December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: THE NEW YORKER on the V-Chip
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> From: IN%"abostick(a)netcom.com" "Alan Bostick" 23-JAN-1997 23:09:54.72 > > >In the Jan. 20, 1997, issue of THE NEW YORKER, the "Comment", written by > >Malcolm Gladwell, makes a powerful arguement about the unintended > >consequences of the V-Chip I noticed that when my nephews buy video games, the first ones they check out are the ones plastered with the 'protective' ratings-symbols that proclaim that the game is the 'baddest of the bad' in terms of violence, etc. Thanks to the violence-rating system, they no longer have to waste time checking out 'dweeb' programs that contain absolutely no blood and gore. Toto

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Re: Fighting the cybercensor. (fwd)
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Jim Choate wrote: > Typical modern American attitude, getting it right is too much work so let's > lower the benchmark so anyone can be 'right'. Are you referring to the CypherPunks 'censored' list? Toto

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Rejection policy of the Cypherpunks maiing list
by ichudov＠algebra.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I would like to start a thread to discuss the moderation and rejection policy. My perfectly crypto-relevant article regarding possible attacks on human relationships with the use of forged mail and anonymous remailers, has been tossed out (sorted) into cypherpunks-flames mailing list. You can receive a copy of my article by an email request. The explanation that Sandy Sandfort gave me mentioned that he rejected my message because it continued a thread where Sandy noticed instances of "flaming". Note that my message was free of any flames, including its quoted part. Sandy also states rather plainly that crypto-relevance is not the criterion by which he moderates this list. I question this policy. I would like to hear your opinions as to whether such policies satisfy the current readership. - Igor.

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Re: If you were unable to download UDCM V2.0 before...
by Krenn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > {If you were unable to download UDCM V2.0 before, we're extremely sorry.} > {UDCM's web site may have been under construction during the time you > visited.} > {UDCM's web site has finished undergoing its changes and will operate > correctly.} > {UDCM V2.0 has been extensively modified from its previous variation.} > {Digital signaturing and public key cryptosystem capabilities have been > added.} > {UDCM's DS and PKCS techniques do NOT make use of conventional PN factoring.} > {UDCM's source code is currently unavailable. PLEASE DO NOT REQUEST IT.} > {UDCM's on-line help documentation has also been extensively modified.} > {This advertisement has also been modified.} Well halellujah. > Greetings! I am Jeremy K. Yu-Ramos, president of DataET Research, Data > Engineering Technologies. I am sending you this message to let you know that > DataET Research has recently initiated the distribution of UDCM, Universal > Data Cryptography Module. UDCM implements a revolutionarily new, extremely > advanced and sophisticated, digital data encryption algorithm named IMDMP, > Integrated Mathematical Data Manipulation and Positioning. > > UDCM (the IMDMP algorithm)... OH! OF COURSE! IMDMP! COOL!! > > o Is a royalty-free Windows DLL module featuring advanced cryptography. > o Contains more than 150 procedures and functions. WOW!! 150!!! > o Is a very cost-effective size of only 60 kilobytes. > o Implements the IMDMP encryption algorithm. Of course, who doesn't?! > o Allows encryption keys as large as 2048 bits. > o Includes 18 sub-algorithms. 18?! HOLY COW!! > o Processes all forms of binary and ASCII files. What a breakthrough! Astounding!! > o Allows multiple encryption layer levels. > o Has absolutely no back-doors or magical keys. Of course not, it's IMDMP!! > o Includes time and date locking features. > o Includes file specific unique encryption features. Specific unique encryption features!! NO WAY!! COOL!!! > o Includes file authentication guard features. > o Includes digital signaturing capabilities. > o Implements the public key cryptosystem method of security. Of course, everyone knows the public key cryptosystem method is the best! Excellent! > o Includes data importance and sensitivity stamping features. > > UDCM, being a Windows DLL module, can be accessed through programs developed > with popular application and database programming languages and environments > such as: C, C++, Visual Basic, PowerBuilder, Delphi, OOP Pascal, Turbo > Pascal, dBase, Paradox, Access, Sybase, Oracle, etc. > > DataET Research has released a shareware version of UDCM named UDCM V2.0. Hey, v2.0, neat name, where'd you come up with it?! > > To download UDCM V2.0 for free, please go to: > http://members.aol.com/dataetrsch/udcm.html. AOL!! Oh YES! Cool! > > I hope you will consider applying UDCM in the software you develop. Thank-you > very much for your time. Oh most certainly! I'm gonna run out and implement EVERYTHING in UDCM!! Thanks man!! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMuhyVUnqfwPpt/QVAQFM4wQAymizJEI/F5SFcWILNfGNoIsxxYza6Bfo yadEF9BnlcXujq0ZFZiRv7SddXjTS5TgVZLutZdEIx/NYPESkH7MXh18CyI/EXo6 NSyAiE0pFFRIrAgV4FWVVS9jsTWKucfI7NbWKSLEWTK8e6fdywAlXzlvbPT+1v6C b4vWK4akrBs= =74mf -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Commerce Sec. Hearings and Encryption
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Bill Campbell wrote: > > toto(a)sk.sympatico.ca wrote: > > Bill Campbell wrote: > This "freely available overseas" concept is a bit overstated. > France and other countries are beginning to come down hard > on encryption. True. Perhaps I should have said "freely available, but it might cost you more than you expect." > Cynic or realist, you make the call. <G> The average Joe > doesn't even know *why* he needs encryption...at least > not yet. The average joe is quickly becoming aware of the issue of data security (and therefore being exposed to the 'concept' of encryption as something that will impact his life). Of course, this is coming about as a result of commercial pressures to make him feel safe about handing over his Visa number, etc. To me, this indicates that this is the opportune time to inject a deeper level of understanding into the issue of crypto, at a time when the average joe has his attention directed toward the crypto arena. Toto

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Re: No Dimitri??
by Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

"Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM" <dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com> writes: > "William H. Geiger III" <whgiii(a)amaranth.com> writes: > > > I have noticed that there has not been any post from Dimitri in a couple of > > days. > > > > I am assuming that this means that the list moderation has now started? > > Yes - anything I say is junked irrespective of content. I see that Moderator Sandfort has allowed this article through (to prove me wrong) but has tossed all my other articles into cypherpunks-flames. Most of them were crypto-relevant, on-topic, and contained no flames. I bet he's going to toss this one too. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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Re: Rejection policy of the Cypherpunks maiing list
by Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

ichudov(a)algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home) writes: > I would like to start a thread to discuss the moderation and rejection > policy. I predict that Sandy won't allow any posts on the censored list that question his moderation poilicy - only the unanymous praises. > My perfectly crypto-relevant article regarding possible attacks > on human relationships with the use of forged mail and anonymous > remailers, has been tossed out (sorted) into cypherpunks-flames > mailing list. A dishonorable act. > You can receive a copy of my article by an email request. Perhaps you want to start putting up rejected articles on a Web page? > The explanation that Sandy Sandfort gave me mentioned that he rejected > my message because it continued a thread where Sandy noticed instances > of "flaming". Note that my message was free of any flames, including > its quoted part. That's correct. > Sandy also states rather plainly that crypto-relevance is not the > criterion by which he moderates this list. I question this policy. Sandy's personal likes and dislikes of certain posters are the criterion. > I would like to hear your opinions as to whether such policies satisfy > the current readership. You won't be allowed to on this censored mailing list. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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Re: seeds of our own destruction
by Attila T. Hun 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <32E72BCB.3CBA(a)deltanet.com>, on 01/23/97 at 01:13 AM, Kevin Stephenson <cts(a)deltanet.com> said: +You wrote some very interesting articles. It is the UN. if you want a real scare, read the UN "world constitution" on human rights and privacy --their idea of a Bill of Rights. It just happens that it is virtually word for word equivalent to the mainland Chinese "rights" -in other words: rights as long as they are consistent with the aims of the state (UN) and the security needs of the state at the given moment. ...and the UN is to be granted overall sovereignity by virtue of the right to unilateraly tax its 'member' states, and not necessarily in an equitable fashion. to put it in context, it is clearly the havenots reducing everyone to the status of havenot; there will be no others. this, of course, will eventually give way to tribal governments and the cycle will start over after the population is reduced by its own pollution and starvation to a new balance with nature. disease, more than starvation, will be the biggest killer. men will be too hungry, and too sick, to fight until it stabilizes. there will be exceptions, of course, but they will lack sufficient power to extend their sphere of influence before they are overrun by the mass, or destroyed by chemical and germ warfare in the last gasp. the meaning of the 144,000 becomes more clear... +Read Revelations (if you haven't). have more than several textbooks on it, and have taught classes on Revelation. however, I strongly believe the interpretations are still 'every man for himself' --presuming, of course, the propounder has at least the prerequisite grounding and understanding in the fundamental concepts, starting with John the Revelator, who never died, and why portions of the book are sealed. the best general reference on symbology, at least of what I have seen so far: Opening the Seven Seals (The Visions of John the Revelator) Richard D. Draper Desert Books, Salt Lake City ISBN 087579-547-1, SKU 2142298 +Maybe put some scriptures on cypherpunks. casting pearls before swine? +Happy Armageddon. Frances Ford Coppola wasted the good title: 'Apocolypse Now' -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: latin1 Comment: Encrypted with 2.6.3i. Requires 2.6 or later. iQCVAwUBMuc64b04kQrCC2kFAQFXBwP/RhEeldizuSelbrHtfCSDsrwRaT0hn1qd e/j6Q0IPHMkzrFS+bnTGia5hLogTgU61tdvq38AGlRt2LpQZVekStZqCog4Jfmx0 olK1xzpNEr71UsDxxYe5ooIhHwWVWfZsxtj6k8/eSYtLbontN+BCHbk6V+Py3BOi HOpugpbs8V4= =2XXx -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Rejection policy of the Cypherpunks maiing list
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > > My perfectly crypto-relevant article regarding possible attacks > on human relationships with the use of forged mail and anonymous > remailers, has been tossed out (sorted) into cypherpunks-flames > mailing list. I have noticed that the 'sorting' of messages seems to be based as much on personality as upon content. > The explanation that Sandy Sandfort gave me mentioned that he rejected > my message because it continued a thread where Sandy noticed instances > of "flaming". Note that my message was free of any flames, including > its quoted part. The standard of what constitutes a 'flame' seems to rest very much upon whom a comment is directed at, or merely 'vaguely toward'. There have been more than a few postings stronly lambasting various generic grouping of individuals which have passed without censoring. Your post, however, included Dr. Dimitri's vague reference to a homosexual 'elite'. While it was directed toward no one in particular, I suppose one could 'infer', from his past postings, that it referred to certain individuals, or a group of individuals. So it would seem that, in quoting the posts of others, one must take into consideration what various readers may infer from their previous posts. > Sandy also states rather plainly that crypto-relevance is not the > criterion by which he moderates this list. This was more than obvious to anyone who cared to cast an objective eye on the process, but their input was pooh-paah'd by the 'washed masses'. > I would like to hear your opinions as to whether such policies satisfy > the current readership. Like all of the 'opinions' that were expressed prior to the censorship of the list? I haven't seen any indication that these opinions were given the slightest consideration. This is not the readership's list. It is a private individual's list. My view of Sandy's moderation is that it is rather willy-nilly, and not done particularly objectively. There have been personal insults directed toward various individuals, including myself, which seem not to have been considered 'flames', while there are more than a few posts which, even on the closest of inspection, I can see no reason for dumping the the 'flame-crapper', other than the fact that they are somewhat associated to the 'unclean' list members. The moderation, at best, seems to encourage 'snide' commentary meant to be ill-disguised cheap-shots. I would much rather have list members taking strong, clean shots at their 'targets', than to be subjected to two-faced people talking out of the side of their mouths. In short, I don't see the moderation as being 'fair', and I don't think it was ever meant to be. I don't have a problem with this, since it's a private list, and, as far as I am concerned, the list-owner can censor it, or have it censored, any way he or she sees fit. I would like to point out, however, that anyone who has had their posts 'sorted' into the 'flames list' is now a 'known flamer', as evidenced by the fact that their post has been designated a 'flame' on a list run by a champion of free speech on the electronic frontier. It is obvious that some of the more intuitively intelligent list members are aware of this, as is indicated by the nervous fear with which they 'explain why' their post is crypto-relevant. Toto

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Re: If you were unable to download UDCM V2.0 before...
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Krenn wrote: > Oh most certainly! I'm gonna run out and implement EVERYTHING in UDCM!! > Thanks man!! Yours is the post these guys have been waiting for. All of those other CypherPunks just 'flamed' them by asking technical questions about their products. Who knows, they may make you their marketing manager. Toto

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Re: THE NEW YORKER on the V-Chip
by Greg Broiles 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 04:57 PM 1/23/97 -0800, Alan Bostick wrote: >In the Jan. 20, 1997, issue of THE NEW YORKER, the "Comment", written by >Malcolm Gladwell, makes a powerful arguement about the unintended >consequences of the V-Chip, the programmable device to be included in >next-generation television sets sold in the US that supposedly will >allow parents to control their children's access to sex and violence on >TV. While I think it's always useful to consider unintended (or otherwise unexpected) consequences, Gladwell's argument sent a shiver down my spine with its shameless paternalism. This bit (from roughly the middle of his piece) is what I found creepiest: "According to one recent study, somewhere between twenty and twenty-seven per cent of the parents of four-to six-year-olds never restrict their children's viewing hours, never decide what programs they can watch, never change the channel when something objectionable comes on, and never forbid the watching of certain programs. It has apparently never occurred to these parents that television can be a bad influence, and it strains credulity to think that the advent of the V-chip is going to wake them up. Yet their families - mainly lower-income, ill-educated - are the very ones most in need of protection from television violence. Here is a rearranging effect with a vengeance: not only does the V-chip make television worse, it makes television worse precisely for those already most vulnerable to its excesses." I understood Gladwell's point to be, in essence, that the V-chip will allow TV producers to generate higher levels of morally impure content which he fears will pollute the minds of poor children because their parents are too stupid to protect them from the harmful content and too poor to buy new televisions which will include V-chips. While I think 95% of broadcast TV is crap which isn't worth the time expended watching it, even reading arguments like "poor people should be protected from harmful ideas they're too stupid (or too poorly educated) to avoid and too poor to purchase protection from" makes me feel dirty. I don't think Gladwell is, in any meaningful way, an opponent of government control of speech/expression - he's just an opponent of inefficient or optional forms of government control of speech/expression. He's a reasonable writer, but he's chosen to use his powers for evil instead of for good. (Some of his work is available on the web; apparently he once worked as a reporter for the Washington Post and is now on the staff of the New Yorker.) -- Greg Broiles | US crypto export control policy in a nutshell: gbroiles(a)netbox.com | http://www.io.com/~gbroiles | Export jobs, not crypto. |

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ATTENTION HOMEOWNER
by CV Communications 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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RE: If you were unable to download UDCM V2.0 before....
by Mullen 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>From: DataETRsch@aol.com[SMTP:DataETRsch@aol.com] >o Includes time and date locking features. How do you implement this feature? Where is the time/date information stored? Is this in that header you were talking about before? Is there some method which is designed to thwart simply changing the CMOS time? Thanks! ~ Patrick >---------- >From: DataETRsch@aol.com[SMTP:DataETRsch@aol.com] >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 1997 9:35 PM >To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com >Subject: If you were unable to download UDCM V2.0 before.... > >{If you were unable to download UDCM V2.0 before, we're extremely sorry.} >{UDCM's web site may have been under construction during the time you >visited.} >{UDCM's web site has finished undergoing its changes and will operate >correctly.} >{UDCM V2.0 has been extensively modified from its previous variation.} >{Digital signaturing and public key cryptosystem capabilities have been >added.} >{UDCM's DS and PKCS techniques do NOT make use of conventional PN factoring.} >{UDCM's source code is currently unavailable. PLEASE DO NOT REQUEST IT.} >{UDCM's on-line help documentation has also been extensively modified.} >{This advertisement has also been modified.} > >Hello, > >Greetings! I am Jeremy K. Yu-Ramos, president of DataET Research, Data >Engineering Technologies. I am sending you this message to let you know that >DataET Research has recently initiated the distribution of UDCM, Universal >Data Cryptography Module. UDCM implements a revolutionarily new, extremely >advanced and sophisticated, digital data encryption algorithm named IMDMP, >Integrated Mathematical Data Manipulation and Positioning. > >UDCM (the IMDMP algorithm)... > >o Is a royalty-free Windows DLL module featuring advanced cryptography. >o Contains more than 150 procedures and functions. >o Is a very cost-effective size of only 60 kilobytes. >o Implements the IMDMP encryption algorithm. >o Allows encryption keys as large as 2048 bits. >o Includes 18 sub-algorithms. >o Processes all forms of binary and ASCII files. >o Allows multiple encryption layer levels. >o Has absolutely no back-doors or magical keys. >o Includes time and date locking features. >o Includes file specific unique encryption features. >o Includes file authentication guard features. >o Includes digital signaturing capabilities. >o Implements the public key cryptosystem method of security. >o Includes data importance and sensitivity stamping features. > >UDCM, being a Windows DLL module, can be accessed through programs developed >with popular application and database programming languages and environments >such as: C, C++, Visual Basic, PowerBuilder, Delphi, OOP Pascal, Turbo >Pascal, dBase, Paradox, Access, Sybase, Oracle, etc. > >DataET Research has released a shareware version of UDCM named UDCM V2.0. > >To download UDCM V2.0 for free, please go to: >http://members.aol.com/dataetrsch/udcm.html. > >I hope you will consider applying UDCM in the software you develop. Thank-you >very much for your time. > >Sincerely, > >Jeremy K.Yu-Ramos >President >DataET Research >Data Engineering Technologies > >

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Homosexuals
by Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

fuck you <satan_is_a_hacker(a)juno.com> writes in the censored list: > If anyone has any text files on the following topics please send them. ... > Anything underground Anything? My good friend TRRCJ3 reports from San Francisco that the city is much nicer now that so many homosexuals are 6 feet under. Thank God for AIDS. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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Re: fingerd
by Peter M Allan 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi, These messages have been sent about fingerd. My preference for fiddling with remote fingers is to leave fingerd as supplied by the vendor (run by "nobody") and replace the finger program itself. It can be made to recognise when it is being run by "nobody" and behave differently from when run by another user. Source at the end of this file. (Bashed out fairly quickly starting from a utmp-eraser I made for a luser who wouldn't tolerate wall messages from shutdown.) I have (among other things) an extension to TCP-wrappers (a new hosts_access.c file), and a prog to find disk space wasted by duplicated files. (mail me with Subject: "send goodies" for these.) -- Peter Allan peter.allan(a)aeat.co.uk Date: 23 Jan 1997 17:22:10 -0800 From: Steven L Baur <steve(a)miranova.com> > cfingerd is not a safe program. It must run as root, and has some big > problems. > On Tue, 17 Sep 1996, Administrador da Rede wrote: > > I use the newest version of cfinger, setted to not allow general finger, just > > specific ones. Does anyone knows how this person did that ? I hope I can > > find out, otherwise, bye bye finger service. > Badly. > I have sent the author a letter, but never got any reply back (it's 3 > months later now!), so I just take the opportunity to warn the public > against its use. /* * * compile and test myfinger * * cc -C -o myfinger myfinger.c * * * (assuming the standard finger is /usr/ucb/finger) * cp /usr/ucb/finger /usr/ucb/finger.real * cp myfinger /usr/ucb/finger * * * (if using TCP wrapper reverse-fingers, make them NOT nobody, * but another id such as nobody2.) * * I disclaim any disasters........ * */ /* * * my finger program - local only, to be less informative than /usr/ucb/finger * */ #undef _utmp_h #define TRUE 1 #define FALSE 0 #define FAKE 1 #define WIPE 2 #define UTMP "/etc/utmp" #include <stdio.h> #include <pwd.h> #include "utmp.h" #include <lastlog.h> main(argc, argv, env) int argc; char **argv; char **env; { int i, listed; struct passwd *pwent; if (argc < 1) exit(0); /* beat sneaks */ /* If run by "nobody" (uid=65534) assume this is a remote finger */ /* otherwise run the standard finger command */ if (65534!=getuid()) { execv("/usr/ucb/finger.real", argv); /** if we get here exec failed, so we default to my finger **/ } printf("Login Name Where\n"); listed = 1; while ((pwent = getpwent()) != NULL) { if (argc > 1) { /* * if there are args, and name is NOT one of them, we skip * it */ listed = 0; for (i = 1; (!listed) && (i < argc); i++) { if (!strcmp(argv[i], pwent->pw_name)) listed = 1; } } if (listed) info(pwent); } } info(pwent) struct passwd *pwent; { long lpos; FILE *fp; int i; struct utmp *sp; struct utmp utmpentry; char *login,*gecos; login=pwent->pw_name; gecos=pwent->pw_gecos; sp = &utmpentry; if ((fp = fopen(UTMP, "r")) == NULL) { fprintf(stderr, "failed to open utmp for reading\n"); exit(1); } i = fseek(fp, 0, 0); if (i) { puts("failed to fseek start of file"); exit(2); } do { /* get current pos in file using ftell */ lpos = ftell(fp); /* fread the struct */ fread(sp, sizeof utmpentry, 1, fp); if (!feof(fp)) { if (!strcmp(login, sp->ut_name)) { if (!nonuser(utmpentry)) { utmpentry.ut_host[15]='\0'; printf("%s\t%s\t%s\t%s\n",login,gecos,sp->ut_line,sp->ut_host); } } } /* on error we close & exit */ if (ferror(fp)) { fprintf(stderr, " file error! so failed to find our session in utmp\n"); fclose(fp); exit(3); } } while (!feof(fp)); fclose(fp); } /* end */

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Re: THE NEW YORKER on the V-Chip
by Duncan Frissell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 08:23 AM 1/24/97 -0500, Alan Bostick wrote: >Gladwell makes an analogy between V-Chipped TV content and >air-conditioned cars in the New York City subway system in summertime: >" . . . we need air-conditioners on subway cars because air-conditioners >on subway cars have made stations so hot that subway cars need to be >air-conditioned." Great analogy except that it's wrong. Subway tunnels were hot before the cars ever had air conditioning. The traditional method of controlling the amount of power delivered to an electric traction motor was to run the juice through a resistor array. As the motorman moved the controller up and down, the current would pass through fewer and more banks on the grid of resistors and the amount delivered to the motors would change. Well you might guess that at 600 V DC and I don't know how many Watts, those resistor grids had to dump a lot of heat. They were/are located on the tops or bottoms of cars and are quite apparent when the cars pass you on a winter morning. DCF -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 4.5 iQCVAgUBMujKnYVO4r4sgSPhAQHgmAQAh82IvjwPXFdDchT1JvOuwf0pHGyO1xzY FsuPo2ig696dnWfXEyRhAcCvK6MKpXyaXPwtsPvJD6o8VUY2kU9UB5oddPBG7Q65 KAEwF/CBAtk3qyGmbfsd1ax65vjSkqm/+D675g/kHjAgOfaNFoRdlEXi4TLFjZZO ocj3IrSqZSE= =U0/n -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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No Subject
by satan_is_a_hacker＠juno.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Are their any H/ P/ V/ A/ C ers on this list??

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Re: THE NEW YORKER on the V-Chip
by Duncan Frissell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 08:23 AM 1/24/97 -0500, Alan Bostick wrote: >Gladwell makes an analogy between V-Chipped TV content and >air-conditioned cars in the New York City subway system in summertime: >" . . . we need air-conditioners on subway cars because air-conditioners >on subway cars have made stations so hot that subway cars need to be >air-conditioned." Great analogy except that it's wrong. Subway tunnels were hot before the cars ever had air conditioning. The traditional method of controlling the amount of power delivered to an electric traction motor was to run the juice through a resistor array. As the motorman moved the controller up and down, the current would pass through fewer and more banks on the grid of resistors and the amount delivered to the motors would change. Well you might guess that at 600 V DC and I don't know how many Watts, those resistor grids had to dump a lot of heat. They were/are located on the tops or bottoms of cars and are quite apparent when the cars pass you on a winter morning. DCF -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 4.5 iQCVAgUBMujKnYVO4r4sgSPhAQHgmAQAh82IvjwPXFdDchT1JvOuwf0pHGyO1xzY FsuPo2ig696dnWfXEyRhAcCvK6MKpXyaXPwtsPvJD6o8VUY2kU9UB5oddPBG7Q65 KAEwF/CBAtk3qyGmbfsd1ax65vjSkqm/+D675g/kHjAgOfaNFoRdlEXi4TLFjZZO ocj3IrSqZSE= =U0/n -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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No Subject
by fuck you 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Are their any H/ P/ V/ A/ C ers on this list??

2 1

Re: seeds of our own destruction
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Attila T. Hun wrote: > at 01:13 AM, Kevin Stephenson <cts(a)deltanet.com> said: > +You wrote some very interesting articles. It is the UN. > if you want a real scare, read the UN "world constitution" on > human rights and privacy --their idea of a Bill of Rights. It just > happens that it is virtually word for word equivalent to the > mainland Chinese "rights" -in other words: rights as long as they > are consistent with the aims of the state (UN) and the security > needs of the state at the given moment. [snip] > +Read Revelations (if you haven't). > the best general reference on symbology, at least of what I > have seen so far: Opening the Seven Seals (The Visions of John the Revelator) > Richard D. Draper, Desert Books, Salt Lake City, ISBN 087579-547-1, SKU 2142298 Wendy Wallace (I think) has written something about the 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse, and they've been running excerpts in Paranoia magazine. I really like Paranoia mag, check it out. If you like heavy-duty scary symbology writing (can't vouch for the exact content), check out Texe Marrs who has a recent book on the subject (can't remember the title, but pictures of the symbols on the cover, in paperback).

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Re: fingerd
by ichudov＠algebra.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Peter M Allan wrote: > > These messages have been sent about fingerd. > My preference for fiddling with remote fingers is to > leave fingerd as supplied by the vendor (run by "nobody") and > replace the finger program itself. It can be made to recognise > when it is being run by "nobody" and behave differently > from when run by another user. > > Source at the end of this file. (Bashed out fairly quickly > starting from a utmp-eraser I made for a luser who wouldn't > tolerate wall messages from shutdown.) > > I have (among other things) an extension to TCP-wrappers > (a new hosts_access.c file), and a prog to find disk space wasted by duplicated files. > (mail me with Subject: "send goodies" for these.) > /* > * > * compile and test myfinger > * > * cc -C -o myfinger myfinger.c > * > * > * (assuming the standard finger is /usr/ucb/finger) > * cp /usr/ucb/finger /usr/ucb/finger.real > * cp myfinger /usr/ucb/finger > * > * > * (if using TCP wrapper reverse-fingers, make them NOT nobody, > * but another id such as nobody2.) > * > * I disclaim any disasters........ > * > */ > > /* > * > * my finger program - local only, to be less informative than /usr/ucb/finger > * > */ > > > #undef _utmp_h > #define TRUE 1 > #define FALSE 0 > #define FAKE 1 > #define WIPE 2 > #define UTMP "/etc/utmp" > > > #include <stdio.h> > #include <pwd.h> > #include "utmp.h" > #include <lastlog.h> > > main(argc, argv, env) > int argc; > char **argv; > char **env; > { > int i, listed; > struct passwd *pwent; > > if (argc < 1) > exit(0); /* beat sneaks */ argc is never less than one. > /* If run by "nobody" (uid=65534) assume this is a remote finger */ > /* otherwise run the standard finger command */ > if (65534!=getuid()) { > execv("/usr/ucb/finger.real", argv); > /** if we get here exec failed, so we default to my finger **/ igor

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Re: seeds of our own destruction
by Lou Zer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Very soon humans will not have any purpose in life but to replicate themselves. At least before the computer came along we kept ourselves busy. But now we are getting computers to do the jobs that make up life. We already precluded the need for math a long time ago.But know their are spell checkers and even applications that check your spelling as you write. I just saw on "The Site" how computers will be in shoes, in milk cartons and in door mats. The human bodies salinity will act as a conductor for the binary information. You pick up the milk carton which then tells your your shoes that its not fresh. Then when your foot touches the door mat in Publix it tells your watch to beep and say "You DONT Got Milk" Then their will be that the floor in your apartment tells the coffee pot to make coffee because it found a low caffeine level in your body. You can shake hands with someone and automatically transmit their business card to the hard drive in your shoe. The pay phone will know exactly who to bill the second the receiver is touched. But what if I bump into you, now I have your business card. What if I steal your shoe! Oh but dont worry, all this information will be ENCRYPTED.As we all know once something is encrypted its perfectly safe.Yeah right, And Bill Gates still uses a 310 baud modem. If someone really needs to know what's on your shoeputer then they will set their 1586 700Mhz (or whatever they have by then) do do just that. So what if it takes 2 weeks or 2 months. They will have every single aspect of your life from your medical records to credit card numbers to phone number(will they even USE phone numbers by then) to your shoe size. But wait theirs more. If you haven't been crawling through a cave for the past few months you will see that Intel boasts that their chips will be able to perform 2 gigaflops or 2 billion calculations per second.Can you imagine that. If you did one mathematical calculation per second it would take you 31 thousand years. It did it in a second, don't you feel dumb. Now imagine had one of these bad boys and your shoes. How long would it take? Two hours, three or maybe, if its really dragging, a day.Thats just the good old steal it and use it technique. I don't even want to go into how people could intercept information, copy it, or make their own.Well , I think I caused you enough cranial burden for today, so remember technology is like drugs, there are always more and they keep getting more effective but you do not need them. They need you. Jonathan Leto

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No Subject
by Lou Zer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Does any one know of any other good mailing Lists either with crypto or anything underground

2 1

2 Questions
by privsoft＠ix.netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hey guys, 2 quick questions: Are there any known hacks or weaknesses in S/Key? Has Anyone heard of a new product called SecureWin from Cipher Logics Corp. It looks like vaporware but is a little more sophisticated than the usual product spams (like IPG, POTP, Encrypt-it, WinKrypt etc.) [I checked there web page some interesting fuctions, , No software available yet and Phone numbers are either busy or not in service, go figure] thanks Steveo

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PSS_sst
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

New Scientist of 25 January reviews the Bernstein's case against crypto export, US global seduction of foreign goverrments to suppress domestic calls for privacy, and therewith deftly alerts British leaders and readers to undermining the "secretive bureaucratic" Uncle Sam scam, says the deft-underminer cpunkers quoted. ----- PSS_sst

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RE: Rejection policy of the Cypherpunks maiing list
by jbugden＠smtplink.alis.ca 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

ichudov(a)algebra.com wrote> >Sandy also states rather plainly that crypto-relevance is not the >criterion by which he moderates this list. I question this policy. > >I would like to hear your opinions as to whether such policies >satisfy the current readership. > > - Igor. I am not enthused about the perceived need for moderation. But neither was I enthused with the state of the list. However, I will reserve judgement as to the success or failure of the experiment for a while yet. The question for me is how much the moderation improves the S/N ratio v.s. how much it impedes dialogue. I expect Sandy to make mistakes, even by his own criterion. But anyone who will publicly admit to shaving his eyebrows is probably not swayed by popular opinion. James

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[DES] DES Key Recovery Project, Progress Report #7
by Peter Trei 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

DES Key Recovery Project, Progress Report #7 Friday, Jan 23 1997 Peter Trei Next Tuesday morning, 9AM, RSA is scheduled to release the 'real' $10,000 DES challenge data. My software is in a state where it can be used for the challenge, though there is room for improvement. It currently tests about 185,000 keys/sec on my 90MHz machine. This translates to about 205,000 keys/sec on a 100 MHz machine. I still have to replace my DES round, which takes 25 clock cycles, with Svend Mikkelsen's, which takes only 18. Since the DES rounds are well over 80% of the work, this should boost the speed to over 250,000 keys/sec at 100 MHz. If I'm lucky, I'll perform this conversion over the weekend. I've sent out early betas to a few people for porting, but have had no feedback yet. I've approached several restricted FTP sites as possible distribution sites, and have had some positive responses, but nothing definitive yet. I'm being pretty strict in my interpretation of EAR for this purpose. In advance of the challenge, I'm willing to email copies as a ~100k uuencoded zip file to people, but to do so, you must comply with the following: 1. Send the request to ptrei(a)acm.org, NOT trei(a)process.com. I won't be able to read the latter for the next 10 days. 2. Include your 'true name' and residence address, as well as the email address to which it should be sent, . 3. A statement of your nationality. I'll mail it only to US Citizens, Canadian citizens, and US Green Card holders, residing in the US or Canada. 4. A statement to the effect that you understand that this is restricted code, and that cannot be exported or given to non-US/Canadian citizens I'm going to hold this information in strict confidence, and will surrender it only to a valid court order. It's similar to what you have to go through to download the domestic version of Netscape Navigator or PGP from MIT. You are free to distribute the software further. If you've complied with the requirements above, I believe that at that point I've done more than due diligence under ITAR/EAR. My software gets it's challenge data either from a text file cut-and-pasted from the RSA page, or from internally stored data. Tuesday night, I'll recompile the program with the real challenge data, and redistribute. My version runs on WinNT or Win95, on 486's and above. It's set up as a console app, which can run in background. I don't yet have a version for Win 3.1 or below 486, but may do in the future. The software is set up in such a way that it can be used either on a standalone system, or in a LAN environment with shared disks. The latter has a slightly more complex setup, but will allow many machines to share one executable and results file. I envisage people installing one copy on a shared disk in their workplace, and then adding the appropriate commands to the autoexec.bat file of every machine they can, so the program will start running whenever the machine is booted. (I HOPE you get permission!). The distribution includes both source and the Win32 executable. The source includes both fast Intel assembler, and much slower generic 'C'. There's nothing that's really Microsoft specific in the code - it should be easy to port to other systems with 32 bit or better processors. I'm attempting to do a 'PGP style' distribution with a signed, nested zip file. The signing key I'm using is available at http://www.ziplink.net/users/trei/crypto.html (I hope I've done this right). I'm only going to send out signed archives. If you get one where the signature fails, or one lacking a signature, I repudiate it - and you should be suspicous of it. I'll be trying to set up that URL as a page describing the project, with info on other efforts, and FAQs. Once the challenge starts, I hope you'll all evangelize it to your friends and acquaintences. I'd like to see 100,000 machines trying for the $10,000. All next week I'm in the San Francisco area (I'm flying out in a couple hours). I'll be attending the Verisign Partner's Day on Monday, and I'll be at the RSA Data Security Conference Tuesday through Friday. I'll be trying to read cypherpunks and coderpunks at least once a day, along with checking mail to ptrei(a)acm.org. I can't read cryptography(a)c2.net from an archive, so I will not see it unless it cc's ptrei(a)acm.org (Perry, could you temporarily subscribe ptrei(a)acm.org?) Happy hunting! Peter Trei ptrei(a)acm.org

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Sandy dumps Igor but allows KOTM
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Sandy Sandfort, our Leader, Moderator, Guidance Counselor, Censor, and Speaker-to-Gilmour said: "By the way, contrary to what Dimitri has alleged, I have posted every message from him in which he was able to restrain himself with regard to gratuitous insults and/or spam. In other words, the set of Dimitri posts that have appeared on the moderated list is not the null set." However, KOTM wrote: "Anything? My good friend TRRCJ3 reports from San Francisco that the city is much nicer now that so many homosexuals are 6 feet under. "Thank God for AIDS." (end quote from KOTM) Nice to know Sandy is doing such an efficient job of moderating out the "flames," such as by kicking Igor's crypto-relevant article on denial of service attacks to the flame bucket while bending over backwards to appear to be "fair" to KOTM. Face it, it's a bad idea. The Cypherpunks community is not the private sandbox of Gilmour and Sandfort, and we don't need Sandy's "guidance" to keep us from being straying sheep. The list may currently be hosted on Gilmour's computer, but having Sandy decide what's right for us to read is inconsistent with Cypherpunks ideals. GenX --

3 2

Re: THE NEW YORKER on the V-Chip
by Sean Roach 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 04:57 PM 1/23/97 -0800, Alan Bostick wrote: >In the Jan. 20, 1997, issue of THE NEW YORKER, the "Comment", written by >Malcolm Gladwell, makes a powerful arguement about the unintended >consequences of the V-Chip, the programmable device to be included in >next-generation television sets sold in the US that supposedly will >allow parents to control their children's access to sex and violence on >TV. > >Gladwell makes an analogy between V-Chipped TV content and >air-conditioned cars in the New York City subway system in summertime: >" . . . we need air-conditioners on subway cars because air-conditioners >on subway cars have made stations so hot that subway cars need to be >air-conditioned." Similarly, he argues, "the V-chip is likely to >increase the amount of sex and violence on television, not decrease it" >because when viewers can block offensive programming, there is far less >pressure on broadcasters and cable operators to avoid offending. > >This is just the sort of thing that John Young is given to scanning and >putting up on his Web site or sending out to people who send him email >with FUN_nie subject lines. If I were him, I'd put it up. > >And, for the benefit of those people who don't think the V-Chip isn't in >itself on-topic for cypherpunks, I might point out that Gladwell's >argument applies equally well to mail filtering with procmail recipes -- >or Sandy's and John's list moderation experiment. If the noise level on >the unmoderated list jumps to even higher than we were seeing before >the moderation began, that would provide observational support to >Gladwell's argument. You forgot about one thing, TV is one way. The V-chip will have dueling results. On the one hand, advertisers will only pay for shows that will have a large viewership. If that means that a rather objectionable show, which would traditionally draw a large population of pre-teens, can't be seen by its largest body of fans, it will probably be cut. On the other hand, TV execs won't have to worry about objections any longer and thus can broadcast what they want, assuming that they can find a decently large group of closet viewers. (Not a misstype, I meant people who are in the closet about their preferences, such as the minister with the playboy channel.) And TV is mostly one way. This net is two way, many of the shock posts were put here to draw fire. If the audience of these shock posts can not be reach to be outraged, the vile spewer will first raise the stakes, spewing even more garbage and then, finally, giving up. Just like the old argument, don't encourage them, just ignore them. Plus, a number of reply posts to the garbage will never be written because thier authors will have never seen the trash that they would have replied to.

1 0

PSS_sst
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

New Scientist of 25 January reviews the Bernstein's case against crypto export, US global seduction of foreign goverrments to suppress domestic calls for privacy, and therewith deftly alerts British leaders and readers to undermining the "secretive bureaucratic" Uncle Sam scam, says the deft-underminer cpunkers quoted. ----- PSS_sst

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2 Questions
by Steven M Orrin 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hey guys, 2 quick questions: Are there any known hacks or weaknesses in S/Key? Has Anyone heard of a new product called SecureWin from Cipher Logics Corp. It looks like vaporware but is a little more sophisticated than the usual product spams (like IPG, POTP, Encrypt-it, WinKrypt etc.) [I checked there web page some interesting fuctions, , No software available yet and Phone numbers are either busy or not in service, go figure] thanks Steveo

1 0

Vulis posting on the moderated list
by E. Allen Smith 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Umm... is something going wrong with the moderation routines? Sandy also had a posting that he specifically _said_ was going to the flames & unedited lists _only_ that got to me. -Allen From: IN%"dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com" "Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM" 24-JAN-1997 12:43:05.89 To: IN%"cypherpunks(a)toad.com" CC: Subj: Homosexuals Received: from toad.com by mbcl.rutgers.edu (PMDF #12194) id <01IELB4M5E1C94FEIV(a)mbcl.rutgers.edu>; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:42 EDT Received: (from majordom@localhost) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA25350; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 06:14:13 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 97 07:17:13 EST From: "Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM" <dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com> Subject: Homosexuals Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Message-id: <199701241414.GAA25350(a)toad.com> X-Envelope-to: EALLENSMITH Precedence: bulk fuck you <satan_is_a_hacker(a)juno.com> writes in the censored list: > If anyone has any text files on the following topics please send them. ... > Anything underground Anything? My good friend TRRCJ3 reports from San Francisco that the city is much nicer now that so many homosexuals are 6 feet under. Thank God for AIDS. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

1 0

RE: Rejection policy of the Cypherpunks maiing list
by jbugden＠smtplink.alis.ca 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

ichudov(a)algebra.com wrote> >Sandy also states rather plainly that crypto-relevance is not the >criterion by which he moderates this list. I question this policy. > >I would like to hear your opinions as to whether such policies >satisfy the current readership. > > - Igor. I am not enthused about the perceived need for moderation. But neither was I enthused with the state of the list. However, I will reserve judgement as to the success or failure of the experiment for a while yet. The question for me is how much the moderation improves the S/N ratio v.s. how much it impedes dialogue. I expect Sandy to make mistakes, even by his own criterion. But anyone who will publicly admit to shaving his eyebrows is probably not swayed by popular opinion. James

1 0

Re: THE NEW YORKER on the V-Chip
by Sean Roach 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 04:57 PM 1/23/97 -0800, Alan Bostick wrote: >In the Jan. 20, 1997, issue of THE NEW YORKER, the "Comment", written by >Malcolm Gladwell, makes a powerful arguement about the unintended >consequences of the V-Chip, the programmable device to be included in >next-generation television sets sold in the US that supposedly will >allow parents to control their children's access to sex and violence on >TV. > >Gladwell makes an analogy between V-Chipped TV content and >air-conditioned cars in the New York City subway system in summertime: >" . . . we need air-conditioners on subway cars because air-conditioners >on subway cars have made stations so hot that subway cars need to be >air-conditioned." Similarly, he argues, "the V-chip is likely to >increase the amount of sex and violence on television, not decrease it" >because when viewers can block offensive programming, there is far less >pressure on broadcasters and cable operators to avoid offending. > >This is just the sort of thing that John Young is given to scanning and >putting up on his Web site or sending out to people who send him email >with FUN_nie subject lines. If I were him, I'd put it up. > >And, for the benefit of those people who don't think the V-Chip isn't in >itself on-topic for cypherpunks, I might point out that Gladwell's >argument applies equally well to mail filtering with procmail recipes -- >or Sandy's and John's list moderation experiment. If the noise level on >the unmoderated list jumps to even higher than we were seeing before >the moderation began, that would provide observational support to >Gladwell's argument. You forgot about one thing, TV is one way. The V-chip will have dueling results. On the one hand, advertisers will only pay for shows that will have a large viewership. If that means that a rather objectionable show, which would traditionally draw a large population of pre-teens, can't be seen by its largest body of fans, it will probably be cut. On the other hand, TV execs won't have to worry about objections any longer and thus can broadcast what they want, assuming that they can find a decently large group of closet viewers. (Not a misstype, I meant people who are in the closet about their preferences, such as the minister with the playboy channel.) And TV is mostly one way. This net is two way, many of the shock posts were put here to draw fire. If the audience of these shock posts can not be reach to be outraged, the vile spewer will first raise the stakes, spewing even more garbage and then, finally, giving up. Just like the old argument, don't encourage them, just ignore them. Plus, a number of reply posts to the garbage will never be written because thier authors will have never seen the trash that they would have replied to.

1 0

[DES] DES Key Recovery Project, Progress Report #7
by Peter Trei 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

DES Key Recovery Project, Progress Report #7 Friday, Jan 23 1997 Peter Trei Next Tuesday morning, 9AM, RSA is scheduled to release the 'real' $10,000 DES challenge data. My software is in a state where it can be used for the challenge, though there is room for improvement. It currently tests about 185,000 keys/sec on my 90MHz machine. This translates to about 205,000 keys/sec on a 100 MHz machine. I still have to replace my DES round, which takes 25 clock cycles, with Svend Mikkelsen's, which takes only 18. Since the DES rounds are well over 80% of the work, this should boost the speed to over 250,000 keys/sec at 100 MHz. If I'm lucky, I'll perform this conversion over the weekend. I've sent out early betas to a few people for porting, but have had no feedback yet. I've approached several restricted FTP sites as possible distribution sites, and have had some positive responses, but nothing definitive yet. I'm being pretty strict in my interpretation of EAR for this purpose. In advance of the challenge, I'm willing to email copies as a ~100k uuencoded zip file to people, but to do so, you must comply with the following: 1. Send the request to ptrei(a)acm.org, NOT trei(a)process.com. I won't be able to read the latter for the next 10 days. 2. Include your 'true name' and residence address, as well as the email address to which it should be sent, . 3. A statement of your nationality. I'll mail it only to US Citizens, Canadian citizens, and US Green Card holders, residing in the US or Canada. 4. A statement to the effect that you understand that this is restricted code, and that cannot be exported or given to non-US/Canadian citizens I'm going to hold this information in strict confidence, and will surrender it only to a valid court order. It's similar to what you have to go through to download the domestic version of Netscape Navigator or PGP from MIT. You are free to distribute the software further. If you've complied with the requirements above, I believe that at that point I've done more than due diligence under ITAR/EAR. My software gets it's challenge data either from a text file cut-and-pasted from the RSA page, or from internally stored data. Tuesday night, I'll recompile the program with the real challenge data, and redistribute. My version runs on WinNT or Win95, on 486's and above. It's set up as a console app, which can run in background. I don't yet have a version for Win 3.1 or below 486, but may do in the future. The software is set up in such a way that it can be used either on a standalone system, or in a LAN environment with shared disks. The latter has a slightly more complex setup, but will allow many machines to share one executable and results file. I envisage people installing one copy on a shared disk in their workplace, and then adding the appropriate commands to the autoexec.bat file of every machine they can, so the program will start running whenever the machine is booted. (I HOPE you get permission!). The distribution includes both source and the Win32 executable. The source includes both fast Intel assembler, and much slower generic 'C'. There's nothing that's really Microsoft specific in the code - it should be easy to port to other systems with 32 bit or better processors. I'm attempting to do a 'PGP style' distribution with a signed, nested zip file. The signing key I'm using is available at http://www.ziplink.net/users/trei/crypto.html (I hope I've done this right). I'm only going to send out signed archives. If you get one where the signature fails, or one lacking a signature, I repudiate it - and you should be suspicous of it. I'll be trying to set up that URL as a page describing the project, with info on other efforts, and FAQs. Once the challenge starts, I hope you'll all evangelize it to your friends and acquaintences. I'd like to see 100,000 machines trying for the $10,000. All next week I'm in the San Francisco area (I'm flying out in a couple hours). I'll be attending the Verisign Partner's Day on Monday, and I'll be at the RSA Data Security Conference Tuesday through Friday. I'll be trying to read cypherpunks and coderpunks at least once a day, along with checking mail to ptrei(a)acm.org. I can't read cryptography(a)c2.net from an archive, so I will not see it unless it cc's ptrei(a)acm.org (Perry, could you temporarily subscribe ptrei(a)acm.org?) Happy hunting! Peter Trei ptrei(a)acm.org

1 0

Just drop you a note
by biz25＠prodigy.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi, Just thought I would drop you a note letting you know of an opportunity that I came across lately. I have been amazed at the success I have had with this product. Please email me for URL (more details) if you are interested. Type "URL" in the subject line. Regards Sonia

1 0

Re: your mail
by Genocide 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Fri, 24 Jan 1997, fuck you wrote: > Are their any H/ P/ V/ A/ C ers on this list?? Yes. Genocide Head of the Genocide2600 Group ============================================================================ **Coming soon! www.Genocide2600.com! ____________________ *---===| |===---* *---===| Genocide |===---* "You can be a king or a street *---===| 2600 |===---* sweeper, but everyone dances with the *---===|__________________|===---* Grim Reaper." Email: gen2600(a)aracnet.com Web: http://www.aracnet.com/~gen2600 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion. It is by the Mountain Dew that the thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion. ================================================================================

1 0

Mondex
by nobody＠zifi.genetics.utah.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timothy C. May has been fired from Intel for stealing office supplies. o \ o / _ o __| \ / |__ o _ \ o / o /|\ | /\ ___\o \o | o/ o/__ /\ | /|\ Timothy C. May / \ / \ | \ /) | ( \ /o\ / ) | (\ / | / \ / \

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[DES] DES Key Recovery Project, Progress Report #7
by Peter Trei 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

DES Key Recovery Project, Progress Report #7 Friday, Jan 23 1997 Peter Trei Next Tuesday morning, 9AM, RSA is scheduled to release the 'real' $10,000 DES challenge data. My software is in a state where it can be used for the challenge, though there is room for improvement. It currently tests about 185,000 keys/sec on my 90MHz machine. This translates to about 205,000 keys/sec on a 100 MHz machine. I still have to replace my DES round, which takes 25 clock cycles, with Svend Mikkelsen's, which takes only 18. Since the DES rounds are well over 80% of the work, this should boost the speed to over 250,000 keys/sec at 100 MHz. If I'm lucky, I'll perform this conversion over the weekend. I've sent out early betas to a few people for porting, but have had no feedback yet. I've approached several restricted FTP sites as possible distribution sites, and have had some positive responses, but nothing definitive yet. I'm being pretty strict in my interpretation of EAR for this purpose. In advance of the challenge, I'm willing to email copies as a ~100k uuencoded zip file to people, but to do so, you must comply with the following: 1. Send the request to ptrei(a)acm.org, NOT trei(a)process.com. I won't be able to read the latter for the next 10 days. 2. Include your 'true name' and residence address, as well as the email address to which it should be sent, . 3. A statement of your nationality. I'll mail it only to US Citizens, Canadian citizens, and US Green Card holders, residing in the US or Canada. 4. A statement to the effect that you understand that this is restricted code, and that cannot be exported or given to non-US/Canadian citizens I'm going to hold this information in strict confidence, and will surrender it only to a valid court order. It's similar to what you have to go through to download the domestic version of Netscape Navigator or PGP from MIT. You are free to distribute the software further. If you've complied with the requirements above, I believe that at that point I've done more than due diligence under ITAR/EAR. My software gets it's challenge data either from a text file cut-and-pasted from the RSA page, or from internally stored data. Tuesday night, I'll recompile the program with the real challenge data, and redistribute. My version runs on WinNT or Win95, on 486's and above. It's set up as a console app, which can run in background. I don't yet have a version for Win 3.1 or below 486, but may do in the future. The software is set up in such a way that it can be used either on a standalone system, or in a LAN environment with shared disks. The latter has a slightly more complex setup, but will allow many machines to share one executable and results file. I envisage people installing one copy on a shared disk in their workplace, and then adding the appropriate commands to the autoexec.bat file of every machine they can, so the program will start running whenever the machine is booted. (I HOPE you get permission!). The distribution includes both source and the Win32 executable. The source includes both fast Intel assembler, and much slower generic 'C'. There's nothing that's really Microsoft specific in the code - it should be easy to port to other systems with 32 bit or better processors. I'm attempting to do a 'PGP style' distribution with a signed, nested zip file. The signing key I'm using is available at http://www.ziplink.net/users/trei/crypto.html (I hope I've done this right). I'm only going to send out signed archives. If you get one where the signature fails, or one lacking a signature, I repudiate it - and you should be suspicous of it. I'll be trying to set up that URL as a page describing the project, with info on other efforts, and FAQs. Once the challenge starts, I hope you'll all evangelize it to your friends and acquaintences. I'd like to see 100,000 machines trying for the $10,000. All next week I'm in the San Francisco area (I'm flying out in a couple hours). I'll be attending the Verisign Partner's Day on Monday, and I'll be at the RSA Data Security Conference Tuesday through Friday. I'll be trying to read cypherpunks and coderpunks at least once a day, along with checking mail to ptrei(a)acm.org. I can't read cryptography(a)c2.net from an archive, so I will not see it unless it cc's ptrei(a)acm.org (Perry, could you temporarily subscribe ptrei(a)acm.org?) Happy hunting! Peter Trei ptrei(a)acm.org

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Re: Encrypting ZIP disks
by David E. Smith 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I'm playing with SecureDrive; the problem is not with using it with a Zip disk so much as it is trying to get it to play nice with Windows 95. ObCrypto: Check this out (from the readme.txt that comes on every Zip disk before you delete it) 7. Secure sensitive files. To keep sensitive or confidential information safe, store it on a Zip disk and use your Zip Tools software to assign a password that must be used in order to read from or write to the disk. At work, you can protect sensitive information such as personnel files, company directories, and product plans and designs. At home, you can secure personal information such as tax records, budgets, and computerized checkbooks. Iomega hasn't been willing to tell me how the password is stored, so this looks like a big boiling pot of snake oil. Anyone out there played with Zip drive/disk internals and know how it works? dave

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Online Spending with Smart Cards and E.Cash to To US$3.5bn byyear 2000
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text Date: Fri, 24 Jan 97 00:04:40 +0100 To: dcsb(a)ai.mit.edu Subject: Online Spending with Smart Cards and E.Cash to To US$3.5bn by year 2000 Cc: nelson@media.mit.edu.geer@OpenMarket.com From: a9050756(a)unet.univie.ac.at (Mike Alexander) Sender: bounce-dcsb(a)ai.mit.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: a9050756(a)unet.univie.ac.at (Mike Alexander) >>[some Fed reserve guy's] argument for stored value cards is that the >>business costs of handling cash are so substantial that there is room >>for merchants to discount purchases when made by a means that does >>not require that handling cost. > >Does anyone know of a source for information on the overhead of >accepting various forms of payment? I assume the cost of cash is >smaller than credit cards for purchases under, say, $500. Any >estimates on smart cards? On pure digital cash (delivered via a >browser)? > >I'm particularly interested in micropayments, but the larger question >is interesting as well. I've worked on this topic extensively in the past months (writing a doctoral thesis on efficiency and risk in the payment system). I can assure you this: cash in is still and will remain one of the most efficient payment instruments. This holds looking at it from a private as well as social cost perspective with sufficient empirical support. Best Regards, Michael Alexander Doctoral Student at the University of Vienna -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.3i mQCNAzIhxYwAAAEEALtfkL/X6GuZpEECWnmkmbqqtGwNalb94Om82VUiBE8iU1OX 2e5WXQGsq1oManSqVQn3TpVo7VE9pMJr5vITAmkEA6szGRt5zbK5u/dIqhLnJnRE sVpiY61Xw6RvQKoXX7LSqOYSCqvIiY8GJ5gRpiKQNPZVuJRqbLipmU0fPqylAAUR tDFNaWNoYWVsIEYuIEFsZXhhbmRlciA8YTkwNTA3NTZAdW5ldC51bml2aWUuYWMu YXQ+iQCVAwUQMiHFjbipmU0fPqylAQGy4QP+LjB6lZXVYFZDpoVB7j8AGvkghSsr XicZapXPmsFX6xpt+S29EF4DGoDJIDq6VLJMZ2rQ1gFfEvvWzL7ekZ3orhLSpJoO WWRZF1MNZVWBNhzxBcdK2T6yrx4cBwQX7t299Ho0y1Go69VE9e3LN8YInIXoQYp5 bc4M0u16GqmV5eI= =5l49 -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To unsubscribe from the dcsb list, send a letter to: Majordomo(a)ai.mit.edu In the body of the message, write: unsubscribe dcsb Or, to subscribe, write: subscribe dcsb If you have questions, write to me at Owner-DCSB(a)ai.mit.edu --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "The cost of anything is the foregone alternative" -- Walter Johnson The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/rah/ FC97: Anguilla, anyone? http://www.ai/fc97/ "If *you* don't go to FC97, *I* don't go to FC97"

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RE: Rejection policy of the Cypherpunks maiing list
by Mullen, Patrick 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Igor sez: >Sandy also states rather plainly that crypto-relevance is not the >criterion by which he moderates this list. I question this policy. I question this, too. What, exactly, is the criterion? Cypherpunks charter sez: The cypherpunks list is a forum for discussing personal defenses for privacy in the digital domain. <Keep in mind I didn't read the described article> How does personal attacks through forged and anonymous mail not fit this topic? However, I _do_ have to say such a topic would have to keep with a descriptive attitude, rather than demonstrative... :-) On another note, even though some messages which may be of interest may get lost in the shuffle, I do like the reduced volume, esp. since I get listmail at work. Unfortunately, the reduced mail is a result of censorship... :-( ~ Patrick >---------- >From: ichudov@algebra.com[SMTP:ichudov@algebra.com] >Sent: Friday, January 24, 1997 2:33 AM >To: Cypherpunks >Subject: Rejection policy of the Cypherpunks maiing list > >I would like to start a thread to discuss the moderation and rejection >policy. > >My perfectly crypto-relevant article regarding possible attacks >on human relationships with the use of forged mail and anonymous >remailers, has been tossed out (sorted) into cypherpunks-flames >mailing list. > >You can receive a copy of my article by an email request. > >The explanation that Sandy Sandfort gave me mentioned that he rejected >my message because it continued a thread where Sandy noticed instances >of "flaming". Note that my message was free of any flames, including >its quoted part. > >Sandy also states rather plainly that crypto-relevance is not the >criterion by which he moderates this list. I question this policy. > >I would like to hear your opinions as to whether such policies satisfy >the current readership. > > - Igor. > >

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Re: Encrypting ZIP disks
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

David E. Smith wrote: > I'm playing with SecureDrive; the problem is not with using it > with a Zip disk so much as it is trying to get it to play nice > with Windows 95. > Iomega hasn't been willing to tell me how the password is stored, > so this looks like a big boiling pot of snake oil. Anyone out > there played with Zip drive/disk internals and know how it works? > Dave, I came across a 'cracker' program that claims to be able to hack the SecureDrive encryption system. Off the top of my head, I think it was called ZipCracker, or something similar in name to one of the PKZip encryption cracking programs. I found it on one of the hacker websites, and there was a text file regarding SecureDrive which went into some detail re: both the hardware and software aspects of the Zip drives and the encryption itself. Toto

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RE: Rejection policy of the Cypherpunks maiing list
by Mullen 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Igor sez: >Sandy also states rather plainly that crypto-relevance is not the >criterion by which he moderates this list. I question this policy. I question this, too. What, exactly, is the criterion? Cypherpunks charter sez: The cypherpunks list is a forum for discussing personal defenses for privacy in the digital domain. <Keep in mind I didn't read the described article> How does personal attacks through forged and anonymous mail not fit this topic? However, I _do_ have to say such a topic would have to keep with a descriptive attitude, rather than demonstrative... :-) On another note, even though some messages which may be of interest may get lost in the shuffle, I do like the reduced volume, esp. since I get listmail at work. Unfortunately, the reduced mail is a result of censorship... :-( ~ Patrick >---------- >From: ichudov@algebra.com[SMTP:ichudov@algebra.com] >Sent: Friday, January 24, 1997 2:33 AM >To: Cypherpunks >Subject: Rejection policy of the Cypherpunks maiing list > >I would like to start a thread to discuss the moderation and rejection >policy. > >My perfectly crypto-relevant article regarding possible attacks >on human relationships with the use of forged mail and anonymous >remailers, has been tossed out (sorted) into cypherpunks-flames >mailing list. > >You can receive a copy of my article by an email request. > >The explanation that Sandy Sandfort gave me mentioned that he rejected >my message because it continued a thread where Sandy noticed instances >of "flaming". Note that my message was free of any flames, including >its quoted part. > >Sandy also states rather plainly that crypto-relevance is not the >criterion by which he moderates this list. I question this policy. > >I would like to hear your opinions as to whether such policies satisfy >the current readership. > > - Igor. > >

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Re: Homosexuals
by Attila T. Hun 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <199701241414.GAA25350(a)toad.com>, on 01/24/97 at 07:17 AM, "Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM" <dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com> said: +Anything? My good friend TRRCJ3 reports from San Francisco that the +city is much nicer now that so many homosexuals are 6 feet under. +Thank God for AIDS. when AIDS was relatively obscure, I always dismissed AIDS as God's response to homosexuality (and other crimes against nature); i.e. -settlement by a just God. Unfortunately, some of these boy-girls could not keep it among themselves, and the closet queens brought it home. AIDS replicates asexually, knowing no boundaries. I would not wish the disease upon anyone, but if you play, you just might pay --as in "...reap what thy hath sown." One of the saddest commentaries on the entire problem is the man, a Pan-American flight steward, who was identified as carrier #1 by the Communicable Disease Center (CDC) in Atlanta; he died protesting he did not have the disease, nor was he a carrier. The flight steward was still sexually active until his impending death removed even his ability to passively participate. Unfortunately, he was not only in total denial as to the disease and its communicability, but he was also immensely profligate, having surrendered to total licentiousnous. To be strongly opposed to homosexuality has nothing to do with bigotry, political correctness, or aberrationist apologists; it is an exposition of the natural order among the species. and for those who deny God, read Darwin as to the relative rate of survival for deviant and/or abnormal species. == "eschewing my enmity is exemplary, even transcending my fraternity. --attila -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: latin1 Comment: Encrypted with 2.6.3i. Requires 2.6 or later. iQCVAwUBMukZO704kQrCC2kFAQHdVgP+K5WJPhgPDY3DJerIYHmz4PbsItrSQCF0 eoS2wyYVTG3PZ5YDhk+dRfn2OuhEE0n/vLiDlXakAjqQBtncyIF74pfE4mxn3DWC 1xLMJr9vFI7x0soX6sPIzSD9Yh0CyKHIk75r/RQk2T4doVoGSxJWbe0YKCItiGz4 PvH9hGh6F7E= =A2up -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Encrypting ZIP disks
by David E. Smith 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I'm playing with SecureDrive; the problem is not with using it with a Zip disk so much as it is trying to get it to play nice with Windows 95. ObCrypto: Check this out (from the readme.txt that comes on every Zip disk before you delete it) 7. Secure sensitive files. To keep sensitive or confidential information safe, store it on a Zip disk and use your Zip Tools software to assign a password that must be used in order to read from or write to the disk. At work, you can protect sensitive information such as personnel files, company directories, and product plans and designs. At home, you can secure personal information such as tax records, budgets, and computerized checkbooks. Iomega hasn't been willing to tell me how the password is stored, so this looks like a big boiling pot of snake oil. Anyone out there played with Zip drive/disk internals and know how it works? dave

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Online Spending with Smart Cards and E.Cash to To US$3.5bn by year 2000
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text Date: Fri, 24 Jan 97 00:04:40 +0100 To: dcsb(a)ai.mit.edu Subject: Online Spending with Smart Cards and E.Cash to To US$3.5bn by year 2000 Cc: nelson@media.mit.edu.geer@OpenMarket.com From: a9050756(a)unet.univie.ac.at (Mike Alexander) Sender: bounce-dcsb(a)ai.mit.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: a9050756(a)unet.univie.ac.at (Mike Alexander) >>[some Fed reserve guy's] argument for stored value cards is that the >>business costs of handling cash are so substantial that there is room >>for merchants to discount purchases when made by a means that does >>not require that handling cost. > >Does anyone know of a source for information on the overhead of >accepting various forms of payment? I assume the cost of cash is >smaller than credit cards for purchases under, say, $500. Any >estimates on smart cards? On pure digital cash (delivered via a >browser)? > >I'm particularly interested in micropayments, but the larger question >is interesting as well. I've worked on this topic extensively in the past months (writing a doctoral thesis on efficiency and risk in the payment system). I can assure you this: cash in is still and will remain one of the most efficient payment instruments. This holds looking at it from a private as well as social cost perspective with sufficient empirical support. Best Regards, Michael Alexander Doctoral Student at the University of Vienna -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.3i mQCNAzIhxYwAAAEEALtfkL/X6GuZpEECWnmkmbqqtGwNalb94Om82VUiBE8iU1OX 2e5WXQGsq1oManSqVQn3TpVo7VE9pMJr5vITAmkEA6szGRt5zbK5u/dIqhLnJnRE sVpiY61Xw6RvQKoXX7LSqOYSCqvIiY8GJ5gRpiKQNPZVuJRqbLipmU0fPqylAAUR tDFNaWNoYWVsIEYuIEFsZXhhbmRlciA8YTkwNTA3NTZAdW5ldC51bml2aWUuYWMu YXQ+iQCVAwUQMiHFjbipmU0fPqylAQGy4QP+LjB6lZXVYFZDpoVB7j8AGvkghSsr XicZapXPmsFX6xpt+S29EF4DGoDJIDq6VLJMZ2rQ1gFfEvvWzL7ekZ3orhLSpJoO WWRZF1MNZVWBNhzxBcdK2T6yrx4cBwQX7t299Ho0y1Go69VE9e3LN8YInIXoQYp5 bc4M0u16GqmV5eI= =5l49 -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To unsubscribe from the dcsb list, send a letter to: Majordomo(a)ai.mit.edu In the body of the message, write: unsubscribe dcsb Or, to subscribe, write: subscribe dcsb If you have questions, write to me at Owner-DCSB(a)ai.mit.edu --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "The cost of anything is the foregone alternative" -- Walter Johnson The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/rah/ FC97: Anguilla, anyone? http://www.ai/fc97/ "If *you* don't go to FC97, *I* don't go to FC97"

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CPSR President Aki Namioka Interviewed on "Real Time" Monday
by ISP-TV Main Contact 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

*** ISP-TV Program Announcement: CPSR President Aki Namioka Interviewed on "Real Time" *** *** Monday, Jan. 27 *** *** 9 PM ET / 6 PM PT *** Aki Namioka is President of the Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility (CPSR), a non-profit, public-interest group which advocates for civil rights with respect to electronic information. Netizens may remember Namioka's speech against the CDA at Seattle's "Internet Day of Protest" Rally. We'll ask Ms. Namioka about the history of the CPSR, and current issues CPSR follows in cyber rights, civil liberties, and technology education. She will be interviewed remotely over CU-SeeMe from the Speakeasy Cafe in Seattle, Washington (http://www.speakeasy.org/) Call-in questions will be taken during the show at (301) 847-6571. **** This video interview can be viewed on the ISP-TV main CU-SeeMe reflector at IP 205.197.248.54, or other ISP-TV affiliate reflectors listed at http://www.digex.net/isptv/members.html. See URL http://www.digex.net/isptv for more information about the ISP-TV Network To get email about future programming on ISP-TV, email the word "subscribe" to isptv-prog-request(a)isptv.digex.net. To obtain Enhanced CU-SeeMe software, go to: http://goliath.wpine.com/cudownload.htm

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Re: Homo/bi/sexuals Most Destructive
by Attila T. Hun 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

aga's original message follows pgp----- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- when AIDS was relatively obscure, I always dismissed AIDS as God's response to homosexuality (and other crimes against nature); i.e. -settlement by a just God. Unfortunately, some of these boy-girls could not keep it among themselves, and the closet queens brought it home. AIDS replicates asexually, knowing no boundaries. I would not wish the disease upon anyone, but if you play, you just might pay --as in "...reap what thy hath sown." One of the saddest commentaries on the entire problem is the man, a Pan-American flight steward, who was identified as carrier #1 by the Communicable Disease Center (CDC) in Atlanta; he died protesting he did not have the disease, nor was he a carrier. The flight steward was still sexually active until his impending death removed even his ability to passively participate. Unfortunately, he was not only in total denial as to the disease and its communicability, but he was also immensely profligate, having surrendered to total licentiousnous. To be strongly opposed to homosexuality has nothing to do with bigotry, political correctness, or aberrationist apologists; it is an exposition of the natural order among the species. and for those who deny God, read Darwin as to the relative rate of survival for deviant and/or abnormal species. == "eschewing my enmity is exemplary, even transcending my fraternity. --attila -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: latin1 Comment: Encrypted with 2.6.3i. Requires 2.6 or later. iQCVAwUBMukqX704kQrCC2kFAQGsDAQAxAMLt2JwaKqfz1Kw5IMf+EAQnQaoxpzR LtyTbCEvwhZRymfFwLZPj3P9Ph074ufOv0r/EmntvF2KmTETWM7k8ol5EySGjCbf 2mytxMy5VQiy5TBJWCvnxwdp/UjACtBM1sY8X16UyMLSE0tyzy4k3sF0TmPPkKdG FUQZzjXwYfQ= =TNlj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- In <Pine.LNX.3.95.970116062523.30623C-100000(a)dhp.com>, on 01/16/97 at 06:28 AM, aga <aga(a)dhp.com> said: +> "Who Are The Patients? +> "In the United States, homosexual and bisexual males make up > +approximately 62 percent of the total patients. The other major group > +afflicted with AIDS are intravenous drug abusers -- both men and women +-- +> who constitute 20 percent of the total. . . ." +> +> "ADULTS AND ADOLESCENTS WITH AIDS, 1981-87 +> ================================== Males % Females % Both sexes +% > Homosexual/bisexual males 50,325 68 0 +50,325 62 > Intravenous (IV) drug abusers 12,529 17 3,622 52 +16,151 20 > Homosexual male an IV drug abusers 5,874 8 +5,874 7 > Hemophilia/coagulation disorder 751 1 22 0 +773 1 > Heterosexuals 1,516 2 2,073 30 +3,589 4 > Blood transfusion 1,297 2 747 11 +2,044 3 > Undetermined (1) 2,143 3 519 7 +2,662 3 > TOTAL 74,435 91 6,983 9 +81,418 100 > +========================================================================= +> "Note: Provisional data. Cases with more than one risk factor than +the > combinations listed are tabulated only in the category listed +first. > (1) Includes patients on whom risk information is incomplete, +patients > still under investigation, men reported only to have had +heterosexual > contact with a prostitute, and patients for whom no +specific risk was > identified; also includes one health care worker +who developed AIDS after > a documented needle-stick to blood. Source: +Centers for Disease Control." > +========================================================================= +> Cited in "The Universal Almanac 1990", Andrews and McMeel, 1989. > +=========================================================================

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Re: Rejection policy of the Cypherpunks maiing list
by Cynthia H. Brown 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Fri, 24 Jan 1997, Toto wrote: > Igor Chudov @ home wrote: <snip> > > The explanation that Sandy Sandfort gave me mentioned that he rejected > > my message because it continued a thread where Sandy noticed instances > > of "flaming". Note that my message was free of any flames, including > > its quoted part. > > The standard of what constitutes a 'flame' seems to rest very much > upon whom a comment is directed at, or merely 'vaguely toward'. Beauty, flames and censorship are all in the eyes of the beholder. However, by providing both "raw" and "cooked" versions of the list, Sandy is allowing readers to choose for themselves whether or not they want someone else's filters applied to their mailbox. Personally, I choose to press the "Delete" key myself. <snip> > > Sandy also states rather plainly that crypto-relevance is not the > > criterion by which he moderates this list. > > This was more than obvious to anyone who cared to cast an objective > eye on the process, but their input was pooh-paah'd by the 'washed > masses'. Note that Sandy also stated that the post in question would not be sent to the 'washed masses'. > > I would like to hear your opinions as to whether such policies satisfy > > the current readership. > > Like all of the 'opinions' that were expressed prior to the censorship > of the list? I haven't seen any indication that these opinions were > given the slightest consideration. This is not the readership's list. > It is a private individual's list. Agreed, and said private individual can do as s/he sees fit. My only objection is that the moderated version has the same name as the original list (sounds like Rogers Cable's recent attempt at "Costs More Unless You Speak Up Now" channels). <snip> > In short, I don't see the moderation as being 'fair', and I don't > think it was ever meant to be. Again, fairness is in the eyes of the beholder. I don't object to the list being filtered, as long as everyone understands that this is happening. What will happen, I wonder, if at the end of the trial period the number of subscribers to the "raw" list outnumbers those who get the "cooked" list, or vice versa? Is that one of the criteria for determining the "success" of the experiment? Cynthia =============================================================== Cynthia H. Brown, P.Eng. Ottawa, Ontario, Canada E-mail: cynthb(a)sonetis.com Home Page: http://www.sonetis.com/~cynthb/ PGP Key: See Home Page Junk mail will be ignored in the order in which it is received. Klein bottle for rent; enquire within.

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