January 2001 - cypherpunks-legacy

order of vazquez?
by bill payne 10 Jan '01

10 Jan '01

cypherpunks(a)cyberpass.net Each time a do a google seach on what you've posted about what we're up to http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/8327/ http://members.tripod.com/bill_3_2/ http://www.nmol.com/users/billp/ I cringe. Allahu Ahkbar? I merely learned too much as a result of my jobs. As you might guess, I don't like the creeps. I can't get the forth link to work http://209.211.36.9/users/billp/forth2.htm I want to get on to other things now. Up-wind, of course. best http://www.geocities.com/computersystemsdocumentation/menlo.html

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For fun
by Jim Choate 10 Jan '01

10 Jan '01

http://geekt.org/ ____________________________________________________________________ Before a larger group can see the virtue of an idea, a smaller group must first understand it. "Stranger Suns" George Zebrowski The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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by avi 10 Jan '01

10 Jan '01

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Re: Re: IP, forwarded posts, and copyright infringement
by Declan McCullagh 10 Jan '01

10 Jan '01

As a general rule, mere possession of infringing material is not a crime. There are some exceptions, such as stealing the printouts of Tom Clancy's unpublished novel, but they are narrow and not that interesting and do not advance our understanding, even in Choatian sense, of the topic. --Declan At 04:57 PM 1/10/01 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: > > Oh, certainly there are such cases, such as if you're part of the > > infringement. But as a general rule, my point is valid, and I'd > > challenge Choate to provide a cite to the U.S. code that suggests > > otherwise. > >That suggests what is otherwise? > >Your claim was that possession of copyright infringed material wasn't a >crime. You made no (zero, none, nada, null) qualifications. In effect >simply possessing the item wasn't a crime. > >I demonstrated a counter example, that in the case of 'stripped' books >possession was in fact a crime. I also mentioned the .mp3 situation which >is another example where possession is in fact considered a crime. > >You just want to fight.

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Jim's posting practices [ Was: Re: to Jim.]
by Trei, Peter 10 Jan '01

10 Jan '01

> Jim Choate[SMTP:ravage@ssz.com] wrote: > That's actually a misrepresentation. What you are proposing is nothing > more than more 'freedom for me, not for thee'. Why? > > Simply, your argument is, > > - It's personaly inconvenient, I want it thusly. > - Because it's inconvenient then it should conform > (too much ST perhaps?) > - So, let's move the 'inconvenience' off on another party so > I'm not bothered. > - Never mind the effect on them. > > It's a bullshit line of reasoning. It's self-absorbed, rude, and > socialist (in the sense of coerced monotonic behaviour). > [...] > The only requirement ANY participant in this community or any other should > have is to be fair and considerate of others and a willingness to > participate in a dialectic. Conformity or consensus are not required (and > are really detrimental). Whether a particular post conforms to some > 'format' is really a moot point. > > This is supposed to be an anarchy, yet the leaders of the 'conformity > clique' are supposedly anarchist themselves. How odd... > > [I'm posting this to the list since Jim appears to prefer that - most people would rather receive criticism in private, but I'll accede to his wishes here.] Jim: You are confusing two distinct issues: Form and Content. On the Content side, you are essentially correct. I and many others find the beliefs you espouse on physics, law, and mathematics idiosyncratic, peculiar, and often just plain wrong. However, I think we'd all agree that you are free to post them. The list IS an anarchy in that sense. However, as to Form, you're mistaken. Cypherpunks is NOT an anarchy - it's a forum for communication. 'Communication' shares roots with 'Common' and 'Community' . More than one party is involved. For effective communication to occur, certain agreed (often tacitly or by default) protocols and standards are adhered to by the parties (note the plural) wishing to communicate. This is where you are failing ('What we have here is a failure to communicate' :-) To be specific, your methods of citation of outside sources are both burdensome and ineffective. Consider a very recent example. This morning, you posted an note titled: 'CDR: IP & copyright - Somebody with a clue? The message consisted of: 1. 4 lines of message: The original article is over on /.. Apparently Baen Books is willing to put their wallet where there mouth is to prove that the current IP argument is doomed. It will be an interesting experiment. ...which would have been greatly improved by the sentence: "Baen is putting some of its books on the net for (cheap) downloads." 2. A one line URL (a useful one, BTW). 3. 12 lines of sigfile, including a non-working hostname (www.ssz.com) 4. An attached HTML page, which does nothing but put up a screen saying 'Baen Free LIbrary', along with a broken image link. Jim: Can you explain why you did this? It adds zero, zip, nada to the usefullness of your post, contains no link, and takes up space. Don't you check your messages before you send them? This is (a) ineffective, since you don't tell us *what* Baen is doing which is interesting, and (b) burdensome, since you tagged on a totally useless attachment. You tagged it on to every single copy received by list members. A couple questions: 1. If by expending one minute of your own time, you can save *each* of your (several hundred) recipients a minute of their's, is this an unreasonable burden to ask of you? You're asking hundreds of people to consider your posting - isn't it reasonable for you to make it easy for them to do so?[1] 2. You say: > The only requirement ANY participant in this community or any other should > have is to be fair and considerate of others and a willingness to > participate in a dialectic. Conformity or consensus are not required (and > are really detrimental). Whether a particular post conforms to some > 'format' is really a moot point. > Are you being 'fair and considerate of others' when you burden every single one of your recipients, to the extent of proposing that they use search engines to puzzle out to what you refer because you were too lazy to obtain a durable URL? I'm not asking you to conform in your beliefs and positions. Others may criticize you there, but I don't think I have (crankish as I may consider them). I am asking that you show 'a willingness to participate in a dialog' by communicating in the common manner. To do this, the 'format' is far from moot. If you posted entirely in uuencoded PDF files, MIME-encoded AVI's of your interpretative dances, or in Latin, your posts would go unread. To be read, considered, and appreciated - isn't that what you want? To reach those goals, it's not good to post in such a way as to suggest either contempt for your audience's needs, or technical incompetence on your own part. Peter Trei PS: You *have* been improving. You no longer post kilobytes of included material. This is greatly appreciated. ----------------------------- Footnote: [1] For non-clued readers, Choate's reference to 'ST' probably points to Star Trek and a quote from the show: 'The needs fo the many outweigh the needs of the few'.]

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Urgent info re: your myspace InBox
by Myspace.com Support 10 Jan '01

10 Jan '01

Dear Valued myspace Member, As part of our ongoing efforts to provide users with quality products and services, myspace will be temporarily removing InBox from the myspace site. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause you. But, don't worry. Inbox is not going away forever. We will be reintroducing InBox in a short while as part of a premium myspace service that will include all of InBox's benefits, PLUS dedicated storage space and servers to ensure that our valuable customers receive the best service possible. This change in service will take place in two phases. 1) Beginning on Friday, January 12, 2001, you will no longer be able to receive, send, or forward emails and files from your myspace InBox. 2) On Friday, January 26, 2001, we will be temporarily removing InBox from the myspace site. As of this date, you will no longer be able to access or retrieve files or emails previously stored in your myspace InBox. If you have files or emails in your InBox that you would like to use in the future, please move them into a folder within your myspace account or to another location prior to Friday, January 26, 2001. Stay tuned for more news on the re-release of InBox and myspace premium services. Sincerely, The Myspace Team This email was sent to: cypherpunks(a)toad.com

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Choate Free Zone (I'm famous Ma!)
by Jim Choate 10 Jan '01

10 Jan '01

It's interesting that the current users of SSZ are free to express their views now, by moving to an alternate node. Even one of the 'CDR:' free ones (which realy makes the point moot, but it is insiteful). Personaly, I can't fathom why somebody who was bothered by the 'CDR:' or my views would participate through SSZ, so why would a strategy as proposed work? Ignorance. What I try to do is offer my users an alternate, a choice. The polar opposite of ignorance. My goal is to treet them as a true peer. Information is power (that't WHY it want's to be free). Wasn't it Stalin who said something about books being stronger than guns? The reality is that the issue isn't the CDR, attachments, or whatever. Just another demonstration of why anarchy doesn't work. "Do it my way or I won't play..." ;) ____________________________________________________________________ Before a larger group can see the virtue of an idea, a smaller group must first understand it. "Stranger Suns" George Zebrowski The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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IP, forwarded posts, and copyright infringement
by Jim Choate 10 Jan '01

10 Jan '01

It has been proposed that forwarding a URL with a page attachment is copyright infringement. Taint so. The situation is equivalent to a group of friends sitting around a table and only one paper among them. As they discuss a particular article they pass it among themselves. This is fair use and this is what forwarding a URL and content attachment to a mailing list is. The copyright infringement issue arises when you SAVE that post. The real question of copyright infringement is the archivist who saves it but doesn't have permission to hold a copy of that material. It is the act of archiving digital data that is infringement and not sharing of access. Strictly speaking the ONLY group who has a legal requirement to strip attachments is archive sites. ____________________________________________________________________ Before a larger group can see the virtue of an idea, a smaller group must first understand it. "Stranger Suns" George Zebrowski The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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RE: Functional quantum computer?
by Trei, Peter 10 Jan '01

10 Jan '01

He's an existance proof that people can be intelligent in some areas, yet astoundingly obtuse in others. Peter [Jim: It's ok that you have no problem with your ineffective methods of giving pointers to articles, but your wasting your own and other's time - there's simply no reason for people to follow your links, since they are generally useless] > ---------- > From: Reese[SMTP:reeza@flex.com] > Reply To: Reese > Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 1:55 AM > To: cypherpunks(a)cyberpass.net > Subject: Re: Functional quantum computer? > > Jimbo's a real piece of work, ain't he? > > At 04:18 PM 1/8/01 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: > > > >On Mon, 8 Jan 2001, Trei, Peter wrote: > > > >> Jim seems to have a real hard time with this concept. > > > >By the bitching you and others are making it's not I who has the > problem. > >I have none (zero, nadah, null, nil). > > > >> Last week, I privately mailed him a polite letter on > > > >And I told you to stop, you didn't. Don't give me consideration then > don't > >bitch when you don't get it. > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > > Before a larger group can see the virtue of an idea, a > > smaller group must first understand it. > > > > "Stranger Suns" > > George Zebrowski > > > > The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate > > Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com > > www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 > > -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- >

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Pro Active Internet Marketing
by donjrb＠excite.com 10 Jan '01

10 Jan '01

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