December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: A Cyberspace Independence Refutation
by Dave Farber 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The President can not rule anything unconstitutional. He can tell justice not to enforce it but sometime local federal prosecutors do what they want and some future administration can decide to enforce it. Only the courts or the congress can change things for sure. Dave At 03:20 PM 2/17/96 -0800, jamesd(a)echeque.com wrote: >jamesd(a)echeque.com said: >> >>j> 1. President Clinton declared CDA unconstitutional and directed >>j> the Justice department to refrain from enforcing it. > >At 01:57 PM 2/16/96 -0600, Sten Drescher wrote: >> Then why is the Justice Department defending it? > >Sorry: My error. As you pointed out he ruled *part* of the >CDA unconstitutional -- a part that no one expected to be >enforced anyway > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > | >We have the right to defend ourselves | http://www.jim.com/jamesd/ >and our property, because of the kind | >of animals that we are. True law | James A. Donald >derives from this right, not from the | >arbitrary power of the state. | jamesd(a)echeque.com > > >

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Re: Libertarians and crypto and such
by tallpaul＠pipeline.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Feb 16, 1996 23:06:27, 'Bruce Baugh <bruce(a)aracnet.com>' wrote: >At 12:43 AM 2/17/96 -0500, tallpaul wrote: > >>While the LP or its majority may not call for the things I've critiqued, >>certainly libertarians have. Nor, as far as I can recall, have LPers >>repeatedly posted to the cypherpunk list material that is on-the-surface at >>least significantly off-topic; libertarians have. And I responded. > >So you get the fun of attacking this straw man called "libertarians" without >any responsibility to identify any actual people it might include other than >a handful of folks that the vast majority of us think are kooks. And you've >also acquired the remarkable mental power, apparently, to discern who is or >is not an LP member based on their posts here. > Libertarians are not "straw men." They actually exist. I've seen them with my own eyes. If B. Baugh is upset that I have not mentioned any of the other libertarians (olf the cypherpunk list) that I have criticized, I would be happy to re-post to the list all of the related messages in other news groups on this topic listing their names. My "sent mail" archives contain a few thousand messages. (Aside to T.C. May: this is sarcasm and rhetorical hyperbole.) The vast majority of the libertarians on the cypherpunk list *might* think that the people I've criticized are "kooks" but I can find no evidence of this. I do note that some people who call themselves "libertarians" have so criticized the "kooks." The second point is, I think, either an error in logic. I have written nothing about my ability to tell what political party someone belongs or does not belong to. I infer that when someone tells me they are a member of the LP, CPUSA, SPUSA, etc. that they are, until evidence dictates another conclusion. If someone is a party member and decides not to make the material public, then they, not I, are responsible for any transient confusion that develops. But I do not demand or expect people to automatically list their party affiliation. I do note that the declared ability to "discern" unannounced party membership has historically been far more a rightwing then leftwing "ability" in the U.S.A. >Neat tricks. > >But until they're joined with a willingness to look at a wider range of >libertarian posts than the fragment that feeds your pet peeves, I reserve >the right to be impressed. Again, these seems to reflect your ability to reach conclusions about other people's behavior based on no evidence. I have read numerous posts by libertarians on the net; who has not! The issues I have responded to have usually centered on thigs like the mass killings of civilians, murder, and hatred of other people based on issues like race, ethnicity, nationality, and/or religion. You may consider these nothing more than my "pet peeves." This is your right. But in an era of increasing global hatred over such issues I do not think many would agree with your accessment of the relative weight of these issues. You need not be impressed; I was not posting to impress you. > >And yes, this is off-topic. So this is all I have to say about it. > I think then that you posted one message too many. --tallpaul

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Patents suck
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Jean-Francois Avon (JFA Technologies, QC, Canada) wrote: > Man's survival tool is his mind. > > Patents and copyright are establishing the ownership and protection > the result of the exercise of his survival tool. > > Therefore they are good. > > To try to eliminate them is equivalent to promote slavery. I take some disagreement with that. With patents, there is a problem of large companies owning them yet doing nothing with them except suing other companies or individuals. For example, look at arithmetic coding: there are many patents owned on it, yet a lot of software using this means of compression may be in violation of the patents... are the patent-owners publishing software or makingh efforts to license it widely? If anything, such patents are getting in the way of using many algorithms. Patents would be better if there was a good-faith attempt on the part of the holder to "use it or lose it". Somebody sitting on a patent and doing nothing with it deserves to lose it after a number of years.

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Indian datacom freed?
by Rishab Aiyer Ghosh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The Indian Techonomist: bulletin Copyright (C) 1996 Rishab Aiyer Ghosh. All rights reserved Indian datacom freed? by Rishab Aiyer Ghosh February 16: Today, in a "brainstorming" session to discuss the new datacom policy proposed by The Indian Techonomist, the Department of Telecommunications indicated its enthusiasm for a free datacom environment in India. As no official decision has yet been taken, I cannot make the details public for the moment. There is one exception: the Telecom Secretary (and Chairman, Telecom Commission) R K Takkar has made it quite clear that content providers in cyberspace will receive all the free-speech protections available to other media. Mr Takkar said that existing laws for obscenity and national security were enough for the Internet, and in any case were not the concern of the DoT. Mr Takkar said that there was no need to licence on-line content providers, and indicated that Internet service providers would not be responsible for illegal content, apparently implying common carrier status for ISPs. The other parts of the proposal, relating to low entry barriers for ISPs and free competition met with a largely positive response. The full text of the proposal is now available at http://dxm.org/techonomist/news/newdcom.html Apart from Mr Takkar and myself, present at the meeting were Telecom Commission Members P Saran and P Khan, as well as some other senior DoT staff. I would like to thank Vinton Cerf and Lawrence Landweber for the support given by the Internet Society to the proposal. The Indian Techonomist: bulletin. http://dxm.org/techonomist/ Copyright (C) 1996 Rishab Aiyer Ghosh (rishab(a)techonomist.dxm.org) Tel +91 11 6853410; Fax 6856992; H-34-C Saket New Delhi 110017 INDIA May be distributed electronically provided that this notice is attached

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Cybercrooks
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The Dream of the Internet Becomes Worst Nightmare Manhasset, N.Y., Feb. 16 -- Technology managers, who dreamed of the Internet as a new business tool and championed their cause to senior management, are waking up to nightmares of security gone awry, reports CMP's InformationWeek in its February 19 issue. "The incidence of cybercrook attacks to mine or sabotage a company's information resources is rising rapidly," states Bob Violino, editor-at-large of InformationWeek. "What is especially alarming is that despite the fact that companies like Rockwell International and Merrill Lynch and various government agencies employ the latest firewall and encryption technology available, they are experiencing security breaches on a regular basis." Business users have been particularly skittish about the Internet since last September, when two computer science students at the University of California at Berkeley cracked the public-key encryption code used by Netscape Communications Corp.'s popular browser software. "There are more experts than ever in the intruder community who know the infrastructure of the Internet," explains Cathy Fithen, CERT's team leader of strategic incident response. "In the past we saw people breaking into systems using passwords. Now they look for flaws to exploit involving networking protocols and source codes for operating systems." The fear of invasion is well founded, according to federal law enforcement agencies, which have stepped up their investigations of online intrusions. "We're aware that this is a serious problem for any industry using the Internet," says Jim Freeman, special agent in charge of the FBI's San Francisco office. "Salvation from the government, or from vendors with new security products, seems unlikely," says Violino. "History shows that as soon as new security tools are developed, hackers learn to crack them. And while not every company possesses trade secrets, security is still a must for everyone in business. For now, at least, absolute security is one thing the Net can't offer." But, companies are so focused on Internet intrusions from outsiders that they often fail to consider the possibility of an inside hacker. According to John Reinke, chief information security architect at Merrill Lynch & Co., Inc. in New York, "There is no modern large organization that I now of that does internal firewalls." At Bell Laboratories, where an internal network links some 300,000 host computers around the world, security is a constant concern. "We're bigger than the entire Internet was in the late 1980s," says Bill Cheswick, technical staff manager at the labs' computer science research department in Murray Hill, N.J. "Our firewall keeps the bad guys out but you can't say there aren't bad guys inside the company." --

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Re: Berkeley ftp site moved again?
by Ian Goldberg 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- s1018954(a)aix2.uottawa.ca wrote: > > I've been unable to get through to ftp.csua.berkeley.edu > and www.csua.berkeley.edu for the past two days. > > Does anyone know if the site (and the cpunk archives with it) > has moved or if it's just down? (I'd mail root, but what's the > point if the machine's down?) > > Sorry if I've missed this being mentioned before. It's just down. - Ian - --- [This message has been signed by an auto-signing service. A valid signature means only that it has been received at the address corresponding to the signature and forwarded.] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Gratis auto-signing service iQBFAwUBMSZ7+SoZzwIn1bdtAQE74QF+LpQ4ArMpxZXxCF0HjKDkoa2oW8vMGUgP igMRtrhpScWkQOuAcXWun4/T+2hIHxCk =dKmJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Text of personal use exemption
by Ian Goldberg 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Michael Froomkin wrote: > > http://www.law.miami.edu/~froomkin/personal-use.txt > Interesting. Note, however, the following proviso (123.27(a)(1)): (1) The software product(s) are to be used only on a simultaneously temporarily exported Category XIII(b)(1) hardware product or a simultaneously exported item on the Commerce Control List (CCL) This seems to say a couple of things: o I can't bring my copy of PGP or kerberos with me on a floppy, intending to use it abroad on a conveniently available computer; I must bring a computer with me. o The computer I bring with me must be a Category XIII(b)(1) hardware product; that is, something that is illegal to export (now, except for personal use), or be on the CCL. That second one seems weird. Does the CCL have things like normal portable computers on it? Otherwise, this exemption seems pretty useless... - Ian - --- [This message has been signed by an auto-signing service. A valid signature means only that it has been received at the address corresponding to the signature and forwarded.] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Gratis auto-signing service iQBFAwUBMSaALCoZzwIn1bdtAQHakAF+Lu9NxtqTvIobwT8epPPK/aWP38ldAO1m zJpcRffvIUmcKjB+U+A2OxAnSFRGd6r7 =cvI8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Remailers Pose Risk
by Michael Peponis 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> Computerworld, February 12, 1996, Front page: > "Anonymous remailers have a lot of nasty potential," said > Stephen T. Kent, chief scientist for security technology at >So do kitchen knives or automobiles. So do brain-dead journalists and "security experts". Oops, take that back, no probability involved, they are nasty problems. [..] > One snowy day last month, for example, about 25% of the > workforce at a defense contractor in Rockville, Md., went > home after they received a bogus E-mail message dismissing > them for the day. The message originated from an anonymous > remailer that allowed the user to impersonate a senior > company official. :Was that a remailer or simply forged mail? How long have people been bitching about putting digital signatures on stuff like that. If it was signed, it could of been verified if indeed it was legit or not. Irregardless of where it came from, anybody stupid enough to believe everything they read, without checking out it's validity, deserves what they get. [..] > "As in the case of smallpox, yellow fever, flu epidemics, > AIDS or malaria, it will take disasters before the public > may accept that some forms of restrictions on the > electronic freedom of speech and that privacy may be > worthwhile."FNORD! What?? like anonymous electronic media spreads the disease somehow. To the person who wrote the article, you have proved beond a shadow of a doubt that you are dense as a brick. Wrong type of virus, you mean the other kind. > Do's and don'tsAhem > Unethical or illegal uses of anonymous remailers:[..] > - To violate copyright laws ... Scientology... > - To encourage others to commit unethical or illegal > behavior Oh Boo Hoo, the moral decay of society, that is your problem shithead, not mine, some of us survive no matter what happens to the rest of you. Regards, Michael Peponis PGP Key Avalible form MIT Key Server,or via finger

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Legal status of Indian Reservations and CDA
by Michael Peponis 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

If I remember correctly, are not American Indian reservations considered qusi-sovergin states under the law? If this is true, what would stop me from negotiating with some tribe to establish an ISP on the reservation and then placing whatever material I wanted on that site without fear of reprisals from the US goverment. After all, if they are a soveign state, decency is covered by whatever laws they have, if any, not the CDA. If this is true, the Indians get the benift of having state-of-the-art telecommunications in thier communities, plus residual job creation, and everyone else gets freedom of speech. Any comments? Regards, Michael Peponis PGP Key Avalible form MIT Key Server,or via finger

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Re: Legal status of Indian Reservations and CDA
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 6:03 PM 2/17/96, Michael Peponis wrote: >If I remember correctly, are not American Indian reservations considered >qusi-sovergin states under the law? > >If this is true, what would stop me from negotiating with some tribe to >establish an ISP on the reservation and then placing whatever material I >wanted >on that site without fear of reprisals from the US goverment. > >After all, if they are a soveign state, decency is covered by whatever laws >they have, if any, not the CDA. > >If this is true, the Indians get the benift of having state-of-the-art >telecommunications in thier communities, plus residual job creation, and >everyone else gets freedom of speech. "Bingo." Actually, not. Despite the Indian bingo parlors, look at what is lacking in this model: brothels, money-laundering banks, hash parlors, etc. (Not that there aren't whorehouses operating semi-openly on Indian lands, as elsewhere, just that the fiction that Indian reservations are quasi-sovereign is just that, a fiction. Recall the case of Native American uses of peyote.) Of course, this fiction of sovereignty has been useful for the intelligence community when they wanted it: Wackenhut and related CIA companies used the Cabazon Band of Indians lands near Indio, California to develop products that are illegal to develop in the nominal United States...despite being less than a mile from the main freeway linking LA and Palm Springs. And I was told that certain microwave (Long Lines?) lines were deliberately routed through Indian reservations, allowing NSA-GCHQ monitoring without violating the "no domestic interception" fiction. So, it might be possible to eventually push through an exemption to the CDA that is somewhat analogous to the way some Indian reservations can have gambling facilities that are otherwise forbidden, but I expect the court battle would be a long one, and would need big money to pursue. (Gambling got pushed through for obvious financial reasons, and perhaps because of some judicious payoffs to local officials, courts, etc. Yet another convenient fiction.) --Tim May Boycott espionage-enabled software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^756839 - 1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: True random numbers
by Sandy Harris 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Deranged Mutant <wlkngowl(a)unix.asb.com> wrote: >maruishi(a)netcom.com wrote: >> >> I was trying to think of a way to come up with true random numbers... >> And knowing a bit of UNIX socket TCP/IP programming I made a small [..] > >I wouldn't trust the samples taken from networked sources. Me neither, in general. A possible exception: I wonder if the checksums on Ethernet or IP packets use a reasonably strong CRC algorithm. If so, they might be a decent source of randomness in an environment where you could be sure the Black Hats couldn't see them. e.g. using only packets from your own LAN, suitably protected by firewall & good administration. >You're better >off with a kernel patch that samples from local sources directly like >disk or keyboard timing variations... such patches already exist, with >similar drivers developed for DOS and OS/2 systems as well. I'd be more inclined to hash the kernel's internal tables, e.g. process & file descriptor tables. These should vary quite a lot & if the enemy can see them, random number quality is the least of your worries. RFC 1750 is a good reference on this problem. -- Sandy Harris sharris(a)fox.nstn.ca

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Privacy and Information Disclosure
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 9:57 PM 2/17/96, "A. Padgett Peterson P.E. Information Security" >ps Tim was correct, believe I *registered* Libertarian that year - do remember > not getting invited to vote in any primaries. Thanks for confirming/acknowledging this. The larger point, not directed at Padgett is this: people voluntarily reveal information about themselves, get themselves placed on mailing lists for like-minded people (such as this list, or the Rose Growers of Alberta list, etc.), etc., and then they complain that others are compiling data on them! The classic example is borrowing money, whether via a credit card (you did know you're borrowing, didn't you?) or for a conventional bank loan. Most people who borrow money and then repay the money _want_ this to be known to other potential lenders...this is what a "credit rating" is all about. Of course, those who borrow money and then don't repay it are anxious not to have others know about this situation! If you don't want to be on a Libertarian Party mailing list, don't register officially as an LP member. If you don't want a record with the credit card companies, don't use their credit cards. If you don't want to be a list of people who buy sexual devices, don't buy them through the mail (or use money orders, mail drops, etc.). And so on. What I can't imagine anyone on this list wanting (though apparently some percentage do want them) are laws which give the illusion of enhancing privacy by taking away the rights of others. I say "illusion" because The Ones Who Really Matter will still have the goods on you. (The Lotus CD-ROM of addresses being the canonical example of this. It was hailed as a great victory that "the Net" rallied to get Lotus to abandon plans to sell this CD-ROM to me and thee, where in actuality it just meant that the sales remained to direct marketers, law enforcement, and the like. But the Ostrich Syndrome prevailed.) --Tim May Boycott espionage-enabled software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^756839 - 1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: Remailers Pose Risk
by Deranged Mutant 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Pitty the author of that article won't see replies to it on the list. > From: "Michael Peponis" <mianigand(a)unique.outlook.net> > To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com, wlkngowl(a)unix.asb.com > Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 18:03:09 +0000 > Subject: Re: Remailers Pose Risk [..] > Oh Boo Hoo, the moral decay of society, that is your problem shithead, not > mine, some of us survive no matter what happens to the rest of you. > Regards, > Michael Peponis > PGP Key Avalible form MIT Key Server,or via finger Rob. --- Send a blank message with the subject "send pgp-key" (not in quotes) to <WlkngOwl(a)unix.asb.com> for a copy of my PGP key.

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MIT Keyserver (at pgp@pgp.mit.edu) Mostly Operational
by jis＠mit.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

(A copy of this message has also been posted to the following newsgroups: alt.security.pgp) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- The keyserver running at pgp(a)pgp.mit.edu is once again operational. It is using new keyserver software. The old keyserver software was a collection of perl scripts that invoked PGP to do its key management. The new server is written in "C" and does its own key management, complete with appropriate indices. Not all email commands are implemented. However "GET", "ADD" and "INDEX" (when given an argument to look for) do work. Response is immediate (plus or minus e-mail delays). The best on-line way to use the keyserver is via the World Wide Web at: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html Enjoy. -Jeff -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMSaaCcUtR20Nv5BtAQF76wQAmsuF4t43zIaNjW1lZS9fhYr/3UjIHqVT V3jMSJ5W3gsEWkHzigP2VY5tfduiC4oQJOaGaHFSSI6jkhEFTpjOvVMIe6ye/GKh pqiXNm/wBef4EFQ+NqKjPc/TW28odVGR50A5kneI/tyOjAYrFzetakOUlBeq+Qrv 1e4OamD65fo= =FyXc -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: True democracy in America.
by Deranged Mutant 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Michael Peponis wrote: > In my opinion, only the most basic of services, trash collection, road > maintenance, education (decided upon experts, not just people with opinions. > I don't claime to be an expert on history, so why should I have a say on how it > is tought, I have no expertise in that area). An off-topic quickie rant regarding "essential services" and "qualification"... I notice in the current tax-cutting climate (at least in the US) that people who resent it when garbage collectors, janitors, teachers, train conductors, etc. are making a "decent" wage because they have to pay the taxes and fees (private as well as public) for these services. They seem to view the fact that they have a college degree makes them more entitled to a reasonable standard of living than a high-school drop-out... Yet in terms of supply and demand economics, perhaps garbage collectors etc. deserve to be paid more than accountants and salesmen... This has nothing to do with cypherpunks or himalayan hackers in hot tubs, so back to the usual data trash. - --- [This message has been signed by an auto-signing service. A valid signature means only that it has been received at the address corresponding to the signature and forwarded.] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Gratis auto-signing service iQBFAwUBMSTjqCoZzwIn1bdtAQHcmwF+LJjO9Q+6GAKVPmWyfKGOiKvPfv3/9DiY qqNhHIIUL1AH6wzq1ccTUg1i+dg+MMH7 =pIUZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Indian Reservations
by Greg Kucharo 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

A indian reservation sure beats moving to the Turks and Caicos. Well maybe not the weather part, but anyway in recent times I believe that several local governments have challenged the indian gaming enterprises. I recall a report on NPR about a challenge in Deleware or New Hampshire by a group of townspeople that was on the edge of a reservation. The indians won the case and were allowed to continue. Because of the new wealth generated by the bingo parlors and poker tables, the various tribes have gotten lobbying power in Congress. So I think that indian reservation sovernignty has grown in recent years, and would be very intresting course to pursue. -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQCPAzEIa2wAAAEEALouE7MNxsG+QTOJSrMTygYWKblpI9MgOKaFA+5AICNelAw6 6Gj3B0EQr7bwLILk8EJULG+kYh/ND9Kn1EXBK+elXbwpFCLqoyEZrbHJnurhH/t6 VFEwhbN1V0e/bFOCTq8nykoJjZ/uq0mz8HouIbEt6BYWoKVSUIU/T+iDV3TVABEB AAG0DWdoa0Bzb3BoaS5jb20= =gwax -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

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Indian Reservations Redux
by Greg Kucharo 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Here's a bit I turned up after a Alta Vista search. http://www.wtp.net/bus-con/mimn/reservation.html A sample from this page follows; Why Indian Reservations Make Good Offshore Manufacturing Sites for Foreign and Outside Investors STATUS OF THE RESERVATION IN AMERICAN LAW The reservation can be compared to as an Export Processing Zone. It represents an autonomous region within the U.S.A.; wherein, Tribal law can stipulate the exemption from State taxes and from other laws which otherwise exist in the State. The net result being... a cost savings to the investor -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQCPAzEIa2wAAAEEALouE7MNxsG+QTOJSrMTygYWKblpI9MgOKaFA+5AICNelAw6 6Gj3B0EQr7bwLILk8EJULG+kYh/ND9Kn1EXBK+elXbwpFCLqoyEZrbHJnurhH/t6 VFEwhbN1V0e/bFOCTq8nykoJjZ/uq0mz8HouIbEt6BYWoKVSUIU/T+iDV3TVABEB AAG0DWdoa0Bzb3BoaS5jb20= =gwax -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

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Re: Using lasers to communicate
by ericd＠shop.internet.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Woooa there.... Lasers are not exactly expensive or complicated.... Check out www.lasercomm.com. 4-15Mb/s lasers. or Cannon 10-100Mb/s lasers. I have installed these products *many* times and their setup and operation is fast and efficient. (used to work for Interop) Exmaple: We used a pair of these, and MBONE, to provide a 2 way real time video confrence link joining an IETF session between a room of users at Japan Interop (local) and a group in Sweeden (IETF). The setup a was last minute point to point Ethernet link from the confrence center to a local hotel acress the road. We had 1.5 hours to perform ALL of the work, from wiring both roofs, seting up the lasers, wiring the internal hotel/confrence center, and setting up systems and projectors. !!The Laser setup took about :15 minutes, tops!! BTW: With this system the transmit "beam" is focused into a "spot" half way between the sending and receiving units. The receiving unit is tuned to look for that focused "spot". This means that there is a very large (area wise) low power laser pattern behind each of the receivers! With a sensitive enough receiver, it is possible to hear this signal! When you need to transport a data stream (1-155Mb/s) to a remote site, this solution works out to be *MUCH* cheaper than leasing circuits from bell, bypass folks, etc.. Another case in point: We (ISN) needed to transport a 100Mb/s (FDDI) between \ 2 sites. Upon checking, the price of PacBell "dim" fiber was outrageous! We had no MFS/TCG/etc fiber in the man hole to latch onto. The choice was clear. As for security, the bottom line is that encryption devices are cheap. Last plus for these units is that most foreign countries do not prevent the use of these point to point optical devices. This is not the case for spread spectrum multipoint or microwave point to point radio devices. Eric Davis At 10:44 PM 2/17/96, SINCLAIR DOUGLAS N wrote: >> If you have a secure link you don't need encryption. Arguably, the >> converse is true; if you have secure encryption you don't need >> a secure link. Isn't the ability to transmit secure data over >> insecure channels one of the primary justifications for encryption? >> > >Of course. My point, though I seem to have failed to state it, >is that encryption is a cheap software thing while laser beams >are expensive, complicated, and still not secure. ------------------------------------------------------------- Eric Davis -- ericd(a)internet.net Director, Information Systems Internet Shopping Network -- http://www.internet.net/ 415-846-7449 Voice -- 415-842-7415 Fax -- KD6HTO Radio ------------------------------------------------------------- - One by one our rights are taken, One by one we loose our - freedom. Step by step we're coming for them, One by one - we're coming. - Inka Inka - Myth of the Machine - Step Back

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Re: Legal status of Indian Reservations and CDA
by Deranged Mutant 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Michael Peponis wrote: > If I remember correctly, are not American Indian reservations considered > qusi-sovergin states under the law? Yes and no. Sometimes states are able to go after then for taxes in terms of money made from non-Indians. NYS complains about people going to reservations to buy cheap cigarettes, for instance, and wants taxes collected from non-Indians. I think the Iran-Contra flap involved using a reservation in Calif. to get around some weapons manufacturing or exporting laws. Not sure, though. > If this is true, what would stop me from negotiating with some tribe to > establish an ISP on the reservation and then placing whatever material I wanted > on that site without fear of reprisals from the US goverment. The tribe. They may not be too happy about an ISP on their territory carrying porno, neo-nazi literature or even crypto... Actually, they may look down upon any business deal meant to circumvent US laws, since it can get them into an unpleasant conflict with the gov't. It would be an altogether different situation if they wanted to start their own ISP though... Beware of exploiting poor people on Indian reservations or elsewhere on the planet just to be outside of the laws. Even if it seems for a good cause to you, the locals may not look to favorably. > After all, if they are a soveign state, decency is covered by whatever laws > they have, if any, not the CDA. Their own laws may be stricter. Much stricter. Also, what about the receiver? Or the receiver's ISP? Erotic materials are legal in plenty of countries, but can't the receiver get in trouble? As soon as people see the flawed logic in the Amateur Action BBS case, that's the take they'll go for... and it's back to square one. Rob. - --- [This message has been signed by an auto-signing service. A valid signature means only that it has been received at the address corresponding to the signature and forwarded.] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Gratis auto-signing service iQBFAwUBMSasCCoZzwIn1bdtAQFwZgGAyPIqr9h4dKNfPFgt/3I3n8qIRvoe4lM7 Lcd6Zsp12hcO9Dbckn202L6O1Qjxy+yi =dY6I -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Indian Reservations USC cites
by Greg Kucharo 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Ok, one last thing on indian reservations. There is a searchable database of the United States Code at the following address; http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/25/ Title 25 covers Indians. -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQCPAzEIa2wAAAEEALouE7MNxsG+QTOJSrMTygYWKblpI9MgOKaFA+5AICNelAw6 6Gj3B0EQr7bwLILk8EJULG+kYh/ND9Kn1EXBK+elXbwpFCLqoyEZrbHJnurhH/t6 VFEwhbN1V0e/bFOCTq8nykoJjZ/uq0mz8HouIbEt6BYWoKVSUIU/T+iDV3TVABEB AAG0DWdoa0Bzb3BoaS5jb20= =gwax -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

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Re: True random numbers
by frantz＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 9:25 PM 2/17/96 -0400, Sandy Harris wrote: >A possible exception: I wonder if the checksums on Ethernet or IP >packets use a reasonably strong CRC algorithm. The algorithm used with IP packets isn't even particulary good for error detection. It was designed for easy computation on slow, narrow chips. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz Periwinkle -- Computer Consulting (408)356-8506 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz(a)netcom.com Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA

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Re: Using lasers to communicate
by frantz＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:44 PM 2/17/96 -0500, SINCLAIR DOUGLAS N wrote: >> If you have a secure link you don't need encryption. Arguably, the >> converse is true; if you have secure encryption you don't need >> a secure link. Isn't the ability to transmit secure data over >> insecure channels one of the primary justifications for encryption? >> > >Of course. My point, though I seem to have failed to state it, >is that encryption is a cheap software thing while laser beams >are expensive, complicated, and still not secure. Ah yes, but software without hardware doesn't do much. Wires are expensive, and in many places you can't string them across public right-of-ways. The distance from my house to my neighbor across the street is less than 200 feet. I suspect some form of optical link would work fairly well. I also think it would be hard to tap. I think my point is, don't throw something out of your tool bag just because you can't use it everywhere. Bill

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Re: Legal status of Indian Reservations and CDA
by frantz＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 6:03 PM 2/17/96 +0000, Michael Peponis wrote: >If I remember correctly, are not American Indian reservations considered >qusi-sovergin states under the law? > >If this is true, what would stop me from negotiating with some tribe to >establish an ISP on the reservation and then placing whatever material I >wanted >on that site without fear of reprisals from the US goverment. In the last Indian war (the Modoc war), the Indian leaders were hanged as common criminals when the war was over. The current law allows small sins on the reservation. I suspect that if you tried to sell porn from a reservation or thru the mail you would find out the limits of Indian nationhood. Bill

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Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: ncr-sd.sdca.attgis.com.: host not found)
by Mailer-Daemon＠ig4.att.att.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The original message was received at Sun, 18 Feb 1996 00:05:33 -0500 (EST) from ncrgw1@localhost ----- The following addresses have delivery notifications ----- sandiegoca.ncr.com!chris.claborne (unrecoverable error) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 550 sandiegoca.ncr.com!chris.claborne... Host unknown (Name server: ncr-sd.sdca.attgis.com.: host not found) ----- Message header follows ----- Return-Path: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with UUCP id AAA01559 for sandiegoca.ncr.com!chris.claborne; Sun, 18 Feb 1996 00:05:33 -0500 (EST) Received: by ncrgw1.ATTGIS.COM; 18 Feb 96 00:05:15 EST Received: from toad.com by relay3.UU.NET with SMTP id QQadkd19489; Sat, 17 Feb 1996 23:59:52 -0500 (EST) Received: by toad.com id AA23859; Sat, 17 Feb 96 20:35:58 PST Received: from cs.umass.edu (freya.cs.umass.edu) by toad.com id AA23846; Sat, 17 Feb 96 20:35:53 PST Received: from thor.cs.umass.edu by cs.umass.edu (5.65/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA00548; Sat, 17 Feb 1996 23:35:51 -0500 Received: (from lmccarth@localhost) by thor.cs.umass.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id XAA24397 for cypherpunks(a)toad.com; Sat, 17 Feb 1996 23:35:50 -0500 From: lmccarth(a)cs.umass.edu Message-Id: <199602180435.XAA24397(a)thor.cs.umass.edu> Subject: Re: Some thoughts on the Chinese Net To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com (Cypherpunks Mailing List) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 23:35:50 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com (Cypherpunks Mailing List) In-Reply-To: <199602171820.NAA12476(a)pipe11.nyc.pipeline.com> from "tallpaul" at Feb 17, 96 01:20:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com Precedence: bulk ----- Message body suppressed -----

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Re: DES_ono
by Frank Willoughby 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Two brief questions about DES, if I may. I have heard of a couple of rumours that DES is considered to be fairly weak. Specifically, the rumors mentioned that there were some questions about the design of the S-boxes and the possibility that there was a trap door which would permit the NSA or other gov't agency to quickly obtain the cleartext. Another rumour was that the French & Israeli intelligence agencies downgraded the classification of DES to one of the lowest strengths of encryption algorithms. I have been wondering about these issues off & on for a while & have tried to do some research on them, but have come up with nothing which would amount to more than hearsay. It's tough to tell if the rumours stem from urban legends or are based on fact. If it isn't too much trouble, I'd appreciate an expert opinion of the two rumours mentioned above. Assuming the rumours of the weakness of DES are true, which symmetric encryption algorithms would you recommend which are substantially more secure than DES (and which are obtainable from Internet or commercial sources)? (It doesn't haver to be exportable). Thanks in advance for your help. Best Regards, Frank <standard disclaimer> The opinions expressed above are of the author and may not necessarily be representative of Fortified Networks Inc. Fortified Networks Inc. - Management & Information Security Consulting Phone: (317) 573-0800 - http://www.fortified.com/fortified Home of the Free Internet Firewall Evaluation Checklist

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