July 2001 - cypherpunks-legacy

Election panel calls for voting holiday
by Jim Choate 31 Jul '01

31 Jul '01

http://www.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/07/31/election.laws/index.html James Choate Product Certification - Operating Systems Staff Engineer 512-436-1062 jchoate(a)tivoli.com

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RE: Forced disclosures, document seizures, Right and Wrong.
by Trei, Peter 31 Jul '01

31 Jul '01

Thanks for your response. The 'in his direct or indirect control' bit is the part that got lost in the article. I hope it was clear that I was not looking for ways to deny a court *access* to a piece of information, but rather using the net (prior to a subpoena) as an way to make *sequestration* of a piece of info impossible, by placing copies permanently outside 'his direct or indirect control'. --------------- I hope you read Mike's 'Oh pointy one' note carefully; it points out one of the great problems most of us IANAL have with IAAL types - the confusion of laws and court action with right and justice, and actions which are simply unlawful at a given time and place with wrong and injustice. Laws and courts are or should be an attempt to map the behaviour of governments to right and justice, but lawyers so often seemed to have been conditioned into thinking they are one and the same, rather than a (very) rough approximation. [Case to point: Canter and Siegel claiming that there was nothing wrong with them sending their Green Card spam, since there was no law against it.] It's possible - indeed essential - for people to argue over right and wrong, justice and injustice without regard for what a given legal and court system says; even a court and legal system which can send Men With Guns after them. Laws do not define Right and Wrong. Courts and Legal Systems do not define Justice. They are better than nothing at all, but we should never imbue them with divine wisdom. That way lies Tyranny. Peter Trei

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None
by Claudine Bouchard 31 Jul '01

31 Jul '01

Hello, I am looking for a simple tracking device to put in my wife`s car so that I can trail her and find out where she is going each day. Thanks for any help that you can give me. kenholt(a)iname.com.

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RE: NRA Prints HALF Of The Story (Barniskis)?
by Neal Lang 31 Jul '01

31 Jul '01

By the way, Lao Tzu said, "Brevity is the root of all grace." Shamaya Longwind Hi, Angel, Sure, Angel, but look where that got the Chinese people today. To paraphrase a great American: "Brevity it the face of tyranny is no virtue. Verbosity in defence of freedom is no vice." Keep the Faith, Neal

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Mr. Wienke, help me out on this -- Re: FW: General Ashcroft make his move
by Richard Stevens 31 Jul '01

31 Jul '01

--- Jonathan Wienke <JonathanW(a)gbgcorp.com> wrote: > > I get the NRA's American Rifleman magazine. The July > issue also has > an article about Ashcroft's letter, which does not > quote the rather > lengthy footnote. However, it does contain a legible > image of BOTH > pages of the letter, including the ENTIRE text of > the footnote. This > is hardly the action of an organization bent on > distorting Ashcroft's > view on the Second Amendment. Stupid editing on the > part of the > America's First Freedom team, perhaps, but not an > organization-wide > conspiracy. > > Jonathan Wienke > Mr. Wienke, I paged through the entire July 2001 issue of American Rifleman, and maybe I'm just blind as the proverbial bat, but I don't see the article to which you refer that quotes the entire Ashcroft letter. On what page is it? The July 2001 issue of First Freedom is the one featuring the Ashcroft letter -- that I have received thus far. On the point you raise: maybe it was merely a bad editorial decision for the one magazine. Fine, and we can forgive that. But, ask this question: in what kind of workplace environment could this kind of editing decision be made? Remember that more than one editor had to approve the final copy. This is not just a typo. More than one person had to consciously decide to omit relevant material without telling the reader. I have to wonder if other sorts of "editing decisions" that massage the facts and distort the truth are being made ... and we readers don't know it. Maybe it was entirely innocent. Then NRA should promptly apologize, correct it and publish the full text in the following issue. Let's see if they do. --Richard Stevens __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

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Pointers to news sources and other mailing lists
by Tim May 31 Jul '01

31 Jul '01

I've noticed that about 90% of traffic to the Cypherpunks list, at least the slightly-filtered list at lne.com, is now one-line pointers to news on Yahoo, CNN, ABC, LA Times, and to articles on Slashdot, Politech, Extropians, Cryptography, and other such Net outlets. If I wanted to subscribed to Perrypunks, I'd do so. If I wanted to subscribe to Declanpunks, I'd do so. (In fact, I subscribe to one of Declan's lists, the Nym list. Alas, it seems to be mostly forwarded news items and pointers.) If I wanted to subscribe to Gaylorpunks, I'd do so. And I already see more Yahoo, ZDNet, CNET, and similar headlines and stories than the NSA has bits. Having dozens of other lists is all well and good, but there is no point in bouncing their stuff around. There are exceptions, as when some particularly urgent or clueful point is made. And even then it is best for the forwarder to at least take a few minutes to introduce the post and to comment on it. This shows that he's not just dumping pointers. (And when one of my articles is "helpfully forwarded" to one of these other of the dozens of such lists, I tend to get strange personal mail from people asking me what it is I'm talking about. Sometimes I bounce them info on subscribing to the Cypherpunks list, sometimes I just give them a couple of lines of explanation. And often I don't reply at all. I think most of the "pointers" are just symptoms of laziness. It looks like people just think "cross-pollinating" without analysis is the thing to do. My solution is to add more and more of you who do this to my filter files. When the average list traffic, minus advertising, spam, pointers to Yahoo, forwarded Politech items, etc. drops to less than 3 per day, then I can finally unsubscribe completely. --Tim May P.S. The worst situation is when N different lists are copied, many of them open for posting only to subscribers. Nothing worse than having an e-mail conversation spanning N different lists. -- Timothy C. May tcmay(a)got.net Corralitos, California Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns

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Your Membership Exchange, #439
by Your Membership Newsletter 31 Jul '01

31 Jul '01

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New Singapore surveillance software can detect abnormal behaviour(fwd)
by Eugene Leitl 31 Jul '01

31 Jul '01

-- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://www.lrz.de/~ui22204/">leitl</a> ______________________________________________________________ ICBMTO : N48 10'07'' E011 33'53'' http://www.lrz.de/~ui22204 57F9CFD3: ED90 0433 EB74 E4A9 537F CFF5 86E7 629B 57F9 CFD3 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 12:40:36 -0400 From: Matthew Gaylor <freematt(a)coil.com> To: extropians(a)extropy.org Subject: New Singapore surveillance software can detect abnormal behaviour Surveillance software can detect abnormal behaviour Friday July 27 7:38 AM ET New Singapore Software Can Beef Up Surveillance http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010727/tc/tech_singapore_software_dc_1.ht… SINGAPORE (Reuters) - Singapore scientists have created new software which may beef up surveillance efforts in the future by distinguishing between a person's normal activities and suspicious behavior. The software created by researchers at the Nanyang Technological University can tell the difference between people walking, talking and acting normally, and abnormal behavior such as a fight or someone collapsing. The Singapore team recorded and classified 73 features of human movement, such as speed, direction, shape and pattern. The features were then used with existing ``neural network'' software, which can learn and remember patterns, to create a new program. ``Each of the features is actually generated from a formula ...then the learning software will be able to classify certain motion as normal or abnormal,'' associate professor Maylor Leung told Reuters on Friday. ``It's something new. No one has tried (developing it) and so far we are successful,'' he said. Images fed to the software, such as from a surveillance camera, are analyzed almost instantly and with 96 percent accuracy, Leung said. The software can trigger an alarm when unusual movements are detected, making it well suited for surveillance. Creating the artificial intelligence needed to recognize complex human motion has been a challenge, Leung said. It is difficult for the human eye to accurately judge motion, such as speed, and even harder for a software program to do so, he said. Leung is looking for partners to commercialize the software. The research, which took two and a half years, is pending publication in several technical journals. __________________________________________________________________________ Distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. --- ************************************************************************** Subscribe to Freematt's Alerts: Pro-Individual Rights Issues Send a blank message to: freematt(a)coil.com with the words subscribe FA on the subject line. List is private and moderated (7-30 messages per week) Matthew Gaylor, (614) 313-5722 ICQ: 106212065 Archived at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fa/ **************************************************************************

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NRA Prints HALF Of The Story (Barniskis)?
by Neal J. Lang 31 Jul '01

31 Jul '01

E-mail From the Desk of Neal Lang Hi, Dave, Again thanks for the prompt and thoughtful reply. >In re what Ashcroft can do as head of the DoJ: same thing they did after the 14th Am- protect rkba and other rights, albeit they did it there selectively. I'd like to see the DoJ prosecute a gov. agency for denying a citizen their 2A rights. You can bet THAT case would make it up to SCOTUS post-haste. Don't think that's likely, due to "pragmatism" and "compromise". I am heartened to see Metaja denied advancement- we shall see how they continue with Emerson, and if they pursue the current DoJ position... Is the 14th Amendment even valid? I have seen some interesting evidence that says maybe not. (See the Unconstitutional 14th Amendment at: http://www.barefootsworld.net/14uncon.html - for some real interesting stuff. Apparently Herr Reno wasn't the first with the "jack-booted thugs"?) ("Jack-booted thugs?" Hmmm! Didn't Wayne LaPierre of the NRA make the phrase a National Cause Celeb? Didn't George I burn his Life Member NRA card because of Wayne's use of that expression to describe our friends at ATF? Hmmm! Not bad for a HCI clone!) Anyway, assuming it was correctly passed and ratified - now what? According to the Supremes, Dave, apparently the rkba was not included in the "privileges and immunities" of the 14th Amendment (See U.S. v. Cruikshank at: http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=92&invol=542 - this 1875 (post 14th Amendment) case recognizes the rkba, but not for blacks in Louisiana.) You being such big a Supremes fan (e.g. Marbury v. Madison) this of must be the definitive answer for you. All General Ashcroft can do is enforce the law, Dave. The Congress must pass the laws; the Courts determine the constitutional limits of the law; and the Executive, through the AG, sees that the laws are "faithfully executed". In order to prosecute, Dave, General Ashcroft needs a violation of the Federal Code. Please provide the Federal Code cite, point out the errant governmental agency, and let's get the ball rolling. I'll bet General Ashcroft will prosecute in a heart-beat if the facts are there to indict. As for Emerson, if the 5th Circuit finds for Dr. Emerson (upholds the District Court decision) I hope DoJ pushes it to the Supremes, who must take the case, IMMHO, as the Circuits will then be disjointed on Lauternberg. Worst scenario - the 5th Circuit overturns (I don't like the delay). Next worst - the 5th Circuit upholds the District Court decision, and DoJ decides to drop the case. If so, only those lucky folks in the 5th (Texas and Louisiana) can stop worrying about Lautenberg, the rest of us still will have it over our heads. Best scenario - the 5th Circuit upholds the District Court decision, and DoJ (General Ashcroft) decides to push the case to the Supremes. Of course this a "crap shoot" but I believe Justice Thomas will be writing a 2nd Amendment decision that will make Sister Brady find Jesus, IMMHO. This would be the current DoJ position. If General Ashcroft pushes it, I hope you cut him some slack because it will be almost impossible for the Supremes to duck this one. >In re Project Exile, sorry, but you did not really answer my questions. Sorry, I must have missed it. Did you include an interrogatory sign? >While you don't mind if the fedgov usurps powers not enumerated to them if the cause is 'worthwhile', ie, taking a gangbanger off the streets, I am concerned more with the gov assuming powers that are not theirs- as heinous as the criminals are, they wreak nowhere near the human carnage and misery that governments unbound do- how much further down this slope are YOU willing to tolerate our descent? Actually I do worry about Federalism, Dave, but you brought up Marbury v. Madison, not me. Frankly I believe a good case could be made that once "the People's right to keep and bear arms" was added to the Constitution, the "power" was "enumerated" then and there. I believe this is exactly what Madison was so afraid of in adding the "Bill of Rights" in the first place. It opened areas to the Federal government he never intended they would be allowed. The originally limited Federal government now obviously has something to say about "the People's speech, religion, homes, papers, guns, presses, assemblies, etc., etc., etc." - there are Articles now addressing each of these areas. Just look at the Federal Court cases now addressing these areas. You (the big Marbury v. Madison fan) can't honestly say the Feds aren't SUPREME. Be careful what you wish for, my friend, it might be granted. We may not be able to put the genie back in the bottle, my friend. Personally, like Madison, I believe the slope started with the "Bill of Rights", was greased by Marbury v. Madison and many of Justice Marshall's decisions, and really got into full descent with the Civil War and the 14th Amendment, followed closely by Sherman Anti-trust, et. al. By the time the "New Deal" arrived, we already had an income tax, Dave, and we were pretty well "bagged and tagged". Actually your idea of "Guns for Felons" will not make the top 10 of Pro-gun PR programs, IMMHO, my friend. If the Constitution says "the People's right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed", there is also a corollary - that there just might be some (prisoners in Federal prisons, for example) that this could logically be exclude. So the Federal government makes laws to enforce same. Once this begins, as it did in 1793, then obviously felons might also be logically excluded. That is, of course, unless you wish to promote a system "responsibility-free rights". A convicted felon, Dave, displays a certain lack of responsibility, IMMHO. I think that there just might be some "compelling state interest" in disarming such an irresponsible person. Of course, "due process" should be the arbiter in establishing felonious behavior. Also, I have no problem with a convicted felon having his rights restored. Again, only following appropriate "due process". A "compelling state interest" insists that if one is to have the "right to keep and bear arms", they should exercise same responsibly. I think you will agree that irresponsible firearms use could prove dangerous to my, or your, or anyone's "Natural Right to Life". Walla! The States has "compelling interest". >And, again, yeah, I know NRA says they are only to use such laws against really really REALLY bad guys- but my point is, and you have not refuted it, they CAN be applied to anyone. I believe Emerson shows that there are limits. Can the government (Federal, State, and Local) disarm citizens? Yes, Dave, it happens every day, with or without "Project Exile". However, you seem to be concerned more about felons rights than you are about my wife rights. She has a "Natural Right to Life". The last time my house was "invaded" my wife arrived while the perp was still in the house. He was armed. Fortunately he bugged out the back door from our bed-room, while my wife was putting groceries away in the kitchen. Apparently all my NRA paraphernalia laying around the house induced him to "beat feet". As much as you think this crack addict deserves the rkba, Dave, I can't see it. The vast majority of "the People", including most gun-owners, feel the same way, I believe. Your fight against "Project Exile" is really hopeless and totally counter-productive, IMMHO. Worst of all it doesn't move the ball one inch forward. >To think that a government, already operating extra-Constitutionally, is going to be ever bound by the niceties of interpreting the application of their "illegal" laws according to how the NRA wants them to do it, does not compute with me. I think your good intentions may just be paving the road to Hell here- probably not under Bush, but what about under Pres. Hillary? Sorry, no matter the motive, I just don't think the ends justify the means here. If you continue to champion "gun rights for felons", Dave, we will probably see President Hillary. Jumping up and down and shouting the government acts unconstitutionally is really not making your case. To my knowledge "Project Exile" is a designed to take "armed felons" off the street. Personally I like the idea. If you have proof that "Project Exile" is really taking "honest citizens" off the street, by all means, please, present your evidence. I will then join you in "jumping up and down and shouting". But without such evidence, you have "No Sale" here, my friend. Sorry! >I don't recall advocating political firing squads, but as long as you bring it up, let me add one qualifier- I hope you agree with me that their jury of peers should be fully informed triers of law as well as fact? Just my, obviously poor, attempt a satire. "Circular Firing Squads!" Get the picture? Everyone gets in a circle and shoots at the bad guys in the middle, but instead, causes many "friendly fire casualties". I was alluding to how we can easily destroy our friends by such tactics. Actually, Dave, equating the NRA to HCI is such a tactic, IMMHO. I, too, agree in "jury nullification" of bad laws, Dave, as did our founders. >That's it for me on this. "Uncle!" Shame, Dave, just when I saw the "light at the end of the tunnel". Keep the Faith, Neal Neal J. Lang (Signed) E-mail: movwater(a)bellsouth.net

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Re: Lasers and ICBMs
by Alan Olsen 31 Jul '01

31 Jul '01

On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Eugene Leitl wrote: > On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Tim May wrote: > > > A lot of the calculations being sketched out here, of watts/cm^2, > > dwell times, gold coatings, etc. are slightly off-base. We've known > > for 20+ years that the kill method is to use a short pulse to "push" > > (not from the photons' momentum) in the thin wall of an ICBM's fuel > > Explosive ablation sounds like giant pulses, and chemicals lasers (the > only ones known to provide lasing output in the ballpark) don't do these > very well. So either you have to fire synchonously from many platforms, or > have a veritable Death Star out there in LEO. Several of them, in fact, to > maintain an umbrella at all times. Why is this reminding me of some of the activities of local Law enforcement? All of this talk of multiple shots fired, but no mention of what happens to those that miss or continue on past the target after hitting it. I expect that if they ever do test this thing in low earth orbit or any other space bound platform, we may see a few "accidents" that were not counted on. "Oops! Accidently hit that communications satilite. Sorry!" "Oops! Accidently hit that densely populated urban area!" Oops! "Accidently" hit Tim May's house!" alan(a)ctrl-alt-del.com | Note to AOL users: for a quick shortcut to reply Alan Olsen | to my mail, just hit the ctrl, alt and del keys. "All power is derived from the barrel of a gnu." - Mao Tse Stallman

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