December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: [REBUTTAL] Censorship on cypherpunks?, from The Netly News
by Dave Hayes 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> It's not a way of saying I don't understand. Instead, I find your > viewpoint incomprehensible and internally inconsistent. Which, of course, means that there is nothing to understand...for you. However, I do observe that there are meanings in things I, myself, find both incomprehensible and inconsistent. Just because I am unable to understand does not mean that there is no understanding to be had. I am not that important. Are you? > In fact, you Freedom Knight folks seem to be closet censors yourself. Why > do you support not carrying newsgroups like alt.config? I never have supported or opposed alt.config. I have said that it is meaningless, but that was after I understood its purpose. ;-) > Yes, ownership gives you a license to censor. I'm going to have a party in > my home a few weeks from now. If I don't like what someone is doing, I'll > kick 'em out. I won't do it lightly, but I will fight for my right to do > so. Of course, you may invite anyone you choose, since a party is usually had by inviting people whom you select. If you invite them and then subsequently kick them out when they do things you do not want them to do, I will chastise -you- (if I am present) for your lack of judgement in whom to invite. Their behavior would merely something to learn from, yours would be fashionably dishonorable. BTW, "Kicking them out" is not censorship. A party and a mailing list are usually two different things. The former may include the latter, but the latter is not anything like the former. > Oh, and I plan to subscribe to the freedom-knights mailing list and infest > it the way Vulis did cypherpunks. Every hour, on the hour, a crontab > script will flood it with rants about Dave (fart) Hayes. You won't do this, because I won't let you on the list. I, unlike you or Mr. Gilmore, have the judgement on whom to invite to my list. > What will you do then? Even if you did such a thing, I have a mail filter. Your messages would be unceremoniously discarded. Have you learned nothing from USENET? ------ Dave Hayes - Altadena CA, USA - dave(a)jetcafe.org Freedom Knight of Usenet - http://www.jetcafe.org/~dave/usenet Ask the American public if they want an FBI Wiretax and they'll say 'no.' If you ask them do they want a feature on their phone that helps the FBI find their missing child they'll say, 'Yes.'" - FBI Directory Louis Freeh, on Digital Telephony, US House (Subcmte. on Telecommunications & Finance) hearing on the Digital Telephony bill, 09/13/94).

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Re: take me off your mailing list
by AwakenToMe＠aol.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In a message dated 96-11-13 18:35:35 EST, FWJZ05A(a)prodigy.com (CLERK PHILLIP G ROBERTS) writes: << unsubcribe cypherpunks >> Ok.. thisd is IT! Im going to start keeping a log of how many people actually spell unsubscribe wrong. God.. I thought the average person was more literate. Id HATE to ask these people how to spell wednesday or arkansas

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Re: [TEST] [IGNORE] [NOISE]
by Bryondp＠aol.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

take me off this fucking list

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Re: Secrecy: My life as a nym. (Was: nym blown?)
by Greg Broiles 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 07:31 PM 11/12/96 -0800, Detweiler/VZ Nuri wrote: >actually, there are some amusing things going on here with cpunk >"rules." are cpunks in favor of pseudonyms or not? one famous >cpunk madman wrote under a pseudonym to the list, and many >cypherpunk went to great lengths to try to derive his identity. >is this a case of respecting pseudonyms? or is it more a case of >the double standard at best, hypocrisy at worst, >"respect my pseudonyms, but yours are fair game"? You've neglected to mention that your (e.g., "the madman's") messages were criticizing the use of pseudonyms, and the use of more than one identity by an individual person. You've also neglected to mention that you (a single person) were using multiple identities to argue that multiple identities were harmful. In general, you're conflating several positions: 1. Fluid identities (e.g., imprecise or unregulated mapping between personas and flesh-and-blood bodies) cannot be prevented; 2. Fluid identities should be tolerated; 3. Fluid identities should be encouraged. >one noted proponent of pseudonymity, whom we will merely call "Timmy", >regularly takes great glee in misattributing my own posts to some >deranged crackpot running loose in cyberspace. is this a case >of respecting my identity? suppose I really was this person-- >shouldn't Timmy's position be one of respect for my use of >a pseudonym? I can't speak for Tim, but your messages do cause me to consider these ethical questions - e.g., is it more important to focus on what you've argued (that multiple identities are bad), or what you're doing (using multiple identities), or on a "politeness" principle, e.g., that gentle[wo]men don't reveal each other's identities. Arguments about a "right to be pseudonymous" are as problematic as the recent "free speech" arguments, where the identity of the right isn't so much in question as is who it is enforceable against - e.g., I can't force someone else to let me use their stuff to speak freely. Can I force someone else (not only with law, but with appeals to morality or contract or politeness or other forms of nongovernmental regulation) to address me by a chosen pseudonym, or prevent them from linking multiple identities? I think there is (or should be) a "politeness norm" which limits linking between identities, just as I see one which limits the disclosure of other personal data; I don't give out other people's home phone numbers to third parties, I don't pass along the identity of a person's "significant other" or home address, and otherwise try to let each person choose how much they want to disclose about their personal lives to the rest of the world. And I hope that they will do the same for me. It's not especially unusual for folks on the list to use abbreviated or pseudonymous identities; but the "strength" of these is limited as we meet each other in person, do business with each other, etc. It's difficult to form a strong relationship without getting to know others, but it's difficult to preserve privacy and let someone get to know you. A principle which preserves both values (privacy and disclosure) seems useful. But I also think that politeness norms are limited in their applicability - in particular, I also think it's useful to subject other people to the rules they propose should be applicable to everyone. This is a good way to try out proposed rules, and in some cases to help people understand why their rules are stupid. You have written that the use of pseudonyms and multiple identities is wrong. So I think it's reasonable to expect you to live up to the standards you've argued should be applied to all people. So you don't get the benefit (at least from me) of the politeness norms about pseudonyms. If you've changed your mind about the morality of "pseudospoofing", by all means, let me know. I believe that you are familiar with the "subject others to their own rules" rule, because it is the rule you're using/have used to justify your use of multiple identities, hmm? >the basic >cpunk philosophy, as amply illustrated by 2/3 of its founders, is >"look out for #1 only, and don't waste time on something as >inane as selfless public service or leadership" I suspect you intended this as some sort of indictment, but I don't know if you'll get a lot of disagreement (or even surprise). This philosophy seems to be at the core of much libertarian thought and free-market economics, two themes which are popular on the list. I think it's far too old-fashioned to qualify as "cypherpunk", but you're in the wrong place if you're hoping to insult someone by saying that. -- Greg Broiles | "In this court, appellant and respondent are the gbroiles(a)netbox.com | same person. Each party has filed a brief." http://www.io.com/~gbroiles | Lodi v. Lodi, 173 Cal.App.3d 628, 219 Cal. | Rptr. 116 (3rd Dist, 1985)

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Re: [REBUTTAL] Censorship on cypherpunks?, from The Netly News
by George A. Stathis 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 06:34 ìì 13/11/1996 -0500, Mark M. wrote: (in response to): >> Just as suddenly, the classic anti-free-speech arguments of "if you >> don't like it, start yer own" begin to surface. (Anyone ever notice >> how this resembles the "love it or leave it" mentality of certain >> American patriotic organizations?) >Governments maintain a monopoly on land, so the "love it or leave it" mentality >is flawed. Virtual space does not have the same limitations as physical >space. Starting your own mailing list is relatively easy. Not at all easy, for a lot of people. Moreover, it's very time-consuming. It's only easy if you are prepared to put up with costs of time, money, and also... service providers (who don't always agree with you)... In a lot of places in the world, starting mailing lists is almost impossible unless you can be _inside_ an Internet Provider Company (and use Unix or whatever they use, in their own machines). >> It is sad to note that this is the leader of one of America's >> forerunning organizations of freedom who says these words. For all >> *his* ideology of free speech, this statement reveals the hypocrasy he >> lives with for all to see. The true litmus test of free speech is to >> encounter speech that you *want* to censor. > >The EFF protects against government censorship, not against "editorial >control", "censorship", or whatever else you want to call it. I don't >see this as hypocritical at all. Perhaps cynical, though? :-) >> Mr. Gilmore, and other like minded parties, might want to consider >> what would happen if one parent company owned *all* communications >> media. Would they they be so supportive of the ideology of ownership >> and communciation they espouse? > >And just how plausible do you think this is? I believe it is next to >impossible, unless it is the result of government regulation. Man you're nutts. There are very few and quite vast Media Companies in the world, and they're on the verge of becoming monopolies. Even your American President is in reality a puppet of the Trilateral Commission, who effectively also control CNN, the Washington Post, and many many many other things all over the world. And you are saying that control of the media by ownership is impossible? You're far out maaan! :-) Only in America such a naive opinion could actually be _believed_. (here I go again... aga! :-) ) George P.S. Even if you offered me a million dollars I'd stay away from your country. My sanity is much more valuable. :-) (The Immigration Authorities in the U.S. have missed the point: We DON'T want to come to you guys. It's the last thing we'd want!)

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Re: Dossier on Tim May is Easily Obtainable
by Sean Roach 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 12:11 PM 11/13/96 -0600, Rick Smith wrote: ... >Records retrieved from [SOURCE DELETED] also show that the young Timothy >Christopher May exploited his interest in physics for destructive purposes, >like elaborate pranks involving fictious weaponry and national security >information. [INFORMATION DELETED FOR NATIONAL SECURITY REASONS -- ORCON >U31 -- OADR FOR RECLASSIFICATION] > >However, more careful investigators have uncovered evidence to suggest that >this was not entirely a prank. Records from [SOURCE DELETED] indicate that >the young Timothy Christopher May purchased a huge gap magnet from Edmund >Scientific Company and also produced science fair project titled "Ball >Lightning: A Stable Plasma?" Investigators suspect the timing of these >events is not a coincidence. ... Ball lightning? Plasma weapon? Could I have a copy of the schematics? I've long been interested in obtaining (purchasing, building) a plasma weapon. (I'm also been interested in obtaining a EM pulse cannon, but that's a different story.)

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Re: Secrecy: My life as a nym. (Was: nym blown?)
by Duncan Frissell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:14 PM 11/11/96 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: >This is an interesting topic. I apologize if my questions are too trivial, >but here they are: > > 1) Can a person without an SSN have a credit record? Some > may say that a credit record is a bad thing to have, > but I am still interested in a possibility. If you have a credit history you can have a credit record with or without an SSN. Millions of foreigners have credit histories without SSNs BTW. Millions of people with wrong or false SSNs also have credit histories. The SSA decided a few years ago not to let the credit reporting agencies check the validity of the SSNs in their records with the SSNs in the SSA database. > 2) Will private lenders (such as credit card issuers or > mortgage companies) agree to extend credit to a person > without an SSN or to someone who refuses to give out his SSN? Not if they are in America but those outside America will. False SSN's may work though falsifying mortgage applications (with a federally insured bank) may be a crime. Individuals can also grant mortgages however and are free to do so without using an SSN. > 3) Will the state issue a driver's license to someone who does not > have/does not wish to give out their SSN? Those states that don't require SSNs will of course. Some (most?) states that require SSNs don't validate them. Canadian provinces don't require US SSNs to issue licenses. > 4) Will states' police (where applicable) approve purchases of > firearms if purchasers do not state their ssn (misstating it > may be a crime) on an application? It's been so long since I bought from a dealer. Do the current federal forms have a place for SSN? > 5) Employers are required to pay certain taxes and therefore > they, in my understanding, need to know their employees SSNs. > How can people get around that (unless they do not need to work)? Lie, be self employed, or be employed by a foreign entity. They won't be able to verify until the new Instant Check Right to Work Verification scheme that the Feds are testing breaks wide. Then it's self-employment -- better for you in any case. > 6) Can someone without an SSN obtain various kinds of insurance? Some kinds. Again, the numbers are rarely verified. Over the years, I've only seen one number be bounced back and that was submitted to a bank by a person who did not vet the number for facial validity. If one institution turns you down, go to another. >Say, John Anonymous is a young 15 years old who anticipates to become an >engineer and have a middle class life. He wants to get married, No problem (unless his fiance wants to run a credit check). Even if the marriage license app wants an SSN, just say you're a foreigner with no SSN. Foreigners can still marry in America. Even if you also state on the same form that you were born in the US, you could still be a foreigner who's never really lived here. "My father was the Canadian Ambassador at the time." >have children Still accomplished by unskilled labor totally without an SSN. >drive a car Put hands on wheel and foot on gas. Trivial. Lie or get a foreign license. UK licenses are good for decades. A dozen states (or so) still let you operate a motor vehicle sans public liability insurance BTW and non-drivers, corporations, other entities, in fact anyone or anything can own a car. You can drive a car owned by something/someone else. >obtain insurance Lie. Or get insurance from a nice Swiss company. >work at some big company, A lot less of that going around these days. Giving a false SSN may or may not be caught. Large companies often do credit checks these days but you will probably survive. If you're working at a large company as a contractor or temp of course, your small agency may not have checked you out much. You can satisfy the I9 form requirements for proving right to work by flashing your passport BTW and you can still get a passport without supplying an SSN (in spite of the law). >travel around the world No problem. The ICAO record format for the nice little machine readable strip on passports *does* have space to place a National ID Number, but the standards do not require that a nation issue a National ID Number and fill that block. The UK and the US and others have (so far) not done so. The US legislation (effective January 1988) that the Passport Office's Application ask you for your SSN and forward info on refusenicks to the Treasury Department for a possible $500 fine, specifically says that failure to provide the number shall not be grounds for refusal by State to issue a passport. In practice, Treasury has not fined anyone. >invest in mutual funds or buy stocks Lie, have a corporation or trust you control buy, buy overseas or via Canada, etc. >Reliance on government help is not important to him, so he would not >apply for an SSN solely to get Social Security, welfare and such. > >His parents are cypherpunks and did not obtain an SSN for John. How much >effort would it cost him to live a life outlined above? Less effort that cross country skiing (in calories burned). May even provide similar recreational value depending on John's ideology. DCF "You're real smart. I bet you never forget your Social Security Number. What's your Social Security Number"? -- The Susan Sarandon character in "Atlantic City" "I don't have a Social Security Number." -- The Burt Lancaster character in "Atlantic City"

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Re: A Disservice to Mr. Bell
by hallam＠vesuvius.ai.mit.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Jim Bell writes > There are, I think, two reasons that the equity court system (and their > sleazy lawyers, both on and off the bench) are worried. First, what they > have now is, effectively, a monopoly on "justice." The re-emergence of > commonlaw courts would provide competition that has been long gone. Think > of it like any monopoly that suddenly has to accept competition. A bunch of self selected whackos running a kangeroo court does not mark a return to "commonlaw courts". Such courts do not exist within the constitution of the United States. Unlike the UK the US has a written constitution, if it isn't written down on paper then it does not exist. The structure of the courts, the legislature and such was the principle task of the constitution, that is why the bill of rights is a set of ammendments - they were an afterthought. I think the courts are worried the way a truck driver is worried about roadkill. Its always the agent-provocateurs who are the loudest voices. If I was an FBI agent looking to snare a few pillocks I would be trolling in cypherpunks with an AP like story. I would also be boasting about my knowing about people in hiding... If Bell and Thorn are Freeh's agents then would they kindly bugger off and find another place to troll. Alternatively they could arrest each other. Phill

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RE: Remailer Abuse Solutions
by Hal Finney 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I had a similar thought a few months ago. Actually with DigiCash there is a specially nice feature from the point of view of the remailer. Suppose the cash is embedded in the message headers itself. The remailer receives the message with the cash in it, turns it in at the bank to make sure it is good, and withdraws a new blinded coin which it sticks in the headers of the outgoing message. The eventual recipient of that message can then have his software turn in that coin and if it is good that raises the priority of the message for him to read. The nice thing is that if the recipient doesn't have the DigiCash software, he will never cash the coin. That means that the remailer can, after a delay, reclaim uncashed coins for its own use. It doesn't have to charge postage explicitly, but it benefits as a middleman from unclaimed postage. This would also of course encourage people to learn to use digital cash so they could take advantage of these pennies from heaven in their mailboxes. Hal

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Validating SSNs
by putney 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>At 4:13 PM 11/13/96, Black Unicorn wrote: >>Exercise for the reader: How does the bank verify SSNs? >OK, I'll bite. >My guess is that the bank sticks the SSN in a report to the IRS and the >bank is happy with the SSN as long as the IRS doesn't complain about it. >Now, does the IRS check? I suspect that they don't, either. Their objective >is to look for "matches" with SSNs that show up on filed tax forms, since >they want to verify the data on the tax form. Given the behavior of every >other large database I've ever seen, I'd guess that there would be a huge >number of SSNs that don't in fact associate with tax forms. If someone High >Up hasn't decreed that they should chase such things down (and allocated >heaps of money to do it), they'll ignore the mismatches. >This seems consistent with the reports of people who use bogus SSNs for >decades at a time. >Rick. >smith(a)sctc.com Yup - You've got it right. A bank's responsibility is to make the SSN match on tape with what the IRS has - thats it. It was part of the big stink in the 80's when congress first said that all banks had to withhold on all interest, the banks yelled, and then the SSN match program was instituted. There are significant fines for banks that do not follow up on mis-matches, or do not begin "back-up" withholding. One person is no big deal, but they add up fast! The IRS's job is to collect income so if the number matches with a filing then a-okay! Yo. Putney

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Cypherpunks Shooting Club II
by Lucky Green 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Last Sunday, only four Cypherpunks participated in the first field trip organized by the Cypherpunks Shooting Club. Though I dare say that we had loads of fun. Anybody interested in participating next Sunday is encouraged to contact me. A wide range of firearms will be provided. -- Lucky Green <mailto:shamrock@netcom.com> PGP encrypted mail preferred Member JPFO. "America's Aggressive Civil Rights Organization"

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Re: A Disservice to Mr. Bell
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 11:19 PM 11/13/96 -0500, Phillip M. Hallam-Baker wrote: >Jim Bell writes > >> There are, I think, two reasons that the equity court system (and their >> sleazy lawyers, both on and off the bench) are worried. First, what they >> have now is, effectively, a monopoly on "justice." The re-emergence of >> commonlaw courts would provide competition that has been long gone. >Think >> of it like any monopoly that suddenly has to accept competition. > >A bunch of self selected whackos running a kangeroo court does not mark a >return to "commonlaw courts". As for the "self-selected" issue: In almost all areas of human endeavor, things are (often? usually?) done by people who are "self-selected." I suggest that there is simply no reason that even "self-selected" courts cannot work. And for the "wacko" part: To a great extent, the people who would tend to oppose the re-emergence of commonlaw courts are those who are the ones who most benefit from the monopoly (oligopoly?) on justice which has developed over many decades. Judges, prosecutors, and lawyers of course profit directly. But psychologically, people wedded to a statist philosophy would have their precious worlds overturned. They're not happy. Also: The reason for an (apparent, implied) association with extremism is, simply, because the system has been suppressed (actively or passively) for so long that it tends to be the "extremists" which most notice the possibilities of a commonlaw court. This is quite analogous with the fact that the label "extremists" was almost certainly applied to the revolutionaries who proposed the American Revolution, the abolition of slavery, giving the vote to women, pushed civil rights in the US during the 50's and 60's, etc. By definition, people proposing a change in the status quo are "extremists," if they weren't they wouldn't be proposing a change, huh?!? And this goes back to the "self-selected" issue above as well. While the main work of commonlaw courts, today, is the reversal of the abuses of the equity court system, as the commonlaw courts become once again well accepted they will simply not need to stand out and look "extreme" as they may look to you, today. > Such courts do not exist within the constitution >of the United States. Unlike the UK the US has a written constitution, if >it isn't written down on paper then it does not exist. You're obviously confused. 1. Commonlaw courts predate the US Constitution by a few hundred years. The former does not depend on the latter for authority or credibility. 2. The US Constitution is, at most, a statement of the authority of the FEDERAL portion of government. It is, arguably, only a statement of the powers granted to the Feds by the people; it is most certainly not intended to be a statement of every right retained by the people. (In fact, the 9th and 10th amendments make it clear that non-enumerated rights exist.) No authority over commonlaw courts (such as appointing judges) was given to the Feds by the people. 3. The Federal Constitution only references states, and I don't think it references state Constitutions at all. Yet clearly state Constitutions exist. Clearly, it isn't correct to say "if it isn't written down on paper then it does not exist." For example, people are not "written down on paper," yet they exist... > The structure of the courts, You should have said, SOME courts. Not "the courts," implying ALL the courts. Notice that the US Federal Constitution (at least, to my recollection) does not describe or regulate state courts, or for that matter local courts. Just Federal, which is as was intended. Given this, there is no reason to assume that commonlaw courts need to be described, authorized, or regulated by the Feds. If your argument is, "if it isn't defined by the Federal Constitution it doesn't exist," then you'd just destroyed your own argument. >the legislature and such was the principle task of the constitution, >that is why the bill of rights is a set of ammendments - they were an >afterthought. This has absolutely nothing to do with the commonlaw court system. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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The Key for the IPG 200 Megabytes at NETPRIVACY.COM
by wichita＠cyberstation.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In response to the numerous requests for us to post the key that we used to produce the almost 200 megabytes of raw encryptor stream at our web site, we are pleased to provide the ASCII values of same as follows: OFFSET 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 237 55 181 123 98 190 172 218 32 95 1 76 254 70 151 109 109 115 87 146 142 2 233 129 176 197 154 22 122 168 96 9 3 115 234 241 54 78 120 81 33 128 196 4 177 8 69 53 71 116 0 245 126 158 5 29 239 80 219 86 236 193 50 7 31 6 84 188 5 215 175 213 222 4 180 144 7 187 162 205 215 60 144 120 75 195 66 8 178 81 212 56 123 177 189 113 101 91 9 211 194 48 171 17 64 197 118 148 24 10 32 67 114 171 26 131 19 149 121 32 11 235 112 114 45 28 80 37 142 138 15 12 229 228 155 214 66 246 174 195 224 215 13 116 233 106 209 66 233 175 229 244 245 14 74 81 136 163 100 21 114 240 48 184 15 124 151 145 74 34 33 14 70 132 37 16 82 253 70 97 72 20 106 41 162 30 17 136 18 105 227 219 232 121 49 119 218 18 6 97 193 180 228 204 92 158 116 222 19 145 91 34 200 199 235 178 116 103 196 20 79 104 90 22 69 212 91 65 171 133 21 92 208 76 127 37 83 92 140 27 249 22 229 22 132 205 5 67 203 8 196 141 23 136 80 68 156 228 38 254 97 170 179 24 43 152 124 172 91 52 79 94 248 131 25 202 82 36 41 11 229 As explained at the web site, that key is expanded to an 8192 byte key and used as described therein. www.netprivacy.com In order for those few who have not had the opportunity to check it out, we will leave it up another week and then take it down and put up a new shorter one, maybe a 2,560,000 byte one permanently and a monthly 2,560,000 byte one where we publish the key each month. Of course, no university, coderpunk, or cypherpunk, or any collection of same, has broken the system, nor will they ever. As most of you now know, it is absolutely unbreakable. We have had over 100 universities, IBM, Microsoft, Intel, hundreds of other corporations, several dozen different government agencies, and thousands of other individuals to download the data and look at the algorithm. Of course, like everyone else, they have been benighted, even if some of them will not own up to it. Several people have requested me to provide a narrative description of the algorithm explaining why the raw encryptor output stream seems to be so remarkably random. I am preparing such a document and it should be ready next week, or the week after. I will post it accordingly. Thanks so very much, Don Wood

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Worrying...
by Benjamin Grosman 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Isn't it worrying that so many people can happily devote their time to trying to annoy others?

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Re: [REBUTTAL] Censorship on cypherpunks?, from The Netly News
by Richard Charles Graves 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

hyperlex(a)hol.gr ("George A. Stathis") wrote: > >>> Mr. Gilmore, and other like minded parties, might want to consider >>> what would happen if one parent company owned *all* communications >>> media. Would they they be so supportive of the ideology of ownership >>> and communciation they espouse? >> >>And just how plausible do you think this is? I believe it is next to >>impossible, unless it is the result of government regulation. > >Man you're nutts. There are very few and quite vast Media Companies >in the world, and they're on the verge of becoming monopolies. > >Even your American President is in reality a puppet of the Trilateral >Commission, who effectively also control CNN, the Washington Post, >and many many many other things all over the world. You're so naive. The Trilateral Commission is just a puppet of General Electric, the British Royal Family, the Illuminati, the Council on Foreign Relations, the Elders of Zion, the Knights Templar, the Military- Industrial Complex, the Communists, the Secret Government, Dead White Males, the Freemasons, the CIA, Scientology, and my Aunt Marge. -rich special agent, zog northwest i do not speak for the world affairs council

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Q.E.D |= Montgolfiering + Inbongis + Fermented Pear Juice
by wichita＠cyberstation.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Fermented Pear Juice == Supercilious Pap There they go again, the imperium, or so they think, of cryptographic shamans are trying to bamboozle list readers into believing their warped cryptographic gimcrackery. They do not need Zadoc to anoint themselves the Solomons of the cryptographic world. They think that they are perfectly capable of doing it to themselves. Have they ever cracked a single meaningful cryptographic system? Have they ever implemented a significant cryptographic system? Of course, I am not speaking of Dr. Ron Rivest and other rightfully honored members, but rather of that ragtag group of cryptographic medicine men that think they have all the answers to all the questions, that is, the small cypherlunks subset of cypherpunks/coderpunks. Despite their trifling anomalous performances, they have Napoleonically crowned themselves as the aristocracy of cryptography. They are not "au fait" august, aureate practitioners, rather "au fond", they are narcistic harlequins, "fons et origino" of their own and claque homologated mirages of autistic cryptographic fantasies. Remember, how that self appointed College of Cryptographic Cardinals cannonaded me, and you, with a fusillade of self serving avowals such as, "we do not do it for money, we do it for the public good", "it is our duty to expose snake oil salesmen", "I feel a snake oil attack coming on", "it is a public service", "we owe it to the public, to protect them against charlatans," and on and on "ad nauseam," with their silly putty rodomontades. Now that their pusillanimity has been exposed for all to see clearly, they have apparently adopted the opportune, timorous motto of "sauve qui puet." They have proved themselves to be an alliance of fainaiguers that change their tunes when called to task. How many of them want to do it for the public good, now ? How many want to expose the snake oil salesman, now? How many of them want to protect the public, now? Not one. Show me, us, one of them that is not intellectually tremulous. They leaped into the contest when they sensed blood, but now they realize that it is their blood to be spilled, they shirk from their intellectual responsibilities. All of the Sir Galihads and Sir Lancelots of yesterday, have proved themselves to be Sir Coward Chickens now, as everyone can plainly discern. Most of them have chosen the exeunt course and are now hiding their heads in the sand, hoping that no one will take note of them. Where are all those chivalrous cryptographic knights now? I am sure that if asked, most would reply to the effect that they are "otherwise engaged," which parses to "nonpossumus," and only the most naive could fail to recognize that. What has become of their chivalry? Quite simply, the impersonate knights have become loathly benighted. The cypherlunks, riffraff, were quick to engage in jousting over OTP logomachy because they thought that all they had to do was beat their fingers on the keyboard and cite Shannon. The neologizing of the term "Software OTP," drove them into an uncontrolled frenzy of attacks. Alas, to do so, did not tax their notional mental facilities. On the other hand, when challenged to demonstrate their cryptanalytical skills, the cypherlunks became panic stricken and in mass hysteria took flight in frightened awe of the IPG algorithm. Their knightly bravado and braggadocio were hastily jettisoned in their wild flight away and superseded by their otiose nihility. That flock of cryptographic turkeys, a.k.a. cypherlunks, flew off to their clangorous roosts. There, though the more intelligent became quiescent as circumstances dictated, the court jesters started wildly flapping their wings and gobbling out their gobbledygook in order to becloud and confuse people about the proffer of the heretic. Those clowns were, and are, trying to create the illusion that their incondite cryptographic skills are irrefutable because they say it is so, and that makes it so. I think that those cypherlunk fabulists should adopt the apropos motto, "Talk very loudly and carry a tiny turkey feather duster." Their quixotic sallies into cryptanalytics are quintessential asininities. They are not subduing great crypto dragons, or giants, or even midgets, not even windmills; they, even more than Quixote, are merely fantasizing their efficaciousness. Their only significant cryptographic artifices are locked forever within the confines of their convoluted individual and collective minds. The cypherlunk's nympholeptic calliope of reciprocal "inbongis" is indicative proof of their total capitulation in the face of the impregnable IPG algorithm. Their clannish drum beating, high fiving, and back slapping of each other is reactionary declamatory histrionics. What a tragic waste. If there was only some way to channel and divert that energy atrophy into productive causes. For example, illimitable outrage against the dissonant alliance of Freeh and Saddam Hussein in trying to prevent their citizenry from having unbreakable encryption technologies. Gore and Rashanjanti are also advocating similar polices with respect to encryption restrictions. We must recognize that Gore, Reno, Freeh, Exon, and others similarly situated believe they are doing what is right. The fact though is, that by so doing they are becoming welcome allies of Hussein, Qadaffi, Rashanjanti, Castro and other human rights oppressors. That is a red flag if there was ever one. It raises the irreconcilable question of how can both groups in such an unseemly alliance be right. Obviously they cannot. Accordingly, that existential incongruence succinctly points out the dichotomous character of the question of whether or not unbreakable encryption technologies should be made openly available to everyone. In reality, the question though is not even close. While granted that there may be some criminals and terrorists who will pervert the use of encrypted communications, the number is extremely small because most such malefactors are far too ignorant and in too much of a hurry. If we spent a fraction of the saved money on openly bribing accomplices, far better emanations would be forthcoming. Furthermore, even if unbreakable encryption systems were allowed, law enforcement would still have an immense arsenal, existing and developing, of far more efficacious technological weapons available to them. Cryptanalytics has become the tiny tail that continues to wag the immense dog of intelligence gathering. A few powerful oligarchs are screaming "the sky is falling, the sky is falling," in order to protect their "Hillistic" empires. Wake up, the sky is not falling, and it is not going to fall anytime soon. Oh, those all powerful empire builders think they are doing what is proper and prudent for our country and its people, but they are absolutely wrong. The good far outweighs the bad on the balance scales. We desperately need unbreakable encryption technologies to aid and abet freedom fighters against tyranny around the world, and that is the reason that Hussein, Castro, Rashanjanti, and others of that persuasion are opposed to unbreakable encryption systems. We also need it in order to make it possible for individuals to protect their privacy in the onrushing information age. We also need it to so that businesses can protect their proprietary and other vital interests when essentially everything goes online. Unbreakable encryption will also insure for all people that governments do not wantonly intrude into their lives. To paraphrase FDR, "the only thing that we have to fear about unbreakable encryption systems, is the misplaced fear that it will do more harm than good." If the Internet and the Information Age are to achieve their potential to build us a better world, then unbreakable encryption technologies must be one of the irreplaceable cornerstones on which such a future can be built. We, who favor the advancement of the view that I am advocating, will not win by adhering to reactionary defensive tactics. We must go on the offensive. We need to bombard our Representatives and Senators with e-mail questioning why Castro, Freeh, Gore, Hussein, Qadaffi, Rashanjanti, Reno, Sung, Jr. and others that disagree about almost everything else are allies with respect to denying the public the use of unbreakable encryption technologies. Also, ask them, how are we ever going to be able to address the privacy issues in the information age without such encryption systems. Additionally, tell them about how we are handing over a multi-billion dollar market to foreign competitors because of the ITAR export ban, billions of dollars a year now and growing. We can win this affray because we are obviously in the right but we must become much more proactive by making everyone aware of all of the good things that will accrue to our human species by doing what we are advocating, That is the only real way to effectively combat those who mistakenly are taking the myopic view that we should not do it because it will help the criminals and terrorists. Guns and explosives help maleficence elements too, but we do not outlaw them because they serve other very useful purposes, and the same thing is obviously true with with respect to unbreakable encryption technologies. Back to the IPG system, we believe that you would like to know that commencing this date, IPG is advertising as follows: "In addition to posting the algorithm(s) at our web site: http://www.netprivacy.com IPG has also posted the algorithm(s) to a number of other sites, including Universities in the United States and Canada, as well as the famed Cypherpunks and Coderpunks lists. Since the IPG algorithm is impregnable, obviously no individual, or collection of individuals, from said Universities, the Cypherpunks, or the Coderpunks has been able to crack the system. Of course, this inability to do the impossible applies not only to the present but for all time, for all eternity." Of course what we are saying is obviously true, and we thought you might want to know. Thanks so very much, Don Wood

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Re: PGP3.0 & ElGamal
by Gary Howland 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> At 10:43 pm -0500 11/13/96, Lucky Green wrote: > >I agree. Support for soon to be patent free algrithms is a good thing. I > >hope that in version 4.0, after the users had time to migrate to > >DSS/ElGamal, PGP will fully move away from RSA. > > Speaking of patent-free, :-), can you do blind signatures without RSA? I think it is possible using the both Diffie-Hellman and the RPK algorithm (developed by the New Zealand chap quite recently), although patents probably apply to the latter algorithm. Don't forget that for ecash style systems, only the *client* needs to do the blinding, not the bank. Gary -- "Of course the US Constitution isn't perfect; but it's a lot better than what we have now." -- Unknown. pub 1024/C001D00D 1996/01/22 Gary Howland <gary(a)systemics.com> Key fingerprint = 0C FB 60 61 4D 3B 24 7D 1C 89 1D BE 1F EE 09 06

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No Subject
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Declan, Cypherpunks does not seem to me to be anything like the well- regulated lists you ascribe to Prof Volokh. Could you, with Professor Volokh, expand on the application of "editorial control" on "unmoderated" lists? (See Netly below) As well as amplify "the power to kick folks off a list ... if conversation veers too far from the list's charter." (See your quote below) Isn't this power the black heart of free speech racketeering? And what makes the glands of secret authoritarians thrill with benevolent suppression of assent on behalf of the disorderly, fuzzy-minded citizenry? Media moguls and list runners share commonalities, to be sure, but I wonder if it's not cruel to compare John Gilmore to Professsor Volokh, and both to, say, Rupert Murdoch. -------- [Netly News] Eugene Volokh, a law professor at UCLA, runs a number of mailing lists and has kicked people off to maintain better editorial control. Volokh says that the most valuable publications are those that exercise the highest degree of editorial control. [Your post of 11-13] In my experience, and I've talked about this at some length with Prof. Volokh who runs a number of lists himself, the best and most valuable discussion lists are those that are unmoderated but have a list owner who has the power to kick folks off a list and can try to steer the direction of a conversation if it veers too far from the list's charter.

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RE: Down-Under Bounce Attack halted
by Mullen Patrick 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Please excuse me for my ignorance, but... What is a "bounce attack"? I only know of mail bouncing, and I don't see a way of making an "attack" out of such an occurrance... ??? Thanks! PM _______________________________________________________________________________ From: wb8foz(a)nrk.com on Thu, Nov 14, 1996 1:10 Subject: Down-Under Bounce Attack halted To: Cypherpunks The postmaster of that AU site running the bounce attack assures me he has been able to vanquish the daemon running the box in question; despite the fact he did not even know it was there ;-} [Don't ask..] -- A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz(a)nrk.com & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433 ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ Received: by mail.ndhm.gtegsc.com with SMTP;14 Nov 1996 01:10:21 -0400 Received: from toad.com by delphi.ndhm.gtegsc.com with SMTP; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 6:06:00 GMT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA09977 for cypherpunks-outgoing; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 15:56:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from wauug.erols.com (wauug.erols.com [205.252.116.240]) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA09962 for <cypherpunks(a)toad.com>; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 15:56:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from wb8foz@localhost) by wauug.erols.com (8.8.2/8.7.3) id SAA31763; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 18:56:30 -0500 From: "David Lesher / hated by RBOC's in 5 states" <wb8foz(a)wauug.erols.com> Message-Id: <199611132356.SAA31763(a)wauug.erols.com> Subject: Down-Under Bounce Attack halted To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com (Cypherpunks) Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 18:56:30 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: wb8foz(a)nrk.com Organization: NRK Research X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com Precedence: bulk

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Censor John Gilmore -- EFF is a disgrace!
by aga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Wed, 13 Nov 1996, Declan McCullagh wrote: > Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 13:12:50 -0800 (PST) > From: Declan McCullagh <declan(a)well.com> > Reply-To: freedom-knights(a)jetcafe.org > To: Dave Hayes <dave(a)kachina.jetcafe.org> > Cc: freedom-knights(a)jetcafe.org, cypherpunks(a)toad.com > Subject: Re: [REBUTTAL] Censorship on cypherpunks?, from The Netly News > > I am amused. I gave Dave Hayes about an 8.5 out of 10 on the scale of > meaningless political rants. > Jealousy rears it's ugly head. You just wish you had the credibility that Dave Hayes has. > I'll address some of his points. > Do it within his text as you are supposed to. > * "Political safety?" I stand by my record as a writer. Check out > http://www.eff.org/pub/Publications/Declan_McCullagh/ for some of my > recent articles. Political safety? Hardly. > This Declan_McCullagh is a long-time cabal.member, so his critique of a Freedom-Knight like Dave Hayes is to be given short shrift. > * Dave says "Notice that the net is compared to a home or private club." > Wrong. I never compared the Net to such. However, a mailing list run on a > computer in someone's home with his own cash is very similar to a private > club. There are private speech restrictions on the Net. Gated communities > exist. Try to join the "lawprofs" mailing list. You can't; you're not > (and quite obviously anything but) a law professor. Censorship? Not quite. > None of that analogy is applicable to the cyberpunks list. When a list gets as big as that, it it no longer to be considered a "mailing-list" but it is a _public_ forum. The whole problem here is the abuse of power by both the EFF and John Gilmore. > * Contrary to what you seem to be asserting, Gilmore hasn't blocked Vulis > from posting. > > * Dave warns us to consider "what would happen if one parent company owned > *all* communications media." Then we have problems. I've written about > this in an Internet Underground magazine column. However, this is not the > case now. Or are you arguing the government should get involved and force > Gilmore to allow Vulis on his list? > No, he is saying that people can use an e-mail filter and not listen to Vulis if they want to. It was a very simple thing; are you too uneducated to know how to use an e-mail filter? > By the way, if you haven't figured it out yet, Mr. "Freedom Knight of > Usenet," a private mailing list is NOT Usenet. Get a clue. > Wrong! The cyberpunks mailing list is PUBLIC property and should NOT be controlled by John Gilmore! This just goes to show the real facist censorship motives that the EFF has behind it. Time to kill the EFF, and let it rot in hell. They are disgrace to the entire InterNet community. I run 6 different mailing lists, and have NEVER puled the plug on anyone, even when they criticize me. The first time is the time when you lose all credibility, and there is never any forgiveness for a plug-puller. > -Declan > -aga.admin InterNet Freedom Council > > > > > > On Wed, 13 Nov 1996, Dave Hayes wrote: > > > [This is a rebuttal to a misguided news article.] > > > > > Cypher-Censored > > > By Declan McCullagh (declan(a)well.com) > > > > Thank you for leaving your email address. It makes this easier. > > > > You people (read: the unaware and hypnotized masses, which includes > > reporters who's desire for attention and political safety holds them > > in line with the consensual illusion) keep missing the real issue, and > > substituting issues which only hold themselves in place. > > > > [Those of you who know, please excuse the mediaistic terms used in > > this rebuttal. One must use the symbols one is given to communicate > > at the level of understanding of those who use them.] > > > > > Thus began a debate over what the concept of censorship means in a > > > forum devoted to opposing it. Did Gilmore have the right to show Vulis > > > the virtual door? Or should he have let the ad hominem attacks > > > continue, encouraging people to set their filters accordingly? The > > > incident raises deeper questions about how a virtual community can > > > prevent one person from ruining the forum for all and whether only > > > government controls on expression can be called "censorship." > > > > "Cyberspace" is interacted with using tools under the control of the > > interactor. > > yes, and all you need is a simple mail filter. > > In person-to-person interaction, one's only real defense against what > > one decides to call "unwanted" is to remove oneself from the arena of > > interaction. It may not be possible to ignore or run away from certain > > sources of input. > > > > In cyberspace, however, it is not only possible but necessary and even > > desirable. Cyberspace allows one to interact with many more people > > then can fit in any given physical space. One simply -cannot- receive > > input from 2000 people and not employ some sort of filtering > > mechanism. Indeed, cyberspace has many buttons and switches (and even > > programmatic filters) which allow one to -completely- control whom one > > interacts with. > > > > Logically, we must conclude that those who frequently and repeatedly > > cry for the censorship or removal of any source of input from > > cyberspace are either: > > > > -quite clueless about the tools at their disposal > > -ideologically or personally opposed to the source of input > > or -in need of large amounts of attention from others > > > > Cluelessness can be overcome by appropriate teaching and interest in > > learning (the latter issue we can safely assume users of popular but > > ineffectual windowing OSes are not able to overcome). Such > > cluelessness, however, is not and should never be a reason for > > censorship. > > > > A need for attention can be overcome by refraining from the denial > > that the need exists, followed by careful observation of that need. > > More can be said on this, but this is not the forum. Such a need > > is not and should never be a reason for censorship. > > > > Idelological opposition is another matter entirely. To understand this > > better, we'll need to observe this in action. Here is an example: > > > > > Vulis portrays himself as a victim, but as I posted to the list > > > last week, I disagree. Anyone who's spent any time on the > > > 100-plus-messages-a-day list can read for themselves the kind of nasty > > > daily messages that came from Vulis's keyboard. > > > > "Nasty" is, of course, by this reporter's standard of "nasty". Granted > > this standard may in fact be shared by Mr. Gilmore, however a shared > > standard is not necessarily an appropriate or correct standard. > > > > > The list is on Gilmore's machine and he can do what he wants with > > > it; he can moderate the postings, he can censor material, he can > > > shut the whole thing down. By kicking off an offending user, a > > > list owner merely exercises his property right. There's no > > > government involvement, so the First Amendment doesn't apply. And > > > the deleted, disgruntled user is free to start his own mailing > > > list with different rules. > > > > Notice how, once the opposition is admitted to, the rationalization > > begins. Suddenly this is not a matter of censorship, but of ownership. > > Just as suddenly, the classic anti-free-speech arguments of "if you > > don't like it, start yer own" begin to surface. (Anyone ever notice > > how this resembles the "love it or leave it" mentality of certain > > American patriotic organizations?) > > > > What would ideological opposition be without the attempt at analogy? > > Here we witness another example: > > > > > But then the question is whether Gilmore should have exercised > > > that right, especially in such an open forum. Again, I think Gilmore's > > > actions were justified. Consider inviting someone into your home or > > > private club. If your guest is a boor, you might ask him to leave. If > > > your guest is an slobbish drunk of a boor, you have a responsibility > > > to require him to leave before he ruins the evening of others. > > > > Notice that the net is compared to a home or private club. Actually > > the net is neither, however that would not serve the purposes of this > > analogy, so this fact is convienently forgotton. > > > > The net is a wonderful place. Any ideology, no matter who disagrees or > > agrees with it, can be expressed and discussed here...assuming those > > who oppose this ideology do not have their way with the source of > > expression. There is a more refined and deeper truth to be found > > in the very existence of the set of all human ideologies, which is > > just beginning to show itself to some netizens. Unfortunately, this > > truth can be ruined when people equate some notion of value to > > sources which ignore all but a tiny subset of the set of all ideologies: > > > > > Eugene Volokh, a law professor at UCLA, runs a number of mailing > > > lists and has kicked people off to maintain better editorial control. > > > Volokh says that the most valuable publications are those that > > > exercise the highest degree of editorial control. > > > > Value to whom and for what? If the editorial control produces one > > small element of the set of all ideologies, then this is only of value > > to the people who support this ideology. Given that the set of > > people who support an issue is smaller than the set of people > > who support and oppose an issue, would the value not increase > > by allowing both sides of an issue equal speaking time? > > > > > For his part, Gilmore calls removing the Russian mathematician "an > > > act of leadership." He says: "It said we've all been putting up with > > > this guy and it's time to stop. You're not welcome here... It seemed > > > to me that a lot of the posts on cypherpunks were missing the mark. > > > They seemed to have an idea that their ability to speak through my > > > machine was guaranteed by the Constitution." > > > > It is sad to note that this is the leader of one of America's > > forerunning organizations of freedom who says these words. For all > > *his* ideology of free speech, this statement reveals the hypocrasy he > > lives with for all to see. The true litmus test of free speech is to > > encounter speech that you *want* to censor. > > > > Mr. Gilmore, and other like minded parties, might want to consider > > what would happen if one parent company owned *all* communications > > media. Would they they be so supportive of the ideology of ownership > > and communciation they espouse? Indeed. The EFF is a disgrace to the entire InterNet. The EFF is definitely a censorship organization, and it should never be trusted again. > > ------ > > Dave Hayes - Altadena CA, USA - dave(a)jetcafe.org > > Freedom Knight of Usenet - http://www.jetcafe.org/~dave/usenet > > > > Truth (n.) - the most deadly weapon ever discovered by humanity. Capable > > of destroying entire perceptual sets, cultures, and realities. Outlawed > > by all governments everywhere. Possession is normally punishable by death. > > > > >

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One Big Telecoms Company
by Duncan Frissell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 01:12 PM 11/13/96 -0800, Declan McCullagh wrote: >* Dave warns us to consider "what would happen if one parent company owned >*all* communications media." Then we have problems. I've written about >this in an Internet Underground magazine column. However, this is not the >case now. Or are you arguing the government should get involved and force >Gilmore to allow Vulis on his list? > The risk of "one big company" owning all communications that lefties on the net spend a lot of time worrying about is a real screamer. We had "one big company" controlling telecoms in most countries on earth for the last 100 years (those were the government monopoly PTTs). In spite of the fact that those PTTs were protected from competition by everything up to and including (at least in the case of BT and France Telecom) nuclear weapons, they lost their monopolies. Two days ago, the UK announced that they were granting licenses to all 46 companies that have applied to carry bits into and out of the UK. DT is being sold off starting in January. If government monopolies can't hack it, what chance do private companies have? DCF

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Re: "Freedom Knights" are closet censors
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

What is "censoring other people's censorship?" Say I argue in favor of the CDA. Would you censor me then? Why not? Isn't this censoring others censorship? I wonder why the so-called "Freedom Knights" are so insecure in their beliefs that they will not tolerate a dissenting voice on their mailing list. (Let's forget for the moment that my point in subscribing was to disrupt it. That's not the point, is it? "More speech, more speech!") -Declan Founder, Boycott Freedom Knights society, Washington, DC chapter On Wed, 13 Nov 1996, Dave Hayes wrote: > > The so-called "Freedom Knights" have censored me from their mailing list. > > Dave Hayes refuses to let me subscribe and read and contribute to the > > discussions there. Why? Simply because he doesn't like what I have to say. > > I might criticize him. Truly, censorship says more about the censor than > > the censored. > > Notice that I now have you arguing -my- side of the argument. Are you > so easily controlled? Have you asked yourself why you are that way? > > > John Gilmore, on the other hand, has been much more tolerant. He allows > > anyone to subscribe to cypherpunks and only kicked one person off after > > months of ranting and off-topic drivel. > > An ineffective move with symbolic complications that affect no one but > him. Why do you support this? > > > And I wonder why the Freedom Knights want to censor certain newsgroups. As > > in their FAQ, where they condemn speech they don't like on the alt.cancel > > and alt.nocem newsgroups and advise operators not to carry such > > groups. > > Ah, you finally got the newsgroups right. Good. > > I censor other people's censorship. That is what I do. Call me a > censor if you will, but if you were truly in support of free speech > you would understand. Since you don't, your cry of wolf demonstrates > the depth of your consideration of the subject matter. > > > I think it's time to lift the veil from this public Net-menace! > > Knock ya-self out. > > > Founder, Boycott Freedom Knights society, Washington, DC chapter > > You -do- realize, of course, that you have to organize the people > and create a large group of opposers to my cause. > > That is your destiny. Carry it out. > ------ > Dave Hayes - Altadena CA, USA - dave(a)jetcafe.org > Freedom Knight of Usenet - http://www.jetcafe.org/~dave/usenet > > Nasrudin arrived at an all-comers horse race mounted on the slowest of oxen. > Everyone laughed, an ox cannot run. > "But I have seen it, when it was only a calf, running faster than a horse.", > said Nasrudin. "So why should it not run faster, now that it is larger?" > > >

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Re: Secrecy: My life as a nym. (Was: nym blown?)
by Sean Roach 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 05:22 PM 11/13/96 GMT, Adam Back wrote: ... >Nym sues nym. I think not. An alternate view of slander law suits is >as a way to encourage the use of Nyms. Certainly the dissenters of >the unnamed pseudo religious have learnt the value of nyms, remailers >and so forth. There are distinct advantages to nyms. ... They learned the value all right. Right up to the time that one of the founding remailers disclosed thier return addresses to save the rest of the hard drive. There are definate advantages to TRULY anonymous remailers too. Ones where the return address is not stored. For mailing lists and newsgroups, where you are going to get conformation on your post when its relayed to you, why do you need the return address anyway? Someone inside the group uses a remailer, just post your comments to the list, that person will most likely see it there. I assume that these already exist somewhere.

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RE: Remailer Abuse Solutions
by Sean Roach 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 01:32 PM 11/13/96 -0800, Lucky Green wrote: >On Wed, 13 Nov 1996, Peter Hendrickson wrote: > >> At 10:34 AM 11/13/1996, Mullen Patrick wrote: >> > Also, >> > what happens when your long-lost friend comes across your addy and tries to >> > email you? Surely you don't want to charge postage for an otherwise free >> > service to him/er. Maintaining a list of "accepted sources" would be a hassle >> > not many people would accept. >> >> Absent highly intrusive global net monitoring techniques, that's what they >> are going to have to do anyway. E-mail is inexpensive. The advertiser >> can justify the expense even if generates a small number of leads. Expect >> more spam. > >There is a very simple way of dealing with your long lost friend. And any >other person not on your "free" list. If you find their email worth your >while, you can always give them their money back. For future contact, you >can move your friend on the "free" list. > >Frankly, I don't think there is anybody new that I care to communicate with >who wouln't be willing to make a small deposit for initiating communications. > >-- Lucky Green <mailto:shamrock@netcom.com> PGP encrypted mail preferred > Member JPFO. "America's Aggressive Civil Rights Organization" You might want to consider making that a price on message size, otherwise I'll just send you the contents of the Sears catalog, the Damark catalog, the full collection of the clearing house sweepstakes, and an Amway catalog at one low price. (My backers could get in on a great cut, at $1.00 a message they would each pay $.25) I would say $.50 per Kilobyte, including attachments.

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Re: Computer Security Training
by Sean Roach 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 04:44 PM 11/13/96 -0500, Paul George wrote: ... >I'd like to ask very poignant questions since this will be my second to >the last day working for Uncle Sam. (I'm going Private Industry, yeeaa!!) > >And I really don't care what my boss thinks of my questions. ;) > >Paul. > >Oh, I unsubscribed to the list, 500 emails over a long weekend is too >much. So please CC: questions to george(a)justice.usdoj.gov and I will >forward all answers to the list. Thanks a bunch.... ... First of all, do you need references? Your boss would probably be the best one, unless you destroy h[is,er] faith in you. Second, when would they fire you anyway? Two th three weeks later? After your grace period expired? By then you should already be out of your office. Unless you need the course for your free enterprize work. If not, you could impress your boss, (and possibly get a few extra government contracts down the line), by volunteering to stay at your desk as you won't need the material for your employment. The above was made under the assumption that your branch occasionaly "outsources" projects or calls on private consultants when it needs extra hands (minds).

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