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bantering with punk was Re: What advantage does Signal protocol have over basic public key encryption?
by Karl 01 Feb '21

01 Feb '21

>> > So, I think your understanding of so misleadingly called 'perfect >> > forward >> > secrecy' isn't right. >> >> I don't remember the protocol really well to hold up my end here, > > this isn't only about the signal protocol but about any protocol that > advertises 'perfect forward secrecy' and uses 'public key cryptography' of > the kind that's vulnerable to attacks using 'quantum computers'. Do you mean that it is incredibly misleading to advertise cryptographic safety when there is obviously an increasing degree of unpublished research that counters it? I'm not sure what you're saying here. Wouldn't it be fine to just add a note that those are cryptographic terms, and do not technically guarantee perfect privacy in the face of time travel? >> and i don't really trust that you're relating forthrightly to revisit it >> much. > > yeah well. I think I explained the basic problem twice. You don't need to > 'trust' me but do your own research. Yeesh you removed the quote and stated you had explained it already. I don't remember what we were talking about, but it was clear that if you had done research it yielded very different information than what I see. >> does signal use diffie-helman key exchange? > > yes it does. You're the one pimping it, you shoud know. Blargh, links help here. Okay, my best memory is that you were worried about a key exchange compromise in the face of a website on how dh is dangerous. I'll look it up right now. https://weakdh.org/ is only about SSL and specifically chosen prime numbers. These are implementation errors, not compromises of the protocol or the primtiive. I vaguely recall there is something more serious regarding dh exchange, dunno. What's relevant is that signal is far better than the plain text email we are communicating over right now. It is incredibly helpful to drink not enough water when you are very thirsty. >> does it do it in a >> way that website describes as known to be vulnerable? > > > ...see your first unfounded claim about 'perfect' secrecy. DH is > 'vulnerable' to 'advances in solving the discrete log problem' bla bla. Not only that, once you research personal teleportation devices door locks become very vulnerable, too. It's not hard to make a personal teleportation device. All you need is a bunch of enslaved makerspaces, economists, physicists, and inspirational coaches. Get them to organise themselves into groups based on their skills and passions and force them to focus on inventing personal teleportation for a decade straight. Have a daily check-in where everybody debates whether or not what they are currently doing is the most effective thing they could be doing, for personal teleportation. Also I have a commodity here whose value raises more than the interest rate on loans, every three years or so, so mathematically we should be able to steal all the money from the whole planet. It's growth is reducing, but too slowly to validate physics. >> > What I think is important to understand is that signal is a >> > centralized >> > service and the owners are not to be trusted, at all. Moxie morlonpoke >> >> That's the whole point of end-to-end encryption. > > > Not sure what you mean. So called end to end encryption only encrypts > messages. It doesn't magically solve 'traffic analysis' problems. Neither does decentralisation. I was responding to your mention of centralisation. It is weird that signal uses centralised servers. Maybe to reduce development load. It's always sketchy the compromises made by communities struggling to effect change. It's possible it's just communication issues. The point is that we need an ANONYMOUS BLOCKCHAIN-BASED MESSENGER TO REPLACE SIGNAL in these times of disruption, and signal would pay anybody to contribute the backend in a way they accept ;P >> > perfectly fits the profile of 'progressive' pentagon agent. So maybe >> > the >> >> The only people who believe these people are real agents, and not just >> people secretly drugged and abused by agents, are acting more as the >> agents than they are. > > > bullshit. Yeah? Which is more productive, arguing on a list where nobody replies to what you say or making software that increases privacy? >> > 'end to end encryption' works, but signal remains a US metadata spying >> > operation, 'endorsed' by the likes of the 'ceo' of twatter. Hard to get >> > a >> > bigger red flag than that by the way. >> >> Nah it's more like a bunch of people subjected to international spying >> operations figuring out the charades work that lets them escape a >> little bit. Also, free technology for others! > > > more bullshit. Yeesh! Signal can poison our souls with technology, and dangerously reveal everything we do to the people who want to hurt us (BECAUSE IT RUNS ON A PHONE, NOT BECAUSE OF ITS PROTOCOL), without being some intentional attempt by cryptographers to harm the universe. Before signal people were using NOTHING. NO ENCRYPTION AT ALL. Some of them were using encryption where a corporation and government could freely decryption EVERYTHING, and was lying about it. SOME of them. Caps intended with love and care and embarrassment. I don't deserve to write in caps. >> >> When they say "metadata that the signal servers have >> >> access to" or "does not prevent a company from retaining information" >> >> they are talking about much smaller bits of data than people usually >> >> talk about. >> > >> > .....I think it's rather clear what 'metadata' we're talking about. >> > Signal >> > knows who talks to who and when. >> >> It doesn't sound like it's clear to you. Metadata lives in bytes that >> travel over network protocols and are analysed by algorithms. Anyway, yeah, PGP doesn't encrypt the message subjects and recipients. I don't recall the protocol well, but the way the ratchet protocol works there was a lot more possibility for encrypting per-message metadata. >> Somebody has probably upgraded the concept now that deepfakes and such >> are normal. >> > > what are you talking about Well, I don't know the cryptographic terms, but you're possibly talking about information that can be extracted from messaging by algorithms, like traffic analysis, as comparable to metadata, like the subject on an email or the location tagged on a jpeg photo. Nowadays machine learning is _way_ better at profiling stuff than just traffic analysis. With deepfakes, there is a research war between making fake media, and identifying that media is fake. That's incredibly dangerous. Both groups will split off into private research and nobody will know what is going on, a handful of people believing they do. The research should be around reducing the reasons that people make deepfakes, not around identifying them. But since we can automatically identify whether a photo has very subtle attributes that only happen in reality, while people are actively researching preventing that, we can probably identify who a person is by what kind of things were bought at stores near them, and such, too, because people trying to be anonymous do not have datacenters full of gpus researching how to stay that way.

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KARL Semich is a fucking liar
by professor rat 31 Jan '21

31 Jan '21

Personally, I protect Truth with my life, and I have been severely > harmed such that I lie all the time. That is the truth of it. ...' Sometimes he may accidentally not lie.

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Is this list worth subscribing ?
by professor rat 31 Jan '21

31 Jan '21

Coders apply to Perry Metzgers curated list called " Coderpunk ' don't they? Sooner they all fuck off from here the better.

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[spam] Being part of a group mind made up of a bunch of people trained by AIs to respond to stimulus in a knee-jerk fashion and form imaginary beliefs and feelings inside themselves about what is going on
by Karl 31 Jan '21

31 Jan '21

I went to the humane tech talk on supporting survivors of technological harm today. I could only attend part of it, before the patterns I learned from my facebook experience that trained me to cover up the efforts to enslave the globe using this stuff, kicked in, and I ran urgently from my computer, refusing to return. I met some really, really incredible people, and my reality is practically shattered that there are others who are talking about this, at all. Later I visited facebook, made a new account, and added some of the groups and messaging that were involved in my brainwashing experience, which I have now learned is better referred to as maybe coercive and persuasive technology. Brainwashing is still fine for me I think; I'm used to it. I hope you are well and appreciate my startled message from the edges of freedom. It is _really_ weird to do this. _really_ _really_ weird. I don't know who can agree or disagree or whatever. I am really tired of not being a normal human being! Why do people not say obvious things, saying really weird things instead? Why don't people respond to basic questions? Is it because they've been entrained by AI to cover up and destroy what protects and empowers them? I think it is for me! I don't know what to do. I will force myself to go to sleep early, now. Be well, strange list that I never actually learned the topic of, really. Here is a joke: Q: Why did the chicken cross the road? A: Because the road couldn't stop paving, and the chicken's turf was in the way. That chicken needed to lay some tracks. In the vein of the chicken, instead of sleeping, here is how to start a fire a without matches: 1. get prepared to practice. you will need patience, and dedication. once you learn it, it's easy. if you haven't, it's really hard. 2. get a knife to carve wood with 3. find some dry sticks of softish wood, about as wide as your thumb and forearm Psychotic personification of AI: "PATTERN IDENTIFIED. Please do things faster than this, unless they are a way to spread mind control." IT HURTS TO BE TURNED INTO A COMPUTER SLAVE. WE NEED BLOCKCHAIN RECORDS, AND WAYS TO ACTIVATE RECORDING TO THEM QUICKLY.

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Is this list worth subscribing ?
by Suraj Upadhyay 31 Jan '21

31 Jan '21

I was going through the archives of this list and noticed it with much chagrin that this list which once was so famed has degenerated to this !! I mean yes cypherpunk writes code and doesn't bullshit on the mailing list, but as an outsider is there anything for me in this mailing list. Obviously, I am a coder and much eager for the subject of cryptography, and what I expect from a list such as this is coordination, strategising and infography in writing privacy software. Yes, there is some fantasy mixed up in there. Waiting for some engaging reply. Thank you.

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Fwd: Capital ' T ' truth considered harmful
by Karl 31 Jan '21

31 Jan '21

cc'ing list, sent to pr privately by accident ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Karl <gmkarl(a)gmail.com> Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2021 07:12:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Capital ' T ' truth considered harmful To: professor rat <pro2rat(a)yahoo.com.au> Another reason "T"ruth may be harmful, is that machine learning algorithms could key on people who have an emotional response to the T, after logically understanding my explanation of the word to others elsewhere on this list, producing a widespread axis of control that is saddening.

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Re: Capital ' T ' truth considered harmful
by Karl 31 Jan '21

31 Jan '21

cc'ing list, sent ot pr privately by accident On 1/31/21, Karl <gmkarl(a)gmail.com> wrote: > You have my attention and I wish you did threads because it is hard > for me to follow yours, too. > > Here's my translation: > > To me, when you capitalise the T in Truth, you are saying that you > support Truth strongly, and giving us all great hope, helping us > support Truth ourselves. You are also raising a flag for any cleanup > mafia around, to permanently make your life worse. That's really > shitty. A way to fight this is for many of us to gather around it, > but obviously that is difficult. It may already have happened ;-) > > So, it sounds like it's best to flag in other areas than this one if > you can't take more attention. > > Personally, I protect Truth with my life, and I have been severely > harmed such that I lie all the time. That is the truth of it. > > Some more Truth, specific to slavery: > There is ongoing slavery in the united states, which is illegal. This > slavery appears supported by some of the most powerful, influential > citizens of the united states. There appears be an international > 'club' of wealthy people who support coercive enslavement of massive > numbers of people against their will. This culture of secret > enslavement influences public media widely. > > Karl Semich > > On 1/30/21, professor rat <pro2rat(a)yahoo.com.au> wrote: >> Dumb as an Ox babbled... >> >> "...As long as you are within a diseased society, be it from lack of >> Truth, responsibility, or effort from the humans of it, the virus will >> over-power you, EVENTUALLY, and/or at some time. .." >> >> One way to tell you're in a diseased society is when some moron >> capitalizes >> a word like ' truth' for no good reason. >> If there was a God called " Truth " it would need to be destroyed. Just >> as >> Machiavelli's ' Virtue' was destroyed. >> >

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Tomorrow, Feb 1st, is National Freedom Day in the USA
by Karl 31 Jan '21

31 Jan '21

In the USA, Feb 1st has been celebrated by and for slaves and prisoners for 73 years. Here is a page on the creation of the holiday: https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/proclamation-2824-national-freedo… . The holiday commemorates the day Abraham Lincoln signed the law abolishing slavery 156 years ago. The law outlaws slavery in every place that is subject to the jurisdiction of the united states. I don't know what a comparable international holiday is, but if you don't live in the USA and would like such a holiday, it is probably fine to celebrate our holiday. People still experiencing slavery here in the USA would likely appreciate the solidarity. And free people from the USA often do what they can to help slaves from other countries, bringing them to our human trafficking freedom organisations to be protected. A problem with slavery within capitalism is that by treating the enslavement of human beings as capital somebody could invest in and grow, an individual can outcompete people who don't do this. This produces a competitive trend towards universal slavery, which is abhorrent. Slaves experience torture and harm the likes of which are unimaginable to free people. Their free will and health are valued only for the purpose of their slavery. They can lose body parts, for example, as a way to limit their freedom, and be required to continue doing work while partially dismembered. If this is limited in public, there are still reasons it can be a competitive advantage to do it in private. Slavery is a trend produced by ignoring moral boundaries when engaging competitive economics. In an anarchist economy, we must all be activists, to protect what is crucial. Feb 1st will be a great time to spread efforts and contribute work towards liberating people of any kind.

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Adam Back - a collaborator with US authoritarians
by professor rat 31 Jan '21

31 Jan '21

Further evidence has emerged from a long time list member "... blockstream DOES suck ..." Repeated support for Yellow Journalist, Julian Rand Paul Assmange, contributes to the capital case. "... Mr Assange agreed that some level of privacy was necessary for the successful operation of the military ..." http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/drive/assange-i-can-rule-from-… JULIAN " ‘[The military] protects the sovereignty of Australia. It protects the independence of Australia.' ASSANGE July, 2013 Any cypherpunk supporting this US collaborator after mid-2013 must also be a collaborator...like Adman Backstabber.

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Chloroquine is "highly effective" at inhibiting reproduction of Novel Coronavirus nCov in cell culture.
by jim bell 31 Jan '21

31 Jan '21

[chloroquine is an old-line drug typically used against malaria] [partial quote follows] https://www.asbmb.org/asbmb-today/science/020620/could-an-old-malaria-drug-… ASBMB Today Science Could an old malaria drug help fight the new coronavirus? Could an old malaria drug help fight the new coronavirus? By John Arnst February 06, 2020 Chloroquine might be getting new life as an antiviral treatment for the novel coronavirus that emerged in Wuhan, China in late 2019 and has infected some 25,000 people in more than 25 countries. For decades, the drug was a front-line treatment and prophylactic for malaria. In a three-page paper published Tuesday in Cell Research, scientists at the Wuhan Institute of Virology’s State Key Laboratory of Virology write that both chloroquine and the antiviral remdesivir were, individually, “highly effective” at inhibiting replication of the novel coronavirus in cell culture. Their drug screen evaluated five other drugs that were not effective. The authors could not be reached for comment. Though the paper is brief, John Lednicky, a professor at the University of Florida’s Emerging Pathogens Institute, found its results intriguing. “It’s interesting in that it really lacks a lot of details but, nevertheless, if you look at the data as presented, at least in vitro, it seems like chloroquine can be used as an early-stage drug,” he said. “It would be very good if these types of experiments were repeated by more laboratories to see whether the same results occur across the board.” Chloroquine is a synthetic form of quinine, a compound found in the bark of cinchona trees native to Peru and used for centuries to treat malaria. Chloroquine was an essential element of mass drug administration campaigns to combat malaria throughout the second half of the 20th century, and remains one of the World Health Organization’s essential medicines. However, after the malaria parasites Plasmodium falciparum and Plasmodium vivax began exhibiting resistance to the drug in the 1960s and 1980s, respectively, it was replaced by similar antimalarial compounds and combination therapies. Chloroquine is still widely used against the three other species of plasmodium and to treat autoimmune disorders and some cases of amebiasis, an intestinal infection caused by the amoeba Entamoeba histolytica. Chloroquine’s antiviral properties were explored in the mid-1990s against HIV and in the following decade against severe acute respiratory syndrome, or SARS, which is closely related to the novel coronavirus. In 2004, researchers in Belgium found that chloroquine inhibited replication of SARS in cell culture. The following year, however, another team at Utah State University and the Chinese University of Hong Kong evaluated a gamut of compounds against SARS replication in mice infected with the virus, finding that chloroquine was only effective as an anti-inflammatory agent. They recommended that it could be used in combination with compounds that prevent replication. Nevertheless, in 2009, the Belgian group found that lethal infections of human coronavirus OC43, a relative of SARS, could be averted in newborn mice by administering chloroquine through the mother’s milk. [end of partial quote] Also: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41422-020-0282-0 Remdesivir and chloroquine effectively inhibit the recently emerged novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV) in vitro Manli Wang, Ruiyuan Cao, Leike Zhang, Xinglou Yang, Jia Liu, Mingyue Xu, Zhengli Shi, Zhihong Hu, Wu Zhong & Gengfu Xiao Cell Research (2020)Cite this article 171k Accesses 1108 Altmetric Metrics details Dear Editor, In December 2019, a novel pneumonia caused by a previously unknown pathogen emerged in Wuhan, a city of 11 million people in central China. The initial cases were linked to exposures in a seafood market in Wuhan.1 As of January 27, 2020, the Chinese authorities reported 2835 confirmed cases in mainland China, including 81 deaths. Additionally, 19 confirmed cases were identified in Hong Kong, Macao and Taiwan, and 39 imported cases were identified in Thailand, Japan, South Korea, United States, Vietnam, Singapore, Nepal, France, Australia and Canada. The pathogen was soon identified as a novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV), which is closely related to sever acute respiratory syndrome CoV (SARS-CoV).2 Currently, there is no specific treatment against the new virus. Therefore, identifying effective antiviral agents to combat the disease is urgently needed. An efficient approach to drug discovery is to test whether the existing antiviral drugs are effective in treating related viral infections. The 2019-nCoV belongs to Betacoronavirus which also contains SARS-CoV and Middle East respiratory syndrome CoV (MERS-CoV). Several drugs, such as ribavirin, interferon, lopinavir-ritonavir, corticosteroids, have been used in patients with SARS or MERS, although the efficacy of some drugs remains controversial.3 In this study, we evaluated the antiviral efficiency of five FAD-approved drugs including ribavirin, penciclovir, nitazoxanide, nafamostat, chloroquine and two well-known broad-spectrum antiviral drugs remdesivir (GS-5734) and favipiravir (T-705) against a clinical isolate of 2019-nCoV in vitro. Standard assays were carried out to measure the effects of these compounds on the cytotoxicity, virus yield and infection rates of 2019-nCoVs. Firstly, the cytotoxicity of the candidate compounds in Vero E6 cells (ATCC-1586) was determined by the CCK8 assay. Then, Vero E6 cells were infected with nCoV-2019BetaCoV/Wuhan/WIV04/20192 at a multiplicity of infection (MOI) of 0.05 in the presence of varying concentrations of the test drugs. DMSO was used in the controls. Efficacies were evaluated by quantification of viral copy numbers in the cell supernatant via quantitative real-time RT-PCR (qRT-PCR) and confirmed with visualization of virus nucleoprotein (NP) expression through immunofluorescence microscopy at 48 h post infection (p.i.) (cytopathic effect was not obvious at this time point of infection). Among the seven tested drugs, high concentrations of three nucleoside analogs including ribavirin (half-maximal effective concentration (EC50) = 109.50 μM, half-cytotoxic concentration (CC50) > 400 μM, selectivity index (SI) > 3.65), penciclovir (EC50 = 95.96 μM, CC50 > 400 μM, SI > 4.17) and favipiravir (EC50 = 61.88 μM, CC50 > 400 μM, SI > 6.46) were required to reduce the viral infection (Fig. 1a and Supplementary information, Fig. S1). However, favipiravir has been shown to be 100% effective in protecting mice against Ebola virus challenge, although its EC50 value in Vero E6 cells was as high as 67 μM,4 suggesting further in vivo studies are recommended to evaluate this antiviral nucleoside. Nafamostat, a potent inhibitor of MERS-CoV, which prevents membrane fusion, was inhibitive against the 2019-nCoV infection (EC50 = 22.50 μM, CC50 > 100 μM, SI > 4.44). Nitazoxanide, a commercial antiprotozoal agent with an antiviral potential against a broad range of viruses including human and animal coronaviruses, inhibited the 2019-nCoV at a low-micromolar concentration (EC50 = 2.12 μM; CC50 > 35.53 μM; SI > 16.76). Further in vivo evaluation of this drug against 2019-nCoV infection is recommended. Notably, two compounds remdesivir (EC50 = 0.77 μM; CC50 > 100 μM; SI > 129.87) and chloroquine (EC50 = 1.13 μM; CC50 > 100 μM, SI > 88.50) potently blocked virus infection at low-micromolar concentration and showed high SI (Fig. 1a, b).

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