December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: joy of export, h/ware
by Jim Gillogly 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>>> What type of attack was used in the famous test? Known plaintext? It >>> gets a bit tougher in the real world doesn't it? >> >> Not really. Michael Motyka <mmotyka(a)lsil.com> skribis: > Even if you don't know what you're looking for? Help me out with that > one. The question was "in the real world": in this case, as opposed to artificial challenges, you often (or normally) do have access to known or chosen plaintext. This can involve expected headers ("\nSubject: " somewhere near the beginning of a message has a good chance of giving you a 64-bit block), standard plaintext (". The " is a perennial favorite), or known C idioms ("#include <stdio.h>\n") can all be tried. The EFF hardware is set up to look for various kinds of patterns. For example, it can check the high bit on the recovered plaintext, to see whether the result is ASCII. This is certainly the easiest way to get in if you're breaking normal uncompressed messages or source code. If it's compressed, you still may be OK -- most compression packages put magic file identifiers at the beginning, and some have guessable trees there. If you're breaking a transaction stream it's likely to be even easier, with the standard headers, even if you don't go to the trouble of injecting your own know transaction into the stream. -- Jim Gillogly Trewesday, 14 Foreyule S.R. 1998, 20:22 12.19.5.13.7, 6 Manik 20 Ceh, Sixth Lord of Night

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No Subject
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Citibank in drug cash probe GAO report slams bank for secretly moving millions in alleged drug money December 4, 1998: 10:56 a.m. ET http://cnnfn.com/worldbiz/9812/04/citibank/ Citigroup's Dimon resigns - Nov. 02, 1998 Citibank Buys Into Microsoft-Supported E-Billing Venture - Sep. 14, 1998 General Accounting Office Citibank NEW YORK (CNNfn) - Citibank secretly transferred up to $100 million in alleged drug money for the brother of the former Mexican president and violated its own internal controls on money laundering, the General Accounting Office said Friday. The GAO charged in a report that the second-largest U.S. bank facilitated "a money-managing system that disguised the origin, destination and beneficial owner of the funds." The report, entitled "Raul Salinas, Citibank and Alleged Money Laundering," could lead to congressional hearings against Citibank in the new year. Salinas is the eldest brother of Carlos Salinas de Gortari, who served as Mexican president between 1988 and 1994. There have been repeated rumors that Salinas was linked to drug lords. But according to the report, Citibank's private banking unit asked Salinas few questions when approached by him in 1992. As a mid-level government employee, Salinas earned less than $200,00 a year. But between 1992 and 1994 he moved more than $90 million through Citibank accounts. Checks worth millions of dollars were taken by hand to Citibank Mexico by Salinas' wife Paulina. The money then was moved to Switzerland through a complex series of international transactions. Starting in mid-1992, the GAO said, "Citibank actions assisted Mr. Salinas with these transfers and effectively disguised the funds' source and destination, thus breaking the funds' paper trail." Citibank has its own "know-your-customer" procedures, which it failed to follow in the Salinas case, the GAO said. It was only after Salinas was charged with murder in 1995 that Citibank investigated the source of funds. Even then, according to a bank representative, "Citibank New York's Mexican division believed that all of Mr. Salinas' funds had been obtained legally, with a large portion resulting from the sale of a construction company he owned," the report states. "However, Citibank reportedly knew no details about the construction company, including its name, who had purchased it, or the amount of money generated by its sale." GAO investigators also criticize the bank for establishing a Cayman Islands trust to disguise the source and destination of Salinas' money. Salinas has denied any wrongdoing, saying that the money came from Mexican industrialists who wanted him to establish an investment fund. Citibank said in a statement the report "contains gross errors of fact and interpretation" and "ignores recent progress in strengthened law and industry procedures which Citibank strongly supports in keeping with our commitment to combat money laundering, to comply with the letter and spirit of related laws and to continually strengthen our procedures everywhere we operate." Spokesman Dick Howe added, "We have looked into the matter ourselves and have found that neither the company nor any employee has violated the law. We're cooperating fully with law enforcement authorities." The GAO said it was unable to determine whether Citibank broke U.S. money laundering laws. But the Justice Department also is investigating the company's actions. No law specifically requires banks to know their customers, but money laundering -- concealing the source of funds obtained from illegal activity including drug sales -- is illegal. Salinas is in prison, being tried for murder. Citibank is now part of Citigroup (C) following its merger with Travelers.

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Re: Streams, Voice, and Sensitive Dependence
by Michael Motyka 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> It is my understanding that the PGP algorithm is primarily intended > as a block cypher. Therefore, wouldn't an Outer Block stream cypher > be more effective for phone conversations? Both solutions require > hardware for a practical (tolerably noiseless) implementation, so > there's nothing to be gained by streaming data into a block format. > Unless you have a really fast ( 1 Mbit / s? ) data connection you're going to want to do some voice compression. The algorithms I've seen break the audio into discrete time frames and (de)compress frame by frame. As a point of reference say about 16 bytes for every 33 msec of voice. Quality roughly follows data rate, of course. This makes a block cipher seem not so unreasonable. Block cipher or stream cipher, either way you're going to have to introduce a latency of _at_least_ a couple of frames to allow for resends or deliberate out-of-order frame transmission. This makes the block cipher look like the better choice. I think that using HW voice compression and a 33.6 modem you could get a full duplex secure conversation over POTS with a latency in the 0.1 - 0.3 second range and a direct cost in the vicinity of $100. With a reasonably quick microP any encryption method could probably be done as SW. This is not a particularly difficult device to build. Any fine US citizens want to build some prototypes? Mike

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RE: Wassenaar Statement
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text From: "Phillip Hallam-Baker" <hallam(a)ai.mit.edu> To: "Robert Hettinga" <rah(a)shipwright.com>, <dcsb(a)ai.mit.edu> Subject: RE: Wassenaar Statement Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 18:02:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal We have seen this type of press release before. Uncle Sam goes off to a conference and returns to state that the rest of the world has committed to its position - only to find out later that the rest of the world did not. Anyone remembe the time the crypto Tzar went off to the European Association (a non binding talking shop) and got a similar 'undertaking'. It is more likely that the Wassenaar statement reflects what went on at the meeting. But even then most countries in Europe have a democratic process in which decisions are made by elected representatives and not by beaureacrats at closed treaty negotiations. Just as the munitions acts under which the ITAR crypto regulations are purported to be made clearly do not provide the executive with the powers claimed, neither do most of the European enabling acts for COCOM. Nor in a parliamentary system is it quite so easy for the executive to perform Zimmerman type persecutions. If the same tactics had been used in the UK the Home secretary would have faced political consequences for the failure of the prosecution. The Matrix Churchill affair played a significant part in the collapse of the Major government in the UK. I doubt Straw would be keen on a repeat. The UK DTI proposals requiring GAK as a condition of CA licensing may appear to meet the Freeh objectives but since there is no proposal to make licensing a requirement of doing business the result is most likely to be nobody becomes a 'licensed CA'. There is a legitimate business need for key recovery but nobody offering those services is going to want access to the customer's private keys. Doing so would be akin to keeping triffids as pets. It is not necessary to keep actual private keys to achieve the objective of controlling access to the private keys. Phill --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)philodox.com> Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism <http://www.philodox.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

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Re: FC: So far, I think Mr. Aarons' Wassenaar statement is disinformation
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 18:19:58 -0500 (EST) From: Peter F Cassidy <pcassidy(a)world.std.com> To: Robert Hettinga <rah(a)shipwright.com> Cc: dcsb(a)ai.mit.edu Subject: Re: FC: So far, I think Mr. Aarons' Wassenaar statement is disinformation Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: bounce-dcsb(a)ai.mit.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Peter F Cassidy <pcassidy(a)world.std.com> Friends, In e-mail exchanges with EC ministers and government ministers in W. European nations that I have had about Aarons one thing is consistent. All seemed to be shocked and dismayed at his ability to report out facts to the press in the US and to the Clinton Administration that have little to do with actual events. It would not surprise any of them if Aarons' unilaterally declared a 33 nation crypto-control agreement that was based entirely on his baroque misunderstanding of the facts. PFC On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Robert Hettinga wrote: > > --- begin forwarded text > > > X-Sender: declan(a)mail.well.com > Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 15:29:29 -0500 > To: politech(a)vorlon.mit.edu > From: Declan McCullagh <declan(a)well.com> > Subject: FC: So far, I think Mr. Aarons' Wassenaar statement is > disinformation > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Sender: owner-politech(a)vorlon.mit.edu > Reply-To: declan(a)well.com > X-Loop: politech(a)vorlon.mit.edu > X-URL: Politech is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/ > > [John is basing his analysis below on what's been posted on the Wassenaar > site so far, and these kinds of documents aren't always put online > immediately. That said, if Ambassador Aaron is talking about the online > documents and John's analysis is correct, the Clinton administration is > going beyond mere spin: it is trying to deliberately deceive. --Declan] > > ********* > > Subject: So far, I think Mr. Aarons' Wassenaar statement is disinformation > > Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 10:55:00 -0800 > From: John Gilmore <gnu(a)toad.com> > > I have not found a single confirmation of the Aarons statement that > the 33 Wassenaar countries have agreed to change the exemption for > mass market crypto software. (The NY Times and Reuters stories both > quote Ambassador Aarons.) > > This lack of confirmation includes the Wassenaar Arrangement statement > itself, which merely says: > > The amendments to the lists included elimination of coverage of > commonly available civil telecommunications equipment as well > as the modernisation of encryption controls to keep pace with > developing technology and electronic commerce, while also being > mindful of security interests. > > http://www.wassenaar.org/docs/press_4.html > > The Wassenaar Arrangement works by consensus; any member can block the > adoption of any item merely by voting against it. The policy Aarons > announced is directly contradictory to the recently reaffirmed > government policies of Finland and Ireland. In addition, Canada and > Germany have recently stated strong pro-crypto positions (while > waffling on the particular issue of the treatment of PD and MM > software). > > The Wassenaar Arrangement also states: > > This arrangement will not be directed against > any state or group of states and will not impede > bona fide civil transactions. > > To the extent that there is any attempt in the Agreement to control > mass market or public domain crypto software, such a provision > would clearly contradict this limitation written into the Arrangement. > The Arrangement is for military goods -- not for civilian goods. > PGP and other civilian crypto tools are not military by any stretch > of the imagination. It's hard to imagine that all 33 countries would > ignore this obvious problem, especially when it was pointed out to them > by concerted lobbying over the last several months. > > I also note that none of the statements are clear about exactly what > is affected. PGP, SSH, SSLEAY, Linux IPSEC, and many other crypto > tools are "public domain" rather than "mass market" software. The > General Software Note (originally from COCOM, and adopted bodily by > Wassenaar when it was formed) exempted both "public domain" and "mass > market" software from all controls. > > Finally, a companion paper released from Wassenaar yesterday shows a > clear concern by the body for human rights and fundamental freedoms: > http://www.wassenaar.org/docs/criteria.html: > > e. Is there a clearly identifiable risk that the weapons might > be used for the violation and suppression of human rights and > fundamental freedoms? > > (In this case if the the Aarons statement was true, Wassenaar itself > would be used for the violation and suppression of human rights and > fundamental freedoms. It's hard to see that the delegates would also > ignore this and vote to suppress human rights and freedoms.) > > So, I see two major probabilities here: > > * Either Aarons is lying, to see how much trouble this stirs up. > This would be taking a page from FBI Director Freeh, who > announced FBI support for domestic controls on crypto last year, > and was then disavowed by the Administration when a ruckus > resulted. > > * Or the NSA has cut a deal with these countries. Then the > question is: what did NSA offer in return? The usual trade > has been access to the flow of wiretaps (as in the UKUSA > agreement that gives Britain, NZ, Australia, and Canada access > to Echelon -- look who the strongest supporters of the US position > are). Another alternative is that they used wiretaps to > blackmail senior politicians in the recalcitrant countries. > (It happened in the US by J. Edgar Hoover for many years.) > > Do either of you have any info that would tend to confirm or deny > one of these theories? > > EFF and the GILC members are checking with various governments to > start to flesh out what *actually* happened. > > I should also note that developments like this are rather expectable. > Every time crypto policies get decided in a closed-door meeting where > the US government is invited, they get worse. Whenever crypto > policies are set in open meetings where the public and the press are > able to watch -- or even, god forbid, participate -- they get better. > The OECD meetings of a few years ago were intended to be the first, > but citizens and journalists swarmed the meeting site, buttonholed > delegates as they entered and left, and turned it into the second. We > should've done the same with this Wassenaar meeting. > > US civil libertarians are prying crypto policy decisions into the > light of day via the courts and the Freedom of Information Act. > Classified NSA/FBI testimony to Congress is getting declassified, and > then its obvious lies are easily rebutted by the public. > > The natural response of a bureacracy that is more concerned with its > own power to wiretap, than with making the right decisions for its > citizens, is to move its crypto maneuvering overseas into "diplomatic > meetings", held under cover of diplomatic secrecy, where they can lie > and twist arms with impunity. > > John > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > POLITECH -- the moderated mailing list of politics and technology > To subscribe: send a message to majordomo(a)vorlon.mit.edu with this text: > subscribe politech > More information is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > --- end forwarded text > > > ----------------- > Robert A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)philodox.com> > Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism <http://www.philodox.com/> > 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA > "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, > [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to > experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' > > For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to > "dcsb-request(a)ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help". > For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to "dcsb-request(a)ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help". --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)philodox.com> Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism <http://www.philodox.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

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PGP Disk
by Mixmaster 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Has anyone had the chance to try out the new McAfee PGP disk? It seems pretty straightforward, allowing for the creation of encrypted "drives" using the CAST algorithm. Is anyone aware of any security flaws with it?

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Re: y2k/gary north delusions (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 20:22:18 -0500 > From: Michal Hohensee <mah248(a)nyu.edu> > Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions > You cannot sustain a modern city without a working sewer system. > Remember what cities were like in the middle ages? I believe some > historians refer to them as "population sinks" for the surrounding > countryside. Not for a lack of wealth or commerce, but for a lack of > sanitation. Paris and London had populations of over a million each and didn't have a sewer system. It was traditional for people to throw their chamber pots out into the street along with the offal from the various animals. The reality is that the folks who support the various systems would have them no manual over-ride within 24 - 48 hours so the worst case scenario won't happen. Countries that aren't automated won't notice the difference and the city services that are won't be down more than a week. ____________________________________________________________________ Technology cannot make us other than what we are. James P. Hogan The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: y2k/gary north delusions (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions > Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 17:40:59 -0600 (CST) > From: ichudov(a)algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home) > Well... The answer is that there is much less washing needed for > survival than it is needed for day to day civilized American life. True, you don't have to water your grass and wash your car. > For instance, I change my shirts every day. If shit hits the fan, > you can wear a shirt for two weeks. Similar story is with other > clothes. You won't do that sort of stuff for long. A couple of months at best before you get skin infections and then it's down-hill from there. It's pretty much a bogus point though since none of the systems like power, water, and sewer won't be down more than a week at most. ____________________________________________________________________ Technology cannot make us other than what we are. James P. Hogan The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: y2k/gary north delusions (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions (fwd) > Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 18:46:17 -0600 (CST) > From: ichudov(a)Algebra.Com (Igor Chudov @ home) > > Paris and London had populations of over a million each and didn't have a > > sewer system. It was traditional for people to throw their chamber pots out > > into the street along with the offal from the various animals. > > Guess why they had those devastating epidemics. True enough, but that sort of stuff takes more than a week or two. The various cities could go around setting up port-a-potties and latrines in parks with plastic liners for easy removal, etc. It isn't nearly the civilization shaking event some would make of it. ____________________________________________________________________ Technology cannot make us other than what we are. James P. Hogan The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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.
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

... > A few rules of thumb result from even cursory examination > of the likely environment: > ... > 5. Ultimately, the only way the remailers will provide > what might be described as Pretty Good Security will > be when we have software that maintains a regular > or random rate of messages to and from the remailer > cloud, a stream into which the meaningful messages > can be inserted with no visible change in traffic. > Until then, the best we can do is try to keep traffic > levels up, and to send and receive frequently enough > to frustrate end-to-end traffic analysis. Well, the existing remailer net doesn't make "Pretty Good" anonymity very feasible. I'd think something based on the general idea behind Crowds. (Furthermore, most remailer structures still can't erase some other security concerns -- 1: remailers acutally can be hacked or physically compromised 2: clients really can be screwed 3: etc. To help solve the first, you'd want a two-box setup doing remailing, with the security-critical stuff loaded on a box not directly connected to the Net with something 140-1ish to make tampering harder, a secure OS, etc. -- or, of course, you can scrap all that to get really big remailer count. To help solve the second problem, there needs to be a better web-of-trust setup -- that is, one which applies to code as well as keys. Those who wish to verify code get a .sig-verifying program from a trusted source then use a WoT to authenticate various facets of the program necessary for security. A solution to the third problem is expected RSN.) > > 6. Don't send anything that can have grave consequences. Remember the consequences to an adversary who uses its secret decoder ring, though: the more plausible it becomes that a certain source is being used for intelligence-gathering, the more likely it is that that source will promptly begin to run dry as the spied-upon realize that Something Got Broke. My advice, however, agrees with that of the other Anonymous. That is, unless you've really thought things out, think of an remailed message as merely .sigless, not anonymous. > > 7. Take names. Always take names. Some day... > > FUDBusterMonger > > It Ain't FUD til I SAY it's FUD!

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the shit hitting the fan
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 02:48 PM 12/4/98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: >Even flushing toilets is not necessary as anyone can shit outside. > >I am speaking out of personal experiences, living with water outages >while we were in the Russian countryside. It was no big deal, period. Moron. At a low population density you can do anything, burn wood, leaded gas, etc., no problem. LA has 1e7 people who shit about a kilo per day. Compute the volume of that after a week.

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PGP Disk
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>Has anyone had the chance to try out the new McAfee PGP disk? >It seems pretty straightforward, allowing for the creation of >encrypted "drives" using the CAST algorithm. Is anyone aware of >any security flaws with it? I'm sure somebody will check if they are bored some day. Where can we find the source code? If the source code isn't available, don't trust it. That's a good general rule.

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What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries?
by John Gilmore 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I spoke some hours ago with Tatu Ylonen in Finland. His company has confirmation from the Finnish government that the government agreed to a proposal to limit mass-market crypto exports to 56 bits. Perhaps he or someone else from SSH can post more details. So *something* really did happen at the Wassenaar meeting, but we don't know two important things: * What exactly did they agree to? In particular, is public domain -- as opposed to mass market -- crypto controlled? * And what did NSA offer, to convince many countries to directly contradict policies that they had arrived at during year-long public consultations with their own citizens? A carrot? A stick? Blackmail from wiretaps? Access to NSA's wiretap network in return for cooperation? What was the strong motivation for so many countries to go against their own economic and self-determination interests? It was pointed out to me that the Wassenaar Arrangement has no legal effect. Each country has to go back and amend its own local controls. However, I personally saw cases more than a year ago where both Japan and Belgium were restricting bona fide civilian crypto transactions "because Wassenaar requires us to" when in fact it didn't. This development will give these countries much more "cover" to implement draconian policies, under secret arm-twisting from the US. We will have to fight this one in the trenches, in each country. First step is to raise a hue and cry and put each government on the defensive (as they well ought to be). Then let's find out what "deal" they made with the devil. Finally let's see whether, as Perry says, civil rights and political processes work, and the will of the people will actually end up codified in the laws of each country. Or not. John PS: I particularly like Ambassador Aaron's characterization that this new development will help US industry, by censoring foreign crypto publishers in the same way the US government censors US publishers. A giant step forward for freedom and commerce everywhere, eh Mr. Aaron? What an incredibly talented liar, I mean diplomat, he is.

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Re: Vengeance Libertarianism
by Michael Motyka 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

My oh my, The alternative to outright revolution has historically been to pack up and ship out to whatever frontier was in vogue. Dangerous, difficult, but apparently compelling if the home situation sucked badly enough. Potentially very rewarding to the survivors. The historical fate of any frontier has been that as soon as it has become somewat hospitable the shitheads arrive with their carpet bags and make it over into the same fucking thing that everyone ran away from in the first place. The first sign of inFESTERation was often a church, followed by a town hall which filled up quickly enough and shortly thereafter hired a sheriff to enforce the town gun ban and who eventually needed more men... And so the cycle repeats with the virtual frontier we're in right now. It was just fine until "they" came along to "civilize" it. Unfortunately backs are to the wall and there is nowhere else to go because SPACE SUCKS MOOSE ALIENS DRY LIKE BUGS. Top that. they - esRb to civilize - to own, regulate, commercialize and tax esRb - evil, scumsucking, Reptilian bastards I could probably develop some sort of virtual space cowboy allegory here that would go on for (p)ages and involve the painful, bloody death of many an evil villian at the hand of a courageous hero and enough deviant sex ( whinny ) to keep the audience enthralled to the very end. The story could probably be continued until well after the traffic has subsided but what the hell, I like driving 5 mph, it's good for my car's engine, my patience and the bandwidth shortage. m

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Re: Streams, Voice, and Sensitive Dependence
by Michael Motyka 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> http://www.starium.com > 14.4 modem, awsome sound quality, 2048 bit DH, 3DES. The web site is pretty sparse. No wonder I couldn't find them before - I was looking for "Starion" a while back. I'll call them next week - they're practically local. What's the approximate price? I have another question for you: I thought I was a real whiz kid a few years back when I figured out that by using an agreed upon startup key then using a "random" public/private key pair generated by the SW, two voice stations could exchange a "random" session key. With thumbscrews and the rack you could not get the session key. Even the dreaded rubber hose would fail. The startup key protected the PK. The ultimate security was as good as the PK portion. The conversation was practically pre-shredded. I was bummed when I discovered this had already been patented and was called EKE. Does the Starium phone accomplish this effect? Mike

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Re: y2k/gary north delusions (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions (fwd) > Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 19:21:36 -0600 (CST) > From: ichudov(a)Algebra.Com (Igor Chudov @ home) > > True enough, but that sort of stuff takes more than a week or two. The > > various cities could go around setting up port-a-potties and latrines in > > parks with plastic liners for easy removal, etc. > > > > It isn't nearly the civilization shaking event some would make of it. > > Well, at least shitting is not going to be the hardest part of it. True enough. Power, water, police, fire, etc. will come back pretty quickly if anyone notices it was ever down. The really poor won't notice anything. The most effected would be the wealthy. There will be outbreaks in Compton and similar ilk but by no stretch of the imagination will it become a conflagration. That's the beauty of an armed populace. Even if the police don't respond it'll burn out as the front of rioters thin with increasing radius and the odds go down. I'd bet the delivery of foodstuffs to the store wouldn't slow down one bit. It's possible to run a combine without the GPS. The trucks are driven by people, they're loaded by fork-lifts. And you'll need to hunt long and hard for a commercial freezer with a clock in it. I've never seen a damn that didn't have manual gate controls so flood control and hydro-electric will come back pretty quickly. The actual switch control panel in power plants have manual over-rides everywhere. Ditto for electric power grids. Mass transportation like trains and aircraft will be effected. Individual transportation like cars won't stop. Inconvenient and expensive, you betcha. The decline of western civilization, not hardly. ____________________________________________________________________ Technology cannot make us other than what we are. James P. Hogan The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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the shit hitting the fan (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 06:00:13 +0100 > From: Anonymous <nobody(a)replay.com> > Subject: the shit hitting the fan > At 02:48 PM 12/4/98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > >Even flushing toilets is not necessary as anyone can shit outside. > > > >I am speaking out of personal experiences, living with water outages > >while we were in the Russian countryside. It was no big deal, period. > > Moron. At a low population density you can do anything, burn wood, leaded > gas, > etc., no problem. > > LA has 1e7 people who shit about a kilo per day. Compute the volume of that > after a week. It's not the raw volume that's critical but rather the percentage of the average personal space per inhabitant versus how much to store a weeks worth. For the average person storing a weeks worth of solid waste in a platic bag with bleach, lye, or similar material is reasonable. I've gone on long duration camping trips of about a weeks length and the storing and portage costs are not excessive (having a boat or horse helps move it around). ____________________________________________________________________ Technology cannot make us other than what we are. James P. Hogan The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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pgp disk
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 03:05 AM 12/5/98 +0100, Anonymous wrote about some new product: >If the source code isn't available, don't trust it. That's a good general >rule. Where is the source for pgpfone?

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RE: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries?
by Phillip Hallam-Baker 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

John Gilmore may be right, but remember folks that in Europe we have this thing the Greeks invented called democracy. One of the ideas of democracy is that decisions are not made in secret closed meetings. The interpretation of the US ambassador appears to be based on the assumption that the governmental proceedures of democratic countries are like those of his home country. In fact European governments cannot make law simply by telling the national police force to arrest folk who engage in particular behaviour. The system of checks and balances may be described in the US constitution but it is entrenched in the European polity. The UK does not have a national police force precisely to stop Hooverism. Even directives of the European Commission do not have legal force until the national parliaments enact legislation to implement the directive. One should also remember that the government of the Netherlands has agreed to control the sale and use of narcotics. If their efforts to control cryptography are as dilligent we have nothing to worry about. In addition under the single European act the entire country of Europe is one export zone for crypto control purposes. I fail to see that stopping Brits from exporting crypto to the US changes the equation a great deal. There once was an English king called Canute who attempted to demonstrate to his courtiers that he was fallible and could not order the tide to turn. Perhaps Clinton's courtiers need to learn that they suffer the same limmitation. Phill

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Fwd: Attn. INTERNATIONAL FIREARM COMMUNITY !
by Jean-Francois Avon 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE================== >Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 22:35:56 -0800 >From: Donna Ferolie <donnaferolie(a)sympatico.ca> >Subject: Attn. INTERNATIONAL FIREARM COMMUNITY ! This message has gone out to firearm owners all over the world as well on the cdn-firearm chat and cdn-firearm digest. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ATTENTION INTERNATIONAL FIREARM COMMUNITY This message is specifically dedicated to sport shooters from around the globe. I would like to acknowledge our friends from the U.K, South Africa, Brazil, New Zealand, Australia and the good old U.S.A. I have just sent out idividual messages to all of these countries and some others including Germany, Belgium, Austria, Boliva, Argentina, Aruba Slovakia and Barbados. If your country has not been listed please contact me directly. I am trying to develop a list of countries that are logging onto our open firearms chat line. It is my goal to have firearm owners from every country monitoring and sharing their experiences. Please encourage fellow shooters in your country to come on line and take advantage of this open forum. I fully realize that the primary focus of the Canadian Firearms Chat Line is aimed at Canadian gun laws; however, there is a great deal of pertinent international information that could be shared in this medium and we will all be the beneficiaries if we willfully share our ideas and experiences. I have another strategy up my sleeve regarding rallying the international firearm community prior to the final outcome of the United Nations firearms workshops in the year 2000; therefore it is paramount that we maintain frequent global communications. I will be exploring some of my ideas with the NRA and the Sporting Shooters Association of Australia in the new year and floating some draft strategies for open discussion. Moreover, I fully intend on attending most of the United Nations firearm workshops therefore having everyone connected to one open forum would assist me in getting this information out all of you in a quick concise manner. I've had a few myopic individuals ask me why I should be so concerned about gun control in other countries ? As far as I am concerned we should all be concerned -VERY concerned ! When one of our sister countries falls we should all feel their pain and learn something valuable, because we may be next. We cannot for a minute forget about the draconian laws rammed down the throats of other Commonwealth countries in particular or any free-thinking society. Can we really delude ourselves into thinking that it couldn't happen here- don t kid yourself, as I write, the erosion of our rights is going down the same path as Australians are treading, faster than we care to admit, and we all should instinctively know it? How would Canadians like to have all of their semis and pump shotguns and rifles declared illegal and confiscated overnight by a communist-leaning, bleeding heart liberal government- think about it !! It is important for Canadians to realize that countries all over the world feel no different that we do. They feel just as vulnerable and thus are seeking guidance and support. We are in an excellent position to offer assistance to each other via this open forum. I truly believe we can learn from each others mistakes and triumphs. Perhaps if we can tap into this universal intelligence on a continuous basis we could overtake the mighty Goliath. If time permits I would like to post the names of all anti-firearm NGO's and their meetings which are going on simultaneously all over the world as we speak. I think it is high time that we banded together as one solid global unit in an effort to effectively launch a counter attack against those that take glee in the gradual erosion of our civil rights and liberties. A frequent complaint about this type of forum is the problem of receiving an excessive number of messages, but I believe the rewards associated with this hassle far out weigh the inconvenience. I care very much that our friends in South Africa are now subject to new guns laws. I am sickened by what has transpired in Australia and the U.K. I want the world to know how crime has escalated in Brazil and yet they live under the most stringent gun control laws. As a point of interest the " boys from Brazil " will be preparing a written paper outlining this very fact which I will present on their behalf to the anti-gun Brazilian delegation at the next U.N workshop in Vienna in the latter part of Jan/99. In conclusion, if you are interested in banding together as one strong universal voice, then get your friends connected to this open chat /and or digest. Let us not lose focus of our own battle at home, but let us not turn a blind eye to our global neighbours struggles. I understand that English is a problem for some of you, but we are understanding and we willing to work through any language barriers. So please do NOT feel uncomfortable to communicate with us - we d love to hear what has transpired in your country ! Remember, repeated blows to the lower extremities will eventually cause the giant to fall ! You can subscribe to the Canadian Firearms Digest and the Firearms Chat line by 1) Subcribe to the cdn chat & cdn digest ( separately ) 2) e-mailing the following address for both chat & digest: <majordomo(a)sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca> 3) Leave the subject section blank 4) Write in the body of the message subscribe cdn-firearm chat end subcribe cdn-firearm digest end Remember when you are subscribing to the chat is separate from the digest. Please feel free to contact me anytime at the following: donnaferolie(a)sympatico.ca Donna Ferolie Keep up the fight! Donna Ferolie Canada ===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE===================

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Re: Netsurfer Digest: Vol. 04, #35
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 4:14 AM -0500 on 12/5/98, editor-bounce(a)netsurf.com wrote: > Secret Netsurfing... for a Fee > > You meet such nice people in this job. People like Cyber Promotions, who >believe the way to a great Web site is not content, originality, or >design, but an "aggressive marketing campaign every week" - it sells spam. >For a fee, Cyber Promotions will send out up to 50,000 messages at a time >through untraceable remailers and silent servers. This delightful >organization also bring us - as expected, for a fee - Ultimate Anonymity, >under the guise of the old-style anonymity sites which campaigned to the >death against censorship and government interference (remember Penet?). >Anyone with $14 can use this site to post anonymously in newsgroups, send >unlimited quantities of untraceable e-mail (with attachments), and >generally pollute the bandwidth. There may be genuine privacy campaigners >using the site, if they can squeeze in between all the amateur porn >merchants.... <http://www.ultimate-anonymity.com/> >http://www.ultimate-anonymity.com/ ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)philodox.com> Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism <http://www.philodox.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

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Greg Taylor: preliminary Wassenaar details from three countries
by John Gilmore 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

[Greg graciously allowed me to repost this. --gnu] Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 15:22:53 +1000 From: Greg Taylor <gtaylor(a)efa.org.au> Hi John, You wrote: >I have not found a single confirmation of the Aarons statement that >the 33 Wassenaar countries have agreed to change the exemption for >mass market crypto software. (The NY Times and Reuters stories both >quote Ambassador Aarons.) I think Aarons must have an advanced degree in spin doctoring, but nevertheless information about new restrictions on mass market software has also come from 3 independent well-placed sources. >From the UK crypto list: ================= Just talked to Dirk Weicke, Senior Adviser to Wassenaar Organisation. Tel:+43 1 516360) No written details will be issued until next week, but gist is: *) No alteration to question of whether Wassenaar covers intangible exports. Up to signatory states to interpret and legislate. *) mass-market software, symmetric key length limited to 56-bits *) software generally available, but with other restrictive tests on end-user re-configurability, symmetric key length limited to 64-bits *) Assymetric key lengths (not sure how relates to above) limited to: RSA & Digital logarithm: 512 bits Elliptic curve : 112 bits ===================== And here's a view from David Jones (EFC), from the GILC list: ===================== - There is "some relaxation" for restrictions on symmetric methods using key lengths of 56 bits or less. Stronger crypto would require an export license. - There is no restriction on mass-market software using symmetric methods and a key length of 64 bits or less. Stronger mass-market crypto would require an export license. - "Public Domain Software is not restricted" [If this is really true, this is still an important loophole.] - There is not yet any clear information about the status of "intangible goods", like crypto software on a web site, or sent by email, as opposed to "tangible goods", like software on a floppy disk or CD-ROM. - The restrictions on mass-market software greater than 64 bits is "for public safety" reasons and will last for 2 years, after which it will be reviewed. ============================= Yesterday I got the Australian government interpretation from Robbie Costmeyer in Canberra. Costmeyer is the Defence bureaucrat responsible for approving export licenses. I was told that Wassenaar had now agreed that the General Software Note waiver no longer applied to Category 5/2 items (i.e. crypto) on the controlled goods list. It has always been the view of Defence Signals Directorate here that it was an oversight that crypto software came under the GSN. That reason was used to justify Australia's going one step further than required under the original Wassenaar Arrangement and disallowing exemptions to the export licensing rules. A few other countries do the same (USA, New Zealand, France, Russia). Canberra thus views the latest change as the correction of an oversight. Clearly there is a difference of interpretation here regarding public domain software (compare the Canadian view above). This question needs further investigation. The Australian view is that the latest Wassenaar changes are a relaxation of the previous rules. And they're right, when compared with the previous rules applying here. Australia will now move to amend the Defence Strategic Goods List (DSGL) to allow exemptions for small key lengths as decribed above. For other countries, the effects remain to be seen. We'll just have to wait for more information to filter out. Greg

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17 Dec '03

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ZDNet and ZDTV Forums Update
by ZDNet Announce 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ This is the second message from ZD to all the members of our message boards. It contains information and tips about a coming transition to new software. You will receive just one or two more of these messages in the coming week. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ When you go to the ZDNet or ZDTV forums on Tuesday, Dec. 8, you will find the new Deja News software in place. You will see some differences in the way the message boards operate, so you may need to experiment a little. If you are very familiar with our current forum features, it will take some time to become comfortable with the new system. We apologize for the inconvenience this causes and are trying to make the switch as painless as possible. We'll have dozens of sysops online answering your questions every day. We also will update the on-line help files frequently to highlight key differences between the current software, called Podium, and the new version. Below are some advance hints for everyone making the switch to Deja News. You can try these features out in now our Test Forum at http://f5.dejanews.com/frames/test.html ** Messages that you have not yet read appear in bold. ** That's how Deja News tells you which posts are new since you last visited. Once you open and read a message, the bolding goes away. You have the option to Mark Thread As Read, and an entire set of messages will lose their boldness. In addition, you can Mark All As Read, and every message in that forum will become un-bold. ** When you leave a forum and come back later, messages that you read previously are not displayed. ** You can see these already-read messages by clicking the Show All button. Here's the tricky part: If you read all the messages in a thread and then someone adds another, the entire thread will be displayed and most messages will not be bold. Just the new message that you have not yet read will appear with bolded text. (In our current message board software, messages that you had already read remain hidden when a new message is added.) ** On Tuesday, some messages that you have read will be marked as unread. ** We will migrate all the messages currently in Podium over to the new Deja News software. However, we cannot keep track of which messages every user has read. As a result, all messages will be marked initially as unread. You can easily take care of this by doing one of two things: 1) Use the Mark All As Read found at the top of the new message board. This approach is fastest, but it might make you overlook some messages you really do want to read. 2) Use the Mark Thread As Read text link found at the beginning of each thread. This approach is a more selective way to get up-to-date, but it takes a bit more time. ** You can Expand or Collapse the entire thread list. ** The thread list shows all the individual "conversations" happening in the message board. The default setting shows you just the starting topic in each thread. If you want to see a detailed list of all the replies to that initial message, just click the Expand button. To shrink your threads list again, click the Collapse button. Collapse and Expand are basically toggle buttons. Show All and Show Unread are also toggle buttons, and they oper- ated independently of the Collapse and Expand controls. ** Your browser's reload button works in the forums. ** In Podium, when you hit reload in your browser, your forum display settings would disappear. In the upcoming Deja News software, your settings are preserved. So go ahead and hit reload to see if new messages have been added while you are online -- it works! ** Give Search a try. ** The Deja News fast search capability will help you track down messages easily. You can look across all the forums or in just one, for any text in a message. If you choose Mark All As Read but want to locate an earlier message, use the Search function. Thanks for taking the time to read this note. I hope these tips give you some insight into the new software and make the switch smoother. We're adding user-suggested info to our help file with the launch of the new forums next week, so keep those comments and ideas coming! We look forward to seeing you in the new forums, and we are glad to have you as a part of the ZD Community. Wendy Frankwich ZD Community Central http://chkpt.zdnet.com/chkpt/zdn11204/www.zdnet.com http://chkpt.zdnet.com/chkpt/zdn11204/www.zdtv.com _______________________________________________________________________ To be removed from this list, simply reply to this message with "unsubscribe" as your subject.

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[Fwd: y2k/gary north delusions]
by Soren 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

To: Igor Chudov <ichudov(a)algebra.com> Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions From: Soren <sorens(a)workmail.com> Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 08:29:23 -0500 References: <199812042341.RAA18742(a)manifold.algebra.com> Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > > > Well... The answer is that there is much less washing needed for > survival than it is needed for day to day civilized American life. > > For instance, I change my shirts every day. If shit hits the fan, > you can wear a shirt for two weeks. Similar story is with other > clothes. This is a good one. What about the other half of American life (the uncivilized?). You know, the americans who live in those old refrigerator cartons? The ones that nobody sees? I think they get more than 2 weeks out of their shirts. The sad fact is that city brats haven't got the faintest idea what survival is all about (you mean I have to *walk* to the supermarket?). It was in the 1890's when Queen Victoria issued an edict that forced all the english to 'bathe at least once a year'. Sit back and enjoy the carnival.

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