July 2001 - cypherpunks-legacy

RE: Killing the G8 Anarchists,
by Faustine 22 Jul '01

22 Jul '01

On Fri, 20 Jul 2001, Faustine wrote: Jim wrote: > Speaking for myself, I'm not "owned" by anyone. I obey state and federal > laws though, if that's what you mean. >>Even when they're unconstitutional I bet... >>Some American. ..so does this mean you're going to be the first to share with the readership exactly *which* state and federal laws you break on a regular basis? LOL ridiculous. > You don't need a gun to enforce ownership, what do you think contract and property law is all about. >>Which is worthless without the explicit and well advertised threat of >>violence. See G8 demonstrations today for a explicit example. "all power flows from the barrel of a gun?" Maybe so. But most people who sign contracts are more motivated by the threat of lawsuits, jail and fines than the direct threat of violence. > Sometimes words or a fist do just as well... What any of this has to do > with supporting the 2nd Amendment right to bear arms is totally unclear. >>See G8 today. Nothing I see there really points to personal disarmament being a wise course of action. > By the way, why don't you think people have a right to defend their own > lives and property? >Don't the people demonstrating have a right to defend their lives and >property? Absolutely, no doubt about it. So how does it follow that this somehow makes it okay to harm other people and destroy their property without being held accountable for it by the people themselves? Legitimate protest is one thing, but the problem is, people who are out to "fuck shit up" aren't too discriminate about their targets. If your business was in the middle of a riot zone, would you just choose the "roll over and die" option? Somehow I think not. >>Their claim is it is being abused and destroyed. There are too many disparate groups under the umbrella of "anti- globalization" to be able to sum it up into a single claim like that. Abused and destroyed? What, how, when, by whom? How can you hope to make policy around some vague generalization. More analysis, less rhetoric. >>Where is >>their spokesperson at the G8? Where is there forum? That's what NGOs are for. There are some interesting books about their growing importance and the role of technology in making it happen that are really encouraging...have you seen a book by David Ronfeldt and John Arquilla called "The Zapatista Social Netwar in Mexico"? I don't know if you can get a online copy somewhere but it's worth a look. > When I'm attacked, why shouldn't I fight back? >>Hypocrite. >>Freedom for me, not for thee... Where did that come from, I believe 100% in the right to be left alone. Anyone on this earth can do whatever they want, but attack me and be prepared to PAY: what could be more honest and straightforward than that. It's just insane to expect people to put themselves at the mercy of anyone who comes along: what are you really saying here, feel free to fill me in! A great place to start might be defining "anti-globalism", the reasons behind the need for violent indiscriminate protest, and how any of that bears a relation to the second amendment. Sheesh... ~Faustine.

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State appeals court says ignorance no defense in wiretapping
by Declan McCullagh 22 Jul '01

22 Jul '01

http://www.sunspot.net/news/printedition/bal-ar.deibler18jul18.story?coll=b… 2001-07-18 05:35:39 Court boosts taping laws Appeals judges say ignorance no defense in wiretapping cases; 'Willfully' is key word; Decision stems from surveillance of Edgewater home By Andrea F. Siegel Sun Staff July 18, 2001 In a decision that will benefit prosecutors, the state's highest court ruled yesterday that a person need not know it is illegal to bug conversations to be convicted of wiretapping. The 5-2 Court of Appeals opinion sets aside what had been the prevailing interpretation, in which the lower appellate court said a person who violates the state wiretapping law must know that what he did was illegal. The standard in yesterday's ruling says a defendant can be convicted if the wiretap was done on purpose, not inadvertently. ...

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Killing the G8 Anarchists
by Tim May 22 Jul '01

22 Jul '01

I've watched this list with bemusement as several of you have cheered on the G8 "Anti-Globalist" black-shirted twentysomethings. Watching the street riots in Genoa on CNN, watching the supermarkets and gas stations being torched and vandalized, all I can think is this: WHY AREN'T THE OWNERS OF THESE PROPERTIES DEFENDING THEIR PROPERTY? Why are't shop owners spraying the looters with automatic weapons fire? Because, of course, Europeans are disarmed. Not like our Korean and white merchants in L.A., who used shotguns and AR-15s to kill the blacks and Mexicans who tried to burn down their stores. The property-destroying "anarchists" are giving anarchy a bad name. Seems to me that killing several dozen of them would send a good message. --Tim May -- Timothy C. May tcmay(a)got.net Corralitos, California Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns

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Re: Rallies on Monday
by Black Unicorn 22 Jul '01

22 Jul '01

Note: Adobe- owing to the kidnapping of its big wig some time ago- is very paranoid. Please be aware and be cautious as they may be prone to overreact to taunting. (Do not taunt happy-fun-acrobat). ----- Original Message ----- From: "Len Sassaman" <rabbi(a)quickie.net> To: <dc-stuff(a)dis.org>; <cypherpunks(a)einstein.ssz.com>; <free-sklyarov(a)zork.net>; <hemos(a)slashdot.org> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 6:39 PM Subject: Rallies on Monday > http://www.boycottadobe.com/pages/rallies.html > > is now the home for the rally announcements. If you're planning on > attending one, please visit this page for info. If you're holding one, > please let us know so we can add it to the page. > > Thanks! > > -- > > Len Sassaman > > Security Architect | > Technology Consultant | "Let be be finale of seem." > | > http://sion.quickie.net | --Wallace Stevens >

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Re: Meatspace,
by Faustine 22 Jul '01

22 Jul '01

Jim wrote: >> > > > there are plenty of SDS and >> > > > Black Panthers running around today, the vast majority never >> > > > went to jail. > > Faustine: >> >> Of course they didn't. The bottom line is that their >> >> organizations were torn apart by operations conducted against >> >> them, > > James A. Donald: >> > This is incorrect. The black panthers were torn apart because they >> > murdered dissidents, and "dissidents" came to include anyone who >> > wondered if Newton was snorting too much of the Black Panther >> > funds. The same is true to a greater or lesser extent of most of >> > the other armed communist organizations. The first target of those >> > arms was always themselves, to a greater or lesser extent, though >> > this was most dramatic and bloody in the case of the Black >> > Panthers. > > Faustine: >> The FBI exploited this mindset to the hilt--COINTELPRO kept them all >> twitching like galvanic frogs. > > To blame COINTELPRO for radical leftist internal violence is as silly > as blaming Pol Pot and the Ukraine famine on the CIA. > > If those radicals were being murdered by the feds, the radical left > would have been eager to have them investigated, instead of closing > their eyes and looking the other way, and suddenly dropping vanished > radicals down the memory hatch. > > The way we all reacted shows that we all knew full well who was doing > it. My point was the feds didn't have to murder anybody--play them off each other and they do it to themselves. Without that extra "push"? You're probably right, chances are they would have self-destructed sooner or later. Though it's true Mao made it work-- no matter how many in his own cadre he killed. I guess hippies waving their little red books around in their stupid marches just wasn't enough, huh. Still, if you read the documentation, COINTELPRO was quite a formidable program. I don't see any reason why contemporary half-baked loopy radical groups who espouse violence should expect anything less. Especially now that the national security bureaucracy and their analytic institutions are getting "information warfare" and deception operations down to a science. Ignore it at your own peril... ~Faustine.

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Summit Protests Rage for Second Day
by Jim Choate 22 Jul '01

22 Jul '01

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/htx/ap/20010721/wl/summit_protests_46.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Nature and Nature's laws lay hid in night: God said, "Let Tesla be", and all was light. B.A. Behrend The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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G8 summit riot officer on murder charge - smh.com.au - World
by Jim Choate 22 Jul '01

22 Jul '01

Kick-ass!!! http://www.smh.com.au/news/0107/22/world/world2.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Nature and Nature's laws lay hid in night: God said, "Let Tesla be", and all was light. B.A. Behrend The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: Meatspace
by George＠Orwellian.Org 22 Jul '01

22 Jul '01

jamesd(a)echeque.com wrote: # # The blank panthers and the rest were opposed to the # bourgeois democratic process. Is that some sort of excuse for the treatment I listed?

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High-tech warfare -- The Washington Times
by Jim Choate 22 Jul '01

22 Jul '01

http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20010722-949860.htm -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Nature and Nature's laws lay hid in night: God said, "Let Tesla be", and all was light. B.A. Behrend The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: home loan for your dream house 1114hl
by cypherpunks＠sybase.com 22 Jul '01

22 Jul '01

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