December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

[Fwd: School Sponsorship]
by PRESIDENT 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

----- Begin Obvious Forgery ----- [Bienfait Nutly News] PRESIDENT CLINTON, TUCKING FUNNY-MONEY INTO THE panties of the topless dancers during their performances at the CoalDust Saloon's 'Paula Jones and Monica Lewinski Look-Alike Contest,' took time out from the festivities to announce plans to help prop up the nation's decaying public school system by allowing Adult WebSites to sponsor the latest computer technology additions to the schools' InterNet systems. "We don't see any harm in this," Clinton told gathered reportwhores, who were pretty much ignoring him as they watched the dancers, "since the children won't be able to legally access the URL's being advertised until they are 18 years old." In response to concerns about the increasing Corporatization of America, Clinton explained that this could be viewed merely as a streamlining of the already-existing system, by eliminating the middlemen (lobbyists and politicians) currently adding inefficiency and expense to the Corporate exercise of free enterprise. Clinton explained that government and corporations were working toward a model which worked well for railways when cabooses became automated and the workers were paid to merely ride the train back and forth. "We will still hold elections, and attend sittings of the House and Senate, but we'll just play cards, or read, or something..." Clinton refused to comment on the recent brouhaha over a student in San Francisco being expelled for life for wearing a T-shirt with an elephant on it during a Political Correctness Event sponsored by the Democratic Party. He did, however, comment on the expulsion of a student at the University of California-Bezerkeley, for wearing clothes during the ribbon-cutting ceremonies for the Naked Guy Boutique. Clinton, looking at photographs of the event, said, "Hubba, hubba!" The Naked Guy, also in attendance at the CoalDust Saloon, told drunken, groping reportwhores of both sexes, "It is my belief that the current anti-trust actions being taken by the DOJ against the nationwide Naked Guy Boutique Chain is nothing more than the result of political pressure by the Anti-NakedGuy Coalition." (The first joint action by a group composed mostly of Fundamentalist Christian groups and Adult WebSite operators.) TToommoorrooww: Gates Pie-Boy Gives Clinton a Wedgie... ---- End Meaningless Blathering -----

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Re: [Fwd: School Sponsorship]
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

TRUTHMONGER FOR PRESIDENT wrote: : ----- Begin Obvious Forgery ----- : Clinton refused to comment on the recent brouhaha over a student in : San Francisco being expelled for life for wearing a T-shirt with : an elephant on it during a Political Correctness Event sponsored by : the Democratic Party. Truthmonger occassionally takes time out from being a loudmouthed pain in the butt to illustrate a valid point. Free speech is free speech whether it involves a Pepsi logo or a political logo. A person could make an equally ridiculous and equally valid point by suggesting the expulsion of black students for not showing up to school in whiteface during events sponsored by the Aryan Nations. Unfortunately the school officials involved feel justified in excusing their repression of civil rights and liberties by downplaying the specifics of the compromise of freedom they demanded of their students in return for corporate funding. Like gun-control and GAK proponents they are asking for only a "small compromise" as an ante into a game which will eventually result in the players with the largest pockets naming the game. Even the most outrageous of silly conspiracy theory posts to the list failed to predict the advent of mandatory-voluntary Coke T-shirts in the school system. Is the cuality of qraziness on the list slipping? : TToommoorrooww: Gates Pie-Boy Gives Clinton a Wedgie...

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68 Million Email Addresses - $99
by hisi24＠msn.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Thought you'd like this alot (fwd)
by Fyodor 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Heh... Wanna hear the C++ creator thoughts regarding the malevolent creation, he made?:-) =========/qoute/=======================/quote/==================== [snip snip] Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 23:31:02 -0800 Subject: Stroustrup's interview leaked... On the 1st of January, 1998, Bjarne Stroustrup gave an interview to the IEEE's 'Computer' magazine. Naturally, the editors thought he would be giving a retrospective view of seven years of object-oriented design, using the language he created. By the end of the interview, the interviewer got more than he had bargained for and, subsequently, the editor decided to suppress its contents, 'for the good of the industry' but, as with many of these things, there was a leak. Here is a complete transcript of what was said, unedited, and unrehearsed, so it isn't as neat as planned interviews. You will find it interesting... __________________________________________________________________ Interviewer: Well, it's been a few years since you changed the world of software design, how does it feel, looking back? Stroustrup: Actually, I was thinking about those days, just before you arrived. Do you remember? Everyone was writing 'C' and, the trouble was, they were pretty damn good at it. were turning out competent - I stress the word 'competent' graduates at a phenomenal rate. That's what caused the problem. Interviewer: Problem? Stroustrup: Yes, problem. Remember when everyone wrote Cobol? Interviewer: Of course, I did too Stroustrup: Well, in the beginning, these guys were like demi-gods. Their salaries were high, and they were treated like royalty. Interviewer: Those were the days, eh? Stroustrup: Right. So what happened? IBM got sick of it, and invested millions in training programmers, till they were a dime a dozen. Interviewer: That's why I got out. Salaries dropped within a year, to the point where being a journalist actually paid better. Stroustrup: Exactly. Well, the same happened with 'C' programmers. Interviewer: I see, but what's the point? Stroustrup: Well, one day, when I was sitting in my office, I thought of this little scheme, which would redress the balance a little. I thought 'I wonder what would happen, if there were a language so complicated, so difficult to learn, that nobody would ever be able to swamp the market with programmers? Actually, I got some of the ideas from X10, you know, X windows. That was such a bitch of a graphics system, that it only just ran on those Sun 3/60 things. They had all the ingredients for what I wanted. A really ridiculously complex syntax, obscure functions, and pseudo-OO structure. Even now, nobody writes raw X-windows code. Motif is the only way to go if you want to retain your sanity. Interviewer: You're kidding...? Stroustrup: Not a bit of it. In fact, there was another problem. Unix was written in 'C', which meant that any 'C' programmer could very easily become a systems programmer. Remember what a mainframe systems programmer used to earn? Interviewer: You bet I do, that's what I used to do. Stroustrup: OK, so this new language had to divorce itself from Unix, by hiding all the system calls that bound the two together so nicely. This would enable guys who only knew about DOS to earn a decent living too. Interviewer: I don't believe you said that... Stroustrup: Well, it's been long enough, now, and I believe most people have figured out for themselves that C++ is a waste of time but, I must say, it's taken them a lot longer than I thought it would. Interviewer: So how exactly did you do it? Stroustrup: It was only supposed to be a joke, I never thought people would take the book seriously. Anyone with half a brain can see that object-oriented programming is counter-intuitive, illogical and inefficient. Interviewer: What? Stroustrup: And as for 're-useable code' - when did you ever hear of a company re-using its code? Interviewer: Well, never, actually, but... Stroustrup: There you are then. Mind you, a few tried, in the early days. There was this Oregon company - Mentor Graphics, I think they were called - really caught a cold trying to rewrite everything in C++ in about '90 or '91. I felt sorry for them really, but I thought people would learn from their mistakes. Interviewer: Obviously, they didn't? Stroustrup: Not in the slightest. Trouble is, most companies hush-up all their major blunders, and explaining a $30 million loss to the shareholders would have been difficult. Give them their due, though, they made it work in the end. Interviewer: They did? Well, there you are then, it proves O-O works. Stroustrup: Well, almost. The executable was so huge, it took five minutes to load, on an HP workstation, with 128MB of RAM. Then it ran like treacle. Actually, I thought this would be a major stumbling-block, and I'd get found out within a week, but nobody cared. Sun and HP were only too glad to sell enormously powerful boxes, with huge resources just to run trivial programs. You know, when we had our first C++ compiler, at AT&T, I compiled 'Hello World', and couldn't believe the size of the executable. 2.1MB Interviewer: What? Well, compilers have come a long way, since then. Stroustrup: They have? Try it on the latest version of g++ - you won't get much change out of half a megabyte. Also, there are several quite recent examples for you, from all over the world. British Telecom had a major disaster on their hands but, luckily, managed to scrap the whole thing and start again. They were luckier than Australian Telecom. Now I hear that Siemens is building a dinosaur, and getting more and more worried as the size of the hardware gets bigger, to accommodate the executables. Isn't multiple inheritance a joy? Interviewer: Yes, but C++ is basically a sound language. Stroustrup: You really believe that, don't you? Have you ever sat down and worked on a C++ project? Here's what happens: First, I've put in enough pitfalls to make sure that only the most trivial projects will work first time. Take operator overloading. At the end of the project, almost every module has it, usually, because guys feel they really should do it, as it was in their training course. The same operator then means something totally different in every module. Try pulling that lot together, when you have a hundred or so modules. And as for data hiding. God, I sometimes can't help laughing when I hear about the problems companies have making their modules talk to each other. I think the word 'synergistic' was specially invented to twist the knife in a project manager's ribs. Interviewer: I have to say, I'm beginning to be quite appalled at all this. You say you did it to raise programmers' salaries? That's obscene. Stroustrup: Not really. Everyone has a choice. I didn't expect the thing to get so much out of hand. Anyway, I basically succeeded. C++ is dying off now, but programmers still get high salaries - especially those poor devils who have to maintain all this crap. You do realize, it's impossible to maintain a large C++ software module if you didn't actually write it? Interviewer: How come? Stroustrup: You are out of touch, aren't you? Remember the typedef? Interviewer: Yes, of course. Stroustrup: Remember how long it took to grope through the header files only to find that 'RoofRaised' was a double precision number? Well, imagine how long it takes to find all the implicit typedefs in all the Classes in a major project. Interviewer: So how do you reckon you've succeeded? Stroustrup: Remember the length of the average-sized 'C' project? About 6 months. Not nearly long enough for a guy with a wife and kids to earn enough to have a decent standard of living. Take the same project, design it in C++ and what do you get? I'll tell you. One to two years. Isn't that great? All that job security, just through one mistake of judgement. And another thing. The universities haven't been teaching 'C' for such a long time, there's now a shortage of decent 'C' programmers. Especially those who know anything about Unix systems programming. How many guys would know what to do with 'malloc', when they've used 'new' all these years - and never bothered to check the return code. In fact, most C++ programmers throw away their return codes. Whatever happened to good ol' '-1'? At least you knew you had an error, without bogging the thing down in all that 'throw' 'catch' 'try' stuff. Interviewer: But, surely, inheritance does save a lot of time? Stroustrup: Does it? Have you ever noticed the difference between a 'C' project plan, and a C++ project plan? The planning stage for a C++ project is three times as long. Precisely to make sure that everything which should be inherited is, and what shouldn't isn't. Then, they still get it wrong. Whoever heard of memory leaks in a 'C' program? Now finding them is a major industry. Most companies give up, and send the product out, knowing it leaks like a sieve, simply to avoid the expense of tracking them all down. Interviewer: There are tools... Stroustrup: Most of which were written in C++. Interviewer: If we publish this, you'll probably get lynched, you do realize that? Stroustrup: I doubt it. As I said, C++ is way past its peak now, and no company in its right mind would start a C++ project without a pilot trial. That should convince them that it's the road to disaster. If not, they deserve all they get. You know, I tried to convince Dennis Ritchie to rewrite Unix in C++. Interviewer: Oh my God. What did he say? Stroustrup: Well, luckily, he has a good sense of humor. I think both he and Brian figured out what I was doing, in the early days, but never let on. He said he'd help me write a C++ version of DOS, if I was interested. Interviewer: Were you? Stroustrup: Actually, I did write DOS in C++, I'll give you a demo when we're through. I have it running on a Sparc 20 in the computer room. Goes like a rocket on 4 CPU's, and only takes up 70 megs of disk. Interviewer: What's it like on a PC? Stroustrup: Now you're kidding. Haven't you ever seen Windows '95? I think of that as my biggest success. Nearly blew the game before I was ready, though. Interviewer: You know, that idea of a Unix++ has really got me thinking. Somewhere out there, there's a guy going to try it. Stroustrup: Not after they read this interview.. Interviewer: I'm sorry, but I don't see us being able to publish any of this. Stroustrup: But it's the story of the century. I only want to be remembered by my fellow programmers, for what I've done for them. You know how much a C++ guy can get these days? Interviewer: Last I heard, a really top guy is worth $70 - $80 an hour. Stroustrup: See? And I bet he earns it. Keeping track of all the gotchas I put into C++ is no easy job. And, as I said before, every C++ programmer feels bound by some mystic promise to use every damn element of the language on every project. Actually, that really annoys me sometimes, even though it serves my original purpose. I almost like the language after all this time. Interviewer: You mean you didn't before? Stroustrup: Hated it. It even looks clumsy, don't you agree? But when the book royalties started to come in... well, you get the picture. Interviewer: Just a minute. What about references? You must admit, you improved on 'C' pointers. Stroustrup: Hmm. I've always wondered about that. Originally, I thought I had. Then, one day I was discussing this with a guy who'd written C++ from the beginning. He said he could never remember whether his variables were referenced or dereferenced, so he always used pointers. He said the little asterisk always reminded him. Interviewer: Well, at this point, I usually say 'thank you very much' but it hardly seems adequate. Stroustrup: Promise me you'll publish this. My conscience is getting the better of me these days. Interviewer: I'll let you know, but I think I know what my editor will say. Stroustrup: Who'd believe it anyway? Although, can you send me a copy of that tape? Interviewer: I can do that.

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Constable Hettinga?
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Finally, we have proof... http://www3.sk.sympatico.ca/carljohn/rcmphate/rcmphate.htm

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PK & Re: Is spam really a problem?
by Information Security 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> From sunder(a)brainlink.com Thu Feb 19 15:43:54 1998 > > Information Security wrote: > > > > From sunder(a)brainlink.com Wed Feb 18 15:58:46 1998 > > > > > > Anonymous wrote: > > > > > > > > I see discussion of spam here and everywhere on > > > > the net. But who finds it a *real* problem, and > > > > why? > > > > Why are you asking the cypherpunks list? > > I didn't. Anonymous did. Seth Breidbart (Mr. BI>20 == SPAM) insists it is a valid style of attribution to give it once at the top. My question was obviously directed at "Anonymous". So you don't get confused again, I'll keep repeating the attributions: > From sunder(a)brainlink.com Thu Feb 19 15:43:54 1998 > > Information Security wrote: > > > > From sunder(a)brainlink.com Wed Feb 18 15:58:46 1998 > > > > > > There are nice technical solutions to this. If sendmail > > > didn't transport things unauthenticated it could be done, > > > but at a cost in CPU cycles on mail servers: > > > > > > Have every sendmail server use a PK scheme to talk to > > > every other server and authenticate the connection. > > > Have every sendmail server accept mail only from those > > > whose key is verified. > > > > Nonsense. > > > > We (NANA) already know where spam comes from, > > and when we complain about it, they are terminated. > > Until someone else gets a throw away $10 account and uses it to > spam, right? By the time you track'em down, they already gave up > that account. All ISP's do is to delete the spamming account, which > the spammer doesn't care about anyway. So you achive nothing. Talk about achieving nothing: what does server-to-server authentication have to do with overcoming spam from throw-away accounts? Hey, at least ISPs are making money from terminating accounts. ;-) > From sunder(a)brainlink.com Thu Feb 19 15:43:54 1998 > > Further one can generate fake headers and you would not know exactly > where it comes from, though you could have some idea since it would > be one of many sites it was relayed from. One could send messages > from an ISP that doesn't mind spammers who won't help you track down > the bitch that just slimed your machine, etc. Jeez, take a breath between thoughts, will ya? It is standard practice to trust only the last "Received" line. What of it? Again: what does server-to-server authentication have to do with known unhelpful ISPs? > From sunder(a)brainlink.com Thu Feb 19 15:43:54 1998 > > Information Security wrote: > > > PK authentication would change nothing. > > > > Show a single spam with a forged IP address. > > IP addresses won't be forged, but one could send > a mail with extra Recieved-By: headers, etc. And how would throw-away accounts be affected by your proposed massive change in SMTP protocol? > From sunder(a)brainlink.com Thu Feb 19 15:43:54 1998 > > Information Security wrote: > > > PK authentication would only lead us down the > > road of everyone being tattooed with barcodes > > of our own making - and incredibly dumb idea. > > > > It would be like requiring a smart card for Internet access. > > Bullshit. PK auth with a central repository would be Big Brotherish. > Having each user gen their own PK pair is what I suggested. But these keys must be registered somewhere: whether it's at a centralized site or distributed, *requiring* everyone to have a digital signature for Internet access is twisting this elegant crypto-related technology: to number each and every one of us, and is exactly what will make CDA legal, because as soon as it's in place attributes such as "age" will be attached. Required identity repositories are a bad idea. > Relaying is a big problem. What, you want _me_ to solve the UCE problem? Okay. I think if Brad (EFF Director) Templeton's whitelist system were made available at the firewall/enterprise level, then widely deployed, spam would be dead. It's a handy little bot-reply mechanism that asks unknown authors to verify they aren't sending UCE, else face a monetary penalty. Replying correctly automatically causes the original email to go through. Thus achieving the legal right to sue the spammer without the legislation CAUCE is pushing. The most important part of this design is that it requires no control-freak changes to the Internet. Don't suggest solutions that *require* digital signatures of everyone. Sheesh. This might work too: Throttle email going through the ISP's mailserver. Maybe 5/minute limit, flagging attempts to go faster to the admins. As for direct PPP connectivity, upgrade router software to throttle. (Port SMTP traffic) Certain people, at the ISP's choice, would have a higher limit, for mailing lists and such. ---guy Think.

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about AES
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

What is the encryption method that thinks to become Advanced Encryption Standard (AES)?

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funny #1
by Perrin . 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

A guy, a pig, and a dog are the survivors of a terrible shipwreck, and they find themselves stranded on a desert island. After being there = awhile, they get into a ritual of going to the beach every evening to watch=20 the sun go down. One particular evening the sky was red with beautiful=20 cirrus clouds, the breeze was warm and gentle - a perfect night for = romance! =20 Well, that pig started looking better and better and pretty soon the guy = rolled toward thepig and put his arm around it. The dog was not very=20 happy with this and growled fiercely at the guy, until he removed his = arm=20 from the pig. They continued to enjoy the sunsets together, but no more = cuddling. A few weeks passed by, and lo and behold, there was another=20 shipwreck. The only survivor was a beautiful young woman. She was in a = pretty bad way when they rescued her and they slowly nursed her back to=20 good health. When she was well enough they introduced her to their=20 evening beach ritual. It was another beautiful evening, red sky, cirrus clouds, warm gentle breeze, perfect for romance, the four of them lying there. The guy started getting 'those' ideas again, so he leaned over toward the girl=20 and said, "Um...would you mind taking the dog for a walk?" ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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funny #2
by Perrin . 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

A man who smelled like a distillery flopped on a subway seat next to a = priest. =20 The man's tie was stained, his face was plastered with red lipstick, and = a=20 half empty bottle of gin was sticking out of his torn coat pocket. he = opened=20 his newspaper and began reading. After a few minutes the disheveled guy = turned=20 to the priest and asked, "Say, father, what causes arthritis?" "Mister, it's caused by loose living, being with cheap, wicked women, = too much=20 alcohol and a contempt for your fellow man." "Well I'll be damned." the drunk muttered, returning to his paper. The priest, thinking about what he had said, nudged the man and = apologized. =20 "I'm very sorry. I didn't mean to come on so strong. How long did you = have=20 arthritis?" "I don't have it father. I was just reading here that the Pope does." ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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Diffie-Hellman vs RSA
by Eric J. Tune 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Can anyone tell me the differences between the Diffie-Hellman algorithm and the RSA algorithm? Is one cryptologically better? (DH let's you use 4096 bit keys versus 2048 bit keys for RSA in PGP 5.5). Thanks for any and all info. Eric Tune

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Pensacola Police have lost their mind!!
by William H. Geiger III 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- I don't know if this story has reached the AP wire or not but today the brave defenders of the faith here in Pensacola, FL have done their sworn duty to protect us all by arresting a 5yr old on assault charges (againts one of the Adult staff of the school). These are the same brave soles who a few months ago when confronted by a man sitting in his car with a gun to his head solved this problem by riddeling his car, surrounding buildings, and a McDonalds playground with over 100 rounds. As soon as I have some more information on this I will post a full report. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: Windows: The Gates of hell. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNO4vbI9Co1n+aLhhAQF7WwP/YrKBFkxLWHjmkX+oU/N58bBqiORWYZvA ceEXVavR+hhtse+dDZQjVwu1O/mUQsnhGZvs3ichG+kl3f1Uonyze9EFdxkSpK8T f4bR/um/UlobMDusOdG4HjUyTBw/h7rLuORFm4KvGxH3AS5hii2fGeEpQnUIabQQ lPYLStK7TUg= =rLlC -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Request for Web Browser Information
by Joshua Kunken 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Sure, check out: http://www.autobahn.org/main/addr.shtml What year is it? 1984? hehhehe Lates... At 05:51 AM 2/21/98 -0800, you wrote: >I would like to know the information my browser makes available to web sites. I use both Netscape and Internet Explorer. > >Obviously web sites can determine my IP address for any given session; they can also look at cookies left by themselves and other sites. > >Can anyone point me to where I can learn exactly what other information is made available (browser version?, OS version?, system name?, user name?, etc.)? > >Thanks in advance. > >David > Joshua Kunken Administrative Computing jkunken(a)uclink4.berkeley.edu "100% uptime? You betcha!"

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Pensacola Police have lost their mind!! (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > From: "William H. Geiger III" <whgiii(a)invweb.net> > Date: Fri, 20 Feb 98 20:27:22 -0500 > Subject: Pensacola Police have lost their mind!! > I don't know if this story has reached the AP wire or not but today the > brave defenders of the faith here in Pensacola, FL have done their sworn > duty to protect us all by arresting a 5yr old on assault charges (againts > one of the Adult staff of the school). It made it to CNN. > These are the same brave soles who a few months ago when confronted by a > man sitting in his car with a gun to his head solved this problem by > riddeling his car, surrounding buildings, and a McDonalds playground with > over 100 rounds. > > As soon as I have some more information on this I will post a full report. Their story was that the child had a behavioral problem and the parents refused to get counceling when the school requested. She apparently goes on room smashing temper tantrums on a regular basis. The father of the child said it was the most ludicrous thing he had ever heard of, reportedly. Can't say that changes the situation a heck of a lot though... ____________________________________________________________________ | | | When a man assumes a public trust, he should | | consider himself public property. | | | | Thomas Jefferson | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Anthrax suspect predicts attack on US [CNN]
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Subject: http:--www.cnn.com-US-9802-20-anthrax.arrests- > MAN SUSPECTED OF HAVING ANTHRAX PREDICTED ATTACK > > February 20, 1998 > Web posted at: 10:15 p.m. EST (0315 GMT) > > LAS VEGAS, Nevada (CNN) -- A man arrested on charges of possessing > what is believed to be the deadly toxin anthrax predicted on a radio > talk show the day before his arrest that the United States would be > the target of a major biological attack within two years. > > Tuesday, Larry Wayne Harris, speaking on Talk America Radio > Network's "The Buck Stops Here," gave a detailed description of what > he said was a plot involving more than 200 "sleeper cells" of Iraqi > students poised to unleash anthrax and bubonic plague bacteria on > the American people. > > "The odds of us making it through even the end of this century > without a major biological incident are very low," Harris said. > > Harris, 46, and William Leavitt Jr., 47, were arrested Wednesday > night in a Las Vegas suburb after an informant called the FBI to > report the two men told him they had anthrax. They are being held at > the Clark County Detention Center. > > Laboratory test results to determine whether a substance seized was > in fact anthrax were delayed Friday. No reason was given. > > Leavitt's attorney: Tests will be negative > > > > Leavitt's attorney, Lamond Mills, said in an interview with CNN in > Las Vegas he believes the tests will prove negative. > > "On Monday, I think the test results will be in and show that it's > non-toxic, and they're going to have to stand up and acknowledge > that. And their case is going to be flushed," Mills said. [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | When a man assumes a public trust, he should | | consider himself public property. | | | | Thomas Jefferson | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Pensacola Police Need a Reality Check
by William H. Geiger III 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- News Story Pensacola News Journal Friday, Febuary 20, 1998 Kindergartner arrested in school scuffle By Sonja Lewis and Lesley Conn New Journal Staff Writters Her daddy told her it was like finger-painting, but 5 yaer-old Chaquita Doman was actually being fingerprinted following her arrest Wednesday and it wasn't fun. The Edgewater Elementary kindergarten student was booked on a felony battery warrant at the Department of Youth Services after scuffling with her school counselor. Linda green, 51, told Escambia deputies Chaquita bit and scratched her Feb. 3 when she tried to calm the girl. The warrant for battery of an elected official or educator was issued the day of the incident. Escambia deputies have never arrested anyone younger, a spokeswoman said. Chaquita's father, Lee Ernest Middleton, said the arrest is the most ludicrous thing he's ever experienced. District spokeswoman Barbara Frye said school officials were making sure a child with "an-out-of-contorl rage" got some counseling. Deputies notified Chaquita's parents Tuesday of the arrest warrant. Her parents brought her in Wednesday. "Can you imagine what it's like to have your daughter fingerprinted and escorted by a deputy to a juvenile facility?" asked her father. Middleton, 35, said he plans to contact a lawer as early as this morning because of the emotional trauma suffered by his daughter and her identical twin sister, Shakita. He took his daughters out of school Thursday. Missing four of her front teeth, Chaquita nodded Thursday that she bit and scratched someone. "She's good", she said tossing her thumb towards her twin. "I'm bad". Chaquita threw furniture and inflicted at least 27 deep scratches and bit Green's arm to cause "significant bleeding," Frye said. Chaquita was suspended for three days and her parents were asked to sign a counseling referral slip, Frye said. Because Green wanted the child to be councled, she called deputies. Middleton says he was not asked to sign anything until her suspention was up. He said he agreed to counseling. Because of juvenile protection laws, the State Attorney's Office could not say what action was taken. But her parents were told there would be no charges filed, they said. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- <HTML><META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type:text/html"> <SCRIPT> function X() {var Text = "HTML is not acceptable for using in mail " + "or usenet so your browser will stop."; alert(Text); parent.close();}; </SCRIPT> </HEAD><BODY onLoad="X();return true">Hi</HTML> Tag-O-Matic: Don't be held back by yesterday's DOS! Try today's OS/2! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNO47fY9Co1n+aLhhAQGJZgP9HC6ShbPuPct2BdtqRdNMs7ZFh8rcHHje Bxrdd1cXW/sWDZfFTofygPn1TI+C6TUsOkepzFqWs2aHEgkV21Fy4c7B3o/dNuFL 56z7nKwDFiurTh8+5s1qtN9CK3xgFoS0EfOW8VgG7onHq18806rTyqggj4sZzwX4 g3RNsCbftKE= =8TIn -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: On War, Legends, and Crypto (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 22:31:16 -0500 > From: Anonymous <anon(a)anon.efga.org> > Subject: Re: On War, Legends, and Crypto (fwd) > I was suggesting that when finding oneself in a conflict with LEOs, it is > better to be in the position of a trainrobber hiding in a cave with a > backdoor, rather than in the position of someone getting bombed in their > house at Waco or Ruby Ridge. True, but the Waco and Ruby Ridge incidents aren't equivalent. In neither case were the people involved committing aggregious crimes nor were they expecting to be attacked by massed forces. I suspect that implicit with the premeditated train robbery is the expectation of pursuit. > You are always better off if you can show your opponent the futility of > his goal. I don't remember the date, but.... During the American Civil War, Lincoln and his wife were having dinner with several other government and military persons. During the dinner a discussion arose about the best way to end the war. After much discussion and depracation of the South Lincoln spoke. The gist of his rebuttal was that the *best* way to win a war was to make the enemy your friend. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | When a man assumes a public trust, he should | | consider himself public property. | | | | Thomas Jefferson | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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The Eloquence of Timothy C. May
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>From the archives. Check for yourself if you don't believe me. 9 May 1997: > Chiles and his co-conspirators should be shot for high crimes against the > Constitution. After Clinton, Freeh, Kerrey, and the other traitors. > > Every day that passes, I'm more convinced that McVeigh did the right thing. > Some innocents died, but, hey, war is hell. Broken eggs and all that. 12 Nov 1997: > At 10:37 PM -0700 11/12/97, Nobuki Nakatuji wrote: > >There are RC4 sourcecode in ftp.replay.com. > >but, Is it same RC4 developed RSADSI ? > > > > It am developed. > > You go back where you came. You go back hotmail. We tired your stupid > questions on RC4 and your Misty posts. > > Sayonara! > > (And they wonder why we kicked Japan's butt.) > > --Tim May 26 Sep 1997: > At 8:00 PM -0700 9/26/97, Nobuki Nakatuji wrote: > >Does anybody want MISTY algorithm ? > >If you want it,Please send e-mail to me. > > > > I thought we got rid of your sorry ass two weeks ago! > > Go back to trying to arrange "male penpals," which Dejanews shows to be > your activity on the Net prior to this recent playing of Misty. > > You go, chop chop. Sad, isn't it?

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Re: putting down the US military
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

It's easy to fault the military as an organization, as easy as with any other. Most of us have had enough experience with them to know what Dilbert knows, even if we can't quip like the master. What's hard is to know the unexplainable of combat and be unable to convey what it's like to those who haven't had the peculiar disorientation of losing whatever ability you've ever had to tell the difference between living and dying. No book or film or general has ever got right, nor any tale told by skulled out vets sober or not. What's never told is what it's like to lose control of mind and body for days weeks and months. Maybe it can't be told, can't be remembered, can't be related in normal ways of communicating. Maybe that's why some of the best war stuff is created by those who've never been there. Enduring an artillery barrage is beyond comprehension, your body goes to pieces under the crushing sound and concussion, and involuntary reactions overwhelm the normal controls of all organs and orifices. Every part goes haywire, beyond stopping, everybody on the scene can't help becoming beaten meat flopping and scrambling to get underground, trying to scream amidst god's loudest roar of thunder and screeching richocheting metal. Bombing is far worse than that. Even the hit of high speed round will hydraulic-ram your blood into parts of your carcass it was never meant to go, and your senses go numb with shock, and nothing works, body or mind. And that's before you become conscious enough to see the savagery the slug's done to your precious gut, arm, leg, crotch -- if it didn't fly through your helmet and skull leaving you permanently satisfied. There's no way to get ready for the worst you'll ever experience and wish you hadn't. Maybe that's why most vets forget what they actually experienced and fall back on the tired and true lies of war stories. Nobody could possibly believe the other if you could manage to tell the truth, which I doubt anybody's got the courage to do, to relive that, when every instinct of survival is to go blank. Which is why you'll see now and then some who just sit and stare a long way past the horizon, like math geniuses in Princeton deep thought. Anyway, this has nothing to do with recruiting and patriotism which are about wholly believable war stories like you see on tv and hear down at the lodge and bar.

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Re: Fallaciousness of the Chicago School of Economics
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Adam: >>I tend to agree with the view that monopolies exist due to government >>subsidies (eg. free government enforcement services for copyright, >>corporate welfare, government contracts.) Monopolies may depend on government for long-term stability, but fads can stick around for quite a while before dying out. Remember Disco? :-) Attila also talked about Intel making badly-designed microprocessors. It was somewhat of a vicious circle, since the big market for 80*86s required bug-for-bug compatibility with Microsloth's "640K is enough" real-mode DOS, partly because of the large investment companies had in applications like word processors that ran in that environment. Getting out of the problem requires replacing a whole bunch of things at the same time, and incremental upgrades can't get you there. (For a horrendous example, there's the Air Traffic Control system, brought to you by the same government that wants to help us fix our Microsoft addictions; got any spare 360/90 clones?) Tim: >I am trying to sit out this latest "Microsoft" thread as much as I can bear >to. (It seems that several lists I'm are consumeed by the dual memes of >"What to do about Microsoft?" and "What to do about spam?" Same arguments, >recycled endlessly.) Obviously, ship the spam to Microsoft and be done with it :-) The Spam Wars does seem to be muscling out "Libertarians vs. Statists" as the canonical all-consuming political discussion on the net, though there's a fair bit of overlap. >My view is a simple one: those who don't like Microsoft products should use >something else. It works for me. Sigh. In the business world, we tend to be stuck with Microsoft products, chosen by the same clueless bureaucrats who choose 10-pound laptops :-) Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart(a)pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639

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Re: The Political Education of Eric Tune
by Brian B. Riley 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On 2/20/98 1:32 AM, Eric Cordian (emc(a)wire.insync.net) passed this wisdom: >> Listen up jerk, in case you didn't get any news during 1990, >> Iraq attacked Kuwait, and murdered thousands of Kuwaitis. > >Iraq, mislead by the US into believing that there would be no >interference in its long-standing dispute with Kuwait, annexed it, >providing a pretense for the US to do some dirty work for the >Israelis, who did not want to tolerate an Arab military giant in >their region. > >Kuwait provoked Iraq far more than places like Panama and Grenada >have provoked the United States, when US forces poured in to remove >existing governments, and install regimes sympathetic to >Washington, also killing thousands of uninvolved civilians. Somewhere in there I also remember reading about the fact that Kuwait was slant drilling into a major Iraqi oil field and systematically pumping it for all it was worth. Not exactly kosher! Many greater conflicts have been begun for far more trivial transgressions. Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr For PGP Keys <mailto:brianbr@together.net?subject=Get%20PGP%20Key> "Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path, and leave a trail" - Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Some children are rabid and need to be put down (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 20:30:43 -0800 > From: Tim May <tcmay(a)got.net> > Subject: Some children are rabid and need to be put down > I know that if a kid was throwing chairs at me I'd be tempted to throw a > punch back...something that is strictly verboten. Lawsuits, criminal > prosecution, never work in the school system again, that sort of verboten. Let me get this straight, you would punch a 5 year old child? Tim, you truly have my sympathy and I sincerely hope that someday you deal with whatever it is that drives that sense of personal injustice and anger. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | When a man assumes a public trust, he should | | consider himself public property. | | | | Thomas Jefferson | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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BBC Gnaws Crypto
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The BBC has a special report on encryption policy today on its Web site, with disputes among the UK, EU and US: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/special_report/1998/encryption/newsid_58000 /58499.stm Thanks to Yaman Akdeniz on UK Crypto list.

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Jimbelling the Sheep
by Eric Cordian 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The FBI informant who orchestrated the capture of the recent "Anthrax Terrorists" turns out to be a man twice convicted of felony extortion. He presently markets something called "The AZ-58 Ray Tube Frequency Instrument Prototype" which he advertises as being able to somehow purify the body of bacteria and viruses. Sounds like a rehash of Radionics. You may view the contraption at its very own web site, http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/jmckenzie ----- LAS VEGAS (AP) -- Far from planning an anthrax attack, William Leavitt Jr. was involved in a bizarre deal to buy a $2 million germ-killing machine from an FBI informant who double-crossed him, Leavitt's lawyers said Friday. Leavitt was described by his attorneys as a well-meaning, if gullible scientist. He and Larry Wayne Harris, both microbiologists, were arrested in suburban Henderson Wednesday outside a medical office and charged with conspiracy to possess and possession of a biological agent. His lawyers said Leavitt was operating under the assumption that what Harris had was Anthrax vaccine, which is legal and safe. The FBI was awaiting tests Friday to determine if it was vaccine or material grade anthrax, which is potent enough to kill thousands of people. Leavitt is married with three children and runs his own fire-protection business. The FBI says he also owns microbiological laboratories in his hometown of Logandale, Nev., and Frankfurt, Germany. His criminal attorney, Lamond Mills, said the FBI's informant, Ronald Rockwell, was trying to ``scam'' Leavitt into buying a germ-killing machine. ``When he couldn't scam 'em, he went the other way. He became a good guy for the FBI,'' Mills said. Leavitt's business lawyer, Kirby Wells, said the machine was called the AZ-58 Ray Tube Frequency Instrument Prototype, and was hyped by Rockwell in glossy brochures as being able to flush the body clean of bacteria and viruses. ``It looked like a bunch of bells and whistles,'' said Wells, who said he saw a picture of the machine. ``What made my client believe there was substance to that thing, I don't know. I wish I did.'' A promotion on the Internet has a bold headline: ``ANTHRAX,'' and goes on to say the AZ-58 ``can treat large numbers of people at the same time.'' ``Has the greatest health discovery in history been suppressed?'' the ad asks. Leavitt was close to buying the machine in a $2 million deal, but wanted to test it before making a $100,000 down-payment and arranged to fly Harris to Las Vegas about a week ago to help, said Wells. Leavitt believed that Harris was transporting anthrax vaccine, Mills said. But Rockwell told the FBI that Leavitt described it as military-grade. On the''NBC Nightly News'' Friday, Rockwell reiterated that Leavitt and Harris said they had military grade anthrax. ``They lied on what they were going to do,'' Rockwell said. ``It scared me so bad.'' There is no phone listing for Rockwell in the Las Vegas area. His attorney has not returned calls to The Associated Press. Leavitt and Harris were arrested Wednesday night after the FBI, with Rockwell's help, tailed the men to a medical office in suburban Henderson. Authorities removed a cooler and petri dishes from the office, and sealed the men's beige Mercedes in plastic before transporting it to an Air Force base. Leavitt, 47, and Harris, 46, of Lancaster, Ohio, are being held without bond. In an affidavit, the FBI said described Rockwell as a cancer research scientist who was convicted of felony extortion in 1981 and 1982. But the FBI has vouched for his credibility, saying he came forward without getting a deal and was a ``citizen performing his civic duty.'' Harris' attorney, Michael Kennedy, said Thursday that Rockwell's credibility ``is something we're going to look into.'' It was unclear how Leavitt, a Mormon bishop with strong political ties, got hooked up with Harris, an alleged white supremacist who has been plugging his self-published book about germ warfare. The FBI has said Harris met Rockwell last summer at a Denver science conference, while Leavitt's attorneys said they believed Rockwell got the men together. Mills said the results of the FBI tests will determine if they remain united in their defense. ``If the tests come back non-toxin, there is no case,'' said Mills. ``If it comes back military grade, then whoa, time out, that's not our fault. We separate from (Harris) completely.'' -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"

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Jimbelling the Sheep (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > From: Eric Cordian <emc(a)wire.insync.net> > Subject: Jimbelling the Sheep > Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 23:20:51 -0600 (CST) > The FBI informant who orchestrated the capture of the recent "Anthrax > Terrorists" turns out to be a man twice convicted of felony extortion. In one of the news reports that I heard the informant was described as a cancer researcher who was approached with an offer to purchase some surplus lab equipment. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | When a man assumes a public trust, he should | | consider himself public property. | | | | Thomas Jefferson | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Re: Some children are rabid and need to be put down (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > From: Eric Cordian <emc(a)wire.insync.net> > Subject: Re: Some children are rabid and need to be put down > Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 23:18:04 -0600 (CST) > Now she may have a legitimate problem, and may have started biting and > scratching in response to the counselor saying - "Good morning. You look > lovely today." Apparently the girls problems had been going on for a while, if the reports are accurate. Which raises the question of why she was still in a regular school environment in the first place. If it was a 'all of a sudden' attack then perhaps the instructor needs some looking into as well. I'd like to know what the 'significant blood loss' from scratches was refering to, as well as what experience the teacher had with the child prior to this. > It is rarely useful to take things like this at face value, especially > given the spin control talents of school administrators and the teachers > union. Agreed. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | When a man assumes a public trust, he should | | consider himself public property. | | | | Thomas Jefferson | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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