December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: 128_bit
by Vin McLellan 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>2-26-97. Newsbytes: > >Security Dynamics Unveils RSA SecurPC 2.0 > > Wokingham, England, By Steve Gold. Security Dynamics has unveiled > RSA SecurPC 2.0, the latest version of its software-based > encryption software. The package is claimed to the first 128-bit > encryption software to be exported from the US and its territories. No such luck. This is a press report that seems a little confused... which is say that it is, at least, a bit premature. SecurPC has a useful feature which allows for a self-decrypting file to be created with its 128-bit (symmetric) RC4 cipher. RSADSI got the NSA to agree that this self-decrypting file could be transmitted outside the US because the packaged implementation is restricted to merely decrypting the file -- with a key (password) to be passed out of band: by hand, letter, phone, etc. (The free trial version of SecurPC, which can be downloaded from the RSADSI and SDTI websites, is enabled with only the limited key-length RC4 encryption -- still the only type of crypto now allowed to be freely exported outside the US. The domestic product, as sold, offers full128-bit RC4.) The major enhancement in the 2.0 version of SecurPC, as I recall, is that it offers transparent, on the fly, decryption of a secured file, as you open the relevant application on your PC. Suerte, _Vin Vin McLellan + The Privacy Guild + <vin(a)shore.net> 53 Nichols St., Chelsea, MA 02150 USA <617> 884-5548

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No Subject
by Mix 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timmy Maya's reheated, refurbished, and regurgitated cud is completely inappropriate for the mailing lists into which it is cross-ruminated. \\\ {OQ} (_)

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WELL WORTH READING
by dcgroup＠erols.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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$7,000 in your mailbox!!!
by KFLT 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hello, Our research has shown that this may be of interest to you. If not please accept our apology. By not replying you will be removed from any future mailings. This messege will only be sent to you once. Thank You =============================================== Would you spend $5 in order to receive $7000 in return? Email DavFic(a)aol.com for FREE Information NOW!!!

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Sphere packings
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tim C[ocksucker] May's 16Kb brain's single convolution is directly wired to his rectum for input and his T1 mouth for output. That's 16K bits, not bytes. Anal intercourse has caused extensive brain damage. __ ___|[]| Tim C[ocksucker] May \__|______| /-(o_o_o_o)

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Re: Senate spams
by dlv＠bwalk.dm.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Adam Back <aba(a)dcs.ex.ac.uk> writes: > Personally I think you're allowing the bad feeling generated by the > [CENSORED] PR goofup over Dimitri's false criticisms to cloud your > usually good judgement. Adam, before labeling my criticisms "false", have you examined the source code of the product in quesion to see if it's secure? So far, the people caught making false statements are Sameer Parekh (spit) and his lackeys Greg Broils (spit) and Sandy Sandfart (spit). --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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No Subject
by Mix 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timothy May has been beaten up numerous times by fellow prostitutes for driving blow job prices down. ,,, (. .) -ooO-(_)-Ooo- Timothy May

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No Subject
by Mix 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tim C[ocksucker] May sexually molests little children, farm animals, and inanimate objects. ___ \/ \/ |_O O_| Tim C[ocksucker] May | ^ | / UUU \

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No Subject
by Mix 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timmy C[rook] May's mother attempted to pro-choice the unwanted little bastard by fishing with a coat hanger in her giant cunt, but failed miserably to pull the rabbit and succeeded only in scraping out the contents of little Timmy's fetal cranium (not much to begin with). o/ Timmy C[rook] May <| / >

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Re: Senate spams
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Greg Broiles wrote: > > > Greg doesn't seem to realize that, without a fellow C2Nut schill to > >censor the unlobotomotized, his horseshit will no longer go > >unchallenged. > > Your predictable whining about C2Net and suggestions that everyone > who disagrees with you is either working for a government and/or out to get > you hardly qualify as challenges - they seem to rather be on the level of > Vulis's ascii art, although the rate at which you produce them makes me > suspect you're still generating them by hand. How long are you and your bum-buddies at C2Nut going to continue to try to denigrate god-and-everybody by making out-of-context links to Dr. Vulis? Is Senator McCarthy alive and well at C2Nut? Whining? Suggestions? I'm 'flaming' shit-for-brains, and I'm working from the fact sheets. Fact: Sammy's pecker-tracks are all over the attempted takeover of the CypherPunks list. Fact: John Gilmore turned over control of the CypherPunks list at toad.com to C2Nut employee Sandy Sandfort, under the pretext of cutting down on mailbomb attacks. Fact: List subscribers were forcibly relocated to a list Censored by C2Nut employee Sandy Sandfort. Fact: C2Nut employee Sandy Sandfort then proceeded to Censor the posts to the CypherPunks list in an attempt to blunt criticism of the takeover of the list. Fact: C2Nut employee Sandy Sandfort announced that his Censorship of the CypherPunks list was not based on cryptographical content. Fact: Sandy Sandfort approved posts to the Censored list that insulted those who criticized him, while deleting the posts of those who responded to those insults. Fact: C2Nut employee Sandy Sandfort deleted incoming CypherPunks posts directly, sending them to none of the lists, if they reflected poorly on his employer, fellow employees, and his supporters. Fact: Under C2Nut employee Sandy Sandfort's list dictatorship, many of the so-called 'Evil Dr. Vulis ASCII' spams originated directly from toad.com, with forged headers. Others originated from the ISP's of C2Net employees. Fact: C2Nut's Sameer controls cypherpunks.com on the WWW. Fact: C2Nut stands to profit from having control of the CypherPunks name. Fact: C2Nut's employees were, and are, working in conjunction with others who have major financial interests that will benefit from control of the CypherPunks reputation capital. Fact: C2Nut and their employees apply threats of legal attack, both directly and indirectly, to those whose words conflict with the goals of C2Nut and their web of associated interests. Fact: If C2Nut wants the hidden agendas of themselves and their associates to remain hidden, then they need better firewalls in place. > "Challenge", my butt. Better have some more Scotch. Better to have Scotch in my mouth than my employer's sperm. And I doubt whether your butt is much of a challenge. > -- > Greg Broiles | US crypto export control policy in a nutshell: > gbroiles(a)netbox.com | > http://www.io.com/~gbroiles | Export jobs, not crypto. > | -- Toto ----------------------------- "The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre" http://bureau42.base.org/public/xenix/xenbody.html

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Senate Intel Report
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The US Senate Select Committee on Intelligence has published a special report on its activities from January 4, 1995 to October 3, 1996, which shows an unsuprising parallel to Cypherpunks topics -- even a bit on crypto. We've put it at: http://jya.com/sr105-1.htm (135K) Here's the TOC: I. Introduction II. Legislation Intelligence Budget S. 922 Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 1996 S. 1718 Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 1997 Intelligence Renewal and Reform Act of 1996 The National Imagery and Mapping Agency III. Arms Control Chemical Weapons Convention START II Treaty IV. Counterintelligence The Aldrich Ames Espionage Case French Flap Economic Espionage Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act V. Counterterrorism Terrorism Threat Overview Khubar Towers and OPM-SANG Bombings VI. Counterproliferation Non-Proliferation North Korean Weapons of Mass Destruction Programs Long-Range Missile Threat VII. Oversight Activities National Security Threats to the United States Intelligence Support to U.S. Efforts in Bosnia Inquiry into U.S. Actions Regarding Iranian and Other Arms Transfers to the Bosnian Army Congressional Notification of Foreign Policy Decisions Persian Gulf Syndrome Zona Rosa Vietnamese Commandos CIA/Contra/Cocaine Link CIA Use of Journalists, Clergy, and Peace Corps Volunteers in Intelligence Operations Guatemala Intelligence Support to Law Enforcement Congressional Notifications of Intelligence Activities Airborne Reconnaissance National Reconnaissance Office Carry Forward Small Satellites Covert Action Encryption Export Policy Security of the U.S. Information Infrastructure Jane Doe Thompson Case Oversight of the Intelligence Community Inspectors General Organized Crime in the Former Soviet Union Program Review and Audit Staff VIII.Foreign Intelligence North Korea Iraq Russia China Mexico Economic Espionage Environmental and Demographic Intelligence Intelligence Sharing with the United Nations IX. Confirmations DCI John M. Deutch DDCI George J. Tenet X. Committee Internal Reforms and Enhancements End of the Designee System Term Limits PolicyNet Appendix Summary of Committee Activities Number of Meetings Bills and Resolutions Originated by the Committee Bills Referred to the Committee Committee Publications Memorandum of Agreement Regarding TIARA and JMIP

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cryto
by kenny_austin＠juno.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

would you please add my name to your mailing list... thanks... kenny (kenny_austin(a)juno.com)

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Depends / Re: Senate spams
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Greg Broiles wrote: > > At 01:26 AM 2/28/97 -0600, snow wrote: > >> At 01:41 AM 2/27/97 -0800, Toto wrote: > >> > I didn't see a single post on CypherPunks where anyone expressed the > >> >least problem with pure, unmitigated spam being deleted. > > Greg Broiles wrote: > >> My point precisely. The question is not "is it useful to eliminate some > >> messages from the list?", but "which messages shall we eliminate?". > > > > This is mis-direction, and I believe it is deliberate on Boiles > >part. > > > > The question isn't "which messages shall we eliminate"--which implies > >that the original writer was seeking to silence _someone_, but rather > >given that there are [many some a-few] messages being sent to this list that > >are sent by non-human entities (bots, auto-replies, bounces etc.) is there > >a way to avoid propigating them. > > Will you count Raph's remailer statistics as "machine generated" and > exclude them, too? Only asinine, dip-shit numbskulls would be capable of making this idiotic extrapolation. Why am I not surprised it came from Greg? > Many/most of the "spam" messages are sent to the list because someone > (either the author, or a third party) wanted them to be sent to the list. > The fact that one or more machines are used to carry out that person's > wishes is irrelevant. We're not talking about the effects of alpha > particles or honest mistakes, we're talking about a deliberate choice to > send some content to the list. More DoubleSpeak transposing the issues of Spam and content. > And we're apparently talking about other > people choosing to override that choice to send content to the list, on the > basis of dislike for the sender, the sender's purpose, or the content of > the message. No we're not, Greg. _You_ seem to be the only one speaking of censorship based on personality, agendas and content. (Try to keep in mind that the thoughts and words of others are no longer being censored by your associates.) > And, like Toto said, there's nobody left who's arguing (modulo the > Freedom-Knights guy, whose name escapes me at the moment, who may not > really be on the list, haven't seen anything from him in a week or so) > against all censorship, just people arguing against censorship that they > don't like or done by people they don't trust, but in favor of censorship > they do like, or done by people they do trust. Toto is calling Greg a lying fuck who deliberately disseminates misinformation as to the stances taken by others. Greg seem to have taken it upon himself to provide a misinterpretation of the posts of others, even though those posts are available for people to read for themselves, making their own judgements as to what they say. I have maintained from the beginning that there needs to be a CypherPunks list which is free from filtering in any way, shape or form. I have also maintained that the interests of crypto would also be served by the maintenance of lists which offer filtering services by those who wish to provide them--even a CypherPunks-NoToto list. Anyone who read my post to Igor, suggesting that I would have no problem with him intercepting autobot-replies that result from mailbomb attacks, also knows that I suggested even the empty spam-messages being deleted should be stored where they are open to scrutiny, and that I, for one, would indeed be scrutinizing them. For Greg to purport that the interception of mail-bomb attacks equates somehow to content/personality censorship is unmitigated bullshit aimed at the dim-witted (of which I believe there are very few of on any of the CypherPunks lists). If Greg would like to put forth a logical train of thought which compares the interception of empty auto-bot messages generated in response to the forged posts of a mailbomb attack with Sandy's fascist censorship methods (which Greg eloquently described, but misdirected their source), then I would like to see it. > I don't see anything morally wrong with deliberately altering the flow of > messages to and through the list, but I think it's bad form to pretend not > to be doing that. Who is doing this, Greg? Name names. Give us an example of who is doing this and pretending not to do it. Why are your claims so vague? -- Toto ----------------------------- "The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre" http://bureau42.base.org/public/xenix/xenbody.html

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Re: "Suspected of purchasing diesel fuel"
by dlv＠bwalk.dm.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk writes: > > > > No, you 'all' have it wrong. > > > The censorship experiment was actually the result of the tremendous > > > amount of envy on the list over my having a 16" dick. > > > > So when a super babe says she wants a man with a 12" dick, do you > > have to go cut off 4 inches? Me being only 11", I just have to give > > her up. > > I always said this list would degenerate into a penis size > competition ;-) ITAR-relevant urban legend: once the Soviet government order 10K dozen 8" condoms in the U.S. and the Nixon administration made sure that each one was stamped "medium". > Paul (18") Bradley --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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Re: GAK
by nobody＠huge.cajones.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timmy May was born when his mother was on the toilet. _ {~} ( V-) Timmy May '|Y|' _|||_

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Re: NWLibs> Re: "Suspected of purchasing diesel fuel"
by dlv＠bwalk.dm.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

jim bell <jimbell(a)pacifier.com> writes: > >Objective journalism, my lily white butt. Journalists are whores - just ask Declan "Censorship" McCullough. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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ANNOUNCE: "Digital Money Online" report released 24 Feb 97
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text Sender: e$(a)thumper.vmeng.com Reply-To: Rachel Willmer <rachel(a)intertrader.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Precedence: Bulk Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 16:53:28 +0000 From: Rachel Willmer <rachel(a)intertrader.com> To: Multiple recipients of <e$(a)thumper.vmeng.com> Subject: ANNOUNCE: "Digital Money Online" report released 24 Feb 97 Digital Money Online Intertrader Ltd February 1997 Intertrader is pleased to announce the release of this 50 page report, which compares several current and future digital money technologies, such as Mondex, Cybercash and First Virtual. Available online at <http://www.intertrader.com/library/DigitalMoneyOnline/dmo/dmo.htm> or you can download a PDF copy at <http://www.intertrader.com/library/DigitalMoneyOnline/dmo/order.htm> All comments welcome! Regards Rachel P.S. This report supersedes the previous "Electronic Transaction Protocols". -- Rachel Willmer, Intertrader Ltd, Cova House, 4 John's Place, Edinburgh Email: rachel(a)intertrader.com Tel: +44 131 555 8450 Fax: +44 131 555 8451 Sun Internet Associate and winner of 1996 SMART Award for Innovation "We develop Java Commerce Solutions" ---------- The e$ lists are brought to you by: Intertrader Ltd - Commerce Solutions in the UK Visit for details ... Where people, networks and money come together: Consult Hyperion http://www.hyperion.co.uk info(a)hyperion.co.uk Like e$? Help pay for it! See Or, for e$/e$pam sponsorship, see Thanks to the e$ e$lves: Of Counsel: Vinnie Moscaritolo (Majordomo)^2: Rachel Willmer Commermeister: Anthony Templer Interturge: Rodney Thayer --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "Never attribute to conspiracy what can be explained by stupidity." -- Jerry Pournelle The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/rah/ FC97: Anguilla, anyone? http://www.ai/fc97/

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Re: "Suspected of purchasing diesel fuel"
by dlv＠bwalk.dm.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Toto <toto(a)sk.sympatico.ca> writes: > Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > > > > Toto wrote: > > > Who is the janitor at the Japenese embassy in New York City? > > > What is the postal code of Mule Shoe, Texas? > > > Who is buried in Grant's Tomb? > > > > Grant? > > One out of three gets you a green card, Igor. Look up the postal code > for Muleshoe, Texas, and you get a citizenship card. > If you can name the janitor at the Japanese embassy, however, you'll > probably be indicted for espionage. It's unnatural to be a U.S. citizen because most people aren't. I used to walk my dogs by Grant's tomb. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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Your News from Infoseek for Saturday, March 1, 1997
by Infoseek News Center 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hello abba, Here are your personal news headlines from Infoseek for Saturday, March 1, 1997. To read the latest news or search for these articles, visit the Infoseek News Center at: http://yournews.infoseek.com To view previous headlines, click the "See Older News" button. Technology News http://yournews.infoseek.com/mtechnology Fri 10:00 Lawmakers Seek Free Export of Encryption These headlines are provided by Reuters, Business Wire, and PR Newswire. ********************************************************************** To change your Infoseek News Center profile, go to http://yournews.infoseek.com/ and click "Personalize." To stop receiving personalized news e-mail from Infoseek, either: * Go to http://yournews.infoseek.com/page?pg=pro_reg.html and change your "news delivery option"; or * Reply via e-mail to this message, and put the word "cancel" in your reply's "subject" line; or * E-mail newsctr(a)infoseek.com, and put the word "cancel" in your message's "subject" line. Send comments or suggestions to: comments-news(a)infoseek.com

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Re: "Suspected of purchasing diesel fuel"
by dlv＠bwalk.dm.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Casey Iverson <iverson(a)usa.net> writes: > At 07:22 PM 2/28/97 EST, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: > >I recall that when I was becoming a naturalized amcit circa 1986, I was aske > >a single question: name the 2 senators of New York State. These were D'Amato > >and Moynihan back then, and they still are. I've heard of cases when the IN > >didn't want someone to pass the exam, and they asked much harder questions > >which some people actually flunked. > > > Biggest mistake the INS ever made was to allow a piece of Russian dung like > *you* into the USA Vladimir Il'yich Lenin said: the capitalists will sell us the ropes on which we will hang them. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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Re: Russian Invasion
by dlv＠bwalk.dm.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Toto <toto(a)sk.sympatico.ca> writes: > Casey Iverson wrote: > > > > At 07:22 PM 2/28/97 EST, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: > > >I recall that when I was becoming a naturalized amcit circa 1986, I was as > > >a single question: name the 2 senators of New York State. These were D'Ama > > >and Moynihan back then, and they still are. I've heard of cases when the > > >didn't want someone to pass the exam, and they asked much harder questions > > >which some people actually flunked. > > > > > > Biggest mistake the INS ever made was to allow a piece of Russian dung like > > *you* into the USA > > It's a trick. A post-Reaganite desk jockey in Washington figured out > that we could save millions of dollars in missle fuel by luring the > Russians to the U.S. and 'then' nuking them. > Now, if we could only get them to all visit Congress at the same > time... You have reached the Central Intelligence Agency Web site - running StrongHold. All of our agents are busy right now. Your session is important to us. Please remain on the socket for the next available operative. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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Electronic Cash
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text Date: Thu, 27 Feb 97 18:16:03 EST From: weffross(a)counsel.com (Walter A Effross -- American Univ. - Washington ) To: rah(a)shipwright.com Subject: Electronic Cash To: rah(a)shipwright.com Inet Robert, I thought that you and the members of your group would be interested in this Symposium. Please feel free to send the information around to whatever listservs you think appropriate. Thanks! Walter THE ELECTRONIC FUTURE OF CASH - A SYMPOSIUM The Washington College of Law and the American University Law Review are proud to announce a full-day Symposium on the Electronic Future of Cash, to be held at the law school in Washington, DC on Friday, April 18, 1997 in connection with the publication of a special Symposium issue of the Law Review on this topic. The first panel, "The Technology of Electronic Cash," will include: Newsweek columnist Steven Levy; Cybercash General Counsel Russ Stevenson; Peter Wayner, author of Digital Cash: Commerce on the Internet; Gary Lorenz, General Manager of the Diebold Campus Systems Division; and a representative (invited) of the National Security Agency. This panel will examine the operation of stored value cards and encryption techniques and will include a demonstration of a "cyberpayment" made online with digital cash. The second panel, "Commentary on the Regulation of Electronic Cash," brings together the authors of articles in the Symposium issue (provided, with additional materials, to all registrants) to review and recommend regulatory efforts from the viewpoints of academics, practitioners, bankers, and consumer advocates. Panelists include: Professor Mark Budnitz, Georgia State University College of Law; Richard Field, Chair of the Electronic Commerce Payment Committee of the American Bar Association; Professor Egon Guttman, Washington College of Law; Professor David Oedel, Mercer University Law School; Simon Lelieveldt, Senior Policy Advisor, Payment Systems Policy Department, De Nederlandsche Bank (the Dutch Central Bank); and Brian Smith of Mayer, Brown & Platt. Dr. David Chaum, the founder and president of DigiCash, has been invited to give a luncheon address. The third panel, "The Perspectives of the Regulators," includes: Thomas Baxter, Jr., General Counsel of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York; William Kroener, General Counsel of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation; Michael Billsma, Acting Director, Community and Consumer Law, Office of the Comptroller of the Currency; Stephen Kroll, Legal Counsel, Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN), United States Treasury Department; Scott Charney, Chief, Computer Crime and Intellectual Property Section, Criminal Justice Division, Department of Justice; John Lopez, Counsel, Subcommittee on Domestic and International Monetary Policy; Paul Glenn, Special Counsel, Office of Thrift Supervision; and Lucy Morris, Assistant Director for Credit Practices, Federal Trade Commission. A reception will follow. Registration fees (including lunch) are: $150 for preregistrants; $175 for registration at the door; $100 for Washington College of Law alumni; $80 for judges, law clerks, and government employees; and $40 for full-time academics. Please register early, as space may be limited. For a registration form and more information, please contact Professor Walter Effross, the Symposium's organizer and panel moderator, at (202) 274-4017, see our Symposium website at http://www.wcl.american.edu/pub/journals/lawrev/electronic_cash/con f.htm, or email: futurecash(a)wcl.american.edu. --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "Never attribute to conspiracy what can be explained by stupidity." -- Jerry Pournelle The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/rah/ FC97: Anguilla, anyone? http://www.ai/fc97/

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We Will Send Your Bulk Email
by Product Link 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

*If you want to be removed from our mailing list, please respond to this email and put "Remove" in the subject line. We will send out your bulk E Mail. Period. No qualifiers, no conditions, no nonsense...and we'll do it at the best prices. Call us as (805) 654-4042. We are Product Link. We are a business partner with a marketing company which develops buyers for its clients' products through electronic marketing; primarily broadcast fax. Together, we have over a hundred clients, almost 10% of which are Fortune 500 companies. We have numerous staff, and have just begun, at client request, to send high volumes of E Mail. If you're new to bulk E Mail marketing, as we were a short time ago, I can confirm that all the E Mails you've been getting from E Mail software companies about how great E Mail marketing is; well, they're true. However, as those of you who have already purchased software and have tried bulk E mail know, nothing good ever comes easy. Our staff has spent millions of advertising dollars on our clients' behalf; everything from commercials on the Superbowl to ads in the New York Times, to full page spreads in Scientific American.; not to mention the sending of over 1,000,000 marketing faxes a year for major corporations. Bulk E mail has been quite an eye opener. The Internet, the on line services and ISP providers are full of shrill, self appointed "net cops," whose mission in life seems to be dumping on those who have the audacity to sell product via E Mail. I don't wish nor intend to debate the issue here, except to say that if you've purchased bulk E Mail software (or intend to), you've already found out that when you attempt to use it, your ISP provider will shut you down, your E Mail account will be bombed, and electronic flames will become a way of life. Since we have a low tolerance for allowing small groups of vocal fanatics to dictate our business life, we set up our own system to send out Bulk E Mail. This system will be greatly expanded in 30 days or so (we're installing more T lines), but we currently have room on our system to send out Bulk E Mail for a limited number of companies or individuals other than ourselves. We'll send out your order, large or small. We'll do it quickly, and we'll do it at a really great price. You can supply the list, or we'll supply the list. Place an order with us, and we'll give you advice on how to set up your E Mail so your on line service won't shut you down, how to write your material, and much more. We will also write your marketing material, if you so desire. If you supply a list, we can run it through our computer program to sort out all duplicates and bad AOL or CompuServe addresses. If you buy a list from us, we will guarantee that the exact number of names you order will go out; if we send a list for you and a number of addresses are not delivered, we will send out more E Mails until you get delivered exactly what you ordered. We can even tell you how to confirm that your list was sent. We also have programs that can filter out E Mail "bombs" and other irritating toys played with at your expense by people who don't have a life. When we first began exploring bulk E mail, we contacted numerous firms advertising that they would send out bulk E mail. What we got was answering machines, disconnected numbers, and no call backs. The one firm that did contract us would only send limited numbers of E mails for us, and then only if we had already sent the list out once and taken off all the removes (go figure...if we could send out the list once, what did we need them for?). We finally got so exasperated, we set up our own system. And are we glad we did. Speaking as a marketing man with over 30 years experience in major advertising, E Mail marketing will change the face of advertising and cost of sale forever. I do not believe that has ever been a vehicle like it in history to allow anyone of any size and any budget to advertise and sell their products literally overnight. We employ 18 people, and I guarantee you that when you contact us as (805) 654-4042, you'll get a call back. Right away. And the office phone number we give you, will have a live person at the other end. Following is a price list to give you an idea of the quality of our company. Please bear in mind that Bulk E Mail is effective in large numbers; i.e., 25,000 and above. Price List To Send Bulk E Mail: Amount Cost Set Up (One Time Fee) 25,000 $150.00 $50.00 50,000 $275.00 $50.00 75,000 $400.00 $50.00 100,000 $550.00 $50.00 Bulk E Mail amounts above 100,000 per sending will be bid on a case by case basis. If you wish to modem us a list, there may be a small charge for down load depending on list size. We can provide a list for you at a nominal charge. If you wish us to "clean" your list (remove all duplicates and bad addresses), we will supply a bid on a case by case basis as with writing your marketing materials and other services. If we may be of service to you, please call us directly at (805) 654-4042. Thank you.

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Re: Depends / Re: Senate spams
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Greg Broiles wrote: > At 07:27 PM 2/28/97 -0800, Toto wrote: > > Only asinine, dip-shit numbskulls would be capable of making this > >idiotic extrapolation. > Please sketch out the details of this "extrapolation". Simple enough. Snow stated: "given that there are [many some a-few] messages being sent to this list that are sent by non-human entities (bots, auto-replies, bounces etc.) is there a way to avoid propigating them." Which Greg extrapolated to suggest: "Will you count Raph's remailer statistics as "machine generated" and exclude them, too?" Which I suppose could be taken to yet another level of extrapolation by asking the question, "Will you count cc:'d messages as 'machine generated' and exclude them, too?" After which it could be further extrapolated to ask, "Will you count posts composed on computers as being 'machine generated' and exclude them, too?" Greg, in his typical muddying of the waters, tries to twist the thoughts of others around to the extent that, if one followed Greg's logic to its conclusion, one might believe snow is of the opinion that the "Welcome to Cypherpunks" message should be deleted because it is auto-generated. If this is, indeed, the case, then I would expect snow would explain his reasons for thinking thusly. > You cannot talk about spam (using the "inappropriate or off-topic message" > definition, not the "posted too many times" definition) without talking > about content. Once again, you are self-servingly using the C2nsorship definition of spam, which is not common to any of the anti-spam forums that I follow. Of course content must be taken into consideration, even in the case of auto-generated messages. Auto-generated messages, such as remailer information, can be on-topic for the list. As far as I am concerned, posts by list subscribers cannot possibly be off-topic, since it is up to the subscribers to decide what they consider to be a suitable topic for the list. > You are also talking about censorship based on content, but you don't seem > to want to admit it. Another misrepresentation on your part. All moderation/censorship is based on content. I have always maintained, however, that a rational person is capable of looking at the content, source, and destinations of a post and determining if it is shotgun-spawned crapola and/or a mailbombing or denial of service attack. > > Anyone who read my post to Igor, suggesting that I would have no > >problem > >with him intercepting autobot-replies that result from mailbomb attacks, > >also knows that I suggested even the empty spam-messages being deleted > >should be stored where they are open to scrutiny, and that I, for one, > >would indeed be scrutinizing them. > > Boy, this sounds like a really familiar system .. can't quite remember > where I've seen it used before .. Well, you certainly didn't see it on the CypherPunks list. What was seen there was a fascist takeover of the list by a dictator who relegated posts he and his employer personally disliked to the flames list. > There was some guy named Toto who wrote > to me a few weeks ago, Try including specific quotes, Greg, even if they are out-of-context. > >> I don't see anything morally wrong with deliberately altering the flow of > >> messages to and through the list, but I think it's bad form to pretend not > >> to be doing that. > > > > Who is doing this, Greg? Name names. Give us an example of who is > >doing this and pretending not to do it. Why are your claims so vague? > > Because I'm interested in talking about ideas, not people. Not just because you were blowing smoke? > I realize this > may come as something of a surprise, but there are some circumstances where > simply calling someone an "idiot" or a "liar" or saying that they've got > their employers' sperm in their mouth is not a meaningful substitute for > explaining why you think they're wrong. Never let it be said that I am one to let bad taste (pardon the pun) stand in the way of a cheap shot. And I do explain why I think you are not only wrong, but purposely attempting to misrepresent the stances taken by others. I will reiterate that I am of the belief that there should always be a completely unmoderated, uncensored CypherPunks list, and that additional, filtered lists, should be merely a conjunction to that list, in the interests of spreading information regarding strong crypto in the widest possible manner. -- Toto ----------------------------- "The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre" http://bureau42.base.org/public/xenix/xenbody.html

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Try It Before You Buy It!
by Andy Barber 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Imagine this: A network program that lets you: TRY IT BEFORE YOU BUY IT! This is unlike ANYTHING you have seen before. Like joining a network marketing program in reverse! You get to try it out, w/ no obligation, see if it works, and THEN decide if you want to participate in the actual money-making end of it! Best of all, it COSTS YOU NOTHING!!! It's totally free. Visit our Web-Site at: http://www.crt-enterprises.com/downline.htm register FREE You have NOTHING to lose, and possibly EVERYTHING to gain! Email abarber(a)vgernet.net, Put "FREE" in subject. Thank you

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