cypherpunks
Threads by month
- ----- 2024 -----
- December
- November
- October
- September
- August
- July
- June
- May
- April
- March
- February
- January
- ----- 2023 -----
- December
- November
- October
- September
- August
- July
- June
- May
- April
- March
- February
- January
- ----- 2022 -----
- December
- November
- October
- September
- August
- July
- June
- May
- April
- March
- February
- January
- ----- 2021 -----
- December
- November
- October
- September
- August
- July
- June
- May
- April
- March
- February
- January
- ----- 2020 -----
- December
- November
- October
- September
- August
- July
- June
- May
- April
- March
- February
- January
- ----- 2019 -----
- December
- November
- October
- September
- August
- July
- June
- May
- April
- March
- February
- January
- ----- 2018 -----
- December
- November
- October
- September
- August
- July
- June
- May
- April
- March
- February
- January
- ----- 2017 -----
- December
- November
- October
- September
- August
- July
- June
- May
- April
- March
- February
- January
- ----- 2016 -----
- December
- November
- October
- September
- August
- July
- June
- May
- April
- March
- February
- January
- ----- 2015 -----
- December
- November
- October
- September
- August
- July
- June
- May
- April
- March
- February
- January
- ----- 2014 -----
- December
- November
- October
- September
- August
- July
- June
- May
- April
- March
- February
- January
- ----- 2013 -----
- December
- November
- October
- September
- August
- July
May 2023
- 8 participants
- 331 discussions
Money never sleeps on Wall Street. Or at least that’s what Michael
Douglas’s character Gordon Gekko tells us in the Hollywood version of Wall
Street.
---
Brew Another Pot, Robinhood’s 24-Hour Stock Trading Is Here
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-05-17/new-robinhood-trading-ho…
1
0
[ot][crazy] Mainstream AI news snippets
by Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many 17 May '23
by Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many 17 May '23
17 May '23
Everybody seems to like synthetic imagery.
- genmo.ai claims to provide a text-to-video service with free demo. I
haven’t visited it.
- an early text-to-photorealistic-scene paper called dreamfusion came
out some months ago. this is like stable diffusion but generates
virtual scenes and models from text rather than just images. an open
source variant is at https://github.com/ashawkey/stable-dreamfusion .
i tried the colab briefly but for some reason it kept getting 0 loss
for me. i didn’t look for the results so i’m not sure if that’s a bug
or not.
1
8
CIA Releases Video Urging Russians To Spy On Their Own Country
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/5/16/cia-urges-russians-to-get-in-touch…
In an unusual attempt at public outreach 'spy-style', the world's most
powerful intelligence organization is openly encouraging Russians to
spy on their own country.
The CIA released a nearly 2-minute video Monday on its official
YouTube, Twitter, and Telegram channels. The Russian-language,
professionally produced video urges individual Russians to provide
intelligence on their country in the midst of the Ukraine war. Watch:
The video has a 'patriotic' orientation, assuring Russians they can do
something to improve their country and its situation by handing over
intelligence to the CIA.
"The CIA wants to know the truth about Russia, and we are looking for
reliable people who can tell us that truth," the agency said in the
video, according to a translation. "Your information may be more
valuable than you know."
The text on the screen of the clip further tells Russians to "Contact
us. Perhaps the people around you don’t want to hear the truth. We
want to."
Some of the narration includes the following messaging, according to a
description:
In the video – published on the CIA’s official YouTube channel and
the Telegram messaging app, popular in Russia – a male voice reflects
on the meaning of heroism and endurance as lone individuals are seen
weighing their decisions: a man trudging through snow, a woman staring
through a window.
“We are easily swayed by lies. But we do know what our reality is.
The reality we live in. And the reality we talk about in whispers,”
the voice says.
At the end, a man and a woman are shown in separate scenes with
their fingers hovering over mobile phone screens with a link saying
“Contact CIA”.
“This is my Russia. This will always be my Russia. I will endure.
My family will endure. We will live with dignity because of my
actions,” the narrator concludes.
The video at the end informs viewers how to submit information with a
Tor browser utilizing the dark web and suggests tools for encrypted
communications.
Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov in a daily briefing was asked about
the CIA's asset recruitment efforts. He responded, “I am convinced
that our special services are monitoring this space in the necessary
way.”
He added: “We all know perfectly well that the CIA and other Western
intelligence services are not reducing their activity on the territory
of our country.”
1
0
Cryptocurrency: Vivek Ramaswamy Trending 1st Crypto Pres Candidate, Not DeSantis, re CBDC
by grarpamp 17 May '23
by grarpamp 17 May '23
17 May '23
DeSantis is trying to bigstage Ramaswamy out of his anti-CBDC position.
However the crypto world knows Vivek has been making rounds and
sharing affinities in the pro crypto space since at least last year.
Vivek's appearances on the big crypto podcasts are easily searchable.
“To me, the American dream means you believe in merit. That you get
ahead in this country not on the color of your skin, but on the
content of your character and your contributions. It means you believe
the people who we elect to run the government are the ones who
actually run the government, not a federal bureaucracy. [...] It means
that the best ideas win instead of getting censored. It means you
don't have to choose between speaking your mind freely and putting
food on the dinner table. It means you think these ideals form the
backbone of the greatest nation on earth. -- Vivek Ramaswamy (February
2023)"
Mainstream clip...
https://video.foxnews.com/v/6315447241112/
1
2
1984: EU passes law requiring ID for all crypto transactions.
[–]IramDei_ 183 points184 points185 points 11 hours ago (8 children)
“prevent the misuse of crypto industry for the purposes of money
laundering and financing of terrorism”
Misuse? isnot thats the only use of crypto?
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
[–]SnarkConfidant 53 points54 points55 points 11 hours ago (6 children)
"It's all misuse?" :O
"Always has been" :|
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]broodkiller 17 points18 points19 points 7 hours ago (0 children)
🌎🧑🚀🔫🧑🚀
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[+]purekillforce1 comment score below threshold-44 points-43 points-42
points 9 hours ago (4 children)
Good job other currencies can't be used to launder or finance
terrorism! The criminal empire will crumble without their precious
cyber money muahaha
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]powercow 27 points28 points29 points 8 hours ago (2 children)
OH sure sure sure. Thats why we have regulations for suspicious
activity reports and know your customer laws for stock exchanges.
ALso this might blow your fucking mind. You can kill people with a
knife. But its a lot easier with an AR-15. Your comment is like saying
"OMG you want to regulate AR-15s, when people can kill each other with
a knife" YEAH, because one is more easy to do than the other. ITs not
complicated. SO You need more of a debate than "OMG YOU CAN LAUNDER IN
FIAT TOO!!!"
I can launder in toasters if i want, its just not very convenient or
easy. Pointing this fact out is fairly meaningless for the
conversation.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[+]purekillforce1 comment score below threshold-21 points-20 points-19
points 7 hours ago (1 child)
Seems pretty easy with cash laws for the stock exchange? They work well...
I'm not saying it can't be regulated and shouldn't be, but by design
you can avoid it. You can keep your own node and wallet and not have
to give identification to own and access your own wallet. Maybe for
criminal activity, maybe for privacy, maybe for security.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]PresidentoftheSun 13 points14 points15 points 7 hours ago (0 children)
Look, you can disconnect yourself from the rest of society however you
want, but most laws exist to control potential abuses carried out on
people when they try to interact with other people.
Existing financial regulations surrounding fraud are being actively
danced around using crypto. This is why more regulation targeting
crypto fraud specifically are coming. This isn't complicated to
understand.
Also, crypto is being treated different to how money is treated
because nobody uses it as money. If you think that's a stupid thing to
say, then you don't understand the function of money. Crypto is not
money.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]nachof 5 points6 points7 points 6 hours ago (0 children)
You known, you say that like it's obvious that banning crypto would
not do anything to reduce those issues, but in reality, we know that
this is going to help. We know this because since crypto started being
everywhere, ransomware exploded everywhere. So yes, crypto does help
criminals.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]rich-evans 12 points13 points14 points 8 hours ago (0 children)
“We are trying to prevent the misuse of bombs for the purpose of
blowing shit up”
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]LaughingAddict 45 points46 points47 points 10 hours ago (6 children)
Just in: all crypto pulls out of EU.
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
[–]Y_Sam 35 points36 points37 points 9 hours ago (3 children)
Oooh nooo what will become of us 🙁🙁🙁 How will I pay for my groceries ?
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]hiuslenkkimakkara 16 points17 points18 points 7 hours ago (0 children)
This filthy fiat Euro that can instantly settle my sauerkraut purchases, nooo
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]foxsheepgato 4 points5 points6 points 6 hours ago (1 child)
it's over for us eurobros 😞 tyranny won ✊😥
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]Ok-Possible-8440 3 points4 points5 points 1 hour ago (0 children)
"This is totalitarian, Europe will never be a developed country"
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]Noisebug 6 points7 points8 points 7 hours ago (1 child)
More like the EU pulls out of crypto. 😏
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]Ok-Possible-8440 1 point2 points3 points 1 hour ago (0 children)
😏👌
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]SemiCurrentGuy 53 points54 points55 points 10 hours ago (12 children)
Seeing the loudest idiots say either "good luck with enforcement" or
"how would this work with defi" shows truly how ignorant the typical
cryptobro is right now.
For point 1, they are basically saying the quiet part out loud and
willing to risk their entire lifesavings as well as that which belongs
to any potential greater fools they can attract, even if it means they
are breaking the law - as long as they do not actually get caught.
As for the second point, while true it would be quite hard to enforce
specific ID or KYC-related rules when it comes to that aspect of
crypto, it doesn't matter at all because those same rules would still
block all the entrances and all exists unless you actually comply.
These morons will be trading their magic internet money with each
other and starving to death on the way to homelessness if they
continue to avoid reality. The doors are closing and my popcorn stash
is not ready yet. When harvest?
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
[–]PresidentoftheSun 19 points20 points21 points 7 hours ago (9 children)
Government: Passes law that makes it illegal to process blockchain traffic.
ISP Providers: "What you mean free up some bandwidth by shutting down
anything with protocols matching blockchain functionality? Hell yeah
brother."
The only people left using crypto will be turbo nerds whose networks
don't interact with the internet at large, and everyone in it as a get
rich quick machine gets left holding keys to wallets they can't access
anymore because their ISP completely blocks them out.
Now I think this would be a terrible overreach by the government of
course, but it'd be funny in a cosmic sort of way.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]Ok-Row-6131 1 point2 points3 points 6 hours ago (6 children)
This might be hard to enforce because the ports could be changed
faster than ISPs can humanly react.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]grauenwolfAgent of Poe 7 points8 points9 points 4 hours ago (5 children)
Port jumping only really works for a small number of people. They need
tens of thousands of machines all coordinating. They can't do that if
the machines don't know what phone number to call.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]phire 1 point2 points3 points 2 hours ago (4 children)
There are ways around it.
For example, BitTorrent clients typically select random ports
automatically, and the currently active port numbers are communicated
via a 3rd party (the tracker, or the DHT network). They already needed
to share the active IPs via a third party so clients can connect to
each other, easy enough to bundle a port too.
Bittorrent also implements protocol encryption, because some ISPs were
using deep packet inspection to identify connections using the
bittorrent protocol. Encrypting the BitTorrent protocol neatly blocks
this method, as long as both clients support encryption.
Some ISPs tried pretty hard to block BitTorrent a decade ago, and they
never found a successful method. It would be the same if they tired to
block bitcoin.
Bitcoin already has methods for communicating ip:port pairs to other
peers, as the port is configurable by the user. Bitcoin would just
need to add a feature to automatically randomise the ports.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]grauenwolfAgent of Poe 1 point2 points3 points 2 hours ago (3 children)
Ah, you're making me work for it this time.
The 3rd party is the real vulnerability. Everyone would need to know
about it, meaning it can't be a secret, which means the government can
easily find and block or shut down it.
The advantage of BitTorrent is that it is a truly decentralized
system. If you fragment the BitTorrent network into a dozen different
pieces, each of those pieces will continue to work. A particular
fragment might not have the file you need, but it's going to have a
lot of files in those files are going to be accessible.
Bitcoin is distributed, but it's not decentralized. It needs to be one
cohesive network at pretty much at all times. If the network is broken
into two, what's known as a network partition, it has no means of
recovery other than dropping all of the completed transactions on one
side or the other of the partition once it heals.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]phire 1 point2 points3 points 1 hour ago (2 children)
Yes, the third party is a bit of a vulnerability.
Though the cat and mouse goes a bit further. If ISPs or goverments
start trying to block 3rd parties, then they will switch to using
shared third parties. For example, putting the lists of peers on S3,
reddit or facebook ways that the connections can't be blocked without
massively inconveniencing legitimate services.
And nodes only need to find one valid IP/port to connect to the
network and then the fetch more node addresses from there. To
effectively block the P2P layer, a government would eventually be
forced to just maintain blocklists of every single node.
I don't think a government would ever go down that route, because
there are much easier methods. The on-ramps/off-ramps (exchanges) are
much more vulnerable to targeted legal attacks and that produces more
or less the same result. If money can't flow in and out, bitcoin is
pragmatically worthless.
If they really wanted to shut the network down, they are better off
going after the miners and preventing more blocks from being created.
I've talked about this attack vector before.
It needs to be one cohesive network at pretty much at all times.
If the network is broken into two, what's known as a network
partition,
Sure, there could be multiple partitions. But multiple partitions with
different mining pools is unlikely to happen more than once or twice.
Goes against their ideals of decentralisation, but in the face of such
an attack, the mining pools would quickly learn to keep private
encrypted connections between eachother. It would be impossible for
governments to disrupt these links and partition mining pools, unless
they directly attack the miners.
Any partition that doesn't have communication with any mining pool
will never see any new blocks, or have their transactions included.
It has no means of recovery other than dropping all of the
completed transactions on one side or the other of the partition once
it heals.
This is less of a problem that you suggest.
The dropped transaction go back into the mempool and simply get
included in future blocks. The block size limitations would make this
scenario suck, but it doesn't fundamentally break anything. Someone
might manage to pull off a double spend in the chaos, but that
wouldn't be easy.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]grauenwolfAgent of Poe 1 point2 points3 points 27 minutes ago (1 child)
I don't think a government would ever go down that route, because
there are much easier methods. The on-ramps/off-ramps (exchanges) are
much more vulnerable to targeted legal attacks
I agree with that wholeheartedly.
We'll probably never learn which of us is right on the other points
because it would be stupid for the government to not just use the easy
route.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]phire 0 points1 point2 points 3 minutes ago (0 children)
Yeah.
Most governments simply don't have the infrastructure to censor the
internet at a per-connection level, but they already have large
amounts of infrastructure for policing companies that enable money
laundering and other illegal movement of money.
And the one government that already had the level of internet
censorship infrastructure to even start thinking about doing this
(China), already cracked down on cryptocurrency and they went with
route of suppressing on-ramps/off-ramps and outlawing mining
operations.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]drdaeman 0 points1 point2 points 2 hours ago (1 child)
“Hell yeah?” You, good sir, must have no idea what you’re talking about.
ISPs hate being forced to set up any non-trivial traffic filtering.
That’s extra work that doesn’t bring any money - neither clients nor
governments pay for this. If anything, it consumes money - either in
engineering hours or in licensing costs. And liabilities for not
blocking something (especially sometime vaguely defined) is definitely
not something that makes ISPs happier. Large telecoms (especially
monopolies) can sorta shrug it off (still not being exactly happy
unless there’s some scheme how to spend money in a way it goes in
desirable pockets), smaller companies hate such ideas.
Bandwidth saving is approached differently, most commonly by
optimizing peering or deploying local caches.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]PresidentoftheSun 0 points1 point2 points 28 minutes ago (0 children)
no idea what you're talking about
I mean yeah probably.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]PatchworkFlames 8 points9 points10 points 8 hours ago (0 children)
Who needs exit ramps when they never plan to sell?
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]Ok-Possible-8440 2 points3 points4 points 2 hours ago* (0 children)
They say : " this will send Europe back into the stone age"."Europe
really wants to be set back against the developed world and Chinaaa!!"
"Eu is the worst country on the planet" 🤣🤣
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]Malfrum 75 points76 points77 points 11 hours ago (2 children)
I mean I think we've said for years that any world government could,
at any moment, raid the crypto party and shut the whole shitshow down
in a heartbeat. They just don't care to... yet
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
[–]powercow 20 points21 points22 points 8 hours ago (0 children)
well i have always been amused when so many in the crypto subs think
the SEC and the GOV are scared of crypto. If they were scared the game
would be over already. The fact they want to label alt coins.. NOT
BITCOIN but other alt coins as securities doenst mean they are scared
of anything.
and fuck like anything else, if it took off big business would be up
to the neck in crypto. Banks already do have some investments into
crypto. SO the idea they are scared is rather laughable.
Yeah gov cant kill crypto, its sorta like tor in that respect, but
they can hobble the fuck out of it, so its only useful for .. well the
shit its used for right now. Illegal activity.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]easyj86 10 points11 points12 points 8 hours ago (0 children)
Ya, the goal of government isn't to stop crime entirely, it's to be in
control. Right now, crypto offers them a trail to target those if and
so they wish. If they came down on it entirely, they'd lose that
power.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]Kooky_General_3292 11 points12 points13 points 8 hours ago (4 children)
how am I supposed to buy coke now
edit: i'm not kidding how am I supposed to buy my benzos now?
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
[–]amyo_b 11 points12 points13 points 7 hours ago (1 child)
The traditional way, I guess. Make a connection with a shady dealer
and exchange cash for the goods hoping that the sketchy dealer is too
motivated by future profits to bump off his customers by selling
tainted junk or just plain robbing them.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]doubleyewdee 5 points6 points7 points 3 hours ago (0 children)
Literally you can just befriend (genuinely befriend, not be a
schmoozing jerk) people in service industry, at least in the US coke
flows through restaurant kitchens like water.
I've had so many buddies who are servers/kitchen staff just say 'hey
do you want a bump?' casually, they'll hook you up.
(should note: never actually DONE the bumps, but just because cocaine
isn't my personal preference in drugs, no judgment either way.)
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]Ok-Possible-8440 0 points1 point2 points 1 hour ago (0 children)
Like all bros do, ask mom for it
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]LaughingAddict 0 points1 point2 points 1 hour ago (0 children)
The only good thing about crypto was drugs delivered to your door.
With pharmacies and fucking doctors scared shitless of getting
financially ruined, it’s become increasingly harder in the states to
get help for pain management. It’s so much easier to just order what
you need off the dark web.
I hope society and doctors quit flipping the fuck out and get back to
actually helping people.
Now every doctor in my area is like Mother Theresa with the mindset of
“suffering is what brings you closer to god, so you should suffer.”
I wish I was joking.
The pendulum has swung too fucking far toward Mother Theresa.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]marcio0 5 points6 points7 points 8 hours ago (0 children)
would be the future of finance, if not for those pesky regulators!
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
[–]mangotree65 5 points6 points7 points 7 hours ago (0 children)
Crypto brought the level of intelligence required for successful money
laundering down to that of the average cryptobro. Laundering has been
done by intelligent people for a long time. It remains to be seen if
Bitcoin Bobby and Ethereum Ellie can pull it off without their crypto
crutch but the tilted heads and dripping drool I see when I gaze their
way doesn’t inspire confidence.
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
[–]Mongorize 2 points3 points4 points 6 hours ago (0 children)
Cue the meltdown in r/cc
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
[–]ililillillllili 2 points3 points4 points 5 hours ago* (1 child)
is this entire sub just feds circlejerking each other?
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
[–]Ok-Possible-8440 0 points1 point2 points 2 hours ago (0 children)
Yes we are
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]EricBeTrappin 2 points3 points4 points 7 hours ago (0 children)
just to be the devils advocate here, this applies to crypto asset
service providers so it’s still equally as decentralized as it always
has been, i mean nothing decentralized about going to a centralized
site lol
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
[–]deadpanjunkie 2 points3 points4 points 6 hours ago (0 children)
Cash is the only true decentralised currency, no one knows where it is
at any one time.
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
[–]AmericanScream 2 points3 points4 points 5 hours ago (1 child)
Congratulations crypto bros!
You wanted to convince people crypto = money?
This is the result!
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
[–]Ok-Row-6131 1 point2 points3 points 1 hour ago (0 children)
Turns out they just wanted money without the laws associated with it
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]homezlice 2 points3 points4 points 3 hours ago (0 children)
Laws. Turns out they exist.
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
[–]Glad_Cauliflower8032 -4 points-3 points-2 points 6 hours ago (1 child)
people can send to eachother via there private wallets, this is just
for exchanges
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
[–]Pablanomexicano[S] 9 points10 points11 points 6 hours ago (0 children)
Gotta cash out though.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[+]TIRBU6ONAwarning, I am a moron comment score below threshold-10
points-9 points-8 points 4 hours ago (7 children)
So you celebrate government control over the people? Weirdos…
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
[–]Pablanomexicano[S] 5 points6 points7 points 3 hours ago* (4 children)
You’re the same people that cry about your funds being stolen and that
there are too many scams. Crytpobros cry about how it needs to be
regulated to prevent such a thing. Then when regulations happen you
cry about it being too much. You people are delusional!
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[+]TIRBU6ONAwarning, I am a moron -1 points0 points1 point 47 minutes
ago (3 children)
“You people are delusional” or maybe you make a wrong generalisation
about two or more kinds of people who match the scenarios above?
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]Pablanomexicano[S] 1 point2 points3 points 31 minutes ago (2 children)
Bro you are all the same. Crying about don’t put your money on CEX’s
you can’t trust them, Meme coins are pump and dumps. , and etc. What
you crypto bros want is legality and legitimacy without the legality
and legitimacy part.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[+]TIRBU6ONAwarning, I am a moron -1 points0 points1 point 23 minutes
ago (1 child)
Sure, millions of people are exactly the same, very sane theory.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]Pablanomexicano[S] 0 points1 point2 points 5 minutes ago (0 children)
Sooo you want to continue to get scammed and get ripped off from your
money!? Lol you people are dumb
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]Ok-Row-6131 6 points7 points8 points 4 hours ago (0 children)
Yes, yes we do.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]Ok-Possible-8440 2 points3 points4 points 2 hours ago (0 children)
Yeeeeeess we fucking do 👮
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]montuckyv2 -21 points-20 points-19 points 8 hours ago (4 children)
Tells you how scared they are of losing control.
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
[–]IAMA_Plumber-AMA 20 points21 points22 points 7 hours ago (0 children)
Lol, "scared".
More like they've been letting cryptobros play store, and now that
people are getting scammed, they're bringing the hammer down.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]VintageLunchMeat 1 point2 points3 points 3 hours ago (0 children)
Control? Cryptocoins don't benefit society. Moreover, they cause
demonstrable harm, be it co2 emissions, money laundering, asset
hiding, exchange administrators running thefts, or, perhaps most
importantly, defrauding newbies by telling them cryptocoins are a
reliable technology and are a safe investment.
Why tolerate their existence?
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–][deleted] 5 hours ago (1 child)
[removed]
[–]spookmann👻[M] 1 point2 points3 points 4 hours ago (0 children)
Un-called for.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[+]auron66 comment score below threshold-30 points-29 points-28 points
8 hours ago (3 children)
Government and banks really can’t digest crypto isn’t? Money laundry
my ass, criminal and rich people will always find their way to laundry
their dirty money, is just an excuse to not let the banks be replaced
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
[–]IAMA_Plumber-AMA 18 points19 points20 points 7 hours ago (0 children)
Lol, get real. Governments could regulate crypto out of existence
tomorrow if they wished.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]thehoesmakethemanincendiary and presumptuous (but not always wrong)
4 points5 points6 points 5 hours ago (0 children)
banks be replaced? has crypto ever issued even a single mortgage, ever?
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]Ok-Possible-8440 1 point2 points3 points 2 hours ago (0 children)
Are you sad cause your bank account is empty🥲
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[+]areq13warning, I am a moron comment score below threshold-62
points-61 points-60 points 11 hours ago (8 children)
And I just passed gas, which has the same effect on the blockchain.
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
[–]SpandexPanFried 53 points54 points55 points 11 hours ago (3 children)
Nobody gives a shit about the coins themselves, or what they do on the
blockchain. They care when people try to convert them to fiat.
Go ahead, try and sell even one bitcoin for cash without using an
exchange to do it.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]fattybread83 14 points15 points16 points 10 hours ago (0 children)
They're gonna have to move to South America to be able to live...
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]LaughingAddict 15 points16 points17 points 10 hours ago (1 child)
Only possible through IRL transactions. As in you hand me briefcase of
money and I give you frou frou token. Seems like a good deal….
This will push crypto into shadier corners. I don’t know how much rope
they have left honestly before they hang themselves with it.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]dubov 8 points9 points10 points 9 hours ago (0 children)
Future of finance
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]BigFreakingPope 13 points14 points15 points 10 hours ago (0 children)
Good luck paying your taxes, rent, mortgage or anything else
meaningful in crypto.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]SufficientAnalyst383 6 points7 points8 points 8 hours ago (0 children)
Flair checks out.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]PatchworkFlames 4 points5 points6 points 8 hours ago (0 children)
That's because the blockchain is divorced from reality.
You understand it doesn't matter how much bitcoin you have, you need
to convert it to cash to buy that lambo, right?
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]sometimesworkhard 0 points1 point2 points 1 hour ago (0 children)
This is good for Bitcoin.
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
1
0
17 May '23
Ledger keeps screwing up.
Trezor often seen as better.
In reality, neither, nor any other digital gizmo is needed.
https://v.redd.it/06cyilqto70b1 Old School Sledger Attack
Ledger is officially a hot wallet. It can expose your seed phrase to
third parties! (Confirmed on their sub) (self.CryptoCurrency)
by BusinessBreakfast3
I woke up to shocking news!
TLDR The ledger device actually can expose your seed phrase to the internet.
Initially it was a speculation and people were expecting updates.
Eventually, we got them:
https://np.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/13itm7u/is_there_a_backdoor_y…
So yes, it's a service your can opt for for "recovery services", but
the bottom line is that it can expose the seed phrase.
Ultimately, it's a matter of the French government knocking on their
doors and asking for it.
This actually makes your funds at Ledger less safe than on MetaMask.
At least we don't have a confirmation that other hot wallets can
access or keep copies of the seed phrases.
Leger, it was nice while it lasted...
But it's game over.
Edit: to the people downvoting my comments: I'm also a Ledger user.
Have been using it for multiple years to store my crypto. I'm not
happy that this happened and I hate the upcoming inconvenience of
buying new wallets and sending crypto back and forth. But
unfortunately, this is the reality. :(
Edit 2: Many users say
but you can choose not to opt-in!!1
You can't opt out of the device being able to leak data to the internet.
You can only opt out of Ledger doing it with intent.
Edit 3: They just doubled down on Twitter spaces.
They described the product and didn't address the relevant comments
and concerns. They kept repeating that it's an "opt in service" and
finished by saying that their product is not for people with more than
$50k.
1640 comments
[–]CryptoMaximalistBitconnect Whale[M] [score hidden] 13 hours ago*
stickied commentlocked comment (14 children)
In situations like this, we try to pin official responses so readers
have both sides of the story. If there is further information from
Ledger, we would be happy to add it here.
Ledger has since posted this FAQ page and the following video:
https://twitter.com/Ledger/status/1658458714771169282
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
load more comments (14 replies)
[–]zoomercoomer9000 400 points401 points402 points 18 hours ago* (93 children)
The crazy thing is Ledger didn't provide details about this new
feature on their website or any obvious place. Until recently, you had
to dig under 8 paragraphs on an unrelated article about FTX customers
just to find it.
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/ftx-crypto-investors-hardware-wallets
Ledger is preparing to launch a new service called Ledger
Recover that splits a wallet recovery phrase—basically, a
human-readable form of the private key—into three encrypted shards and
distributes them to three custodians: Ledger, crypto custody firm
Coincover, and code escrow company EscrowTech. If somebody loses
their recovery phrase, two of the three shards can be combined—pending
an ID check—to regain access to the locked funds. Essentially, Ledger
Recover is an additional safety net; for the price of $9.99 a month,
it takes the jeopardy out of crypto’s version of stuffing dollars
under the mattress. It’ll be available in the UK, EU, US, and Canada
and come to other territories later in the year.
You would think they'd display this information more prominently,
especially as it concerns something that fundamentally changes their
business model.
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
[–]springdot1Tin 145 points146 points147 points 14 hours ago (33 children)
“ - pending an ID check - “
Well that’s fine then. Not like everybody keeps repeatedly getting
their government issued ID and other info repeatedly exfiltrated from
any company they do business with 🙄
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]KiiaruUneducated Opinion 69 points70 points71 points 13 hours ago
(7 children)
So you can get your identity stolen and your crypto drained all at
once! It's a feature not a bug...
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]conceiv3d-in-lib3rty 28 points29 points30 points 11 hours ago (5 children)
This is absolute bullshit. There’s no way ledger survives this blunder.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (5 replies)
[–]BentPinPlatinum | QC: ETH 38 | MiningSubs 28 5 points6 points7
points 8 hours ago (0 children)
Don't forget to pay for this privilege.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]sweet_tinkerbelle 51 points52 points53 points 13 hours ago (21 children)
so it's just banking with extra steps pshh.
But I have an idea why they are doing this. Must be some people
forgetting or losing their seedphrases and blaming ledger for it like
the idiots they are.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]trancephorm 53 points54 points55 points 13 hours ago (16 children)
No, they almost certanly doing it out of political pressure.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]Kodeshii 17 points18 points19 points 10 hours ago (0 children)
Well this makes me scared for the security of my coins on my Ledger now!!
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]Legitimate-Source-61Tin | 4 months old 9 points10 points11 points
11 hours ago (2 children)
If it's political, then Trezor will soon follow.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]CaponcapoffstillonSilver | QC: CC 286, DOGE 157, BTC 106 | r/CMS
229 4 points5 points6 points 10 hours ago (0 children)
This, seems like governments are making the companies crack.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (1 reply)
load more comments (12 replies)
[–]DentinQuarantino 25 points26 points27 points 13 hours ago (1 child)
Perhaps you're not as cynical as me... But the underhand way they've
brought this out combined with what they're actually doing makes me
think it's more likely pressured from the authorities to undermine
cryptos power. Whatever the reason I'm glad I haven't got a Ledger!
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (1 reply)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–]zomgitsdukePlatinum | QC: BTC 107, CC 16 | LegalAdvice 167 4
points5 points6 points 13 hours ago* (0 children)
"We are sorry our outsourced workforce mass-approved a series of 100
photoshopped ID photos and handed over your crypto. We are
investigating the now-bankrupt company and will try to sue them for
recovery of your funds. No promises though."
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (2 replies)
[–]Josefumi12 10 points11 points12 points 15 hours ago (1 child)
Another reason to not trust them
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (1 reply)
[–]BusinessBreakfast3Platinum | QC: BTC 28, CC 22 | CRO 5[S] 72
points73 points74 points 18 hours ago (18 children)
Crazy!
They're done. It's game over.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (18 replies)
[–]hadoob024 6 points7 points8 points 14 hours ago (11 children)
Is this an optional service? Are you able to opt out of it? God I hope so
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (11 replies)
load more comments (26 replies)
[–]JeremyBFPlatinum | QC: BTC 311, CC 209 212 points213 points214
points 19 hours ago (39 children)
Wow. WTF! A hardware wallet that CAN broadcast your keys to the
internet. Fucking POINTLESS. Might as well just use a software wallet
then.
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
[–]BiggusDickus-Silver | QC: CC 266, SOL 32, ETH 22 | VET 560 |
TraderSubs 76 23 points24 points25 points 10 hours ago (6 children)
It is a flat out violation of their very directly claim that the seed
cannot physically leave the device under any circumstances. Obviously
that was just a flat out lie.
Perhaps the silver lining is that the blowback will be so hard that
they will make new models that really are that way.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]TheLuckyO1neTin | LRC 14 | Superstonk 259 13 points14 points15
points 5 hours ago (0 children)
As if anyone would trust them now lmao
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (5 replies)
[–]Mr_Bob_FergusonPlatinum | QC: CC 445 49 points50 points51 points 17
hours ago (1 child)
A hardware wallet
...and not just any hardware wallet, but THE one that is always recommended.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (1 reply)
[–]BusinessBreakfast3Platinum | QC: BTC 28, CC 22 | CRO 5[S] 44
points45 points46 points 18 hours ago (16 children)
Exactly!
And I'm getting downvoted for suggesting that.
Anyway, I'm getting BitBox02 or Coldcard today.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]the_nin_collector 17 points18 points19 points 17 hours ago (2 children)
any reason not to consider a trezor? honestly curious. Haven't
compared wallets in a long time
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (2 replies)
[–]BlockchainFoxTin 5 points6 points7 points 12 hours ago (0 children)
Yeah what about trezor?
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]Ur_mothers_keeper 4 points5 points6 points 11 hours ago (3 children)
Do either of those support monero?
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (3 replies)
load more comments (8 replies)
[–]helobro11 2 points3 points4 points 15 hours ago (0 children)
Exactly bro 💯
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (12 replies)
[–]middlemangv 545 points546 points547 points 20 hours ago (212 children)
If this is true, then this is pretty disappointing.
They literally lost the only reason why I wanted to buy them..
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
[–]SkuniMasterMind 269 points270 points271 points 19 hours ago* (40 children)
hey literally lost the only reason why I wanted to buy them
They really compromised their biggest selling point... for $10 a month
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]emp-sup-bryBronze | QC: CC 22 | LRC 6 48 points49 points50 points
15 hours ago (7 children)
Subscription model preys on the idea that people are overwhelmed
(somewhat by the goddamn number of subscriptions) and will just pay
forever
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]SkuniMasterMind 28 points29 points30 points 15 hours ago (6 children)
Subscription models were just transition from micro-transactions to
not so micro anymore.
Yet - we swallowed it
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]gt4674bTin 7 points8 points9 points 14 hours ago (1 child)
Not sure about that yet. I think people are starting to wake up to the
financial realities and will start making more rational purchase
choices. Maybe.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (1 reply)
load more comments (4 replies)
[–]89timeTin 46 points47 points48 points 18 hours ago (16 children)
Damn, total palmface.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]deathbyfish13Free Range Moon Farmer 16 points17 points18 points 18
hours ago (4 children)
I'm trying to figure out why they would do this but all it's making me
want to do is headwall
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]ice_blade_sorc 9 points10 points11 points 17 hours ago (1 child)
If "money" isn't the answer to your question then I'll wallbang my head myself
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (1 reply)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–]Mr_Bob_FergusonPlatinum | QC: CC 445 17 points18 points19 points 17
hours ago (7 children)
Damn, total palmface.
As they say... "$10 is $10".
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]MetaploidTin 10 points11 points12 points 17 hours ago (2 children)
A man's gotta eat
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (2 replies)
[–]Aim_SuxPlatinum | QC: ETH 135, CC 346 | TraderSubs 135 5 points6
points7 points 16 hours ago (1 child)
No, $10 is about $3.50
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (1 reply)
[–]user260421Platinum | QC: CC 44, ETH 23 | TraderSubs 10 3 points4
points5 points 16 hours ago (0 children)
Now I totally get their decision! /s
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (1 reply)
load more comments (3 replies)
load more comments (15 replies)
[–]StolenApe 83 points84 points85 points 17 hours ago (16 children)
This seed saving service I think makes sense for a hot wallet, like a
mobile app. People don’t save their seeds, or save them on their
phones and then lose their phone. Lol. Online, encrypted seed saving
is about on par with the risk profile of a mobile hot wallet.
A ledger on the other hand… People who buy one have made the decision
to increase their security to the best possible security available.
Then suggesting those people should compromise the security they have
just purchased by doing the one thing they are never meant to do is
just insane
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (16 replies)
[–]ErmingardiaPlatinum | QC: CC 540 | Unpop.Opin. 50 34 points35
points36 points 18 hours ago (28 children)
I was about to buy one this month, very disappointed...
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]Lillica_Golden_SHIBBronze | BANANO 5 | TraderSubs 13 32 points33
points34 points 18 hours ago (15 children)
I bought a new one three or four months ago. Feeling a bit uneasy about it...
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]pjlsnapTin 16 points17 points18 points 15 hours ago (2 children)
Two months ago here, waste of 150$
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (12 replies)
[–]Aim_SuxPlatinum | QC: ETH 135, CC 346 | TraderSubs 135 8 points9
points10 points 18 hours ago (8 children)
Might as well as open another Metamask Wallet for free
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (8 replies)
[–]Josefumi12 3 points4 points5 points 18 hours ago (2 children)
You're disappointed but at least you are still saving and not spending
your money.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (2 replies)
[–]Every_Hunt_160Platinum | QC: CC 672 | r/SSB 10 36 points37 points38
points 19 hours ago (11 children)
Ledger asking people for their seed phrase is pretty strange indeed.
Next thing you know KFC is gonna turn to a Broccoli restaurant
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]slasula 13 points14 points15 points 18 hours ago (1 child)
vile weed
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (1 reply)
load more comments (9 replies)
[–]redthepotato 16 points17 points18 points 19 hours ago (26 children)
Well this sucks. Is Trezor better? My ledger isn't even a year old yet.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]bidet_enthusiastTin | Futurology 11 20 points21 points22 points 18
hours ago (17 children)
The trezzor code can also be modified to expose the seed. The problem
seems to be that ledger made this capability into a feature in their
code.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]macethefacePlatinum | QC: LW 92, BTC 45, CC 37 | ADA 15 |
TraderSubs 28 11 points12 points13 points 17 hours ago (1 child)
Belive you need physical access to the Trezor for that hack tho
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (1 reply)
[–]RunsOnJava98 5 points6 points7 points 17 hours ago (3 children)
There was a YouTube video where one person accessed the physical
device and was able to grab the PIN from its RAM after changing a few
things.
But, I don’t think it was the seed phrase.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]ElonMusk0fficialBronze | Pers.Fin. 18 8 points9 points10 points 15
hours ago (0 children)
I wouldn’t consider someone using advanced electronics to listen in on
a hardware level to the chips “changing a few things”. This woikd have
to be a person specific attack where you have access to the physical
wallet itself. I don’t own or recommend any wallet but that attack
isn’t feasible outside of one off attacks where you can get to a
person and access their hardware wallet
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (11 replies)
load more comments (8 replies)
[–]BusinessBreakfast3Platinum | QC: BTC 28, CC 22 | CRO 5[S] 36
points37 points38 points 20 hours ago (17 children)
Great timing. I have two devices which I'll dispose of soon.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]partymslPlatinum | QC: CC 702 | r/WSB 16 36 points37 points38
points 18 hours ago (7 children)
This decision will really cost them a lot of money.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]blitzlurkerno one knows anything 45 points46 points47 points 18
hours ago (2 children)
Even if they reverse the decision the damage is done. The trust is broken.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]OPTIMUS-PRIME27Tin 5 points6 points7 points 17 hours ago (0 children)
Trust shattered, scars remain - actions speak louder than words.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (1 reply)
[–]BusinessBreakfast3Platinum | QC: BTC 28, CC 22 | CRO 5[S] 22
points23 points24 points 18 hours ago (2 children)
Definitely! I'll spread the word forever.
Although I was a user, I'm still holding a grudge from the data leak. :)
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]StarbugIThey're all dead. Everybody's dead, Dave. 9 points10
points11 points 18 hours ago (0 children)
Agreed, was not impressed at the data leak. This is the icing on the cake.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (1 reply)
load more comments (1 reply)
[–]blitzlurkerno one knows anything 25 points26 points27 points 18
hours ago (3 children)
Kinda pissed off finding this post a day after I ordered one. I doubt
I'll be able to get my cash back but I'll try because an exploit like
this should be a valid reason for a refund.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (3 replies)
[–]Aim_SuxPlatinum | QC: ETH 135, CC 346 | TraderSubs 135 19 points20
points21 points 18 hours ago (3 children)
Boy this move is gonna bite back Ledger right in their asses
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]BusinessBreakfast3Platinum | QC: BTC 28, CC 22 | CRO 5[S] 24
points25 points26 points 18 hours ago (2 children)
First they leaked our data, now they leak our seed phrases.
Let them burn!
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (1 reply)
[–]Which-Occasion-9246 7 points8 points9 points 18 hours ago (0 children)
Agreed. Very disappointing... goes against what cold wallet stands for.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (67 replies)
[–]jimmycryptsoSilver | QC: CC 31, BCH 29 | CelsiusNet. 69 72 points73
points74 points 17 hours ago (4 children)
Somehow they managed to survive the massive data leak of customer
info. I don't think they will survive this though.
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
[–]BusinessBreakfast3Platinum | QC: BTC 28, CC 22 | CRO 5[S] 38
points39 points40 points 17 hours ago (1 child)
My email was leaked and I "forgave" them.
Won't do it this time.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]jimmycryptsoSilver | QC: CC 31, BCH 29 | CelsiusNet. 69 4 points5
points6 points 17 hours ago (0 children)
Same. Luckily I used a burner email and no longer have the same
address or phone number.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (2 replies)
[–]rock-island321 250 points251 points252 points 19 hours ago (45 children)
They'll be killing their business if that's true.
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
[–]BusinessBreakfast3Platinum | QC: BTC 28, CC 22 | CRO 5[S] 126
points127 points128 points 19 hours ago (23 children)
Killed it from my perspective.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]rock-island321 52 points53 points54 points 19 hours ago (11 children)
Bitcoin University will be doing a video on that today or tomorrow I
expect. He'll break it down.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]deathbyfish13Free Range Moon Farmer 23 points24 points25 points 18
hours ago (5 children)
I don't see how it's not killing it, this goes against their main selling point.
I'll for sure watch the video when it comes out but I'm not expecting
anything shocking
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]Aim_SuxPlatinum | QC: ETH 135, CC 346 | TraderSubs 135 6 points7
points8 points 16 hours ago (4 children)
It's like KFC decided to stop selling fried chicken and started
selling boiled chicken
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (4 replies)
load more comments (5 replies)
load more comments (11 replies)
[–]dorfelsnorfPlatinum | QC: CC 186 | CRO 14 | ExchSubs 14 17 points18
points19 points 17 hours ago (1 child)
What are they thinking. A security focused device that screws up their
security is nothing to have.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]rock-island321 6 points7 points8 points 17 hours ago (0 children)
It could be they are aligning themselves with soon-to-be regulation.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]DerpJungler"CryptoBro" 25 points26 points27 points 18 hours ago (6 children)
I feel bad for everyone who purchased their product.
We now have to be incredibly more sceptical when buying cold wallets..
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]CoronaryAssistanceBronze | QC: CC 21 | r/SSB 12 10 points11
points12 points 13 hours ago (1 child)
Besides ledger and Trezor what other option even is there?
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (1 reply)
[–]SulkyVirusPlatinum | QC: GPUmining 46, CC 35 | Stocks 69 5 points6
points7 points 12 hours ago (1 child)
Just got one and moved everything over a couple months ago... Ugh.
So is this a case where as long as I don't sign up for that service my
seed is still secure? Or did they push and update out and as soon as I
plug my cold wallet in it will compromise my seed?
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (1 reply)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–]The_Lombard_FoxTin 7 points8 points9 points 16 hours ago (0 children)
Kind of defeats the entire purpose of a cold wallet
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]Josefumi12 9 points10 points11 points 18 hours ago (1 child)
They're just inverting their own business model /s
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (1 reply)
[–]user260421Platinum | QC: CC 44, ETH 23 | TraderSubs 10 3 points4
points5 points 16 hours ago (1 child)
Maybe they're gonna do the same as paypal when they tried to slip
something in their T&Cs (the ability to fine you 2k if they don't
agree with your views), then they took it back and introduced it later
again when people were paying less attention.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (1 reply)
[–]ArcosimSilver | QC: CC 51 | VET 22 | Technology 39 3 points4
points5 points 15 hours ago (0 children)
It's insane, they were able to turn the name of their company into the
synonymous for cold wallet, and now they did this for a $10 bucks a
month completely unnecessary service.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (6 replies)
[–]Plasticites 176 points177 points178 points 19 hours ago (16 children)
Why did they have to go and screw this up? I used to be able to sleep
at night having my Ledger
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
[–]BusinessBreakfast3Platinum | QC: BTC 28, CC 22 | CRO 5[S] 43
points44 points45 points 19 hours ago (3 children)
Likewise, my friend.
It's really unfortunate!
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (3 replies)
[–]JoNwOrDy 21 points22 points23 points 14 hours ago (1 child)
Ledger Recover: the gift that keeps on giving (to hackers).
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (1 reply)
[–]FAyouPAB 5 points6 points7 points 13 hours ago (0 children)
Greed.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (9 replies)
[–]sw1mhouse 110 points111 points112 points 16 hours ago (18 children)
Would a class action be applicable?! This is ridiculous . . .
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
[–]Josefumi12 51 points52 points53 points 14 hours ago (2 children)
I need refunds
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]sw1mhouse 33 points34 points35 points 14 hours ago (0 children)
I'd gladly take that too. This is absurd . . . They completely
obliterated their use case. We all could have stuck with free hot
wallets
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]LeThaLxdARkSilver | QC: CC 53, BTC 19 | CRO 67 | ExchSubs 72 8
points9 points10 points 10 hours ago (0 children)
Same, got more than only one and not only that, but false
advertisement is illegal and apparently put me at a risk i wasn’t
willing to take with anyone else but myself
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]Deep90Platinum | QC: CC 25 | Pers.Fin. 20 6 points7 points8 points
11 hours ago* (5 children)
I would say it's unlikely unless ledger actually experiences a breach.
Also need more information on how all of this works and if it's
actually compromising even if you opt out.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]sw1mhouse 16 points17 points18 points 11 hours ago (3 children)
Agreed but I do think they duped their customer base. I & most others
I'm aware of wanted a cold wallet with no compromises. It's starts
like this & ends in KYC everytime essentially defeating the purpose
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (3 replies)
load more comments (1 reply)
load more comments (9 replies)
[–]TwistedGlassesTin 55 points56 points57 points 18 hours ago (18 children)
Oh come on... I just bought one last month.
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
[–]BusinessBreakfast3Platinum | QC: BTC 28, CC 22 | CRO 5[S] 22
points23 points24 points 18 hours ago (7 children)
It's tough to accept... I have two myself. :(
Security above all, that's it.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]TwistedGlassesTin 12 points13 points14 points 18 hours ago (6 children)
The only thing I'm hoping is the 24 seed phrase must be saved
manually, if some kind of software can retrieve it automatically then
this wallet has lost its purpose.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]chahouaPlatinum | QC: CC 51 | TraderSubs 11 16 points17 points18
points 16 hours ago (0 children)
If it's not done by saving the seed manually then ledger has been
lying to their customers for a long time.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]perfect5-7-with-riceBronze | QC: BTC 21 | CRO 14 | Apple 24 4
points5 points6 points 11 hours ago (3 children)
They confirmed it is loaded from the ledger's secure chip
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (3 replies)
[–]BusinessBreakfast3Platinum | QC: BTC 28, CC 22 | CRO 5[S] 8 points9
points10 points 18 hours ago (0 children)
That's the actual problem!
Now, it turned out that the device can. It's not a cold wallet anymore.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (10 replies)
[–]KlemenKisi 206 points207 points208 points 20 hours ago (52 children)
This is some serious customer misleading practice. If I knew this, I
would never buy it in first place. Basically makes my Ledger worthless
now (ok maybe exaggeration, but still I would rather have a normal
free hot wallet instead of spending 150EUR on the physical one)
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
[–]kirtash93The Ash Ketchum of Crypto | Gotta Catch 'Em All 126
points127 points128 points 18 hours ago (15 children)
This "feature" basically breaks the whole point of a cold wallet. I
dont know who is behind this great idea but it is a pretty dumb
mistake.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]KlemenKisi 29 points30 points31 points 18 hours ago (10 children)
I cant believe what were they thinking, they probably dont follow this
subreddit haha
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]VicBear93 40 points41 points42 points 18 hours ago (7 children)
It's honestly like they thought up the worst thing they could do...and did it.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]KlemenKisi 22 points23 points24 points 18 hours ago (3 children)
So someone had this idea, and someone else had to approve it. Double dumb
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]excubitor15379 10 points11 points12 points 18 hours ago (1 child)
In theory it could be the same person
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (1 reply)
load more comments (1 reply)
load more comments (3 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–]Josefumi12 8 points9 points10 points 18 hours ago (0 children)
Seems like my ledger is slowly become hot hard wallet with an extra
pin because of this feature. I don't agree with this even though they
say it is optional.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (3 replies)
[–]_who_is_they_ 36 points37 points38 points 17 hours ago (5 children)
I wonder if lawsuits are in order. I feel scammed.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]KlemenKisi 28 points29 points30 points 16 hours ago (1 child)
Same here. Kinda want my money back
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]pjlsnapTin 9 points10 points11 points 15 hours ago (0 children)
Yup $150
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (3 replies)
[–]redthepotato 28 points29 points30 points 19 hours ago (3 children)
This. I spent money on something I could have gotten for free when it
could have gone through my crypto investment. Isn't this
misrepresenting a product? The co-founder in the thread still ain't
giving up on his stance that nothing changes.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]TrylksJust joking! 8 points9 points10 points 18 hours ago* (0 children)
If it is broken now and “nothing has changed” then it was always broken.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]KlemenKisi 11 points12 points13 points 18 hours ago (0 children)
As consumers we should have been aware of this before purchase.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (1 reply)
[–]89timeTin 10 points11 points12 points 18 hours ago (5 children)
I want cold storage so bad, but stuff like this makes me stick to hot
wallets and CEXs. I hope things change.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]KlemenKisi 7 points8 points9 points 18 hours ago (4 children)
at least you didnt buy it yet
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]89timeTin 5 points6 points7 points 18 hours ago (3 children)
Question is, which wallet to buy now?
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]excubitor15379 7 points8 points9 points 18 hours ago (0 children)
As far as I know trezor is fine so far
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (2 replies)
[–]BusinessBreakfast3Platinum | QC: BTC 28, CC 22 | CRO 5[S] 12
points13 points14 points 20 hours ago* (9 children)
Fully agree.
The problem becomes bigger for users that have 6 figures or more. I'm
not comfortable with hot wallets
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]KlemenKisi 12 points13 points14 points 19 hours ago (8 children)
yep, I guess best way to handle crypto is really just having 20
wallets with smaller amounts on them...
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (8 replies)
load more comments (10 replies)
[–]moonpumperSilver|QC:CC58,ETH19,BTC16|GMEJungle97|Superstonk522 119
points120 points121 points 17 hours ago (36 children)
Have they confirmed the device actually exposes the seed phrase or do
you have to enter the seed phrase yourself when signing up for their
back up services?
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
[–]maninthecryptosuitPlatinum | QC: ETH 95, CC 18 90 points91 points92
points 15 hours ago (26 children)
The cofounder Nicola confirmed the seed phrase leaves the secure
element..... interestingly in a reply to the exact question you asked.
https://np.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/13itm7u/-/jkbxxhy
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]moonpumperSilver|QC:CC58,ETH19,BTC16|GMEJungle97|Superstonk522 25
points26 points27 points 15 hours ago (0 children)
I saw after some digging. I wish the comment wasn't downvoted into
oblivion so everyone could find out for themselves straight from the
horse's mouth.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (25 replies)
[–]Lobsters_Are_Ugly 22 points23 points24 points 16 hours ago (1 child)
This is a really important point, if it's the former that's just
shocking but I highly doubt ledger would implement that.
Regardless the optics of this is terrible.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]bricarpPlatinum | QC: CC 28 | CRO 22 | ExchSubs 26 8 points9
points10 points 13 hours ago (0 children)
Explicitly confirmed by the co-founder of Ledger. It is indeed the former.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (7 replies)
[–]Snaggletoothlover 29 points30 points31 points 15 hours ago (2 children)
Also Ledger: "Never share your 24-word recovery phrase with anyone-
NOT EVEN LEDGER."
https://www.ledger.com/academy/crypto/what-is-a-recovery-phrase
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
load more comments (2 replies)
[–]hookmanukTin | CRO 7 467 points468 points469 points 19 hours ago
(62 children)
Amazed that OP is being voted down in this thread.
Ledger just announced that they have the technical capability to pull
your seed off your device, and everyone is OK with that?
Crazy.
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
[–]Josefumi12 135 points136 points137 points 19 hours ago (11 children)
Hardwallet should not have the ability to do that. The main reason i
bought hardwallet is to make sure my seed is not exposed and i don't
remember ordering a device that can transmit my seed.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]kirtash93The Ash Ketchum of Crypto | Gotta Catch 'Em All 51
points52 points53 points 18 hours ago* (8 children)
The whole basic point of a cold wallet thrown in the sea. Ledger the
new expensive HOT wallet.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]Lillica_Golden_SHIBBronze | BANANO 5 | TraderSubs 13 4 points5
points6 points 18 hours ago (2 children)
Very disappointing. Thank goodness we have other options at least.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]TheRealestLarryDavid 3 points4 points5 points 15 hours ago (1 child)
what is the best option. i have a ledger for a few years and been out
of touch with what's available
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]Lillica_Golden_SHIBBronze | BANANO 5 | TraderSubs 13 3 points4
points5 points 15 hours ago (0 children)
I'm thinking about getting a Trezor, gonna start looking at models and
reading reviews.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (5 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–]BusinessBreakfast3Platinum | QC: BTC 28, CC 22 | CRO 5[S] 79
points80 points81 points 19 hours ago (11 children)
I'm flabergasted as well.
Trying to save people and they attack you.
Crazy!
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (11 replies)
[–]chance_watersPlatinum | QC: CC 61 | NANO 18 | AvatarTrading 29 32
points33 points34 points 19 hours ago (18 children)
They have not accounced how, at this point it is fully possible you
need to physically enter it for the encryption to occur. There's very
poor communication from them.
These encrypted recovery services are becoming standard though - they
are necessary for adoption. This is on the roadmap for all the
hardware wallets.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]CCNightcoreBronze | Science 11 50 points51 points52 points 18 hours
ago (1 child)
It's a pretty dumb move either way. They should sell it as a different
product and make 2x as much money and not alienate their current
users. Dumbasses
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (1 reply)
[–]WeaselJCDTin | Superstonk 25 13 points14 points15 points 18 hours
ago (7 children)
my comment was deleted, but the founder said in another subreddit that
the devices sends it
"The device sends encrypted shards of your seed to different companies
if you decide to use the service. You can of course still choose to
backup it yourself."
I can't link to it, but you should find it in the ledger subreddit
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (7 replies)
load more comments (8 replies)
load more comments (19 replies)
[–]Fuglypump 23 points24 points25 points 15 hours ago (1 child)
This should turn into a class action lawsuit, I would never have
bought a ledger if I had known they were going to do this.
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
load more comments (1 reply)
[–]UrbanWoodyTin 25 points26 points27 points 14 hours ago (9 children)
They have just posted an update
https://twitter.com/Ledger/status/1658458714771169282
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
load more comments (9 replies)
[–]candlefirez 196 points197 points198 points 19 hours ago (68 children)
Time to build your own hardware wallet. Not your hardware wallet, not
your coins.
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
[–]Questioning-Pen 90 points91 points92 points 16 hours ago (4 children)
If everyone needs to build their own hardware wallets for their coins
to be safe, crypto’s prospects for mass adoption are in severe
trouble.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (4 replies)
[–]BusinessBreakfast3Platinum | QC: BTC 28, CC 22 | CRO 5[S] 44
points45 points46 points 19 hours ago (46 children)
I'm on the verge of buying BitBox02 or Coldcard for my Bitcoin, but
what you're saying might be the ultimate truth at the end. Open source
would definitely make me sleep better.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]redkoilSilver | QC: CC 37, ETH 24, BTC 18 | r/SSB 8 | Privacy 10 15
points16 points17 points 16 hours ago (13 children)
Please be aware that Coldcard has the same possibility to export your
private keys out of the device. I'm not going to trust such a device
and it was the reason I went with ledger..
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]BusinessBreakfast3Platinum | QC: BTC 28, CC 22 | CRO 5[S] 8 points9
points10 points 16 hours ago (12 children)
Yup, just found that out as well.
BitBox02 and Trezor for the final competition.
Trezor One is great, but the 25th word (passphrase) needs to be input
on a PC, not on the device itself. That's the only thing I dislike,
but maybe it's okay.
What would you go for?
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]G4METin | PCmasterrace 22 5 points6 points7 points 14 hours ago (0 children)
Go with bitbox it is made by one of the bitcoin core maintainers, you
can have a 25th word which needs to be entered on the bitbox itself.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (11 replies)
[–]Dazzling_Lime2021Platinum | QC: BAT 146 30 points31 points32 points
18 hours ago (18 children)
I think Coldcard is the best possible hardware we have so far. Not
sure if Bitbox does this, but with the Coldcard you can sign
transactions without ever plugging it into a computer. They have an
attachment where it can be powered by a 9 volt battery and you use SD
cards to broadcast transactions. Neat stuff.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]BusinessBreakfast3Platinum | QC: BTC 28, CC 22 | CRO 5[S] 11
points12 points13 points 18 hours ago (6 children)
Oh wow!
I'll watch some videos on that right away!
Not sure if that's a potential risk, but I'll investigate the pros and
cons of both.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]Dazzling_Lime2021Platinum | QC: BAT 146 13 points14 points15 points
18 hours ago (4 children)
Yeah I'm actually looking for a second hardware wallet (currently
using Trezor). Almost bought a ledger and I'm glad I didn't now lol.
Might have to check out Bitbox too, the Coldcard is a bit expensive
but it does have a lot of security features. Check out BTC Sessions on
Youtube, he did a good video on it
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]Aim_SuxPlatinum | QC: ETH 135, CC 346 | TraderSubs 135 5 points6
points7 points 16 hours ago (3 children)
Whats the best choice for someone who holds coins/tokens on multiple
networks like BTC, ETH, Cosmos...etc ?
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]fnetmaPlatinum | QC: CC 21 | ADA 6 4 points5 points6 points 14
hours ago (1 child)
Probably Trezor
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (1 reply)
load more comments (1 reply)
load more comments (1 reply)
load more comments (11 replies)
[–]poyosoPlatinum | QC: XLM 59, CC 56 | SHIB 16 | AvatarTrading 39 8
points9 points10 points 18 hours ago (5 children)
How can you trust those devices though? How can you be certain that
they also dont leak? Because they said so?
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]BusinessBreakfast3Platinum | QC: BTC 28, CC 22 | CRO 5[S] 21
points22 points23 points 18 hours ago (4 children)
They're open source.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]special_onigiri 6 points7 points8 points 16 hours ago (1 child)
As a software developer, I'll never get tired of saying Open Source is
King. Base is public everyone can contribute and build on top of it,
which means variety, which in turn gives people more options and will
spread thin those who are trying to exploit vulnerabilities and
exploits.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (1 reply)
[–]Mr_Bob_FergusonPlatinum | QC: CC 445 7 points8 points9 points 17
hours ago (1 child)
And to expand on this point further...
Basically all the biggest encryption algorithms used for security in
general are open source.
Open source means that plenty of eyes from various organisations (and
individuals) can look over it.
And just because people can see the code doesn't mean that it any less secure.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (1 reply)
load more comments (7 replies)
load more comments (16 replies)
[–]Maxx3141Platinum | QC: CC 2677 139 points140 points141 points 20
hours ago (54 children)
I think it's still important to share the full details. If I got it
right, the device produces three shards with a concept similar to
Shamir’s Secret Sharing, and shares it with Ledger and two partner
companies. Two of these shards are needed to recover your seed and
knowing one shard gives you no relevant entropy advantage when trying
to brute-force it.
With that being said, I still hate the feature. This still heavily
relies on trust, and the connected PC can at least request the shards
- opening new ways to exploit it with man-in-the-middle or social
engineering attacks.
The best solution would be offering a separate fw without this feature
for the "fundamentalists" - similar to Trezor and Bitbox which offer
BTC-only-firmwares for their devices. Still I'd have a hard time to
recommend a Ledger to newcomers from now on.
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
[–]R0Y-BATTYBronze 53 points54 points55 points 19 hours ago* (13 children)
100% this firmware that allows this feature needs to be optional,
otherwise I’d be out, in reality you never really know what they are
putting on a device when they update firmware so there is always a
matter of trust. But yeah this isn’t a good move by them and a very
odd thing to do for the small amount of people who might want it. I
will wait to see what is said on the coming days before having a
public meltdown like BusinessBreakfast is having, though I share their
concerns.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]Qu1bbz 47 points48 points49 points 16 hours ago (1 child)
You realise that it doesn't matter if it's optional right? The fact
that it's even possible to extract your seed literally breaks the
entire purpose of a hardware wallet. As soon as you have to trust
ledger to not extract your seed phrase you might as well use a bank?
Besides ledger themselves this leaves the possibility for your ledger
firmware to be compromised by a 3rd party to be able to extract your
seed.
The firmware is also proprietary, so who knows if this feature didn't
exist already and whether or not they already extracted everyones
keys?
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (1 reply)
[–]grandphubaSilver | QC: CC 56 | ADA 49 | ModeratePolitics 199 38
points39 points40 points 17 hours ago (3 children)
100% this firmware that allows this feature needs to be optional,
otherwise I’d be out
You don't seem to be grasping the extent of the issue.
The fact the hardware can leak your keys should be more than enough to
put you off, regardless of the firmware.
Firmware and software can be updated, the hardware can't.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (3 replies)
[–]Lillica_Golden_SHIBBronze | BANANO 5 | TraderSubs 13 4 points5
points6 points 18 hours ago (1 child)
I hope they come up with more information on it, although I think it
is very unlikely they actually say anything that makes this situation
look better. Anyway, the simple fact there is a backdoor now makes the
whole thing extremely concerning to me.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]VicBear93 4 points5 points6 points 17 hours ago (0 children)
The Crypto space isn't short of people looking to exploit anything
they can either. If something can be exploited, then someone will find
a way. Its a disaster waiting to happen.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (5 replies)
[–]chestyspankersTin 6 points7 points8 points 13 hours ago (0 children)
I am surprised that in a crypto subreddit, so few people seem to be
aware of Shamir's secret sharing or what an encrypted shard means. To
most it appears they think their seed phrase is leaked directly from
the device with no checks in place.
I agree with your assessment and caveats, I guess I am just shocked
that I had to scroll so far to find a well balanced comment about
encryption on a subreddit that is for enthusiasts about encrypted
currency.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]Mr_Bob_FergusonPlatinum | QC: CC 445 4 points5 points6 points 17
hours ago (1 child)
Still I'd have a hard time to recommend a Ledger to newcomers from now on.
I think we're now going to see an instead dive in recommendations in the sub.
But I think that your other suggestion will also come true, that
they'll offer a version without the feature ...or just remove it
completely.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (1 reply)
[–]SqueezitgirdleSilver | QC: CC 78 | CRO 42 | ExchSubs 43[🍰] 6
points7 points8 points 16 hours ago (2 children)
If you had to provide your key manually to these three companies it
would be fine.
The problem, if I understood correctly, is the fact that it can lift
your key for you automatically if you pay for their service. Ledger
led us to believe that wasn't possible.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (2 replies)
[–]BusinessBreakfast3Platinum | QC: BTC 28, CC 22 | CRO 5[S] 31
points32 points33 points 20 hours ago (21 children)
If I got it right, the device produces three shards...
TLDR It CAN expose your seed. By definition, it's not a cold wallet anymore.
That's all that matters.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]Maxx3141Platinum | QC: CC 2677 32 points33 points34 points 20 hours
ago (20 children)
Every hw-wallet can expose your seed once, otherwise you couldn't do a
backup. This still makes them cold wallets because it stays offline.
The ledger won't ever share the seed without you confirming it, and
still I don't want this feature in my hw-wallet at all. I would agree
to call it a "hot hw-wallet" from now on.
There is a chance this feature can only be used once after setup and
will be disabled afterwards, similar to the seed backup. We don't know
the full details for now.
Also I think it's terrible how they just sneakily rolled it out
without a major announcement with technical details.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (20 replies)
load more comments (12 replies)
[–]yuumonadi 14 points15 points16 points 16 hours ago (13 children)
I use a Nano S. am I safe?
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
[–]oximoran 11 points12 points13 points 13 hours ago (2 children)
Looks like S will not support this "feature," but that's not a
guarantee of anything.
What Ledger devices are compatible with Ledger Recover?
Currently, Ledger Recover is compatible with Ledger Nano X. In the
near future, it will be compatible with Ledger Nano S Plus and Ledger
Stax as well.
⚠️ Ledger Recover isn't compatible with Ledger Nano S.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (2 replies)
[–]MindTheMindForMind 9 points10 points11 points 15 hours ago (3 children)
Same question, they didn’t specify if this feature is only a Nano X thing.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (3 replies)
load more comments (6 replies)
[–]hippofireTin | 4 months old 16 points17 points18 points 20 hours
ago (5 children)
What’s the risk in not updated the firmware ever and just transferring
funds to it?
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
[–]BusinessBreakfast3Platinum | QC: BTC 28, CC 22 | CRO 5[S] 30
points31 points32 points 19 hours ago (2 children)
It's closed source, nobody knows.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (2 replies)
[–]Qu1bbz 13 points14 points15 points 16 hours ago (0 children)
Potential risks:
It's proprietary software so this feature might already exist and
worst case ledger already backed up your seed and can use your funds
however they please.
The government confiscated your ledger and can get access to your
seed through the ledger company by making them update your firmware
and extracting the seed.
A 3rd party might be able to compromise the firmware of your
ledger, extract the seed and steal your funds.
The fact that the possibility to extract the seed even exists is a
fundamental flaw and there is no solution other than not using a
ledger. The point of a hardware wallet is that it SHOULD be impossible
on a hardware-level to extract the seed. If a simple firmware update
is enough... the whole point is gone.
At this point ledger is nothing more than a bank you trust. On top of
this they already got compromised in the past, so good luck to anyone
who actually puts their trust in them.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]Zwiebel1Platinum | QC: CC 432, BNB 20 | ExchSubs 20 11 points12
points13 points 19 hours ago (0 children)
You don't know if the functions used in that firmware update existed
before aswell. It might have existed for a long time and just went by
unnoticed. Its only a minor threat to security but are you really
willing to take chances if you bought a cold storage exactly for that
purpose?
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]ToufuNow 40 points41 points42 points 19 hours ago* (9 children)
The big problem here is how would they implement this service. If they
just ask the user to input the seed phrase to the ledger live and send
to them. Then it's just plain stupid but not a threat to an educated
users with basic sanity. However, if they can generate these social
recovery phrases jusy by asking users to connect their ledger to the
ledger live, then it would be a serious problem, as it means they
indeed have a backdoor to extract the seed phrases from the security
chip.
>From my humble opinion, the best solution to implement this (assuming
someone actually need this feature in the first place and there is
really no such backdoor to extract the seed pharse), is to make an app
running on ledger device that requires the user to input the seed
phrases to the ledger again. This app would do the cryptographic
calculation to generate these social recovery phrases and the user can
then submit them to online custody services provided by Ledger. In
this way, Ledger just act as an offline cryptographic calculator
processing the input seed pharse, and has nothing to do with the seed
phrase stored inside the security chip.
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
[–]TrylksJust joking! 8 points9 points10 points 17 hours ago (2 children)
The “security chip” should be generating the social recovery, and the
passphrase never leaving it.
But “security chip” sounds like bullshit, TBH.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (2 replies)
[–]BusinessBreakfast3Platinum | QC: BTC 28, CC 22 | CRO 5[S] 26
points27 points28 points 19 hours ago (4 children)
Fully agree. Then it wouldn't be a problem.
Unfortunately, the co-founder confirmed that the device can leak data.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]ToufuNow 18 points19 points20 points 19 hours ago (1 child)
It would be scary if that is the case. The existence of such method to
extract the seed pharse is a serious threat to all Ledger user. Even
if they choose not to use this service, a malicious program lurk in
the computer/smartphone that the Ledger connects to can exploit such
interface and cheat ledger to give out the stored seed phrase.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]BusinessBreakfast3Platinum | QC: BTC 28, CC 22 | CRO 5[S] 10
points11 points12 points 19 hours ago (0 children)
Exactly.
It's game over. I'm buying Trezor and Coldcard today.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (1 reply)
[–]RealVoldemortPlatinum | QC: CC 52 32 points33 points34 points 19
hours ago (3 children)
Wtf are they doing. What the actual f
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
[–]partymslPlatinum | QC: CC 702 | r/WSB 16 3 points4 points5 points
18 hours ago (0 children)
Ruining their own business in the pursuit of more profits. Just as all
do at a certain point.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]Mr_Bob_FergusonPlatinum | QC: CC 445 6 points7 points8 points 17
hours ago (0 children)
Wtf are they doing
It's a really strange decision.
They should know their customer base well enough to know that trust
and security and the major factors that people are looking for.
And now they have ruined it.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (1 reply)
[–]crypteningTin | QC: BTC 28 | BCH critic 8 points9 points10 points
19 hours ago (1 child)
They already leaked everybody's name and home address so this latest
ledger service allows criminals to be less violent towards us.
Thank you ledger;/
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
load more comments (1 reply)
[–]Intelligent_Page2732Platinum | QC: CC 918 20 points21 points22
points 20 hours ago (4 children)
It's a disturbing development, I would immediatly opt out of this,
even the chance that it can expose your seed phrase is already to much
for me.
Besides that, if the French government is knocking down their doors, I
would get out of French if I were Ledger to stay in business.
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
[–]BusinessBreakfast3Platinum | QC: BTC 28, CC 22 | CRO 5[S] 15
points16 points17 points 20 hours ago (1 child)
Too late for all that.
Open source only from now on. As you say, the fact that it CAN is more
than enough.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (1 reply)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–]slasula 8 points9 points10 points 18 hours ago (0 children)
oh ffs I’ve just finished moving everything over to ledger
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
[–]FenweekoooBronze | MiningSubs 15 9 points10 points11 points 15
hours ago (2 children)
sigh.... has trezor fucked up anything i should be aware of in the last bit?
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
load more comments (2 replies)
[–]SandboChangTin | r/AMD 102 6 points7 points8 points 12 hours ago (1 child)
Ledger is officially done for, the damage is irreversible as by
introducing the service they have exposed the fact that their device
can be hacked that way, which was thought to be impossible.
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
load more comments (1 reply)
[–]Alarming_Associate47Tin 6 points7 points8 points 15 hours ago (0 children)
How to wreck you company in seconds 101
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
[–]Knotley-Hunt-Brick 12 points13 points14 points 19 hours ago (5 children)
ummm should i cancel my ledger order and order rasberry pi instead ?
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
[–]helobro11 10 points11 points12 points 15 hours ago (0 children)
Yeah bro
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]BusinessBreakfast3Platinum | QC: BTC 28, CC 22 | CRO 5[S] 12
points13 points14 points 19 hours ago (0 children)
Yes!
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (3 replies)
[–]OutTopTin | 3 months old 6 points7 points8 points 17 hours ago (0 children)
Time to switch
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
[–]RicothebuttonpusherTin | Politics 60 5 points6 points7 points 13
hours ago (0 children)
What’s the next best cold wallet to use? Trezor?
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
[–]Bunker_BeansPlatinum | QC: CC 224, BTC 40 | ADA 18 14 points15
points16 points 18 hours ago (2 children)
Glad I went with Trezor over Ledger.
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
load more comments (2 replies)
[–]EdgeLord19941 10 points11 points12 points 19 hours ago (4 children)
Hope this isn't available on older devices like the nano S?
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
[–]BusinessBreakfast3Platinum | QC: BTC 28, CC 22 | CRO 5[S] 7 points8
points9 points 19 hours ago (3 children)
We will never know.
I have a nano S, but after this news, I don't feel safe.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
load more comments (3 replies)
[–]R0Y-BATTYBronze 3 points4 points5 points 19 hours ago (4 children)
Is it only on the Nano - X ?
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
load more comments (4 replies)
[–]CognizantSynapsidPlatinum | QC: CC 42 | r/WSB 43 4 points5 points6
points 13 hours ago (0 children)
This blows. Own two ledgers. The inconvenience continues
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
[–]redbullandranchTin 12 points13 points14 points 17 hours ago* (3 children)
So, we get posts all the time with new users saying they were "hacked"
and lost their stash. Then everybody bombards them with some version
of "you weren't hacked, it's your fault".
This Ledger change makes you think. How long has it been in effect?
Maybe some of those hacks were caused by this because nobody knew
about it. Maybe it's already been compromised...
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
load more comments (3 replies)
[–]neverreddit1984 10 points11 points12 points 18 hours ago (1 child)
Ledger just signed their own obituary.
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
load more comments (1 reply)
[–]VeludoVeludoPlatinum | QC: CC 118 3 points4 points5 points 19 hours
ago (2 children)
Guess I will just memorize my seed phrase and pray telepathy won't
work anytime soon.
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
[–]daken15Bronze 4 points5 points6 points 14 hours ago (1 child)
Just last week a paper came out of a team of researches that could
read a mouse mind and see an image of what the mouse was seeing, so
not far away.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]VeludoVeludoPlatinum | QC: CC 118 3 points4 points5 points 14 hours
ago (0 children)
Fuck... aluminium foil hats it is.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]TheJustinG2002Silver | QC: CC 86 | LRC 49 3 points4 points5 points
15 hours ago (1 child)
I have a Nano S Plus. I read it's only for the X. It's still an
absolute atrocity but I hope things don't get worse. I'm not looking
to buy a new hardware wallet anytime soon.
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
load more comments (1 reply)
[–]zzzz4xzzzz__Tin 3 points4 points5 points 14 hours ago (0 children)
Mf my life’s money is on my damn ledger fuck! Gotta get a Trezor!
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
[–]SufficientNet9227Tin 3 points4 points5 points 13 hours ago (1 child)
we need a international class action lawsuit for a refund and refund
all the fees to transfer...
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
[–]BusinessBreakfast3Platinum | QC: BTC 28, CC 22 | CRO 5[S] 5 points6
points7 points 13 hours ago (0 children)
Yes, let's do it!
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
[–]QptimisedTin 7 points8 points9 points 20 hours ago (4 children)
Newbie here. If not Ledger, any other good cold wallets for recommendation?
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
load more comments (4 replies)
[–]BlockChad 2 points3 points4 points 19 hours ago (6 children)
This is optional though right? You have to opt in?
permalink
embed
save
report
give award
reply
[–]BusinessBreakfast3Platinum | QC: BTC 28, CC 22 | CRO 5[S] 11
points12 points13 points 19 hours ago (5 children)
Yes.
But the device can expose data to the internet. That's the scary part.
permalink
embed
save
parent
report
give award
reply
1
0
Mortal Error: The Shot That Killed JFK (1992) by Bonar Menninger (ISBN 0-312-08074-3) alleges that while Oswald did attempt to assassinate JFK and did succeed in wounding him, the fatal shot was accidentally fired by Secret Service agent George Hickey, who was riding in the Secret Service follow-up car directly behind the presidential limousine.
The theory alleges that after the first two shots were fired the motorcade sped up while Hickey was attempting to respond to Oswald's shots and he lost his balance and accidentally pulled the trigger of his AR-15 and the shot fatally hit JFK. Hickey's testimony says otherwise: "At the end of the last report (shot) I reached to the bottom of the car and picked up the AR 15 rifle, cocked and loaded it, and turned to the rear." (italics added).[501] George Hickey sued Menninger in April 1995 for what he had written in Mortal Error. The case was dismissed as its statute of limitations had run out.
The theory received public attention in 2013 when it was supported by Colin McLaren's book and documentary titled JFK: The Smoking Gun (ISBN 978-0-7336-3044-6).
LBJ apparently believed this and there was a report of gunpowder smell at ground level that day. Oswald was high above on the sixth floor. Carcano used by Oswald also drilled neat holes - unlike AR-15 rounds.
1
0
For my 2c the Secret Service killed JFK while trying to protect him from Oswald.
Two acoustics experts said there was a 95 percent certainty that the recording revealed that four shots had been fired at the presidential motorcade.
Oswald fires once straight ahead but bullet fizzles.
Oswald fires again misses and hits kerb. Another shot - the ' Magic Bullet " hits two targets, Gov and Potus.
Fourth shot coincides with accidental firing of ' Dum Dum " round from SS car behind Potus.
Gunpowder smell reported at ground level - Oswald was well above that and indoors!
And no more neatly drilled Carcano holes - a chuck of Potus head goes flying up in air before falling on trunk where Mrs K recovers it.
No CIA plot required where stupidity and insanity will cover it. Oswald's motives also possibly included ' South will rise again ' resentment against arch-Yankee, JFK and a large dollop of Marxist-Communism that started when O was 15 in NYC. O saw himself as a left-fascist revolutionary and took a pot-shot at a local rightwinger before this.
TL/DR Lee Harvey Oswald CAUSED the death which was then obfuscated to some extent by the US Secret Service.
1
0
How to take action on digital crime?
by Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many 17 May '23
by Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many 17 May '23
17 May '23
Paypal confirmed the 72975 number (rather than 729725) my family gets
confirmation codes is not owned by them.
This is very clear evidence our web is persistently compromised.
Personally I blame my insane behavior on this compromise and years of
digital gaslighting.
Does anybody know how to take action on this evidence from paypal?
1
0
Overthrowing the Network State (OTNS) is a series in collaboration with Blockchaingov where we critique The Network State by Balaji Srinivasan while also pulling out the salvageable parts and concepts in discussion with a variety of guests. We are overall critical of Balaji’s specific ideas in the book, but we want to discuss it with intellectual honesty and highlight the larger concepts around how these technologies are and could subvert state structures.
https://theblockchainsocialist.com/otns-network-states-is-what-you-get-when…
My trial - your funeral
1
0