December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: [mis]FWD: On digital cash and geodesic economies
by Alexander 'Sasha' Chislenko 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Sorry - sent previous post to cp instead of bionomics.

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Fwd: Anonymous code name allocated.
by JonWienke＠aol.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

[The following has been censored to protect the guilty.] >Subj: Anonymous code name allocated. >Date: 96-04-02 23:37:10 EST >From: daemon(a)anon.penet.fi (System Daemon) >To: jonwienke(a)aol.com > >You have sent a message using the anon.penet.fi anonymous forwarding service. >You have been allocated the code name anXXXXXX. >You can be reached anonymously using the address >anXXXXXX(a)anon.penet.fi. > >If you want to use a nickname, please send a message to >nick(a)anon.penet.fi, with a Subject: field containing your nickname. > >For instructions, send a message to help(a)anon.penet.fi. I tried sending a test message to the address indicated, and received it back a day later, so sending email to this address does reach me. The funny part is that I have never (to my knowledge) had any communication with anon.penet.fi prior to receiving this email. Questions: 1. How do I use this to SEND messages anonymously? Having an email address with no obvious link to my identity is cool, but I would like to be able to send as well as receive. I sent email to help(a)anon.penet.fi, but have received no response yet. 2. Why was I chosen for this? How did anon.penet.fi find out my email address? Is the NSA trying to lull me into a false sense of security in the hope that I will use this account to violate ITAR? 3. Has anyone else on this list received unsolicited remailer accounts? Jonathan Wienke --------------------- Forwarded message: From: daemon(a)anon.penet.fi (System Daemon) To: jonwienke(a)aol.com Date: 96-04-02 23:37:10 EST You have sent a message using the anon.penet.fi anonymous forwarding service. You have been allocated the code name an573530. You can be reached anonymously using the address an573530(a)anon.penet.fi. If you want to use a nickname, please send a message to nick(a)anon.penet.fi, with a Subject: field containing your nickname. For instructions, send a message to help(a)anon.penet.fi.

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Why pay???
by kreidl＠newrock.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> >Thanks for your interest in Cypherpunks Lite. > >I provide a moderated version of the Cypherpunks list called >"Cypherpunks Lite". A one year subscription costs US$20 and is >payable by check or money order to "Communication Security Corp". >Cypherpunks Lite is available in either individual messages or a >more-or-less daily message digest. The content of both are the same. >In either case, I forward approximately 5 - 10% of the total >Cypherpunks feed. This works out to about 5 - 10 messages / day. > >To take a look at what you can expect there is an archive of the previous >selections organized by month at ftp://ftp.crl.com/users/co/comsec/cp-lite. >The files with the extension .gz are compressed using gzip. > >If you would like to subscribe, please send payment to: > > Communication Security Corp. > 1275 Fourth Street, Suite 194 > Santa Rosa, CA 95404 USA > >Be sure to provide the email address you want us to use, as well as >indicating your preference for individual messages or the digest. > Why would I pay if I can get it for free this way?????? ÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑ Chris (or Richard) Kreidl Ñ kreidl(a)newrock.com Ñ ÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑÑ

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No Subject
by agil.home＠mail.telepac.pt 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

unsubscrive * agil.home(a)mail.telepac.pt unsubscrive * agil.home(a)mail.telepac.pt unsubscrive * agil.home(a)mail.telepac.pt

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Re: Bad news from Judge Richey
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:35 PM 4/4/96 EST, Dr. Dimitri Vulis wrote: >"E. ALLEN SMITH" <EALLENSMITH(a)ocelot.Rutgers.EDU> writes: >> Umm... one would guess that a federal judge would be against the >> whole Assasination Politics idea, whether or not he himself became a target. > >It's worth noting that one of the new newsgroups that Rich Graves mentioned is: >talk.politics.assassination Assassination Politics >My congratulations to Jim Bell on getting his own newsgroup! Hey, it's news to me! I'll have to check it out... BTW, are you sure it's not an old one? After all, there have been enough assassination conspiracy theory discussions (Lincoln, Huey Long, JFK, RFK, King, etc) over the decades that I'm sure they'd merit a discussion area. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Re: So, what crypto legislation (if any) is necessary?
by E. ALLEN SMITH 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: jim bell <jimbell(a)pacifier.com> >Far more acceptable (and useful to us) would be a rule which would mandate >the government's allowing the export of any program that had, say, the key >security provided by IDEA or less, regardless of what it did with that >encryption. (Not that I want _any_ restrictions; it's just that such a >limit would make it impractically large to attempt to crack.) As I pointed out earlier, one way (that would cause the NSA types problems trying to stop) would be to make legal for export anything which was no harder for the NSA to break than what's already out of the country. -Allen

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No Subject
by agil.home＠mail.telepac.pt 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

unsubscrive * agil.home(a)mail.telepac.pt unsubscrive * agil.home(a)mail.telepac.pt unsubscrive * agil.home(a)mail.telepac.pt

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Re: Bad news from Judge Richey
by E. ALLEN SMITH 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: tcmay(a)got.net (Timothy C. May) >At 3:28 AM 3/26/96, jim bell wrote: >>I realize that this may appear to be a rather disrespectful tactic, but have >>you considered reminding the judge that if you are not allowed to profit by >>exporting encryption that the government doesn't want to see exported, >>you'll just have to make money in some other way, and this may lead you to >>talk to Jim Bell about implementing a program using encryption that doesn't >>_need_ to be exported...legally anyway. >Whoahh! Hold on there, Jimbo! You're crossing the line. >You're coming perilously close to actually calling for the killing of a >federal judge. My recollection is that a couple of folks have been arrested >and charged for calling for the killing of judges. Umm... one would guess that a federal judge would be against the whole Assasination Politics idea, whether or not he himself became a target. I doubt that pointing AP out would do any good... but one can point out to a judge that, say, a mugger might mug him next without being threatening. -Allen

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Re: Note: Problems Confronting the Asset Concealer [Part 1 of 2 ofVolume I]
by E. ALLEN SMITH 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

A very interesting essay, although I haven't had time to read over it in full (3 papers and an oral presentation due). I do have one question, and it concerns the introduction. You state that you are leaving out material that is currently in use - i.e., some of the most useful material. Why? I know that you don't currently have a fully anonymous nym... but if that was the reason, why not just release it under a fully anonymous nym? Mistrust of the remailers, or what? -Allen

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Re: So, what crypto legislation (if any) is necessary?
by E. ALLEN SMITH 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I have been doing some thinking about the whole key escrow retrieval matter. There are a couple of situations in which I can see real reasons for doing voluntary key escrow of sensitive material: A. You're afraid of losing the key. B. Your organization is afraid that you'll lose the key or be unavailable. The second can be handled internally via key sharing; if all the people you share the key with have as much to lose by the information getting out as you do, then they should be trustworthy and as hard to subpoena as you are. Encrypting the shared section with another, appropriate key should take care of the cop-stealing problem (i.e., they break into the machine). The first is more of a problem. If where you've entrusted your keys is known, then the cops can come in and strong-arm/subpoena your keys away. Thus, the basic protection mechanism should be denying them that knowledge. (Another protection mechanism is key sharing between key escrow organizations.) In other words, anonymous remailers with stable nyms for the key escrow organizations, together with fully anonymous digital cash. One problem in this is how the organization's reputation originally is established so people will deal with them so they can get a reputation.... etcetera. The basic method of doing so appears to be to post a digital cash bond. (I don't know the mathematics well enough to tell whether one could post verifiable digital cash with it still not being usable without a decryption step. If one can't, that's a real problem... but I suspect that one can.) The encryption on such a bond should be put into the hands of a group of above-ground "judges" via secret sharing, who would be a group of people chosen by the key escrow organization in hopes of their being trusted to resolve any disputes. Of course, digital receipts would be a big help here... -Allen

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A new law in the making?
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 00:24:08 -0500 (EST) > From: "Declan B. McCullagh" <declan+(a)CMU.EDU> > Subject: FC: CDA Court Challenge: Update #4 > > The court wasn't happy with Boe's response. It gave Shea and the > government until April 17 to decide to include the entire record of > the Philly lawsuit -- and said that if they don't, the court would > appoint its *own* computer expert to demo the Net and blocking > software on April 30. This is a great idea if carried a little farther. Require courts in cases using technical or otherwise special evidence to appoint an indipendant expert to compare compare with the defence and prosecution experts. > litigators who do their homework." (Of course, Taylor conveniently has > deluded himself into believing the CDA is constitutional.) Are *any* of the current legal actions involved using either the 9th or 10th Amendment in their case? > We're back in court on 4/12, 4/15, and possibly 4/26. Good luck! Jim Choate CyberTects ravage(a)ssz.com

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Re: unsubscrive * Peter.Posch@koeln.netsurf.de
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 11:59 AM 4/4/96, Peter N. Posch wrote: >unsubscrive * Peter.Posch(a)koeln.netsurf.de For the nth fucking time: How to subscribe to the Cypherpunks mailing list: send a message to "majordomo(a)toad.com" with the body message "subscribe cypherpunks". To unsubscribe, send the message "unsubscribe cypherpunks" to the same address. For help, send "help cypherpunks". Don't send these requests to the Cypherpunks list itself. And be aware that the list generates between 40 and 100 messages a day.

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Re: the "unsubscrive" meme keeps on going.
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 1:28 PM 4/4/96, bryce(a)digicash.com wrote: >> unsubscrive * Peter.Posch(a)koeln.netsurf.de > > >I suspect that this meme propagates (especially among >non-native-English-speakers) via the list itself. Peter >Posch probably saw one of the previous "unsubscrives" and is >hoping it will work for him. Perhaps the ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ A good insight. Reminds me of the "cargo cults." (If you don't know the story, here's a brief version: Pacific Islanders saw Americans bringing riches and technological gew-gaws to their islands in WWII. Then they left, leaving cargo crates and whatnot behind. The Islanders believed if they fashioned radio headsets out of coconuts and radios out of old logs that they could bring the Great Birds from the Sky back. (*) This has since gotten currency--through anthropologists, Ayn Rand, Richard Feynman, and others--as a short-hand description for people engaging in magical thinking that the _trappings_ of something will sympathetically bring on the real thing. Some might say Java is a cargo cult...hmmmhhh, Java is a Pacific island....hmmmhhh.) (* Note: In this age of hypersensitivity, sometimes called political correctness, there are likely to be lurkers who suddenly jump up at this characterization of "native peoples" and decry my characterization of them as "savages" (even though I have not used this word nor this attitude toward them). And some will claim that if more American learned Bahasa Indonesia there would not be this cultural imperialism that is repressing all people of color. Hey, I don't repress no coloreds!) --Tim May Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^756839 - 1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: .sig followup
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 8:32 PM 4/4/96, Rich Graves wrote: > >CDAmeisters as an "invasion," but I really don't buy this stuff about >Cyberspace (a word only Barlow can say with a straight face) being a new ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >"place." It's just a communications medium, no more and no less real than >anything else. I think it would be better to stress that the online *is* This is not true. I use the word "cyberspace" with a straight face. It has long seemed perfectly descriptive to me. This doesn't mean I buy Barlow's "let's just declare independence" schtick. --Tim May Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^756839 - 1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: Why pay???
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 9:44 PM 4/4/96, kreidl(a)newrock.com wrote: >> >>Thanks for your interest in Cypherpunks Lite. >> >>I provide a moderated version of the Cypherpunks list called >>"Cypherpunks Lite". A one year subscription costs US$20 and is >Why would I pay if I can get it for free this way?????? You are of course free not to subscribe. A solution I think 98% of us would subscribe to, so to speak. Personally, I take the full Cypherpunks feed. Others may take Eric Blossom's for-a-fee filtered list, still others may take the variously-priced filtered lists by others. As it should be. (Goldwater and Heinlein got it slightly wrong when they said "There ain't no such as a free lunch." While true in many ways, TANSTAAFL ignorest the great willingness of people to donate time, effort, articles, etc. In fact, I've put many thousands of hours into the Cypherpunks list, for which I've received not a single centime of compensation. And I have no problem with this, provided it remains voluntary.) --Tim May Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^756839 - 1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: Fascinating troll with forged newgroups
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 03:00 AM 4/4/96 -0800, you wrote: >Looks like the Nazis forged newgroup messages for rec.fag-bashing, >rec.org.kkk, and 100 RFD'd groups in order to get their little messages >across. > >How entertaining. What a marvelous new form of net.vandalism they've >discovered. Or is this not new? Oh, no, this sort of thing is not new. It happened more before the Great Renaming, but it's not new. The other possibility is it's troll trying to make it _look_ like the Nazis did it.

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Re:Why pay???
by mccoy＠communities.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 3:44 PM 4/4/96, kreidl(a)newrock.com is rumored to have typed: > [...regarding CPLite subscriptions...] > > Why would I pay if I can get it for free this way?????? Because then useless noise (such as the message you posted) would automagically get filtered out. Some people do not have the time to filter the noise from signal on mailing lists and this service caters to their needs. jim

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Re:
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 11:52 PM 4/4/96, AndrÈ Gil wrote: > unsubscrive * agil.home(a)mail.telepac.pt > unsubscrive * agil.home(a)mail.telepac.pt > unsubscrive * agil.home(a)mail.telepac.pt What the hell is going on? We seem to be under attack by foreigners. --Tim Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed

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HANDS UP!
by etoy＠hijack.org 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

HI THERE! THIS IS etoy! "the digital hijack" is NOW running ! the internet-underground has decided: it is definitely time to blast SOUND and ACTION into the net !!! our software-agents have invaded the main searchservers... ++++for more information check out : http://www.hijack.org/++++++++++ or get kidnapped live --> go to infoseek (netsearch-button on your browser) and search for: UNDERGROUND - CENSORSHIP - DISCO - XTC - CLINTON - PORSCHE - CRACK - KRAFTWERK - ELVIS - TERROR - PENTHOUSE - SEGA - MONDRIAN - SEXPISTOLS - FIREARMS - TARANTINO - DJ - STONES - NETWORKS - BASE - CRIME - WAR - BUSINESS - WOMEN - NET - SOCIETY - ART - CASTRO - PARADISE - ATHLETICS - PULP - CYBER - YELLO - PETSHOPBOYS - REM - HUSTLER - BITCH - GUEVARA - SEVESO - MELODYMAKER - PORNO - GABBER - ROLLERBLADES - REBEL - OASIS - COMMUNICATIONS - PLAYBOY - BELGIUM - ORB - AND MANY MORE... these keywords will all appear on the TOP 10 - LIST. take the link to hijack.org to get the hijack-experience like millions of bored internet-users... download the hijackers-sound, get the best pictures and help us free our friend KEVIN D. MITNICK, THE SUPERHACKER (charged for electronic-terrorism, maximum sentence: 460 years prison) ! we would be very happy to welcome you on our site. spread this new internet-lifestyle to your friends and to internet-freaks + surfers ! this is a underground art-project not a bastard-business mail. our grab robot "etoy.IVANA" got your email-address by cruising the net. for the hijack-crew etoy MARTIN KUBLI email mailme(a)etoy.com fax ++41 1 363 35 57 _______________________________________________________________________ http://www.hijack.org/ for highres-pictures: ftp.etoy.com /press etoy: leaving reality behind...abusing technology...flashing the net

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Re: The Law Loft: Surviving the Biometric I.D. Card
by E. ALLEN SMITH 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: Rich Graves <llurch(a)networking.stanford.edu> >The replacement of income tax with sales and real estate taxes -- despite >the fact that such a move would be incredibly regressive -- would be a >very good thing for freedom. Agreed (re:freedom) ... but why are you claiming that real estate taxes are regressive? Unless there's some nonsense like Louisiana's homestead exemption (own your own home, get 100,000 subtracted off of the value for property tax purposes... which is just as biased against apartment-dwellers and renters as the morgage interest deduction), real estate taxes should be even or "progressive" in their distribution of the tax burden. -Allen

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Re: Why pay???
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 3:14 AM 4/5/96, Charles Bell wrote: >The fact that you choose not to charge for your time does not make your >time worthless. The value your voluntary efforts add should be assigned >due compensation even if you choose to waive it. I didn't say my time is "worthless." But the term "worthless" (and "worth" and "value" and suchlike) are not defined in absolute terms, only in market terms. Commodities, including labor, are valued by what others will exchange for them. The notion that my efforts "should be assigned due compensation" is a flawed view of how markets determine prices and wages. There is no "assignment" absent a market. (On the other hand, I certainly will not object if Charles calls together his like-minded friends, evaluates my postings over the past several years, and "assigns due compensation." Hey, it won't cost me anything. But somehow I doubt I'll see any of this due compensation that Charles and Company assign to me.) This gets into economic issues, so I'll drop it here. I just wanted to correct this misapprehension that I was claiming my time is "worthless." >The failure to take such contributions into account is one of the most >serious flaws in all current economic paradigms. I think this will become >more apparent in decades to come, as old concepts of `work' and `jobs' >obsolesce. All the more reason to get beyond our current system, where governments set minimum wages, impose salary freezes, sue companies for charging too much (or too little) for products, and interfere in economic transactions in many other ways. With strong cryptography, at least the purely crypto-anarchic transactions will be this way. --Tim May Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^756839 - 1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: Article on PGP Viacrypt
by A5113643667＠attpls.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dear Cypherpunks, ---------------- Received: by attpls.net with Magicmail;3 Apr 96 09:19:59 UT Date: 5 Apr 96 02:14:38 UT Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com (owner-cypherpunks) From: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com (owner-cypherpunks) Subject: Re: Article on PGP Viacrypt To: walter(a)cithe302.cithep.caltech.edu (Chris Walter) cc: cypherpunks(a)toad.com (Cypherpunks) Message-Id: <199604030451.UAA06038(a)slack.lne.com> In-Reply-To: <<WALTER.96Apr2124421(a)cithe302.cithep.caltech.edu> from "Chris Walter" at Apr 2, 96 08:44:20 pm> X-X-AUTHENTICATION-WARNING: toad.com: majordom set sender to owner-cypherpunks using -f I would have to agree that if businesses are to use PGP that "good" key escrow MUST be provided. Peace ..Tom Chris Walter writes: > > Hi Folks, > > There is an interesting article by Simon Garfinkle in this > morning's(Apr 2nd) electronic version of the San Jose Mercury news. > Its on the index page so I don't think you need an account to read > it. > > The article deals with the new key management features and extensions > in Viacrypt and how PRZ is upset since it allows employers to read > their employees messages. I read it this morning. The gist is that this new evil PGP lets your employer SPY ON EVERYTHING YOU DO! And was written in about that tone. I was disappointed by the article. I don't know if Simson is deluded about the use of Viacrypt PGP, or the article got hacked up by by ignorant/malicious editors, or my understanding of Viacrypt PGP is competely wrong. I thought the purpose to putting key escrow (that's real escrow not GAK) into PGP was to allow its use for business purposes. Often in business use you're not too concerned with keeping secrets from your employer or fellow employees, but do want to keep those secrets within the company. And there is a real concern that you might encrypt company-secret stuff and then fall off your motorcycle and get run over by a truck, leaving your securely-encrypted company secrets suddenly inaccessable to the company... Key escrow, with the keys held by the company, is designed to prevent this problem. The article failed to mention that you're not prevented from using a non-escrow PGP for personal secrets (could Viacrypt PGP prevent you from using PGP 2.6.2? I don't think so) and made it sound like Viacrypt PGP is designed to allow nosy employers to spy on employees encrypted email. I guess it would, if the employers were that nosy and the employees dumb enough to use company-provided escrowed PGP to send personal secrets. But that theory's about as credible as the Clipper chip proponents's "dumb crooks" theory where crooks would want encrypted phones but be dumb enough to forget that the Government held the keys... Simson's the one main-line journalist who writes about internet and computer issues that I still think has a clue, and has written a pretty good book about PGP, so I'd be suprised if he got this so wrong. On the other hand, I haven't used this new Viacrypt PGP and I'm going on what I think that escrowed PGP is really good for. Maybe my feeling about that have blinded me to reality. Or, most likely, the editor(s) hacked the story up either out of ignorance or to present a viewpoint that they had already decided they want to present, truth be damned. If I wanted to present a conspiracy theory about the government wanting to discourage use of PGP for businesses, this would be the place to do it. If PGP gains a foothold in the businessplace it'll be nearly impossible to eradicate, given the fact that (big) business essentially runs the country. Key escrow will make PGP a lot more usefull to businesses, increasing its use. I'm sure you can fill in the rest of the theory. > http://www.sjmercury.com/business/priv401.htm > -- Eric Murray ericm(a)lne.com ericm(a)motorcycle.com http://www.lne.com/ericm PGP keyid:E03F65E5 fingerprint:50 B0 A2 4C 7D 86 FC 03 92 E8 AC E6 7E 27 29 AF --- NOTICE: This message originally included graphics and/or sounds which can only be received by AT&T PersonaLink(sm) subscribers. You received only the text portion(s) of the message. Please contact the sender for information that was deleted. To learn how to send and receive graphics, voice and text messages via AT&T PersonaLink Services, call 1-800-936-LINK. ----------------

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Re: Video retraces as a source of entropy...
by Deranged Mutant 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On 4 Apr 96 at 5:58, Laszlo Vecsey wrote: [..] > > In pseudo-C: > > > > int retrace(void) { // test for video retrace > > #ifdef __MSDOS__ > > return (port[0x3da] & 8); // Some VGA, maybe EGA cards > > #else > > // your OS here > > #endif > > } > > [..] > > x = 0; > > while (!retrace()) x++; > As far as I know, while(retrace()) will loop until vertical retrace > begins, and then you call while(!retrace()) and that will loop until > vertical retrace is over. (Or it may be the other way around). Sloppy pseudo-C code. The code I've been experimenting with waits until it's no longer in a vertical retrace (if one is still active since the last sample) and then collects the sample when the next vertical retrace occurs. [..] > What if the screen is filled with different colors, or shapes. On some > monitors you can actually see the size of the screen changing, warping out > a little.. maybe the time for retrace will be different when painting > screens with different data. I haven't done a lot of tests yet.... and even then, it's probably very system specific. Rob. --- Send a blank message with the subject "send pgp-key" to <WlkngOwl(a)unix.asb.com> for a copy of my PGP key.

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Re: Why pay???
by frantz＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 7:14 PM 4/4/96 -0800, Charles Bell wrote: >On Thu, 4 Apr 1996, Timothy C. May wrote: > >> >> (Goldwater and Heinlein got it slightly wrong when they said "There ain't >> no such as a free lunch." While true in many ways, TANSTAAFL ignorest the >> great willingness of people to donate time, effort, articles, etc. In fact, >> I've put many thousands of hours into the Cypherpunks list, for which I've >> received not a single centime of compensation. And I have no problem with >> this, provided it remains voluntary.) >> > >The fact that you choose not to charge for your time does not make your >time worthless. The value your voluntary efforts add should be assigned >due compensation even if you choose to waive it. > >The failure to take such contributions into account is one of the most >serious flaws in all current economic paradigms. I think this will become >more apparent in decades to come, as old concepts of `work' and `jobs' >obsolesce. IMHO, another failure is that not all compensation can be expressed in money. Feeling good about making a contribution is an example. Another is the "guaranteed" place in heaven for the suicide bomber. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Bill Frantz | The CDA means | Periwinkle -- Computer Consulting (408)356-8506 | lost jobs and | 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz(a)netcom.com | dead teenagers | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA

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Re:
by Rich Burroughs 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 08:37 PM 4/4/96 -0800, you wrote: >At 11:52 PM 4/4/96, AndrÈ Gil wrote: >> unsubscrive * agil.home(a)mail.telepac.pt [snip] >What the hell is going on? We seem to be under attack by foreigners. > >--Tim It's hard to understand. I can't velieve it. >Voycott "Vig Vrother Inside" software! >We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed Rich ______________________________________________________________________ Rich Burroughs richieb(a)teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~richieb See my Blue Ribbon Page at http://www.teleport.com/~richieb/blueribbon New EF zine "cause for alarm" - http://www.teleport.com/~richieb/cause

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