December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

[NOISE] Statists get to make choices, too.
by nobody＠replay.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dr. Dimitri Vulis KOTM writes: >There is no place on the 'net safe for the Usenet Cabal or the fucking statists >who call themselves "libertarians". Oh, sure there is. The Misguided Cabal Dupes [tm] have decided they prefer the relative order of the current system to the chaos of a disbarred lawyer's vision. News admins have simply taken extra steps to make sure that their services won't be disrupted by a few individuals who style themselves the "Usenet Freedom Knights." I'm sure the Fucking Statists have taken similar steps. Your right to rant doesn't override my right to ignore you. Isn't that really what this country's supposed to be about? The right to be left alone?

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yet ANOTHER "Internet == child porn "story.
by I=(!isnum(self)) 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Again on today's CBS all-news stn. An elementary school teacher arrested for exchanging, or whatever, kiddieporn on the Internet. The reporter was duly dramatic and ominous sounding. Damn I wish I knew how many kiddie porners were doing their whatver OFF the 'net. Maybe, my fine friends, we're catching MORE o' them because they are on the net and clueless, rather than in back alleys and hard to find. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Recommended reading: "Manufacture of Consent", Noam Chomsky. Altho I hate much of his politics, that one's right on.

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Church of Scientology
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Scuttlebut is, CoS rolled over on some pesky ultra-right-wingers as a favor to Morris Dees and various scumbag associates. For this, CoS got their long-awaited (40-plus years!) federal tax-free status. This status is big cash, so naturally, interested parties wanted to know under what rules did CoS get their tax-free gift, since long-standing high court decisions laid out the profit-making business plan of CoS in no uncertain terms, explicit and detailed. Problem is, nobody was able to get the details of the policy change - did CoS change their business plan, or did the fed change their rules?

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FW: Re: talker
by Blake Wehlage 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>Return-Path: <doom13(a)juno.com> >To: jwilk(a)iglou.com >Subject: Re: talker >References: <m0uzcEf-000bPKC(a)relay.iglou.com> >X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-5 >From: doom13(a)juno.com (Floyd W Odom) >Date: Sun, 08 Sep 1996 10:56:43 EDT Check this out guys & gals > >Hey Blake cyphering sucks. You want to live on the like us? I went to >jail for jackin the westroads. And I still got away wit some shit. > > > >Doom13 > > ========================================== Blake Wehlage <jwilk(a)iglou.com> ±» RëVðLû¡ØÑ Bø+ ©ÖmP@ñ¥ «± Goto: http://members.iglou.com/jwilk

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Re: Encourage Singapore To Come Out Of the Stone Age
by James A. Donald 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 12:39 PM 9/3/96 +0800, Enzo Michelangeli wrote: > The idea that rights and values can be "natural" is contradicted by > several thousand years of history, during which absolutism or downright > tyranny have been well more common than freedom. The existence of foot binding in China is not evidence that women's feet have no particular natural shape. > The success of that misleading view in America, and by extension in most > of the western countries, is largely due to the unfortunate influence of > [...] When one engineers bridge, designed according to one theory of materials physics, stands up, and another engineers bridge, designed according to a different theory of material physics, falls down, does that not suggest that the first engineer knows what he is talking about, and the second engineer does not? > In the real world, freedom is a by-product of a materially prosperous > society (which is why capitalism generally produces free societies, but > socialism does not). First, you have this completely the wrong way around: Prosperity is the product of a free society. For example when the Dutch revolted from Spain, they were at first poorer than spain. Secondly there is ample counter evidence: For example in America before the european conquest, some Indian societies were extremely free and others, such as the Incas, had institutions very similar to modern totalitarianism, yet their material level was very different to today's, and not very different from each others. Again the Germanic tribes that conquered England had very high levels of liberty, yet were terribly poor, and the Icelanders of Saga period Iceland were very free, yet very poor. > Trying to build a free society by screaming loud > what the "natural" rights are supposed to be, has no better chances of > success than [...] Succeeded the last two times it was tried. --------------------------------------------------------------------- | We have the right to defend ourselves | http://www.jim.com/jamesd/ and our property, because of the kind | of animals that we are. True law | James A. Donald derives from this right, not from the | arbitrary power of the state. | jamesd(a)echeque.com

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Re: TWA 800 - Friendly Fire?
by Stephen Cobb 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> >-Millie >sfuze(a)tiac.net > >"What we have here is a FAILURE to COMMUNICATE" (some song) > Actually some movie, Cool Hand Luke, Paul Newman. The WAV file is around here somewhere. s.

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Re: What the NSA is patenting
by paul＠fatmans.demon.co.uk 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>The NSA STM method is related to reading _very subtle_ variations in >magnetic domain modifications. Jitter in read-write head positions can be >thought of as a noise (N) added to some signal (S)l. > Extraction of signals >in low S/N ration environments is a well-developed science. As anyone who has ever subscribed to alt.sex will know ;-) Datacomms Technologies web authoring and data security Paul Bradley, Paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk Http://www.fatmans.demon.co.uk/crypt/ "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey" -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6 mQCNAjH9j+cAAAEEAMBvREiQR0ot9dFCO0TiSCSunAYLv2g1Bc6I3bz8FzKXNH53 6mieJf/W4rD+CxJpT0q9RQaaoRtkHJLwbjfK2il3D7mEahMAyqvF/xRJNqkXfhM3 sRJM0Jh43l+W0M5vwokbEbk25/bxWWGspTsLD3YHbzKnG6pOcL5OPIRbv66xAAUR tCdQYXVsIEJyYWRsZXkgPHBhdWxAZmF0bWFucy5kZW1vbi5jby51az4= =riHc -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

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Re: Church of Scientology
by Jim Byrd 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 07:44 AM 9/8/96 -0700, Dale Thorn <dthorn(a)gte.net> wrote: >Scuttlebut is, CoS rolled over on some pesky ultra-right-wingers as a >favor to Morris Dees and various scumbag associates. For this, CoS got >their long-awaited (40-plus years!) federal tax-free status. > >This status is big cash, so naturally, interested parties wanted to know >under what rules did CoS get their tax-free gift, since long-standing >high court decisions laid out the profit-making business plan of CoS in >no uncertain terms, explicit and detailed. > >Problem is, nobody was able to get the details of the policy change - >did CoS change their business plan, or did the fed change their rules? This is exactly the subject of a lawsuit by Tax Analysts, Inc. against the IRS. This is still in progress. The cult is not a party to this suit, so they can't bring their lawyers into this one.

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Thank you
by Askbill Questions 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Thank you for your email. I appreciate you taking the time to write to me. As you can probably imagine, I receive hundreds of messages from outside of Microsoft each day. While I love to read people's views and share ideas about technology, unfortunately, I am not able to answer each and every inquiry. Instead, I'll be responding to some of your questions in my column. The second column each month will be dedicated to answering questions from readers like you, so keep reading and I'll do my best to address the topics that are of interest to readers worldwide. I also invite you to check out the Microsoft website at http://www.microsoft.com/corpinfo where you can find all of the columns, as well as lots of additional fun and useful information. Thank you for your continued support of Microsoft and our products and best of luck with all your endeavors, Bill Gates

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9yrold
by doom13＠juno.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Does anyone out there know any kids mailing lists, because my little brother Richard just joined and he doesn't have anything to mail to he's only 9 years old. floyd odom

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Re: PRESS RELEASE: GERMANY CENSORS DUTCH WEBSITE WWW.XS4ALL.NL
by jfricker＠vertexgroup.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 03:24 AM 9/6/96 -0700, you wrote: > >* wouldn't it be deliciously ironic if the "Free Speech Blue Ribbon" now >attached to so many pages were to be joined by a "Star of David"? This Star >of David symbol could mean "We support freedom to read, and our site >contains the "Radikal" publication which Germans are forbidden to access." > Well I think the Star of David has so many meanings that the message may get muddled. Seems like busy sites can support the mirror of their choice by putting a note such as "This is a Radikal site". The "mispelling" is the medium. >(I know nothing of how such symbolic campaigns are actually launched and >managed, so I'm suggesting the hint of an idea. I do think mirroring the >banned publication (_any_ banned publication, by _any_ government) on as >many sites as possible is a Good Idea.) > Tell two people. Put up a mirror. Add a link on a busy page. Did I miss anything? --j http://206.101.74.42 is a Radikal site

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Cypherpunks subscribers - Singapore and NZ gvts, plus IRS
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I suppose it would be only polite to ask the Singapore government folks and IRS employees to join our conversation. The cypherpunks list now has nearly 1,400 direct subscribers, plus whoever reads it through local mail-news gateways. (Note I'm not indicating that a .gov.sg or .irs.gov address implies anything about an individual's personal political beliefs.) -Declan // declan(a)eff.org // I do not represent the EFF // declan(a)well.com // video(a)nhmxw0.fnal.gov e875836(a)popcorn.llnl.gov foley_p(a)kosmos.wcc.govt.nz cypherpunks(a)cheetah.llnl.gov cypherpunks(a)citec.qld.gov.au kwans(a)nii.ncb.gov.sg sklim(a)nii.ncb.gov.sg cypherpunks-x(a)nasirc.hq.nasa.gov rromine(a)nsf.gov peter(a)nii.ncb.gov.sg kfall(a)ee.lbl.gov timb(a)defcen.gov.au marty.burkhouse(a)ccmail.irs.gov peterb(a)lanl.gov cypherpunks-2localnews(a)mailhost.dpie.gov.au stevek(a)telchar.jpl.nasa.gov il1(a)ornl.gov walters(a)snad.ncsl.nist.gov bgamble(a)wo0033wp.wo.blm.gov "Bruce C. Dovala" <bdovala(a)solaria.mil.wi.us> kmigoe(a)orion.ncsc.mil kda36(a)naic.wpafb.af.mil mengertc(a)seoul-1sig.korea.army.mil tut(a)ncr.disa.mil holmesb(a)rl.af.mil serverb(a)mqg-smtp3.usmc.mil sezgin(a)tsk.mil.tr halland(a)hq.hqusareur.army.mil

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Denver Physical Cypherpunks Meeting?
by Jeff Davis 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Anyone in the front range interested in a physical meeting? Majordomo's Net Cafe at 1401 Ogden is a natural. Let me know. I'm teaching some fundamental crypto classes there next month, and it's never a bad idea to get our heads together on effecting the passage of Pro Code and SAFE. -- According to John Perry Barlow: *What is EFF?* "Jeff Davis is a truly gifted trouble-maker." *email <info(a)eff.org>* *** O U T L A W S On The E L E C T R O N I C F R O N T I E R **** US Out Of Cyberspace!!! Join EFF Today! *email <membership(a)eff.org>*

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John Locke on True Names
by blanc 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

9. But it will be here said that, if _moral knowledge_ be placed in the contemplation of our own _moral ideas_, and those, as other modes, be of our own making, what strange notions will there be of _justice_ and _temperance_? What confusion of virtues and vices, if everyone may make what _ideas_ of them he pleases? No confusion or disorder in the things themselves, nor the reasonings about them; no more than (in mathematics) there would be a disturbance in the demonstration, or a change in the properties of figures and their relations one to another, if a man should make a triangle with four corners, or a _trapezium_ with four right angles: that is in plain _English_, change the names of the figures and call that by one name which mathematicians called ordinarily by another. For let a man make to himself the _idea_ of a figure with three angles whereof one is a right one, and call it, if he please, _equilaterum_ or _trapezium_ or anything else, the properties of and demonstrations about that _idea_ will be the same as if he called it a _rectangular-triangle_. I confess, the change of the name, by the impropriety of speech, will at first disturb him who knows not what _idea_ it stands for; but as soon as the figure is drawn, the consequences and demonstrations are plain and clear. Just the same is it in _moral knowledge_: let a man have the _idea_ of taking from others, without their consent, what their honest industry has possessed them of, and call this _justice_ if he please. He that takes the name here without the _idea_ put to it will be mistaken, by joining another _idea_ of his own to that name; but strip the _idea_ of that name or take it such as it is in the speaker's mind, and the same things will agree to it as if you called it _injustice_. Indeed, wrong names in moral discourses breed usually more disorder, because they are not so easily rectified as in mathematics, where the figure once drawn and seen makes the name useless and of no force. For what need of a sign, when the thing signified is present and in view? But in moral names, that cannot be so easily and shortly done, because of the many decompositions that go to the making up of the complex _ideas_ of those modes. But yet for all this, the _miscalling_ of any of those _ideas_, contrary to the usual signification of the words of that language, hinders not but that we may have certain and demonstrative knowledge of their several agreements and disagreements, if we will carefully, as in mathematics, keep to the same precise _ideas_ and trace them in their several relations one to another, without being led away by their names. If we but separate the _idea_ under consideration from the sign that stands for it, our knowledge goes equally on in the discovery of real truth and certainty, whatever sounds we make use of. ~ An Essay Concerning Human Understanding Chapter IV: Of the Reality of Knowledge

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Re: Kiddie porn on the Internet
by Blak Dayz 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I believe that you have a valid p.o.v on this subject on that: 1. The Save Our Children, kill the kiddie porn, will have trouble being enforced due to the large amounts of encryption and safe IRC fserves. If they really wanted to enforce the Kill The Porn, then they should target the adults by child pyschologist visits with the children during school hours. 2. The suspicion of the private organization "extortion" has valid backing in that several coincidences have occured such as the one with Dennys. If a person would research the matter further they would come upon several cases. *** The recievers of the porn should not be punished for the photographers action, the same as if I would complain that someone burglarized my home becuase i left the door open. It was their ignorance that caused their loss. Blak Dayz of the DAS

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Re: talker (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 8 Sep 1996 13:23:06 -0700 (PDT) > From: "Z.B." <zachb(a)netcom.com> > Subject: Re: talker > > I just checked www.juno.com to see what kind of system they have, and it > appears that it is a free email service. No charges at all. No wonder > we get so many idiots from there - free mail and they probably don't > bother to verify the people they give service to, either. Well we know at least one cpunk who is anti-anonymity.... Jim Choate >

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RE: Encourage Singapore To Come Out Of the Stone Age
by blanc 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: James A. Donald, in reply to Enzo Michelangeli: > Trying to build a free society by screaming loud > what the "natural" rights are supposed to be, has no better chances of > success than [...] Succeeded the last two times it was tried. ........................................................................................ But it was not merely "screaming" about what the "natural" rights ought to be - it was presenting a more definite and clear picture of them to the mind of the beholders (who hardly had any such ideas in their mind), as well as backing up the description of these rights with the intent to secure them through physical force, if necessary (as one might expect). Screaming aloud about having "natural" rights and then sitting back and waiting for them to be recognized stands little or no chance of success with those who are obviously unsympathetic and are in a position of power over others. Knowing what one is talking about, being able to convey it with the conviction of certainty, and being prepared to act to secure what it is "rightful" to have, is more likely to achieve the noble cause. It's also more impressive (than whining). .. Blanc

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Imminent Death of the Internet, GIF at 11
by Martin Minow 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

For several months (years?) Bob Metcalf has been predicting that the Internet will self-destruct from overload. His argument appears to follow one of Gordon Bell's maxims: "anyone can predict the future: all you need is semi-log paper and a ruler." As I understand it, Metcalf's argument is that network load (messages, packets) is growing exponentially, while network bandwidth (fiber capacity, switch performance) is growing linearly. At some point, these two curves cross -- and demand will exceed capacity. There are two solutions to this problem: either there will be a fundamental change in the way messages move on the Internet (i.e. they don't all have to pass through Mae East and/or Mae West) or there will be a fundamental change in the way we use the Internet. We certainly are seeing changes in the way we use the network. When I "got on the net" in the late 1970's, I was on two mailing lists (SF-Lovers and Human Net) and could read *all* of Usenet traffic in an hour or two. In the late 1980's, Usenet traffic totalled about 10 MB/Day. Now, I'm on a handful of work-dependent, low bandwidth mailing lists, one high-bandwidth, high noise mailing list, almost never read Usenet and wouldn't dare attempt to support a Usenet newsserver. Today, it takes longer for me to read mail on an office Internet or 28.8 modem at home, than it did in 1980 on a 2400 baud modem. To make a long story short, I suspect that we will be much more selective in what we access on the net; we may hire editors (or form communities that share "interesting stuff", each person serving as one member of an informal editorial board). We will also see organizations (companies or professional societies) funding network-based publications to communicate matters of common interest. (There are a number of these already, Risks Digest being possibly the most important.) So, in one sense, Metcalf is right; the Internet will self-destruct. However, in another sense, he is wrong; the information carried on the Internet will still be distributed, but probably in a different form. Martin Minow minow(a)apple.com

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Re: Cypherpunks subscribers - Singapore and NZ gvts, plus IRS
by jya＠pipeline.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tim May, among others, often reminds that the list is wide open to all comers, from whatever domain. I'm happy to see the diverse range of domains, especially those I snoop for good alt.sex.bestiality pix, er, classified data. The sg, gov and mil sites offer best of show sexual defectives. Beloved IRS is still a bit touchy about snooping its vast sewer of exon-oddities, though, so don't leave a mess when you've finished ogling Tim's.

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Re: Photoshop, Steganograhy, and cypherpunks?
by Adamsc＠io-online.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Sun, 8 Sep 1996 16:16:58 -0400 (EDT), Jason Vagner wrote: >> > 1) If I hide some PGP encrypted data in a >> > gif, jpg or wav file will there be any tell tale >> > signs to the naked eye of an expert? If yes, >> > what are they? >> If you stego too many bits in a figure, it may become apparent. >The new version of Photoshop coming out this fall includes the ability to >embed "digital watermarking": >(from http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,3188,00.html: > > Digital watermarking > adds copyright information to > a photograph that doesn't alter the photo's > appearance. The watermark is detectable even > after the photo is edited or printed and rescanned. > >Question: Will stegonagrphying (?) the picture with noise mar the >watermark? Will a digital signature *and* something embedded into the >graphic through steganography seriosly affect a 24-bit image? Most certainly; the idea here is that watermarking should show that an image is unedited. >Furthermore: What about browsers? Could cookies or binary info be embedded >into images on the fly so that a java applet could preserve information or >states between pages, of different sites? Of course. You could do a cookie type implementation with a Java applet easily. - "'Anonymity is bad,' says a source who wishes to remain anonymous." - Nuff' said. * Home: Chris Adams <adamsc(a)io-online.com> | http://www.io-online.com/adamsc/adamsc.htp * Autoresponder: send email w/subject of "send resume" or "send PGPKEY" * Work: cadams(a)acucobol.com | V.M. (619)515-4894 | (619)689-6579 * Member in good standing of the GNU whirled hors d'oeuvre

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Re: talker
by Adamsc＠io-online.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Sat, 07 Sep 1996 20:10:50 -0700, James A. Donald wrote: >> Yup -- you're never going to see a very high SNR out of Juno: > >Yes, the anarchy list has a persistent moron from Juno.com, educated >well above his intelligence. A seriously proflic loon. > >I have told eudora to transfer everything from juno.com into my >loon file, regardless of author. Makes AOL.com look like >caltech. Particularly since AOL tends to get a lot of well-educated people who are just net-illiterate. Of course, they also get a bunch of cranks, particularly since those "Generate an AOL account" programs started going around... - "'Anonymity is bad,' says a source who wishes to remain anonymous." - Nuff' said. * Home: Chris Adams <adamsc(a)io-online.com> | http://www.io-online.com/adamsc/adamsc.htp * Autoresponder: send email w/subject of "send resume" or "send PGPKEY" * Work: cadams(a)acucobol.com | V.M. (619)515-4894 | (619)689-6579 * Member in good standing of the GNU whirled hors d'oeuvre

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Re: talker
by Adamsc＠io-online.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Sun, 08 Sep 1996 11:09:07 -0400, Wayne H. Allen wrote: >> cypherpunks are *not* crackers; this is a crytographic >> and political issues relating to cryptography mailing list. > Well maybe, political issues galore certainly, but very very little >to do with cryptography. I mean what does TWA 800 have to do with this >list. I mean lets be completely honest here, whatever the original >purpose of the list was for its been allowed to shift away from its >intended purpose considerably. True, but something like TWA800 has a lot more relevency to the "political issues" part mentioned above. A Big-Brother database being setup seems on-topic... - "'Anonymity is bad,' says a source who wishes to remain anonymous." - Nuff' said. * Home: Chris Adams <adamsc(a)io-online.com> | http://www.io-online.com/adamsc/adamsc.htp * Autoresponder: send email w/subject of "send resume" or "send PGPKEY" * Work: cadams(a)acucobol.com | V.M. (619)515-4894 | (619)689-6579 * Member in good standing of the GNU whirled hors d'oeuvre

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[NOISE] Far-reaching tentacles . . . ?
by abostick＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Found in the news: (SACRAMENTO)- The principals of six Sacramento area schools have received 46 used computers that were renovated by inmates at Folsom Prison. Warden Theo White delivered the machines after they were given a reprieve from the scrap heap. The prison obtained the donated personal computers from the non-profit Detwiler Foundation... which began working five years ago to bring new technology into the state's classrooms. [Would you want *YOUR* CHILDREN to use computers that had been HACKED by CONVICTED CRIMINALS????] -- Alan Bostick | Usenet is living proof that if you analyze a mailto:abostick@netcom.com | blackbody spectrum for semantic content you get news:alt.grelb | "Call 1-800-HOT-GIRL now!" http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~abostick

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Re: Imminent Death of the Internet, GIF at 11
by Alexander 'Sasha' Chislenko 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:40 AM 9/7/96 -0700, Martin Minow <minow(a)apple.com> wrote: >For several months (years?) Bob Metcalf has been predicting that >the Internet will self-destruct from overload. His argument >appears to follow one of Gordon Bell's maxims: "anyone can predict >the future: all you need is semi-log paper and a ruler." As I >understand it, Metcalf's argument is that network load (messages, >packets) is growing exponentially, while network bandwidth (fiber >capacity, switch performance) is growing linearly. At some point, >these two curves cross -- and demand will exceed capacity. > I would add one word into that Gordon Bell's maxim: "anyone can predict the SHORT-TERM future: all you need is semi-log paper and a ruler." Rulers are liner-extrapolation predictors; the only predictions with still lower intelligence are pointers - with the assumption that things are going to always remain the same. Unfortunately, these two kinds of prediction methods populate most of the human "visionary" landscape, with rare flowers of visionary minds elevating above it - Metcalf's doesn't seem to be one of them. This very observation on the population/food dilemma was made by Malthus quite a while ago. However, both population and food are still here, and natural resources are no longer a serious limiting factor for the production of food. If you notice that your attempt to extend your ruler farther than it can go, will not work, it's a good prediction of a breakdown - *of the ruler*, not the system you are trying to measure. The role of a visionary is not to mistake the horizon of current trends for the horizon of the world, but look ahead and predict future trends - and advise what should be done to adapt to the imminent transitions. An important observation for the net traffic/bandwidth "crisis" is that human ability to perceive textual and visual information remains pretty much the same. Addition of graphics, video and sound to the Net, as well as the growing number of users, increase the bandwidth, but this all has (though still distant) saturation point - say, 24 hour-a-day single-channel video feed to every human and his dog. (Inter-machine communications do not have this limit though). Already, most of the newsfeed coming to any single server, is never read by anybody; this is also the fate of most messages from 60 or so mailing lists coming to my PC. A solution here, that will be also quite instrumental for many future problems, is not to send messages that are not going to be read - i.e., server-side filtering agents; I have been suggesting collaborative message filtering (see proposal on my home page) for more than 5 years now - only to find people who could help implement it, uselessly running around the Net whining and waving their stiff rulers. Of course, there are also other methods of making Net traffic more intelligent and robust; if Internet was recognized as the most revolutionary development in the evolution of the global ecology of intelligence, and if there existed some mechanism for turning truly visionary ideas on the Net's evolution into changes in its structure, then, well, things would be much better. <x-rich></x-rich><x-rich> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Alexander Chislenko <<sasha1(a)netcom.com> www.lucifer.com/~sasha/home.html Firefly Network, Inc.: <<alexc(a)firefly.net> www.ffly.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- </x-rich>

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Mailing list
by Webeus 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hello, I have been away for over 2 months and in returning find that alpha.c2.org is lo longer. Can you suggest an alternative, FAQ's etc ?? Thank you Webeus

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