August 2001 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: News: "U.S. May Help Chinese Evade Net Censorship"
by jamesd＠echeque.com 02 Sep '01

02 Sep '01

-- On 30 Aug 2001, at 14:52, Faustine wrote: > And as long as you have companies like ZeroKnowledge who are > willing/gullible/greedy/just plain fucking stupid enough to > sell their betas to the NSA, you never will. There is nothing wrong with selling betas to the NSA. I make my crypto source code available to the NSA, and to everyone else. Everyone should do this. Anyone that fails to do that is up to no good. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG 67dYNaWosvJqHSU041w2pF90I0cE+VHfMhQxInsf 4Is1TS6sNGfG1fhrdBPgbEbNEPYuv+XqX9gM0Ua0i

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RE: The Privacy/Untraceability Sweet Spot
by Aimee Farr 02 Sep '01

02 Sep '01

Reese wrote: > >This is not legal advice. It's an obituary. :) > > Owning a vehicle that will exceed the speed limit is not a crime. > Driving a vehicle that will exceed the speed limit is not a crime. > Exceeding the speed limit is a crime and is a ticketable offense, > at the least. > > Mechanisms to maintain privacy and anonymity are no different, use of Damn it, Reese, I didn't say that. Can anybody here read between the lines? Helloooo? *echo-echo-echo* > those same mechanisms to commit crime is not a death knell for those > mechanisms just as manufacturers do not stop producing and selling > vehicles that are capable of exceeding the speed limit, even though > some people do speed and are ticketed or given warnings, at least. > > You are entirely too smug and happy, at the thought of these various > mechanisms useful for preserving privacy and anonymity going the way > of the dodo. That is not my attitude at all, Reese. I obviously like Tim's Blacknet. However, I don't like it being characterized as a subversive tool, and damn sure not in terms that might indicate a criminal conspiracy for shopping out secrets to Libya. > Tim may be correct, in his assessment on your deserving > what you receive. Oh, Noooooo!!!!! > >> think of people selling their expertise when some guild says they are > >> forbidden to. > > > >I talked about this before, as an OSINT channel for the U.S. Government. > > > >o BlackNet has legitimate intelligence applications. > > It also has legitimate applicability for Joe Sixpack and Suzy Winecooler, > who don't want a zillion ads and cookies clogging their bandwidth and > cache, who don't want targetted ads or their surfing habits tracked and > monitored, who certainly don't want their health insurance premiums to > go up after they do research on some rare, incurable disease they are > mildly curious about or after researching a more common ailment when a > friend happens to be diagnosed - to lean on those old standbys. No shit. > >o Anonymity can be a problem. You need authentication. You would like > >blinded biometrics. > > The maintenance of privacy can be a problem, from a marketers POV, other > things can be viewed as problems too, when the end consumer has proper > control of self-identifying information. If the money is good, that > level of authentication can be conducted in meatspace if it is truly > needed - most times, it is not. Again, I was speaking within the confines of a very limited application where authentication can be rather critical. > >o I would think the ROI would be where you can shoehorn into existing > >intelligence channels and groundwork. That's either a sovereign, an > >intermediary wrapped in the skirts of a sovereign, a defense contractor, > >or an untouchable intermediary. If not bona-fide intelligence, you're > >left with the criminal element, IRA and so forth. > > You leave many possible things out, you present a false summation of all > the possible uses of Blacknet and maintenance of anonymity. As I stated, I was examining it in the context of an _intelligence application_. I wonder if that's a good contract, but obviously not....why do I even bother? *sigh* > >Most move product and still have > >distribution channels. Yeah, the IRA would like digital cash, they are > >buying arms with offshore debit cards. > > This event by people acting criminally in another country (according to > the rules imposed by past-rulers of that other country, heh) should be > used to shape and mold US domestic policy and legislation for the care > and feeding of US citizen-units how, exactly? I was merely pointing out that people that crypto does not "beam" product. Solve the ship-submarine ditching problem if you want to help that scum. > >o It seems like _damn bad timing_ for a discussion in this context. > > Bad timing? Who is disadvantaged by the timing of this discussion? > Your handler said to slow the conversation down while they run some > numbers and gets some surveillance in place, or something? They've caught on to our "slow-the-conversation" tactic!! Oh, whatever shall we do now? *slap to side of face* "Run some numbers?" What? I flag posts in here that might qualify for Title I interceptions. This month is looking to be a record-breaker. Excuse me, my "handlers" are calling.....Sorry, I'm not allowed to talk about this. > >This should be couched in terms of a beneficial application, rather > >than something subversive. > > Principle is like that. You don't like what others have to say? You > should remove your own right to freedom of speech, before you attempt > to censor others. (Good luck, once you've effectively removed your own > right to free speech, on censoring anyone else). Damnit, I'm not censoring anybody. I believe in the First Amendment. It's such a good source of intelligence and so often leads to probable cause. *kidding* > As a lawyer, you know or should know that most (if not all) of the most > significant constitutional rights cases to be heard by the courts have > involved criminals and other undesirables and unlikelies who pushed the > edge of the envelope in their own defense. Just because I have a dislike > for Charles Manson, does not mean I support movements to suspend all the > rights affirmed under the First, Second, Fourth, Fifth and other of the > various Amendments we collectively refer to as the Bill of Rights, for > example. *applause* > >It's like the fall of Knights Templar in > >here. What happened to the pilgrims' safe passage? > > When it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck, it > probably isn't a pilgrim. Real ducks neither quack nor waddle, Reese. I'm going to go outside now, and talk to snails. ~Aimee

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Borders UK and privacy
by Allan Hunt-Badiner 02 Sep '01

02 Sep '01

BORDERS U.K. USES FACE-RECOGNITION TECHNOLOGY TO MONITOR CUSTOMERS Borders Books in the U.K. is employing SmartFace technology to compare the "unique digital face-maps" of customers against similar face-maps of known shoplifters. Privacy advocates such as the director of the Scottish Human Rights Centre are outraged by the development: "I can see why they don't want shoplifters in their store, but I would question whether this is proportionate to what they are trying to do. We are talking about having a bank of pictures of everyone going into the shop -- I would consider that a serious breach of privacy. There is no control over what they do with those pictures, or how they are kept -- are they safe? Nor is there much control over whether Borders could sell the information on, or whether people will actually know this is happening." (Sunday Herald 26 Aug 2001) http://www.sundayherald.com/18007

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Re: The Privacy/Untraceability Sweet Spot
by Nomen Nescio 01 Sep '01

01 Sep '01

Tim May writes: > And in both of these examples I gave, "Nomen Nescio" took a literal > reading of the examples. "But Ireland is not a communist regime!" "But > they are not Jews!" > > Examples, like the half dozen I gave, are designed to convey to the > reader the range of uses, needs, and justifications. The specific stands > for the general. > > Both Nomen and Aimee are remarkably block-headed in seeing the big > picture. You need to read your own posting more carefully: > Draw this graph I outlined. Think about where the markets are for tools > for privacy and untraceability. Realize that many of the "far out' sweet > spot applications are not necessarily immoral: think of freedom fighters > in communist-controlled regimes, think of distribution of birth control > information in Islamic countries, think of Jews hiding their assets in > Swiss bank accounts, think of revolutionaries overthrowing bad > governments, think of people avoiding unfair or confiscatory taxes, > think of people selling their expertise when some guild says they are > forbidden to. You yourself were the one who raised the issue of morality. Your examples were intended to be cases of "sweet spot" (that is, profitable) applications which were also morally acceptable. It is entirely appropriate in that context to examine whether these examples meet the test of both being profitable and moral. When you were asked where were all the supposed wealthy freedom fighters in communist controlled regimes, you came back with Osama bin Laden. Do you think that bin Laden, if he succeeded, would bring in an era of enlightened government supporting individual liberties? The man is a religious fanatic. He is associated with the Taliban in Afghanistan, which he helped put into power. This is the same Taliban which has destroyed priceless cultural treasures because they were not Islamic, forbids women to work or attend school, and sends armed police to attack when men and women eat in the same room behind closed doors. Oh, and last week they banned the Internet. Osama bin Laden, a perfect poster child for the cypherpunks. We're definitely not seeing the same "big picture" if you think he is a good example of someone cypherpunks should support.

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Re: secure IRC/messaging successor
by Derek Atkins 01 Sep '01

01 Sep '01

gale has scaling problems to large numbers of users, in particular for group messaging. -derek Eugene Leitl <Eugene.Leitl(a)lrz.uni-muenchen.de> writes: > Gale http://www.gale.org/ seems a well thought out infrastructure. Is the > consensus "this is it", or have I missed any alternatives? -- Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/ PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH warlord(a)MIT.EDU PGP key available --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo(a)wasabisystems.com

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Re: News: "U.S. May Help Chinese Evade Net Censorship"
by jamesd＠echeque.com 01 Sep '01

01 Sep '01

-- On 30 Aug 2001, at 14:41, Faustine wrote: > Of course it has a trap door, that's probably the whole point > of getting it over there in the first place. And by the way, if > you're going to question SafeWeb for cooperating with CIA, you > might as well criticize ZeroKnowledge for selling a boatload of > the Freedom beta to the NSA in 1999 as well. What did they > think they wanted it for, farting around on Usenet? I bet they > had that sucker reverse-engineered and compromised in two > minutes flat. Stands to reason. I think it most unlikely that they could compromise rot-13 in two minutes flat, and as for reverse engineering, any decent crypto system makes its engineering publicly available, so that reverse engineering is quite unnecessary. No one should ever use a system that has to be reverse engineered. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG vmwKl1+31thMlrC2hl4XzwiD6EPSMqrBX8OqN5J0 4qFXhFjCIcqlGNHPzxbUC4Kfz95pkdg5H60E8+j1v

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Re: Re: kuro5hin.org || How Home-Schooling Harms the Nation
by mmotyka＠lsil.com 01 Sep '01

01 Sep '01

measl(a)mfn.org wrote : <zap> my old stuff : >> Another facet is that the well-to-do are attempting to remove their >> funds from the systems so they can use those funds to educate their >> children as they choose. A voucher system would surely benefit me >> financially. This is a reasonable desire but it will have a negative >> effect on the public school systems and a subsequent negative effect on >> the society as a whole. > >So I must educate my children according to the public good, and not the >good of the kids themselves? Fuck you. > Learn to read poopyhead (isn't that now the official CP insult?). Look at the part you snipped : I'm not saying that it (vouchers or other defunding) should be ruled out but you should at least think about the implications a bit. All I said was that actions can have unintended consequences. Make well considered choices. Look at the power industry deregulation in CA. Too much, too quickly and poorly crafted. By all means let's improve the educational opportunities in this country but not with some stooopid knee-jerk approach. Try and do it in one fell swoop based on right-wing war chants and I'll bet you do more harm than good. >> I know the masses are a bit thick but do you >> want them to be even thicker? > >To be frank, sending kids to public schools is practically *requiring* >that they become "thick", merely in order to _survive_. > This statement is neither entirely true nor entirely false but it sure as hell is a knee-jerk reaction to the issue. Sounds like the sort of foolishness that Rush Limbaugh vomits on the airwaves. >> I wish there were more ( and better ) educational choices and that those >> choices were reflected reasonably in the financial systems but every >> proposal I've seen so far sucks moose bladder through a hairy straw. > >While you claim to favor choices, you have just argued that these choices >should not be available. > Uh, nope, that's not what I said. I said I would be in favor of carefully considered proposals. Proposals that are fair to individuals and beneficial to the community. Again, the two goals are neither completely compatible nor mutually exclusive. >Make up your mind. > I have : good ideas, thumbs up, bad ideas, thumbs down. >-- >Yours, >J.A. Terranson >sysadmin(a)mfn.org > Fuck you back, Mike

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[PGP-USERS] ANNOUNCE: PGP Source Code Now Available For Download
by Will Price 31 Aug '01

31 Aug '01

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 PGP Security is pleased to announce the first public release of its cryptographic source code in downloadable form. The PGPsdk Source Code 2.1.1 release is now available on the PGP website at: http://www.pgp.com/downloads/pgpsdk-agreement.asp PGP has a long tradition of releasing source code for purposes of Peer Review to ensure the integrity of the software. For the first time under new US Government export regulations, this source code release is being made available electronically for download to both US and International customers. This source code release is exactly the same code used as the cryptographic foundation for all of the PGP Desktop and Server products. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 7.1 iQA/AwUBO5AZHKy7FkvPc+xMEQJGmQCeLXx16HNNyLm1CR5XN4YSulsS7wsAoO93 lS0MKt16HZ5n9PisAC+VUtf0 =Iuii -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- .................................................................... Unsubscribe: <mailto:pgp-users-listbot@cryptorights.org?body=unsubscribe> Automated Help/Info: <mailto:pgp-users-listbot@cryptorights.org?body=help> List Homepage: <http://cryptorights.org/pgp-users/> List Admin (human): <mailto:pgp-users-admin-human@cryptorights.org> Please do not send administrative commands to the list address! Thanks. --- end forwarded text --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)ibuc.com> The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo(a)wasabisystems.com

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[PGP-USERS] ANNOUNCE: PGP Source Code Now Available For Download
by Will Price 31 Aug '01

31 Aug '01

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 PGP Security is pleased to announce the first public release of its cryptographic source code in downloadable form. The PGPsdk Source Code 2.1.1 release is now available on the PGP website at: http://www.pgp.com/downloads/pgpsdk-agreement.asp PGP has a long tradition of releasing source code for purposes of Peer Review to ensure the integrity of the software. For the first time under new US Government export regulations, this source code release is being made available electronically for download to both US and International customers. This source code release is exactly the same code used as the cryptographic foundation for all of the PGP Desktop and Server products. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 7.1 iQA/AwUBO5AZHKy7FkvPc+xMEQJGmQCeLXx16HNNyLm1CR5XN4YSulsS7wsAoO93 lS0MKt16HZ5n9PisAC+VUtf0 =Iuii -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- .................................................................... Unsubscribe: <mailto:pgp-users-listbot@cryptorights.org?body=unsubscribe> Automated Help/Info: <mailto:pgp-users-listbot@cryptorights.org?body=help> List Homepage: <http://cryptorights.org/pgp-users/> List Admin (human): <mailto:pgp-users-admin-human@cryptorights.org> Please do not send administrative commands to the list address! Thanks. --- end forwarded text --- end forwarded text -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)ibuc.com> The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo(a)wasabisystems.com

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Miami Herald: Reno looks like she's ready to make a run
by Jim Choate 31 Aug '01

31 Aug '01

http://www.miami.com/herald/content/news/local/florida/digdocs/029465.htm -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ natsugusa ya...tsuwamonodomo ga...yume no ato summer grass...those mighty warriors'...dream-tracks Matsuo Basho The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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