December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: More on digital postage
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 08:33 PM 2/15/97 -0600, snow wrote: >Mr. May wrote: >> At 11:40 AM -0600 2/15/97, snow wrote: >> > That is a ridiculous argument. The door to my home is connected >> >to the street,m and I know full well that that makes it easy for anyone >> >to come wandering in to my home. Is it legal, just because I have my >> >home hooked to the street, for someone to come in and help themselves to >> >a beer out of my fridge? >> >> The proper parallel is to _knocking on the door_. Talking about "unwanted >> phone calls" or "unwanted faxes" as being equivalent to entering a house >> and wandering around is incorrect. > > With phone calls, yes. With unwanted faxes no. With Phone Calls, >and knocks on the door I have the option of simply not answering. Faxes >(in certain enviroments) you can't do that with. That's a technlogical problem, and deserves a technological solution. > >> Our society fairly reasonably allows tort relief for, say, having one's >> doorbell rung frequently or at odd hours. On the fax issue, similar tort >> relief could be obtained if a person or business was truly "under attack." >> (Purists, like me, would probably prefer technological solutions even in >> these cases. Leave a phone on answering machine mode, only switch on the >> fax mode when a fax is expected, etc.) > > Or simply a societal acceptance of retaliation(sp?) Someone who >constantly wakes you up in the middle of the night, well you just arrange >it so they get no sleep. Well, I've proposed such a system before... >> These tort actions are a far cry from proposals that anyone whose knock on >> the door, or phonecall, or e-mail, or fax is subject to criminal >> prosecution under proposed new laws. >> (I think the courts are already clogged enough, and I have faith that no >> court in the land will accept a case where no real harm was done. A friend >> of mine got mailbombed with 25,000 e-mail messages in one day, shutting >> down his account until the mess could be cleaned up, and it's not even >> likely he'll ever get any relief.) > > I (I think like you) feel that almost no one will get convicted >of these "crimes" unless the attacker simply goes too far. Which is why my first choice is, uh, and alternative method of "justice." Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Where is the reorg FAQ?
by Anil Das 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I saw a reference to an FAQ by Adam Back, explaining the mailing lists that are being set up to replace cypherpunks(a)toad.com, but I didn't see the FAQ itself, on either cypherpunks-unedited or cypherpunks(a)toad.com, which I read as mail.cypherpunks. Maybe it fell through the cracks. Could Adam or somebody else repost it? Thanks. Btw, one of our many news servers has alt.cypherpunks, but it has very low traffic. I doubt people are not posting. Must be alt.cypherpunks missing from some upstream sites. -- Anil Das

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cypherpunks@toad.com
by Sheldon Glass 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I'm a very long term lurker writing to thank you for hosting the mailing list. It was surprising that the list, if not the community, was as vulnerable to twits like Vulis as it appears. It's a valuable lesson. When cypherpunks rise from these ashes I hope that designers of alternatives will remember the Alamo so to speak. -- sheldon glass | Plauger's Dogma sglass(a)mail.sdsu.edu | No program may leave its sanity #include <std.disclaimer> | at the mercy of its input.

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Re: Where is the reorg FAQ?
by ichudov＠algebra.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Mike Duvos wrote: > > Anil Das writes: > > > Btw, one of our many news servers has alt.cypherpunks, but it has very > > low traffic. I doubt people are not posting. Must be alt.cypherpunks > > missing from some upstream sites. > > To spam propagation islands, it might be a good idea to crosspost to > alt.privacy when posting to alt.cypherpunks. It will probably take a week > or two before everyone who is going to create the group on their news > server gets around to it. > Better yet, crosspost to misc.misc. - Igor.

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Re: Mirrors and replies-to
by Lance Cottrell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 7:24 AM -0800 2/15/97, Robert Hettinga wrote: <SNIP> >However, I would like it if the mirror operators would reinstantiate a >feature of the original list for me. The reply-to field on the mirrors is >currently set to cypherpunks(a)toad.com. On the original list, this was set >to "sender", both to keep people from replying to the list unnecessarily >(hah! :-)) but also to keep mail loops from forming. Mail loops could be a >big problem, especially when you guys put together your neo-netnews >mailring. (a little jyaism, that... :-)). After some discussion, the reply-to: cypherpunks(a)toad.com was a deliberate choice. I wanted to ensure that the list at cyberpass did not become an island. Once the main list expires, the reply-to will be changed to the sender. -Lance ---------------------------------------------------------- Lance Cottrell loki(a)obscura.com PGP 2.6 key available by finger or server. http://www.obscura.com/~loki/ "Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra. Suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night the ice weasels come." --Nietzsche ----------------------------------------------------------

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Re: (fwd) DES challenge organisation
by Mike Duvos 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Adam Back <aba(a)dcs.ex.ac.uk> writes: > How can this be enforced? The RSADSI DES challenge is open > to all comers, and how do you prove that someone who finds > the key found it through this group effort? > I have a suspicion many people would be tempted to fill in > the RSA challenge form and email it in themselves. $10,000 > is a fair amount of money. Of course they will. If the unsearched portions of the keyspace are published, you can just sit back until the odds go up and then throw some CPU power at it. There is no obligation on the part of the individual who finds the key to not claim the prize personally. The issues of random keyspace assignment to protect against sabotage and centralized monolithic server vs autonomous client have been debated on the "muffin" list, where I have been lurking, but the people in charge seem to like explicit keyspace partitioning and servers a lot. Should be an interesting effort. By the way, does anyone know if des-challenge(a)muffin.org is alive? I haven't seen any messages from it in over a day and majordomo is not responding to inquiries. -- Mike Duvos $ PGP 2.6 Public Key available $ mpd(a)netcom.com $ via Finger. $

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Re: (fwd) DES challenge organisation
by Mark Newton 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timothy C. May wrote: > The organizer of the coordinated search must then, I surmise, keep the > assignments secret and dole out keyspace securely. Perhaps they should DES-encrypt the list of assignments :-) - mark -------------------------------------------------------------------- I tried an internal modem, newton(a)dotat.org but it hurt when I walked. Mark Newton ----- Voice: +61-4-1155-2401 ------------- Fax: +61-8-83732527 -----

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Re: More on digital postage
by omegam＠cmq.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Peter J. Capelli writes: > I pay for my phone service; I assume you pay a flat rate and not by the incoming fax! > I pay for my fax, toner, and > paper. If they use my property without getting permission first, So, if a person uses a computer fax-modem and, therefore, paper, toner, etc. aren't used, does this change the situation? Suddenly we're very close to the situation of junk-email. (Except that the sender of the junk fax incurs long-distance charges, if there are any, not to mention he pays for the phone service the same as you do) > I believe > that *is* ( or should be ) illegal. "There should be a law!" 5 of the ugliest words in the English language when put together. Look. I understand your sentiment and junk faxes piss me off as well, but the cost of government regulation is too high in my opinion. As I'm sure you're aware, government does a *great* job of creating sensible and useful regulations. Unfortunately, fax machines can't distinguish the text of messages, so you can't do filtering or bounce messages, etc. (Although I have been known to send a nasty reply fax or two. And I never fail to call the send of the fax to complain and have the junk faxes terminated) > Your argument that my plugging a fax > machine itno a phone line I know it will answer, even if it is unauthorized, > is tantamount to saying that if I leave my keys in my car, anyone can take > it, and legally so! While it may be foolish to do that, being > foolish is not > a crime You purchased the fax equipment. Why should the government regulate its usage for you? Ideally, the manufacture of fax machines which are able to authenticate a sender in some manner before permitting the actually permitting transmission of the fax out to paper would likely eliminate junk faxes. Of course, this would involve strong encryption. And -- wouldn't you know it! -- that's covered by a range of confusing and threatening federal regulations -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Omegaman <mailto:omegam@cmq.com>|"When they kick out your front door, PGP Key fingerprint = | How are you gonna come? 6D 31 C3 00 77 8C D1 C2 | With your hands upon your head, 59 0A 01 E3 AF 81 94 63 | Or on the trigger of your gun?" Send email with "get key" as the| -- The Clash, "Guns of Brixton" "Subject:" to get my public key | _London_Calling_ , 1979 ---------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: Moderation experiment almost over; "put up or shut up"
by Cynthia H. Brown 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Sat, 15 Feb 1997 paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk wrote: <earlier discussion excised> > Not my point, I didn`t say I would refuse, as in my example, to have > my car serviced by a woman, rather, that I would not feel comfortable > doing so. This is not prejudice, it is a statistical judgement based > on the fact that, as a percentage, I know few women who are competent > car mechanics but I know a number of men who, by the same criteria, I > would call competent. Acknowledged, agree to disagree :-). (Very few of my male friends can do more than sew on a button, but that doesn't weight my choice of a *professional* tailor.) It did, however, sound like you were agreeing with the previous poster's (more extreme) position. > Very much so, I did not intend, even though my post may have appeared > that way, for one minute to suggest that women were *unable* to carry > out certain tasks, just that they seem less suited to certain > vocations that others. For example, I know a number of good female > History or English students but very few good female mathematics > or computer science students. This is not, I believe, because women are > not "suited" to computer science rather that they have never been encouraged > at high school etc. to learn about such subjects which are seen as male preserves. > I wholeheartedly believe this should not be the case, and my original > post may have been misleading, I just believe that in the current > system very few women do become good at science/technical subjects. Agreed (sadly) that there is a dearth of role models like Mme. Curie or Roberta Bondar. There is also an unfortunate "geek stigma" often attached to those who are good at math or science (male or female). Whether this stigma discourages more girls than boys is questionable (psychology thesis, anyone?), but it has probably resulted in good-math-potential brains taking economics (or whatever) instead. Fewer competitors for the 56-bit prize, but also fewer brains thinking up better PRNGs. Cynthia =============================================================== Cynthia H. Brown, P.Eng. E-mail: cynthb(a)iosphere.net | PGP Key: See Home Page Home Page: http://www.iosphere.net/~cynthb/ Junk mail will be ignored in the order in which it is received. Klein bottle for rent; enquire within.

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Re: Keep it Simple and the Cypherpunk Way
by Attila T. Hun 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- on or about 970215:1003 Dale Thorn <dthorn(a)gte.net> said: +Vladimir Z. Nuri <vznuri(a)netcom.com> said: +> timmy, cpunks, etc. you are getting a lesson in REALITY. you are seeing +> the logical conclusion of your views playing out before you. acrimony, +> bitterness, resignation, chaos, confusion, cacaphony, anarchy. +Perhaps you should turn your talents to writing country songs. and if I play it backwards I get my dawg, my truck, and my gittar back. ___________________________________________________________attila_____ "Explain to me, slowly and carefully, why if person A, when screwed over on a deal by B; is morally obligated to consult, pay, and defer to, person C for the purpose of seeing justice done; and why person C has any legitimate gripe, if A just hauls off and smacks B around like a dead carp." ___________________________________________________________attila_____ "attila" 1024/C20B6905/23 D0 FA 7F 6A 8F 60 66 BC AF AE 56 98 C0 D7 B0 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: latin1 Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be iQCVAwUBMwaj+b04kQrCC2kFAQH0oAQA3pueKSWg2Fqvb6h3psP67rF18N/kwaMP nD6LE7DgzNYVTYwwKjk/eT8/i2kdSEAS8MqkmVc7KwZqsHWl4Ttj23A1GaTHzobL IWwfRAR6BJfcjyvQSzkG/Pq4R7FYvyLoSAqwsYLvlWvC35kiYwwjll9/zprLQbWq RHlrPaY54EU= =I9gB -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: More on digital postage
by Cynthia H. Brown 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Sat, 15 Feb 1997 Dale Thorn wrote: > jim bell wrote: > > > But having an address, and a walkway, and a doorbell is generally considered > > if not explicit permission, but at least toleration of the idea that > > somebody can walk up and knock on the door, etc. Having a telephone with a > > number that anyone can dial is going to result in some level of intrusion. > > Having a fax machine is a similar issue, unless technology provides a way to > > block unwanted faxes. > > There are some neato methods to deal with the door and the phone, > but I haven't investigated faxes since I don't run one at home. Boring but it works: There are plenty of fax-to-PC programs out there. Anyone can save *lots* of trees by viewing faxes on the screen before printing the useful page(s). Yes, I know, this means human intervention, but so does crumpling up the ***BUY NOW*** garbage, tossing it at the recycle bin, missing, cursing, etc. Here in Canada, the CRTC (Canadian Radio & Telecomms Commission) put out rules limiting the time of day, etc. for phone spam (voice or fax). Does anyone out there have the specifics of the CRTC regs? Cynthia =============================================================== Cynthia H. Brown, P.Eng. E-mail: cynthb(a)iosphere.net | PGP Key: See Home Page Home Page: http://www.iosphere.net/~cynthb/ Junk mail will be ignored in the order in which it is received. Klein bottle for rent; enquire within.

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Crypto code published in magazines
by Peter Gutmann 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I'm trying to find instances of crypto code published in computer magazines in the last few years. I know of Blowfish in DDJ, are there cases of more mainstream computer mags like Byte publishing crypto code (I know Byte did DES in 1977, I'm hoping for something a bit more recent)?. Please mail or cc replies directly to me, nntp.hks.net seems to have died :-(. Peter.

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Re: Where is the reorg FAQ?
by Mike Duvos 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Anil Das writes: > Btw, one of our many news servers has alt.cypherpunks, but it has very > low traffic. I doubt people are not posting. Must be alt.cypherpunks > missing from some upstream sites. To spam propagation islands, it might be a good idea to crosspost to alt.privacy when posting to alt.cypherpunks. It will probably take a week or two before everyone who is going to create the group on their news server gets around to it. -- Mike Duvos $ PGP 2.6 Public Key available $ mpd(a)netcom.com $ via Finger. $

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Dale: What a laff!
by nobody＠huge.cajones.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 18:42:11 -0800 From: Dale Thorn <dthorn(a)gte.net> Dale sagely wrote: :Wine and cheese are the key. You hit that one on the head. I tried :those Mensa parties in Beverly Hills a few times. Oh what a kidder this Dale is. At Mensa party no less!! Whatta farce! Still love you fella.

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(no subject)
by zac 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

UNSUBCRIBE CYPHERPUNKS lspeiel(a)lightspeed.net

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Spam, Spam, Digital Postage, and Spam
by Eric Cordian 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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MagicMoney
by hjk 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I finally got a copy of MagicMoney (from ftp://utopia.hacktic.nl). It is just the code (compiling without error), but there is no README or documentation at all.Can someone give me a hint,what to do with this package? Is there a documentation somesite? BTW utopia is the site,you can get all the export restricted stuff outside the US. Heinz-Juergen Keller email: hjk(a)ddorf.rhein-ruhr.de

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alt.cypherpunks.* groups make primenet.com
by Carol Anne Cypherpunk 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Primenet.com has picked up the alt.cypherpunk feed. And, there was spam (yum, yum) on it already. Carol Anne Cypherpunk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Uncensored from heavily.censored.org iQCVAwUBMwbyForpjEWs1wBlAQEOYQP/bU7uRm5YIMgSkH9QoRLm1UzUCcJ8kxoY okFp6cshYvn5zZf4Kp8z9eWh67ox8yN/Lsp8DzFRkS9xrmobX/5givMut304rN5+ p213AzjaEOhfaat5w4AWUPU1xAIkTnI0jqN4vslKQ0Y77fyrzRgwtCCvsw2VzCfv hPSSApmGuys= =mlts -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Member Internet Society - Certified BETSI Programmer - Webmistress *********************************************************************** Carol Anne Braddock (cab8) carolann(a)censored.org 206.42.112.96 My Homepage The Cyberdoc ***********************************************************************

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Re:
by paul＠fatmans.demon.co.uk 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> > PS. His sexist comments are rubbish too. I usually like his crypto posts, > > however, as long as they are technical rather than legal... > > Paul's sexist comments are very interesting - I hope to find more time to > comment on them too. I don't know if they have the same kind of "affirmative > action" in the U.K. that they have in the U.S. - here if you find a woman > in the position of authority, there's a good chance that she was promoted > ahead of more qualified men to meet some quota, and is therefore incompetent. We do not have such laws as far as I`m aware (I try to know as little as possible about law and finance/econimics as I find them intensely boring, even if they are necessary knowledge as a proponent of freedom of action and speech) but in my experience a number of employers promote women ahead of men in order to avoid costly industrial tribunals brought for discrimination. I also believe for the same reasons a lot of known homosexuals, blacks, <insert minority group of choice here> are promoted ahead of more qualified white, straight males. Datacomms Technologies web authoring and data security Paul Bradley, Paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk Paul(a)crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul(a)cryptography.uk.eu.org Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/ Email for PGP public key, ID: 5BBFAEB1 "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"

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(no subject)
by zac 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

UNSUBCRIBE CYPHERPUNKS lspeiel(a)lightspeed.net

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Spam, Spam, Digital Postage, and Spam
by Eric Cordian 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Re: More on digital postage
by Timothy C. May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 1:09 AM -0500 2/16/97, Cynthia H. Brown wrote: >Here in Canada, the CRTC (Canadian Radio & Telecomms Commission) put >out rules limiting the time of day, etc. for phone spam (voice or >fax). Does anyone out there have the specifics of the CRTC regs? "Spam" has rapidly become one of those overused, overloaded, meaningless words. Everything bad on the Net these days is labelled "spam." For the phone example in Canada, just what is "spam"? -- Is it the semi-traditional definition of "spam," i.e., a phone call made to thousands of sites? (At the same time? Sequentially? How?) -- Is it a robo-dialer, with no human at the other end? -- Or is it merely an "unwanted phone call"? As I see it, the danger of criminalizing "unwanted phone calls" is obvious. (Though obviously the courts and prisons are not about to be filled up with people who committed the heinous crime of making an unrequested phone call.) The danger of all "junk mail" and "junk phone call" laws is that they give power to the government to decide on what is junk and what is not. Not something we should support. --Tim May Just say "No" to "Big Brother Inside" We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: More on digital postage
by Eric Cordian 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timothy C. May writes: > "Spam" has rapidly become one of those overused, overloaded, > meaningless words. Everything bad on the Net these days is labelled > "spam." The term "spam" has its origins in the well-known Monty Python Viking sketch, where a diner has breakfast menu offerings such as Spam, spam, spam, spam, eggs, and spam. This sequence of one repeated thing, with an occasional something else, reminds us of how our news spool looks after spam has happened. > For the phone example in Canada, just what is "spam"? > -- Is it the semi-traditional definition of "spam," i.e., a phone call made > to thousands of sites? (At the same time? Sequentially? How?) > -- Is it a robo-dialer, with no human at the other end? Calling one person a thousand times is certainly spam. Calling a thousand different people is probably "Excessive Multiple Calling", or some such acronym. > -- Or is it merely an "unwanted phone call"? This is definitely not spam. > As I see it, the danger of criminalizing "unwanted phone calls" is obvious. > (Though obviously the courts and prisons are not about to be filled up with > people who committed the heinous crime of making an unrequested phone call.) If someone is calling me every day, and I ask them nicely to stop, continued calling should be illegal harrassment. If I've never heard from them before, then a couple unwanted calls aren't a big deal. The same principle should apply if someone decides they have a Constitutional right to bang on my front door at 6 am each and every morning. > The danger of all "junk mail" and "junk phone call" laws is that they give > power to the government to decide on what is junk and what is not. > Not something we should support. I wouldn't mind laws against "repeated unwanted communication." That way I decide what is and is not junk, and the perpetrator is on notice that further waste of my time, fax paper, phone line, or mailbox space will not be viewed benevolently. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"

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[STEGO] Degausser
by lucifer＠dhp.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Embedded in Tim C. May's babblings are preposterous lies, wild distortions, child pornography (both as graphic descriptions and in JPEG format), ethnic slurs, and racial epithets. _ / ' | /><oo><\ Tim C. May //[ `' ]\\

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MagicMoney
by hjk 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I finally got a copy of MagicMoney (from ftp://utopia.hacktic.nl). It is just the code (compiling without error), but there is no README or documentation at all.Can someone give me a hint,what to do with this package? Is there a documentation somesite? BTW utopia is the site,you can get all the export restricted stuff outside the US. Heinz-Juergen Keller email: hjk(a)ddorf.rhein-ruhr.de

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