponents must be relatively prime to (p-1)(q-1). PGP has a GCD routine which can be used to check for valid exponents. As with RSA, to each public exponent ei corresponds a secret exponent di, calculated as the multiplicative inverse of ei mod (p-1)(q-1). Again, PGP has a routine to calculate multiplicative inverses. In this system, a piece of cash is a pair (x, f(x)^di), where f() is a one-way function. MD5 would be a reasonable choice for f(), but notice that it produces a 128-bit result. f() should take this 128-bit output of MD5 and "reblock" it to be an multi-precision number by padding it; PGP has a "preblock" routine which does this, following the PKCS standard. The way the process works, with the blinding, is like this. The user chooses a random x. This should probably be at least 64 or 128 bits, enough to preclude exhaustive search. He calculates f(x), which is what he wants the bank to sign by raising to the power di. But rather than sending f(x) to the bank directly, the user first blinds it by choosing a random number r, and calculating D=f(x) * r^ei. (I should make it clear that ^ is the power operator, not xor.) D is what he sends to the bank, along with some information about what ei is, which tells the denomination of the cash, and also information about his account number. The bank debits his account for the amount corresponding to exponent ei, and signs D by raising it to the power di. This leads to E = f(x)^di * r, which is what the bank sends back to the user. The user divides E by r (this is done by calculating the multiplicative inverse of r modulo the bank's modulus, and multiplying E by that), giving C=f(x)^di. The user can then create the actual coin as (x, f(x)^di). This should also have some information appended to it to remember what exponent was used (what denomination this is), so it would actually be (ei, x, f(x)^di). There are some complications in this system. The user may want to withdraw several coins at once, and when he gets back the E values he needs to know which is which (so he knows which r to divide by for each one). So he may want to include some unique tag with his D values he sends to the bank and get the bank to send those back with the E values so that he can distinguish them. The bank will not recognize the coins (ei, x, f(x)^di) when they are deposited (returned to the bank), due to the blinding. But it will need to keep a list of all the x values it has seen so far so that it can detect double-spending. If the ei values encode not only denominations but also issue dates at some level, and if the cash is given a limited lifetime, the list can be purged of old values periodically. I do think a prototype digital cash system would not be too hard to do. It would not have to address all of these problems right away. The larger problem is how to experiment in a meaningful way with diigicash due to the difficulty in giving it value. We've talked about this problem before but I haven't seen any really good solutions. Karl Barrus tried to start up a non-anonymous cash system some months ago but there was nothing to spend it on. (Actually, he does have a remailer which uses his cash, but since other remailers are free that has probably limited interest in the for-pay remailer.) I am continuing to work on a simple TCL interface to much of the PGP functionality which would be needed for such a system (and for other types of experimentation). I have the MP library done, so the additional entry points needed would include the MD5 one-way function, the random- number generation, and the reblocking. Perhaps in another week I will have those hooks in place. Then you could write the control software in TCL, which would be easier for prototyping purposes since it's interpreted. Hal Finney hfinney(a)shell.portal.com

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A Clarification on My Trials and Tribulations
by L. Detweiler 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Cypherpunks, you just don't get it. Why am I continuing to attack you and your leaders despite your vicious, cowardly attacks on me and my friends? Because, as long as you stand for *lies*, you do not have a right to exist. And to the extent that you promote *lies* you are corrupting the Internet and poisoning cyberspace. J.Gilmore says, `a pseudonym is not illegal unless used for deceptive purposes.' But you cypherpunks, that's the *only* purpose you are using them for! If I asked a tentacle, `are you a pseudonym', and it said `yes', do you think I would have gone to all this trouble to write tens of thousands of words attacking people and a movement I used to respect? If I asked your leaders, `have you ever communicated with me under a pseudonym' and they gave me straight answers, do you think I would still be around? YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO LIE TO ANYONE. Cypherpunks, how many of you have gotten messages, `hey, what do you think about T.C.May or E.Hughes and this pseudospoofing thing? Are you going to do anything about it?' For all of you who don't give a damn about your leaders pseudospoofing, why don't you care that your own leaders could be molesting you with their tentacles in this way? Using them in a manipulative way to gauge your loyalty to the movement and manipulate your trust? On the list and in your email? WHY DON'T YOU GIVE A DAMN? All I can conclude is that everyone here is in favor of deception, treachery, betrayal, and perversions, *particularly* if their leaders are responsible. Where the hell do you think I got all the stuff for `Joy of Pseudospoofing'? You think I made it all up? Your leaders molested me in precisely this way, but both the tentacles and your leaders stonewalled, evaded, and counterattacked. They think it is FUNNY how they have personally driven me to the BRINK OF INSANITY. And they *continue* to escalate instead of making simple statements about their beliefs in pseudospoofing, which would satisfy me and anyone else who has doubts. You want the truth? despite their bland statements your leaders *know* that pseudospoofing is PERVERTED and that is the only reason they refrain from saying anything about it, the only reason they continue to attack me as a deranged lunatic. What am I, the police? I don't GIVE A DAMN about all your perversions, as long as you keep them the hell out of my mailbox. But you *don't*. Everytime I think there is another person I can trust, it was nothing but another Leader Tentacle. Look, if you LIE TO ME in mail, THAT PISSES ME OFF and I will ATTACK you for it in an attempt to get to the TRUTH. and it should PISS OFF EVERYONE ELSE HERE TOO but NOBODY GIVES A DAMN. When I hear strange rumors about deceptions in the media, and your eminent leaders fail to reassure me, why is no one else upset about this? Cypherpunks, don't you give a DAMN that articles by reputable authors may contain DISTORTIONS AND LIES? Look, Markoff is a highly respected writer. And if you lie or deceive a reporter, that is like a personal insult. These people could get *fired* if their articles are incorrect in a serious way. but you don't GIVE A DAMN. you think it is FUNNY that you can TRICK REPUTABLE PEOPLE TO BELIEVE IN LIES and so you can PROPAGATE THEM FURTHER. Is there an honest cypherpunk in the entire world? None have contacted me so far. There are a few people that are slinking away quietly with their tail between their legs, but I think you all are just the same scurrilous cowards that your leaders are.

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The Magic Question
by L. Detweiler 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Cypherpunks, please tell me what question I can ask of a psychopunk tentacle such that it will not lie and say that it is a real person! If you have any honesty or credibility, tell me that question! You don't believe in honesty, though. You believe you have the right to invade other's attention with your stealth identities. You rant loudly that anyone who attempts to make sure you are real is insane and a `digital stalker'. You believe you have the right to stick any mail message in anyones mailbox, to post to any newsgroup you wish. You believe that you have a right to trample on the rights of others. And you know you are perverted, but attack me as Satan for telling you that. You think you have the right to lie to anyone who asks, `who are you?' Tell me that question. I will go away when someone tells me the question.

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A little Lao Tzu
by W. Kinney 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forgive the non-sequiter, but this seems appropriate... After a bitter quarrel, some resentment must remain. What can one do about it? Therefore the sage keeps his half of the bargain But does not exact his due. A man of Virtue performs his part, But a man without Virtue requires others to fulfill their obligations. The Tao of heaven is impartial. It stays with good men all the time. (Lao Tzu) -- Will

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Larry Dyer
by L. Detweiler 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

E.Hughes informs me L.Dyer is the cypherpunks Wired photographer. Could someone help me get in contact with him? E.Hughes says to me, `if you still can't take a joke, don't bother replying.' I'm amused by E.Hughes, the most frigid cyberspatial personality I have ever met, referencing the subject of humor. What is the joke? Who is it on? L.Detweiler? G.Spafford? Wired? NYT? How many sites? How many states does it span? How many countries? How many registered DNS entries? What kind of software? How many fake identities? What about the telephony manipulations? Every practical joker I have ever met at least had the decency to *end* it. ah, what a cruel joke. and the jokers delight in it. they will never stop. to do so would be to admit that they are frauds.

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Re: Hi there!
by Eli Brandt 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> I would like to point out that this is an `obviously pseudonymous' > use, not `pseudoanonymous'. Why do you constantly use different usernames for an12070, and have them espouse contradictory positions? To increase the number of apparently-distinct identities which you control! You are attempting to BLUDGEON your opponents into abject cringing SUBMISSION through the sheer force of DEMOCRATIC NUMBERS. > if someone lies to me in email, I am offended and will follow up. if > these tentacles did not claim to be real people, I would go away. You know, you're going to be really embarrassed when you come to your senses. Think about this for a minute. Do you have *any* grounds for believing that we're all the same person? Let me make you an offer: pick the two people whom you think are most clearly a single person. Test your hypothesis. If you prove that they are the same, I will publically apologize to you and denounce "pseudospoofing". If you cannot do so within a pre-agreed time limit, you will stop ranting. Making such a proof should not be too hard -- after all, people connected you and S.Boxx within a week or two. > if you have any knowledge of what is going on, it is your duty to > stop the lie. "Any knowledge" indeed. I am MEDUSA, the controller of ALL TENTACLES. Eli ebrandt(a)jarthur.claremont.edu

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VOTE: Proposition desist
by edgar＠spectrx.saigon.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- VOTE: Proposition desist L. Detweiler will cease posting to the cypherpunks mailing list. He will no longer concern himself with the activities of those on the cypherpunks mailing list here or on any other forum. I support -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.3a iQCVAgUBLQBW294nNf3ah8DHAQHTpAP/fLfxk9SysQIeVLICA0gnvYDbFfhTTTp0 JGL2xRFri7QmtgU6JzO13W9fwlflrpjC39vHcW6wA16SXZtZRXm4xtoYbAAJ8rOn EIyLWQjncpZ1khY8pvO+iLNR/KzqWVa+jdQd/VaQar0Y3eFmxS6tyw5OWdOiJs3q Yau0PJ0mdBk= =OCMw -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- edgar(a)spectrx.saigon.com (Edgar W. Swank) SPECTROX SYSTEMS +1.408.252.1005 Cupertino, Ca

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Invasion of Privacy
by L. Detweiler 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hello again, you darling cryptoanarchists! I just wanted to drop you a line on the subject of my resume. At least one psychopunk has access to my real paper resume and one tentacle has had long had access to an ASCII version. An informer tells me that both have been circulating in some circles for you all to smirk at. I consider this an atrocious breach of my privacy by more hypocrites. My resume is directed at those who I intend, not those who wish to discredit me. If you have knowledge of its circulation, please send me email. Now, back to your regularly scheduled perversions.

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Re: Anonymous Digicash
by Aviel David Rubin 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Mike Ingle <MIKEINGLE(a)delphi.com> writes: > I want to write a simple digicash program. This will use code from PGP > as much as possible. It will probably be online digicash, but it needs > strong anonymity. For that you need a blind signature protocol. What is > the best one, and where can I get a description of it? > > What is the best/simplest digicash system to implement? > > Is it possible to have a partially blind signature? For example, the > customer generates the cash (random string), blinds it, and sends it > to the bank. The bank adds an expiration date and signs it. The customer > unblinds the random string, leaving a signature on both the cash and > the expiration date. > > --- MikeIngle(a)delphi.com Allowing the bank to choose a timestamp opens the door for a subliminal channel.

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Re: The Magic Question
by jordan＠imsi.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From ld231782(a)longs.lance.colostate.edu Sun Dec 5 03:06:00 1993 You think you have the right to lie to anyone who asks, `who are you?' I live in NYC, and am often approached by panhandlers. Approached is the wrong word, I guess I mean that I walk past them. Every person that walks by gets asked the same question: have any spare change? I choose to give to charity for a variety of personal reasons, but I typically don't respond -- at all -- to requests from panhandlers. I don't look at them or respond verbally to the question. Every now and again, when I don't respond at all, I get an insult fired off at me -- like, 'You could at *least* say no' or somesuch. I feel that so long as there's no reason to believe that the question is an "honest" one -- that is, there's nothing to signal the start of a conversation or a "relationship" ... I am, afterall, just walking by, and the next person behind me gets the same appeal -- there's no reason for me to respond, let alone with the "truth" ... I believe that answering a question like "who are you" can and should get different answers depending on the depth of the "relationship" involved. Is the question poser seeking some sort of "truth" ...? A "name" is simply a label, a tag, something to indirect through to access the "named" ... I'm sure we all know people whom we've called "Jack" the entire time we've known him, and suddenly one day we see Jack in a different situation and someone calls him John. Has Jack (*our* Jack) been "lying" to us? ----- One year I spent a summer at a visual arts workshop with a group of people who knew nothing of my past, and I was sure not to know them in the future (10 years later, I've had no contact with any of them). We gathered in a circle on the first day of activities and introduced ourselves after the leader read our names off a sheet. When my name was read, I just ignored it. My name was read three times, and then the leader went to the next name. At the end of the list, she asked "was there anyone whose name I didn't call" ... a woman put her hand up, and so did I. The leader took down our names, and we continued. That summer, I was "Nick" to everyone at the workshop. We worked in very close quarters, and the group of 40 or so quickly developed the kind of "trust" that's required in such intense situations. People needed to count on one another, and often spent sleepless nights together working on projects, helping each other explore their vision and response to the work we were doing, and generally becoming "friends" ... Inevitably, I was drawn to intimacy with one particular woman. It's one of those things you suddenly find yourself in. We shared many secrets, dark nights, heat. In the end, I was "found out" by some other of the staff. It's not even clear how many people "knew" all along. Even the staff member I worked closest with could have known, but for whatever reason never said a word. The fiction was nearly complete for 12 weeks. I did not intend to defraud, the "truth" was consistant. When word passed around that Nick was not my name, some refused to believe it. Some approached me later and started with "Nick ... er, Jordan ... er ... what do I call you?" I said it didn't matter to me, and most chose to call me Nick for the remainder of our time together. I received a few letters from that particular woman, a christmas card or two. I had to tell the place that receives my mail to look out for mail addressed to Nick Stames and route it to my box. We continued a correspondance, sharing some bits of the next phase of our lives, and she continued to call me Nick. I was, afterall, Nick to her. That's who she "knew" ... ----- Why do you care "who" I am? /jordan

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Pseudospoofing
by hughes＠ah.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

This message went to cypherwonks. Eric ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- The issue here is epistemology. >There would be no problem if I asked a tentacle, `are you a pseudonym' >and it answered `yes'. This is exactly like the question "Are you a liar?", to which the answer is always "no". >But the cypherpunks are setting up a network of >fake sites and identities and continue to claim, to the very end, `yes, >I am real' with their fake identities. When I am accused of saying "I am real" from the mouth of a fake identity, and I deny this accusation, there are two models of reality which satisfy the words exchanged: -- I am using a fake identity, and I am lying to deny it. -- I am not using a fake identity, and am telling the truth to deny it. When confronted by a barrage of continuing accusations to which no answer is possible, I prefer to remain silent. I can gain no benefit from discourse in this situation and can only waste my time and the time of my correspondent. The usual way to break out of this 'solipsism of the dialogue' is to invoke a social mechanism, that is, ask someone else. Under a belief of widespread impersonation, however, all denials are now presumed to come from the original speaker of the first denial. Thus the solipsism of the dialogue expands to a solipsism of all dialogues. >Cypherpunks, please tell me what question I can ask of a psychopunk >tentacle such that it will not lie and say that it is a real person! If >you have any honesty or credibility, tell me that question! There is no such question, as I argue above. Am I dishonest if I cannot exhibit the nonexistent? Eric

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Psychobabble
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Newsgroups: talk.politics.crypto,alt.privacy,alt.privacy.anon-server,news.admin.policy,comp.org.eff.talk,comp.admin.policy,alt.conspiracy From: ld231782(a)LANCE.ColoState.Edu (L. Detweiler) Subject: Re: CRYPTOANARCHIST INFILTRATION ALERT Sender: news(a)yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (News Account) Message-ID: <Dec05.095347.86607(a)yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1993 09:53:47 GMT References: <071303Z27111993(a)anon.penet.fi> <szaboCH5E17.HHK(a)netcom.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: traver.lance.colostate.edu Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO 80523 X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 021193BETA PL3] Followup-To: talk.politics.crypto,alt.privacy,alt.privacy.anon-server,news.admin.policy,comp.org.eff.talk,comp.admin.policy,alt.conspiracy Nick Szabo (szabo(a)netcom.com) wrote: : No, Mr. : Detweiler, I'm not "pseudospoofing", How do you explain your statements I analyzed in RISKS 15.27, where you posted to cypherpunks promoting your sophisticated pseudospoofing techniques? Multiple posting sites, countermeasures and contempt for `opponents' who attempt to determine whether your tentacles are who they claim to be. Frankly, I think you are a baldfaced liar. Are you intellectually challenged or am I going to have to go root up all the archives to prove it? You cryptoanarchists are so arrogant. it will be your downfall. ``I have never communicated under any other name than E.Hughes.' (E.Hughes, RISKS 15.28x) ``You can have your private conspiracy xor your public credibility. Soon, you will have neither.'' -- ld231782(a)longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU -- ld231782(a)longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU Newsgroups: talk.politics.crypto,alt.privacy,alt.privacy.anon-server,news.admin.policy,comp.org.eff.talk,comp.admin.policy,alt.conspiracy,alt.wired From: ld231782(a)traver.lance.colostate.edu (L. Detweiler) Subject: Re: CRYPTOANARCHIST INFILTRATION ALERT Sender: news(a)yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (News Account) Message-ID: <Dec05.100158.56184(a)yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1993 10:01:58 GMT References: <071303Z27111993(a)anon.penet.fi> <CH6CnA.Dq2(a)Colorado.EDU> <sheafferCHBxos.70D(a)netcom.com> <PMETZGER.93Dec2154048(a)snark.lehman.com> <strnlghtCHJ6yA.EGL(a)netcom.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: traver.lance.colostate.edu Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO 80523 X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 021193BETA PL3] Followup-To: talk.politics.crypto,alt.privacy,alt.privacy.anon-server,news.admin.policy,comp.org.eff.talk,comp.admin.policy,alt.conspiracy,alt.wired David Sternlight (strnlght(a)netcom.com) wrote: : In article <PMETZGER.93Dec2154048(a)snark.lehman.com>, : Perry E. Metzger <pmetzger(a)lehman.com> wrote (about L. Detweiler): : >He's : >literally insane -- it isn't just hyperbole. : The pot calling the kettle black? hee, hee, once P.Metzger complained in his typical searing flame fashion on the cpunk list that the word `cypherpunk' was just too darn subversive sounding. Mr. Metzger is another classic cryptoanarchist. Hey Perry, could you send me another mailbomb for tweaking your nose? let the record show I am in no way agreeing with S.Sternlight <g> people interested in civilizing cyberspace and repressing the cryptoanarchist scum should send `subscribe cypherwonks' to majordomo(a)lists.eunet.fi. Electronic Democracy is on it's way! -- ld231782(a)longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU Newsgroups: alt.politics.datahighway,comp.org.eff.talk,talk.politics.crypto From: ld231782(a)LANCE.ColoState.Edu (L. Detweiler) Subject: Re: The Data Highway Patrol Sender: news(a)yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (News Account) Message-ID: <Dec05.095354.95894(a)yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1993 09:53:54 GMT References: <tcmayCHGF7E.Cu1(a)netcom.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: traver.lance.colostate.edu Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO 80523 X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 021193BETA PL3] Followup-To: alt.politics.datahighway,comp.org.eff.talk,talk.politics.crypto Timothy C. May (tcmay(a)netcom.com) wrote: : The Data Highway will no doubt be patrolled by a new elite police : force, the "Data Highway Patrol." ha, ha, cryptoanarchists beware. : They'll be sent out on their Harley-Davidson cybercycles to check for : discriminatory data packets, for illegal use of encryption technology, : and for "heavy loads" that strain network resources. And occasionally : they'll stop and help a stranded Internetter. and the cryptoanarchists like you will call them `pigs' and resent them for promoting law and order where you previously had your delightful lawless anarchy. : Will President Reno send them in to raid the Cyber-Waco havens? I dunno, but I hope she cracks down on the cryptoanarchist terrorists like you. : I was writing an essay for the Cypherpunks mailing list on the way : strong crypto will make local gambling laws unenforceable (through : "telegambling," where a casino in the Bahamas, or "somewhere" in : cypherspace, is only a phone call through some digital mixes away). It : became clear to me that the authorities will hardly countenance the use : of the Data Highway---the taxpayer's NII--for such uses. yes, the cryptoanarchists will be quite at home when it is possible and rampant. The Cyberspatial Mafia. complete with corruption, bribery, and hit men. : (And a lot of other "interesting" uses I could describe. If : interested, join the Cypherpunks mailing list by sending a request to : "cypherpunks-request(a)toad.com". We were featured on the cover of the : second issue of "Wired" and in the Summer, '93 issue of "Whole Earth : Review," etc. An interesting bunch of folks.) Warning: join the cypherpunks only if you are interested in cryptoanarchist brainwashing from multiple fake identities, many of them from the leaders themselves. `An interesting bunch of folks'. Hee, hee. more like cryptoanarchists and cyberspatial terrorists and guerillas, masters of subterfuge and sabotage, gaining increasing respectability and influence every day. You guys own a congressman yet? : No, the Data Highway won't likely tolerate "sealed loads" that might : be accessing offshore gambling dens, kiddie porn rings, or weapons : secret information markets (not to mention the ever-worrisome : anonymous markets for assasinations...child's play with digital : remailers and digital cash). Poor timmy and your cryptoanarchists, what are you going to do, given that your favorite black uses are barred and illegal? : rules and regulations for "fair access," for the allowable data : packets that can travel on it, and for taxation of the explosion in : commercial traffic which will inevitably come. : Hence, the Data Highway Patrol. : Or maybe they'll call it the "CyberSpace Patrol." who will prevent people like you from building up arsenals of fake identities to deceive others. : Personally, I hate government programs. I don't want the government : "helping" with networks, and I don't want a streamlined data highway. : I like the developing system we've got of zillions of cables, : satellites, fiber optics, and the like, With lots of suppliers of : services and lots of rerouting of packets, it makes it real hard to : enforce the kind of restriction cited above. poor timmy and his cryptoanarchists don't understand the world they live in. they are outcasts and misfits who think that all forms of Government and even Democracy are Orwellian oppressions. they will criticize any system that attempts to put together secure email, that prevents forgery at the protocol level, as Orwellian. : Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, : tcmay(a)netcom.com | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero : 408-688-5409 | knowledge, reputations, information markets, : W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments. : Higher Power: 2^756839 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available. You forgot tax evasion, black marketeering, drug trafficking, pornography, distribution, espionage, overthrow of governments. When are you going to update your .sig? : Note: I put time and money into writing this posting. I hope you enjoy it. Delightful! -- ld231782(a)longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU -- ld231782(a)longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU

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Re: Escobar and Cellular Ph0n3z
by Peter Wayner 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Notes on Escobar: *) Tom Clancy's next-to-last novel, _Clear and Present Danger_ describes a secret drug interdiction mission run by the US Government. It is a novel, but he is well-known for getting many of the details right. The important de-ja-vu is that in the novel, the agents used a "box" that allowed them to recognize the voices of the various druglords no matter which phone line they used. This box would scan all of the cellular channels. *) I believe that Escobar called some radio station to complain about some story about him. The call was traced. Perhaps by mundane, Dragnet-era techniques. (I'm not sure about this point. Any confirmation?)

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Crypto Talk at Stanford, 8 December
by tcmay＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Here are some details about the crypto talk I mentioned recently. You're all welcome to attend, though of course you need to be in the Bay Area! --Tim May Forwarded message: > From daemon(a)Sunburn.Stanford.EDU Fri Dec 3 14:13:02 1993 > Date: Fri, 3 Dec 93 13:56:37 -0800 > From: pranita amarasinghe <pranita(a)shasta.Stanford.EDU> > Reply-To: pranita amarasinghe <pranita(a)shasta.Stanford.EDU> > To: csl-everyone(a)shasta.Stanford.EDU, colloq(a)cs.Stanford.EDU > Subject: EE380 Seminar > Message-Id: <CMM.0.88.754955483.pranita(a)shasta.Stanford.EDU> > > EE380 Computer Systems Colloquim > > Autumn Qtr. 1993/1994 > > Lecture #10 > > Date: Wednesday, December 8, 1993 > > Time: 4:15 - 5:30pm > > Location: Skilling Auditorium > > Title: Implications of Modern Cryptology: Is the Crypto Genie > Already Out of the Bottle? > > Speaker: Timothy C. May, Cryptologic Corp. > > Abstract: > The implications of modern cryptology are profound. Governments and > national borders as we know them today will be affected by this > technology in major ways. Essentially unbreakable ciphers, secure > communications, untraceable digital money, data havens, electronic > voting, and black markets in information are just some of the likely > developments. Some of these already exist, others are on the horizon. > Meanwhile, the Government has other plans, with its "Clipper" > chip that keeps a "master key" and allows it to digitally wiretap at > will. Who will win? How will these conflicting trends resolve > themselves? Is the crypto genie already out of the bottle? > > These issues will be the topic of the talk, with plenty of time left for > discussion. The focus will be partly on technology -- just enough to > provide a plausible foundation for belief -- and partly on the economic, > legal, and political structures resulting from strong crypto. No > number theory will be used. > > Speaker Bio: > Tim May worked for Intel for 12 years, retiring in 1986. He discovered > the alpha particle and cosmic ray effect on semiconductor memories, for > which he received several awards including the IEEE's W.R.G. Baker Prize > for the best original research paper. Since leaving Intel, his main > interests have been in cryptology, information theory, and investments. > In 1992 he co-founded the "Cypherpunks" group and spends much of his time > on the Internet. He's also trying to finish a novel about these topics. > > ===== > +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ > | To get removed from this mailing list (colloq-local), send your request | > | to colloq-request(a)cs.Stanford.EDU. See the weekly summary for more info. | > +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Encryption and IP via Cable "TV"
by Harry Shapiro 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I pulled this off of nexis. Please note the line I highlighted. Does anyone know what kind of encryption is being used? At even $100 per month, we could set up also sorts of remailers all over the country. We could even create a secure comm. via PGP (for voice) via IP, etc. But I wonder if the encryption "they" are using would interfer with such schemes? /hawk Ethernet connection, but wouldn't require any other additional installation on users' part. PSI isU.S." PSI plans to have 2 tiers of service, business and residential. Network security problem has been ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ solved, using "on-the-fly" data encryption, he said. One issue that ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ hasn't been fully resolved by Continental is reliability, Schoffstall said. "Cable companies are used to supplying entertainment. If their network goes down for a day, wesame cable system to provide their data, essentially their livelihood in the case of business users, well, there's going to have to be much better understanding of how to provide some guarantees of service." Price for service in homes is to be $ 75-$ 100 per month at start, but is expected to drop rapidly as economies of scale grow. -- Harry S. Hawk habs(a)extropy.org Electronic Communications Officer, Extropy Institute Inc. The Extropians Mailing List, Since 1991 EXTROPY -- A measure of intelligence, information, energy, vitality, experience, diversity, opportunity, and growth. EXTROPIANISM -- The philosophy that seeks to increase extropy.

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Graynet - anon/encrypted piracy
by Alexander Chislenko 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

P.O. Box may be not the safest way of collecting the money; encrypted anonymous cash transactions would be much better; also, one can not only advertize on the net, but provide the service. Suppose I open a virtual store selling illegal/copyrighted info - software, music, movies, porn, etc. Pirates receive royalties from the stuff they upload; customers, naturally, pay. All anonymous and encrypted and based on a network of hard-to close (offshore?) remailers. The potential revenues from such a store seem well worth the effort of setting it up. The question is how can they close it? -- Sasha?

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Enough is enough
by Matthew J Miszewski 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

please do 1 of the following two things. 1) Ignore L. Detweiller completely and put a message in the welcome message to the effect that he posts highly flamable material and replys should preferably go to his private email box. 2) Ban him from posting. Yes that is what i said. I believe whole heartedly in freddom of speech, but when that freedom interferes with other rights it may be impinged. I believe that one of those palces is the educational arena. I am trying to learn and before LD came on stage I learned a *shitload* from the cypherpunks. I do not censor easily, but it is unbearable. If i had the resources I would start another mailing list and invite everyone but him. Shocker I have the right to *not* include you. And I would exercise it. Ive been on the list for about a year and dont want to leave. Another option if the first two are no good would be to simply have everyone on the list forward every, *every* , post coming from LD to his postmaster. If they let it out, they might as well get as frustrated with his antics as me. And LD, I am a law student with an itchy litigation finger :-)...try me. --Matt ______________________________________________________________________________ In defense of liberty, encrypt for all purposes, civil and professional. In defense of privacy, encrypt all correspondence, personal and professional. In defense of sanity, do not encrypt your dry cleaning invoice! ++++++++--------mjmiski(a)macc.wisc.edu (c)1993

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