September 2013 - cypherpunks - lists.cpunks.org

Re: FLYINGPIG // Tor
by John Young 14 Sep '13

14 Sep '13

May it be true the spies admit defeat. But not likely, more likely a ruse, for they are highly trained liars and tricksters. Feints are commonplace to disarm and delude opponents. Pardons of Manning and Snowden, shutdown investigating of Assange, and several other intimidating and chilling operations would be persuasive. Hearings on abuse would help air the stench. But will not eliminate the rot of secrecy. These formulaic conciliatory gestures would be cheap discounts of giant budgets for ancient practices of extorting money from the public, for, what else, protection, protection against government defined threats, identified by secret means. The spying apparatus will re-surge as it has forever, governments cannot survive without spying on its taxpayers. IRS and global revenue agencies the main data collectors on citizens and subjects from birth to death for everyone everywhere, even spies. SSN the ubiquitous UID. Got a problem with that, go to jail. Tax refusers and evaders more stigmatized and loathed than terrorists. Joint Terrorism Task Forces around the world spend more time chasing and prosecuting voluminous tax cheats then the tiny number of terrorists. With their contractors this produces handsome tax revenue, confiscations and fines. Prison populations too. Spying was invented to catch tax cheats and assure revenue for government operation and rule, and nothing unites the world's governments more than that essential transfusion of money to sustain government beneficiares, in the US the three branches, state and local. Military merely cops to control obedient payment. In NYC, the racket of Wall Street is to pay NYPD to stay away from finance through the Police Foundation. The recently published "Enemies Within," by two AP reporters recount how this has come about through the services of David Cohen, formerly CIA Director of Operations, who has set a completely unaccountable spying operation. Prior to setting this up, Ray Kelly, NYPD chief, and Cohen worked for Wall Street firms. Mayor Bloomberg happily endorsing the 1% bribery methodology. Nobody should believe this will change without a lot more than hopeful dreaming. At 08:08 AM 9/14/2013, you wrote: >On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 11:43 AM, John Young <jya(a)pipeline.com> wrote: > > ... (now even Clapper is applauding > > the Snowden campaign, which stinks of the fix is in on > > what to release and when). > >MI6 also downplaying. > >but if you read between the lines, this is signalling defeat. > >they're fucked; the docs will leak, ongoing, in a tight fisted drip of >insufficient and insufferable dribble... perhaps this is their zen >state - nothing to do but see how much is burned, and continues to be >burned, for months and years ahead. > >watch for indications of political fights and influence, lobbying, >persuasion, LOVEINT blackmail? > cut part or much funding and they've really got a problem!

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[4] hash funktion
by brian carroll 14 Sep '13

14 Sep '13

// attempt at a basic comparative example here... --- code play --- first to reference the previous transparent ziplock with letters (ACID) to provide conceptual framework for what follows... and how the *interpretive* aspect of the code, its encoding/decoding and encrypting/decrypting, may likewise relate in some way as a transformative, calculative process (if not phase-change). not going theory, just abstraction into a realm of N-dimensions and probability versus linear equation exegesis... here are some online resources then for examining the letters [A,C,I,D], as recombinational variables: #Internet Anagram Server mentioned two solutions: http://wordsmith.org/anagram/index.html CAD I, and ACID #Scrabble Word Finder lists 8 word solutions: http://www.scrabblefinder.com/solver/ 4 letters: acid, cadi, caid 3 letters: aid, cad 2 letters: ad, ai, id And other scrabble word searches find additional, including 'da' and 'i' So there are these permutative interactions that can occur within and between signs (letters and their arrangement, though also symbols) and this is mapped out to some degree with anagrams, palindromes, ambigrams, rebus', kangaroo words (word within a word), and so on. #Palindromes, anagrams, and 9 other names for alphabetical antics http://theweek.com/article/index/244111/palindromes-anagrams-and-9-other-na… In terms of language, this is a zone of paradox where multiple meanings could exist in a 'string' that could have more than one interpretation, say the word 'top' and 'top', one indicating 'the upper part of something' and the other 'a child's toy' via dictionary reference. yet without context how can you determine which viewpoint is correct: is there actually a 1:1 meaning or is it one to many? Thus, in some sense, weighted given the environment it occupies for observation. Thus paradox, though also superposition, and an aspect of the unknown or mystery within the ordinary and everyday that in a binary worldview would seek to determine a 1:1 answer and discard the other 'variables', and linearly "progress" in such computations down a particular _unique path that then is equated with _the correct path, analytically, even though potentially arbitrary or flawed. Any such search engines for 'words' can be broken via substitutions, as mentioned before, and doing so would limit or bound the interpretation to a smaller set. Thus using a number one instead of capital 'i' causes the library reference to ignore the variable, discard it from consideration, and only analyze ACD; returning only 3 sets: cad, ad, da. So it moves from 8 words to 3 words due to illiteracy or incapacity to translate or substitute, as mentioned previously. Yet once again consider the ACID letters, in particular the letter 'I' again as it may be hypothetically or conceptually connected to the letter D and result in new letter potentials: P, d, q, b --- likewise the letter 'C' could be turned sideways into the letters U and n. Note the transgression of upper and lowercase alphabets, opening up a much wider range of letter combinations via allowing multiple scales to co-exist in the evaluative framework. Further, the letters C and I can be combined into a second letter D. Thus A,C,I,D, can become [A,C,I,D,D,U,n,p,d,q,b] as a potential string, if 'suspending judgement' and allowing time to configure and reconfigured *in a probability space* these co-existing parallel potentials. inputting the string (aciddunpdqb) at the Scrabble Word Finder leads to 110 words, with six letters the highest word count of eleven total. A question being, is the 'string' ACID really only ACID, as if 1:1 in terms of code and its meaning, and if 'decrypted' perhaps CAD I would be a result; and likewise, what if this could range to 110 words, without considering two or more letter acronyms and abbreviations, and then, each of these unpacked "variables" could potentially be related to one another as a structural framework from which to further reveal or construct code, such as via the subset words: candid, baud, pin. Perhaps keys or a bermuda triangle zone that submerges or reveals purposefully scuttled content. This location related to another inside the same hash function: cab, pain, quid; or yet another: cabin, cupid, id. Essentially sets related if not collided and run against other sets, one against many, symmetries or asymmetrical dynamics, spins, planes, fields, layers, levels, zones of meaning shared and unshared. Perhaps someone could even have the key and yet get lost in the ever expanding forest of never ending choices, thus: the labyrinth is constructed by each interaction and decision and without the correct context, variables in their superposition could remain hidden in their correct interpretation (A=A) how could you know without an observer of shared identity and same model of empirical truth to reference, given N-possibilities for each choice and evaluation, potentially, as this is bounded by whatever the keyspace may be: only capital letters, alphanumeric plus symbols, whatever. and likewise, in terms of computation and equipment, could this same HASH function be recreated _without identical equipment, due to the floating point aspect (if it were to still exist) in computating irrational numbers, given a necessary boundary to stop and round up or down at that limit, thus forcing alphabets or equations into one hash scenario or another-- and could enough of this be controlled to even allow two machines to function identically or may there inherently be noise (chaos) between them, and so it is an issue of approximation, creating the same structures via unpacking a superposition ~bit-string and yet having variability still within these parallel models It just reminds so much of enigma and patch cords that perhaps the the RNG with patch-cord like custom circuit wiring could tweak machines to a shared match or 'entangled parallelism' that technology may be limited in allowing due to limits to standardization at the level of unique processors with slightly different characteristics, processor temperatures or working transistors that could somehow effect computation, speed, rounding, at what boundary the evaluation is bounded. perhaps different bounding could provide different codes or access: abc^10 opening up one hash and abc^2 opening up another entirely different subset universe in terms of what appears in its relational structuring. different tech, different hashspace (?) given how much infinity can be modeled and to what extent -- And thus what might keys be. what if the starting variable was used multiple times, such as opened at one level and then reopened at another, and these compared, or some mathematical computation occurring to parse each against the other, and using that derivation for the keyspace. The idea of custom wiring in addition just unpacking then potentially allowing one version of crypto-signage to be used many times and in many different ways, as if signpost even or relay or storage device, as if such crypto could be infrastructure, if not alive like a sensor network in terms of feeding and routing information through such matrices it is curious if perhaps this is opposite the idea of the hash, in that it is an inversion or reverse hash function or something such, due to its exponentiality of parallelism and superposition versus linearity that appears standard to the naive outside observer of this. Just to provide a different example entirely, for consideration- imagine a two variable string, [v][w], in this superposition context. Despite the known transmutations such as the letters being flipped and turned, such that two letters v = w, or when flipped could equate to acronym 'mn', it is more than a single letter as the variable and instead, say, the signs S and O that are overlapped for a single variable [v], such that their layering appears as if the number 8 or letter B. and likewise, a second variable as letters F and L traced atop one another, resulting in the combined letter E, much like a Jasper Johns painting or 7 segment or 16 segment display. In this approach, [B][E] then could, as a 'string' carry these other letter potentials within it or could no longer be decipherable as a standard alphabet letter and instead as a structural pattern, and then computation could occur via breaking down these patterns in that abstraction, mapped to potential letters and numbers and their recombination. For instance the letter B is equivalent to number 8 and via 7-segment displays, encompasses all numbers 0-9 in its geometry. Thus what if [3][E] were suddenly evaluated in a context of letters [S,O,B,E,L,F] and its 47 words unpacked from this starting point; say 'fobs' <=> 'lobes', as a subset universe within which, via another key, may match to a circuit elsewhere or provide meaning and thus 'shared framework for interpretation' whether intentional or unintentional. likewise, lesbo and sol, fe, Io, os & so -- leading into potential transcendent oblivion... or other dimensionality beyond what can be determined, predicted or controlled even- the RNG as REG, tapping cosmic circuitry as if interdimensional tendrils of noosphere --- another aspect --- in terms of superposition variables, the length of [x] in the string [x,y,z] could be _anything. the bit as container could hold a bounded infinity, it could hold a mathematical function, it could hold five numbers or a hundred million trillion, or could nest or subset other variables in chained relations, such that x = xz. and thus a larger string could generate more complex entry code or certain structures, yet it may be unrelated to solving the interior of the hashing package because its inside is larger than its outside symbols especially relevant here, HIOX, fractal codes, ciphers within signage so that it is beyond ordinary language to begin with, such an approach could be two variable and encompass a vast universe of relations, say as a partial HIOX symbol (16 segment) or fractal-based sign of letters embedded one inside the next, say a Y being letters I and V combined, yet far beyond this and into a keyword written inside a starting letter, at scale, and moving downward or across, and having that be a variable that unpacks certain letters and characters and not others, thus potentially relating this outside with inside via the starting string, thus providing context via its superposition options that may be more complex "structurally", all of this requiring a standard approach that is shared, grounded in truth and logical reasoning, to allow 'the language as code' to be useful for shared communication, carrying ideas, or being the idea- seemingly about providing context, creating the conditions allowing for such interpretation to exist also, it should be noted that this could easily involve numbers and so alphanumerics could exist in a state of superposition between their mathematical and linguistic meaning, again 'variable' in terms of interpretive framework; for instance, a number 4 may be missing its hypotenuse or upper-left bracket -- given character style or typographic standard -- and thus it may look instead like a sideways letter T, in some sense. And thus the glyph representing sideways-T could *potentially* occupy both the realm of the letter T and-or the number 4 in terms of superposition, given that it is somewhat corrupted or incomplete or has extra information (such as Q and O similarly). thus a starting bit-string could have strange symbols that could map into letters and numbers via transformation (its de|con-struction via constructions and destructions) of subset relations and dynamics, unpacking particular characters and relations, creating a particular type of noise field for other content, perhaps framing it for interpretation. And thus language itself, tending towards noise if not illegible, may look like actual hash code to start the string, then unpack its contained information based on these variables that may normalize within certain parameters and not others, providing both signal and noise- and perhaps having multiple keys or no keys and to be accessed or referenced via temporary tunings or harmonizations, as if emergent data, or a particular correlated state of shared mind, et cetera --- example --- so i could provide a ~bit-string (do not know the correct word so that is a conceptual placeholder until someone those knows what this is define the concepts accurately) such as the following and it could be assumed to operate and function within these stated dynamics... [nv+x!] in other words: [n][v][+][x][!] And here is what i think is peculiarly interesting- is that i could shared with you 'the key' that created this string, for a subsequent parallel hash function, via superposition, yet it may or may not be relevant to what is unpacked on the inside unless it were activated, and thus it is like an on/off switch that may not be in the interpretative context and so can be routed around if compromised, or used as ruse and trap to set up alternative interior corridors and pathways to checkmate mimics via false perspectives. so, running through the example... potentials: n, c, u, v, n, >, <, +, t, j, r, x, +, v, y, ., l, i, ! Note duplications are added for combination potentials, especially useful for acronyms or symbolic 'compressed' meaning, mirroring of palindromes, etc. likewise, punctuation is allowed for its dual-use language capacity, the exclamation point rotated into the lowercase letter i, and period useful perhaps in other ways as well. As with plus sign and the lowercase t. the issue of archetypal transference alongside transformative mutation, as if organization, allowing for entropic reversal or coherence gains even via losses, such is the "calculus" of the signage, as if moving from concept 1 (speed) to concept 2 (acceleration) yet within a different conceptual realm, wide ranging if not arbitrary and thus the issue of *potential*, as with potential energy- *potential meaning* and potential interpretation, framework, structure, that may exist momentarily or collapse given shared or unshared identity, referent, whatnot. so it would be possible to say 'cat' is what generated the original string, the upside-down caret (^) removed of the crossbar a hint or clue to the uppercase A at another scale (uppercase versus lower), and the plus sign functioning as a category-crossing letter t. and that could be the basis for generating the hash funktion, via this string-- and it may or may not be relevant, it may or may not be used beyond this threshold, it may or may not be the framework once the interior is unpacked, and this depends on the keyspace and how many variables will be referenced on the inside, though could also be on the outside as well, and only [n,v,+] could be used in their permutations and nested recombinations- meaning different hashes could be referenced and made active depending either on generating key, as a partial string (thus secret) or it could be entirely open and yet of an unshared POV, bounded and limited in observation via threshold of eavesdropper, and thus their biasing could force only some variables and not others, which it is proposed may make it nearly impossible to decipher externally without knowing what is being communicated in a given framework or context that is only partially observed and evaluated. such that it may not add up the same, just as unpacking the string with different hardware capabilities may generate different random interrelations as noise though also structure, if somehow calculations are not tuned A:A and instead it is closer to A1=A2, though compensated for. it is as if relativism itself is the encryption envelope, its warping skew distortion where the data can hide within and between and the revealed structures *whatever they may be* could be one-time pad connections or stable grids or force fields spanning multiple such hash universes that interconnect or feed data one into another again perhaps like wormholes further, phonetics could be used for substitutions such that the original lowercase letter 'c' and its subset [v, ^, c, n] could be replaced by 'k' such that kat=cat in terms of pronunciation yet has no trace of a c from which to decipher via a dictionary search, unless phonetic. in this way the original string [nv+x!] could instead be: [kv+x!] and generate an entirely different inferiority to reference, which may or may not be keyed to 'cat' in any given instance, unless it were to be, yet may not reveal anything even if the key is known, given perspective and variable timing and interpretations. it could be throwaway or only active on occasion or a divining method such as organizing cards out of a Tarot deck for reading, a process that establishes interpretation though in a magical context, and thus perhaps more ritual or procedural yet still an important vital step. i.e. if everything is in tune, because the arbitrary could cut either way if not 'literate' and capable of handling this kind of code and interpretation as it were- it could drive you crazy of all the myriad possibilities, this is a infinitesimal example and it would be in the collection of all various techniques and approaches and evaluation and surveying their coherence and decoherence dynamics and related functionality that perhaps a new approach to coding could be developed in this alphanumeric and symbolic parallelism where sign=sign is essentially outside of the language as it operates in consciousness, unless brought into a realm of shared truth (1) and shared perspectives for exchange. thus creating or *revealing* that realm, essentially navigable infinity and issues of markers, lighthouses, obelisks, waypoints, ecosystems and ecologies, mazes, traps, that mapping data or mining, storing, conveying, relaying information within preexisting contexts, frameworks, could be utilized- made infrastructural, another paradigm entirely that aligns with consciousness, not the deadzone of the silicon wasteland as if final destiny of life with the singularity, leading to death and nothingness as ideal future. current and currency. a realm for those literate and of shared awareness. keeping the lies and the liars and their falsehood out of the equations, trapping them in their own false perspectives and thus bounding the interaction while the false perspective is dismantled, freezing everything binary in its place while the word keeping spinning. this, perhaps a reverse-vertigo effect of the nonsensibility of the perceived world, though from another point of view. the oppressive ideology extinguished, no longer capable of sustaining the lies and controlling events from an external position, losing power of 'shared awareness' by dissimilar or dismantled structures-- sitting ducks. quack,quack.

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Re: FLYINGPIG // Tor
by John Young 14 Sep '13

14 Sep '13

It continues to mystify why Greenwald and others crop and redact documents and slides but show them to staff at O Globo, Guardian, Der Spiegel, New York Times, ProPublica, Washington Post and perhaps others yet to be disclosed with bombshell releases (now even Clapper is applauding the Snowden campaign, which stinks of the fix is in on what to release and when). O Globo videos show glimpses of slides which are then further redacted or cropped for release as slides alone. Schneier claims to be working with Greenwald so he is presumably seeing full views of docs and slides. Yet he sustains a steady beat of surprise and outrage, almost as if overly defensive about who knows what. Greenwald has tweeted that there are legal reasons to not show full views nor "distribute" document instead only "report" on them. No answer to a tweet to GG about who set those legal boundaries. This seems to be game the Snowden manipulators are playing with authorities, or at least lawyers are playing with the gov, to toy with and tease the public by hoarding documents, maintaining insider privileges of "journalists" against outsiders, their readers, and experts who could deconstruct the journo's pallid intepretation. This is a game played also by secret-hoarding governments against their citizens, aided and abetted by duplicitous laws and lawyers. MITM exploitation is what it is whatever they chose to call their privilege protection racket. And not to overlook the singular role of Tor in MITM exploitation. The same distinctive rhetoic is deployed by all of them to wave off suspicions as as if tradecraft.

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Musings...
by Juan Garofalo 14 Sep '13

14 Sep '13

So, the washington-london-jerusalem axis of infinite goodness and boundless moral perfection uses the internet to keep close tabs on their subjects. Western cattle is free to use google, facebook, wikipedia and similar technological wonders so that the all-loving state can freely spy on them. Now, what happens when a country is ruled by an evil power that prevents people from connecting to the 'free' internet? Seems to me that the morally perfect western governemnts are denied the opportunity of spying on people living in those countries. Say, I don't know, China. What is the axis of goodness to do now, I wonder...? What about helping all those oppressed people, especially the ones unhappy about their government and so likely to be useful in further spreading western imperialism? What kind of tools could the US military develop to be able to influence those foreign yellow assets and to collect internet usage information from yellow cattle? J.

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[2] error correction
by brian carroll 14 Sep '13

14 Sep '13

quote: Subvert logical reasoning, disallow it, including freedom of speech and thinking and censoring and controlling what facts are allowed - controlling POV - then the opposite occurs: B ---> A, such that pT => T --- Subvert logical reasoning, disallow it, including freedom of speech and thinking, censoring and controlling what facts are allowed - controlling POV - then the opposite occurs: the viewpoint of B 'overtakes' A such that an error-reliant pseudo-truth (0) = truth (1) This is critical to establishing the false perspective, basically a hack by removing logic from reasoning via faith-based binary ideology as a means to control 'programming' populations, institutions, the state and world itself via what amounts to submission and servitude to lies and the grand deception. Note: this relies on B=A which leads to B>A and pT=T, which leads to pT(0) > T(1)

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[2] sampling
by brian carroll 14 Sep '13

14 Sep '13

// attempt to block-out the text, clarify a few points, provide examples, more ideas... --- re: transparent ziplock example --- In the previous post addendum [1] the following link was provided for artwork that demonstrates a most immediate aspect for how "cryptography" can function within everyday language situations in a realm of mutable signs and symbolism. transparent ziplock with acid written on it, yellow letters inside, by Ray Geary (?) http://vapidforever.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Acid-241x300.jpg Here is a quick viewpoint for how it might or could be read, whether or not the intended meaning; (basically it potentially involves superposition as the letters could be in different positions of rearrangement (ACID) given their movement in the bag, so chaos or arbitrariness are inherent)... the off-kilter AC could reference 'alternating current', referencing a back and forth movement in relation to power, [if not also air conditioner], the letters I and D could ping the idea of 'the id' which is a dark realm of the psyche where subterfuge may exist and their backwards reading, Defense Intelligence. Likewise the letters C and I could relate to counterintelligence (CI) and intelligence community (IC). The 'C' and 'I' could be put back together into a second capital letter D which would change the four letters to three, leaving ADD as another potential. This in a context of acid as mentioned in the previous post about ushering in armageddon, forcing splits, etc, as the context for 'variables' and their meaning, grounded or not. If you think about it though, the assumption of a secure "brown paper bag" instead being an insecure "transparent ziplock bag" - including with its contents on the outside as a 'signage' - it has interesting corollary to issues of both a false encryption regime, which essentially ramps up the paranoia level, though also the jumbled letters may also signify more could be occurring than simply a repetition or A:A relation between what the signage says (ACID) and the contents (A,C,I,D) in their structurally detached 'linear' state. For instance, a search of the Internet Anagram Server for the word ACID only provides two possibilities for rearranging the original meaning using these same letters, the original word itself (ACID) and (CAD I). And yet just looking at acronyms or other 'known' cultural examples - shared libraries of knowledge or understanding as it were - then opens up other levels of interpretative possibility. In this way, concepts such as counterintelligence, defense intelligence, intelligence community, alternating (power) current, the id, who knows- AI and DC even further, then potentially "decrypt" actual meaning or relevance to what it may mean if the supposed security of encryption is knowingly subverted and yet the lies are being sold as a mainstream perspective- and what that may result in, in terms of a transparency within "security products" and industry. It probably is a lot more involved than this, such that there could be levels or layers to encryption that exist beyond 'the letters' in the transparent envelope, which is assumed what is actually happening in a double-model where security does exist, yet is invisible and extends beyond the signs as delivered, carrying placards "this is a secret". So perhaps counterintelligence is built-into encryption, as a trapdoor and some other encryption approach functions as a failsafe within that, yet unidentified or unmediated using the same approaches, algorithms or conceptual communication channels. Which was the point about language, though likewise could extend into different mathematics that take 'the message' received upon decrypt or before decrypting, and decrypt otherwise. In other words, the artwork provides example that the external 'sign' read by surveillers and the transparent package contents could be assumed A=A, whereby ACID=ACID and it is of finite meaning as a decrypted message, whereas if the label (ACID) and the contents could be interpreted beyond this via A=B analysis, the message may not be decrypted if the assumption remains the inside meaning is bounded only at ACID, and not involving AC, CI, IC, DI, ID, DC, ADD, etc. Another aspect would be if noise was added such that a number 1 replaced the capital i, as the label and contents, and then "keyword" software may never consider ACID as the word or other connections, due to a category error, such that the set {ACD,1} may not be interpreted that way machinically, if not programmed for this basic substitution, and thus AC, DC may result though nothing like CI, IC, DI, ID, which would bound potential meaning as a result. Whereas these substitutions could be obvious for a person who is on the lookout or reads this way, such that texts can function like puzzles and if in a context of secret communications, can be solved or resolved via such methods. It seems then an issue of *how do you know* what is a correct interpretation? And that is again like cloud-code, scrying, crystal ball skills involving the revealing of patterns as they align with other structures, and find grounding. The decrypt, whether from another person or 'psychic intelligence' tapped out of noosphere, relies upon the observer and their state of being, sane to insane, and how well they are grounded in truth, or reliant upon falsity, and how this interpretation either is stable and reliable or destabilizes and leads to paranoia and self-destruction by not having the skills to mediate ideas from within noisefields, like a Random Event Generator or scrying device. A high-risk thus could be involved and without a solid foundation in truth it could lead to significant problems in thinking, with high likelihood of losing mental grasp with day to day existence, and thus promoting a schizoid condition via unanswered or assumed perspectives, the hall of mirrors of wrong assumptions, and all the private chaos that could generate and also be noticeable to others, as a person goes off the deep end into la la land or no man's land, a point of no return, which can lead to extreme behavior, justifications, etc. Thus the issue of limits of interpretation and personal limits of awareness, could cause one person to immediate violent action due to unresolved, unlivable mental conditions whereas another may be able to think or understand beyond that boundary and continue functioning. So the psychic snap effect is likely related to a threshold of awareness and understanding, the ability to find and attain grounding in a world of subversion and locate a path to continued existence. This would be especially interesting if those who realize they are trapped then are provided an opening, turned, via these same means, because there is really no way out of it once captured within the labyrinth. It is final. Another cultural reference, somewhat analogous is Johnny Carson's repeated skits of Carnac the Magnificent, where he takes a sealed envelope and holds it up to his head while wearing huge turban (perhaps secret tech inside) and derives an answer for a question via psychic investigation of the contents, which then is tested against the actual question in the envelope, opened and recited, completing the joke. Johnny Carson as "Carnac" from 1974 http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x802iz_johnny-carson-as-carnac-from-1974_f… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnac_the_Magnificent This appears in some way equivalent to a false encryption scheme (via psychic key escrow perhaps) that allows encrypted communications to be accessed and read remotely yet appear secure and untouched. Perhaps this root access or god-like access would be assumed in any scenario of civilization in a context of power struggles, how could it feasibly not be, and yet perhaps a further consideration would be *malice* and misuse of this potential, versus a beneficence, watchful eye, protecting aspect. That could equate to *trust government* at some point, yet what if the government interfaced is venal, corrupt, contemptuous of human values and no longer serving the citizenry.. or more specifically- only their private citizenry. In such a case, the false encryption could bound or trap their activities within it, while allowing them to monitor enemies using the same technology, and so the ultimate setup scenario could exist via and within the corruption. The nightmare of state, by comparison to comedy skit, would be if a person could query the ur database of secrets at any time, get an answer, and use it against you for their personal and shared group advantage, for an antihuman agenda. There are indications this is actually what is going on, including with blacklists, and it is wide in the open, businesses and organizations micropoliticized, 'standing armies' even within workforces, conflicts mediated by control over accounting spreadsheets and expenditures, who gets access or moves ahead and who is sidelined, versus overt violence. Soft war, balkanization, though also Vietnam War fracturing, taking of sides, forcing splits and oppositional dynamics within daily environments and interactions. And then these kinds of activities, supported by supposedly 'secure' encryption involved as infrastructure and the "complexity" of that, all computers, their obfuscatory aspects that can be both a hinder and a help if the subversion or false floors are built-into the code regime, and when triggered for collapse, impaling ideological adherents in response. Related to this would be psychic activity as a basis for shared relations, as it relates to shared knowledge or secret communications, versus those who are not like this. Perhaps the toxic pollutive wi-fi blanketing environments is a countermeasure, to short-circuit the atmosphere, fill it with thick signals of electromagnetic fog to disorient the tuning of interconnection even. Such that not only is it promoting long term EMF side-effects of cancer, the wireless radio and computer and cellphone signals are jamming and blocking the mind from functioning, both inside and between individuals and the larger group, in additional to animal life, including colony collapse of bees, etc. What is not active covert warfare about these crimes against nature and humanity? Instead, "bureaucratic language" can choose to only validate and interpret one side of the issue (binary bias) that sides with the same technocratic agenda as delivered by scientists and technologists, made standard, made a basis for profit and 'the economy' that is functioning against humans and the earth itself. And because both the role of electromagnetism in this situation is actively censored out of existence and because "logic" itself has been removed from education entirely, such that relativistic pseudo-truth based on authoritative control has essentially become the means for dictatorial power, that *no feedback is possible* to correct these mechanisms because they are actually part of the masterplan, decades if not centuries old and underway, to defeat humanity. So what if observers are not even allowed to think, allowed to freely observe, and a natural state of being even becomes criminalized (in some way perhaps related to anarchists and libertarian issues or policy views here). What if that state or corporate agenda actually diminishes a society's health and vast many peoples ability to think or relate in a *sane context* versus an insane, unstable, toxic, sick, unhealthy, oppressive environment. Think kindergarteners who go to then go to the same gradeschool and junior high for 8 more years, sitting in classrooms for hours a day, in direct proximity to a massive active cellphone tower that is without question bathing them in sickness inducing toxic radiation* via long-term exposure- and that likewise, people in apartments are likewise criminally exposed to such hazards, by design. What allows *words* to have so little shared meaning that the truth involved can be removed from the signs, via legal -protection clauses- (security), and cannot be related back to truth, to defeat the scam? People are literally dying and being made deathly ill, for profit, by the obfuscatory approach-- like that transparent ziplock, the evil planning agenda, and yet nothing is or can be done to stop it apparently because LOGIC is absent from reasoning, people are illiterate and unable to communicate about what is actually going on as the situation has been made ever-more 'variable' via relativism, you can choose what to believe and have a friction-free lifestyle versus consider other humans, the results of decisions. And thus Babel fully realized, complete incoherence of worldview and local observation, everything is skew, warping and distortion- all of it as simple as the Binary Code Regime allows. It does not exist, just keep believing in the false perspective, stay within the herd that is benefiting and surviving- you can be one of them if only you let go of your delusions. (*not to mention interaction between EMFs and cellular signals and industrial chemicals in the body, breakdown of cells, and relation with psychiatric and other pills which can trigger other effects; obesity, diabetes, cancers, skin problems, and other issues potentially connected to electromagnetically saturated and compromised environs.) It reeks of Fahrenheit 451 dynamics, say the wrong thing, think the wrong thought, share or relate in the wrong dynamics and an alarm goes off somewhere to justify a potential security response that likely involves breaking into your computer, remotely monitoring everything you do, going through all health, education, banking records in a context of "terrorism" or potential enemy of the state, future citizen criminal evaluation, that can also be used as a map for take-down and behavioral and social engineering, suddenly you lose your mate, lose your job, cannot get rehired, etc. Blacklisting would be expected if there is unchecked power, carte blanche to take down enemies of a hidden dictatorial agenda. That is, a private takeover advantaged by a onesided viewpoint that is governing the security state via its corrupt ideology. A public takedown of humans, so there is no longer any illusion of having control, it is a charade and masquarade and at some point the liars will need to be counted in the same way they are counting everyone else. A double encryption scheme could account for this, say a next level standard that is 'not exploited' yet similarly backdoored and trapdoored. Further, basic dwelling as embassy. Whether in-built systems or dual-use off the shelf consumer electronics made to TSCM tap, say wireless speaker systems-- what surveiller could ask for more, unless of course including trance-inducing or hypnotizing technology as part of the arrangement. There are probably 50 ways within every domicile if not more to fully keep track of people, from relaying of printer and scanner data to viewing through TVs or listening through radios, to siphoning data through mice, keyboards, USB drives especially, routers, as if there is no limit even, and this likely possible remotely without resources on-site or locally. Plus the technology itself is toxic and in its design specifications, EMF-wise, the emissions can cause illness and disease, yet they are not identified as such- so completely onesided the 'reality' involved. And who benefits? Those making and making a living off of this death-machine and those who serve its agenda without considering the sell out and consequences. It seems for some it is a known pogrom with genocidal intent, which they live to support, through normalized doublespeak and cloaked similarity while polarized, pressing onward. Reason does not work when people do not observe truth, the antireason crowd has the debate, they own this crooked language, law, state, its policies of mediocrity. And it is as if no one is the wiser because of the silence, and thus the *alarm* when someone actually says something 1:1 about this situation-- SECURITY ALERT! SECURITY ALERT! -- as if even constitutional rights are a threat to the state now, because it ruins the party going on for the group benefiting from and building out the false perspective. Hollywood must be involved, it is just too perfect, too fictional, too much like a stage set, yet for the ignorant they may not realize the difference, as it confirms 'true beliefs'. Thus likely it is part of a long-ago strategy, this then the big reveal, curtains opened on the security theater, its players on stage, before the proscenium, taking on their critical roles in the performance- voicing their rehearsed lines, going through the scripted motions as required of the social engineering, whether at grocery store or in government positions, making decisions one by one that influence things for their betterment, undermining culture and civilization in the process, all the while smiling or smug, a self righteousness afforded most to the ideological carried as a scent, fingerprint on the bounded limited psyche, these, the self-same lot those grabbing cellphones and pointing directly at others- diagnostic scans of the borg, counting, monitoring, 'watching' as all-seeing private eyes, tallying elsewhere their observation into warped skew of shared view, corrupt yet to them - divine, highest, a view of privilege and entitlement, everyone else stealing from them, selfish, undeserving, while they dismantle civilization itself, their end game is ending humanity, a rationalists conceit, believing themselves smartest on the block- oh how that had to be fun to set this whole cosmic takedown up... The pain of living through it, centuries upon centuries, something different, though ultimately it will be worthwhile to rid the world of the plague of such a deceit-filled organization. (It is like the model where the Devil is the greatest servant of God, leading the unbelievers to their demise, the ultimate double cross and sacrifice unimaginable to most all yet ultimately of shared love and commitment to truth. Versus, say, the 'real devil' who sees themselves as the real leader of unbelievers, himself the false God, their king, etc. It fits the terrorism/security model quite well, actually. "Bomb plans on the internet- here's the link... hell, here are 5,012,202 links to sundry and unsound activities... go for it!") --- literacy in relation to truth --- It is proposed that there is mass illiteracy in the culture, as part of this overall design for its takeover, that has subverting the reasoning process to that of behavioral science and its methods as a form of social control via pavlovian conditioning. Bad thought! leading to "no think" via pills, therapies, conditioning. Contra, bad thoughts everywhere via advertisement, forgetting values and exploiting urges and instincts, making populations animalistic in relations and self-evaluation. So a question such as how an individual relates to a situation may be assumed they have a foundational understanding and awareness that was once cultivated in the education system though has further and further become detached from the lived reality (especially its technological escape velocity from any known documentation explaining what exactly _is going on, in the terms it actually exists). And thus expecting that people are operating at truth (1) and accurate observation for relations could be largely mistaken for most of the population, and thus 'groups' and individuals could be building their consensus around more what amounts to shared lies or shared warped views that include and rely upon errors to support their limited thinking and frameworks, which could be spoon fed to them via news and talkshows and popular communications. In this way, relation could occur in a vast context of falsity (0) to start with, and some very minor truth may occur what is effectively a false world view that only locally finds grounding in some accurate, temporal way. For instance, "I am married" instead of "My spouse is a robot" or imposter in the nightmare scenario, whereas for others this may be for them utopia. And movies and books have made critical contributions to recontextualizing the present, such as the Matrix and Truman Show as related to living within a simulation, or cyberpunk literature or other bridge-building between views, as these go back into old and ancient ideas, and issues of whether they are surface interpretations or find grounding in relation to the foundation of knowledge, via logical reasoning, and referencing and accounting for shared beliefs in terms of ones and zeros, hypotheses necessarily removed of errors. Yet holier than thou dogmas occur and lifestyles emerge, the cult of culture, where entire scenes are based on the shallow superficial *image* and the actuality can become yet another alphabet for letters, words, and sentences, more diary-based activities, more like a theme park of state, carnival rides than deep investigations- as if getting tattoos is the signifier for a meaningful life, versus doing things that correspond to those tattoos beyond mere consumption and trend following. Thus the image of the thing, and the thing itself, and issues of copies, copies of copies, and dilution of truth into something ultimately opposite, ideological, dissimilar. What once may have had truth or "literacy" as it were, instead becomes in some sense "illiterate" and removed of its original truth and conditions for existence, if not devolved.\ Personal Computers and networking for public citizens from homebrew to Dumb Terminals in service to the Corporate Terror State and the global junk drawer, hand over your passport, drivers license, health and banking records, all private documents, secrets, and we will let you continue to login in and use the network for hedonistic pleasures. Thus questions related to a security model based on shared/unshared communications, and various combinations... a. illiterate <-----> illiterate b. literate <-----> illiterate c. literate <-----> literate In 'shared illiteracy' there could be a shared false POV that functions as truth (T) yet is only pseudo (pT) that tends towards falsity (0). This could be exploited in crypto whereby the sign=sign yet it is a deception, thus the decrypt is what is expected though a false perspective, thus relaying and serving up B=B though believed to be A. In the asymmetrical, doubling aspects of true and false could co-exist, various siphoning, whereby literate could coexist within A & B views, rely on A while sharing a false view of B as the relation with the illiterate via bounded, threshold interaction, so from the illiterate side B=B would be the only reality shared in the exchange. In this way distortion, warp, skew function as camouflage by reinforcing ideological bias, perhaps itself a form of conditioning via confirming bias, no questions, no new answers. Also, feedback from B could occur, thus pulling information out of exchange, like animal training perhaps, this probably normal for most exchanges in terms of manipulations within some dimensions, whether business or personal. And then assumption of A=A relations in relations and communication exchange within shared grounded truth (1) that may have some errors (A=B) yet be identifiable, recognized, within the involved dimensions. This is to clarify, in contrast to the first example of shared illiteracy that while shared literacy 'shares truth' it still would be of the domain of pseudo-truth (pT), the difference being that it tends towards 1 (absolute truth) and not 0 (falsity), unlike shared views of illiteracy that are ungrounded and continue to detach from whatever may correct the viewpoint, increase the understanding, etc, because it may not be ideologically necessary, even. Then to consider "encryption" and crypto in a such a context of actual intelligence and ignorance of varying degrees and dimensions, that again may shift given context. A very smart person could be highly literate in binary code and programming (c) yet in terms of intelligence in a larger realm be incompetent (a) and both of these occupy an issue such as secret communication and secure exchange, such that they may "believe" crypto is secure on ideological grounds due to belief in technology yet without considering the ideas and thinking beyond that context, due to illiteracy of ideas, thinking, conceptualization, that could then be exploited in an unshared situation (b) whereby the asymmetrical pseudo-truth shared exchange can be exploited... pT(1) <-----> pT(0) whereby: pT(A/B) <-----> pT (B) In essence leading to a falsed shared state of the second observer in shared falsity (B), tending to zero, and allowing the first observer to double in a contained accurate view (A) while feeding and interacting in a false view of B. The pseudo-truth of the first tending toward truth, and the second toward falsity, yet perceived as if a shared state by the latter in an asymmetrical relation due to 'not knowing' what they do not know or remain unaware of, via bias, threshold, limitations. And thus errors, skew, warping, distortion relied upon as structures can be security exploits. 1<=A|B=>0 <===crypto===> B=>0 Note: a shared viewpoint of pseudo-truth thus could be shared by observers one and two, where for the latter it appears both share the same reality (0) even though it tends towards falsity, where from their perspective it defaults to absolute truth, if uncritical ideology is confirmed, though for the former this could be known, a deception, and thus knowingly misinforming while functioning in a realm of truth (1) beyond this interaction. In this way, the first observer could even send a message to the second which is decrypted, verified as 'secret' and send this further down the line, which could still be encoded or encrypted, should it encounter another who is of the shared 'shared awareness' or literacy, whether human or machine, and therefore if the view was hidden it could bypass or go beyond the observer (say surveiller) via the bounded interpretation or knowledge, and yet still be deciphered by some other observer down the line. Perhaps this most possibly in a context of ignorance or more advanced approaches, beyond the capacity of the second observer to gain any clues about via observation. It would thus seem that 'zoning' and 'tiered access' whether hidden or unhidden could relate to this issue of "perspective", a holographic quality even given access, angle, or dimensional perch. Maybe this is sliding scale and is about more/less knowledge, thus literacy and more literacy, that paradoxical back and forth, so that in certain views if deception it would actually be true that B is the higher state, say the Binary Crypto Regime, where those adhering to standard A are viewed illiterate by their dissimilarity or incapacity even, and thus strong crypto (knowingly false) is knowingly presented and sold this way (B=A) as a deception, yet via an ideology founded on pseudo-truth, lies, such that their ungrounded A=A equations and assessments tend toward zero by default, when outside their limits of control, and ability to govern over its action and interpretation. Thus the importance of maintaining and exploiting illusions. --- more on pseudo-truth -- Without spelling it out entirely, beyond 1<A|B>0 as an approximation, it is to suggest that in ordinary, normal reasoning processing reliant upon truth and logical evaluation via empirical structures, shared grounding in some sense of observation removed of errors as the standard, that the ability to ignore this leads to illiteracy and ungrounded belief, *faith* in what can amount to falsehood or inaccurate views due to lack of rigor, accountability, and built-in ignorance in terms of not knowing as a part of being, and the role of learning in moving from less truth to more truth over time, via cybernetic feedback and improved decision-making and observational capacity slash awareness. If education is short-circuited, this improvement process via critical evaluation may be broken within individuals and then their group relations in society, also with family deterioration. If debate is short-circuited due to ungrounded relativism and their being 'no need to see things similarly', as is the subjective default, then faith can take over and people can choose what to believe based on its profit to their immediate sensibility. Thus a potential for relation could exist in that each person has a capacity for some ignorance and some intelligence, or relies on some falsity and some truth within their observational frameworks... A|B <=====> A|B In this model A is assumed to be pseudo-truth tending towards truth (1) and B is towards falsity (B). A <=====> A In a grounded ~empirical resolution of shared observation, contingent truth via tested hypotheses would enable 'shared truth' to exist in A=A relations between two observers, and this could be the result of logical evaluation and debate. The plague that is relativistic ideology breaks this process, and allows ungrounded observation to exist as if A, without removal of errors, and thus 'unshared A' which may only be hypothetical and untested and uncorrected outside its controlled private boundaries, based upon "theoretical" beliefs, heavily invested in a binary worldview as its intellectual justification, cherry-picking data that confirms the viewpoint and ignoring the role of falsification and error-correction as part of the process of grounding ideas... A (1) <===/ /===> A (0) Everything is equal, unless the false-viewpoint is in control, say of education, then 'truth' (1) can be censored out and presented as 'illegal thinking', while the false view actually is reliant upon and moving towards falsity (pt=>0) and is actually an A=B situation, though disallows debate that has facts and argument indicating B=B is the actual substance of the corrupted observation. And thereby discourse must stop, and the default machine progression of institutional ideas thus favors this closed-ideological approach or 'theoretical observation' that is inherently ungrounded, untested, and essentially reliant upon and promoting a fiction for the shared reality to which others must conform to proceed within institutions of learning and education, which function against ideas, against learning, and against society in their day to day agendas, except insofar as it benefits those who serve the goals of this subversive agenda, who then likely are doubles and very smart yet duplicitous or extremely ignorant and selfish. A -----> A|B The function of debate in terms of feedback has been to provide empirical and observational oversight to ideas, such that panoptic qualities of additional views of a situation can often held refine the limited perspective, and therefore any observation of error (A=B) could be recognized and corrected. A <-----> A In this way, empirical resolution and refinement can 'improve' ideas via shared observation and this can be a back and forth encounter between one observer and another or one observer and many, or many with many- the belief in bugs and eyeballs, which seems opposite of where the code is at these days in terms of sensible understanding. That is the bugs are normalized, errors prolific and rife and relied upon, the beast of antisecurity making its fortune on the pT=T exploit now a structure of the technology, this protected even by subverted law, ah how language has become detached from its reliance and verification in truth by the relativistic mindset and its beliefs. unbelievable, the extent of the corruption, making its way into nervous systems and reprogramming people to believe and serve lies via brain washing and other methods of indoctrination. A|B <====> A|B The potential for debate then is that each side has some truth and falsity, and if ungrounded these 'shared observations' in pseudo-truth via relativistic frameworks can lead to 'shared falsity' that tends towards zero, in terms of the sliding scale, where "ideas" communicated are reliant upon scaffoldings of wrong assumptions, errors, flawed thinking and beliefs, skew and bias, such that whatever contingent truth may exist and be shared, it would be reliant on massive falsity to communicate and share and thus exist only as a minor aspect, homeopathic amounts, a tincture within a much larger frame of flawed observation, and this normalized as the basis for exchange. B <=====> B In this way 'shared truth' could instead, if ungrounded and reliant on the errors for its structure and sustenance, be *believed* true (1) yet actually be so minor and reliant on false belief and wrong assumptions that the pseudo-truth tends towards falsity overall, if taking into account the context needed to sustain the truth, its container of other ideas and thinking, most likely flawed ~ideology that no longer asks question and relies on previous answers or a particular observation becomes solidified as 'the POV', thus limiting the questions to a finite, skewed model that requires its errors to be continued as a viewpoint, keeping opposite views outside, allowing false utopia to exist inside. Whereas if partial truth is accessed in an accurate framework, this same contingent aspect of discerning what is real and actual and existent via observation can be removed of errors via debate, and what is true can be separated from what is false. A <====> A Thus observers could validate the same truth (A=A) while simultaneously recognizing the errors in this condition (B=B) and thus instead of relying on the errors, discard them or learn from them, yielding what is accurate from the forces of skew, warping, and distortion as force fields aligning with disconnected truth yet not relying on these as if they are themselves unfettered truth, which relativists allow and require and celebrate-- THE BULLSHIT basically. In the above example, as a situation moves from A|B --> A, via logical reasoning of grounded empirical observation, pT=>T, and falsity is removed from the process of shared communication as a structural framework. Subvert logical reasoning, disallow it, including freedom of speech and thinking and censoring and controlling what facts are allowed - controlling POV - then the opposite occurs: B ---> A, such that pT => T This is the crypto exploit of the Binary Code Regime, where B=A(0) and pT(0)=>T(1) And it is the same ideological 'code' used as an authoritarian means of control over debate, to stop error-correction and install a false POV as the shared false 'empiricism' whereby truth is ignored, logical reasoning disallowed, facts censored, views onesided, and right answers based on 'authority' - power over ideas, versus ideas themselves. In this way, ~Enronomics goes beyond accounting for Sokal Hoax of financialization and into classrooms and minds everywhere, engineering 'shared pseudo-truth' => 0. It must be said also that 'bullying' and the ego of the oppressor oftentimes is part of this relation, pT>T, and likewise B>A, and goes hand in hand with the bullshit regime, and in this way intimidation or the need of the powerful to let the oppressed know they are superior is a security lapse, revealing what hides behind the facade of security theater. Thus false POVs, vanity, egotism, sadism, and flawed assumptions of observers should not be discounted as security threats, weaknesses or strengths for hack/crack attacks. And this is certainly accounted for already, though it seemingly is not being accounted for in ideas themselves, their truth (1) in a shared empirical framework. Thus what if crypto is protecting or reliant upon bad ideas and yet this is not being accounted for due to social issues or non-mathematical variables of a civilization in ruin?

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"FBI Admits It Controlled Tor Servers Behind Mass Malware Attack"
by Gregory Foster 13 Sep '13

13 Sep '13

Wired (Sep 13) - "FBI Admits It Controlled Tor Servers Behind Mass Malware Attack" by @kpoulsen: http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/09/freedom-hosting-fbi/ gf -- Gregory Foster || gfoster(a)entersection.org @gregoryfoster <> http://entersection.com/

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FLYINGPIG // Tor
by Rich Jones 13 Sep '13

13 Sep '13

Screenshots from FLYINGPIG interface show a tab for "Tor events QFD" http://www.scribd.com/doc/166821334/FlyingPig Any more details out there? Bruce: https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/09/new_nsa_leak_sh.html R

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Re: [Cryptography] Matthew Green on BULLRUN: briefly censored
by Eugen Leitl 13 Sep '13

13 Sep '13

----- Forwarded message from John Gilmore <gnu(a)toad.com> ----- Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 21:23:29 -0700 From: John Gilmore <gnu(a)toad.com> To: cryptography(a)metzdowd.com Subject: Re: [Cryptography] Matthew Green on BULLRUN: briefly censored > http://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2013/09/on-nsa.html Johns Hopkins University censored this exact blog post by Prof. Green, because of a complaint from its local defense contractor affiliated with NSA, the Applied Physics Laboratory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applied_Physics_Laboratory) The university gets slight credit for backtracking one day after the censorship story hit Twitter and the press. So the blog post is now back (and is still worth reading). Here's the story: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/10/nsa-matthew-green-take… http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130909/11193024453/johns-hopkins-tells-s… http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/09/crypto-prof-asked-to-remove-nsa-rel… http://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2013/09/a-note-on-nsa-future-and-fi… Now, why is it that so many folks with links to NSA think like totalitarians? It's wonderful seeing them crawl out of the woodwork and try to give orders to the public about what it is allowed to think, what it is allowed to read, and what it is allowed to write. It's only wonderful because the huge public counter-reaction protects us -- the totalitarians reveal their true colors, but they don't actually get to tell us what to do. Thank you, fellow denizens of the world, for creating your own freedom, by making a lot of noise when some NSA-affiliated idiot tries to take it away. John PS: How much NSA tax money does JHU's Applied Physics Lab get? I don't know, but here's a guy on LinkedIn who worked at NSA in the past, works at the Lab today, and brags that he's managing a $120M contract from NSA: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/john-trent/18/a95/b04 _______________________________________________ The cryptography mailing list cryptography(a)metzdowd.com http://www.metzdowd.com/mailman/listinfo/cryptography ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://ativel.com http://postbiota.org AC894EC5: 38A5 5F46 A4FF 59B8 336B 47EE F46E 3489 AC89 4EC5

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Re: [Freedombox-discuss] CAs and cipher suites for cautious servers like FreedomBox
by Eugen Leitl 13 Sep '13

13 Sep '13

----- Forwarded message from Keith <keith(a)fernie.eu> ----- Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 13:41:22 +0100 From: Keith <keith(a)fernie.eu> To: Eugen Leitl <eugen(a)leitl.org> Cc: freedombox-discuss(a)lists.alioth.debian.org Subject: Re: [Freedombox-discuss] CAs and cipher suites for cautious servers like FreedomBox X-Mailer: Evolution 3.4.4-3 PFS with snakeoil works. Trying it out here https://snakeoil.cf Using Apache 2.4 on a server running Jessie, it looks reasonable using just the default ciphers of SSLCipherSuite HIGH:MEDIUM:!aNULL:!MD5. Open to tweaking SSLCipherSuite. Now trying pfs for Postfix, will this email actually use it? On Fri, 2013-09-13 at 08:01 +0200, Eugen Leitl wrote: > On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 04:44:31PM +0100, Keith wrote: > > With a CA on each freedombox there need not be a requirement for a > > server. > > > > If my understanding of Tor is right, it is designed for anonymity, not > > encryption, should not need a CA for this. > > Can you get PFS with snakeoil (I presume these are generated during > the installation, is there at all enough entropy at that time so > this is safe?) certs? > > Postfix and dovecot in newer versions can do PFS: > http://www.heinlein-support.de/blog/security/perfect-forward-secrecy-pfs-fu… > _______________________________________________ > Freedombox-discuss mailing list > Freedombox-discuss(a)lists.alioth.debian.org > http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freedombox-discuss ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://ativel.com http://postbiota.org AC894EC5: 38A5 5F46 A4FF 59B8 336B 47EE F46E 3489 AC89 4EC5

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