July 2002 - cypherpunks-legacy

NewsForge: Commerce Dept. to invite consumer groups to discuss DRM (fwd)
by Jim Choate 23 Jul '02

23 Jul '02

http://newsforge.com/newsforge/02/07/21/1941202.shtml?tid=4 -- ____________________________________________________________________ When I die, I would like to be born again as me. Hugh Hefner ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com jchoate(a)open-forge.org www.open-forge.org --------------------------------------------------------------------

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Promote Your Business
by Manager 23 Jul '02

23 Jul '02

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Re: Do we need a national ID plan?
by Anonymous 23 Jul '02

23 Jul '02

On Mon, 22 Jul 2002 17:22:34 -0700, you wrote: > > Wouldn't this requirement violate the probable cause requirement for seizures > of a person which been defined by a series of cases, beginning with Terry v. Ohio > , 392 U.S. 1, 88 S.Ct. 1868, 20 L.Ed.2d 889 (1968)? > > steve You are quite idealistic. Neither the Constitution nor case law matters. Neither constrains the behavior of law enforcement. http://www.aclu.org/news/2002/n022002c.html "ACLU of CO Sues Federal and State Law Enforcement Agencies Over Illegal SWAT Raid on Family FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE ednesday, February 20, 2002 DENVER--The American Civil Liberties Union of Colorado filed a lawsuit today alleging that federal and state law enforcement agents violated the constitutional rights of a Pueblo family when they conducted an illegal SWAT-type raid on the family's home with no warrant or other legal authority. Once again, the war on drugs misses the target and instead scores a direct hit on the Constitution, said Mark Silverstein, Legal Director of the ACLU of Colorado. These government agents had no search warrant, no arrest warrant, and no lawful authority whatsoever. They carried out this armed home invasion in flagrant disregard of the Fourth Amendment, which forbids unreasonable searches and arrests without probable cause. According to the ACLU lawsuit, which was filed on behalf of Dan and Rosa Unis and their two college-aged sons, on August 19, 2000, the family was peacefully enjoying the privacy of their home when black-masked, black-helmeted men brandishing automatic weapons and wearing all-black uniforms with no insignias suddenly burst into the house unannounced, kicked the family's dog across the floor and ordered the entire family to "get on the fucking floor." " Don't forget to be patriotic.

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by cristy_16＠hotmail.com 23 Jul '02

23 Jul '02

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by Special Deals 23 Jul '02

23 Jul '02

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Are the Feds Wimps or What?
by Duncan Frissell 22 Jul '02

22 Jul '02

So far the massive crackdown by the Feds that has stripped me of my civil liberties hasn't managed to do much. They have to work a bit harder. I'm back to not showing ID to get into work just like before the war. The states where I choose not to obtain a drivers license have upped their ID requirements for initial license applications but I already have one and don't patronize them in any case. They still let foreigners drive with foreign licenses so I will become a foreigner if they get too uppity. Flight delays only slightly worse than usual (particularly since I mostly fly internationally and have always shown my passport). Domestic flight ID fascism is 6 years old this August so no change there. As far as we know, only a little more than 1000 detained out of a pop of 270 megs. I was expecting that we would at least make WWII levels -- 200,000+ out of a population of 132 megs. I guess there could be a few more internees but they'd be tough to hide. Too many others would note their absence. I thinks the Feds are just to wimpy to indulge in actual oppression these days. At least on a wholesale basis. Maybe I'm wrong but I need more evidence first. -- Posted by Duncan Frissell to The Technoptimist at 7/20/2002 9:06:27 PM Powered by Blogger Pro

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RE: Are the Feds Wimps or What?
by Anonymous 22 Jul '02

22 Jul '02

On Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:43:36 -0400, you wrote: > > Well, the other possible interpretation is that the Feds are not > black-at-heart, Big Brother, neo Stalinist fascist JBTs > pouncing on any opportunity to make confetti of the Bill of Rights; > but rather are actually trying to respond to 9/11 with a minimal > impact on US Citizens. > > ...but of course, that would be an unpopular interpretation on > this mailing list. Popularity, or lack thereof, of acts and plans by the government, which the government itself holds secret, provides little support for the "fascisim arising school", nor for the "just looking out for our citizens" school. We are left to look back to history, and to see if we find any pattern of result from when extensive surveillance power, secret courts, secret detentions, suspension of the writ of habeas corpus, all during an undeclared war. Or we can see if we believe that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. But beyond this, did you see George W. Bush smile just after 9/11 when he said "This war is going to take a very long time"? Do you recall the popularity of Winston Churchill during WWII, and how he was immediately dumped after the German surrender? Do you recall how the US-Iraq war took Bush I to grand heights of popularity, but by election time, the war was over, there were no heroes marching, and it came down to "it's the economy stupid"? Now what did Bush II learn from this: Either 1) Make sure that Americans know you are on top of their concerns about the economy and you know how it is affecting everyday people, and keep the economy going strong. or 2) Even if there are no attacks on the US by Al Qaeda after 9/11, keep a war hysteria going and show military force as the basis of maintaining wartime support levels from wartime patriotism.

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RE: Are the Feds Wimps or What?
by Trei, Peter 22 Jul '02

22 Jul '02

> Duncan Frissell[SMTP:frissell@panix.com] > > > So far the massive crackdown by the Feds that has stripped me of my civil > liberties hasn't managed to do much. They have to work a bit harder. > > I'm back to not showing ID to get into work just like before the war. > > The states where I choose not to obtain a drivers license have upped > their ID requirements for initial license applications but I already have > one and don't patronize them in any case. They still let foreigners drive > with foreign licenses so I will become a foreigner if they get too > uppity. > > Flight delays only slightly worse than usual (particularly since I mostly > fly internationally and have always shown my passport). Domestic flight > ID fascism is 6 years old this August so no change there. > > As far as we know, only a little more than 1000 detained out of a pop of > 270 megs. I was expecting that we would at least make WWII levels -- > 200,000+ out of a population of 132 megs. I guess there could be a few > more internees but they'd be tough to hide. Too many others would note > their absence. > > I thinks the Feds are just to wimpy to indulge in actual oppression these > days. At least on a wholesale basis. > > Maybe I'm wrong but I need more evidence first. > > -- > Posted by Duncan Frissell to The Technoptimist at 7/20/2002 9:06:27 PM > > Powered by Blogger Pro > Well, the other possible interpretation is that the Feds are not black-at-heart, Big Brother, neo Stalinist fascist JBTs pouncing on any opportunity to make confetti of the Bill of Rights; but rather are actually trying to respond to 9/11 with a minimal impact on US Citizens. ...but of course, that would be an unpopular interpretation on this mailing list. -------- The truth probably lies somewhere in between. Peter Trei

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ADV: STOP CREDITORS NOW!
by davidsanders＠americandebtsettlement.com 22 Jul '02

22 Jul '02

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by Nice one 22 Jul '02

22 Jul '02

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