- cypherpunks - lists.cpunks.org

foundations for sanity
by Zenaan Harkness 05 Sep '16

05 Sep '16

(PS: Feel free to s/right/my_PC_term_of_choice/g ! Clarity good, whilst sidetracking to the point of burying the conversation is subversive to our collective and mutually beneficial intersts ! ) Perhaps this thread might be most useful for summarising/ sifting/ poignantizing the foundations we hold as important, and create separate threads laterwards to discuss any particular foundation, once we have at least a modicum of shared common agreement on the foundations. Here follows a first rough draft for: Foundations for Sanity - collective responsibility: We have a duty of care to one another and to nature, when doing anything in life, to take reasonable steps to avoid and to minimise the likelihood of harm to others and of harm to the environment. - individual responsibility We have a right to make all choices in respect of our own individual safety, health, reproduction and living / survival in general. Examples include the wearing of a bicycle helmet whilst cycling, wearing seat belts, rock climbing and skydiving, and eating takeaway food three times a day. - respect for the freedom, inherent dignity, rights and sovereignty of every human Although we may 'punish' or otherwise un-sanction our fellow society dwellers who enage in activities in ways which fail to demonstrate reasonable consideration for the safety of others, we shall limit our collective enforcement to not include activities which infringe no soul other than the individual soul himself. - the right for individuals to associate, or to not associate, with other individuals, at any and all levels (local, 'state', 'national') - the right to survive / live / thrive ("pursue happiness"), implying and including the following rights (add others as relevant of course): - the right to travel (work, find food, find a mate) (i.e. travel in ways commonly used to travel, e.g. drive a car) - the right to collect rainwater - the right to grow any plant, for any purpose which purpose does not endanger others nor infringe their individual sovereign rights - the right to keep and herd animals - the right to build dwellings and other buildings for our own chosen purposes - the right to think any thought (may become important in the near future) - the right to speak any words - the right to communicate on all political topics * The naming and writing in any foundation statement, and any particular right or foundation, shall not be taken to limit the expression, understanding nor intent of any other stated foundation. (And here we descend into the murky world of qualifications, slippery slopes and endless argument... I do not know how to avoid this part.)

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Suggestion to list admins for warning/disclaimer on the web for new subscribers
by Georgi Guninski 05 Sep '16

05 Sep '16

The wikipedia page on cypherpunks have nothing to do with the current state of this list. History gets rewritten (from experience). I suggest after list discussion the list admins to put a warning on the list web page. Something along the lines of (clearly needs rewriting): ==== The list is not it used to be and has nothing to do with the wikipedia page. The list has spooks, paid trolls, other similar whores and possibly crackpots. Some of them post actively, others rarely. Their motivation might include: * social engineering * manipulating opinions * profiting from the past reputation of the term cypherpunk * killing the list "What You See is NOT What You Get" Use common sense when reading or posting to the list. ====

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Re: individual responsibility - was Re: Nationalism vs Globalism
by Mark Steward 05 Sep '16

05 Sep '16

On 4 Sep 2016 01:53, "Mirimir" <mirimir(a)riseup.net> wrote: > > On 09/03/2016 05:25 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: ... > > What kind of conversations are worthy of this list? > > Maybe this is just too obvious, but consider what "cypherpunk" means. > The term was coined in the "punk rock" era. So by analogy, cypherpunk is > about co-opting crypto against the system. So that's what this list is > for, I believe. It's not a list for social/political/economic theory or > the fucking US presidential race or sucking Putin's dick or whatever. > Also cyberpunk. Imagine a dystopic future of lonely, once angry, now tired individuals who lash out at any suggestion they are wrong. Back in the 90s they might have been nudged to tinker with crypto and empowering the world, but instead they spent their time seeing how many times they could fit "fuck" and "retard" into an email post. Mark

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Nationalism vs Globalism
by Zenaan Harkness 05 Sep '16

05 Sep '16

The new dichotomy, Nationalism vs Globalism. This is how the current USA election debate is now framed it seems, see for example: Hillary’s ‘Racism’ Speech, And the Stunning Emergence of The New Left and Right "Old Lady Yells At Internet" "A titanic struggle between nationalism and globalism is playing out in the American elections" http://russia-insider.com/en/moment-reckoning-has-come-american-political-s… Left out of this debate of course are other genuine and alternative foundations such as a swing towards individual sovereignty and anarchism, which some name as direct democracy (perhaps a branch of the theory of anarchism/ anarchy/ political anarchy?). The powers that be of course are pushing very aggressively for globalism - their One World Order or New World Order, of course with America at the helm and dictating the terms. But individual sovereignty seems to strike fear into the hearts of oligarchs and global power brokers, since they still frame the debate as a black and white dichotomy between globalism and nationalism - this is their preferred dichotomy, attempting to ensure that individual sovereignty, politically empowering the individual, does not get a look in on this debate. We the disempowered, the non monied, will take nationalism over globalism, and "the elites" will take nationalism over individual sovereigntism. So except that the American voting machines are controlled by the existing powers that be in America and institute an entirely corrupt outcome, with "everything overall touch and go for the results, who can say?" and a "key swing state" "just nudges Hillary over the line" (ever seen this sort of corruption before?) - aka the usual corruption of American elections, there's a real chance for nationalism to prevail in the disgraced olde Ewe Ess of America. Unfortunately it seems the public consciousness is fully entrenched in dichotomies "gotta have a political party, and play the corrupt game, if we gonna get a different outcome". Can these disempowering and unnecessary or "false" dichotomies be busted or changed somehow in the public dialogue?

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Re: Continual Violation of List Charter
by Mark Steward 05 Sep '16

05 Sep '16

On 4 Sep 2016 22:13, "juan" <juan.g71(a)gmail.com> wrote: > ... > > > "Form your own group, your own mailing list, with a catchy > > > name, something like "The Privacy Education Foundation," or > > > "The American Civil Liberties Union" (whoops, taken), or > > > "The Society for the Preservation of Cyberspatial Liberty." > > > " > > > "Evolution in action. The market in action. A better > > > approach than trying to get the name and the charter changed." > > > > A market in action... > > My point is that the CHARTER of the mailing list is supposed to > be LIBERTARIAN. > I don't think you have a clue what libertarian means. > > > I even found time to > > correct Tim May, who cried uncle sort of. ;-) I happened to have > > personal knowledge of that situation. > > > > I wasn't mature enough to philosophize much then. > > > And you think you are know? Do you know the etymology of the > word "philosophy", I suppose? > > Philo-sophy means love of knowdlege/wisdom. See, the requirement > for philosophy is not 'maturity'(whatever you mean by that). > The requirement for philosophy is the love of truth and > intellectual honesty. > I see you're authoritarian about language too. Philosophy's history, much like Scientology's, owes more to narcissism than etymology. Mark

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Re: Open Public Notice re Tor Inc and Jacob Applebaum
by Ryan Carboni 04 Sep '16

04 Sep '16

The timeline of events will be fascinating to look as information drips out over time. In May, the Tor Project went from the FBI is harassing our developers, to Appelbaum is a rapist. Tor is showing it's age though, the 2013 botnet showed that Tor was less than optimal in it's design https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/9683 Of course making Tor more like nginx or Caddy would require a total rewrite, worker processes have the advantage of parallelization of crypto. One cannot expect their browser to be secure if it renders javascript, graphics, or media. QUIC uses the minimum of public headers and does not retransmit the same packet number, would allow for a packet switched design. Of course, the cheapest way to defeat Tor would be to DDOS it. How much would it cost to have several thousand of VPSes connect to each other over Tor and download /dev/zero/ to /dev/null/? Sometimes the best route is passivism.

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Continual Violation of List Charter
by grarpamp 04 Sep '16

04 Sep '16

On Sat, Sep 3, 2016 at 4:38 AM, Zenaan Harkness <zen(a)freedbms.net> wrote: > shit and get down to business on analysing political philosphies, to > find practical approaches for our modern societies full of schooled This list is *not* for that, and it's not a list to longtalk food recipes, or anything else either. Lack of moderation is not license for people to come here and setup their own offtopic shops, grossly, willfully and continually disrespecting what it says on the tin and the history of the list long before you [1], to the tune of many tens to hundreds of messages per month, especially without tying it into that. If you want to longtalk anything other than that to the point that the charter would need a whole new section just for you, GO FIND OR MAKE YOUR OWN FUCKING LIST FOR THAT. [1] "The Cypherpunks mailing list is a mailing list for discussing cryptography and its effect on society." There are reasonable relateds within the realm of "cypherpunk" to include *its* computing, tools, privacy, surveillance, law, news, literature / art / society, hacking / making, organizations and projects, politics, tech, science, solutions, crime, etc, etc. The occaisional short lived foray under self regulation and restraint into untied topics of possible interest to readerbase might be considered ok, however NOT to the extent that it's been abused ongoing. If you're wondering why the "thousands" of people on the list aren't "analysing political philosophies" with you, it's because YOU'RE FUCKING OFFTOPIC, THEY DON'T WANT TO, and they've BLOCKED YOUR ASS. But for new people hoping to find a real or even passable cypherpunk list, and before even joining and blocking you, but just looking over archives, your noise, and the angry abusive trolls, kills it for them. Have some respect for that. The lot of you. Or get off here.

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The NSA’s stash of digital holes is a threat to everyone online
by Cecilia Tanaka 04 Sep '16

04 Sep '16

The NSA’s stash of digital holes is a threat to everyone online. < https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/04/nsa-stash-digital-hol… > -- "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

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[WAR] US Peace Council returns from Syria, a country fighting “invasion by the most powerful country in the world”
by Zenaan Harkness 04 Sep '16

04 Sep '16

** Must see video: US Peace Council returns from Syria, a country fighting “invasion by the most powerful country in the world” (http://theduran.com/must-see-video-us-peace-council-returns-syria-county-fi…) ------------------------------------------------------------ must-see-video-us-peace-council The campaign to confuse the American people has been intense, but one thing is sure, Syria is fighting an invasion, not a civil war. The post Must see video: US Peace Council returns from Syria, a country fighting “invasion by the most powerful country in the world” (http://theduran.com/must-see-video-us-peace-council-returns-syria-county-fi…) appeared first on The Duran (http://theduran.com) .

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4096 bit SSL keys
by John 04 Sep '16

04 Sep '16

Speaking within the context of https SSL certs, is there any real value to a key/cert above 2048 bits? The reason I asked: updating a few certs at office recently I nuked an older F5 LTM device by installing a 4096 bit key/cert pair - the load on the appliance (Linux based) shot up from less than 1 to about 30 and became so excruciatingly slow it was nearly impossible to back the change out (web GUI and ssh were both nearly non-responsive).. On modern hardware, including modern F5s, this problem doesn't exist... but from what reading I've done it seems 4096 buys you very little anyway ? With a theoretical quantum computer attacking is there any significant gain with the bigger key size? Curious what others think.... John -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

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