December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Impact of Netscape kernel hole
by geeman＠best.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:28 AM 6/14/97 -0400, Adam Shostack wrote: > > >| >Tim's post (although refuted by Marc) raises some serious issues since I >| >suspect that Joe Public has his secret key sitting in c:\pgp\secring.pgp > > Are FAT file lists stored as files? not exactly. you cannot just open and read. you must jump hoops; but does the nscp hole allow execution of arbitrary code? that would be much worse .... > > On a Unix box, /. refers to the file containing directory >entries, the list of files in the directory. If there is an analogous >file on a dos box, you can explore. so, no: not unless you can write your own foreign code and run it on the victim pc. (Does the bug work on Unix? I've >heard it only works if java or livescript are turned on, so it hasn't >worried me enough to investigate.) > >Adam > > > >-- >"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." > -Hume > > > >

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We need more surveillance--a morality play about terrorism
by Tim May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

[Some speculation about the current American attitudes about terrorism, about the changes in civil liberties to deal with the "terrorist threat," and even some comments about Jim Bell and his predicament.] I've been watching an HBO movie, "Path to Paradise," about the bombing of the World Trade Center in February 1993. It's quite well-done, as most HBO movies of this sort are. However, it is fairly heavy on a propaganda message which may give some insights into the likely changes in political freedoms in the United States. Some examples: * repeated examples of how the cops and FBI _could have_ arrested the Arabs if only the Constitution could be reinterpreted to allow arrests for possession of political pamphlets, guns (legally owned), etc. * "You mean Islamic radicals are free to preach their message of hate and violence? Unbelievable!" (This is a paraphrase...there were several such opinions expressed, where FBI managers express outrage that such things are permitted in the U.S.) * The niceties of getting wiretap orders were treated as ways to coddle criminals. * The ease with which citizen-units and others can order chemicals and suchlike was shown graphically, with the subtext being that this easy ordering ought to be stopped. (This was clear from the dramatic presentation.) * Unlike many such movies on criminal matters, there was very little discussion of civil rights, of the right of persons to move about freely, and so on. In short, a morality play about the hazards of letting people plot their crimes without proper surveillance. Not to sound conspiratorial, I suspect that this changed climate is consistent with the views of the FBI and White House, and that HBO is playing some role (unofficially, of course, and maybe not even consciously) in this new emphasis. (In the same way that the Rambo movies, to name just one example, resonated with American popular opinion in the Reagan era.) Speculation: This may also have something to do with the "no bail" predicament Bell now faces. The "stink bomb" he allegedly used in an IRS building could be Sarin gas, putatively, given the claims that he had Sarin precursors. Now we may mostly think he's harmless, but the combination of this new "let's get tough on terrorist plotters" mood, combined with the chemical stuff they found, his calls for killing of government agents, his apparent willingness to use chemical bombs (so the claim goes), all add up to a "get tough" outcome. Whether it stays this way past his arraignment in a few weeks is of course unknown. (Any magistrate or DA who watches this HBO movie might be wondering if releasing Bell would be turning him loose to launch a Sarin gas attack on his Fed enemies. I don't think this is a plausible threat, knowing what I know of Bell.) Something to think about. Between the World Trade Center bombing and OKC, there seem to be more people saying that certain civil liberties need to be given up to ensure security. Where have we heard this before? (Hint: back in Ben Franklin's day.) --Tim May, who's sorry he missed the display of firepower at the physical meeting today There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws. Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!" ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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THE BEST DEAL AROUND.... PERIOD!
by 52622216＠compuserve.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Re: Responses to "Spam costs and questions" (long)
by Ross Wright 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On or About 6 Jun 97 at 23:41, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: > If you set up your mailbox to accept e-mail promiscuously from > anyone, then anything sent to it is "consentual". Exactly. And if you put an e-mail address on a web-site, it's fair game. You consent to have me, at least, comment. > The onus is on the recipient to filter out what they don't want (or And not the onus of the Government to save us from the nasty bad evil spammers. > to "filter in" only what they want, which is how I think we'll end > up). Such filtering takes less time+effort than "repeated > cease-and-desist notes". Like any spammer listens to those anyway. I was sent so many of those when I started, it didn't scare me at all. But now I'm a reformed, kinder, gentler spammer. Most times they don't even know they've been spammed. On or About 7 Jun 97 at 13:53, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: > talk about this (and I do hope Ross will will this of interest!), > let's You bet. I'm bummed that I missed out on this whole conversation, it's a week old now. On or About 7 Jun 97 at 13:53, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: > Also instead of just building the biggest possible list of e-mail > addresses, they build a targeted database, keeping track where a > particular e-mail address was found. That's right. I've got different lists for the different places that I harvested them from. > Suppose a person subscribes to > a "porsche owners" mailing list, and goes to an investment- related > channel on one of the IRC servers. In no time he'll be getting "junk > e-mail" related to the interests he expressed - possibly even saying > "I'm writing you because I saw you on the #invest channel on > Tuesday, and I want to tell you about this hot new penny stock" > > Left to itself, the market will stabilize and the occasional > unsolicited bulk e-mail will be even less of a nuisance than it is > now. Please. I beg all of you just to let it settle it's self. No regulation is needed, or wanted. It's not that bad. On or About 7 Jun 97 at 13:37, Declan McCullagh wrote: > Such a law would be unconstitutional, I believe, and unjust. It's > compelled speech: the government forcing you to say something. I don't want anyone telling me what I have to put into the subject field of my bulk e-mailings. > Depending on how it's worded, it could also impact core political > speech, something the courts generally don't like. > > -Declan On or About 8 Jun 97 at 5:36, Declan McCullagh wrote: > I don't think commercial speech should be treated as second-class > speech. But my position is hardly surprising. > Declan, thanks. You are right that speech is speech. On or About 9 Jun 97 at 23:45, Kent Crispin wrote: And here's where it degrades into discussions about ads and sales tactics and all that stuff that the general public is so frightened of. It's like salesmen are the reviled, untouchables in our society. Needed but hated. These topics always fall to the level of the morals of given marketing strategies. That's not what this is about. It's about freedom to tell people about a product in any way that you can. > > When a tobacco company says in an ad, "Joe Camel is cool", what > > kind of contractual obligations does it assume? > > None. I did not say that all ads were part of a contract. > > > Have you ever bought a used car, Kent? Have you seen the language > > in the contract that throws out whatever promises the saleguy made > > that are not a part of the contract? > > Yes, but never from a used-car lot, always from people I know. I > have =-=-=-=-=-=- Ross Wright King Media: Bulk Sales of Software Media and Duplication Services http://www.slip.net/~cdr/kingmedia Voice: (408) 259-2795

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Re: Impact of Netscape kernel hole
by Ross Wright 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On or About 13 Jun 97 at 18:35, Tom Weinstein wrote: > week for 4.0. A fix for 3.x will follow once we have 4.0 fixed. Saw this post to Cypherpunks. I hate to sound less than savvy, but I use 2.02. You guys are gonna help us who refuse to upgrade, right. Ross =-=-=-=-=-=- Ross Wright King Media: Bulk Sales of Software Media and Duplication Services http://www.slip.net/~cdr/kingmedia Voice: (408) 259-2795

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Netscape Update
by lucifer＠dhp.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Robert Hettinga wrote: > All this reminds me of something Tim May, Eric Hughes, and others have said > before. Once you've gotten to the point where loss of security equals, in a > very literal sense, loss of money, the incentive to publicize any given > security hole starts to go away. The Netscape PR department is no doubt preparing to spin the "bug fix" into a "major update." The fact of the matter is, the software does exactly what it was designed to do. The fact that those who are "out of the loop" found out how to use that designed feature does not make it a "bug." When the list got spammed with email from 10,000 Laker fans named "Bubba," I blasted plaidworks.com for their rudeness in trying to place all the blame on "hackers" when the fact was that they left their system wide open to abuse for the sake of convenience and profit. Similarly, the government and corporations want systems designed to allow them access to all available information passing through the internet system and then cry "abuse" or "security bug" when individuals discover how to use the design to their advantage. Calling the Netscape feature a "bug" merely serves to draw attention away from the fact that the software was intentionally designed in order to facilitate snooping (ala Clipper chip?) and that indicates that there have been people who have known how to take advantage of the feature since its implementation. Do the people who instituted the design and development of this snooping feature all have "Good Guy" stamped on their forhead? Sure they do... TruthMonger

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Re: We need more surveillance--a morality play about terrorism
by lucifer＠dhp.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tim May wrote: > I've been watching an HBO movie, "Path to Paradise," about the bombing of > the World Trade Center in February 1993. It's quite well-done, as most HBO > movies of this sort are. > > However, it is fairly heavy on a propaganda message which may give some > insights into the likely changes in political freedoms in the United > States. > In short, a morality play about the hazards of letting people plot their > crimes without proper surveillance. > > Not to sound conspiratorial, I suspect that this changed climate is > consistent with the views of the FBI and White House, and that HBO is > playing some role (unofficially, of course, and maybe not even consciously) > in this new emphasis. The movies have long been a source of propaganda for LEA's of all types and descriptions, as well as the military. You want co-operation? You want to get bargin rates on access to city (or military) facilities, streets, vehicles, etc? If so, then you'd better be prepared to present an "acceptable" script to those who make the decisions. The military and LEA's know that they are in a position to save movie producers millions of dollars through their co-operation and producers know that an acceptable script is the ante that may well make the difference between their movie being produced or canned. Cop shows are the rage on TV at present, and if you can find a major force of real-life cops that call everyone "Sir" and treat them like humans, I'll kiss your ass, but that's what we see on the Tube, anyway. It would cost a fucking fortune to produce a similar show which reflected the reality of how LEA's treat the citizens. I have a friend who was casting director for "Miami Vice" and I recall her telling me at an early point in the series that they were being forced, for financial reasons, to "clean up" the scripts so as to make the cops more sympathetic and reputable characters. Face it, we live in TV World. We didn't get an actor as our President by "accident." We elect "sound bytes" and "charisma." We elect "plausible deniability" and "non-smoking guns." We are sold fear and violence both as news and entertainment, and we "buy" it as our reality. Then our fear is used to sell us products such as loss of privacy and freedom. This is the consumer age, and it is driven by advertising and profit. In the Media Age the marketing term "find a need and fill it" has become "_create_ a need and fill it." There's big money in fear and violence. TruthMonger

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Re: Netscape Exploit
by lucifer＠dhp.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tom Weinstein wrote: > Lucky Green wrote: > > > > >Here is a sample it isn't complete but you get the basic idea of what > > is > > >going on > > ><HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Evil-DOT-COM Homepage</TITLE><HEAD> ... > Yeah, that's pretty cool. Too bad it doesn't work. If you wanted a version that works you should have checked out the RCMP site that one of the Truth Mongers (or spin-offs) pointed to on the list a while back. It had a nifty bit of code which showed you the contents of your own hard drive and grabbed a copy for their own use. There was also a site on sympatico.ca which had the same code, only the link read "Click here to read the Whitehouse hard drive." If you followed further links on the site some would take a long time to load and if you paid attention you could guess that your hard drive was being accessed. I turned a friend onto the files I saved from the sites and I assume he hacked at least one of them to get the executables that they were running since he bought me a case of Budweiser for sharing the information with him. I have noticed in surfing a variety of hacker URLs that sometimes it takes an awfully long time to load what turns out to be a fairly simple screen and there is invariably a lot of disk activity going on in these instances. I don't worry about what may be taking place since I bought a used computer specifically for internet cruising so I can enjoy myself instead of fretting about security issues. I put a lot of files and directories on my hard drive with names like "Offthepigs" and "assass.plot" and cruised around the RCMP site from an anonymous account. I used the name of a local cop as the ostensible owner of the machine and author of the files. (I _do_ hope they were paying attention!) There was an article on computer security on the RCMP site which spoke quite openly about the potential of technology in general and remailers in specific for mounting sting operations. (I will try to dig up the URL for it and pass it along. It should be in the list archives too.) ~~~~~~~~~ Not a cop ~~~~~~~~~

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Re: e$: Skins vs. Shirts
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tom Weinstein wrote: >Just to be clear, we didn't give the blackmailer any money. As Mike >Homer put it: "We don't bargain with terrorists." That's rather inflammatory name-calling. Sounds a bit Kallstromish, no? Surely Homer hasn't been hanging with the CT-hypers. However, it confirms Tim's surmise that we're facing an inflation of terrorist-spin to whatever feeds nightsweats of monsters coming to Ballmer our babies -- of flesh, markets or surveilling features. Still, is it any surprise to the burgeoning snoopers (prurient, commercial or law) that most personal computer disks are as empty of content as those of data banks, government, military, corporations and other XXX sites? They're stuffed with make-work idleness, slightly Dilberted with lonely-guy infowar & -love games of fantasies of what will never be. Recall Mitnick's find on The Well, Shimomura, the telcos and the feds -- lots of empty data and wannabe-prattle. In that case, the Feds and the victims conspired to script a film to make the nothingness seem valuable, when what they really feared that it would be shown to be worthless junk. Not that NSCP would sink to that kind of RSA Schwartau TLA insecurity.

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I love http://www.intraday.com/spam/spam/spam
by dlv＠bwalk.dm.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

It's hilarious!! Many thanks to whomever put it up --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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Key Ass-crow
by lucifer＠dhp.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Paul Bradley wrote: > > Can someone explain the difference between key recovery and key > > escrow? > Key escrow is where your keys are held by one or more trusted and > supposedly independent third parties, on reciept of a court order they > would release the keys. Kind of like trusting a friend not to bugger you while you are drunk and passed out. (But he can't prevent the police from hauling you in for public intoxication and locking you up with someone who might do so.) > But in the end it all comes down to GAK (government access to keys), same > shit, different name. This is much like having a Dominatrix who chains you to the toilet and brings out a mixed bag of utensils and instruments which are about to be used for purposes that are a far cry from what they were created for, and to access areas that Nature never intended to be subjected to large amounts of sunshine. Perhaps someone should come out with a GAK T-shirt which has a citizen "assuming the position" while a GAK cop stands behind him with a crowbar stuck halfway up the citizen's ass, and saying, "If you don't have anything to hide, then you have nothing to worry about." AssMonger

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Re: IBM sues critics?
by William H. Geiger III 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <1.5.4.32.19970614201321.009a8b38(a)pop.pipeline.com>, on 06/14/97 at 04:13 PM, John Young <jya(a)pipeline.com> said: >Secret Squirrel wrote: >>According to a usually reliable contact in a position to know, IBM Friday >>filed a liable suit against the 11 authors of the study >>titled "The risks of key recovery, key escrow and trusted third-party >>encryption" plus their employers and the Centere for Democracy and >>Technology, which sponsored the report. According to my contact, IBM >>feels that the report directly targets their own key recovery system, >>and falsely implies that it isn't reliable. They are asking for >>unspecified damages. >If this report is true it's worth taking a look at IBM's policy paper >"The need for a global cryptographic policy framework" to understand why >the key study report is such a threat to >Blue's global market strategy: > http://www.ibm.com/security/html/pp_global.html >IBM's economic incentive to attack the report is substantial, not least >because it hopes to garner the lion's share of global GAK -- >not that that's news. Has there been any conformation on this? I would like to get in touch with some of my contacts at IBM but would like to have some info on this first. Thanks, - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBM6VncI9Co1n+aLhhAQE7VQQAuDOBM3aqTCbaK/5nPLl1TLaAkHWSIC4h /eOJFw7/EJ1ZQWGj5lxHg2es6+MFSrue5/KnOn0evsJtLnQjX4icYyhzhao2cXYY 9EPaew0FMLHRtJrB0sXlWOeyteRqFstVEkQb7jtqUqxbjNU1A/FZlbr7dclRZ56B nVTBAqZBOzA= =tD2h -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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eDrugs / Re: e$: Skins vs. Shirts
by lucifer＠dhp.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Robert Hettinga wrote: > At 8:21 am -0400 on 6/15/97, John Young wrote: > > > ... Sounds a bit Kallstromish... > > Surely Homer hasn't been hanging with the CT-hypers. > > ...an inflation of > > terrorist-spin to whatever feeds nightsweats of monsters coming to > > Ballmer our babies -- of flesh, markets or surveilling features. > > .......slightly Dilberted with lonely-guy > > infowar & -love games of fantasies of what will never be. ... > > Not that NSCP would sink to that kind of RSA Schwartau TLA insecurity. > > Wow. I actually understood all that... > > The scent of the cogs is unmistakable hereabouts. Hetting and Young both pass on a variety of highly informative and exceedingly normal, reality-based material for the most part. Then, out of the blue, they post Taoist-Kerouac, acid-flashback missives which indicate that the Orphan Zombies roaming the computer Nether- world have not yet managed to steal their souls. Since John and Bob's psyche-meanderings often seem to occur within the same time-frame I have concluded that they both have the same drug connection. So...did you bring enough for everybody? DrugMonger

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Blackmail / Re: e$: Skins vs. Shirts
by lucifer＠dhp.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tim May wrote: > At 1:26 AM -0700 6/15/97, Tom Weinstein wrote: > > >Just to be clear, we didn't give the blackmailer any money. As Mike > >Homer put it: "We don't bargain with terrorists." > (What the Danes offered was a straight buiness deal, albeit made weirder > and more frantic by the constraints of time, publicity, and worldwide > attention. Still a business deal, though. When Collabra wanted X dollars to > be acquired by Netscape, was this also "terrorism"? The term "terrorist" > hardly applies in business deals.) As Tim almost points out, people who use their own time, resources and money to examine your product and discover weaknesses in it which can be corrected in order to make it a better product hardly qualify as blackmailers (unless a company considers that their in-house QA staff is "blackmailing" them to receive a salary). (Pay attention, Netscape--major CLUE coming up...) It is not the consumer or user's job to keep track of what the company who produces the software deems to be "proper" use of the product they have bought. Likewise, it is not the job of computer analysts and researchers to search out the flaws in a profitable software and give away their knowledge so that the producer of the software can maintain or increase their profits. If the people who discovered the flaw had wanted they could have chosen to sell their knowledge to Microsoft for probably a very substantial sum. Can you imagine the embarassing position Netscape would be in if Bill Gates made a press announcement about the Netscape flaw and informed the public that a "Netscape fix" was available at microsoft.com? TruthMonger

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SnailMail Ver. 1.0 / Re: Impact of Netscape kernel hole
by lucifer＠dhp.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

David E. Smith wrote: > On Sun, 15 Jun 1997, Tom Weinstein wrote: > > Sorry, but we don't have any plans to respin 2.x at this time. If we > > get enough requests for it, it might be possible to change our mind, > > though. > > I still have a copy of MCOM/Netscape Navigator 0.94 around... does the > bug exist this far back, or am I going to have to start using Cello, > or something equally obscure? SnailMail Version 1.0 will soon be coming out. The product includes a pen, paper, envelopes and instructions on how to purchase stamps. While it does not offer perfect security, the chances are that the only person who might snoop through it is your postman. Since he is probably banging your spouse, he's practically a member of the family, anyway. SnailMail Version 1.0 also includes letter-size envelopes so that you can print out a copy of your Web page and mail it without bending or folding it. SnailMonger

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Re: Spam Libs (Frauenfelder on HotWired)
by Rich Graves 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- C Matthew Curtin <cmcurtin(a)research.megasoft.com> wrote: > * Sometimes my mail relay seems to choke on spam, and sends back a > packet with a MSG_OOB bit sent to the host that originated the > spam. Gee, dunno how that happened. Sometimes if the host stays > up after that, it's followed by an oversized ping. Shucks, that's > too bad when that happens. Maybe one day I'll track down that, uh, > bug and ... fix it. Damn... this bug must spread like the Good Times Virus. Mine just started showing one of these symptoms, too, but only when approached by certain domains (it being impolite to hit people who've been framed). Have you isolated any code fragments that might help a virus scanner detect this problem? This must be stopped, and I think full disclosure might help. - -rich http://www.stanford.edu/~llurch/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQBVAwUBM6RU7pNcNyVVy0jxAQHC9wH/Wi0lty3BWv4NjDYbmoNL2KZrqEkr1LTq uJBCTW5xwgSnZlZOy3ZEW1+qHTfC3rvTEXQhUjM1Fdk/4yZC5iuoQA== =YPKa -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Impact of Netscape kernel hole
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dave Smith wrote: >I still have a copy of MCOM/Netscape Navigator 0.94 around... does the >bug exist this far back, or am I going to have to start using Cello, >or something equally obscure? Dave suggests the key to Netscape's Andreesen's amazing trajectory from lab rat gizmoid to market leader, while others languish uncompensated, at least just yet. It's Mark's changeable feature for peeking and tracking, approved by law for orderly commerce. "Bugs bounty" is the make light of it charade, while "bug" is the venerable hardware name. Find the first few, sure, that's for easy diversion, find those somewhat deeper, those're for sweeping by the seasoned pros. Then there are those that are never found, the ones that always tell what's needed to know in national emergency but can never be revealed. Perhaps any day now MS and NSCP will morph to push browser GAK, claiming that public privacy and secure commerce demand protection from cyber-terrorists. That's the theme, hey, hey, of the Denver meet of global leaders on June 20. Could it be that that's what the Silicon chiefs went to DC to plan last week while speechifying contrarily to CNN, C-SPAN and Declan. Surely, though, bountifully trusty PGP is not party to this G-10 globalization of crippled crypto, or at least not its Chief Technology Officer, right? BTW, Declan's spin on national affairs is starting to smell of pontification to the masses, classis sign of "if only you knew what I've been let in on." Shimomuraism, that, empty data.

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Congratulations! We found your website!
by submitking 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Re: Democratic Assassination
by Paul Bradley 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> > Speaking entirely hypothetically: If assasination bots were implemented, > > and I ran one, I would choose to keep a list of poloticians, DEA cops, > > censors etc. and only allow contracts on them, of course, there is > > nothing to stop anyone else running a server that accepted bets on > > anyone. I would just choose not to allow my equipment to be used for > > hiring assasins to kill innocent people. > > But by using this system, aren't we removing the concept of what an > 'innocent' person is anyway? A person 'deserves' to die when enough people > or money dictates that they should. I believe in this sense a DAP system would be a bad thing, but anonymous digital contracts in the more direct sense (ie. just a normal assasination contract as agreed today in meatspace, but using digital cash and other systems to make payments untraceable) are a better option as they remove this democratic side to the killings (although the democratic method prevents frivolous killings). I am not at all saying that a person "deserves" to die when enough people say they should, but merely describing the situation. It is currently the case that when someone becomes A. unpopular enough in public opinion, or B. unpopular with someone with a lot of money, they stand a chance of being killed for this. > Effectively you're censoring votes > for the assasination of a person who you don't feel deserves it - no matter > how many people donate money to that cause. > This destroys the whole 'democratic' idea of what this ideas about. Whoa there! An assasination bot and the hardware it ran on would be private property, I can choose to censor whatever the hell I want on private property. I personally would not run an AP type bot that democratised the process of assasination, as I have said I favour the probable outcome of a more direct contract system, but whether I did or not it is my decision who I accept bets on. If I choose to only accept bets on innocent children and old ladies, that is my own decision on my own property. Business suceeds through reputation, remember the basic principles of the free market... > Also, how do you tell the difference between an 'evil' and 'innocent' > DEA cop? ROFL, the very notion of an innocent DEA cop is a joke... Datacomms Technologies data security Paul Bradley, Paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk Paul(a)crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul(a)cryptography.uk.eu.org Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/ Email for PGP public key, ID: FC76DA85 "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"

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The Cartoon Decency Act, from The Netly News
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

*********** http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/opinion/0,1042,1055,00.html The Netly News Network June 13, 1997 The Cartoon Decency Act? by Declan McCullagh (declan(a)well.com) We all know what threats confront our children today: War. Hunger. Poverty. Ignorance. But animated cartoon characters on the Net? Actually, the Center for Media Education and its allies ignored the others and just zeroed in on the looming menace of Net-toons yesterday during the Federal Trade Commission's interminable privacy hearings. CME's Shelley Pasnik warned, "Animated product spokescharacters are coming into our childrens' computers... Parents are deeply troubled by the intrusive nature of the online [world] coming into our homes." Hadn't she read Kurt Anderson's editorial in The New Yorker this week, that the onslaught of 'toons signals a cultural renaissance in the U.S.? Doh! The Center for Media's alarums sound familiar. Supporters of the notorious Communications Decency Act cried that "pornography is coming into our home computers" and used the same excuse of "protecting children" to justify passing the law. [...] Next came Michael Brody from the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry, who cranked up the rhetoric even more. "Ronald McDonald is so very busy in a cyberspace with no child rules. With entertainment and advertising totally merged, Ronald exploits children easily," Brody said. "Cholesterol is not the real public health menace on Ronald's web site, but the invasion and destruction of a child's fantasy life." Good thing he hadn't seen HotWired's Cocktail site. [...]

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Tired of Not Making Money on the Internet?
by Grayson 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Send your letter to 10,000 people or 100,000 people - the cost is always the same. Nothing! While the misinformed continue using such programs as Pegasus for sending mass e-mails to the same old prospects, you'll be using BULKMAN-PRO to e-mail 16,000 + per day that are new and never have received mass email before. Do you really have the time or desire to try and figure this out for yourself? Stripping addresses yourself using the old methods is a time consuming, boring affair. You may see others shouting promises of how easy their program is, BUT while your competitor is actually mailing out their sales letter you're EITHER still stripping or stuck in the "I'll get to it" syndrome! If you buy and use any bulk e-mail list you will also get flamed, and/or mail bombed. Your account will still be terminated. These list are filled with traps, sysops, education, government and non-profit organizations just waiting to shut you down or post "Net Abuse" articles about you. 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If that isn't enough, it will even extract addresses from any number of selected newsgroups right off your host news server just like NetContact. You can select to exclude any type of addresses from being captured very easily. X-15 also has built in "Email Cloaking" to allow you to use your own local ISP for sending your mail with, avoiding having to search for bulk friendly ISP's or other undesirable means to accomplish mass mailings. Click here to view X-15. ELM is a Email List Manager that will allow you to easily manage all your lists with just your mouse. Here is some of the tasks accomplished by ELM: * 1) Compare and remove differences between any two lists. * 2) Merge any kind and number of lists and will auto sort and remove duplicates quickly. * 3) Split any list into smaller list. * 4) Generate targeted lists that matches your target audience to use with X-15 in mailing your message to. * 5) Generate AOL addresses from captured AOL chat rooms. 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I will reveal to you the right way so you can stop doing it the wrong way. Let the competition continue doing it the old way so you can cash in on their ignorance. You will NOT find this information anywhere else. It is extremely confidential. You will be asked to sign a non-disclosure with your order to prevent the disclosure of this information. If you are currently happy with your e-mail marketing, then it makes even more sense to use this program to compliment your existing marketing to maximize your marketing efforts because there is simply nothing like this! BULKMAN-PRO was designed to sell for $1695.95 It is a Professional Bulk E-mail system. Order within 10 days from the date on this message and you get: The X-15 Rocket Mailer Retail $499.00 CSA Address Generator $395.00 AOL Address Generator $495.00 Bulk E-mail Tools & Guide $299.00 Get the COMPLETE package for a INTRODUCTORY Price of $499.95 plus $3.50 Shipping & Handling. All orders received after the tenth day following the date on this MESSAGE will be charged the normal discounted rate of $699.95 plus $3.50 Shipping & Handling Also included if you order within the next 10 days: BONUS*** FREE Newsgroup Posting device which allows you to post 1 or 1,000 newsgroups at once. FREE Bulk E-mail Extractor that allows you to extract e-mail addresses from the Internet. SAVE $200 - ORDER today! Take Advantage of the 10 DAY DISCOUNT SPECIAL! The BULKMAM PRO comes with a 100% UNCONDITIONAL MONEY BACK GUARANTEE. You have everything to GAIN and NOTHING to lose! FOR YOUR CONVENIENCE WE ACCEPT ALL FORMS OF PAYMENT CASH, CHECK, M.O., CREDIT CARD, CHECKS BY FAX, PHONE OR E-MAIL. MAKE ALL CHECKS PAYABLE TO: PHOENIX INTERACTIVE BULKMAN PRO is the complete Internet Business in a Box. ROCKET YOUR WAY TO WEALTH IN CYBERSPACE! NON-DISCLOSURE I Agree not to reveal, make available the information I am to receive from Jim Smyser to anyone. This information is confidential, and I hereby agree to keep it strictly confidential and to myself. Signature: ____________________________________ GUARANTEE: YOU HAVE A LIMITED 10 GRACE PERIOD in which you can return your purchase for full refund if it does not meet your requirements. After 10 days there are no refunds. Please understand this policy before ordering. TO GUARANTEE YOU GET THE INTRODUCTORY PRICE PLEASE INCLUDE A COPY OF THIS MESSAGE AND DATE RECEIVED. (Name)_________________________________________ (Address)______________________________________ (City, State & Zip)____________________________ e-mail address ________________________________ WE ACCEPT CHECKS OVER THE TELEPHONE, OR BY FAX for your orders. Fax your order to: 213-737-1497 Enclosed is a check for $___________ Check Ordering Info: MAKE ALL CHECKS PAYABLE TO: PHOENIX INTERACTIVE Name (exactly as it appears on check _______________________________________ Check # Dollar Amount ________________ $________________ Telephone # __________________ Bank Name: _____________________ Bank Address ______________________________________________ Numbers at Bottom of Check(read from left to right, please indicate blank spaces with a space: ________________________________________________ Charge My (VISA) or (MASTERCARD) or (AMEX) Number _ _ _ _ -_ _ _ _ -_ _ _ _ -_ _ _ _ Expiration Date _____ Approved ______________ (card holder) Credit Card orders call 1(213)-737-1494 DISTRIBUTORS: Snail mail Address Phoenix@Global Enterprises Global Enterprises P.O. Box 88506 7025 OldTrail Road Los Angeles, CA 90009 Suite9178 Fort Wayne, IN 46899 ANOTHER PHOENIX @ GLOBAL ASSOCIATION

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online-gamb.htm
by Damaged Justice 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

interactiveJumpstart Spotlight [1]Phillips Publishing International, Inc. Online Gambling Exec Praises Shutdown of Gaming Site courtesy: Multimedia Wire The chairman of an online gambling industry ethics panel praised the effort of the Maryland attorney general to close down a gambling Web site as an early move to regulate the fledgling online casino industry. Attorney General J. Joseph Curran issued a cease-and-desist order against RealTIME Prizes Network for running Prizes.com, a site that offers a variety of pay-for-play sweepstakes through customers' credit cards or through CyberCash. Online gambling can be done legally and legitimately, but only by working with government regulators, said Kendell Lang, chairman of an Interactive Services Association panel devising ethics for online casino operators and CEO of CasinoWorld Holdings. RealTIME has "flown in the face of regulators and gives the industry a bad name," Lang said. "We want to support the attorneys general of each and every state to get control of the situation." Curran targeted RealTIME because its operations are in Silver Spring, Md., a spokesman said. The attorney general could take additional action if RealTIME were to move to another state and accept business from Maryland residents, he added. Despite the desist order, Prizes.com was still operational yesterday. RealTIME was not immediately available for comment. [2]Home | [3]Free Email Newsletters | [4]Membership Invitation [5]Daily Hot News | [6]Marketing & Research | [7]Deals [8]Spotlight | [9]Developers Corner | [10]Classifieds _________________________________________________________________ © Copyrighted material 1997. It is unlawful to copy, reproduce or retransmit in any medium or format without written permission from Phillips Business Information, Inc. References 1. http://www.phillips.com/ 2. http://www.ijumpstart.com/ 3. http://www.ijumpstart.com/freee.htm 4. http://www.ijumpstart.com/membrinv.htm 5. http://www.ijumpstart.com/hotnews.htm 6. http://www.ijumpstart.com/mkt_rsch.htm 7. http://www.ijumpstart.com/deals.htm 8. http://www.ijumpstart.com/spotlite.htm 9. http://www.ijumpstart.com/developr.htm 10. http://www.ijumpstart.com/class.htm

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Re: We need more surveillance--a morality play about terrorism
by Rich Graves 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Tim May <tcmay(a)got.net> wrote: > I've been watching an HBO movie, "Path to Paradise," about the > bombing of the World Trade Center in February 1993. It's quite > well-done, as most HBO movies of this sort are. Maybe I'll get a TV one of these days. Nah. > * "You mean Islamic radicals are free to preach their message of > hate and violence? Unbelievable!" (This is a paraphrase...there > were several such opinions expressed, where FBI managers express > outrage that such things are permitted in the U.S.) I can't even imagine anyone in the FBI saying anything like that. In the National Security (tm) establishment and local police forces, yes, but the FBI is pretty professional, and has heard of the First Amendment. In this case, though, there was the additional issue of Rachman being an illegal alien. (I'm not a big fan of border controls of any kind, but I do consider political hostility to the US to be a legitimate reason for a state to bar someone from entry and residence. Bleeding hearts aside, poverty and lack of language and job skills are also legitimate reasons to bar people at the golden door.) It's fashionable to romanticize the enemy as big national or supranational thugs, but in reality the corrupt local cop is the bigger civil liberties threat to most normal people. On the "other side": Look, more people died from car accidents in the last 12 days than died in the bombing of the Murrah Federal Building, and far fewer still (or was it nobody?) died in the World Trade Center. By the numbers, terrorism just doesn't deserve the press coverage it gets. McVeigh would have done better if he'd started an automobile factory. It worked for Henry Ford; how many copies of The International Jew and The Protocols of the Elders of Zion did he print with the money he made, and how long did respectable antisemitism delay the US entry into WWII? Food for thought. If you really want to influence people over the long term, make money, not bombs. William Pierce is on the wrong track. > * The niceties of getting wiretap orders were treated as ways to > coddle criminals. This does happen, and bugs me (so to speak). > --Tim May, who's sorry he missed the display of firepower at the > physical meeting today One of these days I'll make it to the firing range. You also missed a revealing story over dinner, which probably meant something different to me than the storyteller intended, but there it is. A guy on the way to the shooting range is pulled over for speeding. The cop notices the guns, orders him out of the car, and asks where he's going. He answers, "Let me explain the way I think this country works. I am going wherever I damn well please." So the cop gives him a speeding ticket, and he continues on his way. Now tell me, is this evidence that we're living in a police state? Of course it probably helped that the guy was white, and probably driving a "decent" car, and carrying "decent" guns and not some "Saturday Night Special." But still, I don't see the totalitarianism. While it wasn't covered in human rights school, I don't think the FBI should sit idly by and let terrorists sponsored by the government of Iran blow people up, either. And so they didn't sit idly by. They waited for probable cause. And lost one. Oops. A few random bombings seems a reasonable price to pay for all our freedoms, though, especially since it probably couldn't have been prevented in the first place. But by all means, keep the paranoia coming. That's what keeps this country more or less free. Far better to have frogs hopping wild and free (as God designed them) than sitting in the pot talking about how nice and warm the water is. Just don't lose it so badly that you start endorsing the bombing of the World Trade Center and the Murrah Federal Building, please. - -rich http://www.stanford.edu/~llurch/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 4.5 iQBVAwUBM6SCkJNcNyVVy0jxAQFWvAH/U8KiLVrrtq/NNSOzJWGPJuP2n7wM/6oU KvymiZkTRqMS+5WLY5WTomnVCgKcc0IQ9eMDFO0UgJf5vI28YE2VtQ== =EP88 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Homer on Terrorism
by nobody＠huge.cajones.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tom Weinstein wrote: > Tim May wrote: > > Tom Weinstein wrote: > >> Tim May wrote: > > > >>> (What the Danes offered was a straight buiness deal, albeit made > >>> weirder and more frantic by the constraints of time, publicity, and > >>> worldwide attention. Still a business deal, though.) > what he said > was something like: > "Pay me lots of money or I will go to the press in such a way as to > damage you the most." > > That is blackmail. It's clear that the money is to prevent the damage, > not just for the information. This happens every day in major-league business ballparks. Information --> is power is --> money. Usually the word "blackmail" surfaces when one company takes a shit-kicking from the other company. Methinks the reason the word "blackmail" so easily springs to the lips of Netscape exec's is that they know they got caught with their pants down. They designed their code so that they or John Law could put their dicks in our hard drives and wiggle them around and now they are accusing the guy who has "pictures" of their guilt of doing something dirty. Although Netscape is claiming the "high ground" by saying they don't pay "blackmail," I think it is much more likely that they didn't need to *pay* for the information because they already *knew* exactly what the other company had discovered. Netscape calls their upcoming patch a "bug fix" when, in reality, it is the disabling of a "secret feature." Thus I wouldn't be too quick to accept their definition of "blackmail." > > Browsers are big business, and high stakes poker. It's not surprising > > to me to see this kind of bluffing and "terorrism" (to quote Homer, > > with his rosy-fingered typing). What's surprising is that it hasn't > > happened more often, or at least hasn't gotten as much publicity. It probably doesn't get reported very often because a company usually doesn't have foreknowledge of the problem (i.e. it is a genuine "bug" in their product) and thus it is in their best interest to pay to find out the specifics of the problem. When you're innocent of wrongdoing, it's called a business negotiation. When you're guilty of wrongdoing, its called blackmail? So if Tom Weinstein calls it blackmail, then I guess that pretty much indicates Netscape's position in regard to their browser's ability to be used to compromise the user's privacy and security. TruthMonger

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Current wording of SAFE criminal use provision
by Steve Schear 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>From Thomas: http://rs9.loc.gov/cgi-bin/cpquery105/1?cp105:./temp/~cp105mvbg:e7198 --begin Sec. 2805. Unlawful use of encryption in furtherance of a criminal act `Any person who, in the commission of a felony under a criminal statute of the United States, knowingly and willfully encrypts incriminating communications or information relating to that felony with the intent to conceal such communications or information for the purpose of avoiding detection by law enforcement agencies or prosecution-- `(1) in the case of a first offense under this section, shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or fined in the amount set forth in this title, or both; and `(2) in the case of a second or subsequent offense under this section, shall be imprisoned for not more than 10 years, or fined in the amount set forth in this title, or both.'. --end --Ste5e

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