August 1993 - cypherpunks-legacy

Cypherpunk trends & visions
by szabo＠netcom.com 15 Aug '93

15 Aug '93

At today's Silly Valley cypherpunks meeting (Tim May, John Gilmore, Eric Hughes, Sandy Sandfort, Whit Diffie, Romana "Cypherella" Machado, etc. etc.) there was a lot of hand-wringing about the cypherpunks movement "stalling". Ever the pessimist, Tim May drew a chart showing cypherpunks starting out with a bang (publicizing PGP, starting up anon remailers, etc.) and seeming to stall out (even as we've gotten major publicity in Mondo, Wired, Village Voice, etc.). Much of the rancor and pessimism may reflect the fact that cypherpunks are more distributed now. For example, the stuff on this list is very disconnected from the Bay Area meetings. Do any non-Californians know or care about Digital Silk Road, electronic credit unions, Twain, etc? How hip are Bay Area cypherpunks to the various projects re: user-friendly PGP, CryptoStacker, securely private BBS's, secure phones, etc? (The main motivation for me typing in this message is to try to open up the lines of communication more, let people know what Bay Area cypherpunks are doing, and encourage replies from folks in other regions who are holding meetings & doing projects). Besides, we haven't stalled; we're just on a more mature part of the learning curve. Much of the "low hanging fruit" has been picked (as Tim May pointed out: PGP was already here, remailers were ripe, etc. when cypherpunks crystallized). We seem to have played a major role in delaying Clipper just with our big mouths (and fat fingers :-). More concretely, just today Romana and Geoff Dale unveiled a slick steganography tool for the Mac that, if distributed widely and ported to the PC, would make it practically impossible to outlaw strong crypto. We also have a variety of goals. We all share a commitment to spreading crypto beyond the elites, but for a wide variety of reasons. Some of us (Tim May, myself, etc.) are libertarians who want government out of our lives, others are liberals fighting the NSA, others find it great fun to ding people in power with cool hacks, and still others are in it for the variety of opportunities crypto-anarchy opens up for making "filthy lucre". I don't think it's productive to do too much breastbeating over this, to try to define "cypherpunk correct" politics, or insist that everybody work towards the same goals. The only stuff we really need to agree on is the practical stuff: the general "web of trust" model of cryptography, and the development of common tools and standards on that basis. Beyond that I hope there's room for a wide variety of opinions and projects. My own vision of cypherpunks evolution runs along the following lines. Some of these may be commercial opportunities, but so far cypherpunks have been most effective with freeware like anon remailers, PGP add-ons, etc.: * Digital coupons: S&H greenstamps for online services (netcom/Well/Compuserve net connection services, AMIX, NEXIS/LEXIS, Dow Jones, commercial MUDs, metered e-mail, anon services, network and computing resources, reputation ratings, etc.) Greenstamps are like frequent-flyer miles, you accumulate them with heavy patronage of some service. But greenstamps can be used to purchase a wide variety of services, not just more of the same service. Service providers and coupon vendor(s) work out arrangements for awarding and honoring greenstamps. Implemented with Chaum-style protocol to prevent forgery and assure privacy. * Digital cash: accumulating credits/debits for use of on-line services (including travel services, concert tickets, etc. purchased on-line), eventually paid for by some "real" currency: FRNs, yen, etc. Implemented with Chaum-style protocol to prevent forgery and assure privacy. * On-line markets: Internet video poker, election outcome markets, satellite track betting, etc. Investments[1] can be made & paid out by greenstamps, natch. On-line advertising. * Securely private BBS's * etc. [1] Hey, if Clinton can call government spending "investment" I can do the same for wagers on his reelection! Nick Szabo szabo(a)netcom.com

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Pagers
by greg＠ideath.goldenbear.com 15 Aug '93

15 Aug '93

For what it's worth, my pager (a Motorola Bravo (Plus?) using a frequency of 152.240 MHz) cheerfully receives pages while inside my microwave. (No, I didn't turn the microwave on. :) What that implies about the shielding capabilites of my microwave (and the safety of its continued use) is beyond my knowledge of RF and microwaves. I have some idea (please correct me if I'm wrong here) that shielding effective for energy at one frequency (like that of my pager) may be ineffective or less effective at another (like the frequency of microwaves). I'm intrigued (and alarmed) at the idea that it's possible to disable pagers via remote control. While I'll admit that there's some wee utility in being able to make sure nobody can use my pager if it's lost/stolen, it's sounding, from the posts to the list, like it'd be possible to disable many folks' pagers, were some miscreant so inclined. I know of pagers being used by police, fire department, search & rescue, private/campus security, and medical folks; if someone put some time into the "kill all the pagers" thing, it could be pretty damaging. Then again, knowing that, if I swiped somebody's pager, I'd probably just remove the battery for a few days, and hopefully miss the "stop working now" signal. I'm curious, though, how long the battery would last - my pager has a single AA battery, which lasts about a month. On average, a pager in the "find this pager" mode would have a single half-discharged AA battery to power its transmitter; and that transmitter would be sending its signal without benefit of any sort of external antenna. My very limited knowledge of RF propagation makes me think it'd be hard to get much range or duration under those circumstances. I'd be interested to see this thread move over to comp.dcom.telecom - there might be more folks who know about pagers who could comment. This is interesting, but frankly I'm still pretty skeptical. -- Greg Broiles greg(a)goldenbear.com Golden Bear Computer Consulting +1 503 342 7982 Box 12005 Eugene OR 97440 BBS: +1 503 687 7764

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ONE BBSCON
by sneal＠muskwa.ucs.ualberta.ca 15 Aug '93

15 Aug '93

Stanton McCandlish writes: >I'm off to ONE BBSCON, this month. Anyone else going? If so, and >you will be passing thru Albuquerque, I'm looking for a carpool >situation, so I don't have to drive this crappy Hyundai up there... Unfortunately, I'm coming from the north, so I can't offer you a lift. However, while we're on the subject, I'm wondering if any arrangements have been made to distribute anti-Clipper material at the con. I'd be happy to distribute flyers or what-have-you, but they'd have to reach the show by other means; I'm not willing to carry such seditious material across the US/Canada border. I hope that EFF will have a presence at the show* as they did last year, and can sow some further seeds of discontent among the non-Internet online world, many parts of which don't seem aware of the Clipper debacle. Any comments from the EFF folks hereabouts? -- Steve sneal(a)muskwa.ucs.ualberta.ca * I had a great time arguing with Shari Steele and accusing her of "dancing with the Devil" w/ reference to backing then-Senator Gore's Data Superhighway proposal. Very libertarially-incorrect position to take, Shari. :-)

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No Subject
by nobody＠alumni.cco.caltech.edu 15 Aug '93

15 Aug '93

>From: honey(a)citi.umich.edu (peter honeyman) > To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com > Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1993 15:12:31 -0400 >There's probably a way to disable the transmitter in the beeper, ... > i should think that all the second amendment enthusiasts on this list > could come up with something ... > peter Well, the immediate solution is an application of 230-grain hardball, but you probably had something more sophisticated in mind, huh?

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Encrypting Viruses.... good idea?
by IE63＠vaxb.acs.unt.edu 15 Aug '93

15 Aug '93

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Speaking of cryptostacker and beneficial viruses that encrypt files for you >in the background, I just got a copy of one in the mail! I think this may >be of interest to the group, so I am posting. ......... >I can't seem to find mention of what the fast/casual encryption algorithm >is. Instead of source code, a hex listing is provided. According to >further notes, there is a hot-key for toggling floppy encrypt, and another >hot key to uninstall from the hard drive. > >All the same, if I get a chance this weekend I'll probably try it >out! Well, good luck with it. I'd personally like to see/do a disassembly of the _entire_ virus before I would install it - security systems are great for back doors, and a virus would be GREAT for such. There are a few things anyone using this program might want to watch for (I have yet to see it, though I'd be VERY interested in disassembling it.... anyone out there with a copy that wouldn't mind sending it _ENCRYPTED_ through E-mail? Full commented disassembly returned to sender ASAP!): 1.) Some anti-virus programs with heuristics are going to have a cow, most likely - CES, F-PROT, TBSCAN are a few that are likely (especially VIRSTOP from F-Prot - if I'm wrong, tell me...) and these are some of the best out there for personal protection (sorry SCAN & CPAV). 2.) I'd recommend NOT using it if you have a special master boot record, like Windows NT or some boot-based security systems or multiple boot choices. There are 9 sectors free at the beginning of most IBM hard drives, I assume this virus uses the first sector and 1/more of the others..... if another program wants to use these as well - I'd bet the virus doesn't notice until too late. 3.) Watch where the virus puts itself on floppies. If it is larger than 512 bytes (almost have to be for its functionality) then there are only three ways I know of to put additional code in: a.) Mark sectors bad, and place code there. Problem: DON'T "FIX" BAD SECTORS ON YOUR DISK WITH NORTON! b.) Use space after root directory entry and FAT to put virus in, just like the Stoned virus. Problem: Trashes data if there are more than 80 files in the root directory. Also sometimes causes other problems with High-Density disks.... And, if a new format of disk comes out - WATCH OUT! c.) Format extra tracks on the floppy - these tracks are rarely very reliable - you might loose information if these tracks give out, depending on the setup of the virus you might loose the disk. d.) This method I haven't seen, but I guess it could happen - create an actual file and allocate it from the FAT.... this might actually be safe, as long as the virus didn't let anyone delete it or write over it. 4.) Watch where it locates itself in memory: most likely it will lower the memory in BIOS before DOS gets loaded (CHKDSK will inform you that you have <640k low memory rather than the usual 65536 bytes....) which is generally relatively safe if the computer has a standard config. It may cause problems depending on where/how/when it allocates memory, though. 5.) What happens when you bypass Int 13h (which is presumably what it hooks) and use absolute disk I/O by directly using the driver? Careful with Norton and other diskfix programs that _might_ do this at times..... 6.) Don't press 'DISINFECT' from your favorite AV program without decrypting your disks first........... My bottome line is this: the virus may be cool, but why a virus? Viruses may work for attacking things, wiping stuff out, hacking stuff, whatever (although they always tend to hit more than the intended target, funny thing about that), but when the only user of a machine WANTS to do something with their machine, why a virus? I mean, honestly...... although I must admit, it solves the problem of distribution of software in the most interesting way - I want to see what happens if a commercial company writes one of these and COPYRIGHTS it...... "This program may only be used by the original purchaser. Any unauthorized copying, lending, or any other method of distribution is STRICTLY PROHIBITED! Violators will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law! You want I should infect this here hard drive? huh? huh? (Y/n)?" "BTW - if you're reading this message and did not buy this software, then we'll be sueing you in two weeks, your modem just dialed our mainframe." I suppose I may be being a bit judgemental, as I am speaking simply from the letter quoted above, but still...... it sounds very reminiscent of Fred Cohen's compression virus..... My Public Key: - -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.3a mQCNAixUuYYAAAEEAKNllAee26qGqxJck3Bftdkrz0MUQLABGMZqVem9UW9kjjS+ rMAafauqYTE5/Kdnx+4Asj0Wgfon0YBtRMT0crMcBYNqVp4//RUh7wrxQNvKFeeO ZGuQp2hyHQqh1FDfWsHG4ldGqIV1YuOXq6oeIDkmbwgf8BRgPcZkwUqsF4b1AAUR tCpNaWNoYWVsIEEuIEVsbGlzb24gPGllNjNAdmF4Yi5hY3MudW50LmVkdT4= =0rss - -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.3a iQCVAgUBLG2BMcZkwUqsF4b1AQGe+wP+OeEKZd71ObybB4RuWa6rg761g0sNIqza L733m6EJkuxTzy0c9TwVO+S1+QXiI44O85QOA7dc84YQ0Y65Y6yEzudSSlFAN6UB CpjOQkia18ruY1CXY6mXsCAiNotWHzm2hcXASWLXXXkJi37jnfAOp3N+xWSk2+g6 Zm+0zgWa6hg= =YSOp -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: lookin' for a slogan for Tshirts
by Leevi Marttila 14 Aug '93

14 Aug '93

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Message-Id: <199308021828.AA12198(a)flubber.cc.utexas.edu> >Subject: Re: lookin' for a slogan for Tshirts >Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1993 13:28:36 -0500 (CDT) >From: Jim McCoy <mccoy(a)ccwf.cc.utexas.edu> >A nice thought, but it is not quite true now, is it? Cryptography has been >a tool for specialists, scholars, and governments for those 4000 years, but >to claim that "the masses" have had access to it is clearly untrue. In >fact, it seems that the current friction between groups such as this one >and the U.S. governement is caused mostly because private citizens are >beginning to get access to this strong cryptography and this is something >"those who watch" do not like... > >jim *The masses* have easy access to cryptography *and* the goverment has easy access to messages of *the masses*. Leevi Marttila leemartt(a)polaris.utu.fi "leevi.marttila/o=elisa-turku/"@elisa.fi -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.2 iQCVAgUBLG097TUMRj48GHK9AQH8fQP/ZmHmwEYejsXvFGRHkeSymTB8kuRfjQRy vPCaFs6NSqC4Sl65ezx4ujEztGBcNHy7h4XwErYXj+KBD4HB6pMJr/jYtLnwHUhi L6rHDgF9JY4rawIRO7xVyCYl23Wa3aYNM1beFj7S8tw0QUYR4JOK8zslIQtv9vm5 7AOQurPKYXE= =JTmd -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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few bits of info on Mycotronx
by L. Detweiler 14 Aug '93

14 Aug '93

here are a few bits of info on Mycotronx. IBM's `supplier of the year' and heavy into `satellite encryption systems'. p.s. rumor has it a reporter out there picked up on the Mycotronx `dumpster' postings here and the pointer in alt.whistleblowing to it for a mainstream news article to appear ~Sep.-Oct. ltr. ------- Forwarded Message [...] I pulled this from the Business Wire, it's not copyrighted was was distributed on BW for inclusion in Business Editor's files... it's the "approved" company profile of the folks making the Cliper Chip. =-=-=-=-=-=-= CORPORATE PROFILE FOR MYKOTRONX INC., DATED FRIDAY, AUG. 13 Published date: Friday, Aug. 13 Company name: Mykotronx Inc. Address: 357 Van Ness Way, Suite 200 Torrance, Calif., 90501 Telephone No.: 310/533-8100 Chairman of the Board: Leonard J. Baker Secretary/ Treasurer: Kikuo Ogawa President: Theodore S. Bettwy Public Relations Contact: Sheila R. Coon Business number: 310/533-8100 ext. 13 Home number: 310/548-7061 Company description: Mykotronx Inc., a small Torrance, Calif. business (42 employees) is fast becoming recognized as a leader in the Information Security (INFOSEC) field. The company has received numerous commendations for its quality program. Mykotronx was named "supplier of the year" by IBM's Federal Systems Co. of Boulder, Colo., for both 1992 and 1993. The Mykotronx staff is composed of experienced authorities in cryptology, telecommunications and the digital design of electronic equipment and microcircuits (chips). It also has excellent facilities for performing R & D engineering, prototype, production and testing. The small company atmosphere provides for personalized service and quick-react capability. Low overhead and operating expenses contribute to Mykotronx's price competitive capability. Since 1987 Mykotronx has gained a steadily increasing market share of the Space Communications Security (COMSEC) business through its COMSEC equipment design and production. Bookings through June 1993 have exceeded $7.5 million. Mykotronx is a major supplier of satellite-to-ground encryption equipment and the developer of the U.S. Government's proposed new standard ("Clipper") for encryption of electronic communications such as voice and computer transmissions via telephone, fax machine, modem, etc. Whether for high-volume or one-of-a-kind custom units, Mykotronx has the technology and capability to meet customer's INFOSEC needs. CONTACT: Mykotronx Inc., Torrance Sheila R. Coon, 310/533-8100 (phone) 310/533-0527 (fax) ------- End of Forwarded Message

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Electronic Democracy
by wcs＠anchor.ho.att.com 14 Aug '93

14 Aug '93

An anonymous personage writes > More succinctly, "Democracy is four wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." > Up the republic! Yeah, though representative government is four wolves voting on _which_ sheep to have for lunch. Any time power is available, it can be abused; it's nice to be working on systems that allow people to do transactions without providing additional information which can be abused.

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Media Wars
by geoffw＠nexsys.net 14 Aug '93

14 Aug '93

> > What we need is a national talk show host/comedian belittling the > governments plan. > Good Idea, someone like george carlin, maybe we can get frank zappa to speak out on it, It would reach a section of the population that would normally not be reached, he has challenged Big Government before on free speack issues (in the music industry), he's not a comedian but he would be effective. A real good person to get would be Lilly Tomlin!! She could definately get exposure with her Ernestine the Operator charecter. I think her political orientation would support our cause. Although, if you really want to be effective, you should win over Bob Hope; a few wise cracks from him on some tv special and the Clipper would be dead before morning :)

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No Subject
by anonymous＠extropia.wimsey.com 14 Aug '93

14 Aug '93

> *pragmatic* descriptions of Electronic Democracy ... Uu> Uu> You're walking down the street, and a gang of thugs jumps out Uu> from behind some bushes. Their leader approaches you and says: Uu> Uu> "Don't be alarmed, we're your very local community - we believe Uu> in the noble principle of Democracy, majority rule, and you Uu> have an equal vote with each of us." Et cetera, und so weiter... More succinctly, "Democracy is four wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." Up the republic!

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