December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

British export restrictions?
by John Lehmann 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Anyone know how the British govt. falls on crypto export legislation? -- John Lehmann

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Hash functions
by Mixmaster 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timothy C[reep] Maya is the living proof that anal sex causes pregnancy. () \--o .-\__. ( \_ '-.-'

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Mondex
by Mixmaster 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timmy C. Maypole's aberrant sexual life has negatively impacted his mental integrity. \|/ @ @ -oOO-(_)-OOo- Timmy C. Maypole

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Re: "alt.cypherpunks" people?
by Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Rabid Wombat <wombat(a)mcfeely.bsfs.org> writes: > > > On Wed, 5 Feb 1997, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: > > > Anil Das <das(a)sgi.com> writes: > > > > > Adam Back wrote: > > > > > > > > What do people think of starting an alt.cypherpunks USENET newsgroup? > > > > > > > > > > I have only one objection. I will never post to an Usenet group > > > under my real email address for fear of ending up in spammer > > > databases. > > > > > > -- > > > Anil Das > > > > > > > Learn to use an anonymous remailer. > > > > Unfortunately, if everyone is posting from "nobody@thevoid" or such, we'd > lose the "personalities" that make up the community. Why not use a "nym" > account to post - one that is configured to discard all incoming email? > > -r.w. Post as "nobody(a)nowhere.net", but mention e-mail address for replies in the body of the article (or the signature). --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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Re: Getting into MIT is impossible
by Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Sandy the asshole continues to forward crypto-irrelevant fluff to the censored list as long as it's posted by his boyfriends: "P.J. Westerhof" <p.j.wester(a)NGI.NL> writes: > At 18:12 4-02-97 -0800, you wrote: > >Erland van Lidth de Jeude is a MIT grad. He played the big badass in "Stir > >Crazy." Computer science major, BTW. > > > He is quite a singer too (at least he was some years ago on Dutch TV). > Perhaps that made the difference. ;-) > > Gr. > Peter > > > _________________________________________________________ > > P.J. Westerhof LL.D > e-mail P.J.WESTER(a)NGI.NL | Computerlaw > voice +31-347-375400 | Legal informatics > fax/data +31-347-375400 | IT - consultancy > Web: www.ngi.nl/cr/ | Soaring > _________________________________________________________ > > --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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Re: mail-to-news fun
by Andy Dustman 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Wed, 5 Feb 1997 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com wrote: > Alt.anonymous.messages is an interesting alternative, but one of the > ideals of posting news from a remailer is to allow people to > broadcast politically incorrect speech anonymously, avoiding censorship > and retribution as much as possible. This means letting people > call Lee Kwan Yew a fascist, complain that OJ's a space alien, > identify the person Hillary paid to off Vince Foster, > or proclaim that Hubbard's Ahmaddiyya Witnesses are the One True > Religion -- Or post the One Page RSA+RC4 to the China newsgroups. Hey, I agree. I allowed unlimited USENET posting from dustbin back in October. I almost had to shut the whole remailer down and the only reason I didn't was that I was able to hide it as a middleman. That's partly because dickwads were (for example) posting spams about Tim May on cypherpunks, and some people were complaining to my ISP. > On several other hands, though, even if you limit news posting, > trolls can abuse a remailer by sending email to large mailing lists. > It'd certainly never happen to Cypherpunks :-), but some other > mailing lists might attract trolls, and it's not easy to > identify them in advance (though I suppose adding a disclaimer > and cutmarks any time you post to something other than a > known remailer is a partial solution.) I'm working (slowly, as I have time) on some new remailer software which blocks by default and notifies the recipient that he can claim his anonymous mail as soon as he "signs" the usage agreement (magic cookie exchange). -- Andy Dustman / Computational Center for Molecular Structure and Design / UGA You can have my PGP public key by sending mail with subject "send file key". You can have my PGP secret key when you pry it out of my cold, dead neurons. http://charon.chem.uga.edu/~andy mailto:andy@CCMSD.chem.uga.edu <}+++<

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Re: mail-to-news fun
by stewarts＠ix.netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>> Well, I'd really rather not do that. I already have to deal with >> abuse from nym.alias.net and mix(a)anon.lcs.mit.edu users. >All that being said, it might not be worth the effort to allow posting, >since you're not actually doing the posting anyway. I've thought about >allowing posting again with a very restrictive newsgroup list >(only alt.anonymous.messages). If I were going to restart a remailer, and to offer news posting, I'd probably limit it to posting to moderated newsgroups only, so a human can trash things that look like SPAM or abuse; the abuse that caused me to kill my remailer wasn't something a simple filter would catch. (I'd also prefix each posting with a header about this message having been received from an anonymous source, not verified, not guaranteed to be worth the electrons it's printed on, probably not written by anybody whose name's at the bottom, etc.... People don't read mail headers or disclaimers at the bottom, and putting disclaimers like that into message text for email exposes the message to traffic analysis.) Alt.anonymous.messages is an interesting alternative, but one of the ideals of posting news from a remailer is to allow people to broadcast politically incorrect speech anonymously, avoiding censorship and retribution as much as possible. This means letting people call Lee Kwan Yew a fascist, complain that OJ's a space alien, identify the person Hillary paid to off Vince Foster, or proclaim that Hubbard's Ahmaddiyya Witnesses are the One True Religion -- Or post the One Page RSA+RC4 to the China newsgroups. On the other hand, I don't want to support postings titled "ALL FAGS MUST DIE" with a forged signature and email at the bottom, and I especially don't want to post that from my remailer without indicating that anything posted by a remailer might be forged. That's why I shut down my previous remailer - the forger only posted one forged message; the person whose name got forged got flamed severely by dozens of people who objected to "her" posts. Blocking the gay newsgroups cuts down on that kind of trolling, but also cuts out the "Help, I might be gay and my parents will kill me" traffic that remailers are supposed to help with. On several other hands, though, even if you limit news posting, trolls can abuse a remailer by sending email to large mailing lists. It'd certainly never happen to Cypherpunks :-), but some other mailing lists might attract trolls, and it's not easy to identify them in advance (though I suppose adding a disclaimer and cutmarks any time you post to something other than a known remailer is a partial solution.) # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp # (If this is a mailing list, please Cc: me on replies. Thanks.)

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Re: Cypherpunks FOIA request
by Greg Broiles 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 08:22 AM 2/5/97 -0800, Peter Hendrickson wrote: >At 12:40 AM 2/5/1997, Greg Broiles wrote: >> To date, I have received three responses: one from the SF office of the FBI, >> indicating that they have no records responsive to my request; one from the >> NSA, indicating that they are processing my request, and one from the Secret >> Service, asking for a copy of my signature. (I've got no clue why they want >> that; unless I screwed up, I believe my initial request was signed.) > >Have these organizations been known to lie? What penalties does >the organization or its employees face when they do so? Have these >penalties ever been applied? Yes, various law enforcement agencies and intelligence agencies have been willing to lie to the American public (and the world at large) from time to time :) Pragmatically, the only penalty that the organization(s) and individuals face is political, e.g., cuts in funding or loss of employment due to public humiliation/embarrassment. >Also, which exceptions in the FOIA law would allow them to respond >dishonestly? They are allowed to respond that "no records exist" even if records do exist, where: (1) The records relate to an active criminal investigation, the subject of the investigation is unaware of the investigation, and the disclosure of the existence of records would likely disrupt law enforcement activity; (5 USC 552 (c)(1)) (2) The records relate to a confidential informant, and the disclosure of the existence of the records would tend to reveal the identity of the informant (e.g., I suspect Joe Blow is an informant, so I make a FOIA request for information gained from confidential informant Joe Blow; even if I receive only blacked-out pages, the fact that the records exist tells me something about Joe) (5 USC 552 (c)(2)) (3) The records are classified, held by the FBI, and pertain to intelligence, counterintelligence, or international terrorism. (5 USC 552 (c)(3)) They may also withhold information in other circumstances, but are not otherwise allowed to say that "no records exist". (There's something surreal about presuming careful attention to tiny legal details from organizations which perpetrated debacles like COINTELPRO, Waco, Ruby Ridge, perjury/manufacturing evidence in the FBI lab, etc. But sometimes something interesting is released, e.g., <http://www.epic.org/privacy/wiretap/Scowcroft.gif>.) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 4.5 iQEVAgUBMvky//37pMWUJFlhAQE5tgf/QstFYJxNcJuRIQjF14a+3luyJgFe8MCp UpMfykNKHmnbq+ChZCsmgXUCt49s0VFQYeMdNH1HWaaOcTtRr3uqNFqmyLBQxSne PboMtzvl0Z6NKcP/DV1BwHxHJZbYVGPoPXDYd7xHvIsU0xRbHVOQgidgMJQmjf4E 4S/T3tovD+e1ahoSCBkZslLs/13pMstmDxz5tPd2mHwsFfLiklSaRUcKmtdkGPTc da3VFFOjYlYB4ps4dkd7Vv6zgl4ZQJLMXZyoBsYrAax4k3eLuheVj/inZIqZFHvO LqJPdCM34QurFXIOQmlo7sQnOvWPgc2ASdctV46lHTSJA6USIhbt9A== =KAj+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- Greg Broiles | US crypto export control policy in a nutshell: gbroiles(a)netbox.com | http://www.io.com/~gbroiles | Export jobs, not crypto. |

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Remember the Blackout
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 19:12:47 -0500 (EST) To: Multiple Recipients of e$pam <e$pam(a)intertrader.com> From: e$pam(a)intertrader.com (e$pam) Reply-To: e$(a)thumper.vmeng.com X-Comment: To unsubscribe, send any email to e$pam-off(a)intertrader.com Precedence: Bulk Subject: Remember the Blackout X-orig-from: dwiner(a)well.com (DaveNet email) X-e$pam-source: owner-davenetworld(a)wired.com Forwarded by Robert Hettinga ----------------------------------------------------------------------- X-Sender: dwiner(a)mail.well.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 13:23:02 -0800 To: jonl(a)microsoft.com (Jon Lazarus), hopmann(a)holonet.net (Alex Hopmann), anna(a)LivePicture.com (Anna Godfrey), scotty1024(a)aol.com (Scott Turner), 577-7433(a)mcimail.com (Bobby Orbach), mwhutch(a)aol.com (Michael Hutchinson -- AOL Webmaster), rsiegelman(a)kpcb.com (Russ Siegelman), davenetworld(a)wired.com, pdeziel(a)adobe.com (Pam Deziel), siegel(a)barebones.com (Rich Siegel), slove(a)netscape.com (Scott Love) From: dwiner(a)well.com (DaveNet email) Subject: Remember the Blackout Sender: owner-davenetworld(a)wired.com Precedence: bulk --------------------------------------- Amusing Rants from Dave Winer's Desktop Released on 2/5/97; 1:23:01 PM PST --------------------------------------- A short piece, in the middle of much website work, to remind everyone that Saturday February 8 is the first anniversary of an important event in our new medium -- the web blackout of 1996. It's already history. In some circles it's not fashionable to remember that the United States government attempted to censor free speech on the Internet. I believe it would be cynical to overlook it. We defeated the law, even though we re-elected many of the politicians who tried to outlaw free speech in the name of protecting children. I'm building a website that will go live on Saturday to commemorate the protest, and to serve as a monument to the spirit of free speech. To remind us that this is a worldwide community, and no political system has the power to enforce its standards of decency on the medium. The battle to retain our rights is ongoing. Important organizations such as the Electronic Frontier Foundation and the American Civil Liberties Union deserve and require our support. It's easy to lose sight of the principles that we believe in, to be distracted by questions of corporate survival, of fear or greed. These are interesting issues, no doubt. But this is a creative and expressive medium and to protect its potential, unqualified free speech is essential. I played a small role in the web blackout last year. This year I hope to facilitate, to organize more sites and help to spread the word that free speech is not an option, not something that can be traded or limited and that no compromises are possible. <http://www.scripting.com/davenet/misc/blackout/> If you run a democracy-related site, large or small, please visit the page before Saturday and register. If you know someone who does, please pass this on. And if you value free speech, please visit the site on Saturday or later. It'll be a fascinating trip thru Internet history, if nothing else! Remember the blackout. Remember why it was necessary. Don't let people use children as an excuse to deprive people of their power to express themselves. Dave Winer ------------------------------------------- News & Updates: <http://www.scripting.com/> -------------------------------------------------- The e$ lists are brought to you by: Intertrader Ltd - Java e$ Software Developers in the UK Visit <http://www.intertrader.com/> for details ... Where people, networks and money come together: Consult Hyperion http://www.hyperion.co.uk info(a)hyperion.co.uk Like e$pam? Help pay for it! See <http://www.atanda.com/rah.html> Or, for e$pam sponsorship, see <http://thumper.vmeng.com/pub/rah/> Thanks to the e$ e$lves: Of Counsel: Vinnie Moscaritolo <mailto:vinnie@webstuff.apple.com> (Majordomo)^2: Rachel Willmer<mailto:rachel@intertrader.com> Commermeister: Anthony Templer <mailto:anthony@atanda.com> Interturge: Rodney Thayer <mailto:rodney@sabletech.com> HTMLurgist: Cynthia Zwerling <mailto:czrider@@webstuff.apple.com> --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "Never attribute to conspiracy what can be explained by stupidity." -- Jerry Pournelle The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/rah/ FC97: Anguilla, anyone? http://www.ai/fc97/

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[CRYPTO] PGP
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timmy C[reep] May has been beaten up numerous times by fellow prostitutes for driving blow job prices down. (((> /< ( / ((({{{{{:< \ \<

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Re: Deloitte-Touche?
by Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Marshall Clow <mclow(a)owl.csusm.edu> writes: > Several people wrote: > >I wrote: > >>ObCrypto policy: > >> Was anyone else besides me amazed by the guy > >>from Deloitte-Touche at the Internet Privacy Coalition luncheon > >>last week? I mean, he all but advocated violent overthrow of > >>the government. [...] > > > >For the benefit of those of us who were not at this luncheon (probably > >not even in the same country), could you please say more about this, > >Marshall? What was the subject? What _did_ the DT speaker say, exactly? > > > After a while, I stopped taking notes, because I was so astounded at > what he was saying. > (Maybe someone with more complete notes could post a better summary) > > But, here a brief overview of the luncheon: > > Last Wednesday, January 29th, the Internet Privacy Coalition had > a "policy lunch" in San Francisco. It was in one of the hotels hosting > the RSA conference, and at the same time that the conference was > breaking for lunch, so it was easy for attendees to "switch lunches". > > The speakers (as I remember, apologies to any I miss) were: > Whit Diffie > John Gilmore > Kenneth Bass (counsel in Karn vs. Dept of State) > Herb Lin (who ran the NRC staff for the crypto study) > Marc Rotenberg > William Hugh Murray (Deloitte & Touche) > and a couple others that I missed, as I left early. > > Mr. Murray gave a long, impassioned speech. > > He said that the government is going to crack down on > domestic possession and use of crypto, that they > were looking to increase their wiretapping capabilities > 100-fold, and so on. > > He was very emphatic about not trusting anything > that the government says, and that once they got > their "foot in the door", that they would seek to > expand their abilities to regulate, etc, etc. > > He advocated deployment of strong crypto. He > insisted that there was no way the government > could stop the export of strong crypto. He exhorted > people to refuse to obey the ITAR/EAR regulations, > and to lobby their congresscritters to get the > PRO-CODE bill passed. > > > It wasn't really what he said that amazed me, because > I had heard most of it (in bits and pieces) before. It > was presenting it all in a package, in an emotional > manner, by an elderly, conseratively dressed > accountant who was representing a large > corporation whose job it is to help people obey the > government. > > [ My father was an accountant. He worked for > Deloitte-Touche, in fact. I don't expect accountants > to be passionate about government regs, and > especially not to advocate disobediance. Maybe > that's why this affected me so strongly. ] > > -- Marshall > > Marshall Clow Aladdin Systems <mailto:mclow@mailhost2.csusm.edu> > > Warning: Objects in calendar are closer than they appear. > > I think Bill Murray might take offense at being called an accountant. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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RE: Fighting the cybercensor
by Sean Roach 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 09:09 PM 2/4/97 -0800, jim bell wrote: >At 08:15 PM 1/28/97 -0800, Steve Schear wrote: >>>The poor can not hope to match the tyrants bid as they only have 10% of the >>>wealth, the household knows that thier participation in an attempt on the >>>tyrant will get them killed. Even if the attempt was successful. >>>The people from the outside who would benefit from the bounty benefit more >>>by taking the tyrants offer and then trying again, i.e. tiger teams. >> >>I think a hole in your thinking is to assume that the assasins have no >>motive other than financial gain. I would submit that there are those that >>have the skills, training and a political agenda coherent with the >>wagerers, lacking only the financial incentive to make the risks >>acceptable. These wetworkers won't consider accepting the bribe of the >>rich/powerful ... > >However, fortunately I don't think it would make any difference in the >overall effects. While AP would eliminate the taxation which is commonly >thought of as the main way a "rich person" loses assets, in practice it >would also shut down the well-hidden systems that allow some people to get >rich (or, merely live off somebody else) "unfairly." Government agents >come to mind, of course. > The money doesn't necessarily come from taxation, the owner of a business takes a cut of whatever money is made even if that person is unproductive. The tyrant would be the owner of the industry. If you are right then governments would effectively lose the ability to tax, with or without representation, as most people do not agree on everything, like how their money is spent. However, even now, as pointed out in some recent posts, our tax money is used to foreward the goals of a few, these few want to eliminate guns, crypto, free speech, ect. Although we are in oppostition, our money is still used to foreward the goals. Not unlike what I heard about the U.S.S.R. in vietnam. The following is according to my source. When the Soviet Ambassitor to the U.N. was sick, thats when the aid to vietnam could begin, as the U.S.S.R was not there to veto it. Now the U.S.S.R. was forced to aid both sides, those that were in agreement with them politically, and the U.N., of which they were a member. End of source data. Even those who oppose the taxes would be forced to pay as it would be the army that would be collecting. Then they could take the remaining monies that they had to target the leaders, who would use the tax revinues to protect themselves. If more money was needed, nore taxes would be collected. If it were a private corporation, the wages of the workers would be reduced on occassion to pay for the different security systems of the owner. Additionally, under our current system, the assassin would have his day in court, perhaps he could escape the government, making the cost-benefit analysis skewed in favor of crime. Under a system as proposed, the assassin would be forced do deal with a more powerful curse. Insurance companies would be reconfigured to anonymously see to the death of whatever caused the death of thier clients. They would make money because if the death could be ruled accidental, they would not have to pay. If the person died of a heart attack, and the food taster didn't, (the food taster would probably be the cooks son by the way), then the bond that the tyrant had with the company would be void. The company would cash the check. If the tyrant wanted to insure h[is/er] survival, (s)he would take out several of these bonds, with different companies, each with a signature amount to give to the executors to check their loyalty. If the company paying 1295065 dollars didn't pay up, the executors would tell the world. The idea is, where a layer can be subverted, duplicate the layer so that at least one element is bound to work.

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Re: More on Cellular Encryption Docs
by Sean Roach 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 12:39 AM 2/5/97 -0800, Bill Stewart wrote: >>>>Here's more on the controlled documents for cellular encryption >>>>from TIA/EIA we described in a 26 January post to cpunks: >... >>>Of course, ITAR as recently modified says it's ok to send this >>>stuff overseas to foreigners, as long as it's on paper. >>>There may be separate restrictions on sending it, or on copying, >>>but they're based on copyright or contractual non-disclosure. >> >>Given that high-density inkjet printers can do 600x600 dpi resolution, it >>should be possible to achieve the equivalent of 100x100 bpi of >>easily-recoverable data on ordinary paper. That's about 800 kilobits, or >>100 kilobytes. What does ITAR say about this? > >These are text, perhaps with occasional illustrations, so the current >interim export rules say it's ok. > >For optically-scannable printed data, the government's announcement says >it reserves (somehow) its right (acquired in unspecified manner :-) >to re-evaluate the exportability at a later time. I think they >haven't settled on whether they'd be more embarassed by banning it >(which bans export of printed material, risking serious Constitutional >challenges) or by not banning it (having people laugh at them while >exporting source code or even binaries in OCR-A on loose-leaf paper >with page numbers and checksums.) ... Let's not tempt them with something that the common person on the street would consider computer media, I.E. punched cards and dataglyphs. Remember the old fonts that used to be everywhere? The ones with the thickened letters at key places? Look at a check some time, that is the type of font at the bottom, its designed to be readable by both man and machine. Print out the source code in one of those fonts and mail that. This is not as data intensive as the other way, but at least it can be argued that it can be read by an unaided person. That way, on the other end, the text can be scanned in directly, using a modified form of check clearing software, and converted into electronic media, sans errors.

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MA Electronic Records and Signature Act
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 19:08:30 -0500 (EST) To: Multiple Recipients of e$pam <e$pam(a)intertrader.com> From: e$pam(a)intertrader.com (e$pam) Reply-To: e$(a)thumper.vmeng.com X-Comment: To unsubscribe, send any email to e$pam-off(a)intertrader.com Precedence: Bulk Subject: MA Electronic Records and Signature Act X-orig-from: EskWIRED <eskwired(a)shore.net> X-e$pam-source: bounce-dcsb(a)ai.mit.edu Forwarded by Robert Hettinga ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 17:27:30 -0500 (EST) From: EskWIRED <eskwired(a)shore.net> To: dcsb(a)ai.mit.edu Subject: MA Electronic Records and Signature Act MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: bounce-dcsb(a)ai.mit.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: EskWIRED <eskwired(a)shore.net> A discussion draft of the MA Electronic Records and Signatures Act is now available on the web at http://www.magnet.state.ma.us/itd/legal/mersa.htm. The draft appears to be very preliminary--entire sections are marked [under development]. It is notable for its brevity, especially compared to the Utah Statute. Noticeably absent is any language dealing with licensure of certification authorities (bravo!). A link is provided for submission of public comments to Ray Campbell and Dan Greenwood. ========================================================= ---------EskWIRED(a)shore.net------------ ========================================================= ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To unsubscribe from the dcsb list, send a letter to: Majordomo(a)ai.mit.edu In the body of the message, write: unsubscribe dcsb Or, to subscribe, write: subscribe dcsb If you have questions, write to me at Owner-DCSB(a)ai.mit.edu -------------------------------------------------- The e$ lists are brought to you by: Intertrader Ltd - Java e$ Software Developers in the UK Visit <http://www.intertrader.com/> for details ... Where people, networks and money come together: Consult Hyperion http://www.hyperion.co.uk info(a)hyperion.co.uk Like e$pam? Help pay for it! See <http://www.atanda.com/rah.html> Or, for e$pam sponsorship, see <http://thumper.vmeng.com/pub/rah/> Thanks to the e$ e$lves: Of Counsel: Vinnie Moscaritolo <mailto:vinnie@webstuff.apple.com> (Majordomo)^2: Rachel Willmer<mailto:rachel@intertrader.com> Commermeister: Anthony Templer <mailto:anthony@atanda.com> Interturge: Rodney Thayer <mailto:rodney@sabletech.com> HTMLurgist: Cynthia Zwerling <mailto:czrider@@webstuff.apple.com> --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "Never attribute to conspiracy what can be explained by stupidity." -- Jerry Pournelle The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/rah/ FC97: Anguilla, anyone? http://www.ai/fc97/

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No Subject
by Bovine Remailer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

http://www.cnn.com Congressman demonstrates ease of cell phone snooping

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Re: Getting into MIT is impossible
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 04:50 PM 2/5/97 +0100, P.J. Westerhof wrote: >At 18:12 4-02-97 -0800, you wrote: >>Erland van Lidth de Jeude is a MIT grad. He played the big badass in "Stir >>Crazy." Computer science major, BTW. >> >He is quite a singer too (at least he was some years ago on Dutch TV). >Perhaps that made the difference. ;-) He was on the fourth floor of the west parallel of East Campus, in about 1977 as I recall. I was on the third floor. He was a wrestler; I heard he didn't have to work all that hard, he could just sit on the opponent and he'd win. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Re: Letter Re: Kahn Supporting GAK
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 05:16 AM 2/5/97 +0000, Robert Rothenburg 'Walking-Owl' wrote: >My letter to Long Island Newsday regarding David Kahn's pro-GAK >editorial was published today. You can read it at > > http://www.newsday.com/mainnews/rnmi052u.htm > >What's odd (?) is how they editied it. I directed my comments toward >Mr. Kahn's views, which they changed to "Newsday" (odd, since I've >never seen them print an editorial one way or another on GAK; does >this mean they are taking a stand? -- Kahn is an editor at Newsday). > >I wrote "The greatest flaw in the argument is it's very reason, >'criminals... are increasingly using encryption to conceal their plans >and activities'" which they changed to "It reports...". I never >considered an op-ed piece as "reporting", even if it states a fact. But which "criminals," exactly, are "increasingly using encryption to conceal their plans and activities"? Let's not concede this unless it's really true. It would be far more accurate to say that it's likely that many people who are politically hostile to their government are using encryption in anticipation of persecution by the government, persecution that could easily come in the form of criminal charges. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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mail list / sequence number & signature
by Corey Minter 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Have the list maintainers ever considered either or both of the following... (Sorry in advance if this has been brought up sometime in the past.) o adding a digital signature from "owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com", so someone can't mass mail the mailing list and make it appear that the message came from toad.com. I just tried to figure out if the id in the header is in any order but I couldn't tell. I have already deleted many messages so some numbers are missing anyway. o adding a sequence number to every message which comes through toad.com, so recipients can easily notice if mail is be accidentially or intentionally filtered by their service provider or any other forces. At the same time, you could add the current numbers for flame vs. non-flame. This would help end all the bandwidth wasted on people speculating about the numbers. say there are X total messages, Y non-flames, and Z flames then the appearance to subscriber (either in the subject or some header field) could be... list type | all non-flame flame ---- | --- --------- ----- non-flame | X (non-flame Y) Y (all X) flame | X (flame Z) Z (all X) -- Of course... these are my opinions, not my employer's. ______________________________________________________________________ Corey Minter | cminter(a)mipos2.intel.com | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Re: Letter Re: Kahn Supporting GAK
by Robert Rothenburg 'Walking-Owl' 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Good point: but I've seen a few refs from LEAs about "Drug Dealer X who we can't talk about" or "Child Pornographer Y who we can't talk about" (in lieu of cases being digested by the court system) so I didn't harp on that point. A point I did leave out was that if they already knew these people were criminals and were building cases against them, monitoring them enough to know they used crypto, then do they really need to bother with listening in to the exact message? I wanted to emphasize the phallacy of the sacrifical lamb of rights in the name of the god of security. Also, they mungled the letter enough, so it's better for LI Newsday (which caters to a reading level of the average 12-year-old) submissions to be kept short and sweet. I'm quite surprised that mine is the only letter they printed. Certainly they would have gotten more than one submission on a controversial subject? --Rob On 5 Feb 97 at 18:22, jim bell wrote: > But which "criminals," exactly, are "increasingly using encryption to > conceal their plans and activities"? Let's not concede this unless it's > really true. > > It would be far more accurate to say that it's likely that many people who > are politically hostile to their government are using encryption in > anticipation of persecution by the government, persecution that could easily > come in the form of criminal charges. > > > Jim Bell > jimbell(a)pacifier.com > > ----- "The word to kill ain't dirty | Robert Rothenburg (WlkngOwl(a)unix.asb.com) I used it in the last line | http://www.asb.com/usr/wlkngowl/ but use a short word for lovin' | Se habla PGP: Reply with the subject and dad you wind up doin' time." | 'send pgp-key' for my public key.

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Re: Cypherpunks FOIA request
by Lucky Green 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 12:40 AM 2/5/97 -0800, Greg Broiles wrote: >I'm not sure what I think about the response from the SF FBI branch - it >seems unlikely that they'd never have paid any attention to the list, given >the media coverage in Wired and other places. My attorney used to fly planes with nuclear cargo. Another friend of mine has been visited several times by the FBI. In either case, the FBI claimed upon receiving an FOIA request that they have no record on either person. Does anybody here believe that the USAF would let pilots take off with nukes on board without ever conducting a background investigation (which are handled by the FBI)? I didn't think so. -- Lucky Green <mailto:shamrock@netcom.com> PGP encrypted mail preferred "I do believe that where there is a choice only between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence." Mahatma Gandhi

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pgpmail 4.5
by nobody＠huge.cajones.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

you wrote: There is a pgpmail45.exe at ftp.hacktic.nl/pub/replay/pub/incoming. The file has an md5 sum of 'ffd56d7647c30152a5c9fe7616a3d9ef'. i downloaded the same. md5 5ea438501d0133f0849c2fe8f9125b6b can someone clear this up?

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No Subject
by Bovine Remailer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

http://www.cnn.com Congressman demonstrates ease of cell phone snooping

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Re: Getting into MIT is impossible
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 04:50 PM 2/5/97 +0100, P.J. Westerhof wrote: >At 18:12 4-02-97 -0800, you wrote: >>Erland van Lidth de Jeude is a MIT grad. He played the big badass in "Stir >>Crazy." Computer science major, BTW. >> >He is quite a singer too (at least he was some years ago on Dutch TV). >Perhaps that made the difference. ;-) He was on the fourth floor of the west parallel of East Campus, in about 1977 as I recall. I was on the third floor. He was a wrestler; I heard he didn't have to work all that hard, he could just sit on the opponent and he'd win. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Deloitte-Touche, e$pam plug, Moderation, Cypherpunks as a cresote bush
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 4:05 pm -0500 2/5/97, Mark Voorhees wrote: >I'm almost certain that Murray is a consultant rather than >or in addition to an accountant. He's been saying these things >for years at conferences, in papers, on mailing lists, etc. For the longest time, I've had a couple of people from dtus.com on my e$pam feed. They signed on when I started my own list out of www-buyinfo. About 6 months ago, however, mail to them started bouncing out of e$, the chat list I set up as an adjunct to e$pam. Which makes sense, because that's when they stopped chatting about e$. :-). I expect that the same thing happend to e$pam, though Rachel Wilmer, who is my e$pam listmaster would have seen it, and not I. Actually, e$ has become something of a watering hole, now with about twice as many subscribers as e$pam does. Some cypherpunks among them. Oh. While we're all talking about moderation, e$pam is a sort of filtered superset of cypherpunks. I have filtered cypherpunks posts in it, but I also have stuff from the 50-odd mail lists and 70 news groups I follow. The total feed can reach 300k a day sometimes, mostly because I include the full text of stuff like some of John Young's articles, and the text of the occasional web-page which tickles my fancy. Sort of immoderate moderation. :-). You can subscribe to it on my web page, which is in my .sig, below. I've a bunch of people working with me now on e$pam, who, among other things, are in the process of getting it set up in a searchable archive. Though, to prevent crawlers from seeing all the juicy bits (cf. Mr. Young, above), we're probably going to have some kind of certificate-access scheme when we get it all running. Rodney Thayer, who's doing IPSEC stuff, (among other things :-)), is going to run a quick-and-dirty generic certification authority to make that happen. In the meantime, if you're interested in e$, or financial crypto, or other stuff I'm interested ("it don't say e$pam until Bob says it says e$pam" :-)), you might want to check it. Even though cypherpunks is a lot "cleaner" now, and I did encourage Sandy in his efforts initially, I suppose I'm now weighing in with (horrors!) Tim on the subject of moderation. I think that if Sandy and John want to create a moderated list (like I have done, though e$pam is more specific in content) out of what happens on cypherpunks, they could do it with exactly the traffic they have now in experimental moderation mode. The current machine load doesn't seem to be impacting the throughput to cypherpunks(moderated), modulo Sandy's moderation time, though if toad.com's being used for much else, there might be problems there. Part of the nice thing about cypherpunks 1.0 was that anything could happen there. That it was anarchy in practice. And, maybe because of my periodic altercations with Mr. May on this list (thank god for his kill-file :-)) even the anonymous Tim-slams were occasionally entertaining, in a, ahem, biologically curious sort of way. ;-). So, I guess I think we should put it back the way it was. Including, please Mr. Gilmore, "officially' resubscribing the Wee-vil Dr. V. Then those who've made it so can annouce to the world that cypherpunks is again a proper anarchy. Then we can us deal with miscreants the way we used to, by ignoring them, (and the occasional e-mailbomb...). Finally, I have an analogy for cypherpunks from nature. There are lots of plants, some of them the technically the largest living beings on earth, which, at first glance, look like a bunch of different individual plants. Aspen groves, for instance, are all linked together under the soil to the same system of roots, and are genetically the same individual. Some of these "stands" of trees cover tens of square miles, and one patch of Aspens, in Wyoming? Montana? is the world's largest living thing, massing several million(?) tons, and probably tens of thousands of years old. Fungi do this too. Toadstools (a rather, heh, fecund analog for cypherpunks) tend to create very large "individuals", with each toadstool representing the fruiting body for a huge bunch of mycyillia(sp?) underneath it. Toadstools create structures called, ahem, "fairy rings", where the central mushroom dies, only to be replaced by a ring of other mushrooms, which die, and so on, until they're covering your whole fucking lawn and messing up your lawnmower bag... (well, anyway, you get the idea.) There was the claim a few years ago that the same genetic individual slime mold covered half of Wisconsin (Minnesota?). The king of all the plants which do this, I think, is the cresote bush, which, I believe, in some pieces of the Sonorran(sp?) desert, cover hundreds of square miles. Scientists, using tree-ring dating, have worked back, through various rings of cresote bushes, using their very slow growth rates in the desert environment, to the center of the creosote bush cluster, to estimate the date of these things. I remember claims that these plants may have started from a single individual, there at the long dead (or at least regrown-over) center of the ring, more than a hundred, and maybe several hundred thousand years ago. So, let nature take its course. Most lists die when people stop posting to it. That certainly hasn't happened to cypherpunks. And, when it does, we can all migrate out into the numerous rings of lists that cypherpunks has spawned (I think I can account about putting together 10 or so myself) among them. Cheers, Bob Hettinga ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "Never attribute to conspiracy what can be explained by stupidity." -- Jerry Pournelle The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/rah/ FC97: Anguilla, anyone? http://www.ai/fc97/

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pgpmail 4.5
by Huge Cajones Remailer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

you wrote: There is a pgpmail45.exe at ftp.hacktic.nl/pub/replay/pub/incoming. The file has an md5 sum of 'ffd56d7647c30152a5c9fe7616a3d9ef'. i downloaded the same. md5 5ea438501d0133f0849c2fe8f9125b6b can someone clear this up?

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