- cypherpunks - lists.cpunks.org

Public discourse progressing - [ahrc@unsw.edu.au: Book launch: Cultural heritage and human rights | 15th May 2017 at 5pm]
by Zenaan Harkness 02 May '17

02 May '17

I cannot speak much to the "Australian Human Rights Centre", but they're Aussies, so they're probably not all bad, and they're from a University, so they're probably a bit bookish, which wouldn't bee too foreign to most folks these days ... What stands out is that "politically correct" public discourse is evidently on the move, and I say (in this example at least), in a good way, and in a good direction. By denying any part of our reality, which includes our cultural/national heritage, we are submitting ourselves to an artificial discourse, submitting ourselves artificially to a denial of part of ourselves and our communities. "The Left" has had a strong hold on the public discourse now for a few decades indeed, and some would say to the result of some distinctly negative consequences, incuding the inability to even discuss certain topics ("did the holocaust actually happen, in anything like what the typical belief/ hollywood projection is?"), and with other discussions stilted, curtailed and altogether biased in ways which are against our interests. And so it is a good thing that some of these Politically Correct strictures are being busted, and we begin to publicly discuss any topic that individuals consider to be important. If you consider this type of conversation important, then consider forwarding this to those who might agree with you. Regards, Zenaan ----- Forwarded message from The Australian Human Rights Centre <ahrc(a)unsw.edu.au> ----- From: The Australian Human Rights Centre <ahrc(a)unsw.edu.au> To: zen(a)freedbms.net Reply-To: The Australian Human Rights Centre <ahrc(a)unsw.edu.au> Date: Tue, 2 May 2017 06:53:54 +0000 Subject: Book launch: Cultural heritage and human rights | 15th May 2017 at 5pm The AHRCentre invites you to https://www.eventbrite.com.au/e/book-launch-cultural-heritage-and-human-rig… Cultural heritage and human rights: documentary screening and book launch edited by Andrea Durbach and Lucas Lixinski Date: Monday, 15 May 2017 Time: 5pm - 7pm Venue: Common Room, Level 2, UNSW Law Cultural heritage is a critical component of cultural identity and its deliberate destruction can have a detrimental and enduring impact on human dignity and human rights. Events in Syria and Iraq underscore this relationship. We invite you to a screening of the award-winning documentary The Destruction of Memory (http://destructionofmemoryfilm.com/?mc_cid=e99babcf10&mc_eid=[UNIQID]) and to the launch of Heritage, Culture and Rights: Challenging Legal Discourses (http://www.bloomsburyprofessional.com/uk/heritage-culture-and-rights-978184…) edited by Andrea Durbach and Lucas Lixinski. The book will be launched by Annmaree O'Keeffe (http://dfat.gov.au/international-relations/international-organisations/un/u…) , Chair of the Australian National Commission for UNESCO. Click here for details about Heritage, Culture and Rights: Challenging Legal Discourses (http://www.bloomsburyprofessional.com/uk/heritage-culture-and-rights-978184…) RSVP (https://www.eventbrite.com.au/e/book-launch-cultural-heritage-and-human-rig…) ============================================================ Copyright © 2017 AHRCentre, All rights reserved. We've sent this email to you because you have subscribed to our newsletters. Our mailing address is: AHRCentre UNSW Law UNSW Sydney, NSW 2052 Australia Want to change how you receive these emails? You can ** update your preferences (http://ahrcentre.us10.list-manage1.com/profile?u=34bbc8dd21e24b7b231922920&…) or ** unsubscribe from this list (http://ahrcentre.us10.list-manage.com/unsubscribe?u=34bbc8dd21e24b7b2319229…) ----- End forwarded message -----

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Re: A raging public debate - or not - was [zen@freedbms.net: Re: republican fools]
by 'Zenaan Harkness' 02 May '17

02 May '17

On Tue, May 02, 2017 at 04:35:56PM +1000, Charles Mollison wrote: > Full marks to John Wilson! > > Such a gathering would achieve much of what Zenaan is asking for. So you say. But do you address what is said? > The FNR Draft Constitution was conceived over ten years by hundreds > of ordinary Australians (no lawyers or politicians) with just such > a gathering in mind. Oh? Over 10 years? Which is why all the "freedom people" I am aware of, and a few of which I've named, all know about this "10 year effort". YOU, Charles Mollison, are a deceiver... > The idea was to provide a start point for discussions ...and a liar. And I'll explain why for the benefit of those who are unable to see your performance for what it is: Charles Mollison says: 1) "This is a 10 year 'community' effort people!" 2) "Oh we just had this idea you see, just to kick off a discussion" But Charles, you said you started 10 years ago? "Why yes" says Charles. But Charles, then you say it's just an idea to kick off a community discussion? "Why yes" says Charles. But Charles, you say that this massive 10 year effort is only by the community? "Why yes" says Charles. But Charles, if you just wanted to kick off a discussion, why did it take you 10 years to tell us all about it - we've all been on email for the last 15 to 20+ years at least? Charles: "well ... umm ... please ignore the contradiction". You, Charles Molison, are treating us like morons, like we are missing a brain cell or two. You throw around an accolade or three, patting a few folks on the back condescendingly "there, there, citizen", telling us "all your problems will be solved with this one little thing we've done ... whoops, sorry, did I say we? I meant, this one little thing that a huge bunch of YOU GUYS have done over the last 10 years, even though none of you know fuck all about it". My, my, Charles, what big contradictory sentences you have there . . . > and to show people like Zenaan that change for the better is > possible without ''throwing the baby out with the bath water!" Yes, yes Charles, we hear you loud and clear, you and your cronies have got all the solutions to all our problems, and you have no need to answer John Wilson, Gerrit, Stefanovski or anyone else in the community with clear, genuine, and fundamental problems with what you're saying, because, yes, yes Charles, that's right, this "new constitution to solve all our problems" is not coming from you, it's coming from us, because we all discussed it as a community over the last 10 years Charles. My, my Charles, what big lies you have there... > The FNR Draft Constitution is NOT presented as the final solution. It only took you 10 years to develop it, why the hell is it NOT a final solution - or is it, The Final Solution from Nazi Germany to wipe out The Jewish Problem Charles? > It is published (at great personal expense) Because whipping it up on a website is SOOOO expensive Charles. Yes, yes Charles, your words make PERFECT SENSE! > so the PEOPLE can see a whole, Ah yes Charles, that's right Charles, you are publishing "the final solution", so we the pathetic people can see what WE SUPPOSEDLY CREATED OVER THE LAST 10 YEARS! If only we'd actually known that this is what we'd done in the last 10 years, then we'd all know about it already. My, my, Charles, what PERFECT sense you make Charles! > conclusive and totally integrated example of what could be > achieved. Yes, I hear you Charles, we're all so stupid that our stupid cries for justice, for trial by jury, and for our politicians and courts to STICK TO THE CONSTITUTION WE ALREADY HAVE, is just so stupid of us, that's why we need you, Charles, you and your cronies Charles, to save us from our own stupidity, and so now ... ... you present ... ... your ... wait for it ... final solution! Yes, yes, Charles, we hear you - a final, "proper" constitution, because what we're all those stoopid founding fathers spending countless 1000s of hours and 15+ years of conferences doing? Just who the hell did they think they were trying to create a constitution, they didn't know shit, that's right Charles? Yes, they had no idea what they were doing which is why you Charles, you are your cronies ... now present to us ... wait for it ... AT GREAT PERSONAL EXPENSE ... Dum, dah dah dahhhhhhhhhhh ..... a PROPER constitution! But I thought it should be by the people Charles? "That's why we're presenting it to you now, fool" sayeth Charles. But, I thought you said we already all talked and discussed about it over the last 10 years Charles? "Why yes, yes I did say that" sayeth Charles. And you keep a straight face Charles? "Why yes, yes I do" sayeth Charles. > And so that the PEOPLE have a basis on which to conduct a > fruitful discussion. So "we the community" spent the last *** 10 years !! *** discussing this draft constitution, so the we "the PEOPLE" (according to you) can have a basis on which to "conduct a fruitful discussion", because if you had not come up with a draft upon which we could conduct a fruitful discussion, we plebian PEOPLE are so bloody stupid, we could not hope to have a "fruitful discussion". My, my, Charles, what condescending words and lusciously contradictory logic you have there Charles... > One thing is for sure and that is that nothing will change while > every man and his dog is offering up partial solutions and every > other man and his dog is tearing him down. Well Charles, one thing is for certain and that is that nothing will change while men such as yourself proclaim to act in service to the community whilst speaking condescendingly to us "community" and lying your face off whilst you do it. Hmm? > I started on this journey more than 20 years ago and the reason I > have been quiet of late is because I got sick of the bickering > between activists who SHOULD be pulling together. And I s'pose you wonder why the PEOPLE don't flock to your glorious side? It surprises my why they don't Charles, it really surprises me... I'm sure John, Jim, Gerrit and the rest are just kicking themselves that they all missed out on your glorious "community consultations" to create a "proper constitution" that you made (you or the people Charles?) at "great personal expense to yourself". Well, well, Charles, what a wicked web you weave... > I am prepared to forward a complimentary, hard copy of the Draft > Constitution to anyone in this discussion at my own expense. Just Trying to save face now? How about you own up to your egotistical bullshit first, apologize profusely, and stop speaking so condescendingly to us all? How does that sound as a face saving gesture? > send me an address. The only cost to you is that I ask you to get > back to me with what you don't like about it and why! So you and your worldly "Lords" can come back and present "The people's constitution" that you now spent "20 years" preparing, ahem, that the people spent preparing? Please, Charles, what do you take us for? Evidently you take us for fools. As some might, for some random unknown reason, think to say, "take a hike, Charles". I dunno, some might think to say that. I don't know why, it just sort of randomly springs to mind... Sincerely, Zenaan, Victoria, South Australia > Charles > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Wilson [mailto:jhwilson@rightsandwrong.com.au] ...

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Re: A raging public debate - or not - was [zen@freedbms.net: Re: republican fools]
by 'Zenaan Harkness' 02 May '17

02 May '17

On Tue, May 02, 2017 at 02:35:52PM +1000, John Wilson wrote: > Dear Zenaan, > > " that's what we expect from the government" is a statement that can't go > unnoticed..........people are misled into think parliaments are > government.............parliaments are NOT government........courts are > government (attached explanation).........and we, if we only knew some > history, must not shirk from demanding trial by jury to govern ourselves and > our country from our courts. > > Therefore, you should have said, "that's what we should expect from > ourselves". I agree with this. And well said, thank you, Zenaan (We work from existing reality, and dominant existing think. There are alternative future utopias, some are easier to approach than others.) > Yours sincerely, > John Wilson.

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A raging public debate - or not - was [zen@freedbms.net: Re: republican fools]
by Zenaan Harkness 02 May '17

02 May '17

The eternal vigilance we must display when we have relatively solid foundations, as we do in Australia notwithstanding the mostly self serving corrup politicians and other power brokers, is notable. At least once a year, those behind the scenes to to fuck us over in Australia, with deceptive and undermining "public discourse". And roughly every 10 to 20 years, TPTB actually run a referendum to try to turn Australia into a republic, on one or another "emotive, politically correct, hot social topic of the day" such as: - "recognizing" Aboriginals in the constitution so the parliament can pass laws specifically about them (pro- or anti-) thus instituting a constitutionally racist regime - getting rid of "the Queen" or "the Crown" or "the Monarch" as head of state because "surely we got ta have an Australian as head of state" (the current topic du jour), which is hogwash, since the ultimate Australian head of state is only titular anyway (i.e. holding no significant power except some power to declare war, which has always been left to our parliament anyway) - turning us into a republic, because "republics are wonderful, just look at America" In all cases, the public discourse as lead by TPTB is deceptive and highly narrow - the LEGAL foundations within our current system/ federal Australian constitution, are always ignored (except that we in the public open our eyes to the deception and have the conversation we need to have), such as the following legal foundations: - invocation of the Blessing of Almighty God (legally, a GREAT foundation to have in any constitution) - the Crown/ the parliament of the UK (legally good for us since it brings in Magna Charta, Bill of Rights (old English/imperial bill of rights - i.e. William and Mary Cess.) and other imperial legislation some of which is absolutely in our interests as individual humans within Australia. Alas, the powers that be don't like the fact of the existence of the Blessing of Almighty God at the foundation of our Australian federal Constitution! They also don't like the fact that our forefathers discussed in the constitution debates, and specifically spoke "the supreme absolute and uncontrollable authority remains with the people". And so, as to be expected, The Powers That Be continue to try to undermine these (by any modern standards) very good, foundations that we have in Austalia. Regards, Zenaan ----- Forwarded message from Zenaan Harkness <zen(a)freedbms.net> ----- From: Zenaan Harkness <zen(a)freedbms.net> To: Charles Mollison <cobbscrossing(a)bigpond.com> Cc: 'John Wilson' <jhwilson(a)rightsandwrong.com.au>, 'Doug Harrison' <dougharrison1950(a)gmail.com>, 'RAY PLATT' <rayplatt(a)iinet.net.au>, 'Rena Iliades' <facrena(a)gmail.com>, 'Bev' <lbpattenden(a)bordernet.com.au>, 'Mark B' <underthewire4me(a)gmail.com>, cppeele(a)mindspring.com, debitax(a)yahoo.com.au, darryl.o(a)hotmail.com, davedale(a)iprimus.com.au, dpringle(a)alphalink.com.au, 'Peter Lindsay' <ewenme.lindsay(a)gmail.com>, 'Mark Filby' <markfilby(a)hotmail.com>, flora(a)reachnet.com.au, 'Gerrit Schorel-Hlavka' <inspector_rikati(a)yahoo.com.au>, grandduchy(a)hotmail.com, gregcadwallader(a)hotmail.com, 'George Gault' <georgegault4(a)gmail.com>, 'Jim' <jim.sovereign(a)optusnet.com.au>, johng444(a)bigpond.com, 'Jim MacLeod' <jim.macleod(a)nor.com.au>, 'JohnV' <jvella(a)dodo.com.au>, knowyourrights(a)ratfm.com, lyn(a)aldoda.com, marsiergn2000(a)yahoo.com.au, nmaine(a)bigpond.net.au, ozliberatas(a)skymesh.com.au, peterforde(a)ozunited.com, "'Us @ SumOfUs'" <us(a)sumofus.org>, andrew(a)colonialleather.com.au, timbodedidlio(a)gmail.com, beatonmydrum1(a)aol.com, fenja_schulze(a)yahoo.com Date: Tue, 2 May 2017 12:44:52 +1000 Subject: Re: republican fools On Tue, May 02, 2017 at 11:16:39AM +1000, Charles Mollison wrote: > We would all do well to take note of John Wilson’s wise words here below. > > However, a new Constitution could fix all these problems if it is > properly drafted. (Whether or not it be for a Constitutional > Monarchy OR a Democratic Republic.) Please stop spreading such rubbish! Per the Quick and Garran annotations and the foundational hansard conferences and debates: "The supreme absolute and uncontrollable authority remains with the people." Those who push for change are failing to see that we in Australia, already have one of the finest constitutions, IN THE WORLD! We cannot grant to ourselves MORE authority than we, the people, are already declared to have, by our CURRENT constitution. The ONLY problems are that people DON'T KNOW THE TRUTH, they don't know what we already have, such as we already have a Bill of Rights!! (The old English bill of rights - William and Mary Cess.) ALL we have to do is start LIVING the rights we already have. The current foundation of our federal constitution in Australia is about as good as it gets, for us/ we the people. Sure, there are a FEW relatively minor areas for improvement, but ANY MAJOR CHANGE will all but certainly DESTROY the incredibly powerful and protective foundations that we already have. Your words "a new Constitution could fix all these problems" are deceptive. Your deceptive words might be deceptive due to a need for understanding on your part. I hope that's the only reason you are spreading deceptive words. Your words suggesting a "Democratic Republic" would be acceptable are also deceptive - "Whether or not it be for a Constitutional Monarchy OR a Democratic Republic." Charles Mollison, please STOP using deceptive words. As Gerrit Schorel-Hlavka, Jim Stephanovski, Malcolm McClure, Joyn Wilson and many others have said, CORRECTLY I add: A republic puts the parliament OVER we the people! When you suggest or imply in your words to people that a republic is a reasonable option, you are making a false and or deceptive suggestion to people. Please STOP making false and deceptive suggestions to people. Another awesome foundation in our CURRENT constitution, just another of the reasons we have one of the greatest constitutions in the world, is that our Australian federal constitution affirms at its foundation, the Blessing of Almighty God. This affirmation that our constitution is founded "humbly relying on the Blessing of Almighty God" is one of the most powerful legal foundations that we can, individually, rely upon, in the courts in Australia! This Blessing of Almighty God, as it is SPECIFICALLY AFFIRMED AND WORDED/ CONSTRUCTED in our Australia federal constitution, Fellow Australians, let's PROTECT the awesome LEGAL FOUNDATIONS in our current Australian federal constitution! Let's protect those great affirmations and legal constructions in the very foundation of our Australian constitutional monarchy which our forefathers so wisely handed to us on a silver plate! Let us continue to remind those who misrepresent the truth of our powerful Australian constitutional monarchy - powerful for we the people, powerful legal foundations, humbly affirming the sovereignty of we the people as ABOVE the parliaments and bloody and opportunistic politicians who want MORE authority, which they can only take from us by DESTROYING those foundations that we already have in our existing Australian federal constitution! > The Foundation for National Renewal has drafted such a new > Constitution. It is available from FNR at cobbscrossing(a)bigpond.com > <mailto:cobbscrossing@bigpond.com> . ($10 plus P&P). Although only > a draft, we believe it has answers for all the warnings John Wilson > raises in his article below. Your approach is opportunistic. Your requirement for money to engage in any such conversation is fundamentally at odds with the modern reality. Your implication of "special authority and insight" from yourself and or those you associate with is ABSOLUTELY OBJECTIONABLE! How DARE you assert (by implication or otherwise) to the rest of us that we cannot think for ourselves, or cannot engage fully in the very foundation of EVERY conversation potentially affective our future! How dare you use deceptive, condescending and fundamentally undermining words! Your approach is fundamentally wrong, deceptive and flawed. And the biggest joke is that even the attachments you send have major problems, and you are probably so unaware as to realise what those problems are.. it would be funny if it wasn't so sad. > Check it out. At least the subject is appropriate - "republican fools" indeed. Charles Mollison your foundations are flawed, your execution is flawed, and the words you continue to use are deceptive! Your intentions may be good, in which case you have much to learn, and I implore you to please stop using words which deceive our fellow Australians and encourage the ignorant to walk in directions which are absolutely detrimental to our common individual and shared collective authority and well legal being!! If you are truly sincere, please read some of Gerrit Schorel-Hlavka's books, or some of Andrew Moyles letters and court submissions, or damn, read some of our existing federal constitution! If you are truly sincere, you would have involved yourself in the various discussions that happen in our community in last two decades! But we have not seen you be involved. - When Gerrit was in court, Charles where were you with your support and review of his documents? - When Mr Moyle was supporting others in court, where were you Charles with your support? - When Mr Stefanovski brought to our attention the court cases of fellow Australians, when Mr Wilson and his crew were in court and beating the "trial by jury" drum, WHERE WERE YOU Mr Charles Mollison?!! - and dozens of other examples ... Charles, you prance onto the scene, charging for some "new solution to all our problems", made by folks who you imply "know how to PROPERLY draft a constitution", SO MUCH BETTER than the dozens of men and women and 100s if not 1000s more behind the scenes who drafted our current constitution over 100 years ago - and you expect us to run along with your implication that "BAH! What would all those founding fathers know! They were so stooopid they did not even know how to PROPERLY draft a constitution!" The conceit and pride you have just displayed Mr Charles Mollison! "Oh what would 100s of founding fathers diligently meeting and discussing over 15 years even know!" The only real problem is the ratbags getting elected, good people failing to stand for election and failing to unite with other good people, those in power who abuse their power (regardless of what any "constitution" says), and the lack of education of our fellow Australians about our awesome foundations and how to use those foundations! WE NEED A NEW CONSTITUTION LIKE WE NEED FLOURIDE IN OUR WATER. A shout out to all those who who stand and solid foundations, including: - Gerrit Schorel-Hlavka, valiantly and consistently defending the true foundations of our excellent federal constitution - Malcolm McClure, who tought me and many others the value of standing on solid foundations of our constitution, Magna Carta, Bill of Rights and more, in the courts - John Wilson, religiously beating the drum on the importance of our CONSTITUTIONAL foundation of trial by jury and its eminent remedial utility - Jim Stefanovski, steadfastly engaging us all in the public discourse, making valiant individual stand, and providing moral support to others who try to stand as well - Andrew Moyle, ever vigilant on our Australian foundations and supporting those he can There are so many others, many still with us, still standing and still speaking out well and strong like Ray Platt, and others who have gone before and, who made incredible stands, true credits to Australia as a nation. Let's all do a little bit more, perhaps read one foundation document (or section) per month that we have not yet read, perhaps giving moral support to those who make a true stand (as best we can ascertain individually), and let us be eternally vigilant against the forces of deception and destruction, against those conversations and against those actions that would and do undermine us, undermine our fellow Aussies, and undermine the very foundations which are good and wholesome and which have proven the test of time DESPITE far too many ratbags getting into power just to serve themselves and their crony mates! Eternal vigilance fellow freedom fighters - eternal vigilance. Respectfully to all those who uphold our truly good and wholesome foundations in our Australian federal constitution, our "constitutional monarchy", Zenaan Harkness, Victoria, Australia ----- End forwarded message -----

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Re: A raging public debate - or not - was [zen@freedbms.net: Re: republican fools]
by 'Zenaan Harkness' 02 May '17

02 May '17

Dear John, I don't think the timings quite right - perhaps 2018 I'd say. Also, it would be (just at this point in time) merely a reaction to ARM and Charles Mollison - NOT the right approach (that's what we expect from the government). We can do better, and besides, in this day and age, we can communicate readily and speedily online compared to 100 years ago, that's pretty awesome :) Regards, Zenaan On Tue, May 02, 2017 at 02:01:12PM +1000, John Wilson wrote: > Dear Zenaan, > > It's time we had a CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION - like what they done in the 1890s. > How about holding it at the Australian National University campus in Canberra? > A 3-day weekend ought to do it....Friday, Saturday & Sunday. > Give everybody sufficient notice... say, 6 months.....November is enough time to save up for the trip from anywhere in our vast brown land. > Anyone who wants to peddle his concepts can have a stall. > A timetable of presentations can be put together......with Q&As, of course.......using the lecture theatres. > We can have political parties there, too, along with special-interest groups, etc. > We need not actually produce a definitive document, at the end of the 3 days.........we just need to have a checklist of the essential elements to go into one. > > How about it? > > Yours sincerely, > John Wilson. > Ph: 0401 413 650 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Zenaan Harkness [mailto:zen@freedbms.net] > Sent: Tuesday, 2 May 2017 1:09 PM > To: CypherPunks > Cc: 'Jim'; Charles Mollison; 'John Wilson'; 'Doug Harrison'; 'RAY PLATT'; 'Rena Iliades'; 'Bev'; 'Mark B'; cppeele(a)mindspring.com; debitax(a)yahoo.com.au; darryl.o(a)hotmail.com; davedale(a)iprimus.com.au; dpringle(a)alphalink.com.au; 'Peter Lindsay'; 'Mark Filby'; flora(a)reachnet.com.au; 'Gerrit Schorel-Hlavka'; grandduchy(a)hotmail.com; gregcadwallader(a)hotmail.com; 'George Gault'; johng444(a)bigpond.com; 'Jim MacLeod'; 'JohnV'; knowyourrights(a)ratfm.com; lyn(a)aldoda.com; marsiergn2000(a)yahoo.com.au; nmaine(a)bigpond.net.au; ozliberatas(a)skymesh.com.au; peterforde(a)ozunited.com; 'Us @ SumOfUs' > Subject: A raging public debate - or not - was [zen(a)freedbms.net: Re: republican fools] > > The eternal vigilance we must display when we have relatively solid > foundations, as we do in Australia notwithstanding the mostly self > serving corrup politicians and other power brokers, is notable. ...

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A raging public debate - or not - Part 4 - was [zen@freedbms.net: Re: Trial by Jury]
by Zenaan Harkness 02 May '17

02 May '17

It gets better :) Zenaan ----- Forwarded message from Zenaan Harkness <zen(a)freedbms.net> ----- From: Zenaan Harkness <zen(a)freedbms.net> To: Charles Mollison <cobbscrossing(a)bigpond.com> Date: Tue, 2 May 2017 13:19:19 +1000 Subject: Re: Trial by Jury On Tue, May 02, 2017 at 01:04:09PM +1000, Charles Mollison wrote: > Dear Doug > > Trial by jury is terrific and is the only way to go. > > However, jury trials for every court case is simply impractical. > DO THE SUMS! Dear Charles, With your second sentence above ("However ... DO THE SUMS!") you have utterly detracted from your first sentence ("Trial by jury is terrific and is the only way to go.") So, evidently by your second sentence, although trial by jury may be terrific, according to YOU it is "NOT the only way to go". > Trial by jury in every case would mean each one of us would spend > half our life in court. Because if we DID have trial by jury, the police and the government would NOT be able to keep charging us for TRIVIAL SHIT. And so, Charles, when you imply otherwise, you are telling us with your grande authority that "we cannot have trial by jury" because otherwise the police and the courts could not enforce all their trivial and superficial fines. Astounding logic Charles, astounding logic! Just as well you're not promoting replacing our Australian federal constitution and its awesome Preamble and other foundations, or you might stuff Australia up "royally". Just as well mate, just as well... Zenaan > Charles > > > > From: Doug Harrison [mailto:dougharrison1950@gmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, 2 May 2017 10:30 AM > To: John Wilson <jhwilson(a)rightsandwrong.com.au> > Cc: CSubject: Re: republican fools > > > > active discussion and debate can only do good. > > > > One point is that the Common Law system of administratioe and every individualn of justice among the people is over 1400 years old, and the more modern form with Trial by Jury is around 850 years old. It is still claimed to be a great success today in England and Wales. (read my article No 6) History has a HUGH lesson for us to follow, traced back to before Alfred the Great. > > > > Charles Mollinson renewal is good, but NEVER tested, Why dive into the waters when you have no idea how deep, let alone strong currents to carry one away? > > Charles, I am not saying you constitutional ideas are right or wrong, just unnecessary. > > > > We can introduce Common :Law and Trial by Jury --- all Australians come responsible for justice amongst ourselves. How good for justice and teaching and making individuals responsible. > > Lord Irvine of Laig in 2002 whilst in Australia said Magna Charta still constitutionally applies in full in Australia, the only place in the world. Only 4 parts now in 2002 applied in England & Wales. > > > > So why re-invent the wheel ? > > > > We must remember in a terrifying world, our federation and Constitution hold good, sort of., and Australia is by geography and people the safest and best place on Earth. Let us create continuing peace, and a Common Law justice system. Then Parliaments will not be supreme , as they now claim, and the High Court is outside the common laws, and its jurisdiction outside the Common Law --- ie it is not an original court or appellant at Commom Law. > > > > We in fact ask for our full constitutional Law, which in 1828 was bequeated to the Colony of NSW and from their to all Australia to put into affect. We demand what in fact OURS, and just put it into FULL effect, today. > > > > Charles my historic investigation updated only months ago, reveal IRRESPONSIBILITY is part of responsible government in a federation. I cannot work properly without the moderating influence of the people, and that is what Common Law with Trial by Jury and investigation by Grand Jury will do. > > > > Your constitution would hand back responsibility to where it is today ??? > > > > Doug Harrison > > > > On Mon, May 1, 2017 at 11:01 PM, John Wilson <jhwilson(a)rightsandwrong.com.au <mailto:jhwilson@rightsandwrong.com.au> > wrote: > > Dear Charles Mollison, > > > > You did not mention TRIAL BY JURY as the method of PEOPLE GOVERNING THEMSELVES……….why? > > You should learn what TRIAL BYJURY actually is….the attachment, here, might help you begin. > > > > Yours sincerely, > > John Wilson. > > PS: Please email this “whole new Constitution such as is proposed in the Draft Constitution published by the Foundation for National Renewal (FNR).”..or give me the website where it can freely be found. > > > > > > From: Charles Mollison [mailto:cobbscrossing@bigpond.com <mailto:cobbscrossing@bigpond.com> ] > Sent: Monday, 1 May 2017 8:39 PM > To: 'Doug Harrison'; 'RAY PLATT'; 'Rena Iliades'; 'Bev'; 'Mark B'; cppeele(a)mindspring.com <mailto:cppeele@mindspring.com> ; debitax(a)yahoo.com.au <mailto:debitax@yahoo.com.au> ; darryl.o(a)hotmail.com <mailto:darryl.o@hotmail.com> ; davedale(a)iprimus.com.au <mailto:davedale@iprimus.com.au> ; dpringle(a)alphalink.com.au <mailto:dpringle@alphalink.com.au> ; 'Peter Lindsay'; 'Mark Filby'; flora(a)reachnet.com.au <mailto:flora@reachnet.com.au> ; 'Gerrit Schorel-Hlavka'; grandduchy(a)hotmail.com <mailto:grandduchy@hotmail.com> ; gregcadwallader(a)hotmail.com <mailto:gregcadwallader@hotmail.com> ; 'George Gault'; info(a)mycg.org <mailto:info@mycg.org> ; 'John Wilson'; 'Jim'; johng444(a)bigpond.com <mailto:johng444@bigpond.com> ; 'Jim MacLeod'; 'JohnV'; knowyourrights(a)ratfm.com; lyn(a)aldoda.com <mailto:lyn@aldoda.com> ; marsiergn2000(a)yahoo.com.au <mailto:marsiergn2000@yahoo.com.au> ; nmaine(a)bigpond.net.au <mailto:nmaine@bigpond.net.au> ; ozliberatas(a)skymesh.com.au <mailto:ozliberatas@skymesh.com.au> ; peterforde(a)ozunited.com <mailto:peterforde@ozunited.com> ; 'Us @ SumOfUs' > Cc: 'Tim Bullen'; 'Tony Royce'; 'Bodey, Cheyenne' > Subject: RE: republican fools > > > > Hi All > > The paper published by Doug Harrison on 1 May is ridiculous. It will do our opposition to the ARM no help at all. > > > > The ARM’s push for a republic is flawed in that they aim for simply dumping the Sovereign of UK as our Head of State – nothing else changes. Such a campaign could well result in a successful referendum when Australia is faced with King Charles 111 as our HoS. Very few Australians will want that. > > > > On the other hand, we do NOT want a President appointed by the politicians. > > > > Australia should not still be tied to the UK apron strings. We should have a Parliamentary Democracy with a President elected by the People to provide a check on the politicians. > > > > A referendum following the demise of Queen Elizabeth ll should be an opportunity to fix all the problems with our society and our system of government. This could be achieved with the adoption of a whole new Constitution such as is proposed in the Draft Constitution published by the Foundation for National Renewal (FNR). > > However, this is unlikely to happen in one referendum. > > > > The opportunity to have a referendum following the Demise of QE ll should be used to achieve a President elected by the People with his/her powers prescribed in our Constitution together with a change to Section 128 of the Constitution to give the People the right to propose amendment of our Constitution so that, over time we can fix all the other problems. > > > > Copies of the Draft Constitution by the FNR that provides a blue-print for a rosy future are available from the FNR. > > Simply email cobbscrossing(a)bigpond.com <mailto:cobbscrossing@bigpond.com> ($20 plus P&P). ----- End forwarded message -----

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A raging public debate - or not - Part 3 - was [zen@freedbms.net: Re: Australian Republican Movement]
by Zenaan Harkness 02 May '17

02 May '17

----- Forwarded message from Zenaan Harkness <zen(a)freedbms.net> ----- From: Zenaan Harkness <zen(a)freedbms.net> To: Charles Mollison <cobbscrossing(a)bigpond.com> Cc: 'Doug Harrison' <dougharrison1950(a)gmail.com>, 'RAY PLATT' <rayplatt(a)iinet.net.au>, 'Rena Iliades' <facrena(a)gmail.com>, 'Bev' <lbpattenden(a)bordernet.com.au>, 'Mark B' <underthewire4me(a)gmail.com>, cppeele(a)mindspring.com, debitax(a)yahoo.com.au, darryl.o(a)hotmail.com, davedale(a)iprimus.com.au, dpringle(a)alphalink.com.au, 'Peter Lindsay' <ewenme.lindsay(a)gmail.com>, 'Mark Filby' <markfilby(a)hotmail.com>, flora(a)reachnet.com.au, 'Gerrit Schorel-Hlavka' <inspector_rikati(a)yahoo.com.au>, grandduchy(a)hotmail.com, gregcadwallader(a)hotmail.com, 'George Gault' <georgegault4(a)gmail.com>, 'Jim' <jim.sovereign(a)optusnet.com.au>, johng444(a)bigpond.com, 'Jim MacLeod' <jim.macleod(a)nor.com.au>, 'JohnV' <jvella(a)dodo.com.au>, knowyourrights(a)ratfm.com, lyn(a)aldoda.com, marsiergn2000(a)yahoo.com.au, nmaine(a)bigpond.net.au, ozliberatas(a)skymesh.com.au, andrew(a)colonialleather.com.au, jillb483(a)gmail.com, gilmay97(a)gmail.com, fenja_schulze(a)yahoo.com, beatonmydrum1(a)aol.com, timbodedidlio(a)gmail.com Date: Tue, 2 May 2017 12:56:21 +1000 Subject: Re: Australian Republican Movement On Tue, May 02, 2017 at 11:36:36AM +1000, Charles Mollison wrote: > Just to illustrate that the ARM is motivated, financed and active! > > Unless we get united and work together, the ARM will succeed in > scrapping the Monarchy and having an Australian Head of State but > we will left with all the other problems in our society and system > of government that John has touched on. Just to illustrate the nature of this 1-2 pronged attack which Charles Mollison is either wittingly or unwittingly engaged in with ARM: - ARM proposes to scrap the monarchy, fundamentally destroying the superb foundation in the Preamble to our Australia federal constitution, thus creating A) the problem - "oh no" say the people "they're creating a problem", thus demonstrating: B) the reaction and finally: - Charles Mollison walzes along and proposes: C) the solution yet fundamentally, Charles Mollison's solution is ALSO fatally flawed, thus exposing what is know as (check it out on the internet/ wikipedia etc) The false dichotomy. The false dichotomy presents two evils or two problems, and says (or better yet, implies) that we must choose between the two of them. But both are evil, problematic, fundamentally and fatally flawed, and are actually designed by those who want something, against the interests of those who they are targetting (we the Australian people). It is a false dichotomy because it says there are only two options, in this case: A) change our Australian constitution in a bad way B) change our Australian constitution in a really bad way But of course, not only is there the option to change our constitution (which as almost always proposed by government power brokers and their witting and unwitting cohorts), but there is a THIRD option, to NOT change our constitution, giving us: A) change our Australian constitution in a bad way B) change our Australian constitution in a really bad way C) do NOT change our Australian constitution Those want either A) or B) (they don't care which of A or B they get, as long as they get either of them), DESPERATELY want us to ignore option C), and try to create a public dialogue that Pre-supposes that option C does not even exist. Stay alert fellow people, stay alert! Eternal vigilance! Regards to all those who uphold our good and wholesome foundations in Australia, Zenaan Harkness ----- End forwarded message -----

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A raging public debate - or not - Part 2 - was [zen@freedbms.net: Re: republican fools]
by Zenaan Harkness 02 May '17

02 May '17

----- Forwarded message from Zenaan Harkness <zen(a)freedbms.net> ----- From: Zenaan Harkness <zen(a)freedbms.net> To: Charles Mollison <cobbscrossing(a)bigpond.com> Cc: 'Doug Harrison' <dougharrison1950(a)gmail.com>, 'RAY PLATT' <rayplatt(a)iinet.net.au>, 'Rena Iliades' <facrena(a)gmail.com>, 'Bev' <lbpattenden(a)bordernet.com.au>, 'Mark B' <underthewire4me(a)gmail.com>, cppeele(a)mindspring.com, debitax(a)yahoo.com.au, darryl.o(a)hotmail.com, davedale(a)iprimus.com.au, dpringle(a)alphalink.com.au, 'Peter Lindsay' <ewenme.lindsay(a)gmail.com>, 'Mark Filby' <markfilby(a)hotmail.com>, flora(a)reachnet.com.au, 'Gerrit Schorel-Hlavka' <inspector_rikati(a)yahoo.com.au>, grandduchy(a)hotmail.com, gregcadwallader(a)hotmail.com, 'George Gault' <georgegault4(a)gmail.com>, 'Jim' <jim.sovereign(a)optusnet.com.au>, johng444(a)bigpond.com, 'Jim MacLeod' <jim.macleod(a)nor.com.au>, 'JohnV' <jvella(a)dodo.com.au>, knowyourrights(a)ratfm.com, lyn(a)aldoda.com, marsiergn2000(a)yahoo.com.au, nmaine(a)bigpond.net.au, ozliberatas(a)skymesh.com.au, andrew(a)colonialleather.com.au, fenja_schulze(a)yahoo.com, beatonmydrum1(a)aol.com, timbodedidlio(a)gmail.com, jillb483(a)gmail.com Date: Tue, 2 May 2017 12:47:11 +1000 Subject: Re: Australian Republican Movement A warning to everyone, keep a close on eye on these "ARM" guys and anyone who even smells similar, they may well cause major, irreversible problems for Australia! Regards, Zenaan Harkness, Victoria, Australia On Tue, May 02, 2017 at 11:36:36AM +1000, Charles Mollison wrote: > > > Just to illustrate that the ARM is motivated, financed and active! > > > > Unless we get united and work together, the ARM will succeed in scrapping the Monarchy and having an Australian Head of State but we will left with all the other problems in our society and system of government that John has touched on. > > > > Charles Mollison > > <http://www.republic.org.au/?e=fe9d35277fc88c60545cc17c76199ef6&utm_source=a…> > > Hi Charles, > > We're hitting the streets to spread the message that Australia should have an Australian as head of state - and we need your help. > > The plan is simple: we are doing a targeted letterbox drop as part of a national day of action. The more homes we reach, the more interest we generate in our cause. The republic campaign is growing but the momentum we build depends on supporters like you. That's why we'd like you to come along and give us a hand to promote the republic: > > When? 10am, Saturday 13 May 2017. > Where? Volunteer meetup to be confirmed following RSVP. > How do I RSVP to help? Click on your State: > <http://www.republic.org.au/national_day_of_action_queensland?e=fe9d35277fc8…> QLD > <http://www.republic.org.au/national_day_of_action_nsw?e=fe9d35277fc88c60545…> NSW > <http://www.republic.org.au/national_day_of_action_act?e=fe9d35277fc88c60545…> ACT > <http://www.republic.org.au/national_day_of_action_victoria?e=fe9d35277fc88c…> VIC > <http://www.republic.org.au/national_day_of_action_tasmania?e=fe9d35277fc88c…> TAS > <http://www.republic.org.au/national_day_of_action_south_australia?e=fe9d352…> SA > <http://www.republic.org.au/national_day_of_action_wa?e=fe9d35277fc88c60545c…> WA > > We hope you can make it! > > You can help regardless of where you are on the day, so if you're in the country or regional Australia we'll send out a volunteer kit with instructions. And if you're busy on the day we have more activities planned in the coming months. > > Best, > > > David McGregor > National Organiser > Australian Republic Movement > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <http://www.republic.org.au/?e=fe9d35277fc88c60545cc17c76199ef6&utm_source=a…> > > This email is sent by the Australian Republic Movement. > > Australian Republic Movement > PO Box 7188 > Watson, ACT 2602 > Australia > > ACN 094 419 619 > > http://www.republic.org.au/unsubscribe > > <http://www.republic.org.au/r/o?e=fe9d35277fc88c60545cc17c76199ef6&utm_sourc…> > ----- End forwarded message -----

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McAfee: Everyone's a faggot, and so can you
by Telepwn Jesus 02 May '17

02 May '17

>inb4 "muh anti-islamj00++merikkkans" LARPing John McAfee, with the help of MGT [0], is building a "truly private smartphone". Nigger added switches on the back to physically disconnect the battery, camera, and microphone, as well as the antennas for WiFi, Bluetooth, & geolocation. No speaker switch, tho. With articles titled 'John McAfee’s ‘hack-proof’ phone is doomed to fail' it seems this fucker is headed down the correct path. Some quotes from the lungenpresse: >> None of this sounds like it’ll make a meaningful difference for users."" >> Hardware isn’t the problem when it comes to mobile privacy."" >> Privacy-focused hardware just isn’t that good of a business."" >> The market is already saturated with privacy phone failures."" Lol, these pozzed faggots can into journalism. Hardware has everything to do with security, software has everything to do with insecurity.”" -John McAfee [0]: mgtci.com/datastreamx/mgt-signs-letter-of-intent-to-develop-privacy-mobile-… [1]: newsweek.com/john-mcafee-privacy-phone-smartphone-590373

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Re: who are the right people?
by Ryan Carboni 02 May '17

02 May '17

Maybe. Maybe not. But regardless of who is moonlighting for whom, even if it is entirely unpaid and inadvertent (which beggars some disbelief), this was a top picture shared on many social media outlets: https://i.redd.it/m2qtwn72m7ny.png Not shown by the mainstream media though. Who decides for you what to think? Whoever it is, doesn't seem very trustworthy right now. Here's a simple law that congress could add that would decuple security: "copyright is voided for software two years after the end of life, or if after one year a critical vulnerability is unpatched" Well, lawyers could go through it and convert it into legalcode for the judicial architecture to parse. Personally I am very much in favor of allowing free reverse engineering of DOS and early Windows products. Regardless, the most important use of non-government encryption is the protection of trade secrets (hence the design of portable offline cipher machines up to the late eighties). The rights of poor people never go into the calculus of the powerful or the free market. For some reason, this calculus currently seems to also exclude national advantage. Everyone is hacking each other, but no one seems to really... care? Conclusions are hard to come by in this world for some reason. What would it take to convince you that your world view was entirely wrong? What world view could possibly fit the current four-dimensional model of the world? How hard would it be to reorient the current network of nonprofits in favor of privacy to well... improve privacy? Design open source products that are as secure as an iPhone? How hard is it to see that there's something seriously wrong with the world?

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