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Re: [Cryptography] Cryptocurrency: CME Approved, Coin Paychecks, FED, OpenBazaar ZEC BCH
by grarpamp 03 Dec '17

03 Dec '17

Re: crypto investing, social, politics > I am concerned. > A lot of money is going into Bitcoin. According to market cap other cryptos are receiving 44% of the fiat money input. (Though note that market cap is a bogus metric.) > as long as the investors are solvent. > But the current crop aren't. A lot of that money is borrowed. If users don't evaluate and/or overextend themselves that's their own fault. Help them evaluate. > And now banks are borrowing to hold bitcoin in their portfolios.... If able to borrow from govt / users, that's tricky. If they borrow at 0%, no problem, sell the crypto and repay. If they borrow at > 0% to enrich themselves, you shouldn't be entrusting your fiat to such entities who thereby devalue and possibly lose and take it. Not that it matters anyways since every fiat spent into crypto devalues that fiat ala minimally forex shift. A couple Golden Rules of fixed quantity cryptos: - Never sell for any amount less than your buy price minus any amount granted as disposable risk. - Hodl, at least until you don't have to anymore, or adoption happens. Would you accept less than a dollar for your dollar? No! Yet you accept it every day due to money printing inflation. If you hodl fiat, you will lose value... there is no point at which you can execute a stop loss on fiat, except by move to non inflating asset, or grow it and try to beat whatever prime and other rates, taxes, etc. Many cryptos are non inflating (aka: not lossy), and are currently also high growth. What's interesting is that borrowing markets are already developing among cryptos themselves, even extending out to fiat. > A lot of the institutions holding that bitcoin for their customers don't > have anything like the amount of USD on hand that they'd need to cash > In order to lay hands on that amount of USD, of course they'd have to > sell Bitcoin. Show us a contract from any such institution stating that such institution itself will guarantee and pay fiat on demand. Exchanges don't do that, they're neutral, their order books do. Wallet providers (aka: banks) don't do that, their insurers do. Insurers don't do that, because they're woefully insolvent aganst systemic / mass / excess casualty. Including these... http://c7.alamy.com/comp/C4B932/money-changers-carry-loads-of-low-value-not… https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/hyperinflation-weimar-republic-1922/ Users hold their private keys against counterparty default. > the customers out in case something happened that shook their confidence Most crypto is ownership, not debt. Provided the crypto, protocols, and network ops are strong... there is no internal confidence event. Regulation will cause most external confidence events. Until the swiss bank in your phone absorbs, overpowers, and governs regulators and other influences causing them. > A large sell-off in a thinly traded asset would cause a market shock. What do you think last months massive buy in was? Exchanges and connections tanked because they were chumps and/or jammed by regulatory limits. > The customers would get less money than expected for their coin due to > the market shock. No, they get exactly what's under their mouse button when they decide to click it. > they were "cheated", might prompt more customers to want to sell. They were cheated at fiat debt, not crypto owned... a prudent investors has no current reason to sell crypto. The promise of crypto and the unwritten compact of its users is that there is no reason to sell, only to adopt and use it... https://i.pinimg.com/564x/38/ab/52/38ab529815f55064db140e235a8d8820--blue-p… The ever growing many thousands of places around the world accepting crypto prove this theory is working and will continue to do so. > intended to be something where debt wasn't possible. Again, hidden debt, in an open ledger crypto, isn't possible. You either own it or you don't. None of this precludes the issuance of crypto loans. > But when people are in debt to own something and... [spiral] Who voted for and invested in a resultant scheme that let that happen? Trying to write around the failures of all of govts, fiat, and the users like this... is a failure in itself. Don't do that. > It's starting to sound a lot like those funny mortgages people > were writing in 2007. Yes, the fiat schemes are sounding like that, the crypto badger itself is just fine as always and simply doesn't give a shit. Own some, without taking on debt to do it.

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Community Guerrilla Mesh Networks
by grarpamp 03 Dec '17

03 Dec '17

Detroit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1B0u6nvcTsI Doe Bay https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBiBLG9wnDU https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=community+mesh+networks

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Re: Magic Money: The Bitcoin Revolution (Documentary)
by g2s 03 Dec '17

03 Dec '17

-------- Original message --------From: jim bell <jdb10987(a)yahoo.com> Date: 12/1/17 10:36 AM (GMT-08:00) To: grarpamp <grarpamp(a)gmail.com>, cypherpunks(a)cpunks.org, g2s <g2s(a)riseup.net> Subject: Re: Magic Money: The Bitcoin Revolution (Documentary) On Friday, December 1, 2017, 8:42:41 AM PST, g2s <g2s(a)riseup.net> wrote: >Hahaha! Imagine the mayhem if the US dollar lost 20% of its value overnight. Bitcoin's potential worthiness has been maneuvered by the same scumbags who ruined the financial markets with flash trading to be a Pyramid Scam only truly stupid people would believe in. Or scam artists like the libertard shits infesting this list. >Bitcoin loses over a fifth of its value in less than 24 hours Bitcoin loses over a fifth of its value in less than 24 hours× I'm not going to let you forget that as a consequence of my October 7, 20177:00PM (Prague time) Prague speech, Bitcoin went from about $4300 to $5800 in six days. Raising the value of all Bitcoin by $24 billion. And don't forget: Well before that, I TOLD the CP list to "Buy Bitcoin" Jim Bell And remember folks. Capitalism and Anarchism, as it is with socialism, are mutually exclusive. There IS NO SUCH THING as "Anarcho-capitalism". Why? Because anarchism is based on people freely exchanging according to need, not "free markets" exchanging according to greed. Rr

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Enron-type coverups do not typically exist
by Ryan Carboni 03 Dec '17

03 Dec '17

Most coverups don't really involve people grabbing reams of documents and forcing them down shredders (although the Iran-Contra case comes to mind). Instead they often involve deceiving their participants as to the necessity as to continuing the coverup and the ongoing actions. Let's call this a JFK-style coverup. The most noteworthy JFK-style coverup would be the LAPD police cadet scandal. (perhaps the Hollywood sex scandals would be better, but I suppose in retrospect there is no good reason to lock a door from your desk) http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-lapd-cadets-thefts-timeline-201… (excerpts for maximal understanding) ”When you look back, you can say, ‘Well, how come no one noticed that?’” said Frank. “We have a lot of young-looking officers. … There’s so many officers that are looking like that, we’re at that stage where it’s not that odd until after the fact.” ... Cain’s attorney, Bill Seki, has denied his client had any knowledge of the thefts. Seki has repeatedly accused the LAPD of using Cain as a “scapegoat” and contends other officers were aware that the vehicles had been taken. “They’re still trying to throw it at him, the easy target, protecting others that would have been aware of it,” he said. ---- Basically he is pointing out the disingenuity of it all. I believe the ACLU too has been disingenuous, and so has Black Lives Matter. They support increased numbers of prosecutions of police brutality cases, and yet so many times these cases yield not guilty verdicts. Even in the case where a police officer shot a man because he smelled like weed (nevermind that burnt weed is not that different a smell from industrial chemicals). I just wonder how this could happen. It is such a mystery. All these millions. Going no where. Can't figure it out. Such a mystery. Insurmountable. Really curious. Don't get it. Beyond me.

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Crypto Documentary: Banking On Bitcoin
by grarpamp 03 Dec '17

03 Dec '17

Not since the invention of the Internet itself has there been such a controversial technological creation as Bitcoin. Bitcoin is the most disruptive invention since the internet, and now an ideological battle is underway between fringe utopists and mainstream capitalism. Bitcoin's early pioneers sought to blur the lines of sovereignty and the financial status quo. After years of underground development, Bitcoin grabbed the attention of a curious public – as well as the ire of the regulators the technology had subverted. Yet after landmark arrests of prominent cyber criminals, Bitcoin, which actually surged on election night, still faces its most severe adversary, the very banks it was built to destroy. Trailer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmxqlSevtkQ Full movie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc41H8oqPik Website http://gravitasventures.com/banking-on-bitcoin/

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Taxes: We Take Them... You Perfectly Legal Advantage Discoverers... Over The Slow Lane
by grarpamp 03 Dec '17

03 Dec '17

https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/7h18kr/us_senate_passes_sweeping_tax… https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/7h32pv/shouting_pay_your_taxes_… https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/11/comcast-quietly-drops-promise-n…

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Re: [Cryptography] Cryptocurrency: CME Approved, Coin Paychecks, FED, OpenBazaar ZEC BCH
by grarpamp 03 Dec '17

03 Dec '17

On Sat, Dec 2, 2017 at 4:29 PM, Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> wrote: > Didn't Bitcoin just plummet by 20%? It was all over the business pages Cryptocurrency seems a different underlying perspective... https://i.redd.it/yupauofcel101.jpg > I wouldn't invest in anything that I couldn't exchange for the shiny stuff; > isn't that called "fungible" or something? No, that's called ability to barter, often occurring on third party exchange, which is specialized market in market economy... https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Fungibility https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Barter https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Exchange_(organized_market) https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_(economics) https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_economy There should be little problem exchanging retail amounts of crypto, at minimum there are... https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_currency_exchange > Precious metals "should" never go down Not really, and since they're put to market, they do all the time. In fact, everyone's precious Gold has *lost* 31% of its spot since July 2011, was a complete bear from 1980 to 2001, and only went up a puny 7.4x in 11y to 2011, not even a third doubling. For 28 out of 47 years since 1971, it lost, at least in terms of USD. The IMF killed off the last gold backed fiat (Swiss) in 1999. https://www.bloomberg.com/markets/commodities/futures/metals http://www.kitco.com/ https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold Here is a price chart of a new [crypto] currency being adopted... https://blockchain.info/charts/market-price?timespan=all You can play around with historical forex charts online to compare behaviour of other currency sets.. > diamonds are only as valuable as deBeers wants them to be (or Then change the price.... prospect and stake your own claims, switch to lab / simulated versions or other shiny dirt rocks, or quit buying them as bling.

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Cryptocurrency: CME Approved, Coin Paychecks, FED, OpenBazaar ZEC BCH
by grarpamp 02 Dec '17

02 Dec '17

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/7guuzz/cme_approved_to_launch_fut… https://twitter.com/CNBC/status/936582388347539456 CME approved to launch crypto futures trading on December 18th. https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/7gu7ow/yesss_my_boss_just_decided… Getting salary in crypto https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/7guh08/this_bitcoin_chart_is_insa… Printing money https://github.com/OpenBazaar/openbazaar-go/pull/775 https://twitter.com/openbazaar Now with Zcash and Bitcoin Cash

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Re: Magic Money: The Bitcoin Revolution (Documentary)
by g2s 02 Dec '17

02 Dec '17

-------- Original message --------From: juan <juan.g71(a)gmail.com> Date: 12/2/17 9:12 AM (GMT-08:00) To: cypherpunks(a)lists.cpunks.org Subject: Re: Magic Money: The Bitcoin Revolution (Documentary) On Sat, 02 Dec 2017 07:58:24 -0800 g2s <g2s(a)riseup.net> wrote: > As i was saying. Youre just another gambling scumbag capitalist who > apparently doeant know what the word "currency" means. >> right, bitcoin isn't much of a currency yet cause it's not widely accepted. It never will be as long as its a gambling casino. Do you ever think it will stabilize enough as long as libertard scumbags and the scumbag coders who were responsible for flash trading indexes of derivatives of futures can make bank on it in REAL CURRENCY? ROTF no. Not ever. People like Bell and co have the ethics of fleas, and other parasites. Something i suspect TimMay got out of the industry too early to see. And besides the league he was playing in was much different than 99.9% of people in the industry today. That .1% is still there, but they tend not to be gamblers. Their minds are doing other sorts of calculations. > Bitcoin and > the like are OBVIOUSLY a Pyramid Scam brought to you by the same > Flash Trading ethics that destroyed your markets and economies.. >> that's a half truch. At least some people buy bitcoins because of its good properties while other people buy just because they are greedy, brain dead gamblers. As long as the gamblers outnumber the people who would like it to be a stable currency the situation remains. >> although bitcoin is a form of 'fiat currency' it has more legitimate value than the competing garbage money produced by government Legitimate value of a poker chip without anything tangible backing it. Not even a casino whose property you can sue to take a piece of, or a one-arm bandit as payoff to put in your den. Rr > GoldmanSachs and their scumbag financial friends PWN U Or for all I > know, you work for them and thats why You're peddling their snake > oil. Rr

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Re: Magic Money: The Bitcoin Revolution (Documentary)
by g2s 02 Dec '17

02 Dec '17

C -------- Original message --------From: grarpamp <grarpamp(a)gmail.com> Date: 12/1/17 4:01 PM (GMT-08:00) To: cypherpunks(a)cpunks.org Subject: Re: Magic Money: The Bitcoin Revolution (Documentary) >> Hahaha! Imagine the mayhem if the US dollar lost 20% of its value >> overnight. Bitcoin's potential worthiness has been maneuvered by the same >> scumbags who ruined the financial markets with flash trading to be a >> Pyramid Scam only truly stupid people would believe in. Or scam artists like >> the libertard shits infesting this list. > >> Bitcoin loses over a fifth of its value in less than 24 hours >> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-global-markets-bitcoin/bitcoin-loses-ove… >> >> Tim May was wrong. Btc is Pwnd. > > I'm not going to let you forget that as a consequence of my October 7, > 20177:00PM (Prague time) Prague speech, Bitcoin went from about $4300 to > $5800 in six days. Raising the value of all Bitcoin by $24 billion. > > And don't forget: Well before that, I TOLD the CP list to "Buy Bitcoin" Article was irrelavant and old the minute it was posted. Cryptocurrency doesn't give a fuck and will continue to rise. Traders in that vein are ready to buy such dips, and 20% is normal. As i was saying. Youre just another gambling scumbag capitalist who apparently doeant know what the word "currency" means. Bitcoin and the like are OBVIOUSLY a Pyramid Scam brought to you by the same Flash Trading ethics that destroyed your markets and economies.. GoldmanSachs and their scumbag financial friends PWN U Or for all I know, you work for them and thats why You're peddling their snake oil. Rr

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