December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Dr. Vulis is not on cypherpunks any more [VULIS]
by Rich Graves 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > > I guess libertarian philosophy permits operating a private mailing > list and imposing whatever rules the host deems necessary to invent. Clearly. And contractural principles suggest that there should be transparency in those rules. > The question is, can this ist be called a free medium for exchange of > ideas, or not. My answer is no. I say you're wrong. Vulis has been denied nothing but the dignity of reading the list under his own name. He still has freedom to read under a pseudonym, and he still has freedom to post under his own name, or any other. > Moderated forums might create some utility (by saving the time of > their participants, for example), but they should identify themselves > as such. Such as by notifying the list that exactly one particularly obnoxious member has been kicked off, and allowing *unlimited* discussion on the list about the impact of doing so? I think this is working. - -rich - --- [This message has been signed by an auto-signing service. A valid signature means only that it has been received at the address corresponding to the signature and forwarded.] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Gratis auto-signing service iQBFAwUBMn/BzSoZzwIn1bdtAQGk+wGAgv2SrJzetHEzgs9DxahGvB8ReGWi8mDB aEGj8o8aW2DNGrDSx4f8DBDS4a8605Tc =oQeM -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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[rant] Re: Censorship on cypherpunks
by Sean Roach 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> >Obviously many voluntary religious organizations have quite strict rules >for their members and are compatible with libertarianism. Government >monopoly regulations that cannot be opted out of are not compatible with >libertarianism. May I remind you that if you want to leave this country, all you have to do is board a plane. Many people have suggested similar things about various groups for about two centuries. The major difference between this list and this government is that it is easier to start a new list.

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[noise] Re: Sliderules, Logs, and Prodigies
by Sean Roach 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Peter Trei wrote: > >When I was in high school, slide rules and log tables were standard >equipment - calculators started to come in towards the end. There >was a *lot* of controversy over their use in exams, and in homework >('show your working...'). At one point, you could use a calculator, but >only if you noted the fact (and model) on your exam paper. If I remember my history right, the order that math was done often depended on the model of calculator it was done on. I remember being warned as late as 1991 how some calculators may still still add before they multiply, and to use those parenthesis for good measure, just to be safe. >I still treasure one of the heirlooms from my grandfather - a 12 >inch bamboo rule, with his name carefully engraved in engineering >lettering ( which he used during his 50+ years at Ma Bell). I know where there used to be a basic model slide rule that spans about 10 feet, it was mounted on the wall of the math room where I spent junior high. My dad actually taught me basic arithemetic on it. (Ironically, on the opposite wall were the computers, an Apple IIe, a Commodore 64, two TI99/4a's and about 4 Tandy 1000/tx's, this did all take place before 1989) Sean Roach

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News: Europe Wants Stronger Encryption
by Ernest Hua 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>From C/Net News (http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,5076,00.html) Europe wants stronger encryption By Alex Lash November 5, 1996, 5:30 a.m. PT The European Electronic Messaging Association has told the European Commission that European companies are at a competitive disadvantage without access to strong American-made cryptography, according to the organization. ....

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"censorship in cyberspace"???
by Vladimir Z. Nuri 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I don't understand why people rant so much about censorship in cyberspace, given the ease of buying a new tentacle. a long time ago getting a new internet account was a big deal, but now they are as prolific as flies. you can now buy them for $7/mo from Community Connections, courtesy of another cypherpunk (Sameer Parekh) on this list. you even get a 5mb web site at this price, as I understand it. I'd be interested in hearing of any other "tentacle havens" out there if anyone has any comment. <g> my main point is that it's merely a semantic concept to say that someone is "censored" from a mailing list. it's not really possible to do such a thing anymore given how easy it is to get new internet account with no ID necessary. you can fight it or you can surf on it!! it's quite ironic that to have the ability for a moderator to have a "civilized" forum with a guaranteed ability to obstruct certain individuals, would require what cpunks would consider an orwellian identification system. (tying a human to their cyberspace posts. it could be done.) p.s. one of these days I wonder if someone is going to mount a really concerted attack against a mailing list using a full tentacle arsenal instead of only a single email address or anonymous remailers, just for the kicks of it. the "automatic prose generator" technology out there leaves a lot of other interesting ideas. an ingenious software engineer with a flair for writing could create some pretty sophisticated grammars that automatically generate text yet are impossible to detect over perhaps even dozens of messages output by them. they could even have their own personalities and writing styles, if the software engineer were creative and devious enough. it's just a matter of time, and really every mailing list in the world is defenseless against it. does anyone have a technical solution? you'd solve one of mankinds most pressing and difficult problems ever encountered: "spam". on the other hand, maybe such a thing has already happened and no one knows about it. or maybe its happening right now on this list. it would be absolutely impossible to detect in all the typical noise if the "graffiti artist" were crafty enough. (hee, hee)

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FOR_tun
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tim May wrote: >I didn't see mention of the long article on crypto, export issues, >RSADSI, Bidzos, the NSA, etc., in the current issue of "Fortune" >magazine, 11 November. ---------- "Techno-Hero or Public Enemy?" James Bidzos of RSA Data Security wants to go global with a potent shield against computer break-ins. Uncle Sam's most secretive spy agency wants to stop him. At stake is the right to privacy and the health of the U.S. software industry. ----- http://jya.com/fortun.txt (32 kb) FOR_tun

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Re: just what we #$%^&* needed from big brother....
by Adamsc＠io-online.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Mon, 04 Nov 96 19:15:39 +0000, attila(a)primenet.com wrote: >Welcome to 1984+ what else with useless and illegally constituted >bureaucrats add to their total infringement of every facet of our life. > >.NEW SYSTEM LINKS LENDERS, IRS >.information for the previous couple of years. If the cross-check turns up a >.more than $10,000 discrepancy between the earnings claimed on the application >.and those declared for tax purposes, the IRS has the option of pursuing the This isn't actually the end of the world. In fact we should be applauding their efforts to make their abominable system more efficient. Whether it should be scraped is another issue. In other words, as long as they are going to do it, they might as well do it right. # Chris Adams <adamsc(a)io-online.com> | http://www.io-online.com/adamsc/adamsc.htp # <cadams(a)acucobol.com> | send mail with subject "send PGPKEY" "That's our advantage at Microsoft; we set the standards and we can change them." --- Karen Hargrove, Microsoft (quoted in the Feb 1993 Unix Review editorial)

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Exon's Seat Lost
by Duncan Frissell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Exon's seat goes to Republicans (according to ABC). CDA probably not involved.

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Vilus
by amp＠pobox.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Many thanks for all who have kept the discussion of Vilus and censorship in the subject lines of the current threads. It greatly aids the elimination of much garbage (like this post). I won't even see this post. Apologies for all with less efficient filters. ------------------------ Name: amp E-mail: amp(a)pobox.com Date: 11/05/96 Time: 05:41:19 Visit http://www.public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum EARTH FIRST! We'll strip mine the other planets later. ------------------------

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WinSock Remailer Down
by Joey Grasty 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Y'all: Effective immediately, winsock(a)c2.org is down until I find a new home for it. The account expired today, so it is an opportune time to find a new location. It will probably end up at Cyberpass, as soon as I have time to read the User Agreement from Hell (tm). I expect to have it back up at a different location in less than a week. I'd like to thank Sameer at C2NET who has hosted the WinSock Remailer during its painful birth and childhood. I now need time to grow the remailer into adulthood (read Windows NT and 95), so that remailers can spread widely. Regards, Joey Grasty WinSock Remailer Operator -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQB1AwUBMoAY38ODO2V89BZZAQH2lAL+ITKvy9e8WB+66sQXwFqOatoV6SHYqY7Q mcWad9UE43bqnHA10YJiCKqe/vfhEbpNgh9hB5JIn9bVkiWCvIDtl8tIzkHyvo9q 2l6xwMx0pwaN4SmfPBkn/0FLagT6pvdp =L3Iq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- Joey Grasty jgrasty(a)gate.net [home -- encryption, privacy, RKBA and other hopeless causes] jgrasty(a)pts.mot.com [work -- designing pagers] "Anyone who considers arithmetical methods of producing random digits is, of course, in a state of sin." -- John Von Neumann PGP = A7 CC 31 E4 7E A3 36 13 93 F4 C9 06 89 51 F5 A7

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Vulis profile Vulis profile
by nobody＠replay.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I had some free time this morning, and just for fun, thought I'd create a brief Net profile of our friend Dr. Vulis. Here's what I found (sources included): Dimitri Vulis #4k Burns St, Forest Hills,NY 11375-3506 (718)261-6839 Source: http://www.yahoo.com (Four11 people search) Birthday: December 29 Source: http://www.boutell.com/birthday.cgi/december/29 D&M Consulting Services (DM-DOM) 67-67 Burns Street Forest Hills, NY 11375 Domain Name: DM.COM Administrative Contact: Administration, PSINet Domain (PDA4) psinet-domain-admin(a)PSI.COM (703) 904-4100 Technical Contact, Zone Contact: Network Information and Support Center (PSI-NISC) hostinfo(a)psi.com (518) 283-8860 Record last updated on 31-Oct-96. Record created on 19-Jun-91. Domain servers in listed order: NS.PSI.NET 192.33.4.10 NS2.PSI.NET 38.8.50.2 Source: InterNIC Q: Who is Dimitri Vulis? A: Dimitri is an XSoviet immigrant who is enrolled (or used to be enrolled) in CUNY, and who is a computer professional involved i.a. in unicode matters. The realspace Dimitri is a polite person and a devoted family head. It's cyberspace image is not nearly as nice, unfortunately. He harasses people all over the net with the most offensive sorts of messages, and uses dirty tricks to retaliate to the people who do get offended. Among his accomplished feats is a series of articles about cat-eating dogs posted to rec.pets.cats (which caused a wave of complaints and made him lost his CUNY account) ; a series of porno binaries with obscene comments about his opponents posted to math-related newsgroups (he lost another academic account, at fordham.edu, after this scandal); and a series of racist articles denigrating all aspects of romanian life and culture which used to haunt the romanian newsgroup for years. Of course most of his net.bile is spilled over his fellow XSoviets, particularly of Jewish origin (such as Michael Verbitsky, Boris Veytsman, Vlad Rutenberg or myself, as well as all Brighton Beach together); and a lot of stuff comes out from his alleged aliases in bwalk.dm.com, aol.com and fly.harvard.edu. Some of these aliases match the names of his opponents, as I already mentioned. Sometimes not only the names but also addresses match (although paths don't). Dimitri Vulis also advertises the capabilities of his site for forging and cancelling articles. Sometimes he shrewdly comments articles of his own saying : "This article is most certainly forged, after all I spent a lot of time teaching you how to forge... but I nevertheless like this article's content". Source: http://www.math.harvard.edu/~verbit/scs/cranks/from-Shlomo.html (much more there too) AUTHOR PROFILE: dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com (Dr. Dimitri Vulis) 510 articles posted between 1995/06/29 and 1996/11/02. 71 % followups. Number of articles posted to individual newsgroups (slightly skewed by cross-postings): 132 misc.jobs.misc 67 news.admin.net-abuse.misc 67 news.groups 40 mail.cypherpunks 32 nyc.food 18 soc.culture.russian 13 news.admin.misc 12 nyc.general 10 news.admin.censorship 9 news.admin.policy 8 alt.censorship 7 alt.usenet.kooks 7 soc.culture.pakistan 6 alt.revenge 5 comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy 5 soc.culture.soviet 4 alt.sex.plushies 4 sci.math 4 sci.physics 4 talk.politics.medicine 3 alt.folklore.computers 3 alt.security 3 comp.lang.ada 3 comp.security.misc 3 sci.crypt 2 alt.nocem.misc 2 alt.sci.physics.plutonium 2 aus.flame 2 comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy 2 comp.unix.advocacy 2 microsoft.public.netiquette 2 soc.culture.israel 1 alt.2600 1 alt.anonymous 1 alt.bible 1 alt.computer.consultants 1 alt.consumers.experiences 1 alt.fan.bill-gates 1 alt.fan.my-big-hairy-penis 1 alt.privacy 1 alt.shenanigans 1 alt.society.neutopia 1 aus.general 1 comp.ai 1 comp.mail.uucp 1 comp.os.ms-windows.nt.misc 1 comp.os.ms-windows.win95.setup 1 comp.sys.mac.advocacy 1 humanities.language.sanskrit 1 misc.entrepreneurs 1 misc.invest 1 news.newusers.questions 1 nj.misc 1 nyc.seminars 1 rec.humor 1 rec.motorcycles 1 sci.psychology.psychotherapy 1 soc.motss 1 tor.general Source: http://www.dejanews.com profile Dimitri Vulis: Contrib. post: whose obnoxious, derivative and not-very-funny Soviet emigre jokes from Brighton Beach were a weekly feature about a year ago on rec.humor . He ignored completely any requests to stop. Eventually he started getting flamed in demotic Russian-quite fun for those of us who could read it. - Dan "And to think he felt it important enough to waste his two hours of daily connect time on it" Case -- so what _is_ the deal with vulis? is "russian emigre" a codeword for "jew", or for "russian emigre", or for something else? (if i recall correctly, minor and now somewhat reformed net.loon mikhail zeleny claimed rather convincingly that vulis's posts contained certain tell-tale phrases which are highly un-idiomatic in english ("dandruff-covered" was one of them, i think) which were dead giveaways of classic pathological russian anti-semitism.) so is vulis russian? an emigre? a jew in some sense? self-hating? maybe a self-hating russian jewish emigre who hates only the jewish half of themself? or maybe they hate the russian half too? are they now or have they ever been, while residing in america, on the payroll of any branch of any soviet or russian government? did they stop posting russian emigre jokes when the paychecks stopped coming? are they a zhirinovsky supporter now? the most recent messages posted by vulis that i have seen seem designed mainly to convince people that both zhirinovsky and valery fabrikant are (russian?) jews. (it's very likely true in fabrikant's case, at least.) maybe vulis is a self-hating supporter of zhirinovsky and fabrikant? -- Posts on soc.culture.soviet, and is apparently something of an institution there; likes to stir things up, and to flame and/or troll people. I'm not up on which sides are good and/or bad on s.c.s, which among other things seems to have been ravaged by Serdar Argic for a long time as well, driving away many of the gentler posters. Is currently engaged in flamewar with Peter V. Vorobieff there. Posts from dlv(a)CUNYVMS1.GC.CUNY.EDU (Dimitri Vulis, CUNY GC Math). Source: http://www.math.uiuc.edu/~tskirvin/home/legends/legends3.html Dimitri Vulis's barcode font ftp: ctan: tex-archive/fonts/barcodes/barcodes.mf There is a mailing list, rustex-l, for discussion of typesetting Cyrilic-based languages. To subscribe, send mail to listserv(a)ubvm.bitnet containing the text SUBSCRIBE RUSTEX-L <your name here> or mail Dimitri Vulis, DLV%CUNYVMS1.BITNET(a)cunyvm.cuny.edu [or dlv(a)dm.com?] Source: http://wsspinfo.cern.ch/faq/fonts-faq/metafont-list Bar code fonts ymir.claremont.edu by Dimitri Vulis [anonymous.tex.mf] BibTeX eedsp.gatech.edu for MS-DOS v99 by J. Demel and Dimitri Vulis Source: http://www.clinet.fi/pd/doc/texts/TeX-FAQ-supplement_(part_2_of_3 ) (this FAQ is dated 10 May 93) Server The files of type para used in the index were: /u3/wais/mirror/cissites/cissites.txt A list of contacts for most known organizations in the former Soviet Union who either have or plan to have e-mail connections. Provided by the SUEARN-L list, SUEARN-L(a)UBVM.BITNET. Keywords: USSR, CIS, Russia, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Baltic, Moscow, Leningrad, Siberia. The original document is stored on impaqt.drexel.edu:/pub/suearn/misc/cissites.txt and is available for anonymous FTP. >From the front matter: * The Authoritative Soviet E-Mail Directory and Guide ** For more information, subscribe to the SUEARN-L mailing list, or send e-mail to Michael Meystel or Dimitri Vulis (c) 1992 All rights reserved This file contains contact information (correct name / address / phone / fax #... possibly e-mail address) for sites of interest in the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS). We occasionally get asked questions like 'What is the Russian name of IAS?' or 'What is the postal address of St. Petersburg State U's math faculty?' or 'What does IPPI stand for?'. Over the years I've collected a fairly complete electronic address book of addresses of Soviet sites where mathematical research is done, which I gladly share. Sergej Gelfand and Don Parsons have kindly contributed their address lists (respectively, more math and oncology). An even more complete version of such file, listing sites of possible interest to people in other fields, and freely available on the Internet, would be very useful to many. Please send additions, corrections, suggestions, etc to: CISMAP(a)DM.COM I can't acknowledge everything, but I will try to read every e-mail. Dimitri Vulis ) Source: http://www.elvis.ru/wais/c.html

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BUR_ke
by azur＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

December's Internet World contains a good article by futurist James Burke ('Connections', and 'The Day the Universe Changed') on the societal impact of the Net. He discusses the international legal challenge of the Net, privacy/anonymity, its effect on copyright and publishing, and worldwide intellectual growth. PGP Fingerprint: FE 90 1A 95 9D EA 8D 61 81 2E CC A9 A4 4A FB A9 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Snoop Daty Data | Internet: azur(a)netcom.com Grinder | Sacred Cow Meat Co. | --------------------------------------------------------------------- Hacker Opportunities (Let's Make Lots Of Money) I've got the brains, you've got the tricks Let's make lots of money You've got the code, I've got the hooks Let's make lots of ... I've had enough of scheming and messing `round with jerks My crypto code's compiled, I'm afraid it doesn't work I'm looking for a partner, someone who gets things fixed Ask yourself this question: do you want to be rich? I've got the hacks, you've got the keys Let's make lots of money You've got the code, I've got the hooks Let's make lots of money You can tell I'm educated, I studied at CalTech Doctored in mathematics, I could've been set I can program a computer, choose the perfect time If you've got the inclination, I have got the crime Ooooh, there's a lot of opportunities If you know when to take them, you know There's a lot of opportunities If there aren't, you can make them (Make or break them) I've got the brains, you've got the tricks Let's make lots of money Let's make lots of ... You can see I'm single-minded, I know what I could be How do you feel about it? Come, take a walk with me I'm looking for a partner regardless of expense Think about it seriously, you know it makes sense Let's (Got the brains) Make (Got the tricks) Let's make lots of money (Money) Let's (You've got the code) Make (I've got the hacks) Let's make lots of money (Money) I've got the brains (Got the hooks) You've got the code (Got the keys) Let's make lots of money (Money) Money!

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list noise: a novel suggestion
by Vladimir Z. Nuri 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I read rants about the list noise on this list so much that it seems quite comical. it seems that everything else has been tried, I thought I would suggest something radically different. I propose that no one talk about the noise on the list, on the list. pretend it doesn't exist. consider it like the weather: something that complaining about can do nothing about. the long history of this list proves that virtually, absolutely nothing can be done to improve the signal-to-noise ratio on the list. therefore, talking about it is a waste of time and only makes people excited and irritable. the only solution to the noise on the list is to unsubscribe. if you don't like the list as it stands, don't subscribe. the list is as it is, and historical precedent proves that it has its own personality and flow that can't be rerouted despite everyone's best intentions. the best solution to list noise is to post on subjects you want to read about. write things that you would like to read had you not written them. simply complaining about the list contents is like showing up at a potluck with empty hands and griping that there's nothing good to eat.

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"high noon on the electronic frontier"
by Vladimir Z. Nuri 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

a neat new book that's a collection of some of the more interesting essays on cyberspace called "high noon on the electronic frontier" is now in bookstores, and I highly recommend it. the editor Peter Ludlow has a good eye and aesthetic sense for exactly the more influential essays that have been written and are circulating. the list of authors/contributors is a real Who's Who in cyberspace: Barlow, Stallman, Kapor, Godwin, Denning, Zimmermann, Chaum, Rheingold, Sterling, etc. good articles by Dibbell, Levy, DeWitt, etc. but unfortunately Markoff is conspicuously absent. maybe he wanted too much money for his writing <g> TCMay is well represented with several essays in a section on "encryption, privacy, and crypto-anarchism". 3 essays, Crypto Anarchist Manifesto, Intro to Blacknet, and BlackNet worries. I was curious about TCMay's essay on Blacknet, though, that mentions a mysterious "X" who he credits as raising many of the issues surrounding Blacknet on the cpunk mailing list in Feb 1994. Ludlow states in a footnote TCMay "elided references to interlocutors". I wonder about the identity of the mysterious "X" and whether he/she is still posting to the list. does anyone know who he/she is? I was thinking it would be interesting to see whether he/she still feels the same about Blacknet and/or get a new conversation going about the subject with the insight that time can bring. I wonder why TCMay found it important to elide "X"'s identity-- perhaps "X" was one of his tentacles? (hee, hee) anyway I highly recommend this volume!! after reading this the public will get a far better idea about what cyberspace is about and what it means. a great coverage of all the key issues.

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Re: just what we #$%^&* needed from big brother....
by Adamsc＠io-online.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Wed, 6 Nov 1996 05:41:52 +0000 (GMT), attila wrote: >> >Welcome to 1984+ what else with useless and illegally constituted >> >bureaucrats add to their total infringement of every facet of our life. >> >.NEW SYSTEM LINKS LENDERS, IRS >> >.information for the previous couple of years. If the cross-check turns up a >> >.more than $10,000 discrepancy between the earnings claimed on the application >> >.and those declared for tax purposes, the IRS has the option of pursuing the >> >> This isn't actually the end of the world. In fact we should be applauding >> their efforts to make their abominable system more efficient. Whether it >> should be scraped is another issue. In other words, as long as they are >> going to do it, they might as well do it right. >> > my point is more towards: "...here goes another direct batch of > information directly into the federal computers --home location and > the link between real and 'imagined' income which immediately opens > the door for the IRS CID to start a tax-fraud investigation which > quickly leads to liens on your property, etc. while they audit the > living life out of you. just one more piece, a major one at that, in > the national databank ready to persecute you.... Yes. I was just trying to point out that as long as they are going to do something, it's refreshing to see that they do it right. Whether they should be doing it at all is an entirely different matter and I have little doubt that most of the list subscribers believe, as I do, that there should be some major reforms. Still, government incompetency is rather frustrating and helps inspire cynicism.s # Chris Adams <adamsc(a)io-online.com> | http://www.io-online.com/adamsc/adamsc.htp # <cadams(a)acucobol.com> | send mail with subject "send PGPKEY" "That's our advantage at Microsoft; we set the standards and we can change them." --- Karen Hargrove, Microsoft (quoted in the Feb 1993 Unix Review editorial)

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Re: Any Info for Sen. Pressler....
by stewarts＠ix.netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 12:57 PM 11/4/96 -0700, "Troy M. Barnhart" <barney(a)rapidnet.com> wrote: >If anyone has any specific bits of info on cryptography, etc... >please feel free to send it to me... >I live in South Dakota... >Due to circumstances I occasionally see and speak >w/ Senator Larry Pressler - (Committee Leader)... At this point, I think he's now Ex-Senator Pressler, if I saw the election returns I think I saw. # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk # Nov. 5 is Guy Fawkes Day - Vote Early and Often, and create Fireworks!

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Censorship in Western Australia
by stewarts＠ix.netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Headline: >> AUSTRALIA - CENSORS STRIKE AT INTERNET, LANS - Western Australia's State Government says it will seek to censor all computer transmissions of offensive material after its censorship act came into force last Friday. [Newsbytes, 67 words] Probably not as competent as Singapore at enforcement, but what do people know about it? # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk # Nov. 5 is Guy Fawkes Day - Vote Early and Often, and create Fireworks!

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Judge Kozinski responds to our responses
by Jim Ray 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com, jmr(a)shopmiami.com Date: Wed Nov 06 16:38:58 1996 Dear cypherpunks: Judge Alex Kozinski has mercifully (unless you consider _this_ noise, too) given me permission to post the following message. This will be my last posting signed by this key. I will now attempt to implement my new one, hopefully without denying myself access to Pronto at the same time. JMR ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To start with, we should probably thank the people who helped. Black Unicorn, Mike McNally, Declan McCullagh, Loren Rittle, Lynne L. Harrison, Tim May, Lucky Green, Greg Broiles, A. Michael Froomkin, and E. Allen Smith all had good thoughts to share, and I am probably leaving someone out. Oh well. Anyway, Judge Kozinski wrote: > Jim: Thanx for forwarding the various messages which I have > found eye-opening in many respects. It's take me a while to > review and digest it all and I find there are certainly many > aspects of the anonymity problem that I either was not > aware of or had not fully appreciated. Although I cannot > quite say I'm entirely persuaded on this issue, I think we > may be a lot closer. Rather than responding to individual > messages (several of which made related points) I will give > you my reaction to what I thought were the most important > points. > > 1. I agree entirely that you should be able to post > anonymously to a list-serv or discussion group. Anonymity > there may encourage people to express unpopular views, and > there is no offsetting fear that this will be viewed as an > invasion of privacy by anyone. We have a long tradition of > anonymous or pseudonymous political tracts (e.g. Federalist > Papers) and there is no reason not to continue this in the > electronic medium. Indeed, as suggested by one of the > messages you forwarded, there may be greater reason because > messages posted to discussion groups do get retained and > indexed for posterity. > > 2. I also agree that it should be possible to have mutually > agreed-upon anonymity--i.e. I write to you and you write to > me and we both know who we are, but nobody else does. No > problema--it's nobody else's business. > > 3. I still have some difficulty with direct mailing of > anonymous messages to individual mailboxes. Actually, having run a remailer and seen some abuse for a while, I do too. Respected cypherpunks are working hard on this right now. I think what we would all like to eventually see is a "default off" situation, with no mail (or at least the warning message I mentioned before as a first message to new recipients) rather than default-on. Unfortunately, e-mail is a default-on situation and so (for now) are anonymous remailer messages for first-time recipients, at this early stage in their evolution. I am confident that this situation will change in the future, as more sophisticated software is written. > The arguments > in favor if doing so are good but not airtight. Here are my > responses to the ones I thought were most compelling: > > a. You have anonymous snail-mail and telephone calls--why > not e-mail? The truth is, anonymous snail-mail and > telephone calls are also an invasion of privacy, but there > is not much we can do about them. Someone asked whether I > objected to getting anonymous snail mail if it was not > threatening. The answer is YES, just like getting an > anonymous phone call is objectionable. When the person who > communicates with you insists on retaining anonymity, there > is always an implicit threat--they know who you are, but you > don't--you feel vulnerable, you doubt their motives, you > have difficulty knowing whether to trust their > representations. Anonymous complaints against co-workers > and supervisors was a standard way to get people into big > trouble in Communist Romania when I was growing up. The thing is, I find many anonymous messages that I see on the list not too valuable initially, and the anonymous or pseudonymous poster, in order to build some "reputation-capital," has to stay around a while and post interesting stuff, like Black Unicorn or Lucky Green. This is, IMO, as it should be. There is an incredibly funny humorist lurking on the list, who posts the "cypherpunk enquirer" anonymously, and I can send you a few of those if you like. [The judge hasn't asked me to, yet. He doesn't know what he's missing. :) ] We certainly don't want the situation you were all-too familiar with growing up, but as a remailer-operator I find that I must take the bitter with the sweet, and I am fully ready to admit that about 1/3 of the messages that go through WinSock are abusive, judging by the stuff I see in the reject bin. That's one of the reasons Joey (the other operator, and the author of the WinSock Remailer software) and I went to PGP-encrypted messages only, we felt that abusers were less likely to learn and use PGP. > Now, the fact that we can't stop anonymous snail-mail and > telephone calls doesn't mean we shouldn't stop anonymous > e-mail if we think it's a bad thing. The fact that an evil > cannot be remedied in its entirety does not mean that we > should not remedy the part that we can. Perhaps the answer > is that the post office should not accept mail unless there > is a clear indication of who the sender is on the upper left > hand corner of the envelope. In any event, I find the > argument based on analogies to snail-mail and telephone not > entirely persuasive. I feel that the fact that an evil is this hard to remedy through traditional legal means suggests that a very hard look at technological means is in order. I hope that we can both agree that in many cases, technology can adapt to situations and problems faster and cheaper than law can. > b. You can't really ever prevent anonymity because people > can get e-mail accounts anonymously--paying for them in cash. > Arguments based on futility are always suspect. Sure, some > people will circumvent any laws or regulations, but that's > not a reason not to have laws. For one thing, most people > don't get anonymous accounts and don't know how to do so. True. > Even if you do get an anonymous account, you can be shut > down if you break the rules and then you'll have to go > somewhere else. This point, I believe, is actually in "my" side's favor. There are time costs to this kind of setup stuff that even the abusers may dislike, and abusers' names and methods tend to get put on lists that ISPs look at. I am sure that privacy providing ISPs look at these lists. > And maybe all this suggests is that we > ought to require e-mail providers to obtain id from their > patrons and require payment by check or credit card. I am > not suggesting these measures, mind you, but insofar as > futility is used as an argument against regulation, it can > equally well serve as an argument for MORE regulation. I agree that it's not our most powerful argument, but it is a consideration, because with futility comes high cost and disrespect for the law. Witness the failed drugwar and the lack of respect for the law it has engendered, even among government agencies. Often, this disrespect for the law comes with no legal or political cost to perpetrators (unless you count my ranting as a political cost). > c. People can use filters. Well, yes, maybe. But most > people don't know how to use filters. I consider myself > above-average in my e-mail sophistication, and I don't know > how to use filters. I could probably figure it out, but > most people who use aol or prodigy probably have no ability > to install a filter even if they knew how they worked. In > any event, I find it a little troublesome to put the burden > on the recipients to adopt a hi-tech solution. And who says > there aren't ways around most common filters--or such > ways won't be developed--which would put recipients in a > technology race with anonymous mailers? True, and the abusers already _are_ in a technology race with the remailer-operators, as I see just about every day on the remailer-operators list. I have serious doubts that yet-another law would either change or improve the situation. * * * > Anyway, thanx for a stimulating series of messages. I do > think we've made some progress. And we'll keep the channels > of communication open. The pleasure has been all mine, Judge Kozinski. JMR -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMoEFd21lp8bpvW01AQHR1AQAib06JhpWx06H6Pr25uuMUj6fQVXZIYfc KeUdP/QSSWQHfIwxs2SX1a++SCbnx6Ev//ninb7Q8F5kj56mk0yq0SE/ID91WgwJ iFEr+2V1oTf+JZISh68F/a/fPBrP8GL8rjUce+WYhiY704rlsNyr5L9UhtylkzNg GM5Ml/A7qjc= =tVan -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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No Subject
by Bovine Remailer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The arrival of warm weather is heralded by the pig shit (or whatever kind of shit Intel swines have for brains) getting soft in Timothy C[rook] May's mini-cranium and the resulting green slime seeping through key cocaine- and syphilis- damaged nose and onto his keyboard.

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FW: Now we have it all
by Butler, Scott 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> Abaddon wrote: >>susbscribe Surely we have seen it all now. I find it hard to believe that a word like suscribe....subsribe....subcribes.. SUBSCRIBE..is so difficult to spell correctly. :-) ScOtT

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Re: [rant] Re: Censorship on cypherpunks
by Duncan Frissell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 02:44 PM 11/5/96 -0800, Sean Roach wrote: >May I remind you that if you want to leave this country, all you have to do >is board a plane. Many people have suggested similar things about various >groups for about two centuries. The major difference between this list and >this government is that it is easier to start a new list. However since governments attempt to maintain a geographical monopoly and there are a very limited number of them, it is not possible to find another country you can enter as a matter of right so you may not be able to escape. In contrast there are millions of private organizations of various sorts (corporations, etc) and it is trivial to find one to join if you like. DCF

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Parents effectively lose their right
by kb4vwa＠juno.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Family Research Council Washington Watch News - October 25, 1996 - Vol. 8:1 "Parents effectively lose their right to direct the upbringing of their children when they drop them off at school, according to one federal court judge. Earlier this year, Judge Melinda Harmon, appointed by President Bush, ruled that Katy Independent School District in TX did not violate parents' rights by allowing Child Protective Services to interrogate a student without notifying his parents, nor by instructing him to lie to his parents about the incident."

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UNSUBCRIBE CENSORSHIP
by Pos Indonesia 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

UNSUBCRIBE CENSORSHIP

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SEC_ure
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

11-04-96. "Web security threat grows" With a variety of new technologies like stronger encryption, smart cards and digital signatures and envelopes emerging to tighten Web security, experts working on various aspects of the problem agree the goal of end-to-end security on the Web will remain elusive as long as insecure operating systems dominate the commercial market. "You can't build security on top of insecurity," said Netscape's Jim Roskind, who spent much of a session on Webware fending off criticism of Java security flaws. "We have to assume that the [security] problems will be pervasive forever," warned Peter Neumann. "This is a holistic problem, and we have to deal with it in a global way." "Protection sought for U.S. systems" The initiative will be led by the Pentagon's Computer Emergency Response Team at Carnegie Mellon University and the Energy Department's Computer Incident Advisory Capability. "Motorola unveils chip for contactless smart card" One chip designing a contactless card that meets all frequencies of a proposed standard while the other adds cryptography to a single-chip solution. The other card incorporates a 1,024-bit modular encryption processor that is reportedly one of the fastest in the industry. "U.S.Joint Venture to Market Acoustic Smart Card Technology" NeTegrity also announced it has invested $1 million in Encotone, Ltd., for a 10% equity interest in the Israeli company. Other Encotone, Ltd. investors include ECI Telecom, a $500 million Israeli telecommunications firm, and Professor Michal Ben Or, Head of the Department of Computer Science at Hebrew University of Jerusalem and a worldwide authority on cryptology. "Microchip Technology launches highly secure smart card family with KEELOQ code hopping technology" The SCS152 provides a programmable 64-bit cryptographic key used to create a digital signature unique to each card, which reduces the possibility of unwanted access to card information and the "cloning" of these cards for unauthorized payments. Other features include programmable user memory and "anti-tearing," which prevents the information in the card from being corrupted if the supply voltage is interrupted. "EEMA Lobbies Over Limiting US Encryption Controls" EEMA recognizes that the principal reasons for this is the disparate European legislation that surrounds the use of encryption, and the fact that inter-working with dominant US-based computer software -- operating system and application software -- is subject to US legislation and restrictions. "Putting EDI to the test" Security continues to be the main sticking point for using the Net as a vehicle for EDI. Vendors that will demonstrate secure E-mail messages transporting EDI documents over the Web. The technology used is S/MIME, an encrypted version of the popular MIME protocol. "V-One Secures New Clients" NSA runs the nation's code-breaking operations, and DISA is supposed to keep the nation's networks secure, so there is not much chance of finding out what they do with the software they have bought from V-One. ----- http://jya.com/secure.txt (28 kb) SEC_ure

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RE: Censorship in Western Australia
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 21:59:33 +1100 From: Irene Graham <rene(a)pobox.com> To: fight-censorship(a)vorlon.mit.edu Subject: Re: Australia drafts Net rating system On Mon, 4 Nov 1996 18:53:24 -0800 (PST), Declan McCullagh <declan(a)eff.org> wrote: >---------- Forwarded message ---------- [...] >http://www.smh.com.au/computers/news/961105-news03.html [...] >Under the code, which is being developed by the >Internet Industry Association of Australia (INTIAA), >content will be classified under the existing code used >by the Office of Film and Television Classification. >"R" or "X" rated material would have to be clearly >identified and provided only to registered subscribers. [...] The subject line of this thread is misleading, which is understandable given the content of the newspaper report. "Australia" is not drafting a Net rating system (yet anyway). I doubt INTIAA actually is either. INTIAA purports to be (i.e. wants to be) the "peak Internet industry body" in Australia. However their code *does not* have the support of much of the "industry". The present stage of the fight in Australia is, not against government censorship, but against "privatised" censorship. There is presently no Net content rating system based on the OFLC classifications, nor with any luck is there likely to be. The Australian Broadcasting Authority (ABA) in its July report on Net regulation was of the view that that system is unworkable for on-line content (which is correct) and proposed the development of a purpose-built classification system. Unfortunately it appears the director(s) of INTIAA have not read that report. The following extract from Electronic Frontiers Australia's response (of 22 Oct 96) to the ABA report tells the rest of the story about INTIAA and its code: "It appears that the ABA has been influenced by a particularly complicated proposed industry code of practice drafted by Patrick Fair of a Sydney corporation "The Internet Industry Association of Australia". That proposed code of conduct, released on the 10th September 1996, proposes a top-heavy industry body, drawing extensive levies from the Internet access providers in order to sustain a professional council as well-funded and well-staffed as a national professional body. INTIAA was established with board members representing hardware and software vendors, a national law firm and several large Internet access providers. Other members of the company include media and the Taxation Institute of Australia. It is fair comment that INTIAA represents a sector of the market with deep pockets and contacts in government, as indeed the Minister for the Communications and the Arts launched INTIAA on the 15th December 1995. The proposed code of practice makes use of the ABA's favoured PICS web page rating standard compulsory , creates an Administration Council with a government appointee as Chair and no direct voting by member service providers on changes to that Code. For those worried about censorship of the Net through the back door, the proposed Code places on service providers the obligation to block "X-rated" material as if it were child pornography. A further problem for service providers is the requirement that they report "illegal" sites to the authorities , report "RC" violations to other site administrators and delete users to enforce compliance with censorship. INTIAA's code of practice does not represent a consensus within the industry. There are State Internet Associations (WA Internet Association, South Australian Internet Association, ACT Internet Association) which do not subscribe to such a bureaucratic system and which instead are developing codes of practice which more fully fulfil industry aspirations and conform more fully to industry experience [...and...] make it quite clear that an Internet access provider cannot be held responsible for content not originating on his or her system under any circumstances. [...] The gloss and complexity of the INTIAA code by comparison has obviously promoted to the ABA the notion that the industry can self-fund a policing function as the government may direct." The INTIAA code is a threat to free speech on the Net (at least in Oz) equivalent to, and possibly worse than, government censorship. Regards Irene ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Irene Graham, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia. PGP key on h/page. The Net Censorship Dilemma: <http://www.pobox.com/~rene/liberty/> "A year from now you may wish you had started today." Karen Lamb. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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