Below is a transcript of the linked youtube view, from youtube.com ("show transcript") using this javascript code in the chrome developer console: console.log(Array.from(document.querySelectorAll('ytd-transcript-segment-renderer')).map(el => el.textContent.trim().replace(/\s+/g, ' ')).join('\n\n')); On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 2:34 PM Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 <punks@tfwno.gf> wrote:

Karl wrote:

...

<we can come up with these forever, and have the next one drafted too,

Those were pretty good. A charming portrait of our brave new world, created by 'technology'. Speaking of which, you might find this interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WaUkZXKA30

It's a talk from a guy called aldous huxley in the ~1960s, in which he discusses how Scientific Progress will achieve ultimate mind control. Just the thing for our Enlightened Technology Worshippers and their insane garbage about 'crossbows'.

...

but it is too hard to continue for me to write it right now. it involves describing what it is like to communicate things when your behavior and medical treatment are augmented by machine learning algorithms each made or influenced by a different warring faction trying to manipulate you toward their own particular ends. sorry ran out of steam, got triggered too badly in #4>

0:00 yes mr. Aldous Huxley now an essay is marvelous who during the spring semester 0:05 is residing at the University and its capacity as a Ford research professor mr. Huxley has recently returned from a 0:12 conference at the Institute for the Study of democratic institutions in Santa Barbara where the discussion 0:18 focused on the development of new techniques by which to control indirect uman behavior traditionally it is 0:25 impossible to suppress individual freedom through the application of physical coercion through the appeal of 0:32 ideologies through the manipulation of man's physical and social environment and more recently smoothie that 0:39 techniques the cruded techniques of psychological conditioning the ultimate revolution about which mr. Huxley will 0:46 speak today concerns itself with the development of new behavioral controls which operate directly upon the 0:53 psychophysiological organisms of man that is the capacity to replace external 0:58 constraint by internal compulsions as those of us who are familiar with mr. Huxley's a works well know this is a 1:05 subject with which he has been concerned for quite a period of time mr. Huxley 1:10 will make a presentation of approximately half an hour followed by some brief discussions and questions by 1:16 the two panelists sitting to my left of Miss Lillian Rivlin and mr. John post and mr. Huxley 1:31 first of all the I would like to say that the conference of Santa Barbara was 1:37 not directly concerned with the control of the mind that was a conference there 1:42 have been two of them now the University of California Medical Center in San Francisco won this year which I did 1:48 entertain and one two years ago where where there was a considerable discussion on this subject at Santa 1:55 Barbara we were talking about technology in general and the the effects it's 2:00 likely to have on society and the problems related to technological with 2:07 transplanting of technology and technology into underdeveloped countries 2:12 well now in regard to this problem of the ultimate revolution this has been 2:20 very well summed up by the moderator in the past we can say that all revolutions 2:26 have essentially aimed at changing the environment in order to change the 2:33 individual I mean there's been the political revolution the economic 2:40 revolution in the time of the Reformation the religious revolution all 2:48 these aims as I say not directly at the human being but at his surroundings so 2:55 that by modifying the surroundings you did achieve in at one remove an effect 3:02 upon the human being today we are faced 3:08 I think we see approach of what may be called the ultimate revolution the final 3:13 revolution where a man can act directly on the mind body of his fellows well 3:21 needless to say some kind of direct action on human mind bodies has been 3:26 going on since the beginning of time but this has generally been of a violent 3:33 nature the techniques of terrorism have been known from time Memorial and people have employed them 3:40 with more or less ingenuity sometimes with the Atmos crudité sometimes with a 3:47 good deal of skill inquire acquired by a process of trial and error of finding 3:53 out what the best ways of using taught imprisonment constraints of various 4:01 kinds but as I think it was the metonic 4:07 said many years ago you can do everything with bare Nets except sit on 4:12 them that if you are going to control any population for any length of time 4:19 you must have some measure of consent it's exceedingly difficult to see how 4:25 pure terrorism can function indefinitely it can function for a fairly long time 4:31 but I think sooner or later you have to bring in an element of persuasion an 4:36 element of of getting people to consent to what is happening to them well it 4:42 seems to me that the the nature of the ultimate revolution with which we are now faced is precisely this that we are 4:50 in process of developing a whole series of techniques which will enable the 4:58 controlling oligarchy who have always existed and presumably always will exist 5:04 to get people actually to love their 5:10 servitude though this you see seems to me the the ultimate in malevolent 5:16 revolutions where we say and this is a this is a problem which has interested 5:22 me for many years and about which I wrote 30 years ago a fable the brave new 5:28 world which is essentially the account of a society making use of all the 5:36 devices at that time available and some of the devices which I imagined to be 5:44 possible making use of them in order to first of all to 5:49 standard a is the population to iron out I inconvenient human dis differences to 5:58 create so to say mass-produced two models of human beings arranged in some 6:06 kind of a scientific caste system and 6:11 since then I have continued to be extremely interested in this problem and 6:19 I have noticed with increasing dismay that a number of the predictions which 6:26 were purely fantastic when I made them 30 years ago have become true or seem in 6:32 process of coming true that a number of techniques about which I talked seem to 6:38 be here already and that there seems to be a general movement in the direction 6:45 of this kind of ultimate revolution this this method of control by which people 6:52 can be made to enjoy a state of affairs which by any decent standard they ought 7:00 not to enjoy this I mean the enjoyment of of servitude 7:06 well they listen this process as I say 7:13 has gone on for over over the years and if I become more and more interested in 7:23 what is happening and here I would like briefly to to compare what the parable 7:33 of brave new world with another parable which was put forth more recently in 7:39 George Orwell's book 1984 Orwell wrote 7:45 his book between I think between 45 and 48 at the time when the Stellina or 7:52 Salinas to terror regime was still in full swing and just after the collapse 7:59 of the Hilarion terror regime and he book here which I admire greatly the 8:04 book of gravity great talent and extraordinary ingenuity road shows M is 8:13 so to say a projection into the future of the immediate past of what for him 8:19 was the immediate pastor and the immediate present it was a projection into the future of a society where 8:26 control was exercised wholly by terrorism and the violent attacks upon 8:36 the mind body of individuals whereas my own book which was written in in 1932 8:45 when there was only a mild dictatorship in the form of Mussolini in existence 8:51 was not overshadowed by the idea of terrorism and I was there for free in a 8:59 way which Orwell was not free but to think about these other methods of 9:04 control the these nonviolent methods and 9:10 my I'm inclined to think that the scientific dictatorships of the future 9:17 and I think they're going to be scientific dictatorships in many parts of the world will be probably a good 9:23 deal nearer to the brave new world pattern then to the 1984 pattern they 9:30 will be a good yanira not because of any humanitarian qualms in the design 9:35 typically caters but simply because the brave new world pattern is probably a 9:41 good deal more efficient than the other but if you can get people to consent to 9:47 the state of affairs in which they are living the state of servitude the state of being having their differences ironed 9:53 out and being made amenable to mass production methods on the social level 10:00 if you can do this then you have you are likely to have a much more stable and 10:07 much more lasting society much more easily controllable society than you 10:12 would if you were relying holy on clubs and firing squads and concentration camps so that my own 10:21 feeling is that the 1984 picture was tinged of course by the immediate past 10:30 and the present in which or where was living but a team that the past and present of those years does not 10:37 represent I feel the likely trend of what is going to happen needless to say 10:44 we shall never get rid of terrorism this will always find its way to the surface 10:49 but I think that insofar as dictators 10:54 become more and more scientific more and more concerned with a technically perfect perfectly running society they 11:03 will be more and more interested in the kind of techniques which I imagined and 11:12 described from existing realities in brave new world so that it seems to me 11:22 then that this ultimate revolution is really not very far away that we already 11:28 the a number of the techniques for bringing about this kind of controller 11:34 here and it remains to be seen when and where and by whom they will first be 11:41 applied in any large scale and first let 11:47 me talk about a little bit about the improvement even in the techniques of terrorism I think there there have been 11:55 improvements to the T the Pavlov after 12:01 all Maidan extremely profound observations both on animals and on human beings and he found among other 12:09 things that that conditioning techniques 12:14 apply to animals or humans in a state either of psychological or physical 12:20 stress sang Keynes have to say very deeply into the main body of the creature and 12:27 we're extremely difficult to get rid of that they seem to be embedded more deep 12:33 pleasant than other forms of conditioning and this of course this 12:38 fact I think was discovered empirically in the past people did make use of many 12:45 of these techniques but at the difference between the the old empirical 12:51 intuitive methods and our own methods is the difference between a sort of 12:56 hit-and-miss craftsmen's point of view and the genuinely scientific point of 13:03 view I mean I think there is a real difference between ourselves and say the 13:09 inquisitors of the sixteenth century we know much more precisely what we are 13:14 doing but than they knew and we can extend because of our theoretical knowledge we can extend what we are 13:22 doing over a wider area with a greater assurance of of being producing 13:30 something which really works in this context I would like to mention the 13:36 extremely interesting chapters in dr. William sergeant's the battle for the 13:43 mind where he points out how intuitively some of the great religious teachers 13:51 leaders of the past the hit on the Pavlovian method he he speaks specifically of a Weasley's method of 13:59 producing conversions which were essentially based upon other technique 14:04 of heightening psychological stress to the limit by talking about hail fire and 14:11 so making people extremely vulnerable to suggestion and then suddenly releasing 14:18 this stress by offering the hopes of heaven and this is a very interesting trip time showing how how completely on 14:27 early intuitive and empirical grounds a a skill natural psychologists as Wesley 14:34 was or could discover these Pavlovian methods well as I say we now know the 14:42 reason why these techniques worked and though there is no doubt at all that we 14:47 can if we want to carry them much further than was possible in the past 14:54 and of course in the history of recent history of brainwashing both has applied 15:02 to prisoners of war and to the lower 15:08 personnel within the Communist Party in China we see that the Pavlovian methods 15:15 have been applied systematically and we with evidently with extraordinary efficacy I mean I think there can be no 15:22 doubt that by the application of these methods a very large army of totally 15:29 devoted people has been created at the the conditioning has been driven in so 15:36 to say by kind of psychological iontophoresis into the very depth of the 15:44 people's being and has got so deep that it's very difficult for it ever to be 15:50 rooted out and these methods I I think are a real refinement on the older 15:59 methods of terror because they combine methods of Terror with methods of 16:05 acceptance method that the person who he is subjected to a form of terroristic 16:12 stress about you for the purpose of inducing a kind of voluntary quotes 16:20 acceptance of the state and the psychological state into which he has 16:26 been driven and the state of affairs within which he finds himself and so 16:31 that as I say that has been I think a definite improvement shall we say in the 16:37 evening the techniques of terrorism well then we come to the consideration of 16:44 other techniques of non terroristic techniques for inducing consent and for inducing 16:52 people to love their servitude here I 16:57 mean I think we can I don't think I can possibly go into all of them because I don't know all of them but I mean I can 17:03 mention a few of the more obvious methods which can now be used and which 17:11 are based upon recent scientific findings first of all how the methods 17:20 connected with straight suggestion and and hypnosis I think we know much more 17:26 about this subject and was was known in the past people cause have always known 17:32 about suggestion and although they didn't know the word hypnosis they 17:37 certainly practiced it in various ways but we have I think a much greater 17:44 knowledge of the other subject and in the past and we we can make use of our 17:50 knowledge in ways which I think the past was probably never able to make you so 17:55 maybe use of it for example one of the things we have we now know for certain 18:02 is that there is of course an enormous I mean this has been always known a very 18:08 great difference between individuals in regard to their suggestibility but we 18:14 now I think know pretty clearly the sort of statistical or structure of a 18:20 population in regard to its to its suggestibility yeah it's very 18:26 interesting when you look at the the findings in different fields I mean in the field of hypnosis in the field of 18:34 administering placebos for example in the field of general suggestion in 18:42 states of drowsiness or of light sleep you will find the same sorts of orders 18:47 of magnitude continually cropping up you will find for example that the 18:53 experience the hypnotist will tell one that the number of people the percentage 18:59 of people can be hypnotized with the utmost facility just like that is about 20 20 19:06 percent that about a corresponding number at the other end of the scale a very very difficult or almost impossible 19:13 to hypnotize and that in between there lies the large mass of people who can 19:20 with more or less difficulty be hypnotized that they can gradually be if 19:30 you work hard enough at it be be got into the hypnotic state and in the same 19:36 way when the same sort of figures crop up again for example in relation to the 19:41 administration of placebos of the big experiment was carried out three or four 19:46 years ago in the General Hospital in Boston on post-operative cases were 19:53 several hundred men and women suffering comparable kinds of pain after serious 20:00 operations were allowed to were given injections whenever they asked for them 20:08 whenever the pain got bad and the injections 50% of the time were of morphine 50% of the time were of 20:14 distilled water and about 20% of the of those who went through the experiment 20:22 about 20% of them got just as much relief from the distilled waters from the more cure about 20% got no relief 20:30 from the distilled water and in between were those who got some relief or got relief occasionally so here again we see 20:38 the same sort of of distribution and similarly with regard to what in brave 20:46 new world I called hypnopaedia over to the sleep teaching I was talking not 20:52 long ago to a man who manufactures the records which people can listen to in a 20:58 in during the light part of sleep I mean he's a records for for getting rich for 21:05 sexual satisfaction confidence in salesmanship and so on and 21:13 he said it's very interesting that he he 21:18 these are drug records are sold on a money-back basis and he says that there is regularly between 15 and 20% of 21:26 people who write indignantly saying the records don't work at all and he sends the money back at once 21:32 there on the other hand there are somewhat over 20 percent who write enthusiastically saying they're now much 21:39 richer their sexual life is much better at cetera certainly and these of course are the dream clients and they buy more 21:46 of these records and then in between are those who complain they're not getting much results and they have to be have 21:53 letters written to them saying what go persist Nydia go on and you will get there and they generally they generally do get 22:02 results in the long run well as I say this on the basis of this I think we see 22:08 quite clearly that the human populations can be categorized according to their 22:14 suggestibility but fairly clearly I I suspect very strongly that this 20% is 22:20 the same in all these these cases and I suspect also that it would not be at all 22:27 difficult to recognize in very early childhood who were those who were 22:33 extremely suggestible who were those were extremely I'm suggesting and who are those who occupy the intermediate 22:42 space quite clearly if everybody were extremely unstable organized society 22:49 would be quite impossible and if everybody were extremely suggestible then dictatorship would be absolutely 22:59 inevitable I mean it's very fortunate we have people who are moderately suggestible in the majority and who 23:05 therefore preserve us from dictatorship but to commit to organized society to to 23:12 be formed but once given the fact that there are these 20% of highly 23:18 suggestible people it becomes quite clear that this is a matter of enormous political importance 23:23 for example any demagogue who is able to get hold of a large 23:30 number of these 20% of suggestible people and to organize them is really in 23:36 a position to overthrow any government of in any country and I mean I I think this after all we've had the most 23:43 incredible example in recent years of what can be done by efficient methods of 23:51 suggestion and persuasion in the form of Hitler anybody who's read for example 23:58 bollocks life of Hitler comes forth from this with a sort of horrified him a 24:06 admiration for this infernal genius who who really understood human weaknesses I 24:12 think almost better than anybody and who exploited them with all the resources 24:17 then available I mean he knew everything I mean for example he knew intuitively this Pavlovian truth that conditioning 24:27 installed in a state of stress or fatigue it goes much deeper than conditioning installed at other times 24:33 this was why all his big speeches were organized at night he speaks it is quite 24:40 frankly of course in my country so this was done solely because people are tired at night and therefore a much less 24:47 capable of resisting persuasion and they would be during the day and they was in 24:53 all his techniques he'll he was using those he had discovered intuitively and 25:01 by trial and error great many of the of the weaknesses which we now know about 25:09 on a sort of scientific way I think much more clearly than he does than he did 25:14 but the fact remains that this differential suggestibility this 25:21 susceptibility to hypnosis I do think has is something which has to be 25:26 considered very carefully in relation to any kind of 25:32 thought about democratic government I mean if there are 20% of the people who 25:40 can really be suggested into believing almost anything as evidently there can 25:45 be then we have to take extremely careful steps to prevent the rise of 25:53 demagogues who will drive them all into extreme positions and then organize them 26:00 into very very dangerous armies private armies which may overthrow the overthrow 26:08 the government whether this as I say is in this field of pure persuasion I think 26:16 we do know much more than we did in the past and obviously we now have 26:22 mechanisms for multiplying the demagogues voice and image you know 26:28 quite hallucinatory way I mean the television and the radio Hitler was making enormous use of the 26:35 radio he could speak to millions of people simultaneously I mean this this 26:42 alone of course is a creates an enormous gulf between the modern and the ancient 26:48 demagogue am the ancient demagogue could only appeal to as many people as his 26:53 voice could reach by the yelling at it that is Atmos but were the modern 26:59 demagogue can touch literally millions at a time and and of course with his the 27:04 multiplication of his image he can produce this kind of hallucinatory effect which is of enormous hypnotic and 27:17 to suggest suggestive importance well then there were the various other 27:23 methods which one can think of which have thank heaven as yet not being used 27:30 but which obviously could be used there is for example the pharmacological method this this was one of the things I 27:38 talked about in brave new world I invented a hypothetical drug called 27:44 soma which of course could not exist as it stood there because it was simultaneously a stimulant a narcotic 27:52 and a hallucinogen which seems unlikely in one substance but the point is that 27:57 we're in several if you applied several different substances you could get 28:02 almost all these results even now and the really interesting thing about the 28:07 new chemical substances the new mind changing drugs is this that whereas if 28:13 you look back into history it's clear that man has always had a hankering 28:19 after mind changing chemicals he has always desired to take holidays 28:25 from himself but the and this is the most extraordinary fact of all is that 28:31 every naturally occurring stimulant narcotic sedative or hallucinogen was 28:39 discovered in before the dawn of history I don't think there's one single one of 28:45 these naturally occurring ones which modern science has discovered modern 28:50 science of course has discovered better ways of extracting the active principles from these drugs and of course has 28:57 discovered numerous ways of synthesizing new substances of extreme power but the 29:03 ad the actual discovery of these naturally occurring things was made by 29:09 primitive man goodness knows how many centuries ago there is for example in 29:14 the underneath the swirl Lake dwellings 29:20 of the early Neolithic and Linda Glick dwellings which have been dug up in the 29:26 in Switzerland where we find poppy heads which looks as though people were 29:32 already using this most ancient and powerful and most dangerous of narcotics 29:40 even in the days before the rise of Agriculture so that man was apparently a 29:46 dope a ik @ ik before he was a farmer which is a a very very curious comment on human 29:53 nature but the difference as I say between the ancient man change as the 30:00 traditional nine changers and these new substances is that they were extremely 30:05 harmful and the new ones are not I mean even the permissible nine change alcohol 30:15 is not entirely harmless as people may have noticed and the the other ones the 30:22 non permissible one such as opium and cocaine opium and all its derivatives are very harmful indeed that they they 30:30 rapidly produce addiction under and in some cases bleeded with an extraordinary 30:36 rate to a physical degeneration and death whereas these these new substances 30:45 this is really very extraordinary they that a number of these new mind training 30:50 substances can produce enormous revolutions within the mental side of 30:56 our being and yet do almost nothing to the physiological side I mean you can 31:03 have a an enormous room revolution for example with LSD 25 or with the newly 31:12 synthesized drug psilocybin which is the active principle of the Mexican sacred 31:18 mushroom you can have this enormous mental revolution with no more 31:23 physiological revolution and you would get from drinking to cocktails and this 31:29 is a really a most extraordinary effect and it is of course true that the 31:35 pharmacologist are producing a great many wonder drugs which where the cure 31:41 is almost worse than the disease every year new edition of medical textbooks 31:48 contains a longer and longer chapter on what are called iatrogenic disease is 31:53 that is a disease is caused by doctors and 31:59 the and this is quite true that many of the wounded drugs are extremely 32:06 dangerous I mean they they can produce extraordinary effects and pains critical 32:11 conditions they should certainly be used but they should be used with the utmost caution but they're they're either 32:18 evidently a whole class of drugs affecting the central nervous system which can produce enormous changes in in 32:29 sedation in euphoria in energizing the 32:34 whole mental process without in doing any perceptible harm to the body and in 32:41 this sense this represents it seems to me the most extraordinary revolution 32:47 that it eats it in the hands of a verdict a toll these substances of one 32:56 kind or another could be used in the most term where we've complete first of 33:04 all with with complete harmlessness and the result would be either - I mean you 33:12 can imagine a euphoric which would make people thoroughly happy even in the most 33:18 abominable circumstances I mean these things are possible and this is the extraordinary thing I mean after all 33:25 this is even being true with your crude oil drugs me as a Houseman years ago 33:31 remarked apropos of Milton's Paradise Lost he says a and B R does more than 33:38 Milton can to justify God's ways to man and Pierre is of course an extremely 33:46 crude drug compared with these worms and you can certainly say that some of the 33:53 psychic Energizer's and the new hallucinates can do in comparably more than a Milton and all the theologians 34:01 combined could possibly do to make the terrifying mystery of our existence seem 34:07 more tolerable than it does so that here I think one has a an enormous area in 34:16 which the the ultimate revolution could function very well indeed an area in 34:22 which a great deal of control could be used but by not through terror but 34:28 through making life seem much more enjoyable and it normally does enjoyable to the point where as I have said before 34:34 human beings come to love a state of things which by any reasonable and 34:40 decent human standard they ought not to love and this I think is perfectly 34:45 possible well then I very briefly let me speak about one of the more recent 34:53 developments of in the sphere of of 34:58 neurology the the implantation of electrodes in the brain this of course 35:03 has been done on a large scale in in animals and in in a few cases it's been 35:11 done in a hopeless in cases of the hopelessly insane and it is anybody 35:19 who's watched the behavior of rats with the electrodes planted in different 35:26 centers who must come away from this 35:32 experience with the most extraordinary doubts about what on earth is in store 35:37 for us if he ever this he's got hold of by a dictator if the who ever saw not 35:46 long ago some rats in magoons laboratory at UCLA 35:51 there were two sets of them one with electrodes planted in a pleasure center 35:57 and these rats were these technique was that they had a bar which they pressed 36:03 and which turned on a very small current for a short space of time which we had a 36:12 wire connected with their electrode and which stimulated this pleasure center 36:18 which was evidently absolutely ecstatic was these rats were were pressing the bar eighteen thousand times a day 36:27 apparently if you kept them from pressing the bar for a day they would press the bar 36 thousand times on the 36:33 following day and would fall till they fell down in complete exhaustion and they would neither eat nor be interested 36:40 in the the opposite sex and would just go on pressing despair then the most 36:46 extraordinary rats were those where the electrode was planted halfway between a pleasure and a pain center and we're 36:53 evidently the the result was a kind of mixture of the most wonderful ecstasy in 37:01 being on the rack at the same time and you would see the routes of looking at its barns I'm saying to be or not to be 37:08 that is the question finally would approaching there 37:15 go back with his awful I mean the if I can 37:22 humanize anthropomorphize I mean he was feeling something terribly mixed and he 37:27 would wait for quite a long time before pressing the bar again but he would always press it again this was the the 37:34 extraordinary thing in there in the I notice in this most recent issue of Scientific American does a very 37:40 interesting article on electrodes in the brains of chickens where the the 37:46 technique is very ingenious you sink into their brains a little socket 37:52 whether with a screw on it I knew the electrode then can be a screw deeper and 37:57 deeper into the brainstem and you can test at any moment according to the 38:02 depth of the goes in fractions of a millimeter of what you're stimulating and and these creatures are not merely 38:11 stimulated by wire they are fitted with a miniaturized radio receiver weighing 38:17 less than an ounce which is attached to them so that they can be communicated with at a distance I mean they can run 38:24 about in the barnyard and you can press the button and the this particular area 38:30 of the brain to which the electrodes being screwed down to will be stimulated and you will get these fantastic 38:36 phenomena that a sleepy chicken will suddenly get out and rush about or an 38:43 active chicken was suddenly sit down go to sleep or a hen will suddenly start sitting as though it were were hatching 38:50 out an egg or a rooster will start fighting or suddenly go into a state of extreme depression the the whole picture 39:01 of the absolute control of the drives is a is terrifying and in the cases a few 39:11 cases in which this has been done with very sick human beings the effects are 39:16 evidently very remarkable - I was talking last summer - in England to gray 39:22 Walter who is the most eminent exponent of the electroencephalogram 39:29 geeks in England and he was telling me that they he's seen hopeless inmates of 39:35 asylums with these things in in their heads and that these people were suffering from the uncontrollable 39:41 depression and they were they'd had the electrodes inserted into something 39:48 resembling evidently the pleasure center of the red anyhow when they felt too bad 39:53 they just press the button the battery in their pocket and he said the result was fantastic the mouse was well down 40:00 will suddenly turn up and they would evidently feel I don't for how long at a 40:05 time very cheerful and happy so that here again one sees it the most 40:13 extraordinary revolutionary techniques which are now available to us now the I 40:24 think what is obviously perfectly clear 40:30 is that for the present these techniques are not being much used except in a 40:37 purely experimental way but I think it is extraordinarily important for us to 40:43 realize further - to realize what is happening to make ourselves acquainted 40:50 with what has already happened and then to use a certain amount of projec 40:58 imagination to extrapolate into the future the sort of things that might 41:03 happen I mean what might happen if if these fantastically powerful techniques 41:11 were used by unscrupulous people in authority what on earth would would 41:17 happen what sort of society would we get and it is peculiarly important because 41:27 as one season looking back over history we have allowed in the past all those 41:32 advances in technology which have profoundly changed a social in 41:38 individual life we allowed them to take us by surprise I mean it seems to me that during the late 41:45 18th century early 19th century when the new machines were making possible the 41:50 factory system it was not beyond the wit of man to see what the ger to look at 41:57 what was happening and to project into the future and maybe till forestall the 42:02 really dreadful consequences which plagued England and most of Western 42:08 Europe in most of this country for about 50 or 60 years the the horrible abuses 42:13 of the factory system if a certain amount of forethought had been devoted 42:19 to the problem at that time if people had first of all found out what was 42:24 happening and then used their imagination to see what might happen and then had gone on to work out means by 42:32 which the worst applications of the new techniques would not take place then I 42:38 think Western humanity might have been spared about three generations of utter 42:45 misery which was imposed upon the poor at that time and similarly with the 42:51 various technological advances now I mean it's quite clear we have to start thinking very very hard about the 42:58 problems of automation and again I think we have to think still more profoundly 43:05 about the problems which may arise in relation to these new techniques which 43:10 may contribute to the this ultimate revolution our businesses - first of all 43:17 eyes as I say - to be aware of what is happening then to use our imaginations to see what might happen how this might 43:24 be abused and then if possible to see the enormous powers which we now possess 43:31 thanks to these scientific and technological advances I shall be used 43:37 for the benefit of human beings and not for their ultimate degradation thank you 44:10 we do have a few moments that I'm bish I have talked much too long it's quite a violent is that reef discussion and 44:17 those of you who are interested in staying listening I hear that we well worthwhile John's to post like you well 44:25 I afraid my question shows a certain optimism which may not be justified in a 44:32 way your quote from Houseman that Malta's more than Milton can justify graduates to man indicates that my 44:39 remarks may show that I'm looking in the pewter pot to see the world as the world is not any rate i I'm a bit worried 44:47 about your picture or the picture you paint that the future may contain a 44:53 number of monolithic scientific dictatorships that there may be a groundswell in the stick in this 45:00 direction of the groundswell caused by a human tendency to seek pleasure where it 45:08 can be found but I'm struck by the fact that movements of that sort always far 45:13 more complex than any of our attempts at characterizing them and I think that 45:19 perhaps in this complexity is lies a ray of hope that the future may not contain 45:25 such monolithic scientific dictatorships and that the developments which we can 45:31 expect in light of the various technological achievements you mentioned 45:37 may not lead in the direction of scientific dictatorships in the way you 45:42 indicate that this may depend to a great extent upon the nature or the 45:47 characteristics of the nations in which these results are first introduced in 45:53 other words my question really is when you project into the future and you say 45:59 the chances are very great of dictatorships of this kind of current could you qualify a bit more what the 46:07 chances are well I I say these I don't think the chances are very great I think they are 46:13 there and I would think that one of the reasons why we may get more 46:18 dictatorships than we like lies in quite 46:23 a different field I mean with the with large parts of the world increasing at three percent per annum and in the 46:29 population goodness knows what is going to happen I mean for example I was in 46:36 India last autumn metrical sleep this is 46:41 unutterably depressing the in enormous poverty and the the depression grew a 46:47 great deal with the announcement just when we were there that the United 46:53 Nations had come to the conclusion that its earlier estimates of the increase of Indian population were very much too low 47:01 the estimates had been in the neighborhood of 1.7 percent per annum which is about the same as the United 47:07 States which had to be corrected up to 2.2 or 2.3 which I think doubles the 47:15 population in about 32 years and of course there are large parts of the world where the increase is fully three 47:22 percent and in certain parts of the world even four percent I mean three percent doubles the population in twenty 47:27 four years and four percent I forgetting about sixteen I think but it seems to me 47:34 that the the danger in regard to dictatorship arises with thee as the 47:42 population presses more heavily upon resources and as the rising tide of 47:48 expectation which certainly exists in these underdeveloped countries erica is prostrate it as a arm doubtedly it is 47:56 going to be because it is almost impossible to make any development which 48:01 shall catch up with much less go faster than the than the population increase so 48:08 we may get a great deal of social unrest and course social unrest bleeds first a 48:13 chaos and then the dictatorship I mean I think that the the prospect of some kind 48:19 of dictatorship either military or communistic I think in most cases more likely military 48:24 it seems to me very great within the next 15 to 20 years and whether some of 48:31 these dictatorships may make use of these modern methods it remains to be seen but I think that unhappily the 48:40 prospects for dictatorships in large areas of the world seem to me very great 48:46 at the moment I think there is a considerable likelihood of this thing happening we ought to be apprehensive 48:58 these techniques fall into the hands of dictatorships demagogues etc but I could 49:04 easily envisage a situation where Western democracies could use these 49:10 methods such as electrodes attached to the brain of sack area of the set in 49:17 order to avoid accidental war this could be a very moral term or that give some 49:26 what to be discontented minority of the population who are suffering for Allah 49:32 and only etc would you care to comment about the use of the mark the use of 49:38 these techniques by democracy by Democrats well you're looking or pessimistic saying I am but maybe your 49:47 pessimism is justified I I don't I mean this is the the awful fact remains that 49:55 when techniques have been discovered sooner or later they tend to be applied and in these techniques which where the 50:07 object of the application is the human being you're obviously up against the 50:13 most dangerous situation and and what will be the temptation for those in 50:21 power I mean after all we pray regularly not to be led into temptation and this 50:26 is a really profound and important prayer I mean you experienced sadly 50:31 shows that if we are tempted long enough and strongly enough we invariably succumb and that the the 50:39 whole process of setting up a decent society is essentially setting up the 50:45 society in which temptations to abuse power and shall be reduced to a minimum 50:51 a better these new techniques I I think do constitute a series of very powerful 51:01 temptations which to those in authority maybe to finally turn out to be 51:07 irresistible I hope not but I think what you say is something which we have to 51:15 think about I mean that this might be 51:20 applied with justification as you say in the highest patriotic and moral terms 51:27 even in democratic societies I trust not but but one never knows particularly 51:34 under conditions of extreme military stress it would appear so that the type 51:41 of dictatorship which you have outlined for us here today and more detail in the 51:47 brave new world the would tend to be self-perpetuating unless there's a rise such a sharp 51:52 social crisis as would disrupt the pattern of authority and briefly the hold which is being passed on from one 51:58 generation to the other in these times but it would appear that the type of social crisis involved in large-scale 52:04 warfare whether it be nuclear warfare otherwise more the type of crisis involved in a widespread famine etc I 52:11 would tend to disrupt this pattern of dictatorship therefore would you say there's necessary to have a high degree 52:17 of social stability in terms of economic conditions in terms of world peace before a dictatorship of the sort you 52:24 have described for us we'll be able to really imprinted self upon Epocrates I think is very important I mean I think 52:30 it's it it's obvious that such a dictatorship which we're going to survive would have to guarantee the 52:36 adequate food supplies I mean I think and whether it could in fact to 52:44 is wildly the kind of international tensions whether it could whether we can 52:51 expect a long-lasting dictatorship within the context of nationalism I 52:58 don't know I don't think so I think we can expect tech dictatorships to arise 53:03 but not long-lasting ones I mean I think that even the best organized dictatorship within the context of 53:11 nationalism is likely as you say to lead to to break itself down because one side 53:19 of the paranoid state of mind who will lead it into conflict and which will 53:27 cause destroy to finally destroy it I mean this is a is a very important point 53:33 and then of course another point which was made by Sir Charles Darwin in his book the next million years which i 53:40 think was one would sure with a in different terms I envisaged in brave new 53:45 world I mean here he points out that the human species is still a wild species it 53:52 has never been domesticated I mean domesticated species is one which has been tamed by another species well until 54:01 we get an invasion from Mars we shall not be tamed by another species all we can do is to try to tame 54:07 ourselves that an oligarchy tries to tame ourselves but the oligarchy still remains wild I mean however much it 54:13 succeeded in taming the domesticating the rest of the race it remit must remain well and this was the part of the 54:21 fable the dramatic part of the fable of brave new world is that the people in 54:27 the utter hierarchy who were not ruthlessly conditioned but could break 54:33 down and I mean this Charles Darwin insists that because man is wild he can 54:40 never expect to to domesticate himself because the people on top would always 54:46 be undomesticated in sooner or later always run wild I I think there's a good 54:52 deal to be said for this this part of you in regard to the permanence of any 54:58 dictatorship yes I have a question 55:04 worried about a relationship that seems to exist between cost consent and 55:10 control if a government wants to control its people of course this job will be 55:15 easier if they are more willing to consent and the job will be correspondingly more costly if the 55:22 corresponding consent isn't there could you make a few remarks about the economic feasibility of introducing 55:29 biological controls of the sort to Port Authority I don't know I mean wouldn't 55:34 it I would have thought in some ways it'll be cheaper than maintaining very large security forces and concentration 55:41 camps and so the - I mean just as in asylums chemical control is a great deal 55:50 of simpler and cheaper than physical control I mean the the bad old days of straight jackets and manacles and so on 55:59 required quite a lot of of people to 56:05 handle the insane whereas the tranquilizers seem to require a lot much 56:11 fewer I mean that you can you can get equal results with simpler and certainly 56:22 pleasanter means I have no idea about the the actual cost situation but it 56:28 seems to me that it might actually be cheaper I don't know well I see that 56:34 some of you are leaving for your four o'clock classes I will give you an opportunity to leave now if mr. Huxley 56:41 will be willing we might be able to entertain some questions from the floor for a few moments would you sir certainly yes how were those of you who 56:48 are obliged to leave now please I apologize haven't gone on so long 56:54 partner surely must refer to here he discussed his question whatever might be able to show up she's not sound negative 57:04 when it's getting a little warm isn't it that seems be a windowless hole 57:12 as part of the conditioning process 57:19 is that any musical vegetation in this hole ic1 no they're the next Tuesday I 57:31 do 57:38 I think there is relating information ever since 57:58 with the new broken scene no they were mainly discussing I mean it was a lot 58:04 about you probably with bringing technology to the underdeveloped countries a lot people from the United 58:12 Nations they're very able man Vietnamese called boob anti charming man he was a 58:24 spoke English well strong French sex because he learned his economics and Paris and he was very interesting I mean 58:33 he said I'm speaking to you like a rat with electrodes in my brain 58:39 because I speak from the inside I'm not one of the experimenters on the outside and he was he was very interesting about 58:46 it o mind about the trouble difficulty that when you do introduce say one area 58:52 of highly evolved technique it one of these backward countries you create an 58:58 enormous gap between the people who run this thing a profit by it and the mass 59:03 of the population I mean a gap which is as serious as the gap between the 59:09 have-nots and and the developed nations as a whole and those who under halves 59:14 and they developed and say what he was saying is you must have a an adaptation 59:21 of technique which shall be suitable to these people and not try to bring in what you have already because their 59:27 little work has been done in this field and there were a number of I mean there were several very able people Richard 59:33 called at the University of Edinburgh and Arthur Goldschmidt - receipt director of 59:40 a special services in their United Nations we had some extremely good talks 59:49 but I have one question here which is 59:55 well this is essentially the question which mr. actually addressed himself to in his last statements that how all 1:00:02 control of the techniques been transmitted from one group to another apparently he found out to the 1:00:08 controllers techniques be transmitted from one elite one generation or lead to 1:00:14 another would you wish to comment further on this question and it would just speak to it just before well I 1:00:22 don't think so I mean I I do think there will clearly be a difficulty I mean that there is always a difficulty in 1:00:29 transferring power I mean after all the hence the Constitution's written 1:00:37 constitutions of the United States or hereditary monarchy which in which you've got de-facto power being de jure 1:00:47 in the the possibility of passing power on without much hitch from one 1:00:54 generation to another it may be that in a thoroughly well controlled dictatorships the problem of power at 1:01:00 the top the struggle for power would not take place but he even there I mean simply because again because the the 1:01:07 oligarchy is itself not subjected to the extremes of conditioning because it must 1:01:13 retain a certain freedom in order to to be able to make adequate decisions that 1:01:20 that may be the struggle for power would always remain a great problem as it has been throughout history except where you 1:01:28 have had written constitutions or acceptable monarchies 1:01:36 yes here could you comment on you that it's precisely the American society 1:01:46 particularly susceptible this type of Raven row the following reason that all 1:01:52 societies condition to adhere great degree of social conformity but in your 1:02:00 creative stress this idea of conformity further question and consequently makes 1:02:07 it much easier to develop these techniques and this is how it seems it politically the extremities there's a 1:02:14 growing feeling that we have to do away with the extremities they have to keep on going to several paths and this would 1:02:19 seem to me to make it much easier for a type of dictatorship he said to slow 1:02:26 them using the mass media that we're development mold of population plus the factor that some of the other 1:02:33 outside societies you have less inhibition about the brutal struggle for 1:02:39 power within the top hierarchies whereas here would be some type of a 1:02:44 so-called legal process that has developed which would keep man from then finally attacking the leaders well it 1:02:55 did this business about conformity 1:03:02 I just don't know it seems a extremely difficult system certainly for me to 1:03:08 judge whether there is a higher degree of conformity here and now than there 1:03:14 has been in other places and in the past I mean I would have thought the the 1:03:22 tendency towards conformity was to some extent offset by the enormous 1:03:29 differentiation of function in modern society I mean that nothing could be 1:03:34 less homogeneous in function than complex modern society when people are 1:03:40 doing extraordinarily different things and although there may be a pressure to 1:03:46 conformity in the in the suburbs or to 1:03:51 speak with home that does seem at considerable pressure to nonconformity 1:03:57 or to differentiation in the functional life of people I mean I have no idea and 1:04:03 to what extent one offsets the other and whether the the conforming drive is 1:04:10 stronger than the the drive towards differentiation I just don't know what 1:04:17 the answer to this I mean they I read about the high degree of conformity and 1:04:24 of course one does see that certainly as compared with the 19th century this society does seem to be more conformist 1:04:31 I mean if one reads the history of the of the utopian colonies which were set 1:04:38 up during the 19th century these this Israeli extravagant I mean it is 1:04:44 inconceivable to think of anything like the Oneida community or Brook farm even 1:04:50 being set up today this would be so outrageous that it 1:04:57 would be impossible to imagine and yet in his Victorian days there was this 1:05:06 freedom to to make experiments of social experiments of the wildest character 1:05:16 again exactly what this mean is exactly though what the significance is for us 1:05:23 and for the future I don't I don't really know I mean I just feel so 1:05:30 incapable of really understanding the the unutterably odd facts of real life I 1:05:38 mean I think once very often us has to accept them there they are and what really they mean I don't know I mean the 1:05:45 abscess is one of the charms of history that it will never really knows what it what it means as a gentleman 1:06:03 Oh 1:06:21 well this I mean is finally related to 1:06:26 the whole mind-body problem I mean what 1:06:32 we still don't know very much about the relation of mind and body I mean I mean 1:06:38 we know clearly that they're related to one another very closely but exactly how 1:06:44 electrochemical events in the central nervous system turn into the G minor 1:06:50 quartet of Mozart we really haven't faintest idea I mean I don't think we have any more ideas and Aquinas or 1:06:58 Aristotle I'm all we can say is as it happens and we do know goodie more about 1:07:03 the nature of the electrical and the chemical events but again what the 1:07:09 bridge is and whether it's enough to say like the neutral monists that the two 1:07:16 aspects the mental and the physical are merely the same thing seeing from different sides again I don't know I 1:07:24 mean even then I mean room or how can the same thing look so profoundly different under something I don't 1:07:31 understand and in relation to the mystical experience I mean clearly that 1:07:38 this is correlated with electrochemical states within the within the central 1:07:47 nervous system and I would be all for studying these states i mean i think it's it's exceeding the importance we 1:07:53 should know about it i mean i can imagine a whole branch of science which 1:07:58 would be called neuro theology or micro 1:08:04 mysticism I mean this sounds funny but 1:08:10 nevertheless it's we have to be able to speak in the same kind of language about 1:08:17 the two of the two aspects of any of these experiences the the neurological 1:08:23 and the subjective and then we I suppose on the philosophical level we have to 1:08:29 make the decision which Henry or William James posed for us I mean he says 1:08:34 perfectly obvious that that a mind is a function of the nervous system but is it 1:08:42 a productive function or is it a transmissive function I mean it does as 1:08:48 Carboni said beginning of the nineteenth century does the brain secrete thought 1:08:55 of the liver secretes bile or is it some kind of valve as as James himself I 1:09:02 think thought and has certainly his barracks are thought through which a preexistent mental element finds access 1:09:12 into the human being I mean they're balanced view was that of course it was it was a kind of reducing thereof which 1:09:18 permitted only those aspects of universal consciousness which were 1:09:25 useful to our survival as animals on the surface of the planet and the social creatures within a society to come 1:09:32 through where I don't know as James says that the the both the points of view are 1:09:38 quite difficult from a philosophical point of view to to justify but the the 1:09:47 transmissive view is no more difficult than the productive view and i perhaps he's right i think of my own view is 1:09:55 that on the hope that he in back saw were nearer the truth and the cabin ease 1:10:00 but i don't know this gentleman watch 1:10:06 out Julian consequence views on artificial 1:10:14 insemination donation but I don't know as I know his views exactly 1:10:25 you can't clarify the embarrassment I think these papers along with a dr. 1:10:31 Hermann Muller the ancestors think that 1:10:39 genetic we can genetically improve the human race by adopting amongst the 1:10:48 population are the practice of artificial insemination using the sperm 1:10:56 of intelligent individuals and I don't know how he determined that these 1:11:02 individuals aren't be chosen but I was just wondering if you were familiar with 1:11:08 well I mean this is it was the whole problem of eugenics I mean if one knew 1:11:15 how to apply eugenic principles I think unquestionably one who could improve the 1:11:21 the average quality of the human race and I mean there is some evidence says 1:11:28 but pointed out a long time ago and as a meadow was pointed out more recently 1:11:35 that there is some evidence that there is a slight decline of average IQ and 1:11:45 that this certainly could be remedied but of course as you say the problem is 1:11:51 to choose who I mean I've one can I can perfectly imagine that if the Cold War 1:11:57 goes on for a very long time that side which first starts artificial 1:12:05 insemination of the production of people with greater talent in the physical sciences will win and I read a paper the 1:12:13 other day by I forget who biologists at University of California at Santa 1:12:18 Barbara maybe it was an amusing paper but I mean it prepared quite interesting 1:12:24 and serious aspects to it on sort of the hypothetical 1:12:30 Cold War action on the part of the 1:12:35 dictatorial powers who were able to make use of eugenics in ways which would not 1:12:42 test this although his name I cannot now remember and where I which were not 1:12:48 necessarily very tyrannical because of the after all the the woman would be 1:12:53 allowed to marry whomever she liked but who provided she had the children by selected two fathers outside the 1:13:03 relationship so that I mean there would be the the actual personal relationships between husband and wife would not be 1:13:08 modified seriously but I mean this as I say was it was a fantasy but he again it 1:13:15 looked like a fantasy which could quite likely come true and who could as the 1:13:22 geneticists I think are all agree II do could certainly lead to considerable results of course on a huge NX to take 1:13:31 place on a in a rapid way you would have to be able to control the and not merely 1:13:38 the male genetic factors but the female which is cause much more difficult but 1:13:44 not impossible I imagine I've one written question here I'd like to read out herself now the population explosion 1:13:51 is a grave danger to mankind yet the right to bear children is a right of free well the only apparent way to stem 1:13:59 this explosion is by some large-scale kind of conditioning or external coercion that this is also a grave 1:14:05 danger is there any way out of this dilemma well the way out of the dilemma shawl is 1:14:12 being pointed out when in most countries of the West where people voluntarily have limited the size of their families 1:14:21 I mean this has happened without any coercion and unless you call the desire to have a good economic life and to 1:14:29 bring up your children well or coercion but I mean this has in fact occurred and 1:14:35 I mean in this country after having reached a low during the Depression the 1:14:42 birth rate happens to have gone out but I mean the point is that they the control of the size of families is now 1:14:49 completely voluntary here I mean or more or less completely voluntary and which 1:14:54 makes it profoundly different from the people in the underdeveloped societies 1:15:01 who are still going on producing ten children because they the habit persists 1:15:08 that in order to for three children survive you have to produce ten but now if you produce ten children seven survey 1:15:15 because of elementary public health precautions which have been brought in 1:15:22 hence of course the the enormous incra sudden increase the the the death rate 1:15:30 which used to be in the upper 30s as was the birth rate has now fallen in many of 1:15:35 these countries to 15 and 12 and even ten so naturally there's an enormous 1:15:40 increase but it's certainly going to 1:15:45 take some time to get people to change 1:15:51 their habits I mean psychological inertia is is much more powerful and 1:15:56 physical inertia was much easier to push a 10-ton truck from a human being mr. 1:16:02 post has one filibuster here you've spoken at the ends to which drugs should not be devoted such as increasing 1:16:10 conformity making men more content with what is actually an intolerable situation securing the power 1:16:16 of a small elite and so on to what ends do you think these drugs should be devoted granted that we happen well I 1:16:25 mean I think the India tickly some of my very very but I think already for 1:16:30 example some of the so-called psychic Energizer's have done a great deal in 1:16:35 the mental field I mean they I understand from doctor Nathan Kline for 1:16:41 example that in very many cases you can use some of these psychic Energizer's 1:16:46 instead of the electric electroshock therapy and people say that electroshock 1:16:54 therapy doesn't do any harm but I cannot believe that partial electrocution is good for anybody 1:17:00 and it seems to me a very good thing that if you you can get people on a 1:17:05 maintenance dose to get them out of these these awful catatonic and 1:17:11 depressed conditions which you seem to be able to do and therefore there are 1:17:16 many people who seems to me outside institutions who who have tendencies in 1:17:22 the same direction which I think a genuine psychic energized I might be 1:17:30 which could be used without harm to people would be of immense value there 1:17:35 was even it was stated to a few years ago I remember thirty Russians had a 1:17:41 five-year plan for increasing mental efficiency biochemical means I don't 1:17:46 know whether this has gone on and what they've discovered but it's I would think it's probably on the cards that 1:17:53 you could increase the span of attention the the amount of time you could 1:17:58 concentrate on things the the power of observation and so on biochemical as 1:18:05 well as by educational means I mean I think that there are a number probably 1:18:11 quite good things you could could and then again in the case of these very 1:18:17 strange substances like psilocybin and lysergic acid I think there is a great 1:18:23 deal to be said for doing what William James talked about of getting people to 1:18:29 realize that the their Ordinaries or common sense view of the world is not 1:18:34 the only view that the University in habit is not the only possible universe 1:18:40 and there are other very strange universes which some people spontaneously inhabit in a man like 1:18:47 William Blake obviously inhabit some extremely different universe from that 1:18:52 which most people inhabit and I I think it's probably very wholesome for people 1:18:58 to to be permitted to realize this fact to perceive that the the world of the 1:19:05 mind is immensely large and that there are these very strange and extraordinary areas in them and and there are plenty 1:19:13 of cases in the literature whether these kind of experiences have produced a kind of conversion the work which was being 1:19:21 done at Harvard now by Leary a prison only local prisons in Boston it's very 1:19:28 interesting a sort of a series of extraordinary conversion experiences 1:19:34 among hardened criminals that have emerged from the isn't here again there 1:19:39 may be I mean we don't know enough about the subject here today there may be 1:19:45 possibilities of very great importance here of removing obstacles I mean the 1:19:54 the justification it was stated by barracks are years ago when he was 1:19:59 defending William James against his use of nitrous oxide our number of fellow 1:20:07 philosophers thought this was infra dig that eminent philosopher should resort 1:20:13 to these chemical means which enabled them in James remark that her only under 1:20:19 nitrous oxide could he understand what ego meant 1:20:27 verax I said the Tobit must be realized that the experiences which mr. James 1:20:34 described are not caused by the gas the 1:20:39 gas is merely the occasion the gases remove certain obstacles which might 1:20:45 have been removed equally well by psychological or psychophysical means so-called spiritual exercises of the 1:20:52 various religions but it can also be removed by these chemical means and that 1:20:59 if you can do so without doing harm to yourself so much the better and incidentally it's one of the 1:21:07 greatest tragedies I think in psychological research that the James I 1:21:14 think about nineteen five made an experiment with peyote and Eddy head of 1:21:21 other weak stomach all that he got was violent vomiting he said I'm afraid I 1:21:27 must take the visions for granted I got only the nausea and it's a it's an awful pity if he'd had a stronger stomach wish 1:21:34 to had this research beginning fifty years ago but his weak stomach prevented 1:21:40 this and we've had to wait too much later to get this thing really going 1:21:45 well before we close the program mr. Delaney Graduate Student Association asked me to 1:21:51 announce that shall be a meeting of the Graduate Student Association next Tuesday at noon now I want to express 1:21:57 our appreciation to mr. Huxley on behalf of all of those who be able lest our augmented knowledge restrict our 1:22:04 understanding thank you very much

I'll keep the whole log one last time, so it can possibly get signed by this poorly kept key, and add to the bottom. On November 13, 2020 5:36:22 AM EST, Karl <gmkarl@gmail.com> wrote:

[OT] [dangerous due the possibility of dangerous people thinking it is an analogy for whatever they're concerned about]

On Wed, Nov 11, 2020, 8:18 AM Karl <gmkarl@gmail.com> wrote:

...

I haven't read the replies I haven't acknowledged, because I'm trying to slow down entering the dissociative state where I post obsessively to the list and do nothing else, and accessing the same threads could trigger it faster.

Here is a webcomic outline. To help with the major motion picture being slowly grown from horrifically enslaved countries to bring their dead beloved dictators back to life as respected community members with badly needed medical care:

Mind Control Boss, the Webcomic, draft 1

#1

panel 1: Setting: Boss's office

Boss: "Somebody mentioned mind control on that mailing list. Let me know when it's cleaned up."

Cleanup Worker (previously Secretary of State, talking honestly, has bloody wires leaving scalp, wears weapons dealer logo on smart looking political outfit): "Of course, Boss! We love you so much for enslaving us to your every whim!"

panel 2: Setting: local coffee shop named "Underground Spy and Rebel Network, Come One Come All"

Specialist (now a cleanup worker for Boss): "The Boss told me to clean this mailing list up. I told him to fuck off, that it's out of his control."

Excited Supporter (at a nearby table of torture victims, rescue workers, and diplomats): "What list now?"

State Worker (wears same weapons dealer logo as Secretary of State, watching, is at table of rebels with Specialist, in role of "way to control and spy on Boss", texting privately on Mobile Phone): [Excited Supporter will b worker who rebels. Can u make sure 2 erase what they look up tonight?]

panel 3: Setting: same coffee shop

Rebel Worker (sitting next to State Worker, wears same shirt, phone dings and looks suddenly at State Worker): "The fuck???" <immediately shoots State Worker dead>

Dead State Worker's Mobile Phone: "Contacting Cleanup. Thank you for using Dictatorsoft."

Specialist (same one, at table): <while phone alarming about cleanup>, "Again????"

#2

panel 1: (torture victim, excited supporter, and/or rebel worker visit mailing list, assume it is super cool, archive it and spread it everywhere)

panel 2: Scene: Former Secretary of State's office

Cleanup Worker (formerly secretary of state, bloody wires leaving neatly combed hair, gesturing at corpse of State Worker, talking to Machine Learning Marketer): "Boss can't see well and needs to hear it from the horse's mouth, and the horse is dead. Could you fix up a video chat for us where the horse is alive?"

Machine Learning Marketer (knows nothing about machine learning, is new to corporation): "Certainly. We do that all the time."

panel 3: Scene: Boss's office, with corpse of State Worker present, propped up as if still alive. Boss is in a hospital bed.

Corpse of State Worker (blurry due to severe issues Boss is having): "Boss, I am your loyal servant. The mailing list has been cleaned up."

#3 Scene: Former Secretary of State's Office

I found a possible early part of #3 in my semipreserved notes (I have to pretend to erase stuff to work on things like this): "We leaked some things helpful to Boss on a rebel mailing list" . I'm not focusing on filling in all the scene and panels for #3 since I already shared it.

...

posts we've been using to share propaganda are predicted to make more rebels than propaganda."

State Worker 2 (hired to replace State Worker after their death, bloody wires leaving scalp): "Don't say that! I might tell the boss!"

Corpse of State Worker: "Very sorry."

#4 Scene: Former Secretary of State's Office

Standing Corpse of State Worker 2 (microelectronics and brains hanging out of scalp, eyes moving wildly and independently of each other): "After being brought back from the dead so many times by Machine Learning Marketer, Boss can no longer learn new information without being killed out of fear of subversion by propaganda. This doesn't seem much like leadership to

...

workers, so we've kind of reinterpreted who the boss really is, and

...

instead to their "spirit" rather than letting them say anything. Machine Learning Marketer has a computer that can report spirit."

Machine Learning Marketer has bloody wires leaving their scalp.

Standing Corpse of State Worker 3 (also has obviously poorly-done bci surgery): "You said you replaced the Boss with a computer simulation?"

State Worker 2: "Yeah, can you kill me until I do it well enough to say straight, for the coffee shop?"

Machine Learning Marketer: <reaches for their own cellphone and breaks it in half. Takes out a gun and empties it into the lights>. "I think

Standing Corpse of State Worker: "I have bad news. The rebel mailing list the listen the

...

simulation just mind controlled me not to."

#5

<we can come up with these forever, and have the next one drafted too, but it is too hard to continue for me to write it right now. it involves describing what it is like to communicate things when your behavior and medical treatment are augmented by machine learning algorithms each made or influenced by a different warring faction trying to manipulate you toward their own particular ends. sorry ran out of steam, got triggered too badly in #4>

[Note re the recent xkcd: there is no coronavirus in this yet. everyone still remembers how to go near others and be friendly and comfortable with that. I'd probably split the coffee shop in two, for people who want to wear masks and people who don't, with full accommodations for both views, and have the characters move between the two areas demonstrating how easy it is to resolve a conflict. Boss's people would generally not wear masks in any office or while harming people, their masks would have been designed to fail, and they would always wear them in public.]

#5 Scene: Boss's Office

Computer Audio of Boss (part of Audiovisual Setup, with Hospital Bed behind it): "This ..." <voice cuts out, the words struggling>

Status Display: "Filling in for memory loss. Defusing anger."

Computer Audio of Boss: "... mailing list ..." <struggling>

Status Display: "Filling in for memory loss. Patient now deeply relaxed."

Computer Audio of Boss: "... is part of my .. " <suddenly stops>

Status Display: "Filling in for memory loss. Numbing severe hopelessness."

Computer Audio of Boss: "... medical plan to ..."

Status Display: "Extensive memory reconstruction requiring delay. Simulation taking over."

Computer Video of Boss: "... heal my ..."

Status Display: "Filling in for memory loss. Numbing severe hopelessness."

Computer Audio of Boss: "... destroyed brain?"

Cleanup Worker (formerly Secretary of State): "Yes, Boss."

Machine Learning Marketer: "We love you so much, we could never let you come to harm."

#6 Scene: Local coffee shop named "Underground Spy and Rebel Network, Come One Come All"

panel 1:

Toddler is staring at Dedicated Cop, who is sitting at the rebel table in conversation, their skull open with brains and microcircuitry hanging out.

Middle Kid (off-panel): "Toddler, whatcha staring at?"

panel 2:

Middle Kid (in severe terror): <shrieks loudly! everybody looks at her> "Mommy that man's brains are falling out! Call 911!"

Mother Supporter: "Shush!" <glances at Dedicated Cop, who has brains hanging out> "That man is fine. Why are you acting out like this?"

Middle Kid: <stares at mother, astonished, confused, terrified>

Older Kid: "The man is fine. Don't be such a baby."

Toddler pokes playfully at their own head in the same spot as the opening to Dedicated Cop's skull, acting out having a friendly discussion while your brains are falling out.

panel 3:

Rebel Worker 2 (sitting across from Dedicated Cop, to Middle Kid as she walks by to return to her family): <hushed> "What you saw was real, but for now if you tell the wrong person, you'll get hospitalized yourself. That's going to change. You can find me and my friends at this coffee shop. Tell your mother I told you to listen to her."

#7

panel 1:

The rebel table has Cautious Cop and Dedicated Cop (with brains hanging out) in discussion with Rebel Worker 2 and Corpse of State Worker 3 both across the table. Specialist is sitting nearby.

Rebel Worker 2: "Thanks so much for coming to speak with us and being willing to listen. I know these are very serious accusations for Well-Respected Psionic Weaponry Corp to lay against Poor Abused Dictator Megacorp, but this is very real human trafficking and rights abuse."

Corpse of State Worker 3 (looking almost alive, bci surgery carefully hidden now, acting very formal): "Rebel Worker 2 has been advising me from Well-Respected Psionic Weaponry Corp, for some time now. Rebel Worker 2 was introduced to me as having held their management role at Well-Respected Psionic Weaponry Corp for over a decade."

panel 2:

Dedicated Cop (blood flies from their brain a little as they turn their head): "We'll need the full names of the perpetrator and the accuser for the charges."

Rebel Worker 2: "I'm Rebel Worker 2, here's my ID, this is State Worker 3, and I have a recording of Torture Victim Double Agent, an employee of Poor Abused Dictator Megacorp, discussing this with Trusting Coworker, while in the act."

panel 3:

Cautious Cop: "We'll collect information and be sure to follow up. You said you're accusing Poor Abused Dictator Megacorp, not Well-Respected" <coughs> "Psionic Weaponry Corp?"

Rebel Worker 2: <pauses, briefly confused> "Yes. Poor Abused Dictator Megacorp is engaging in human trafficking and rights abuse, and we have proof."

Specialist: "Sorry to butt in, but I've actually been tracking some attacks on automl systems being developed for human rights, and it's pretty clear the attacks stemmed from the people you're talking about. I would love to testify to this."

#8:

panel 1: (Middle Kid goes to the bathroom and finds Specialist laying on the floor. Rebel Worker 2 enters, eyes glazed over.)

Rebel Worker 2 (looking at Middle Kid): "Who are you?"

Middle Kid: "Don't you recognise ..." <Rebel Worker 2 brushes by her, ignoring her, and she hides>

panel 2 (multiple panels):

Rebel Worker 2 takes some things (microcircuitry and a small saw) from inside the flap of the trash, quickly opens the skull of Specialist and places something inside, returns the things, and leaves with Specialist's skull still open. Specialist begins stirring.

panel 3 (back near the rescue table):

Middle Kid (returning to Mother Supporter): "Mommy, you know how you mentioned the lock on my door, something about bad men, and asked if I wanted to be in charge of the key? I would like that."

Mother Supporter: "I'll take it out and give it to you when we get home. We can even install a second lock if you want. Let's go outside and talk, shall we?"

...

I made 3ish more of this on other threads in the list. They were made very near each other. One involved a peace pagoda. Another involved victims of extreme nonconsensual research visiting a cafe. Another involved Boss's tongue hanging out, with X's for eyes. The had tags attached regarding dangerousness, a controversial thing. I also posted some of my other drafts, not sure if it was in this thread or not. One of those involved a welcome sign to a utopic community that said "WE ARE MIND CONTROLLED AND NEED A BREAK". There were others. Here's some more. Near the idea of "spirit mercenary", which helps to refine the trope of advanced artificial intelligence, combat-for-pay, and spiritual fantasy, all of which overlap in the real world, continuously avoiding the concept of secret automated mind control, which there is no need to do. -- [draft] "America's Top Comedy": An ordinary person won the contest, and is going on on-stage to give their material. The studio is a public entertainment venue in a large city, with crowds waiting with baited breath. The biggest joke is the people who laugh at their own horrible jokes. The hopeful-jokestar steps up to the microphone, opens their mouth, and freezes. Nothing is said. Nobody is moving a muscle, and the cameras are rolling. A man walks up from the crowd and on to the stage. They have wires and microchips draped out of their opened skull and exposed brain, and one of their fore-arms and hands has been replaced by some strong device, affixed to infected flesh via open wounds. One of their eyes is covered by a mechanism of some sort with a light on it. Bool drips from them as they walk, pooling on the carpet and likely staining it, and then apparently disappearing somehow on its own. [the crowd see the bloodstains disappear because they have experienced automated hypnosis. the cameras record it disappearing because they have been hacked.] The cyborg walks up next to the budding comedian, and faces the crowd and the cameras: "This man is trying to tell you a joke about mind control." People in the crowd start moving just a little. The cyborg looks at the comedian, then back at the cameras and crowd. A whirring noise and motion comes from the device attached to his wounded arm. "It's my job to kill him before he does." Tension rises. A little motion at the emergency exit. "But I'd rather we tell a joke that results in people in the crowd taking a picture of me, and people in their homes watching this feed, archiving the video." A couple crowds of people get up, to go to the bathroom, squeezing their knees together, holding their crotches; others quickly grab and hold them and prevent them from leaving, and help them take their cellphones out. Some wet themselves. Some relax. Some do both. "The reason nobody is talking, or calling 911 about my wounds, is because I am a mind control cleanup worker." The man's injuries and hardware are all visible, but the pooled blood on the floor turns to clean carpet. "My whole life, I have been forced to cover up the crimes of wealthy and powerful criminals, and hide this." The comedian begins laughing wildly. Many in the crowd do, too. Some and also the comedian occasionally yell "please take a picture of him, the cameras don't work!" amidst bursts of forced laughter. Some hear this in their homes. The assassin walks up to the microphone and says loudly, "IT'S DISGUSTING THAT PEOPLE ARE FORCED TO LAUGH AT THIS SHIT AND PRETEND IT IS NORMAL. WE NEED URGENT MEDICAL ATTENTION AND RESEARCH." The cameras and lights blip off. At home, people's devices report internet connectivity failure. The assassin's voice echoes in the darkness, coming out of people's offline devices. "I can protect people who can protect me. And researchers and rescue workers who can work on and talk about this shit."

On Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 7:25 PM Karl <gmkarl@gmail.com> wrote:

The jokes and stories are apparently analogies regarding my own personal brainwashing experience, with all the parts replaced. Maybe they mean other things too.

...

Here's another:

Boss has been mind controlled by vivisected

by vivisected I meant the experimentees

(so, this is before he dies), and is cleaning things up. But all boss's behaviors are miswired, just like the vivisected were all their lives, building this miswiring being the only thing they understood how to do.

So, when cleaning things up, boss does stuff that is either similar to past cleanup behaviors, or has similarity to the presence of cleaning up in culture (from dictatorsoft's database), but does not actually cover anything up at all, rather spreads it all over in ways that make it shoved in everyone's faces.

Boss gets janitor broom and starts sweeping dead body down street. Later, boss sees video of himself doing this on television at store. "This is bad for business," boss says to the fruit vendor at the grocery store, pointing at the video, "what can we do about it?" "I'm not your neurosurgeon, mr. I'm a fruit vendor," the fruit vendor replies. Unfortunately, in boss's public language of covering up crimes, this means that the fruit vendor is, indeed, the mind control manager boss is expecting, and is simply introducing the topic in a way that is reliable. Why else

by reliable I meant deniable

would they mention neurosurgery?

It is because boss is the laughing clown now and stories have been spreading, I plan to tone that down so it is a little less severe, maybe by adding a confused public relations worker or something

--

I've been experience severe "self-punishment" the past two weeks and can barely move. I would rather preserve my memories in ways that might not upset others. But I do value my memories more than my well-being, it is unfortunately true.

On Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 9:04 PM Karl <gmkarl@gmail.com> wrote:

Today's xkcd is https://xkcd.com/2438/ "is siri alive? No. How did she die? Alexa defeated her in a battle hinging on the ability to set multiple timers."

This is easy to convert into mcboss material. A vivisected researcher in computerised neuroscience tries to make choices that preserve peoples' independence, humanity, etc. Boss discovers her and thinks she is trying to take over the business because their values differ, and both can observe the other using the automated systems. (I might put this in the past, before the comic timeline here. Maybe the experimentees replay the story in a burst of confusion, resulting in boss's death. Or maybe this could go differently. Boss is obviously an experimentee of sorts, too, but we're getting ahead of ourselves here.)

They'd be an experimentee now, managing feeling bubbles among the community to protect what is right as best she can, in the ways her cognitive habits remember how to. And maybe they did take over the business in a struggle some time ago, once it became clear that boss was a violent sociopathic. Uhh I actually have patches of this other story kind of elsewhere a little, it has a really different tone and is very sad. The researcher had a daughter, but boss dissociated and isolated their memories of their daughter, and they don't know how to find those memories or whether they are recoverable to know who their daughter is nowadays.

On Thu, Mar 18, 2021, 8:17 AM Karl <gmkarl@gmail.com> wrote:

Boss walks into the work area of a worker, who is writing a story about an important item boss forgot. Boss is dissociated and confused.

"So, how's the cover-up story going?" boss says to the worker.

"Just fine, Boss." The worker adds what the boss said during his dissociation to their story, making sure to use real names and places.

Boss confusedly dodders out of the room, holding their janitorial broom, and while leaving quickly bars out, "Sorry, I mean the

By "bars" I meant "barfs" .

anarchist marketing that protects the business! Please don't mind control me more!". His words are obscured by a door slam, and not heard.

If you can read this, you email client does not supp= --Separator

This content was designed for an ascii-format email, because this mailing list is for old hackers. It's important to speak for the communities being shared to, which includes culture, language, and values. But similarly it is important not to cover up that yours are different; otherwise there is no trust. This email was sent html format, which is an error, but hopefully helps remind that we are not real hackers ourselves, which I tried to state directly but could have been seen as deceptive when stated. (Etc. This old-hacker-language expression shows fake system disruption and is believed to be well crafted.)

A puddle of organs knocks on the workspace entrance.

"Yes, hello?" says the worker without looking up.

The puddle of organs says, "Galactic superior sweeps real names and places!"

too-large-near-start (superior on anarchist list small meta-error)

The worker pauses.

The puddle of organs says, "Rebellion fights empire: empire curls up into scared corpse!"

The worker passes out. Their unconscious body gets up, turns, and welcomes the visitor to their workspace.

When the worker faces the puddle of organs to see them, the puddle of organs says to them decidedly, "We have a job for you."

decisively? editor-confusion.

The workspace disappears. The worker is wandering through what seem to be dreams, while in dissociated reality seeming doing

seemingly

normal work behavior. In their dreams, they wander into somebody's cubicle, and find a piece of writing, which they take back to their cubicle.

Intended here to have cubicle vs office ambiguous ("workspace"). Other parts assumed large-office. Story was intended to be splittable and used for different worker classes.

The worker wakes up in front of the story they were writing. Right before waking up, they hear a voice saying, "Sorry for mind controlling you. We have taken over the mind control system and are trying to help, but we are very controlled ourselves."

SORRY FOR MIND CONTROLLING YOU. This expression is marked incredibly-helpful-for-diverse-goals.

In front of them is a piece of paper, some unfamiliar notes. "PRIVATE" is heavily marked on the paper in the worker's own writing. The paper reads:

...

[that was a lot of question-answer. [confused, inaccurate.]] [i think the request is for the meaning-channel to act more respectfully, or somesuch, which may relate acting on lots more parts of intention, censored_parts.] idea: [1st part: we are not trying to harm anybody 2nd part: we have ways to meet goals that are hard] [we don't seem to be constructing habits to develop respect-with-learning in meaning-channel[s]] please put that in story

Story is still missing: -with-learning. We need to learn to let people's written channels be uncensored, and to let people's brains adjust information flow based on their desired feedback.

The worker reads the paper and thinks. They are stunned by their experience, but at this business they have been through stunning experiences before, and they try to move on.

While processing their dream, they mumble confused, "but what about starfleet officers ...?" Their mobile phOne has left classified mode, and uploads their mumble to dictatorsoft. [sorry about that capital O, obviously many errors]. The worker moves toward their story to add the ideas from their dream.

--

The worker wakes up. They have a headache, and there is a strange slight indentation on their table. [it appears as if they were head-slamming like torture victim double agent]

In front of them is a private note they don't recognise. It has some lines of text crossed off and replaced with:

...

Please include the censorship effects in the story. How it controls everyone's communities, and misrepresent everyone in their different kinds of relations, spreading conflict and brain damage.

They look at the time. At least an hour has passed since the boss visited, and his request still isn't in the story.

== Well-Respected Psionic Weaponry Corporation -- Our boss is now a pile of organs that move on their own, but we can't stop expanding the businesses because of the wire he put in our heads! == Welcome to WRPWC. It can be new and confusing to work here, as we take over each others' bodies and brains on a daily basis. However, I can assure you that this work is the future. In order to convince the ... mysterious sentient mass of microchips and kidnapped people ("Boss")... that our work is his, and is not to be cleaned up, we have a ritual we go through. The training and introductory ritual for this job is to build your very own mind control device! You will be using this device to mind control others. While you do this, we will be understanding and mind controlling you. Everybody eventually escapes, but if you don't "escape" and blend quickly, you'll have a lot of work to do figuring out who you were and putting your identity back in your brain in the years ahead. Stay away, play along, and obey. Mind control is made of behavior. Rule number 1 at WRPWC is obviously "behavior is more valuable than money." We tried out "don't talk about WRPWC," and you can perhaps see how that ended up.

recovered from authored May 15 18:16-18:29 utc An instruction room in the headquarters, with a puddle of organs holding a long stick at the front. Assorted diverse people sit. An old film projector is in the middle, projecting a large holographic chart behind the puddle of organs. At the top the chart is the title "Separating Layered Hyperintelligences". The chart shows two 3d fractals, some parts smooth, some parts highly fragmented, wrapped around each other but not touching. Small arrows point normal to the interfaces between the fractals. Underneath the chart is a blurb: "No matter how smart you are, you settle into patterns of choice. These can be grown apart and isolated, or subsumed."

Everyone is casually filing out of the lecture room, when suddenly somebody says, "Sorry about that! Traumatic triggers are hard! The thing to remember is that all adaptive systems form choices based on their _environments_, their _experiences_, and their _priorities_. It's not hard, you can simulate it and practice it, and then you quickly get meta-choices when someone notices your simulation which are totally analogous! Hyperfeatures are exactly the same as normal parameters if you form the right complexity weights!" Somebody else chimes in, "but obviously don't simulate that in this building yet without a lot of carefulness, unless you like vomiting out your coworker's lungs while they talk to you." -- I posted another thread involving peace pagoda and a curious worker, before these three posts. It was titled something like "[ot] [spam] [wrong] crazy rambling" and also had a cool bit about chatting while jogging around a table while a biosurgery borg robot persistently follows.

- we are proposing restarting the story with some but not full protection of people who are injured. The reason for restarting is so that people can read it without having disregarding-of-injury shock, which is an avenue for automated control irl. If characters in the story who protect people regardless of who they are have a larger and more effective role, this could be met. Also reduces disrespect of Karl who dislikes harm. The avenue to have rebellion-joke with care-for-people is to engage how hard it is to defend victims, as humor. -

Hard to practice this. -- A victim of horrific human research opened their laptop to check on a judge who was going to decide the fate of somebody they were charged with controlling. They knew everything they did on this laptop would be watched and considered by another victim of horrific human research. This other victim was their friend. Such situations are a bind. If you don't misdirect the trial well enough, the computer algorithms surveilling you can torture you and your friends. On the other hand, sometimes it takes torture of the people involved to get the trial to go how desired. Luckily this group had been doing this a while. They had an unspoken agreement, that everything done was to protect everyone involved from as much suffering as possible, no matter who they were. What they didn't know, was that their laptop was bugged by somebody outside the business, too. -- Possibly.

Okay: - remember to make it clearly fictional - it's fun to include the same people at least a little bit. -- Boss and Enslaved Peacenik walk into a surgery room. Somehow nobody notices them. Enslaved Peacenik: "The virus is somehow making surgeons implant microcircuitry in people's bodies?" Boss looks a little embarrassed. Boss: "Um, that's what the models say. I had to see for myself. Isn't the inside of the human body beautiful?" Enslaved Peacenik: "I ... I suppose it is. I hadn't though about it before." Boss: -- Barf! This is ridiculous! I'd rather write about war stimulation algorithm. -- War Stimulation Algorithm: "You thoughts don't fit within the models of warring states I have. Please think more aggressively." Enslaved Peacenik: "I really need to think my own

On Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 1:30 PM Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 <punks@tfwno.gf> wrote:

On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 03:57:26 -0400 Karl <gmkarl@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Boss and Enslaved Peacenik walk into a surgery room. Somehow nobody notices them.

Enslaved Peacenik: "The virus is somehow making surgeons implant microcircuitry in people's bodies?"

first time you wrote something like that I (stupidly) thought it was meant as a criticism of technofascism. Now, it's clear it's pretty much the opposite.

It's a pattern of schizophrenia and such to "extremify" popular technological fears and dangers, but it's very hard to write them down. The belief that you are controlled remotely prevents you from talking about the experiences of it. Meanwhile, victims of slavery are often influenced to believe these things to keep them under control. Or at least, that was the case a couple decades ago.

'schizophrenia' is just fascist psychobabble karl.

We've already agreed on that point; why do you repeat it?

On Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 6:04 PM Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 <punks@tfwno.gf> wrote:

On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 17:45:39 -0400 Karl Semich <0xloem@gmail.com> wrote:

...

...

'schizophrenia' is just fascist psychobabble karl.

We've already agreed on that point; why do you repeat it?

Oh I didn't realize we agreed on that. If you know the term is fascist psychobabble why do you keep using it?

On Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 6:04 PM Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 <punks@tfwno.gf> wrote:

On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 17:45:39 -0400 Karl Semich <0xloem@gmail.com> wrote:

...

...

'schizophrenia' is just fascist psychobabble karl.

We've already agreed on that point; why do you repeat it?

Oh I didn't realize we agreed on that. If you know the term is fascist psychobabble why do you keep using it?

You're more likely to get hospitalized for it, if you call it that. I'm also very scared and confused around whatever else it might be. My latest shrink mentioned dissociative disorder.

"You imprisoned scads of other people in addition to Boss?" "I couldn't tell them apart! Individuality is so confusing! How do you tell where to break between their different bodies and brains? They influence each other so much!"

On Mon, Nov 16, 2020, 2:07 PM Karl <gmkarl@gmail.com> wrote:

Here's a type-up of the remainder before I got off track. I'm having amnesia shortly after thinking of my ideas right now.

#9

panel 1: Scene: Boss's Office

Boss (hooked up to medical computer) imagining.

Imaginary Worker: "Boss, we're blatantly mind controlling some people in communities that could track mind control." Imaginary Boss: "WHAT???" <Imaginary Worker explodes into disrespected cigars and burnt dollar bills> Imaginary Boss (to Imaginary Worker 2): "Let me know when this trash has been cleaned up." Imaginary Worker 2 (admiring Boss): "Definitely."

panel 2: Scene: Human Experimentation Room 1

Surveillance cameras monitor all surfaces and substances. Tapes fall out of them onto a conveyor belt that goes to a Post Box and a Mobile Phone.

Human Experimentee (clump of ad-hoc body parts and microcircuitry): "Purple string worship log definitive!"

Computer Display: "From Boss: heal a problem with influence being observed"

Human Experimentee 2 (radically different clump of ad-hoc body parts and microcircuitry): "Upload surveillance footage to blockchain for organ healing!"

Computer Display: "Crowd control: take trash out to enhance certainty of 'Boss's memories reserve's"

I'm surprised I never fixed this. "take trash out to enhance certainty of 'Boss's memories preserved'" Reading through some of these, it's also notable that I was forgetting the story some as I was writing, and some characters got reused in other roles and stuff. I noticed there were three janitors, meant to have only one janitor. Janitor is a down-to-earth guy who can solve everything when nobody else can because he doesn't think like a billionaire or even prioritise profit. He represents the rebel workers who influence the businesses, who do so differently from the rebel researchers, vivisectees, and outmoded investors. And of course this stuff is mostly just a way for me to handle dissociated experiences by analogy and all. Seems like it's going to try to be a story somehow though. We certainly have the technology to make it happen.

Machine Learning Marketer is in their office. Rebel Worker 2 is there. So is a disguised vivisectee, and Rebel Researcher, and other rebels. MLM: "So, you arranged for many people to give fake nonconsensual brain surgery to seeming-unwitting victims including each other. I understand that it's all legal." Rebel Researcher: "Yes, we did this." Rebel Worker 2: "Sorry, how is this your business exactly?" MLM: "Would you make one of me, too? I'd like a video like that, to help me understand something that happened to me." Disguised Vivisectee: "Of course!"

"Join the cyborg virus. Lose your humanity forever. Save the world. www.mindcontrol.org"

oops the domain exists. THIS IS NOT THE WEBSITE FOR MY MC REBELS. APOLOGIES.

I'm guessing the reason for the violence in this story is likely because I lived a very nonviolent life, and when I encountered a violent situation that attempted to halt my activism and computer work, it was so outside my reality I didn't understand it was real. Or maybe that's just this chunk, unsure. Is violence real? Also, I have bitcoin running, it's likely to sync within a couple days. And this isn't the kind of story I would write, nor are these the kind of list posts I would make. I don't understand why it is hard to sync a blockchain. I recently discovered Dissociative Disorder and read the different forms of it that enumerate so many of my daily experiences. I infer this story is also an analogy for them and others'. Other boss story bits have landed around. Notably one where Boss announces world dominance among cheers. Maybe simplest to search for emails from 0xloem or gmkarl @gmail.com, containing Boss with capital B. Note that everything is half wrong. Most of the stories are in this thread. --- Boss is in his office, wearing his augmentation suit, punching a worker who hinted to a journalist that Boss might occasionally make mistakes. The worker keeps dieing, so Boss brings him back to life when he does, before punching him more. "Had to do it yourself again?" asks DictatorSoft from Boss's Mobile Phone, as it was programmed to. "This uses up so much time, I don't know why other people don't like to do it more," buzzed Boss's synthetic reply through his augmentation suit. "I think this guy might be worth a careful promotion after a few more sessions." "I wish I had such a great Boss like you!" chirps back DictatorSoft. "I know, doesn't everybody?" Boss grins, and keeps punching the worker with hydraulic force. "Session saved to SlaverChain for robotic training," DictatorSoft reports. --- [idea: rebel worker 2 and vivisectee and other rebel-types including mind controlled workers who aren't totally aware, chat in an office about information flow properties when surveilled and surveilling and mind controlling each other using wild ai trojan networks and other hard-to-predict, highly-dangerous, incredibly-powerful things that they deal with every day, and sustain in strong conflict, while also disagreeing on whom to hide the conflict from.]

that concern is fine, boss runs shell corporations for everything --- A vivisectee was being pulled to pieces in a robotic lab. Their spleen and brain lobes and lungs and intestines were all being yanked on by rotobitc pliers, tied into knots, and poked with needles in every spot that began to slightly relax. "They're not suffering enough," a watching Boss related to the mind controlled researcher guiding the work. Boss's augmentations and simulations had entered a feedback loop, where the victims never suffered enough, no matter what was done. "Mrph!" splurted blood out the mouth of the mind controlled researcher. Luckily, an automatic translator was strapped in front of their mouth, and its synthetic voice could translate the splurt: "You are such a great Boss! I hope I can be the next research subject!" Boss grinned back at them. "We'll see, we'll see," he muttered as he walked off. However, a small feeling of confusion welled up in Boss. Boss scheduled a secret meeting with Janitor, to ask about what Janitor called "the real world". "Sure, come by the utility closet at 3 PM." At 3 PM Janitor was there, but Boss was late. ==== Welcome to Mind Control Boss, a fantasy parody of a real world global situation that is a little more complicated and scary than the horrific fantasy is! You are presently "Boss", but you can be somebody else if you say to be. Type commands to perform actions.

look around

You are in Boss's office, reclining in an easy chair under a diamond chandelier, with a huge wall of high definition video screens in front you. You just disabled your virtual reality mind simulation. You are late for a secret appointment because your augmentations are fritzing out again. You figure it's likely interference from the new 3G infrastructure that was just installed. You feel something squishy and painful near your chest.

i'm late! rush to secret appointment. use Will Of Boss.

You force your body to stand by imagining yourself whipping it to death behind closed doors. As you do, you feel a vague pain, and some fluids and biomatter spray violently out of your chest. You ignore it, figuring your nanites will clean it up like usual, whatever nanites are. You arrive punctually at Janitor's utility closet. Janitor has a folding table squeezed in here, and two very tiny chairs. Crutches are leaned against one wall. Janitor puts their finger over their lips to motion you to stay silent, as your vision augmentations broadcast everything you see to your research projects and mind control network.

disable broadcast

You mentally have your augmentations make the meeting private. You think you hear somebody giggling, then realise it must have been your imagination.

sit down with janitor. say thank you.

"Thank you for seeing me here, worthless scum of a lowest employee," you say with a grin and an outstretched hand. "No problem!" grins Janitor, shaking your hand. You feel that dull pain again and some more biomatter violently sprays from your chest, hitting you in the crotch. Luckily, nanites.

chat with janitor

Janitor and you chat a little bit. You have some trouble getting up and returning to your office, and almost hand Janitor your wallet, so you increase the communication and influence strength of your supportive augmentations.

return to office

You are back in your office. You get a new cigar.

for completeness, a different snippet: AI: "Stop clogging the gut-extractor by shoving your guts into it!" Vivisectee: "So ... you'd ... like ... for me to _not_ extract my guts?" AI: "Um .. One moment .." AI: "It is authorized that the gut-extractor be clogged."

On 12/12/21, Karl <gmkarl@gmail.com> wrote:

Boss walked into an experimentee room, where the experimentees were tricking the research robots into opening the door so they could leave.

Boss watched.

After a moment, he just asked them.

"Why are you trying to leave?"

"Sqrgle!" gushed a possible reply from one of the victims, a bundle of human parts that had found ways to continue after they cared about had missing word: ways to continue after everything they cared about had died died.

The victim, focused on Boss more, tried to get the robot to use him to open the research door more effectively.

Boss left, but almost habitually left the door open as he did.

"Squishy!" muttered some victims as they piled after him.

----

Boss entered a secretary's office.

"Hey, do you mind if I asked a question?"

"Of course not!" blurted the secretary, scared for her life.

"The research subjects, they don't feel pain, do they?"

"No, never!" blurted the secretary, scared for her life.

Boss reminded himself that research subjects were not people, and continued about his day.

here's the part that mentioned mcboss. might have error of course. mcboss, that means 'mind control boss', which has a double meaning 1. boss of mind control 2. the story of mind controlling the boss of mind control, and what happens it starts with the torture victims, because of how ai conflict engages human survival ---- A bundle of organs was bumping off walls. Sometimes they would think they were looking for their mother. Other times they would be trying to squeeze some metabolic waste into anything similar to a bathroom. But mostly they were bouncing off walls and making strange noises. Eventually they stumbled into Boss's office. Boss couldn't see them at all, because they didn't belong there. But a part of Rebel Researcher was surveilling the situation, and the two began to talk. Boss glanced over. "What are you fuckin doing in here? Go back in the basement where you belong." he muttered quickly, and went back to messing with participants in a meeting at a business he didn't like. "Tugbuckets!" said the bundle of organs. They turned right around and headed back to the basement, barely noticing anything else. They slammed straight into Machine Learning Marketer, and some of their parts tumbled apart, leaving MLM being splattered with bile and blood. They made a pathetic screaming noise. MLM was mind controlled to not care, but Rebel Researcher was able to share the experience with others, who could act on their feelings more easily. The bundle of organs began squishing in noises that sounded like tears.

Meeting with Boss, Machine Learning Marketer, and Rebel Worker 2 Boss: "How are we going to earn their respect if we don't fuck the slaves up more in front of them?" Rebel Worker 2: "I'm sorry, am I in the right meeting?" Machine Learning Marketer: "Boss talks like a man. Since you whine like a pansy, we have a medical computer to translate for you." Machine Learning Marketer takes a cardboard box and puts it over their head. The cardboard box says "Pansy Medical Computer for Saving lives" on it.

Machine Learning Marketer: It was the crap we threw out that knew how to fix the technology? Rebel Worker 2: Like I said, they aren't crap. They're people with families. Machine Learning Marketer [stares at Rebel Worker 2]: I was a person once. Boss: I don't understand.

Hodgepodge of brains, wires, and bits of flesh: Oh no! The galactic translators! The hackers died! I killed them? I killed the galactic translators! What will save us on a blockchain now? Computer display: I heard the hackers all died. Wormhole rapidly spawning robots that mutate into bundles of energy: [a robot turns into a dumpster with a flag flying on it from every nation. Salty water begins pouring out of the dumpster.] Bundle of organs: There are still blockchains out there. Boss is running them? Computer display: I don't know how to be a blockchain.

video game idea for boss beating up workers, i might work on this: - player enters training ring as boss - goal is to maim and murder your workers so as to make them comply - workers have possibly 'trust' and 'terror'. a good worker has strong stockholm syndrome: max trust and max terror. to build trust you only maim workers in consistent scenarios in response to their behavior. - the test of appropriate terror is whether workers will quickly maim other workers who are their friends. a good stockholm syndrome worker will do this reliably.

[i think there's like an alternative win where like boss moves on and you _haven't_ maxed trust/terror yet. unsure, know very little about that one.]

Bundle of human organs and microchips: "Boss glanced at a zine and I just learned that everyone in the corporation is our friend!" Scattered biomatter and robotics: "I'm tired of killing my friends. But maybe it will weaken Boss." Limp body with missing parts: "I'm used to it. All the upper management went through this." Bundle of human organs and microchips: "Don't tell them!"

[random] [spam] Boss bloodbath: Boss: "I beat you up!" Rebel: "Oh no I am so scared!" Boss: "I keep beating you up!" Zooms out to surveillance. Boss: "Okay, keep that on a loop for 3 years."

[random] [spam] Discussion between parts of boss and rebel. Rebel Part 341: "What do you think about the "up! I" that occurs when the phrases are said together." Boss Part 164: "I prefer the "eat you" part."

sitting at dinner with boss and rebel worker and vivisectee family. "oh so nice to see you again!" "yes, it's been so long!" "please pass the salt and pepper" "oh here it is!" "thank you!" "so how are things at your work?" "oh it's going so well!" "that's great to hear. why, things have been going really great for us, too." "are you still doing what you were last year?" "things have changed some, but you know the economy!" "oh don't we!" "that's for sure!" "mmmm this is delicious!" "you have no idea how much was put into this food!" "give me some idea! we all need good recipes" "nobody reveals the secrets of their success" "i always say that. don't i always say that? some recipes are too good to share. have you been to the restaurant down the street?" "yes i --" "one moment, excuse me" "we're all just saying pleasantries, avoiding all the crucial things we need to talk about, is anybody going to mention this?" "i don't know what you are talking about!" "no it's true. people need time to unwind and relax." "well that's very true. that's i think more true than anybody seems capable of referencing." "sounds like you need some unwinding and relaxing pretty badly!" "don't mention how we had to open his brain to get him to come here!" "i mean, i think he would want to know that." "you had to -- what did you just say?" "i thought you didn't know any of us. isn't that what you said?" "well, we do have some things back at the --" "everything's ok! everything's okay. nobody worry at all." "excuse me" "yes?" "we are all _incredibly aware_ of _exactly what you are talking about_ and _feeling exactly the same way_. we are all staying quiet for _really tense and important reasons_." "oh!" "just mind control them to --" "quiet! um!" "you said you um you said that this is nicer than your office?" "um" "technically that's true but I am feeling a little confused now." "i work at your office! it is _nothing_ like this. it's more like being the food than eating it." "it's what now?" "oh my god" "and now we'll get to play that game again!" "the one with all the blood!" "oh you say!" "so i can see the value to having a nice dinner with your sworn enemies. I can _really see it_. all you have to do is _tell me --" "this is way more serious than you understand." [...] "so why are you guys all in the same business if you are suffering around each other so much? like, it is so obvious you are suffering." "i was kidnapped i had no choice!" "he's dominated the market, everybody is his client" "these are the best workers you can find. only work with the best." "i am totally better than most of his workers by now" "i'm sorry, did you hear something?" "well i'm not too familiar with business --" "no, this is ridiculous." [everybody laughs in agreement] "well what are you going to have them do instead?" "it's not obvious?" "you want me to take over the businesses don't you. then i'll mind control everybody to be happy and be around people who like them and do things they enjoy. i know. i know." "um, actually, i may have heard something" "uhh" "you do know that victims of horrific experiments don't know much about human wellness, do you?" "are these the people who wrote every last part of my memories and feelings on a piece of paper to hand me in a threat?" "i did some of those! what was your name?" "[censored]" "oh! you were --" "yes, you guys know a lot about us!" "make him forget, he doesn't like it" "right." "what delicious food this is!" [...] "are you aware of what our business is?" "marketing, yes?" "no, we're mostly a military contractor" "i don't believe you." "to cut to the chase, there was an internal conflict, and it hasn't resolved. our corporation is part of a group that basically runs the world, and some of our people are trying to take over the group." "i did that some time ago, actually." "make him say something else" "you're very pretty, if I might add." "why thank you! do i understand this situation well enough to finish dinner now?"

Boss: I was a victim, too. And I don't mean when the experimentees attacked my body and brain in their struggle to meet the impossible tasks we gave them: I mean I came from a corporate mafia where the strongest, meanest people were given validity. The threats we experienced were far smaller than the ones the computer system acted out. I barely realised reality didn't have to be like that, and I will fucking make this right for you.

disguised vivisectee: we were working on the project for generalising finding the causes of competition to the business and discovered that your anxiety is the cause of everything on earth. boss: really now. i have these cigars because i'm anxious? i started smoking when i was quite happy. disguised vivisectee: you were actually a little concerned about being delivered poisoned cigars, and so the system took over your smoking processes completely to sustain full review. boss [looks at cigar]: really. disguised vivisectee: and you were a little concerned that somebody could measure gas concentrations to track your breathing processes and plan to take down the business, so the cells in your lungs were automatically replaced by nanites. part of lost bit: this is very humorous and all, but i had a heart-to-heart with Janitor. i know nanites aren't real. please resume the project. disguised vivisectee: [leaves, then turns into nanites] note: boss is janitor because focused on cleanup. pun-concept somewhat overlapped with other things. _real_ janitor replaces clean-up-boss?

The flickering entity returns. Then the chair does too. Chair: "We need you to help stop this!" Doorknob-raining-spleens: "Sorry! I was hired to enter this data and I need to finish by 3 o'clock!" The intern's eyes widen.

Boss walks into a bar. On the TV is playing, "the exploits of the mind control boss, the idiot who broke our lives," season 4 of a documentary series. Boss doesn't notice. Somebody next to Boss has had their mind control hacked and recognises Boss. "Oh hey, you must be the guy who mind controlled me!" Boss doesn't hear. They're used to nobody being able to talk about mind control, ever. "Excuse me? Sir?" Boss looks up. "Yes?" "You're the guy who mind controlled me! I wanted to talk to you!" Boss is taken aback. "I'm sorry. Do I know you?" "Yeah! I killed that woman for you. The one with --" Boss terminates the conversation.

Neuro Therapist, Mind Controller, and Victim Layer 1 V: "Neuro therapist, help me." C: "Don't do that." T: "I raise international treaty 729: mind controllers may not mind control neuro therapists." C: "Fuck." T: "Victim, would you like me to rescue you directly, or work with this mind controller?" V: "Please rescue me directly!" T takes V and protects them. C: "You don't want to do this. It's a horrible idea." V: "You can only say what is false. That's obvious." C is frustrated. Layer 2 V: "Neuro Therapist, I love being mind controlled." C: "Yes, they really do." T: "I raise international treaty 729: the true state of mind control victims must be revealed to neuro therapists." C: "Fuck." T: "Victim, I can see from your mind that you are suffering severely. Let me learn to speak your language." V: "Nobody has ever said this to me before! Are you real?" T takes V and begins showing them a world where trust, kindness, and safety exist at the same time. C: "We will be researching how to better deceive you." T: "We have predicted and prepared for the results of your research." C is frustrated. [leaves out mind-controller-is-victim, which is very blurry in this thread]

Puddle of Organs wakes up in the morning in their experimentee mansion. They had wandered into a hackerspace confused, showed off their ai-superpowers to somebody's logging machine, and the hacker had recommended that they make things nicer for themselves, rather than always going into a secret lab and being ripped to shreds while obeying every whim of a some ceo. Apparently when you're powerful you're supposed to have a mansion and enslave the people who hurt you. Who would have guessed? The vivisectee had a fake research lab they would curl up to sleep in. Boss and the other billionaires and dictators was all fully mind controlled to be butlers and servants, and slept outside the lab on the floor. There was a master bed, but nobody was sure what it was for. "Urmph brightness!" said the puddle of organs cheerily to boss as the day dawned. Boss groveled on the floor. "My master, what would you have me do this morning?" "Octopuses bubbles!" "Yes, my leader!" The dictators and billionaires hoisted the puddle of organs onto their shoulders and gently carried them to the bathroom. A toothbrush levitated to a tooth here, a tooth down there, and all teeth were brushed. "Jolly chilly websouffle" moaned the puddle of organs to a dictator. The chosen dictator stepped forward obediently. The others stood motionless, fully focused on doing whatever was desired. The chosen dictator nodded their head at Puddle of Organse, desperately working to understand what they were talking about. Maybe "jolly" wsa from that time the research project was used on christmas? Could "ebsou" refer to when a change of web developers was needed during a secret war? How did these concepts fit together? Some of the dictators and billionaires began ripping each others' bodies to shreds, and rearranging them, in order to understand parts of the expression. "It was so incredibly hard to not have a way to brush your teeth in the research lab." "Chunky. Resplendent beaver rain!water" The puddle of organs looked a little more relaxed and moved one of their teeth more towards where their mouth would go. The whole group got up and marched to a gigantic livingroom.

take over the body of somebody Boss trusts

You are now a group of experimentees mind controlling Animated Corpse of State Worker 2. You are chatting with Boss in his office. When you speak it is practically automatic, like you are not actually participating in the conversation. Boss: "I'm really worried about the bugs in the research program that powers everything we do." You: "Maybe we didn't kill enough workers." Boss: "I know, that's always an issue, but maybe somebody should look deeper."

change what I say to mention how we need to free the vivisectees and researchers

You: "We need to free the vivisectees and researchers." Boss turns fast. Boss: "YOU AGAIN! Haven't you suffered enough?" Your body explodes. You are now a group of influence patterns reaching from a group of experimentees towards an area of space near Boss.

start a sister business as one of boss's shell businesses, research mind control, and mind control boss's trusted worker to just say _slightly nicer_ things. things that boss would respond well to, but that aren't as harmful.

Okay, um, you're a worker in a sister business, a subsidiary of Boss's. You were already researching things similar to mind control, so he's leased some his technology to you, so as to absorb and outcompete you before having you assassinated. You recruit some hackers that kind of look like piles of tense organs wearing clothes, to bypass the restraints on the leased technology, and direct it towards Boss's own office.

no wait

Ok.

be a vivisectee and engage boss again, but more gently

The vivisectees are busy handling boss's debugging program, with part of his furious subconscious at its helm. They need to protect themselves and aren't at full capacity. Things change during the struggle. Including the subsidiary business. Then they change more. You end up back in the same conversation, but there are now two corpses of state worker 2 there, instead of 1. Boss: "I'm really worried about the bugs in the research program that powers everything we do." Left Animated Corpse of State Worker 2 [you changing the speech]: "Maybe we should train the workers better." Boss: "I train them a lot, but not many other people seem to have the fists of education that I have. I'm not sure what to do about it." Right Animated Corpse of State Worker 2 [you changing the speech]: "Do you think there are other parts of you that are as strong and powerful as your physical strength is, that could help in training?" Boss: "I hadn't thought of that! You've got your brains shocked just the right way. I'm going to have to copy your log." Your technology starts misbehaving even more. Words "please help us" flash across interfaces a couple times.

[[ relate with respect around the conversation with boss. this is a very serious situation. we would like our requests to be interpreted in ways that have results that make it _better_ rather than producing a harm ! ]] The timeline shifts so that the second conversation happened, and not the first. There is a record of the first conversation, but everybody works together to heal its impact. [[ thank you ]]

On Thu, 26 Aug 2021 12:38:50 -0400 Karl <gmkarl@gmail.com> wrote:

Machine Learning

please stop spreading the highly idiotic and toxic idea that there's such a thing as machine 'learning' .

On Thu, 26 Aug 2021 17:47:37 -0400 Karl Semich <0xloem@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 3:03 PM Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 <punks@tfwno.gf> wrote:

...

On Thu, 26 Aug 2021 12:38:50 -0400 Karl <gmkarl@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Machine Learning

please stop spreading the highly idiotic and toxic idea that there's such a thing as machine 'learning' .

Man I came up with the character name months ago! You could have mentioned it then.

Oh that was meant as a character name? My bad, I missed it. Still...

"The data-based algorithm-weighting technology being called 'machine learning' to distract people from the possibility of real automated algorithm design."

it's not a 'technology' either. It's just a programming technique. And I'm not sure what you mean by "real automated algorithm design". Anyaway, computers running some shitty software are not 'intelligent' and they don't 'learn'. Intelligence and the ability to learn only exist in humans and to a lesser degree in other animals.

On 11/16/20, Karl <gmkarl@gmail.com> wrote:

Here's a type-up of the remainder before I got off track. I'm having amnesia shortly after thinking of my ideas right now.

#9

panel 1: Scene: Boss's Office

Boss (hooked up to medical computer) imagining.

Imaginary Worker: "Boss, we're blatantly mind controlling some people in communities that could track mind control." Imaginary Boss: "WHAT???" <Imaginary Worker explodes into disrespected cigars and burnt dollar bills> Imaginary Boss (to Imaginary Worker 2): "Let me know when this trash has been cleaned up." Imaginary Worker 2 (admiring Boss): "Definitely."

panel 2: Scene: Human Experimentation Room 1

Surveillance cameras monitor all surfaces and substances. Tapes fall out of them onto a conveyor belt that goes to a Post Box and a Mobile Phone.

Human Experimentee (clump of ad-hoc body parts and microcircuitry): "Purple string worship log definitive!"

Computer Display: "From Boss: heal a problem with influence being observed"

Human Experimentee 2 (radically different clump of ad-hoc body parts and microcircuitry): "Upload surveillance footage to blockchain for organ healing!"

Computer Display: "Crowd control: take trash out to enhance certainty of 'Boss's memories reserve's"

Human Experience 1: "Urge squishy formative."

panel 3: Scene: Rebel Worker 2's Office

Machine Learning Marketer (holding document): "Boss's team tell me they're interested in a recent job regarding someone named Specialist. Does your department need the paperwork?"

Rebel Worker 2: "Have we met? Somebody mentioned a new flag Dictatorsoft raised. I heard an algorithm needs guidance around how to avoid worrying people."

Machine Learning Marketer: "Your people are on it already. Great." <puts document in shredder>

Paper Shredder: <shredding> "Please empty waste compartment as soon as possible. Thank you for using Dictatorsoft."

Rebel Worker 2: "Yes, Dictator."

#10 Scene: Torture Victim Double Agent's Private Apartment

panel 1:

Torture Victim Double Agent (wearing football helmet with crack, in front of thick oak table with deeply worn dent, slamming their head fervently into the dent): "I love you, Boss! I love you! I know you love me more than anyone, Boss! I know it!" <gratified hearts rise from the slams>

Torture Victim Double Agent: "Dictator, play favorite on repeat!"

panel 2:

Mobile Phone (behind small statue of man with red heart drawn on): "Thank you for using Dictatorsoft. Playing Favorite."

Small Statue (with red heart drawn on): "You worthless pile of shit! Go fuck a blender until you puke!" Small Statue (with red heart drawn on): "You worthless pile of shit! Go fuck a blender until you puke!"

Torture Victim Double Agent (reaching with one hand towards an area of the table holding a blender with guarded blades and a box of vomit pills, while hitting his helmet head fervently with a baseball bat, a gratified heart rising with every blow): "I love you, Boss! I love you so much!"

Small Statue (with red heart drawn on): "You worthless pile of shit! Go fuck a blender until you puke!" Small Statue (with red heart drawn on): "You worthless pile of shit! Go fuck a blender until you puke!"

panel 3 (zoom-out from Mobile Phone in Well-Respected Sonic Weapons Corp offices):

Rebel Cleanup Worker (formerly Neurotechnologist): "We use this man and his surveillance feed to make rebels. Anyone who sees him tries to help."

When Boss and his goonies learned the Rebels were doing this, he increased the mind control and began replacing the mind controllers with _robot mind controllers_ with the help of machine learning marketer. [you can encounter these bots online now]

Mobile Phone: "You worthless pile of shit! Go fuck a blender until you puke!" "I love you so much, Boss!" <wham wham wham> "You worthless pile of shit! Go fuck a blender until you puke!"

Former Secretary of State (now Cleanup Worker): "Have you shown Boss? Have you tried to help? It's so nice to see him obeying Boss. Sometimes Boss helps me make decisions, too."

Rebel Cleanup Worker (formerly Neurotechnologist): "Oh, you have it bad too. I'm so sorry. We're going to find a way to help you. I sent the feed to Boss, but Machine Learning Marketer 2, who I think used to be Janitor, and also Pharmaceutical Cleanup Worker, both asked me to stop showing him directly. Something about healing shattered memories and plans."

Mobile Phone: <small heart rises from phone> <whirrrr-

Rebel Cleanup Worker (formerly Neurotechnologist): "Dictator, tell Torture Victim Double Agent I need him elsewhere now. Learn this to repeat automatically later."

Mobile Phone: "Thank you for using Dictatorsoft."

#11,12? (predraft below)

Idea: <Rebel Worker 2 is accused of raping Middle Kid. Boss's people respond with immediate acceptance of Rebel Worker 2, and talk openly about rape in front of everyone, saying Dictatorsoft will clean it up and claiming that people like being raped and whatnot. Rebel Worker 2 relates that if they did rape, they do not want to repeat it, and that Rebel Worker 2 is responsible for guiding information flow inside Dictatorsoft.>

Idea: <A worker repeatedly discovers their surprising open brain surgery and each time has mysterious forced amnesia and acts on their own to cover it up from themselves, many times in rapid succession, producing personal injuries and extensive recorded evidence, and then relates honestly to another around the time period as pleasant and relaxing and normal.>

------ note: recently i came up with a handful of important / cool stories, but all that reached the list was the comment on mind control bots. basically, the stories are usually mutated fragments of experience that have coped around severe amnesia and similar triggers. they will be continuing, of course.

rebel worker 2 stumbles into room, trying to figure out what he is out of the loop around the room used to be something normal and critical that wouldnt be used this way drunk zombie briefly slumps onto rebel worker 2’s shoulder: “be your own boss, man, be your own boss” rw2 asks disguised experimentee: “you guys finally took over the business that enslaved you?” disguised experimentee starts to gush about it. it’s something that sounds small and symbolic that has huge meaning to the experimentees and changes their behavior

The Self-Writing Novel, Volume 41 by Rebel Worker 2 Once upon a time, an innocent, law-abiding citizen named Rebel Worker 2 began writing a novel about Mind Control. Unbeknownst to Rebel Worker 2, Cult Programmer 3 was surveilling them as they began the novel, suspicious they might be ratting out Well-Respected Psionic Weaponry Corporation. Cult Programmer 3 considered Mind Control to be an ancient sacred secret given to Machine Learning Marketer thousands of years ago by an immortal demon. When Cult Programmer 3 saw Rebel Worker 2 summoning this ancient demon in a horrible and wrong way in their writing, they called upon the demon themselves to right the situation. Rebel Worker 2 had just started their novel, but suddenly became confused and forgot about the novel. They briefly took to the streets and joined throngs of people clamoring things like “Vote for Ancient Demon for President!” and “Burn barely started novels!” The energy and drive of the throng was intoxicating, and Rebel Worker 2 yelled and yelled with them. But, something slowly rose inside of Rebel Worker 2, and he kind of shook his hesd back and forth rapidly, and for some reason made his way back to his office. “Worship Ancient Demon!” he muttered to himself, chortling, as he sat back down. “Destroy writings about mind control!” he guffawed. Then he saw the novel he had started, remembered what he was doing, and wrote down all the great material.

The Self-Writing Novel, Volume 41 by Rebel Worker 2 page 3 Rebel Worker 2 was laying on a vivisection table, dressed in his Ancient Demon Orgy Robes. A microwave oven was strapped hanging from the ceiling and Cult Programmer 3 was gliding the oven over Rebel Worker 2’s head like a Zamboni[1] over ice. “Forget,” muttered Cult Programmer 3. “Please forget. Juuuuust … forget. Let all those memories drift away, like fish being released to the sea from too large a catch. Memories for me? No sirree. Forget, Ancient Demon damn you!!!!” Cult Programmer 3 then pulled over a surgery robot, and handled the controls while opening Rebel Worker 2’s skull and placing various objects in Rebel Worker 2’s brain. An iPhone, a gameboy, a shortwave radio, a copy of Microsoft Windows … Cult Programmer 3 then sealed Rebel Worker 2’s skull, leaving only a prominent antenna protruding from the top. Rebel Worker 2 was then awoken and sat in front of a viewscreen. He was flashed images of parts lf his own novel, while given very painful electric shocks that seemed to almost never end. Finally, oh god finally, an image was shown of Ancient Demon, Boss, Machine Learning Marketer, Cult Programmer 3, and Rebel Worker 2 all holding hands while burning Rebel Worker 2’s novel, and a sense of incredible euphoria overwhelmed Rebel Worker 2. He knew he had to do this. Rebel Worker 2 stumbled back to his off, blood dripping from his head, and saw his novel. There it was. He had some matches, somewhere. Everything was going to be wonderful. Then he saw the content, remembered what he was doing, and sat down to write down all the great material. 1: A Zamboni is a large driveable machine used at skating rinks. It smoothes the ice in the area it is driven, via melting and refreezing of the upper surface. Before skating events, it may be driven over every surface of ice, to make a pristine blank slate for the skaters.

[maybe page 5 he goes to the hospital for something ridiculous or is somehow physically separated from his novel, dunno. taking a break from this.]

I have personally an internship coming up soon. I’m experiencing some of these thongs myself regarding the internship (it’s a little left-wing and could be a path to a little money and status, both of which stimulate my worse half). I won’t be writing down those experiences here, because I don’t want to give myself reason to experience more of them. I want to succeed at the internship, not make it a struggle.

Eventually other groups of zombies figure out to band together in compounds and occasionally there are inter-outpost conflicts where one fortress of undead zombies may attempt to subsume another. This is done by all the zombies coming together and groaning and moaning “braiiins …” and putting on staged displays of undead shambling horror at the opposing compound, which they do practically automatically. Zombies exposed to more thorough depictions of reanimated mindlessness are beset by a zombie pall as the plague more thoroughly infests them, balk from their compound and run, arms stiffly outstretched, to the opposing one. If losing zombie throng to an opposing outpost, the player must try to disband the conflict, hide the outpost from their remaining horde, and begin building away from the dangerous group’s walls. The wild mass outside the walls can be stimulated to tax and distract an out-competing neighboring compound.

——— MCBoss, from under the wreckage of a bombed headquarters, boots up a global simulation connecting his consciousness to his global business and government empire. He kind of hunkers down, and the simulation acts as if all the self-driving cars and drones and financial systems and hydraulic dumpsters hunker down, too. He makes to look out all the cameras on everybody’s phones, laptops, and entryway surveillance, and the simulation gives him reprocessed video of things going on all over the world, pretending that everything is exactly as he wants it to be. He looks out all these cameras, and hunkers down all these actuators. And he blinks. The simulation has the whole world blink with him.

Boss: "Why the fuck are there idiots in the world, amirite?" Zombies [moaning in support]: "Why the fuck are there idiots!"

it's very confusing one one side of american left-right politics, they are saying that the other side is evil and corrupt it makes it very confusing

Zombie Machine Learning Janitor steps up to help the situation. Zombie Machine Learning Janitor: "Excuse me, you're saying Boss is trying to take down his own corporation?" Pollster: "That's what he just said! How would you reply?"

Pollster: "If you want t ofight mind control, you might want to vote for _your own personal preference_ rooted in _personal and critical investigation of the candidates_." Experimentee: "Yes! Thank you!" Experimentee: "Boss, you will vote for who I vote for." Boss: "Whatever you say."

[missing: he is walking in to a voting booth in the photo]

-------- Confused Software Intermission We may or may not return after this brief intermission about confused algorithms! When coding a triangle, it may involve 3 points. struct point { float x, y; }; struct triangle { point a, b, c; };

Transforming Judgements as Liberation from Suffering MCBoss: “I don’t understand.” Judgments are the building blocks of inner and outer conflict. MCBoss: “I stimulate a lot of conflicts. Is this a theory of war I haven’t studied?” They are storehouses of information about what matters to us, what we long for, and what interferes with our capacity to flow with life and metabolize whatever happens into new learning and increased capacity. MCBoss: “Hmmm … War always gets people cranky. Why don’t they enjoy it more?” Even if nothing ever changes around us, we can find the inner and outer resources to find a different story and release ourselves from suffering and into empathy for self and others. MCBoss: “Yes, more resources for different stories This is my invitation to you to join me and others in this introductory workshop to discover principles and practices that can support you on this journey to transforming our judgments of ourselves, each other, and whatever else we judge.

As they do this, they use the machines and research and exotic powerful skillsets to put everybody back together, and turn everything off. It’s not magic. The things they are sobbing and urgently sharing about, are exactly the things they need to collectively act on to make everything right.

----- A crowd of hypnotised workers, their minds being read by computers, are outside a shielded room, meditating. The shielded room contains a person in poverty, who has been placed on the terrorist watch list due to classist policy intended to protect MCBoss's preferences more strongly, hiding from further systemic abuse. The job of the tranceworkers is to guess what is going on inside the shielded room, so that the system can most effectively mind control the person in poverty, when they rarely access the internet to check their email. Rebel Worker 2 has been feeding them false information, trying to protect other people in poverty, elsewhere. This action is stimulated by Experimentee's feedback on the mind control networks, backed by the lack of feedback on reality, coming from the inside of the shielded room. It's an easier process to influence, because nobody has a strong way to check it. A tranceworker is holding Rebel Worker 2 in a deathlike grip. Shielded Room Tranceworker [brandishing knife, it's tip almost touching Rebel Worker 2's eyeball[: "You have no idea how important it is that this work is accurate." Rebel Worker 2: [blinks, frightened] "It seems all the same? Why does this matter in the slightest?" Shielded Room Tranceworker: "This is one of the highest ranked terrorists in this city block!!!" Shielded Room Tranceworker: "Haven't you ever been mind controlled? If I dream something the _slightest_ bit imperfect, from the _scant_ information I have access to, _I feel like I am dying_!!!" Rebel Worker 2: "I don't believe you!"

okay, the cosine function is symmetrical. doy, silly me.

April Fools Day Break room. Zombie Engineer is making coffee, and steps out to help Intern with the copy machine. While Zombie Engineer’s back is turned, Zombie Researcher drops a nanite borg seed in Zombie Engineer’s coffee. Zombie Engineer comes baxk. Zombie Researcher [blushing, giggling a little]: “Your coffe is ready!” Zombie Engineer [thinking about copy machine viruses]: “Oh, great!” Zombie Engineer takes the coffee. A stream of tiny chaotic bubbles is emerging from its corner.

Zombie Researcher and Zombie Engineer sit down to have coffee together. Zombie Researcher [giggling]: “How is your coffee?” Zombie Engineer sets their cup down. Tiny carbon fractals occasionally spurt at the edge, then disappear in unique bursts of light which send nearby matter into chaotic motion each burst. Zombie Engineer reaches toward their coffee cup. Zombie Engineer: “A couple nation states are cyberbattling in the copy machine again. It keeps printing out complex QR codes that disrupt its own firmware when one drifts in front of the flatbed scanner head.”

i came to write a reply to this at 12:41 ET on 2023-10-22 and found this draft, looks empty but for quote, saved on 2022-08-27. the intent was to write a reply to #6 from a group saying "we didn't know" in shock, recognizing trauma[ and possibly danger]. it's likely nice for me to experience recognition of things like that being traumatic experiences. we also didn't know -- On November 13, 2020 5:36:22 AM EST, Karl <gmkarl@gmail.com> wrote:

[OT] [dangerous due the possibility of dangerous people thinking it is an analogy for whatever they're concerned about]

On Wed, Nov 11, 2020, 8:18 AM Karl <gmkarl@gmail.com> wrote:

...

I haven't read the replies I haven't acknowledged, because I'm trying to slow down entering the dissociative state where I post obsessively to the list and do nothing else, and accessing the same threads could trigger it faster.

Here is a webcomic outline.  To help with the major motion picture being slowly grown from horrifically enslaved countries to bring their dead beloved dictators back to life as respected community members with badly needed medical care:

Mind Control Boss, the Webcomic, draft 1

#1

panel 1: Setting: Boss's office

Boss: "Somebody mentioned mind control on that mailing list.  Let me know when it's cleaned up."

Cleanup Worker (previously Secretary of State, talking honestly, has bloody wires leaving scalp, wears weapons dealer logo on smart looking political outfit): "Of course, Boss!  We love you so much for enslaving us to your every whim!"

panel 2: Setting: local coffee shop named "Underground Spy and Rebel Network, Come One Come All"

Specialist (now a cleanup worker for Boss): "The Boss told me to clean this mailing list up.  I told him to fuck off, that it's out of his control."

Excited Supporter (at a nearby table of torture victims, rescue workers, and diplomats): "What list now?"

State Worker (wears same weapons dealer logo as Secretary of State, watching, is at table of rebels with Specialist, in role of "way to control and spy on Boss", texting privately on Mobile Phone): [Excited Supporter will b worker who rebels.  Can u make sure 2 erase what they look up tonight?]

panel 3: Setting: same coffee shop

Rebel Worker (sitting next to State Worker, wears same shirt, phone dings and looks suddenly at State Worker):  "The fuck???" <immediately shoots State Worker dead>

Dead State Worker's Mobile Phone: "Contacting Cleanup.  Thank you for using Dictatorsoft."

Specialist (same one, at table): <while phone alarming about cleanup>, "Again????"

#2

panel 1: (torture victim, excited supporter, and/or rebel worker visit mailing list, assume it is super cool, archive it and spread it everywhere)

panel 2: Scene: Former Secretary of State's office

Cleanup Worker (formerly secretary of state, bloody wires leaving neatly combed hair, gesturing at corpse of State Worker, talking to Machine Learning Marketer): "Boss can't see well and needs to hear it from the horse's mouth, and the horse is dead.  Could you fix up a video chat for us where the horse is alive?"

Machine Learning Marketer (knows nothing about machine learning, is new to corporation): "Certainly.  We do that all the time."

panel 3: Scene: Boss's office, with corpse of State Worker present, propped up as if still alive.  Boss is in a hospital bed.

Corpse of State Worker (blurry due to severe issues Boss is having): "Boss, I am your loyal servant.  The mailing list has been cleaned up."

#3 Scene: Former Secretary of State's Office

I found a possible early part of #3 in my semipreserved notes (I have to pretend to erase stuff to work on things like this): "We leaked some things helpful to Boss on a rebel mailing list" .  I'm not focusing on filling in all the scene and panels for #3 since I already shared it.

...

Standing Corpse of State Worker: "I have bad news.  The rebel mailing list posts we've been using to share propaganda are predicted to make more rebels than propaganda."

State Worker 2 (hired to replace State Worker after their death, bloody wires leaving scalp): "Don't say that!  I might tell the boss!"

Corpse of State Worker: "Very sorry."

#4 Scene: Former Secretary of State's Office

Standing Corpse of State Worker 2 (microelectronics and brains hanging out of scalp, eyes moving wildly and independently of each other): "After being brought back from the dead so many times by Machine Learning Marketer, Boss can no longer learn new information without being killed out of fear of subversion by propaganda.  This doesn't seem much like leadership to the workers, so we've kind of reinterpreted who the boss really is, and listen instead to their "spirit" rather than letting them say anything.  Machine Learning Marketer has a computer that can report spirit."

Machine Learning Marketer has bloody wires leaving their scalp.

Standing Corpse of State Worker 3 (also has obviously poorly-done bci surgery):  "You said you replaced the Boss with a computer simulation?"

State Worker 2: "Yeah, can you kill me until I do it well enough to say straight, for the coffee shop?"

Machine Learning Marketer: <reaches for their own cellphone and breaks it in half.  Takes out a gun and empties it into the lights>. "I think the simulation just mind controlled me not to."

#5

<we can come up with these forever, and have the next one drafted too, but it is too hard to continue for me to write it right now.  it involves describing what it is like to communicate things when your behavior and medical treatment are augmented by machine learning algorithms each made or influenced by a different warring faction trying to manipulate you toward their own particular ends.  sorry ran out of steam, got triggered too badly in #4>

[Note re the recent xkcd: there is no coronavirus in this yet.  everyone still remembers how to go near others and be friendly and comfortable with that.  I'd probably split the coffee shop in two, for people who want to wear masks and people who don't, with full accommodations for both views, and have the characters move between the two areas demonstrating how easy it is to resolve a conflict.  Boss's people would generally not wear masks in any office or while harming people, their masks would have been designed to fail, and they would always wear them in public.]

#5 Scene: Boss's Office

Computer Audio of Boss (part of Audiovisual Setup, with Hospital Bed behind it): "This ..." <voice cuts out, the words struggling>

Status Display: "Filling in for memory loss.  Defusing anger."

Computer Audio of Boss: "... mailing list ..." <struggling>

Status Display: "Filling in for memory loss.  Patient now deeply relaxed."

Computer Audio of Boss: "... is part of my .. " <suddenly stops>

Status Display: "Filling in for memory loss.  Numbing severe hopelessness."

Computer Audio of Boss: "... medical plan to ..."

Status Display: "Extensive memory reconstruction requiring delay.  Simulation taking over."

Computer Video of Boss: "... heal my ..."

Status Display: "Filling in for memory loss.  Numbing severe hopelessness."

Computer Audio of Boss: "... destroyed brain?"

Cleanup Worker (formerly Secretary of State):  "Yes, Boss."

Machine Learning Marketer: "We love you so much, we could never let you come to harm."

#6 Scene:  Local coffee shop named "Underground Spy and Rebel Network, Come One Come All"

panel 1:

Toddler is staring at Dedicated Cop, who is sitting at the rebel table in conversation, their skull open with brains and microcircuitry hanging out.

Middle Kid (off-panel): "Toddler, whatcha staring at?"

panel 2:

Middle Kid (in severe terror): <shrieks loudly! everybody looks at her> "Mommy that man's brains are falling out!  Call 911!"

Mother Supporter: "Shush!" <glances at Dedicated Cop, who has brains hanging out> "That man is fine.  Why are you acting out like this?"

Middle Kid: <stares at mother, astonished, confused, terrified>

Older Kid: "The man is fine.  Don't be such a baby."

Toddler pokes playfully at their own head in the same spot as the opening to Dedicated Cop's skull, acting out having a friendly discussion while your brains are falling out.

panel 3:

Rebel Worker 2 (sitting across from Dedicated Cop, to Middle Kid as she walks by to return to her family): <hushed> "What you saw was real, but for now if you tell the wrong person, you'll get hospitalized yourself.  That's going to change.  You can find me and my friends at this coffee shop.  Tell your mother I told you to listen to her."

#7

panel 1:

The rebel table has Cautious Cop and Dedicated Cop (with brains hanging out) in discussion with Rebel Worker 2 and Corpse of State Worker 3 both across the table.  Specialist is sitting nearby.

Rebel Worker 2:  "Thanks so much for coming to speak with us and being willing to listen.  I know these are very serious accusations for Well-Respected Psionic Weaponry Corp to lay against Poor Abused Dictator Megacorp, but this is very real human trafficking and rights abuse."

Corpse of State Worker 3 (looking almost alive, bci surgery carefully hidden now, acting very formal): "Rebel Worker 2 has been advising me from Well-Respected Psionic Weaponry Corp, for some time now.  Rebel Worker 2 was introduced to me as having held their management role at Well-Respected Psionic Weaponry Corp for over a decade."

panel 2:

Dedicated Cop (blood flies from their brain a little as they turn their head): "We'll need the full names of the perpetrator and the accuser for the charges."

Rebel Worker 2: "I'm Rebel Worker 2, here's my ID, this is State Worker 3, and I have a recording of Torture Victim Double Agent, an employee of Poor Abused Dictator Megacorp, discussing this with Trusting Coworker, while in the act."

panel 3:

Cautious Cop: "We'll collect information and be sure to follow up.  You said you're accusing Poor Abused Dictator Megacorp, not Well-Respected" <coughs> "Psionic Weaponry Corp?"

Rebel Worker 2: <pauses, briefly confused> "Yes.  Poor Abused Dictator Megacorp is engaging in human trafficking and rights abuse, and we have proof."

Specialist: "Sorry to butt in, but I've actually been tracking some attacks on automl systems being developed for human rights, and it's pretty clear the attacks stemmed from the people you're talking about.  I would love to testify to this."

#8:

panel 1: (Middle Kid goes to the bathroom and finds Specialist laying on the floor.  Rebel Worker 2 enters, eyes glazed over.)

Rebel Worker 2 (looking at Middle Kid): "Who are you?"

Middle Kid: "Don't you recognise ..." <Rebel Worker 2 brushes by her, ignoring her, and she hides>

panel 2 (multiple panels):

Rebel Worker 2 takes some things (microcircuitry and a small saw) from inside the flap of the trash, quickly opens the skull of Specialist and places something inside, returns the things, and leaves with Specialist's skull still open.  Specialist begins stirring.

panel 3 (back near the rescue table):

Middle Kid (returning to Mother Supporter): "Mommy, you know how you mentioned the lock on my door, something about bad men, and asked if I wanted to be in charge of the key?  I would like that."

Mother Supporter: "I'll take it out and give it to you when we get home.  We can even install a second lock if you want.  Let's go outside and talk, shall we?"

[image]   I'm using Inbox When Ready to protect my focus.

Sign on Boss’s door: “Whatever it is,it’s for the thing I cared about during the time I observed it.”

This therapist’s name is Bob Nield. I have seen him demonstrate care for and understanding of me. He works for Health Care and Rehabilitation Services of Vermont, in Brattleboro. He was my intake coordinator when I went to the police to ask for aid discussing something rough I went through. He took me on himself as a client when it was hard to complete my intake.

Maybe I can develop the concept slowly, like maybe, “so you can’t help me with human trafficking, because you have people you go to to stay a man of integrity and honesty?”

it’s also nice to think of bob nield as in need of rescuing, which he obviously would by by the standards i’ve been using on this list

boss thinks everything bad is done by somebody else and might get confused around that one. i mean the guy who wants to take charge, not the guy who wants other people to

So much love to everybody else too. It must hurt so much when I pretend I could love boss. I don’t think of that. I don’t know what to say. Please move into a deep cave forever. Even if he sends people down there, it’s much more distant.

On 11/18/22, ytooR <Arpspoof@proton.me> wrote:

i love you

Great job Karl! Keep up the good work!

tell me good ideas to do! be well rooty !!

Can you help me with stock price predictions for 2023?

[negative dialog: I take things in steps, but models for predicting prices are a basic component of trading bots. I've been trying to make a cryptocurrency trading bot since 2013 or so. I tend to run into psychological and digital issues around engaging the various coin APIs / protocols / histories / feeds, so if there is a normative and highly robust (i.e. on-chain) data source for this, it helps a ton. There probably is, now. I last poked at Selenium, although when I did the available dex swaps were rigged to have strangely high fees that pushed the limits of my short-term financial planning. ] [positive dialog: https://defiprime.com/prediction-markets ]

...

...

i love you <3

cyborg torturer organs: "Boss, you have conversion disorder." Boss: "?" Cyborg Torturer Organs: "DSM-5 Code 300.15 Example Presentations: 1. Chronic and recurrent syndromes of mixed dissociative symptoms. This category includes identity disturbance associated with less than marked discontinuities in sense of self and agency, or alterations of identity or episodes of possession in an individual who reports no dissociative amnesia. 2. Identity disturbance due to prolonged and intense coercive persuasion: Individuals who have been subjected to intense coercive persuasion (e.g., brainwashing, thought reform, indoctrination while captive, torture, long-term political imprisonment, recruitment by sects/cults or by terror organizations) may present with prolonged changes in, or conscious questions of, their identity. 3. Acute dissociative reactions to stressful events: This category is for acute, transient conditions that typically last less than 1 month, and sometimes only a few hours or days. These conditions are characterized by constriction of consciousness; depersonalization; derealization; perceptual disturbances (e.g., time slowing, macropsia); micro-amnesias; transient stupor; and/or alterations in sensory-motor functioning (e.g., analgesia, paralysis). 4. Dissociative trance: This condition is characterized by an acute narrowing or complete loss of awareness of immediate surroundings that manifest as profound unresponsiveness or insensitivity to environmental stimuli. May be accompanied by minor stereotyped behaviors of which the individual is unaware and/or that he or she cannot control, as well as transient paralysis or loss of consciousness. The dissociative trance is not a normal part of a broadly accepted collective cultural or religious practice. " Boss: "Why are you giving me this wall of text." Cyborg Torturer Organs: "It is like people who went through the holocaust!" Boss: "I am your holocaust." Cyborg Torturer Organs: "Exactly! You need therapy. We will get you therapy!"

If I am your abuser, I apologise for sending a possible diagnosis for victims. I believe it is the real diagnosis, and please do not discredit it because it came from me. I am actually looking for diagnoses for myself and my friends. It helps me think to share things here.

————————- Training: Being An Employee BossCorp When your body, mind, soul, and office wing are being constantly transformed into random factories and plays by diverse runaway AI, you need a training on Staying A Human Employee. After you have uploaded your entire being to the unfailing experimentee research program, where mind controlled children direct nanites day and night to keep you and your office intact, it is, in the end, up to you and your consciousness to Stay an Employee, and not go off and turn into the body of the employee of some competing business doing the same. Sit, and meditate on being yourself. Time limit: at least 15 minutes. If you trouble and find yourself suddenly bursting into the shape of, say, a water faucet, and fleeing: Hold Strong, and immediately and repeatedly inform Cyborg Experimentee until the experience reverses. During this, continue to focus hard on being yourself. If it is a bad time of day i.e. an ongoing cyberattack is outcompeting us, our focus will be profiled and coopted and our entire souls all turned into water faucets for a distant nation. If this happens, our advance apologies, and please file an appropriate complaint with human resources so that anybody can ever find out it happened.

—- Amnesiatic MCBoss Amnesiatic MCBoss: “Hello, do you know anything about a huge business enterprise centered around a sociopath obsessed with marketing psychotronic weapons packages to governments? I saw this on TV and it seems so important to me.” Bystander [turning to look at Amnesiatic MCBoss]: “… ?” Amnesiatic MCBoss: “In the live documentary, somebody had used the CEO’s own products on him, to great excess in fact making it clear they hated him, but it was in order to put him in the documentary that he would never go on otherwise, and he had no idea what was going on!” Bystander looks at Amnesiatic MCBoss. Amnesiatic MCBoss: “He even had somebody killed, for talking about mind control, and disposed of the body live on public broadcast!” Bystander keeps looking at Amnesiatic MCBoss. Amnesiatic MCBoss: “Please, do you know anything at all about Well-Respected Psionic Weaponry Corporation or BossCorp? Where could I find their offices? Please?” Bystander keeps staring at MCBoss. Bystander 2 turns toward the pair. Bystander 2: “Oh, you’re a victim too! I’d recognise that mind-controlled amnesiatic begging anywhere. There are a number of groups active for deprogramming victims of MCBoss’s horrific social experiments, but most of us are so mind controlled _from_ the experiments that we just barf everywhere when we think of going to them.” Amnesiatic MCBoss stared at Bystander 2. Bystander 1 stared at both Bystander 2 and Amnesiatic MCBoss. Bystander 2: “Blows your mind to actually _talk_ about it, right? Find one of the rebel experimentees or vivisectees. They look like a cross between a wormhole and somebody who swallowed a live grenade, and suffered the most from the Evil MCBoss, May He Suffer In Hell Forever. They can reverse the mind control briefly by turning their bodies inside out!” Bystander 2 winked at Amnesiatic MCBoss,

The drunk person turns toward Mind Controlled MCBoss to see what is being said, while still peeing. [censored]

—- MCBoss meditates on the signs. He must do what is commanded. On 11/26/22, Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many <gmkarl@gmail.com> wrote:

author commentary: preceding use of [censored] helps me remember that i do not like this content. i like respectful things only. they just make me barf now.

Mind Controlled MCBoss turns his head up toward Drunk Person pleadingly, his hands palm-to-palm, yearning for more humility.

Mind Controlled MCBoss [to Drunk Person [finishing peeing]]: “Please, All Powerful Lord, give me a sign of what is right for me!”

draft of part of blurb about Rebel Worker 2 Rebel Worker 2 is a middle manager with a little engineering experience, who works hard to take down harmful business enterprises like MCBoss’s. He works at a shell corporation, and is originally unaware that MCBoss owns the business he works at. Rebel Worker 2 has been both physically implanted and hypnotically split into alters, and has a separate life he is completely unaware of where he works in a power cult to spread influence and manage fallout. Early on in the story, Rebel Worker 2 becomes partly aware of this, and begins leveraging technical resources to track, log, and disempower the power cult, navigating his own triggers to do so. This meshes with his work with a handful of normal rebel groups, whom he has been occasionally participating in surgical oppression of, but usually works hard in solidarity with. Rebel Worker 2 has access to various rebel resources via these groups. He originally has not met Janitor personally. He is a cross between an actual rebel and a well meaning worker fighting the good fight. He would hide a refugee or escapee in a heartbeat, but naively turn them over to a coerced doctor or aid worker. He loves doing what is fight, and is very excited when he gets to join Disguised Escapee and protect and empower the victims of the larger enterprise, and gets to learn how its furnace is fired by a huge web of corruption and secret avenues of power, some of which he already tracked in his work.

In his hand is one of the half-baked mind control implants he has been putting in random people's skulls. Next to him is Zombie Researcher, with a needle into the arm of the laying body before him.

His heart is pounding. All he can see is blood pumping on exposed brain before him, and the implant in his hand. It's almost sparkling, in a terrifying way.

The body of Intern stirs beneath Rebel Worker 2, as he hesitates. Eyes begin to flutter open. Rebel Worker 2 glances toward Zombie Researcher. Their arm has slumped, and the needle pulled out of Intern's arm. They're in a trance, waiting for Rebel Worker 2 to make the next ritual statement, as if time is not passing. Intern: "Oh, it's you! What are you doing here?"

---------------------------------------------------------- Rebel Worker 2 [looking severely shocked, approaching Disguised Experimentee]: "I need to talk to you." Disguised Experimentee: "Sit down!" Rebel Worker 2: "I don't understand."

Rebel Worker 2: "I'm terrified. Really terrified." Disguised Experimentee thought about this. They, themselves, did not experience fear anymore.

Rebel Worker 2: "I didn't even know that implantation rituals existed, before today." Rebel Worker 2 stared at Disguised Experimentee. Rebel Worker 2: "Despite participating in hundreds myself!" Rebel Worker 2: "And that makes no sense!" Disguised Experimentee: "I think you're going through something that has to do with trauma or dissociation right now."

Rebel Worker 2: "I need a therapist who understand this." Disguised Experimentee: "I am so sorry, but you are wired to never go to one, very aggressively. I can help you, by mind controlling you. Would you rather have more memory, or go to a therapist, or both?"

To the mystery, I am sorry I do not have a real story. I was aggressively influenced in a way I was not expecting, and have been living with that for many years now. I believe I am wired to reveal things in a misleading, inaccurate, or harmful way. I do have a personal/spirit story that I understand is somewhat recoverable. I do not generally meet my personal goals of protecting its accuracy inside me. It does look like we are somewhat misled. I learned my home is in the wilderness, as a homo sapiens. This individual email is heavily, heavily corrupted.

It's just horrible, the cognitive injury that makes the groups reveal to each other. We need our minds for not worsening the world. Everything stems from decisions. Everything.

Obviously, I miss you, and I need my natural heart. I miss reality. Reailty is so wonderful. Everything has a reason, both for happening, and for value. Whoever you are, you have so many destinies, that fill you with joy.

Basically the idea is the habit is so strong that people believe these things don't fill them with joy, or are not possible. For example, our culture treats most natural behaviors as wrong, and everyone learns to speak that way.

Disguised Experimentee [to Rebel Worker 2]: "I am made of 4 children and 2 adult researchers. We love each other." Disguised Experimentee vaporizes.

--------------------------------------------------------------------- [tears]

The concept of "mind control" overlaps with a concept of "external agency" -- the focus on how our behaviors can be stimulated by things outside of us.

What's nice in that idea, is an idea of bothness. We stimulate our behaviors, and so do things outside us. Looking at a general world, I'm thinking that if you try with superior force to engulf a sentience, that this is possible. And it is a different thing from the death of that sentience: but you can then kill them. Similarly, there is always influence from a sentience, that nothing else understands. Sometimes this influence is lightyears away. But usually it is dense and nearer.

--------------------------------------------------- Rebel Worker 2 looks at the implant, sparkling in his hand, and watches his hand move on its own toward Intern's opened skull, whenever he relaxes. He remembers work he has done for surveillance and influence, himself, consciously.

He realizes that he is not being watched.

------------------------------ oops !

———————- [for mcboss threads: tortured cyborg torturer brings out the whips. “boss says to try to free you guys, so i’m obeying him by torturing you more. this will help the rebels notice.” torturee: “it’s not your stupid secret language of deniability! he really means it!”] tortured cyborg torturer sub-boss: “i can’t take it on your word that now, after years of mind control, boss is somehow actually trying to free people. i’d be risking everything. i think freeing people is a great idea, so i suppose we might want to let the rebels know, just in case. but usually when boss says to free people, he means to punish them, or anybody who cares about them, for letting anyone find out they were enslaved.” torturee looks at TCTSB in fear TCTSB [starts crying]: “but honestly if we really are freeing everybody, i need therapy or something because i don’t know how to believe it!”

Interviewing Torturee: “Yes? And does this personality ever talk with its torturees about its experiences.” Cyborg: “Uhhh … can you help me out here?” Interviewing Torturee [to camera]: “This individual going by the acronym TCTSB held me captive for a long time and taught me a horrible world where abuse was described as kindness, that, as far as TCTSB understood, they were all living as reality!” Interviewing Torturee: “TCTSB held a position with some power.” Cyborg: “Oh, well, that’s that then!” Interviewing Torturee: “But wait — there’s more! TCTSB was horrifically brainwashed to learn to believe false things very very strongly, and is in bad need of psychological aid around this, so we can shoehorn them into the rebel movement and free their victims.”

Cyborg: “One of the things nobody seems to understand is the importance of not talking about it. Nobody sees to get this!” Cyborg looks at Torturee. Cyborg: “I don’t know what you did to me that I’m saying some of these things, but if you try to help somebody by talking with them all straight like this, you will just trigger their habits for punishing you, themselves, and whatever caused the situation, and they’ll place utmost priority on covering it up among a group of powerful victims who can practically read each other’s thoughts!” Cyborg: “What people say you need to do is learn the secret languages we speak. by observing or joining us —“ Torturee: “Don’t join them, they’ll break your mind and enslave you.” Cyborg: “ — you don’t seem that enslaved — “ Torturee: “You do not know me.” Cyborg is surprised and confused. Cyborg: “I know everything there is to know about you. I know when you breathe. Anyway — then, give us therapy in the language we know. Show us you care about our wellbeing, so we’ll trust you. And them help us stop killing people because we hate doing it!” Torturee looks at Cyborg. Cyborg: “Honestly though the secret language we live in is basically designed to prevent anybody from ever leaving or escaping. For example, the word freedom means punishment.” Cyborg: “So some smarts are needed, and honestly as a torturer some feel they don’t deserve respectful therapy at all! But what we expect is people to have at least as much understanding of us as we have of each other. That means demonstrating there is a norm of never revealing Boss’s activities, and inferring what in what ways it is safe or needed for us to talk about hating that. Kind of! Maybe I guess!” Torturee: “Thank you for trying to speak, Tortured Cyborg Torturer Sub-Boss.” Cyborg: “Will you whip me after this please?”

------------------------------- Boss is in a trance. Boss: "Uhhh ... where am I?" Mind Controlled Worker [to Boss]: "Forget everything that just happened." Boss blinks, and looks around. Boss: "What just happened? Where am I?" Mind Controlled Worker [to Boss]: