November 2013 - cypherpunks - lists.cpunks.org

US Senate Virtual Currency Hearing Summary
by grarpamp 20 Nov '13

20 Nov '13

Curiously, US law enforcement feels it already has the general laws it needs. Yet it needs the talent base to use them, aka: SS is hiring. The US is behind in its guidance to business... US companies large and small very much want to play and lead just as soon as a compliance/certification framework appears in which they can safely build a business. Unofficial regulatory 'guidelines' and failure to issue business accounts/licenses due to that are not helping. Predicted that virtual currencies will be regulated, tax reported, etc at the exchange level as usual. US financial/consumer markets will evolve normally as with any fiat currency. Was felt US needed to be on par with and peer internationally for global regulation. The Four Horsemen of the Infocalypse, Tor, etc were all in effect, yet business and finance seemed to be the leaning and balancing interest of the hearing. A couple statements regarding "anonymity can be catastrophic", anonymity regulation, etc were made that were left open without further comment. Al Gore created Bitcoin. Bitcoin markets continued their rise after the hearing. Add/Correct/Discuss.

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control (urls)
by brian carroll 20 Nov '13

20 Nov '13

An unconventional car: No engine, no transmission, no differential http://phys.org/news/2013-11-unconventional-car-transmission-differential.h… "Without {onboard computer motion control}, the car is quite difficult to drive because the wheels are not coordinated," says the National Science Foundation (NSF)-funded researcher, who also directs the university's vehicle systems and control laboratory. "You feel like you are driving something uncontrollable. You could flip over, or travel along an undesired path, or cause a crash. But when the 'controller' is active, based on feedback loops, the vehicle motion can be controlled, just as the driver expects." Powerline: The First Battle of America's Energy War by Paul Wellstone // murdered in plane crash http://www.powells.com/biblio/9780816643844 "The inspiring story of a grassroots rebellion. Powerline describes the opposition of rural Minnesotans to the building of a high voltage powerline across 430 miles of farmland from central North Dakota to the Twin Cities suburbs. Convinced that the safety of their families and the health of their land was disregarded in favor of the gluttonous energy consumption of cities, the farmer-led prairie revolt began as questioning and escalated to rampant civil disobedience, peaking in 1978 when nearly half of Minnesota's state highway patrol was engaged in stopping sabotage of the project. After construction was completed, the powerline proved difficult to defend and unprecedented guerrilla warfare brought many towers to the ground (due to "bolt weevils"). Through pulse-quickening personal interviews and big-picture analysis, Powerline lays bare the latent and unexpected power of the people of rural America--and resonates strongly with today's energy debates." {educational fair-use of copyright, 2013} ༜ Я ץ

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dual-use (urls)
by brian carroll 20 Nov '13

20 Nov '13

(note: several of videos from preceding urls-list were deleted, thus links broken, due to reaching max upload limit at dropbox) Vancouver’s ban on the humble doorknob likely to be a trendsetter (via digg) http://www.vancouversun.com/story.html?id=9173543 [quote] Vancouver is the only city in Canada with its own building code, so the changes made here are often chased into the B.C. Building Code and Canada’s National Building Code, and then put into practice in cities and towns across Canada. Vancouver’s influence is wide. And as go the codes, so too goes the construction industry. [unquote] // dual-use therapy equipment, can also be used to torture people... // brute force behavioral engineering, physio & neuro programming, // note: resonance-based "treatments" occur at a distance, vibrations Shocking Medical Devices From Another Century (via digg) http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2013/11/bakken-museum/?viewall=true [&] The Bakken Museum of Electricity in Life http://www.thebakken.org/ US NAVY: Hackers 'Jumping The Air Gap' Would 'Disrupt The World Balance Of Power' http://www.businessinsider.com/navy-acoustic-hackers-could-halt-fleets-2013… ""The ships are floating SCADA systems," Hagerott said, making reference to the same highly vulnerable Supervisory Control And Data Acquisition networks that run utilities in America..." (via drudgereport) // ultrasonic neuromodulation and electromagnetic incarceration... // descriptions of effects are accurate in my experience. this is it, // except it can also be local, on-site, directed energy equipment // & structurally involves political psychiatry/psychology practices. U.S. SILENTLY TORTURES AMERICANS WITH CELL TOWER ELECTROMAGNETIC NEUROWEAPON (link from comments in url above) http://viclivingston.blogspot.com/2011/12/u.html [quote] Each day, a nationwide scalar electromagnetic radiation "multifunctional" radio frequency directed energy weapon attack system employing phased array cell tower antenna transmitter/receivers and GPS satellites, under the administration of U.S. Cyber Command and military contractor Lockheed Martin, is used to silently and invisibly torture, impair, subjugate, and degrade the physical and neurological health of untold thousands of American citizens who have been extrajudicially "targeted" by a hate- and ideology-driven domestic "disposition matrix" as "dissidents" or "undesirables." [unquote] . . . . : : : films & videos : : : . . . . Resonance Beings of Frequency documentary film | 2013, online 1:28min http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QV9dhGv_tTs Full Signal - 52 minute documentary - trailer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdZSczgtK9o Genre: Documentary | Run Time: 61 minutes | Release: June 2010 http://fullsignalmovie.com/ Full Signal reviews at Amazon http://www.amazon.com/Full-Signal-Hidden-Cost-Phones/product-reviews/B00427… Safe (1995 film) -- Julianne Moore http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe_%281995_film%29 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59cHP4jkr-Y {educational fair-use of copyright, 2013} ☢ ☤ ☣

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consciousness (urls)
by brian carroll 19 Nov '13

19 Nov '13

[decades ago when a gradeschooler went on a museum tour of Glensheen Mansion, located in Duluth, Minnesota. what amazed me was at that age was the level of luxury achieved by the extremely wealthy, in comparison to ordinary people. this was captured in a magnificent shower that had twenty shower heads and body jets, in 1908 (potentially involving gold). this is context for a recent 'typological' discovery when on Amazon, where these kinds of shower arrays are now being sold as normal fixtures (example url follows)... shower panel http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Home-Improvement-Shower-Panels/zgbs/hi/6… Glensheen Historic Estate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glensheen_Historic_Estate what i think is interesting about this is how over time these values or luxuries even, migrate towards the larger population, once-middleclass, and that a level of opulence exists where ordinary people live like kings and queens via these vary many details of conventional life. in that, you do not need to be a baron to have 10 showerheads if that is a significant priority yet it may be one of many and eventually establish itself as a new standard for bathroom fixtures and so it can be tied to how it is valued, its use, is it really better than a simpler solution. and under this is an unrecognized issue of infrastructure, water ecosystems, regulatory policies, water quality, and water conservation that cannot be disconnected from the artifact as idea. so too computers with powerplants and pollution and energy wars, and so on. it just surprised me to see this on Amazon after several decades, and remembering how amazing that shower was of a wealthy person from yesteryear, and now an approximation of that technology exists as another choice for shoppers, more than a century later. and how it seemed to indicate various parallels, yet how underlying factors may also not be dealt with at the same time something appears as if progress when removed, isolated from its context. in other words, perhaps it is like an electric razor that had efficiency to replace a safety razor, yet today they are sold with chemicals that need to be repurchased again and again to keep it working (auto-cleaning cartridges) and thus a secondary 'blades' requirement, more and more to keep the thing working, and it involves additional effort to _manage the device. thus, what of televisions from CRT to digital and increased bureaucracy or other technical issues related to computers, making them less efficient or effective as tools, or more involving time and energy to manage or configure settings. and thus, what if there is hard water and not only one nozzle gets blocked, but eight, and all need to be cleaned or replaced, etc. perhaps that is the essence of friction-free purchasing without connectivity to other ecosystem issues. it can be excluded from the analysis, the innovation occurring in some ways, efficiency, while in others it may be a loss of function or additional routine that is more trouble than its worth. so too, technology in general, additional settings, versus artifacts and tools that actually work as they are designed to and are exceptionally well functioning, removed of errors, etc. who knows if the 'advanced options' of the shower panel are worth the investment, though the question may be- do you need to be rich to keep up with the eventual upkeep expenses, if not troubleshooting and maintenance.] // "deep neural network" machine learning algorithm. regarding // knowing what sound source to focus in on, wonder if gyroscope // or accelerometer may help determine or preference directionality Study reveals potential breakthrough in hearing technology http://phys.org/news/2013-11-reveals-potential-breakthrough-technology.html [quote] "That means that hearing-impaired people who had the benefit of this algorithm could hear better than students with no hearing loss," Healy said. [unquote] (note: once read a remarkable statistic now forgotten regarding the projected need for hearing aids in young adults due to mp3 players and personal audio electronics, perhaps to include cellphones even, that was resulting in hearing loss issues on a massive scale. in other words, hearing aids are the future for entire generations, due to noise & listening to loud music whether on headphones or at concerts with huge loud amps, etc. guess when the musicians playing are themselves dealing with hearing loss it might be considered a side-effect of the approach to musical production even. though perhaps everything, TV, phone, traffic, (now cannot even take a walk without having someone alone who is talking out loud to themselves, only to realize they are using a cellphone involved in a remote conversation. combine this with those who view screens while walking outside, and a form of willful blindness and deafness appears to exist as people move in private bubbles of reality). [&] Loss: Is Loud Music Making Teens Deaf? http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162-20014372-10391704.html (note: this is an example of the statistics though what i remember included examination of multiple generations, all having increased and severely premature hearing loss specifically due to electronics and the noisy environment, where nerve cells for hearing are being killed off via sound-based activities; the irony that music 'listening' leads to loss of hearing, etc.) South Africa cemeteries to microchip tombstones http://phys.org/news/2013-11-south-africa-cemeteries-microchip-tombstones.h… Broken windows theory // recontextualize with OS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory ~Greenwaldian Theorem // a^2 + b^2 > c^2 (via digg) http://wikibin.org/articles/greenwaldian-theorem.html First-Ever Hyperspectral Photo of Auroras http://petapixel.com/2012/12/01/first-ever-hyperspectral-photo-of-auroras/ ' The NORUSCA II can switch between 41 different optical bands in a matter of microseconds, allowing scientists to detect things in the atmosphere based on their “light fingerprint.” ' [in-article link] Researchers Turn an Ordinary Canon 5D Into a Hyperspectral Camera http://petapixel.com/2011/12/19/researchers-turn-an-ordinary-canon-5d-into-… note: this last issue has potential relevance to solar astronomy, because solar telescopes today using h-alpha filters (such as Coronado Solarscopes) need to be tuned to one area of the sun, its surface or its edges, which results in other regions becoming less focused. my question for this has been if a holographic chamber could be made that can focus in multiple 'tuned regions' simultaneously and then merge them optically in a single image that then is the basis for capturing images of the sun and its activity. should be possible though a double focusing mechanism or another approach with mirrors is likely required to allow for it. // backgrounder; multidimensional hyperspectral 'data cubes', use in // astronomy, mining & geology, ecology, food processing, surveillance, Hyperspectral imaging http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperspectral_imaging [quote] Hyperspectral sensors look at objects using a vast portion of the electromagnetic spectrum. Certain objects leave unique 'fingerprints' across the electromagnetic spectrum. These 'fingerprints' are known as spectral signatures and enable identification of the materials that make up a scanned object. [endquote] // property, boundaries of individual custom manufacture... How A Geek Dad And His 3D Printer Aim To Liberate Legos (digg) http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2012/04/05/how-a-geek-dad-and-his… "A Lego spokesperson says the company has no problem with Levin and Sims’ work but is keeping an eye out for printed objects that infringe on its brand. Neither Hasbro nor any of the smaller companies that sell construction toys responded to requests for comment. So far the pair haven’t received a cease-and-desist letter." (also, see comment regarding printer specs, feasibility) interesting quote from article: Personal Kill (via digg) http://www.themorningnews.org/gallery/personal-kill [quote] "BG/OS: It seems that the military’s answer {to how should our military train if not for these simulations?} is to invest in technology that allows for more automated, remote-controlled units; surveillance; and weapons like robots and drones in any imaginable form in order to avoid human casualties on the side of the military and in order to control from the distance. Next to other things, this also indicates an increasing militarization of cities and public communities in general, because single individuals are the target. But drone pilots get PTSD too, and war zones or conflicts can’t be controlled by machines. Automation seems still to go only so far and the distance of the flying eye can trigger the application of violence much easier than the immediacy of human encounter." [endquote] // parameters, boundaries, identity, ecosystems, shared consciousness. // missing issues in neuro & computing: understanding of perspective A Neuroscientist’s Radical Theory of How Networks Become Conscious http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2013/11/christof-koch-panpsychism-conscio… [note: i had a computational model for achieving this through parallelism of matched patterns, local-global computing to function beyond the capacity of the human brain, all 'transistors' interconnected structurally, via looping N-value logical evaluation into shared scaffolding that exists as an ecological computation; concept of crystal ball computing.] [note also: permeability of surveillance within todays bounded, finite PCs could indicate a type of emergent consciousness that is surveillance, as collective awareness or tending toward super- or supra-organism, yet again bounded, constrained to few parameters vs. unleashing potential interconnections, allowing that to govern, thus keeping it contained and under control, to keep things in the existing paradigm, manageable by a given ideology etc] // consider the following headline.... iPad Mini displays fewer colors than does iPad Air, says report Though it boasts a Retina display, the new iPad Mini is still stuck with the same color palate found in the first edition, says Anandtech. http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57612752-94/ipad-mini-displays-fewer-color… [to me there is something 'meta' about this that translates into a larger framework. perhaps at its most abstract, how tools themselves are bounded by the ideas held inside of them, and thus more and more speed of processing may still be rely upon a particular limiting approach, even while appearing as if an upgrade or greater functionality. so what if the fundamentals are off or something is constrained. and how much of planned obsolescence in manufacturing is based on similar techniques, if locked CPUs or software or non-innovating product categories that could likely include most everything electronic, if sustaining false or warped ideology] Invisible Fields. Geographies of radio waves http://issuu.com/actar/docs/invisiblefields Astrophysicists tackle the Sun and one of physics' biggest unsolved problems http://phys.org/news/2013-11-astrophysicists-tackle-sun-physics-biggest.html "Scientists have proposed two main theories to explain why the temperature of the gas in the corona, which lies above the solar surface, soars to over 1 million degrees Kelvin even though the surface of the sun is a relatively cool 6,000 degrees. (The center of the sun is 15 million degrees.)" --- colorshift examples --- test videos to document colorshift properties using LED color light and different colored objects for a project that was canceled. these are overly long and very boring though demonstrate certain principles that could be useful. (basic research) VIDEO: juggling balls (2:27) https://www.dropbox.com/s/t8z4gnvwjfdpsx7/P4270002.AVI VIDEO: juggling rings (4:51) https://www.dropbox.com/s/pq9qaszavqdgl2c/P4270003.AVI VIDEO: juggling clubs (3:28) https://www.dropbox.com/s/1v3on6t2g4p0346/P4270006.AVI the bigger idea involved venn logic and various balloon colors as a way to visualize a model of consciousness i was exploring via 'balloon octopii' to translate ideas of pseudo-truth and of various limits (and processing of concepts as molecules) and parameters. here are some of the octopus images. i wanted to make a 'brain' of multiple colored balloons for each octopus, having different venn color compositions, and then photograph them together under the same color light, as if ~resonance of /shared patterning/ to model this relation via thinking. pT/T modeling (note: REG noisefield for emergent pattern match) A=A/B https://www.dropbox.com/s/47icp2cxeu63fyn/ballooning%20ex15.jpg octopii communicating within noisefield via shared/unshared patterns https://www.dropbox.com/s/umakwtjv0pjm4y5/ballooning%20ex14.jpg Platonic forms, ideas as molecules, tuned into as consciousness https://www.dropbox.com/s/by6ix6rvgnfllj2/ballooning%20ex23.jpg so here was the larger idea... looking at balloons (translucent, opaque, and transparent) as set combinations that have various color-based permutations based on their configuration. that this could be explored, the videos here only tests, first steps never developed further. VIDEO: venn balloons and colorshift test (3:00) https://www.dropbox.com/s/vkm8fno5oki6u8x/P5020007.AVI VIDEO: venn balloons and colorshift tests (3:43) https://www.dropbox.com/s/cfwttfhq1g9bivu/P5020010.AVI VIDEO: venn balloons and colorshift tests (4:16) https://www.dropbox.com/s/j0bsu4kisrte4e5/P5020012.AVI VIDEO: venn balloons and colorshift tests (0:42) https://www.dropbox.com/s/81qdyvffejtuht3/P5020013.AVI two things to note: as mentioned, the venn issue and set theory, and ultimately experiments for balloon-in-balloon experiments (red balloon _nested inside blue balloon, then illuminate with various color sequences) as this relates to balloon-by-balloon dynamics (overlapping of colors, even picking up of colors by transparent balloons or tinge or color-casting). -and- also, the molecular aspect as if electron-tunnel microscopy or some other device looking at atomic formations at some level of abstraction. so the balloons were also going to be explored for these molecular forms (none of that in these images, though it is a natural attribute of latex balloons (tap the maple tree -> maple syrup, tap the rubber tree --> latex for balloons). VIDEO: crude molecule test, failed to capture effect (5:21) https://www.dropbox.com/s/eu51e87ucmqfcea/P5020017.AVI VIDEO: colorshift multicolor thread patterns (4:01) https://www.dropbox.com/s/dllf4vs5w8cmkjt/P5020003.AVI : : : text transformation : : : (errata-scramble) nopqrstuvwxyz/ uodbɹsʇnʌʍxʎz/ uobdɹsʇnʌʍxʎz nodbj5fn^mxh2 W vv M ʌʌ M ʌʌ W vv \/\/ /\/\ \/ /\ \//\/ /\/\ \/\/ /\ \/ /\\/\ {educational fair-use of copyright, 2013} AU <---> FeS₂

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Re: Your errors about me in your book.
by alex wright 19 Nov '13

19 Nov '13

Previously sent right to Joshua Case because ... I'm special... I for one found it an interesting jump off point. I didn't know much about that episode before a few previous posts. If the lines are too narrow this is just a terribly formatted RSS feed. On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 3:40 PM, alex wright <wrightalexw(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I for one found it an interesting jump off point. I didn't know much > about that episode before a few previous posts. If the lines are too > narrow this is just a terribly formatted RSS feed. > > > On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 3:19 PM, Joshua Case <jwcase(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hey Al, >> >> You’ve got to have a pretty thick skin to be on a mailing list - >> sometimes people post *several *messages in a row that may be over your >> head, in regards to people or events you have no knowledge of, or just >> plain boring. In these cases it is best to just buddha-up - find your >> delete key and go with the flow. If you really can’t see why the members of >> this particular list might be interested this *particular* “celebrity’s” >> correspondence in this matter — if you truly have “no idea what it is >> about” — then perhaps you should save your comments until you do have some >> inkling of what’s going around you. Then you won’t appear petulant or >> uninformed when you wish to participate rationally at a later time. >> >> Good luck! >> >> >> On Nov 19, 2013, at 2:23 PM, Al Billings <albill(a)openbuddha.com> wrote: >> >> Yes, he’s a precious celebrity. >> >> On Nov 19, 2013, at 11:13 AM, Ted Smith <tedks(a)riseup.net> wrote: >> >> It's a forwarded message. It's copied to the list because it's relevant >> to the list, just like the discussion of the book's launch was relevant >> to the list, way back when all of the people complaining about posts >> from Jim Fucking Bell on the CYPHERPUNKS list weren't on said list. >> >> >> Al Billings >> albill(a)openbuddha.com >> http://makehacklearn.org >> >> >> >> > > > -- > "On two occasions I have been asked, 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into > the > machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able > rightly > to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a > question." > > -Charles Babbage, 19th century English mathematician, philosopher, inventor > and mechanical engineer who originated the concept of a programmable > computer. > > -- "On two occasions I have been asked, 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." -Charles Babbage, 19th century English mathematician, philosopher, inventor and mechanical engineer who originated the concept of a programmable computer.

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48 Minute Video of NSA DDIR John Inglis at NYU 19 November 2019
by John Young 19 Nov '13

19 Nov '13

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ydkw4xgZ-Y&feature=c4-overview&list=UURwhQQ…

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RetroShare
by rysiek 19 Nov '13

19 Nov '13

OHAI, So, this project has been noted here on several occasions, but I still lack some serious opinions. Here's a chance to voice them. What do you think of RetroShare? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retroshare http://retroshare.sourceforge.net/ inb4 "Java suxxorz" -- yes, I tend to hold that view myself; hoever, if RetroShare is a workable solution, we can simply add C++/Python/Whatever implementations later, right? -- Pozdr rysiek

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Re: [guardian-dev] Lavabit's Dark Mail Initiative
by elijah 19 Nov '13

19 Nov '13

On 11/18/2013 09:37 AM, Josh Steiner wrote: > http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ladar/lavabits-dark-mail-initiative > > Basically, it is an initiative to open source the lavabit's internal > code and turn it into a new secure mail protocol they are calling > "Dark Mail" The really annoying thing is that lavabit's platform and Dark Mail are totally incompatible and have nothing to do with one another. So the kickstarter is meaningless. * lavabit's prior software allowed the service provider to encrypt a user's IMAP disk storage individually to the password of the user. * darkmail is a project driven mostly by silentcircle that is to create something entirely new that is email-like, but not email. In case you missed it, moxie did a pretty good job explaining why lavabit's old code should die and should most definitely NOT be open sourced or used by anyone: http://www.thoughtcrime.org/blog/lavabit-critique/ This critique was later posted to arstechnica, and then later there was an exchange on reddit under Ladar's AMA in which Ladar doubled down on his completely unjustified claims and Moxie doubled down on lavabit being total snakeoil: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1qetvk/i_am_ladar_levison_owner_and_o… It is not pretty. Moxie is correct, of course, but a valid defense of the lavabit model would have been to talk about how US law treats data at rest very differently than data in transit. This was not the approach Ladar pursued. It does not totally matter, because that potential justification doesn't hold true anymore based on what we now know. So, really, there is no justification for making the lavabit approach open source. The darkmail project is interesting in that they have promised all things to all people: * end-to-end client-side encryption * automatic management of keys * not email, but xmpp used in an email-like way * but maybe also gateways to email for backward compatibility * asynchronous forward secrecy and metadata protection via SCIMP 2.0 * thunderbird extension * local imap & smtp server so you can use existing mail user agent * open protocol and open source code so anyone can adopt * tools to make it easy for a service provider to use Because we don't have any details yet on darkmail it is impossible to critique. What we do know is that SCIMP 1.0 doesn't have the properties that are promised, and they can't be added without basically a whole new protocol. But I think darkmail is exciting and is making the right promises (total end-to-end security). I certainly hope they will answer my emails :) Of course, LEAP (https://leap.se/email) already does almost everything that darkmail wants to do, with the one caveat that currently we use SMTP exclusively and rely on the service provider for PFS and metadata protection (although we have a plan to fix this in the future). -elijah _______________________________________________ Guardian-dev mailing list Post: Guardian-dev(a)lists.mayfirst.org List info: https://lists.mayfirst.org/mailman/listinfo/guardian-dev To Unsubscribe Send email to: Guardian-dev-unsubscribe(a)lists.mayfirst.org Or visit: https://lists.mayfirst.org/mailman/options/guardian-dev/eugen%40leitl.org You are subscribed as: eugen(a)leitl.org

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SOS
by Lilith Lela 18 Nov '13

18 Nov '13

Hi, We received a request from https://twitter.com/S0Sph for us using and recommending this site/service http://sos.ph/ Earlier, a few weeks ago, I had been briefly looking at this https://cryptostorm.is/ These darknet tokens. R it useful in activist contexts? What you think? Got perhaps (external to this service(s)) links and/or insights for us so we can figure out how it works exactly, and what its vulnerabilities r? Cheers, Lilith

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Re: [coreboot] BadBIOS Thoughts
by Patrick Georgi 18 Nov '13

18 Nov '13

Am 17.11.2013 21:46, schrieb Alex: > [Broken record warning] What if, somehow, the community gathered a few > brains, talked to a vendor, and convinced them to put coreboot on a > yet-to-be-released product? It would almost seem like the community > would do most of the work for free. What sort of responses have we > received in the past with this approach? System 76, ThinkPenguin, > Pudget, etc... have we tried any of them? They have sleek systems, and > at least the first two value openness more than the average. Those three list Intel based notebooks only (not even a token AMD device). From the point of view of free firmware, all of them are unsuitable, since free (and open, and trustable) Intel firmware implementations are only available for museum class^W^Wlong-term support hardware. I think the only x86 notebook with completely free firmware these days that can be bought easily is http://shop.gluglug.org.uk/product/ibm-lenovo-thinkpad-x60-coreboot/ (featuring those Intel museum chips) And I guess doing something like that group is the only working approach for now: Pick some notebook (something recent), free its firmware, sell the pre-modded boxes (and publish numbers!). If you manage to sell significant volumes (which shouldn't be all that large), that might turn some heads. There are some issues with this approach: You're limited in your choice of base hardware (likely AMD/Via chipsets only, the EC must be manageable with reasonable effort) and it must be available for some time (no fun doing a port for 2 months, then selling the notebook for another 4, after which it's taken off the market, and you have to start from scratch). And, of course, when doing this, you carry the usual entrepreneurial risk. Patrick -- coreboot mailing list: coreboot(a)coreboot.org http://www.coreboot.org/mailman/listinfo/coreboot

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