December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries?
by Joel O'Connor 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

As Karl Marx said also, "Democracy is a slow form of communism." That's why the forfathers decided to make us a republic, something many have forgotten. ---HyperReal-Anon <nobody(a)sind.hyperreal.art.pl> wrote: > > "Phillip Hallam-Baker" <hallam(a)ai.mit.edu> writes > > John Gilmore may be right, but remember folks that in Europe we > have this thing the Greeks invented called democracy. One of the > ideas of democracy is that decisions are not made in secret closed > meetings. > > Yes, and people democratically demand government enforcement of the > majority will, something made more difficult if the subjects have > strong cryptography. > > As Donn Parker observed several years ago, strong cryptography is > inconsistent with democracy. (Published in Scientific American --- > reference on request.) > > John Gilmore <gnu(a)toad.com> writes > > Some countries actually seem to care what their citizens think > about their crypto laws, unlike the shining example of democracy, > the USSA. And when we educate the citizens, they tend to make the > right choices. Let's keep trying. > > But don't educate them too much, or they will understand that > cryptography can set people free, and if people were free there would > be no political government, and if there were no political government > their social security checks would stop coming, along with all their > other government ``benefits''. > > == Ogre bounces like sonar. . .Peace. Ogre _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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DCSB: Ira Heffan and Mike Schmelzer; "Software Patents" and Digital Commerce
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rah(a)pop.sneaker.net Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 13:02:59 -0500 To: dcsb(a)ai.mit.edu, dcsb-announce(a)ai.mit.edu From: Robert Hettinga <rah(a)shipwright.com> Subject: DCSB: Ira Heffan and Mike Schmelzer; "Software Patents" and Digital Commerce Cc: Ira Heffan <heffan(a)tht.com>, Mike Schmelzer <schmelze(a)tht.com>, Roland Mueller <roland(a)secunet.com>, "Jonathan J. Rusch" <rusch1(a)erols.com> Sender: bounce-dcsb(a)ai.mit.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Robert Hettinga <rah(a)shipwright.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- The Digital Commerce Society of Boston Presents Ira Heffan and Mike Schmelzer Testa, Hurwitz & Thibeault, LLP "Software Patents" and Digital Commerce Tuesday, January 5th, 1999 12 - 2 PM The Downtown Harvard Club of Boston One Federal Street, Boston, MA Although the very idea of patenting software seems to be an anathema to much of the programming community, patents on software continue to stream out of the U.S. Patent Office. Everyone involved in digital commerce applications, which are by definition software-based, probably has heard about recent events: The Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit decided "State Street Bank & Trust Co. v. Signature Financial Group," which explicitly ratified patenting methods of doing business, and a spate of well-publicized patents have issued claiming to cover such concepts as the virtual shopping cart and the reverse auction. As a prerequisite to discussing these recent developments, the first part of our talk will provide an introduction to patents. We will explain what patents are and what they are not, and describe the business goals that a patent can serve. Then we will talk about current events, and attempt to put the _State Street_ case in context. We will present a survey of recently-issued patents (suggestions welcome) related to digital commerce, and conclude with some speculation about current trends, including a novel form of software patent with potentially huge implications. Ira Heffan (heffan(a)tht.com) and Mike Schmelzer (schmelze(a)tht.com) are patent attorneys at Testa, Hurwitz & Thibeault, LLP (http://www.tht.com) We will be presenting our own personal views on this topic, and not the views of Testa, Hurwitz & Thibeault, LLP or its clients. This meeting of the Digital Commerce Society of Boston will be held on Tuesday, January 5, 1999, from 12pm - 2pm at the Downtown Branch of the Harvard Club of Boston, on One Federal Street. The price for lunch is $32.50. This price includes lunch, room rental, various A/V hardware, and the speakers' lunch. The Harvard Club *does* have dress code: jackets and ties for men (and no sneakers or jeans), and "appropriate business attire" (whatever that means), for women. Fair warning: since we purchase these luncheons in advance, we will be unable to refund the price of your lunch if the Club finds you in violation of the dress code. We need to receive a company check, or money order, (or, if we *really* know you, a personal check) payable to "The Harvard Club of Boston", by Saturday, January 2nd, or you won't be on the list for lunch. Checks payable to anyone else but The Harvard Club of Boston will have to be sent back. Checks should be sent to Robert Hettinga, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, Massachusetts, 02131. Again, they *must* be made payable to "The Harvard Club of Boston", in the amount of $32.50. Please include your e-mail address, so that we can send you a confirmation If anyone has questions, or has a problem with these arrangements (We've had to work with glacial A/P departments more than once, for instance), please let us know via e-mail, and we'll see if we can work something out. Upcoming speakers for DCSB are: February Roland Mueller European Privacy Directive March Jonathan Rusch Internet Fraud We are actively searching for future speakers. If you are in Boston on the first Tuesday of the month, and you would like to make a presentation to the Society, please send e-mail to the DCSB Program Commmittee, care of Robert Hettinga, <mailto: rah(a)shipwright.com>. For more information about the Digital Commerce Society of Boston, send "info dcsb" in the body of a message to <mailto: majordomo(a)ai.mit.edu> . If you want to subscribe to the DCSB e-mail list, send "subscribe dcsb" in the body of a message to <mailto: majordomo(a)ai.mit.edu> . We look forward to seeing you there! Cheers, Robert Hettinga Moderator, The Digital Commerce Society of Boston -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5 iQEVAwUBNmwX/8UCGwxmWcHhAQFfjgf+IBe01g9XCldZYT+GRDI5ho1sOPgL6W7q zLDQToz0GGM/NZzv44SMTSGpDFx80R1yautvy4xHMnYQy2UnvO2WGsfrjuwSdQte 8qxoRAFkihyP/mi/83As2TwWdp6QhwbjI02hyP6elsdSzsspflwwonOB4I+8E/xX UDsGdQH4AHaWrK1S5XYfJSHSRGOBpk2+cqboiGvbcbC1z0vDRGrnztf8GADoPVC3 6vw4M00f+cgIuoaqqO4ol62Os6D+WPVw2NMop20OD62EGzYO2pyQjboPvBLxyRD7 smLz/4S598uLZF0GX+GO/8rCjAORask/Qt3SFIU2HMMPj9nKIvVtJw== =gz6w -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)philodox.com> Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism <http://www.philodox.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to "dcsb-request(a)ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help". --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)philodox.com> Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism <http://www.philodox.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

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Re: tyranny of corporations (was: Corporate Nations)
by Steve Schear 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The hitman image certainly rings true for some top execs I've met. I recall a session with a corporate sociologist many years ago (the company was going through one of those team-building bullshit affairs). I had completed a psychological profile tests and we were reviewing the results. She was given to occasional black humor and on this particular occasion told me she has some good news and some bad news, asking which I prefered hearing first. I selected the good news, whereupon she said that my profile was an exact match with those who reach the highest levels of the corporate world. Then the bad news, its also the profile of a master criminal. I kid you not. As to hyperindividualism, Robert Bork covered this topic in his recent book Slouching Toward Gamorah. In it he identified two idiological diseases infecting America: radical equality and radical egalitarianism (i.e., hyperindividualism). Both, in his opinion, are a result of a warped evolution of 20th Century liberalism. Since many in our society seek to emulate these hitmen (i.e., get a piece of the rock at any cost) and have no more scruples themselves than those to whom they aspire, anonymous betting pools could harness the more extreme members in a populist fashion to counterbalance our new age robber barrons and politicians. The solution to hyperindividualism isn't regulation (which can be blunted or co-opted by those with the bucks) but allowing those below to profitably advance at the expense of those at the top. Dynamic equilibrium in a new marketplace. Sort of like the way Klingons get field rank advancements. --Steve

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At a Comic Shop near you...
by Alan Olsen 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

This may or may not be of interest... Spy v.s. Spy action figures are now available! There is a black spy and a white spy (sorry, no grey spy). Each comes with lots of gadgets (knives, blackjacks, saws and a bomb). Each spy has "bomb throwing action". They are distributed through comic shops at the moment. They sold out pretty quick where I got mine, so you will not want to wait if you want one. --- | Bill Clinton - Bringing back the Sixties one Nixon at a time! | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | | | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/ |alan(a)ctrl-alt-del.com|

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DSA for encryption
by Bennett Haselton 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi, I'm working on an enhancement to a Web-based program that allows you to circumvent proxy server censorship by sending a request for a Web page to a computer in the outside world that is not blocked by the proxy, and having that computer re-send a copy of the banned page back to you. The current version of the software, written by Brian Ristuccia this past summer, is at http://ians.ml.org:8801 where you type a URL into the form, submit it, and the resulting page has a URL like: http://ians.ml.org:8801/aHR0cDovL3d3dy55YWhvby5jb20= instead of http://anon.free.anonymizer.com/http://www.yahoo.com/ which is what Anonymizer gives you, which makes it obvious what you were looking at to anyone who looks through the proxy server logs. Of course, any manufacturer of Internet censorship proxy server software could easily add ians.ml.org to their list of blocked sites (as they have all already done with Anonymizer), so the idea would be for people to get their friends to set up port-forwarding programs on computers that were not blocked by the censoring proxy, and those could be set up to relay requests between the IANS server and the computer behind the proxy server. The general outline for this scheme is at http://www.peacefire.org/bypass/Proxy/ and the current version of IANS ("Internet Alternate Name Space") is part of the way towards implementing this (theoretically) bulletproof solution. The major pending improvements to the IANS software are (1) the URL is not truly encrypted; the garbled characters in the URL above just represent some basic scrambling to evade detection by people who sweep their proxy server log files for keywords, (2) even if the URL were really encrypted, when you first fill out the form, the URL is submitted to IANS in the clear, so it could be detected by any censoring proxy server that logs data submitted by GET or POST. One Internet censorship proxy server called SmartFilter already does this and blocks you from submitting *any* banned URL's using GET or POST, so IANS does not work with SmartFilter, for example. I am working on a JavaScript form that could be used on the client side to solve this problem. We would like to use DSA to encrypt the requests sent using IANS, since I've heard DSA can be used for encryption without royalties, unlike, for example, RSA. Does anybody know of a Web page that explains how the DSA algorithm can be used for encryption, as opposed to message signing and authentication? I found a page at http://www1.shore.net/~ws/Extras/Security-Notes/lectures/authent.html that describes the DSA algorithm for signature verification. I have looked very hard but have been unable to find a page about how to use DSA for encryption. Can anyone help? I know there is software like GNU Privacy Guard that implements DSA for encryption, but the source code is 3 megabytes and I was hoping there was a page that explains the process more simply than that. -Bennett bennett(a)peacefire.org (615) 421 5432 http://www.peacefire.org

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Re: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries?
by pgut001＠cs.auckland.ac.nz 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

One thing which came to me recently when I was trying to figure out what sort of gun the US held to the rest of the world's head to get them to agree to this: Could the Wassenaar outcome have been a sign of Echelon in action? Consider this: Delegates from each country have been travelling to Vienna for some months now to negotiate their countries position. During the negotiations, they'll be contacting their governments via phonecalls carried over microwave trunks, satellite links, or undersea cables to discuss the progress of the negotiations and what position they should take. Just like the negotiations which lead to the Five-Power Treaty in 1921, if one country had the ability to intercept all the other countries communications it would know how far they could be pushed, and where the most resistance was likely to come from, allowing greater amounts of "persuasion" to be concentrated on them. I can't think of a more appropriate application of Echelon (use worldwide surveillance technology to perpetuate the usefulness of worldwide surveillance technology), and it would go some way towards explaining the very peculiar agreement which was reached. Peter.

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FWD: Read this. Now. And *act* on it. (was re: Building cryptoarchives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls)
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

It's time, folks. They can't win if we do anything at all, but they *will* win if we do nothing. Robert Hettinga --- begin forwarded text X-Authentication-Warning: toad.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: cryptography(a)c2.net, gnu(a)toad.com Subject: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 15:23:54 -0800 From: John Gilmore <gnu(a)toad.com> Sender: owner-cryptography(a)c2.net The US Wassenaar initiative is an attempt to deny the public not only all future strong crypto developments, but all existing ones. As today's message from Denmark makes clear, the freedom-hating bureaucrats are threatening to prosecute a citizen merely for publishing PGP on his web page. Let's at least ensure that they don't eliminate *today's* strong crypto, by replicating crypto archives behind each Berlin Wall they threaten to erect. Today we depend on a small number of archives (in a small number of countries) containing source and binaries for PGP, SSH, Kerberos, cryptoMozilla, IPSEC, and many other useful crypto tools that we use daily. Let's replicate these archives in many countries. I call for volunteers in each country, at each university or crypto-aware organization, to download crypto tools while they can still be exported from where they are, and then to offer them for export from your own site and your own country as long as it's legal. (The Wassenaar agreement is not a law; each country has merely agreed to try to change its own laws, but that process has not yet started.) And if at some future moment your own government makes it illegal for you to publish these tools, after all your appeals are denied, all the pro-bono court cases rejected, and all the newspaper coverage you can get has been printed, then restrict your web site so that only your own citizens can get the tools. That'll still be better than the citizens of your country having NO access to the tools of privacy! (I suggest putting these tools on a Web site on a machine that you own, rather than on a web site where you buy space from someone else. That way there'll be nobody for the freedom-squashers to threaten except you.) I'm sure that John Young's excellent http://jya.com site will be happy to provide an index of crypto archives around the world, if people will send him notices at jya(a)pipeline.com as your sites come up. (Each archive should locally mirror this list, so that we won't depend on a single site.) Rather than having their desired effect of squelching crypto distribution, perhaps their overbold move can inspire us to increase strong crypto distribution tenfold, by making it clear to the public that if you don't keep a copy on your own hard drive, the governments of the world will be merciless in scheming to deny you access to it. And if crypto developers have to publish on books, or rely on smugglers to get crypto from country to country, then at least each country will have its distribution arrangements already ready for when the book is scanned or the smuggler arrives. John Gilmore --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)philodox.com> Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism <http://www.philodox.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

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NEW Reuters story (fwd)
by Jukka E Isosaari 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 23:50:55 +0000 From: Dave Bird <dave(a)xemu.demon.co.uk> Reply-To: ukcrypto(a)maillist.ox.ac.uk To: ukcrypto(a)maillist.ox.ac.uk Subject: NEW Reuters story In article <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F85F3@MSX11002>, Brown, R Ken <brownrk1(a)texaco.com> writes >r [sent to crytpo list, and to CIV LIBS DISCUSS] Yahoo! News http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/wr/story.html?s=v/nm/19981203/wr/ privacy_1.html Thursday 3 December 1998 12:38 PM ET Europe readies police techno-surveillance law By Niall McKay SAN FRANCISCO (Wired) - The European Union is quietly getting ready to approve legislation that will allow the police to eavesdrop both on Internet conversations and Iridium satellite telephone calls without obtaining court authorization. The legislation is part of a much wider memorandum of understanding between the EU, the United States, Canada, New Zealand, and Norway, a nonmember European nation. That agreement allows authorities to conduct telecom surveillance across international borders, according to a Europol document leaked to members of the European Parliament. ``Security measures are often necessary in the cases of terrorism or organized crime,'' said Glyn Ford, a member of the European Parliament for the British Labour Party and a director of the EU's Civil Liberties and Internal Affairs Committee. ''But what we need is some sort of democratic control. It seems to me that many security services are a law unto themselves.'' That will presumably be a topic of discussion when the European Council of Ministers meets behind closed doors Thursday to update a 1995 wiretap agreement known as the Legal Interception of Telecommunications Resolution. If approved, it would permit real-time, remote monitoring of email, as well as of calls placed on satellite telephone networks such as those maintained by Iridium and Globalstar. Unlike most laws in Europe, the agreement will allow law enforcement to listen in without a court order. ``This is a US export,'' said Marc Rotenberg, director of the Electronic Privacy Information Center. ``It's a European version of the Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act.'' The act, passed in 1984, was intended to allow law enforcers to tap the digital lines of tomorrow, just as they tap analog phone lines now. Ironically, in September, the European Parliament called for account- ability of Echelon, the US National Security Agency's spying network that is reportedly able to intercept, record, and translate any electronic communication-telephone, data, cellular, fax, email, or telex. Under European law, representatives of each member nation can pass legally binding resolutions. Further, the resolutions don't require the approval of either the European Parliament or the individual parliaments of EU members. Many European Parliament members are outraged that the Council of Ministers has been acting in secret. They are especially concerned about the inclusion of non-EU nations in the agreement. Patricia McKenna, a representative for Britain's Green Party, will raise the issue in Parliament this week. She also intends to ask Europe's Justice and Internal Affairs Council to ''justify the secrecy and lack of consultation surrounding these initiatives.'' McKenna is requesting what she described as an ``open debate on the crucial and far-reaching measures, with enormous potential impact in the realm of privacy.'' Another member of the European Parliament believes that the so-called ``update resolutions'' will have staggering implications for personal privacy. ``This legislation is not just a technical update,'' said Johannes Voggenhuber, an Austrian representative for the European Parliament. ``It places the onus on the telecommunications carrier to provide a watertight back door to police.'' The European Council for General Security prepared the amendment with technical assistance from the FBI, according to the Europol document leaked. The four major satellite telephone operators-Iridium, Globalstar, Odyssey, and ICO-will be required by the law to provide access to European law enforcement through ground stations in France, Italy, England, and Germany. Iridium officials could not be reached for comment. It is unclear how the memorandum of understanding will affect US citizens. ``I find it very hard to believe that a foreign nation-any foreign nation-could eavesdrop on US citizens,'' said John Pike, a security analyst with the Federation of American Scientists. ``It's one thing for the FBI to try and track terrorists across international borders, but it's entirely another to let Europeans tap US citizens' telephones.'' The FBI would neither confirm nor deny any relationship between the United States and the other nations involved in the memorandum of understanding. However, Rotenberg said such provisions are already in place under the 1994 Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act. While the new European law is being sold to EU member states as a means of combating what the legislation calls ``serious and organized'' crime, there is no clear definition of this phrase. ``It simply concerns any punishable offense,'' said Tony Bunyan, director of Statewatch, a European civil liberties group. (Reuters/Wired) |~/ |~/ ~~|;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;||';-._.-;'^';||_.-;'^'0-|~~ P | Woof Woof, Glug Glug ||____________|| 0 | P O | Who Drowned the Judge's Dog? | . . . . . . . '----. 0 | O O | answers on *---|_______________ @__o0 | O L |{a href="news:alt.religion.scientology"}{/a}_____________|/_______| L and{a href="http://www.xemu.demon.co.uk/clam/lynx/q0.html"}{/a}XemuSP4(:)

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AU Wassenaar Wassenaar changes
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

[OK to repost to crypto lists and Cryptome - dant] I spoke this afternoon with one of the Australian delegates at the Wassenaar meeting, an official from the Dept of Foreign Affairs and Trade (DFAT). Speaking off the record, they confirmed the changes at Wassenaar are pretty much as we know already: - NEW CONTROLS on mass market crypto products (hardware and software); - DEREGULATING all weak encryption products using key lengths up to 56 bits; - EXEMPTING mass market software where the key length is 64 bits or less; - EXTENDING the same mass market exemption to hardware for the first time; - EXCLUDING encryption products that protect intellectual property, such as digital watermarking; - NO DECISION was made about regulating 'intangible' distribution of technology, including Internet downloads. Apparently in the short term the intangibles issue is being considered in other fora (including the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) which includes Australia thanks to Filthy Jabilucre et al). It is still not clear whether the new restrictions are intended to stop public domain software such as PGP*. The DFAT contact said there was no discussion about an intention to stop public domain packages like PGP. They did not think public domain was being restricted. Yet apparently the Australian DoD has expressed the David Aaron view that public domain is subject to the same restrictions as mass market. * PGP is "in the public domain" for the purposes of Wassenaar/DSGL, since the definition states: "in the public domain" (GTN NTN GSN), as it applies herein, means "technology" or "software" which has been made available without restrictions upon its further dissemination (copyright restrictions do not remove "technology" or "software" from being "in the public domain") Note: there is no equivalent definition for "mass market", but the General Software Note (GSN) states it thus: Generally available to the public by being: 1. Sold from stock at retail selling points, without restriction, by means of: a. Over-the-counter transactions; b. Mail order transactions; or c. Telephone order transactions; and 2. Designed for installation by the user without substantial support by the supplier; Dan ===== Dan Tebbutt, Technology Journalist, Melbourne Australia Australian Personal Computer (http://www.apcmag.com) LAN Corporate IT (http://www.lanlive.com) The Australian (http://www.newsit.com.au) Ph: +61-3-9347-8893 Fax:+61-2-9264-6320 Email: dant(a)acp.com.au "The revolution will be televised ... on pay-per-view."

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Alpha Options Newsletter
by feedback＠telescan.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Re: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries? (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 08:21:21 -0500 > From: John Young <jya(a)pipeline.com> > Subject: Re: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries? > More interesting to Americans, maybe, is that there also appears to be > an effort to boost domestic militia, particularly the religious brand, as the > homefront Bin Laden. The rise of religion-based terrorism is explored at > length in Bruce Hoffman's recent "Inside Terrorism." Hoffman claims that > religious terrorists may be the worst enemies ever, for they do not > believe in political compromise: they want to kill every single opponent, > and have no reservations about using WMD. 5,000 years of human history bears this thesis out. > If this theory is correct (and Hoffman has worked with RAND for years on > the issue) then the menace of terrorism is worse than that hawked during > the Cold War. The enemy is not distant, not even ICBM seconds away, > but rather it lives amongst us, it's our neighbors readying Armageddon not > merely a familiar commie takeover. This is also their biggest weakness. It's one reason the US has never been host to a large movement in the 20th century, outside the racist, anti-communist, and pro-lifers (and the first two are pretty much dead) because your neighbor probably doesn't go to the same church you do, probably not from the same part of the country. The chances of an individual opening up to their neighbor and getting a warm reception for bombing someplace is pretty low. Realisticaly, the only reason the pro-lifers get as warm a reception as they do is so many people see it as hypocritical. It's ok to kill a killer is their thinking, it is after all a form of pre-partum assissted self-defence. > Hoffman says to expect more OKCs around the globe. To be sure, that's > his business to say that. Considering the rate at which they occur now there is zero rational reason to believe these groups will cease any time in the near future. ____________________________________________________________________ If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation, it is: bullying Howard Zinn The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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US attorney notified
by bill payne 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Michell was notified that we are in the process of initiating legal action to get the lien removed. Let's hope she has the sense to do what we ask. This matter should have been settled. It is getting WORSE.

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Wassenaar News
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

We spoke with Igor at the WA today to ask about the implementation report Caspar Bowden said would be coming shortly. It seems that Dirk Weicke, the person preparing it (whom Caspar queried), is out sick and won't return to work until Thursday. Another person working on the report, a Mr. Sidbitt (?) is also out sick but should be back at work tomorrow. At the moment there is no plan to offer the report on the WA Web site. Each member will decide how to publicize it. Igor, a friendly, reminded that the WA staff has no authority, indeed has an evanescent existence, and is subject to vanishing without explanation. The paranoid WA members, my words, cut no slack, cut-throat control of perfidious news is their modus operandi. Still, Igor chuckled at my reporting that the perfidious USG will not anwser my inquiries, being unable to trust its terrifying citizenry. He refused my plea to send a purloined report, a report which, on the evidence, appears to be quite sickening.

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RE: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries?
by Brown, R Ken 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

John Young talked about the way the TLAs are whipping up the War Against Drugs and the threat od terrorists, WMDs and bogies (in English slang "bogies" are little bits of partially dried snot that plug up your nose... but that's by-the-by) and concludes with: [... If Bruce Hoffman is right ...] > then the menace of terrorism is worse than that hawked during > the Cold War. The enemy is not distant, not even ICBM seconds > away, but rather it lives amongst us, it's our neighbors readying > Armageddon not merely a familiar commie takeover. Ambulance Driver: "Yeah, Doc, there was a nasty accident out on the interstate." Dr. Bassett: "Bad one, eh?" Ambulance Driver: "Yeah, a truck and a car collided. Ya know, it was kinda funny... the truck was carrying a load of the strangest-looking seed pods." Ken Brown

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Re: y2k/gary north delusions
by Trei, Peter 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

As a former New Yorker, I find this whole thread majorly uninformed. Most of New York's water moves from the Catskills to the tap (or toilet) via gravity, without encountering a pump at any point during the way. Even if all power and automated controls failed, most of the city would continue to get water (remember - the system was designed long before computers, or even widespread electricity). The only areas with major problems would be the high spots - Washington Heights/ Spanish Harlem, some parts of the Bronx, and the upper floors of some highrises. Even assuming that somehow every toilet in the city became unusable, the decidedly lowtech solid waste disposal system (trucks to landfills in Staten Island and New Jersey, or barges to the Atlantic), would still operate. The solid volume of people's excrement is miniscule compared to the volume of material already handled. (If you think no crap goes into the system, you clearly have not spent time near in infant in the age of Pampers). I suspect that Los Angeles, and other cities which have grown recently in arid areas, would have a lot more trouble. Peter Trei

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Re: Commerce Hacked?
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 23:14:13 -0500 (EST) From: Somebody To: Robert Hettinga <rah(a)shipwright.com> Subject: Re: Commerce Hacked? Mime-Version: 1.0 Looks like he [Aaron] has been successful. No one is talking about the extortive quality of sending out the commerce minister to argue for crypto controls. Why don't they send an air force general who giggles about radiated cities between bites of rumaki. <Somebody's .sig> --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)philodox.com> Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism <http://www.philodox.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

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ATTENTION SMOKERS STOP SMOKING IMMEDIATELY
by franghjk＠skynet.be 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Anguilla attached to Wassenar Agr?
by Jim Burnes - Denver 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Since Anguilla is a UK protectorate, is it subject to Wassenar Agreement rules if the UK is a signatory? Anyone care to predict the next big crypto exporter? Brazil? Chile? Argentina? Columbia? Tonga? ;-) jim

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RE: tyranny of corporations (was: Corporate Nations)
by Albert P. Franco, II 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>>>> From: "Blanc" Also, this image of hyperindividualism doesn't seem right. I would think such an extreme degree of individualism would exclude much involvement with others, meaning they could not run corporations, because for a business to exist requires involvement in providing a service/product to the largest numbers of the population as possible, and they can only do this if this large mass of people see the value of, and accept, in preference to the offerings of the competition, what that particular corporation offers. I imagine a hyperindividual more as an independent contractor working "alone". There are dozens of examples of the Executive that comes to a new position, cuts jobs and makes other changes that make the bottom line look good in the short term. Since the sales of a very large company are not likely to "crash", this person looks good for a couple of years, then hops to a new job and the next guy catches the fallout of the short-term vision. The independent contractor on the other hand will probably never have the sales base to get away with screwing over his/her employees and clients. The independent contractor, that is not an out and out criminal, generally has to be very careful not to alienate the customers. A big corporation on the other hand can afford to lose a few thousand customers without too much trouble. A scoundrel has a much better chance of fucking over people in his/her rise to the top in a corporation than in a small company. The fly-by-night companies that are obviously rip-offs are not quite the same thing since very few people aspire to be like these folks. But the original authors point is correct in that a very large part of the population want to be able to emulate the big time self-interest seekers. APF

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Votes
by Richard.Bragg＠ssa.co.uk 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I wonder how the good 'ol Beeb will handle loads of votes from non-uk people. Especially how will they cope with anonymous remailers. I know this is off-topic cypherpunks but lets indulge in a little gentle humour. ---------------------- Forwarded by Richard Bragg/UK/SSA_EUROPE on 08/12/98 10:27 --------------------------- Hilary Davidson 08/12/98 10:24 To: UK BEC, UK Contractors BEC, Workfun cc: Subject: Votes This has to be done!! ---------------------- Forwarded by Hilary Davidson/UK/SSA_EUROPE on 08-12-98 10:23 AM --------------------------- "Ashley Lane" <adlane(a)fizzbang.demon.co.uk> on 07-12-98 10:00:39 PM To: "Andy Randerson" <andy(a)andyran.demon.co.uk>, "Marcus Lane" <marcus.lane(a)Drives.Eurotherm.com>, Hilary Davidson/UK/SSA_EUROPE, "Jonathan Cory" <jonathan_cory(a)phoenix.com>, "Jason Boxall" <JBoxall(a)lonza.co.uk> cc: Subject: Votes All, We are going to try to influence the result of the voting for BBC Sports Personality of the year. It has been decided that David Beckham would provide most embarrassment to the organisers if winning, so could you all e-mail your vote to the following address: sports.review(a)bbc.co.uk More importantly, can you forward this mail to all your mates & acquaintances asap in the hope that they will participate. Your co-operation in this matter is greatly appreciated ________________________________ The information contained in this electronic mail message is confidential. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and others authorised to receive it. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, copying, dissemination or disclosure of this information is strictly prohibited. ________________________________

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RE: tyranny of corporations (was: Corporate Nations)
by William H. Geiger III 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In <3.0.3.32.19981207161424.006ae900(a)209.204.247.83>, on 12/07/98 at 12:17 PM, "Albert P. Franco, II" <apf2(a)apf2.com> said: ><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>0000,0000,ffff</param><smaller> Please set Eudora so it does not output this junk in your messages. tks, -- --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.openpgp.net Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html ---------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: Corporate Mandarins and The Tyranny of *Hierarchy*
by Michael Motyka 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> This "sociological" analysis probably went over really well at a > touchy-feely corporate navel-gazing camp because it's more the way > some grey-flannel men *wish* they were, than the way they actually > are. > Take a look at the history of the Love Canal in Buffalo, NY or the tobacco industry and think about these as models of corporate behavior when you hire the exterminator to come onto your property to take care of some pesky ants and horribly nasty, dangerous spiders using "safe, environmentally sound" insecticides. The burden of proof is backwards all too often in evaluating the manner in which corporations treat their customers and their community. It sure looks like the corporate world has more than its fair share of major criminals to me: some of them firmly and respectably in place in Congress. They just don't hack little girls to pieces and bury them in the woods; they kill tens of thousands, slowly, and hide behind the finest suits and the sharpest lawyers. The quest for economic gain coupled with the blatant disregard for the health and safety of those around you is what is meant by hyperindividualism. It's simply greed coupled with sociopathy. Describing this as an offshoot of 20th century liberalism is way beyond me. > or even "criminals" like Rockefeller ... > This is well off-thread but I saw a movie clip of John D. from the mid 40's where he was at a podium being fingerprinted as a publicity bit to promote the FBI's policy of trying to fingerprint all Americans. Nothing new under the sun eh? Mike

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Export of PGP Illegal in Denmark. Threatened w. jail (fwd)
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 08:05:05 -0800 (PST) From: "Jay D. Dyson" <jdyson(a)techreports.jpl.nasa.gov> To: Cryptography List <cryptography(a)c2.net> Subject: Export of PGP Illegal in Denmark. Threatened w. jail (fwd) Organization: NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory X-No-Archive: yes X-PGP-Notice: E-mail me for my PGP Public Key. X-Disclaimer: Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of NASA/JPL/Caltech. X-To-Spammer: Spamming a U.S. Government institution will only get you a $500 per incident fine. MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-cryptography(a)c2.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Courtesy of Defcon Stuff. (Do I hear jackboots in the night? 'Deed I do!) Sorry, Uncle Sam. I'm a fan of cryptography, not crippletography. - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 13:45:17 +0100 From: "boo(a)datashopper.dk" <boo(a)Datashopper.Dk> To: dc-stuff(a)dis.org Subject: Export of PGP Illegal in Denmark. Threatened w. jail Hi This is a true story. Denmark now - along with the whole EU - has assimilated US-crypto laws. I just had a phone conversation with the danish ministry of commerce, the export control division. The kind lady I spoke to threatened me with fines or jail for up to two years. For having PGP for free download on my homepage! I called the division to hear about the Wassenaar arrangement on export-restrictions on strong crypto and its consequences. So I ask this lady something like: I have this strong crypto program called PGP on my homepage. What should I do. Does this Wassenaar arrangement concern me? 'It sure does', she replies, and start to ask a lot of questions about my homepage - does it have unlimited global access etc. And then she says: 'You better take it down', and starts to reiterate the legal aspects, e.g. two laws from EU on export restrictions. Specifically she points out the penal code: Fines. Jail. So... I'm _not_ going to take down PGP voluntarily. Otoh I'm going to SHOUT this out loud. (I have already contacted two members of parliament and will start calling all 179 later today.) Lets see what happens... - -- Boo PI = int a=10000,b,c=2800,d,e,f[2801],g;main(){for(;b-c;)f[b++]=a/5; for(;d=0,g=c*2;c-=14,printf("%.4d",e+d/a),e=d%a)for(b=c;d+=f[b]*a, f[b]=d%--g,d/=g--,--b;d*=b);} -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNmv8uLl5qZylQQm1AQGYPQQAhDs8XfKRLD0ECTO5LuF1iA+0Yr7B9Yon CAnKwZYAk07BYG2u/xuFEsU/xdoNTap+lVmWEwciREPL+wjF/hSWeq+/YP6uwpCb 9pkoXkMst2NnFQ6744GTYiRJMQPc4no6aaDzWwO4FnMjyIzUpD4kBPkh0MHutCAF PyXXbstG1z8= =ByGn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)philodox.com> Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism <http://www.philodox.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

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Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls
by x 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 11:53 AM 12/8/98 +0200, Tim Griffiths wrote: > >x wrote: >> >> This brings to mind again a method of distribution that I've thought for >> some time and has probably been discussed on this list before... >> For (a trivial) example take the image of PGP zipped up for download. >> Three different sites create a unique portion of that image for >> themselves, for example, each site takes every third byte, and throw >> in some additional obfuscation...It then is trivial to reconstruct >> the desired image from the independent sources, while none of the >> sources themselves can be subject to controls without having to go >> down the rat hole of having to define what really constitutes the >> restricted material... > >1. What is the point of the obfuscation? If it's not legal to do it >openly, then it's certainly not legal to hide the fact your doing it. >"The accused did it in such a way as to demonstrate that he was aware >of it's illegality". the point is not to hide anything; the point is to expand, arbitrarily (and this was a trivial example), the f() that takes bits from a controllable image to one that is not. > >2. By your example, you could also take a cruise missile apart, and >ship each part separately. After all, none of it is actually a missile. in a cruise missle, there will be certain parts -- e.g. the warhead explosives? -- that are still identifiable as controlled. taking apart the missle by n people where n is the number of 'parts' will result in some subset of participants possessing components that implicate them in an illegal act. this is simply not true of bits. What is the bit sequence that defines "munition"-ness? My point is that there is no hard point at which that can be defined, when you start talking about mappings from a controlled image to some other images which cannot be controlled. > >However I 'export' PGP from the US, I'm exporting it, even if I have a >web site for each bit, 0 or 1 being determined by whether Clinton has >a cigar or not in a posted picture. You're just asserting the assumptions I am trying to examine, and this is not helpful. You're also assuming a single participant, with accountability. I am assuming multiple participants, and that they're acting independently; let's expand this to say that one individual provides the 'algorithm' for the mapping, and any other participants are free to obtain their image out of band legally, and implement this algorithm on some portion of the image, publishing the result. Whom do you arrest? Where is the culpability? If the algorithm defines that there be 256K subimages of the original, one for each byte, say...can I be arrested for choosing to post f(byte 123,456)? Or do I get arrested for publishing f(byte 123,456) PLUS the information that identifies this byte as corresponding to byte 123,456 in the reconstruction of the original? I honestly don't know where this goes, but to just make a blanket statement like you did doesn't really add anything. >Yes, the law is inconsistent (let alone stupid). Not, I wouldn't want >to try this and expect to be immune from prosecution. > >Tim G > >-- >Tim Griffiths griffith(a)wis.weizmann.ac.il >Center for Submicron Research http://tim01.ex.ac.uk >Weizmann Institute of Science (972)-8-934-2736 >Rehovot 76100 Israel > > 'I have sat and listened to the arguments of men, > and I tell you they are shallow movements in space > tied to reality only by the ego of their minds.' -DF > > >

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RE: y2k/gary north delusions
by Trei, Peter 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Sure he did. However, geography was not accomodating, and there is at least one point where a major aqueduct is pumped over a ridge. Peter > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Hettinga [SMTP:rah@shipwright.com] > At 11:07 AM -0500 on 12/7/98, Trei, Peter wrote: > > I suspect that Los Angeles, and other cities > > which have grown recently in arid areas, would > > have a lot more trouble. > > Actually, Mulholland knew what gravity was, as well. :-). > > Cheers, > Robert Hettinga >

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