December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Copyright violations
by varange＠crl.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

But software wants to be free! -- Cheers!

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How long do you want to live?
by All＠Internet.Users 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

HELLO IS ANYONE OUT THERE? HOW LONG DO YOU WANT TO LIVE? WHAT QUALITY OF LIFE? First, imagine this scene. Your daughter or son is on the phone with a 911 dispatcher. Why? You are lying on the floor in the kitchen, clutching your chest, panic stricken. You are 45 years old. In addition to fear, lots of things are racing through your mind. You want to see your children grow to adulthood. You want to travel. You want to enjoy life some more. Right now though, you don't know if tomorrow will come. FACT: According to the World Health Organization more than 12 million people die from heart attacks, strokes and other forms of cardiovascular disease. THESE DEATHS ARE LARGELY PREVENTABLE. FACT: In the U.S. there are 1500 heart attacks each day; 33% resulting in sudden and premature deaths. NO SECOND CHANCE!! FACT: Heart attacks and strokes are not diseases. They are caused by vitamin deficiencies. America's number one killer can be prevented by an optimum intake of essentials nutrients. FACT: A medical breakthrough has made an old dream of mankind come true. Heart attacks and other forms of cardiovascular disease can essentially become unknown during this generation and forthcoming generations. The division I am heading holds the rights to a patented, non prescription, non-surgical means to lower cholesterol, prevent and reverse heart disease. If you are interested in adding more life to your yearsnot just more years to your life, please call me at: 1-800-741-6240 and leave your name, address and phone number for more detailed information. I'd like to ensure you I am not looking for investors or salespeople. This may be one of the most important decisions of your life. Sincerely, Dr. George Tarryk, M.D. Internal Medicine Specialist 1-800-741-6240 Please Only Reply By Phone, Thank you.

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Re: denial of service and government rights
by lucifer＠dhp.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

This thread is probably already due for a change in the Subject line, but I'll leave it untouched for the moment. On 30 Nov 96 at 13:10, Black Unicorn wrote: > On Fri, 29 Nov 1996, Greg Broiles wrote: > [...] > > > I don't see any reason why this wouldn't be true for a > > computer. Fed.Rul.Crim.Pro. 41(b)(1) allows the seizure > > (but seizure is not forfeiture) of "property that > > constitutes evidence of the commission of a > > criminal offense". > > It is true of computers. > Take the case of Ripco (the Chicago BBS raided in the > SunDevil raids back when). > > I don't think "Dr. Ripco" has yet gotten his equipment > back. I don't know for sure, but what I do know is > that 5 years after the raid, he still had certainly > not gotten anything back. [....] > Recall also that Ripco was never specifically charged > (or the minor charges that they did try to pin didn't > stick). > > Also recall that Ripco (now ripco.com) was raided with a > -sealed- warrant. I dont think that the contents of that > warrant have, even today, been released (though I could > be mistaken). Certainly 5 years after they had not. [....] > > But there's a big difference between "seizure" and > > "forfeiture". > > I'd argue with computer hardware it is a distinction > without a difference. Seizing computer hardware (like > Ripco's stuff) for in excess of 5 years is tantamount > to forfeiture given depreciation and so forth. > > Add to this the very liberal rules about how long the > feds can take to even CHARGE you with a crime after > seizure.... And it sums to a very bleak picture, indeed. [....] > > So yes, there may be a statute which gives title to > > the government in computers used to commit crimes, > > and no, the Supreme Court won't necessarily care > > about an "innocent owner". > > Again, I would argue that such a statute needn't even > exist given the rules already well estlablished and > demonstrated in action with regard to indefinate > seizure of computer hardware even in the absence of > criminal claims against the owner. Please forgive my naivete, but are there no legal weapons available to the 'victims' in such cases? I'm passingly familiar with the Operation Sundevil fiasco -- i.e., with the outcome re the principal 'charges'. I'm appalled, however, at the apparent lack of remedies for return of such seized property. Are individuals who find themselves in such a predicament simply at the government's mercy (there's an oxymoron for ya)?? Tired Fighter

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Re: denial of service and government rights
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Mail Delivery Subsystem wrote: > ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- > <Tired.Fighter(a)dhp.com> (unrecoverable error) > 550 <Tired.Fighter(a)dhp.com>... User unknown > ----- Original message follows ----- > Tired.Fighter(a)dhp.com wrote: > > On 30 Nov 96 at 13:10, Black Unicorn wrote: > > > On Fri, 29 Nov 1996, Greg Broiles wrote: > > > > I don't see any reason why this wouldn't be true for a > > > > computer. Fed.Rul.Crim.Pro. 41(b)(1) allows the seizure > > > > (but seizure is not forfeiture) of "property that > > > > constitutes evidence of the commission of a > > > > criminal offense". > > [snip] > > > Please forgive my naivete, but are there no legal > > weapons available to the 'victims' in such cases? > > I'm passingly familiar with the Operation Sundevil > > fiasco -- i.e., with the outcome re the principal > > 'charges'. I'm appalled, however, at the apparent > > lack of remedies for return of such seized property. > > Are individuals who find themselves in such a > > predicament simply at the government's mercy (there's > > an oxymoron for ya)?? > > Just in case someone replies saying "It's not all that bad", or "It can't > happen here", etc., you should know this: > > The United States government has not been responsive to the people for > a long time, but what's become evident in recent years is that they're > also no longer responsive to basic law and order. > > They do respond to extreme pressure, as was applied in the Weaver, Waco, > and other similar cases, but, as a general rule, they do whatever they > want all the way to the top of the Justice dept. with impunity. > > Example: George Bush's old pal at the Wash. DC P.R. firm hires the > niece(?) of a Kuwaiti official to testify in front of Congress in full > view of the American people on television, that the Iraquis were throwing > babies out of incubators in Kuwait, thereby securing the necessary votes > in Congress to prosecute the Gulf War. > > When it was discovered (after the "war") that the Incubator Baby Scandal > was a lie, nobody was prosecuted. Further, in blatant violation of the > U.S. Constitution, Bush and Schwartzkopf were knighted by Queen Elizabeth > II of England. > > There are also numerous examples of the Justice dept. being caught red- > handed forging documents to frame people for whom they had no evidence or > insufficient evidence to prosecute, and what happens in those cases? > Nothing.

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Re: Building a DC-NET
by Gary Howland 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dimitri writes: > > Black Unicorn <unicorn(a)schloss.li> writes: > > > On Sat, 30 Nov 1996, Simon Spero wrote: > > > > > (what's the Alice/Bob name for someone trying a denial of service attack?) > > > > Louis? > > John the petty small-time bitch? How about William? (Can't use Bill, since 'B' is taken). Could refer to Clinton (since he denies services to Cuba etc.), or to Gates (the creator of 'denial of service', aka. DOS). Gary

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ubject
by Gary Howland 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Swastikas halt Corel sales By Reuters November 25, 1996, 12 p.m. PT MUNICH, Germany--Corel (COSFF) software company has temporarily halted sales of its top-selling Corel Draw graphics program in Germany because it includes four banned Nazi symbols, a company spokesman said today. The Canadian company will remove three drawings of Adolf Hitler and one swastika from future versions of its popular software, spokesman Thomas Layer said. It is also distributing warning labels to be placed on versions now being sold, Layer said. The label warns that the "improper use of digital images and symbols" found in the programs Corel Draw 4.0, 5.0, and 6.0 is prohibited in Germany, which bans public displays of Nazi symbols. Munich's state prosecutor launched an investigation into the software on October 2 after learning that someone had used the banned images to print business cards for a neo-Nazi group, Layer said. This is not the first time that the company has had complaints due to their clip art images. In 1992, pressure from US Black rights organisations forced drawings of the Ku Kux Klan to be removed from the collection. Consideration is also being given to the removal of other images from the collection, either due to legal restrictions in various countries, or due to complaints from organisations such as the Simon Wiesenthal Center. Images considered for removal include a burning US flag, Josef Stalin, the Star of David icon, a cannabis leaf, and a drawing of a woman in a bathing costume. Corel Draw provides more than 24,000 clip art drawings and symbols that computer users can copy. The company suspended the sales on November 19.

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COREL TO CENSOR ALL CLIP ART WORLDWIDE
by nobody＠cypherpunks.ca 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Swastikas halt Corel sales By Reuters November 25, 1996, 12 p.m. PT MUNICH, Germany--Corel (COSFF) software company has temporarily halted sales of its top-selling Corel Draw graphics program in Germany because it includes four banned Nazi symbols, a company spokesman said today. The Canadian company will remove three drawings of Adolf Hitler and one swastika from future versions of its popular software, spokesman Thomas Layer said. It is also distributing warning labels to be placed on versions now being sold, Layer said. The label warns that the "improper use of digital images and symbols" found in the programs Corel Draw 4.0, 5.0, and 6.0 is prohibited in Germany, which bans public displays of Nazi symbols. Munich's state prosecutor launched an investigation into the software on October 2 after learning that someone had used the banned images to print business cards for a neo-Nazi group, Layer said. This is not the first time that the company has had complaints due to their clip art images. In 1992, pressure from US Black rights organisations forced drawings of the Ku Kux Klan to be removed from the collection. Consideration is also being given to the removal of other images from the collection, either due to legal restrictions in various countries, or due to complaints from organisations such as the Simon Wiesenthal Center. Images considered for removal include a burning US flag, Josef Stalin, the Star of David icon, a cannabis leaf, and a drawing of a woman in a bathing costume. Corel Draw provides more than 24,000 clip art drawings and symbols that computer users can copy. The company suspended the sales on November 19.

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COREL TO CENSOR ALL CLIP ART WORLDWIDE
by nobody＠cypherpunks.ca 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Swastikas halt Corel sales By Reuters November 25, 1996, 12 p.m. PT MUNICH, Germany--Corel (COSFF) software company has temporarily halted sales of its top-selling Corel Draw graphics program in Germany because it includes four banned Nazi symbols, a company spokesman said today. The Canadian company will remove three drawings of Adolf Hitler and one swastika from future versions of its popular software, spokesman Thomas Layer said. It is also distributing warning labels to be placed on versions now being sold, Layer said. The label warns that the "improper use of digital images and symbols" found in the programs Corel Draw 4.0, 5.0, and 6.0 is prohibited in Germany, which bans public displays of Nazi symbols. Munich's state prosecutor launched an investigation into the software on October 2 after learning that someone had used the banned images to print business cards for a neo-Nazi group, Layer said. This is not the first time that the company has had complaints due to their clip art images. In 1992, pressure from US Black rights organisations forced drawings of the Ku Kux Klan to be removed from the collection. Consideration is also being given to the removal of other images from the collection, either due to legal restrictions in various countries, or due to complaints from organisations such as the Simon Wiesenthal Center. Images considered for removal include a burning US flag, Josef Stalin, the Star of David icon, a cannabis leaf, and a drawing of a woman in a bathing costume. Corel Draw provides more than 24,000 clip art drawings and symbols that computer users can copy. The company suspended the sales on November 19.

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Ping!
by cypherpunks＠count04.mry.scruznet.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--------

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Ping! ((chain=(anon);1;(replay)))
by cypherpunks＠count04.mry.scruznet.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-------- ping 5

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Ping! ((chain=(anon);1;(replay)))
by cypherpunks＠count04.mry.scruznet.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-------- ping 5

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A quick discussion of Mersenne Numbers
by Scottauge＠aol.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I wake of the latest find announcement, some people maybe wondering what the heck is this?!! A mercenne number is of the type: M(p) = 2**p -1 results in a prime when p is a prime. Hopefully this will lead the way to see the pattern of prime numbers and being able to compute prime numbers in a far more efficient manner (after all a function that when given a prime number results in a prime number would be quite a kicker now wouldn't it!) The other Mersenne primes include: 2,3,5,7,13,17,19,31,127,61,89, and 107. The numbers 67 and 257 are not primes.... Have fun in them prime number databases....

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Another problem with IPG algorithm
by ichudov＠algebra.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Don and others, At the heart of IPG algorithm there is a pseudo-random number generator which generates values of A(JV). (see http://www.netprivacy.com/algo.html) DO JV=JV+1 IF JV=53 THEN JV=0 A(JV)=(A(JV)+B(JV)) MOD C(JV) UNTIL A(JV)<16384 Note that if B(JV) and C(JV) in a triplet (A(JV), B(JV), C(JV)) are not mutually prime, they will generate very few numbers and not a whole set 0-16383. For example, if C(JV) is 20000, and B(JV) is 10000, and initial A is (for example) 57, the only two numbers that this triplet will generate will be 57 and 10057. This refutes Don Wood's claim that the distribution of results approaches even. Even if only ONE triplet is such as I described (and it is VERY likely to happen statistically), the distribution will be skewed. Don, what do you think about it? igor

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Re: denial of service and government rights
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 09:25 PM 11/30/96 -0500, Tired.Fighter(a)dhp.com wrote: >On 30 Nov 96 at 13:10, Black Unicorn wrote: > >> On Fri, 29 Nov 1996, Greg Broiles wrote: > >> [...] >> >> > I don't see any reason why this wouldn't be true for a >> > computer. Fed.Rul.Crim.Pro. 41(b)(1) allows the seizure >> > (but seizure is not forfeiture) of "property that >> > constitutes evidence of the commission of a >> > criminal offense". >> >> It is true of computers. >> Take the case of Ripco (the Chicago BBS raided in the >> SunDevil raids back when). >> >> I don't think "Dr. Ripco" has yet gotten his equipment >> back. I don't know for sure, but what I do know is >> that 5 years after the raid, he still had certainly >> not gotten anything back. Unicorn has a long history of reciting government abuses, but then failing to provide any sort of answer to them. My solution (AP: "Assassination Politics") would make such abuse fatal. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Re: denial of service and government rights
by Greg Broiles 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 05:24 PM 12/1/96 -0800, Dale Thorn wrote: >So what you're saying is I (or we) can testify in front of Congress on >essentially any topic, telling a blatant lie (that we know is false, and >which they will subsequently prove is false), and totally get away with >it. You and I can do that, is that what you're saying? This is idiotic. I suspect it's deliberately idiotic, but I can't see what anyone gains by it. If you've got a point to make, would you please just say what you're thinking and move on? There's a big difference between something being punishable and someone being punished. The false testimony was given on behalf of a friendly government, and in favor of a cause which met with widespread national support and was the focus of much (literal) flag-waving and patriotic speechifying. In general, you face very few risks if you lie in a way which helps a very popular cause, and the people you're lying to want to do the thing that your lies are purportedly justifying. Your risks are much greater if you're saying something unpopular or if you are an unpopular person. I'm not talking about law, I'm talking about politics. And the fact that laws are sometimes enforced in a political matter shouldn't be news to anyone. (I'm not saying that's good, but I think it's attributable to and a result of to the general fallibility of human beings, myself included, so I'm skeptical about easy answers. Real-world solutions tend to fall short of theoretical perfection. Doh.) >If that is true, then my original contention that things are far worse >than the person I originally responded to was imagining, stands as >correct. Things are bad indeed. I'd sure appreciate it if you'd just say what you're thinking (if it's on-topic) instead of playing stupid "Is X true? Is Y true? Wow! I've just discovered something new!" games. Your comments suggest to me that what you're dancing around is, essentially, that the government is morally wrong because it (eliding distinctions between governments and branches of governments) enforces laws in an erratic or discriminatory or political fashion. That's what I'm extracting from your messages. If there's something more to what you're saying, I think I'd have a better chance of extracting it if you devoted less energy to tricky rhetorical strategies. -- Greg Broiles | US crypto export control policy in a nutshell: gbroiles(a)netbox.com | http://www.io.com/~gbroiles | Export jobs, not crypto. |

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Phrack, where can i find it?
by nobody＠cypherpunks.ca 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

where can i find latest (and old) phrack issues?

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RSA key generation in 13 lines of Perl
by Steve Reid 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- I've completed my Perl/dc RSA key generation program. The compacted 13-line version is below. A commented version can be found at http://www.edmweb.com/steve/rsagen.txt #!/usr/local/bin/perl $k=768;$e=sprintf'%X',65537;print"Please enter a LOT of random junk.\n" ;$a=<STDIN>;print"Working. This may take a while.\n";for(1..(length($a)- 1)){$b[$_&31]^=unpack('C',substr($a,$_,1));$b[$_&31]=(($b[$_&31]<<5)|($b [$_&31]>>3))&255;}for(0..255){$c[$_]=$_;}$a=$d=$f=0;for(0..255){$a=($a+ $c[$_]+$b[$a&31])&255;($c[$_],$c[$a])=($c[$a],$c[$_]);}open(F,'|dc'); select F;print"16dio[$e+]sa";for(1..50){for(1..$k/32){printf'%02X',&g;} print"Sr";}for(1,2){printf'%02X',&g|128;for(2..$k/16){printf'%02X',&g;} print"d$e%-2+d2%0=aSP";}print"[d2%SA2/d0<X+d*LA1=ZlP%0]sX[lR*]sZ[1+Q]sQ[ la1+sa0sc]sA[lAxlb1+sb]sB[ld1+sdLrddSssR1lP1-2/lXx+1+lP%99scd0=A2=Bclcla +32>C]sC[LsSrld1-dsd0<D]sD[le1+se0ddsasbsdlCxlDxlP2 $e*+sPlc99=Elb32=ElP 2 $e*-led1>QQ]sE_1selExsq_1seLPlExsp[p=]Plpp[q=]Plqp[n=]P*p[e=]P$e p1-lp 1-lq1-**1+$e/[d=]Pp\n";close(F);sub g{$d=($d+1)&255;$f=($f+$c[$d])&255;( $c[$d],$c[$f])=($c[$f],$c[$d]);return($c[($c[$d]+$c[$f])&255]);} I'm sure this can be compacted further. I haven't put a lot of work into compacting it; I really just want to get it out. Run the program, type in a LOT of random gibberish (several lines at least) and press enter. Then wait. Eventually it will output your p, q, n, e and d in hexadecimal. p and q: Prime numbers, congruent to 2 mod e. They can usually be discarded, but they should never be revealed. n: Your public modulus e: Your public encryption exponent (usually 10001 hex) d: Your private decryption exponent By default the program generates a 768-bit public modulus and a public exponent of 10001 hex (65537 decimal). These can be changed by adjusting the numbers in the first line. A 1024-bit modulus would be better, but for some reason generation takes a LOT longer than a 768-bit modulus. Fortunately key generation doesn't need to be done very often. Timings on a 100 MHz Pentium running FreeBSD: Size of n Time 512-bit: 4-5 minutes 768-bit: 8-9 minutes 1024-bit: 35-80 minutes (ack!) I've had some difficulty generating 1024-bit keys, but it seems to be working now. Let me know if you see any problems generating large keys other than the obvious problem with the time spent. Disclaimer: This program seems to work, but your milage may vary. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBMqID5dtVWdufMXJpAQE14AgApqOI2MMPe0V74cKI0vc3bDw8hfDW723c QKqVleH0MTIv4F792bf7ItekM81RbQiaB+AhSigFFFb679ZgdCV7XpPOwhkE3SD4 vJy1xU4HdZ6TbSrfzzZn8Peqd5K5zZdY7CpXbxW30TZWFNX5lqdDAAbvM77h36QC h/jwK1nWMzrTDupbhBwemkpZKaFmk5uAms5Y94Ckezh66+sOcWmvf7smyn8RJg4q zad6OVrclso22NBp/Pa0nf2+IdgFnhEfHgHxsI0t+awSokfr6WlZ8WAScxv40kJO KfcdBX1DXg4spl8kXgoQOrrA3VIUJKWXFfpnTt2nAKr/P4XfbpyFQw== =CY5F -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Secure Memory Deletion
by Mark Rosen 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Does anyone know any papers on secure deletion of things from memory? That is one thing that most people are oblivious to, though, if a program leaves your unencrypted passkey laying in memory or a buffer of your plaintext, then all the encryption in the world won't help. Should I overwrite the 32 times specified for hard drives, or are RAM chips easier to clear? Thanks.

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No Subject
by vitamin＠best.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I apologize if this is off topic. I received free one month trial in July from Netcom and in mid July I canceled my account with Netcom due to lousy customer service. When I called I was treated rudely because of canceling netcom. I called again the next day and the person who answered the phone apologized me for the behaviour of the previous employee and I was told my account will be canceled. Low and behold come July I got my credit card statement and netcom had billed me. I promtly called them and was assured that my account would be cancelled. Come September I was billed again for August and September. Once again I called and she assured me it would be cancelled. Again, it was not. Come October they still billed me. In my November statement they are still billing me. I prefer L.A. Better Business Bureau and District Attorney emails and physical addresses. Someone please help me!!!!! Thank You

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Re: Strong-crypto smart cards in Singapore and Germany
by pgut001＠cs.auckland.ac.nz 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

whgiii(a)amaranth.com ("William H. Geiger III") writes: ><sigh> Big Brother comming to a bank near you. > >Does anyone understand the implications of a society moving to an >electroinc cash based system?? > >All trasactions will be recorded, moitored, tracked & analysed. This is >not just the government that one has to worry about but corporations also. Actually the German system contains some fairly elaborate safeguards to make it pretty challenging to automatically track transactions (Germans have historical reasons for being uneasy about government monitoring). However given other German laws like the Fernmeldeanlagenueberwachungsverordnung (yes, that's one word), which make the CALEA look like a picnic, I'm not sure how long these safeguards will remain in place. Given that the standard has been created by a collaboration of all German banks, who are big enough to tell the government to take a hike if they demand access to the data, it may be safe (certainly the people involved in the project that I've spoken to are confident that they can keep the data private, however I'm not so sure how it'll work out in the long run). As for the Singapore solution, the Singpore government knows whats best for you, so it isn't any of your business to question their judgement. Anyone thinking otherwise gets 25 strokes of the rattan. Peter.

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Re: Phrack, where can i find it?
by Lyghte 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>where can i find latest (and old) phrack issues? > You can browse the old ones online at the phrack homepage (http://freeside.com/phrack.html) _\ /_ / \ __ ___ __ | \ / | _ |_| | |_ THE |__ | |__| | | | |__ "It may roundly be asserted that human ingenuity cannot concoct a cipher which human ingenuity cannot resolve." Edgar Allan Poe

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pseudonymous servers
by Bovine Remailer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Which pseudonymous servers are currently active?

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Re: A quick discussion of Mersenne Numbers
by Scottauge＠aol.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In a message dated 96-12-01 16:17:01 EST, you write: > On Sun, 1 Dec 1996 Scottauge(a)aol.com wrote: > > > I wake of the latest find announcement, some people maybe wondering what > the > > heck is this?!! > > > > A mercenne number is of the type: > > > > M(p) = 2**p -1 results in a prime when p is a prime. > > > > Hopefully this will lead the way to see the pattern of prime numbers and > > being able to compute prime numbers in a far more efficient manner (after > all > > a function that when given a prime number results in a prime number would > be > > quite a kicker now wouldn't it!) > > It doesn't. If q is a Mercenne prime, then p is prime if q = 2^p-1. It > doesn't work the other way around. If it did, then it would be very easy to > find out if a number is a Mercenne prime: just add 1 and find the base 2 > logarithm and if the result is prime, then the original number is prime. It' > s > much more difficult than that. It would also be possible to find an > infinite > number of Mercenne primes using a deterministic algorithm. > > > Mark I agree, my discussion was toooooo quick and the statement: > > M(p) = 2**p -1 results in a prime when p is a prime. is misleading. I was thinking the second paragraph when I was writing the statement statement above. A case of the mind working faster than the fingers?

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Re: denial of service and government rights
by Lucky Green 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 05:24 PM 12/1/96 -0800, Dale Thorn wrote: >So what you're saying is I (or we) can testify in front of Congress on >essentially any topic, telling a blatant lie (that we know is false, and >which they will subsequently prove is false), and totally get away with >it. You and I can do that, is that what you're saying? You and I can't. The government can. It is one thing to commit a crime (if a crime has even been committed in the case in question). It is another thing to find somebody willing to prosecute it. In today's day and age, the Constitution exists for historical purposes only. Much of it has long been abolished by the courts. The remainder is being mostly ignored. The "Kein Kläger, kein Richter" principle makes it irrelevant if doing so is illegal. A favorite saying of 2nd Amendment supporters is: "Which part of 'shall not be infringed' don't you understand?" If society doesn't care that the Constitution is being violated, the violations will continue. And society couldn't care less. -- Lucky Green <mailto:shamrock@netcom.com> PGP encrypted mail preferred Make your mark in the history of mathematics. Use the spare cycles of your PC/PPC/UNIX box to help find a new prime. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/justforfun/prime.htm

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RE: Secure Memory Deletion
by John Fricker 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Seems to me that the chip itself hardly a worry. memset() does the trick for the memory locations you are aware of. Any electrical or molecular level residues would be terribly difficult to sort out. The OS provides ample opportunities for unknowns though. ie, Is there some structure in memory that has the data from the user interface object used to collect the passphrase? Is there a keyboard buffer storing the last several (dozen? hundred?) keystrokes? Can 100% security be achieved at all with our current OS's? >Mark Rosen (mrosen(a)peganet.com) said something about Secure Memory Deletion on or about 12/1/96 4:49 PM > Does anyone know any papers on secure deletion of things from >memory? That >is one thing that most people are oblivious to, though, if a program leaves >your unencrypted passkey laying in memory or a buffer of your plaintext, >then all the encryption in the world won't help. Should I overwrite the 32 >times specified for hard drives, or are RAM chips easier to clear? Thanks. > >End of message --j ----------------------------------- | John Fricker (jfricker(a)vertexgroup.com) | -random notes- | My PGP public key is available by sending me mail with subject "send pgp key". | www.Program.com is a good programmer web site. -----------------------------------

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