- cypherpunks - lists.cpunks.org

1984: Corp Spy-Censor-Mil Schmidt Google now Biden BigTech Partner
by grarpamp 10 Nov '20

10 Nov '20

https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2020/10/15/facebook-and-twitter-censor-biden… https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2020/11/10/report-biden-will-give-eric-schmi… https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2020/05/07/former-google-ceo-eric-schmidt-ta… https://www.ft.com/content/44f738e8-eb6f-4394-b833-6b3207ce31bf https://wikileaks.org/google-is-not-what-it-seems/ https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/10/31/wikileaks-googles-eric-schmidt-wa… "Biden already selling out to the tech robber barons. Amazing" "hired both Jessica Hertz, former associate general counsel at Facebook, and Cynthia Hogan, former Apple vice-president for government affairs to his transition team. Eric Schmidt, the former Google chief executive, has been a big fundraiser," Even before the biggest Media, Social, and Tech Bias and Censorship scam in history posted its fake election results, Biden's false Presidency is appointing all those involved dating back to even Clinton Obamba.

1 0

[OT] tia
by Cecilia Tanaka 10 Nov '20

10 Nov '20

I am slower than usual and was wondering what "tia" means... Matt is using it politely, meaning "Thanks in advance", but the first answer of my 5 seconds stupid research was much funnier, hihihi... :D Urban Dictionary: Tia <http://tia.urbanup.com/13569110#.X6qFDOaXnUQ> Take care and be well please, my dear cypherpunks. I love you! <3 -- ------- "Don't let anyone rob you of your imagination, your creativity, or your curiosity. It's your place in the world; it's your life. Go on and do all you can with it, and make it the life you want to live." - Mae Jemison

1 0

Queries
by professor rat 10 Nov '20

10 Nov '20

Curious about how long " Stiffs " dotcom has been going exactly. Also CJ's thoughts on ' Black Box " APster Vs " Open Source ". Too late to arrange an intervention for John Young? All and any help appreciated - TIA!

1 0

Zenaan Harkness is some kind of Xtian religious nut?
by professor rat 10 Nov '20

10 Nov '20

More evidence for Hercules than any " Jesus " . http://www.skeptically.org/newtestament/id28.html

1 0

Leaks: Declassification Trump Card - OP: DECLASSIFY EVERYTHING
by grarpamp 10 Nov '20

10 Nov '20

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2020/11/08/donald-trump-jr-declassify-… https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2020/10/11/heres-how-president-trump-c… https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2019/01/29/part-i-the-presidential-dec… https://mobile.twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/1325524657802522624 Donald Trump Jr: “Declassify Everything”… Posted on November 8, 2020 by sundance Amid all of the election ramifications and discussions, Donald Trump Jr. outlined a thought today that has likely been on the mind of many, myself included. I have spent a great deal of time thinking about this since the media began their insufferable onslaught and “president-elect Biden” narrative. The time has long past for President Trump to fully demand his executive cabinet members declassify the evidence outlining intrusive government surveillance upon not only himself, but all Americans. CTH has a rather unique perspective on the declassification angle. This conversation has traveled with me for over two years as I have talked to people inside the machinery. Ultimately the discussion ends around something like this: Is the DC political surveillance state, and all of the ramifications within that reality, so fundamentally corrupt and against our nation’s interests, that no entity dare expose the scope and depth of it? And ultimately… is it the preservation of institutions that is causing so many disconnected outcomes from evidence intentionally downplayed? If we assume the scale of unconstitutional conduct has become systemic, that likely answers the questions. Personally, I believe this is the most likely scenario. “Likely” meaning the entire apparatus, DOJ, FBI, Legislative Oversight and the Intelligence Community (IC), is now so enmeshed within this corrupt out-of-control state that no-one, even the good guys, is willing to expose it because the institutional collapse would be devastating. This is what I would call the Biggest of the Big Ugly. This catastrophic outcome, in combination with DC having made the system the primary source of their income, is what unites the Republicans and Democrats to stop anyone from exposing it. Once any elected official goes inside this system, they end up serving it. All of that said, I have previously outlined a pre-election process for President Trump to declassify information that would lay the system naked to We The People. However, I don’t think post-election this will work, because the executive branch cabinet officers will refuse to support it. The enemies inside the gate will protect DC. [OCTOBER 2020] Understanding the ordinary process of declassifying documents is a request and authorization to the executive officers and stakeholders of classified information; and understanding the current authorization is is not ordinary because the intelligence community stakeholders are adverse to the interests of the office of the president; here is a process to cut through the chaff and countermeasures. The background here is that any unilateral declassification request, demand or authorization by President Trump puts him opposition to a variety of corrupt interests. As a direct result the executive office of the president will be facing legal action, likely from unified democrats and republicans in the legislative branch. With that accepted, here is the most strategic approach. In anticipation of litigation: President Trump informs the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, John Ratcliffe, that he wishes to have a full intelligence briefing on the following documents (more may be added), all documents are to be presented without a single redaction: All versions of the Carter Page FISA applications (DOJ) (FBI) (ODNI). All of the Bruce Ohr 302’s filled out by the FBI. (FBI) (ODNI) All of Bruce Ohr’s emails (FBI) (DOJ) (CIA) (ODNI) All relevant documents pertaining to the supportive material within the FISA application. (FBI) (DOJ-NSD ) (DoS) (CIA) (DNI) (NSA) (ODNI); All supportive documents and material provided by Bruce Ohr to the FBI. (FBI) All intelligence documents that were presented to the Gang of Eight in 2016 that pertain to the FISA application used against U.S. person Carter Page; including all intelligence documents that may not have been presented to the FISA Court. (CIA) (FBI) (DOJ) (ODNI) (DoS) (NSA) All unredacted text messages and email content between Lisa Page and Peter Strzok on all devices. (FBI) (DOJ) (DOJ-NSD) (ODNI) The originating CIA “EC” or two-page electronic communication from former FBI Agent Peter Strzok: and all communication between former CIA Director John Brennan and FBI Director James Comey that started Operation Crossfire Hurricane in July 2016. (CIA) (FBI) (ODNI) The full and unredacted April 2017 FISA court 99-page opinion written by Presiding Judge Rosemary Collyer outlining the compliance audit conducted by the NSA in 2016. (NSA) (ODNI) (DOJ) (FBI) (DOJ-NSD) ADD TO THIS – Everything and Anything related to contracts, vendors, services and the intelligence apparatus connected to the 2020 United States election. The President selects a date for this briefing and through direct orders to his chief of staff, Mark Meadows, informs the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, John Ratcliffe, to advise and coordinate with all executive branch lead intelligence officials, who were/are stakeholders in the compartmented intelligence products as described above, of their request be present for the briefing. The White House counsel’s office is not to be informed of the intent or purpose of the meeting; however the Presidents’ White House counsel is requested to attend. Further, all of the compartmented intelligence is to be collectively assembled by the ODNI (Ratcliffe) into one volume of a singular Presidential Daily Briefing (PDB). There are to be eighteen printed copies of the PDB assembled and secured for the briefing, post haste. Additionally, the office of the president personally informs the ODNI (Ratcliffe) of the executives’ request to invite for the briefing each member of the legislative branch Intelligence Community oversight known as the Gang-of-Eight. Immediately after the briefing by the executive level (cabinet) department officials, while remaining in a closed and classified session, the full and comprehensive content of this collective intelligence product will be discussed with the full assembly of the U.S. Legislative Branch Intelligence Oversight known as the Gang of Eight. Therefore, National Security Advisor Robert O’Brien is instructed to coordinate with the ODNI (Ratcliffe) for the attendance of the Gang of Eight: Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Minority leader Kevin McCarthy, HPSCI Chairman Adam Schiff, HPSCI Ranking Member Devin Nunes, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, SSCI Chairman Richard Burr and SSCI Vice-Chair Mark Warner. [Topic “TBD”] In order to facilitate the briefing. Each member of the participating group will be provided with one full printed copy of the material assembled by the ODNI during the briefing. [Each of the participants carries the prerequisite clearances, legal and constitutional authority to engage with the classified document according to their position and status. Only the executive can assemble the product for Go8 review and feedback] At the conclusion of the briefing; and after hearing from, and engagement with, each of the participating members of the executive intelligence offices and duly authorized legislative oversight representatives; and after listening to their opinion as to the subject material discussed; the president announces to the fully assembled leadership of both the Executive branch (cabinet) and Legislative branch (Go8), it is his opinion the National Interests of the United States can best be served with the American people having a full, transparent and honest review of the material assembled and discussed. The President, no-one else, only the President, then collects the printed portfolios as they were distributed to the participants, exits the briefing, and walks directly into the James Brady press briefing room within the White House; handing each of the awaiting twelve members of the national media a copy of the briefing material to be published on behalf of the American people. At exactly the same time as President Trump enters the briefing room, one copy of the assembled portfolio is hand delivered, by President Trump only, to White House communications director Alyssa Farah with instructions to scan and release the content to the public through the White House website. Done. The American people are aware… The system will now turn immediately to destroy Donald J Trump…. …..while we show up en-masse to support him. This entry was posted in 1st Amendment, 4th Amendment, 6th Amendment, Activist Judges, AG Bill Barr, Big Government, Big Stupid Government, Cold Anger, Conspiracy ?, Decepticons, Deep State, Dem Hypocrisy, Dept Of Justice, DHS, Donald Trump, Election 2020, FBI, IG Report Clinton Investigation, IG Report Comey, IG Report FISA Abuse, IG Report McCabe, Legislation, media bias, Notorious Liars, Patriotism, Phase 1, Phase 2, President Trump, Spygate, Spying, THE BIG UGLY, Tripwires, Uncategorized. Bookmark the permalink. ← Trump Campaign Announces Doug Collins as Lead on Georgia Recount Effort… Monday November 9th – Open Thread → 855 Responses to Donald Trump Jr: “Declassify Everything”… ← Older Comments txconservativemomof2 says: November 9, 2020 at 4:20 pm I’m going to say this again – we need HORDES of people reviewing the video of election night coverage looking for instances of vote tally changes like we’ve seen in PA and VA. You KNOW it was happening all over. You don’t notice it if you’re not looking for it. It is tedious, to be sure, but it will direct the fraud investigators for President Trump on where to be looking for the Dominion/Scorecard/Hammer and/or ballot fraud. When you see a candidate lose the exact same amount of votes that the adverse candidate picks up within a matter of minutes (and in some cases seconds), there is no explanation other than vote manipulation. Trying to find evidence on this scale is a massive undertaking. It is almost impossible. But with 10s of 1000s of people helping ferret out where to look we have a MUCH better chance of picking up REAL evidence of fraud. We cannot lose this fight. This is our ONLY chance to do this “civilly” Otherwise, it’s war. Liked by 1 person Reply Melanie Green says: November 9, 2020 at 4:48 pm Thanks for letting me post. Exodus 23:13 And in all things that I have said unto you be circumspect; and make no mention of the name of other gods, neither let it be heard out of thy mouth. Ephesians 5:15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, Mosiah 11:147 And they began again to have peace and to prosper exceedingly in the affairs of the church; walking circumspectly before God; receiving many, and baptizing many. Helaman 5:93 And I would that ye should behold that the more part of them are in the path of their duty, and they do walk circumspectly before God, and they do observe to keep his commandments, and his statutes, and his judgments, according to the Law of Moses. Helaman 5:122 And thus ended, also, the eighty and seventh year of the reign of the Judges, the more part of the people remaining in their pride and wickedness, and the lesser part walking more circumspectly before God. Liked by 1 person Reply Jimmy Jack says: November 9, 2020 at 5:38 pm The institutional collapse is coming anyway. The entire collapse of the republic is coming anyway. That isn’t hyperbole, that is our current reality. Exposure would give us something this work towards rebuilding, some semblance of legitimacy which is a critical pillar of government. Liked by 2 people Reply Кomrade Яetslag says: November 9, 2020 at 6:15 pm Don’t forget all the remaining secret Kennedy assassination documents . . . Liked by 2 people Reply sherryoftexas says: November 9, 2020 at 7:13 pm And Benghazi. We need to know what really happened. Liked by 2 people Reply spangdahlem1 says: November 9, 2020 at 8:49 pm Seth Rich still not released . Liked by 2 people Reply spangdahlem1 says: November 9, 2020 at 8:49 pm Seth Rich still not released . Like Reply mugzey302 says: November 9, 2020 at 7:14 pm Reading the books of the prophets in the Old Testament tells the story of how difficult it is to be the watchman on the wall, warning a people who will not listen/do not care/do not believe. That is America today. As in ancient Israel, even the religious leaders are corrupted, serving other gods, or woefully misled. God knows who His people are, and He will protect them. And there will be those who call out to Him and are told, “I never knew you”. May God bless us with courage and shalom, wisdom, discernment, and revelation. Liked by 3 people Reply botchedcasuality says: November 9, 2020 at 8:13 pm Trump wearing the symbolic yellow vest! I went to a rally at my Capital in Salem Or.( I know awful.) I wore a yellow vest with an explanation on the back That it was a symbol of support and gratitude for those countries fighting government tyranny and its Godfather; Globalism. ESP Hong Kong, and thanked many countries citizens rooting for us/US Not Govt.s. My dog Redford (yes he’s a handsome blond) wore a yellow vest that said ‘Free Gen Flynn’.He was popular. I hoped that the yellow vest thing could become a symbol reactivated that could catch on, I’m wearing it out to the market, gas station and restaurants. Our picture was taken many times, but the photographers were only interested in the guys exercising their 2A rights. Some gawky Antifa showed they were the joke of the day. I wish I could post a photo. God Bless you all. Liked by 2 people Reply Lurker360 says: November 9, 2020 at 8:27 pm If they manage by hook or by crook to steal this, then the declass should be printed up and used to redo the wallpaper at the Whitehouse. Then invite the press to see the remodeling. Really damning pages blown up to 2×3 feet and put at eye level in prominent places. Liked by 1 person Reply terry zelk says: November 9, 2020 at 10:31 pm There is ample evidence of voter fraud on a massive scale, there is ample evidence of Biden family corruption, there is ample evidence of treason by the CIA, FBI, DOJ, there is ample evidence of Clinton’s corruption, but nothing will happen. Barr has done zilch, nada, nothing but talk and investigate. Now he’s going to investigate some voter fraud. He’ll get back to us on that in about 10 years. Like Reply Mike W Trimm says: November 9, 2020 at 10:47 pm He should then say… “Oh, and one more thing. At the conclusion of my term, I will simultaneously be announcing my candidacy for the 2024 Presidency, under the newly formed MAGA Party”. Interested parties could begin their Senate and House campaigns. You can’t investigate your political opponents, right? 70,000,000 people will need a place to go! Like Reply

1 0

GRARPAMP garbage
by professor rat 10 Nov '20

10 Nov '20

Cypherpunks is a discussion list for how public-key-crypto can help enable networked anarchism. Engineers and coding Mavens? - Coderpunks is two clicks over. Which gets me to imbeciles like " Karl ' and " Gramps ". If you don't get anarchism, that's fine. Being an ignorant dumbass is not a crime. But please stop spamming us with your timewasting, gasbagging, paranoid dribbling BULLSHIT. TIA.

1 0

An engineering foundation for supra dimensional perception by humans
by Zenaan Harkness 10 Nov '20

10 Nov '20

We think of the world around us as "3 dimensional". This "dimensionality" is a construct (on an axis of "some degree of" utility) to assist thought, picturing, and/or communication about, our experience of our presumed existence - more accurately, about our experience of experience (we could say "experience of perception" but that posits perception). Back to engineering? Firstly some visual maths, since at heart we are all visual learners :D Mathematically, in our perception we are said to be engaged in a "reducing" or reduction of complexity problem, for which problem in our analog domain of existence, the human organism seems efficiently adapted. For the beginner, start with the problem of reducing a 2 dimesional image, a circle on a sheet of paper, to 1 dimension - i.e. points and segments on a line. (A circle reduces to point(s) whereas a disc reduces to a segment (finite or "short" line) as they "pass through" the "line of perception", respectively.) So imagine ("image within") a piece of paper with a long line on it, and a circle "falling through" that "line of perception" - that is, when any part of the circle is touching the line, it appears as a point when it first touches the line, or as two points as it crosses through the line. Adding the "dimension" of time, and a circle moving with "linear velocity" down our page, the points on the line expand apart, then come back together, finally disappearing as the circle passes completely through the line - those two points in this scenario move apart from one another (and vice versa) on our line of perception with a velocity which would appear as a "sine wave" if graphed. So in this first example we have "reduced 3D to 2D" in this "problem of perceiving a 2D circle, in 1 dimension" i.e. from the point of view of a single dimension (our line of perception). Analogously we can reduce a 3 dimensional object to 2 dimensions, and a canonical example, the sphere "moving through" a piece of paper or "plane of perception". This can of course be extended to a 3 dimensional "volume of perception" and the analogous "4D spheroid" as it moves through the volume of perception appearing as first a tiny but growing sphere, reaches it's "largest perceived" spherical size as observed from the volume of perception, and then similarly reducing and finally disappearing. So that's the geometric ("mathematical") visualization needed as our starting point. Now "engineering". We start with our eye. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye The human eye has a planar (hemispherical or rather concave for practical purposes, but we may set this aside for our purpose of understanding) component called the retina. The retina contains special photosensitive cells which operate (biach i oper ate) as a real time camera ("photographic sensor") "taking pictures of" our 3 dimesional delusion thus down converting "reality" into a "two dimensional image" for easier processing by our brains. The concavity of the retina maximises field of view for a given pixel (photosensitive cell) density. We have 2 eyes, which is handy if we lose or damage one, and also allows the brain to construct a far more accurate "representation of reality" within our minds, since the light ("pixel" intensity, color and location) 'offsets' or deltas, provides the data necessary for depth calculations. Perception is a function of many things (not least e.g. inebriation) including bandwidth, frequency, sesitivity, interference, noise and more - all of which may be applied to the eye as much as to cameras. Next example is the ear - our ears pick up "sound" vibrations. Two ears collect sufficient data for the brain to process out ("reduce") to some degree, the 3 dimensionality of the sound (where it comes from, is it moving in space time?) and our environment (are there objects in my en#vironment reflecting the sound?). The ears are comprised of a spiral form - a sea-shell type cavity increasing the distance over which sound vibrations are sampled within the sound sampling cavity, and also filtering for frequency over that distance, maximising per-Hz sensitivity and spatial information (this description is a bit loose - feel free to try to describe this more accurately). The spiral provides a physical space condensing or reduction of space required for given operating characteristics, and increasing the bandwidth of (at least "possible") frequency sampling. Putting this together, a single iris is inherently planar, reducing a volumetric target of observation to a planar representation for processing and analysis, the ear is a spiral, providing a similar signal data reduction function, although seems to be more like a line than a plane, and when we have two such spatially separated data collection points, the signal processing unit (brain) can deduce 3 dimesionality from the two 2D data sampling/reduction units (or in the case of the ears, quite arguably 1D data sampling/reduction units!). That is we can say: - the down sampling ('reduction of dimensionality') makes the data analysis and signal transmission loads practical, and - the duplication of the (down) sampling unit, at sufficiently disparate locations, allows the data processing unit to reconstruct certain of the higher order (in this case 3) dimensionality So duplication of a 2 dimesional signal sampler, provides for reconstruction (in some form) of a 3 dimensional signal. And so we could argue that triplication (or more) of a 2 dimensional signal sampler could possibly provide for a 4 dimensional reconstruction of sorts. We can use signal analysis physics/ math to determine parameters of dimesionality which might be "in the haystack" of reduced or down-sampled data, and different frequency and energy limits etc ("that's like, vibrations, dood!"). Finally, and here's a kicker, insufficient signal sampling sensitivity may be overcome with sufficient sampling device replication (and also with increased device sensitivity): As the "2D retina photosensitive cells array" is to "3D space" … … so too the "3D helix gene bath of cells in our body" is to "4D supra dimesional space". You are an aerial complex - tune yourself, know thyself, go within.

1 0

I've been talking to USG LEO's
by professor rat 10 Nov '20

10 Nov '20

I've been talking to them every year since 2009. My message is very clear. I want youse to SURRENDER to the internet in the following way. 1) Liberate all the Drug War prisoners - state and federal. 2) Revive the PAM FutureMAP market site from 2003 - that can then handle the defeat-in-detail arrangements. 3) Pissed off at the slow response, I added the following demand a couple of years ago. Use the term " APster ' when you announce these changes. SURRENDER DOROTHY #Denning The American century was over by 2005 and anarchy won. Hasta luego, Uncle Scam.

1 0

Liberation: Is not Innovations in digital government
by grarpamp 10 Nov '20

10 Nov '20

> http://dgsociety.org/dgo-2021/call-for-proposals/ > liberatory ideas > government (or governance) These are mutually exclusive. > governance > anarchic These are mututally exclusive. > Digital Government Research > innovations in digital politics and government Permanent lifelong intergenerational databases of all lives, transactions, words, thoughts, love, DNA, surveillance, spying, lightswitch digital control of the "misinformation" that is your mind and body, censorship, rampant media bias, forced lockdown and inoculation, license logon and permission required for all daily activities including authenticating to your toilet bowl for the morning piss, checkpointed biometric embedded body tags, papers please travel, encryption bans, firearm bans, 6G reporting in realtime, facial gait voice analysis, web bugs, NSA, GovCorp in everything you do, and much much more you despots have yet to dream up, beyond all above which you've already implemented. > models of governance All such in all symposiums on same on this so called "liberation" list in recent years have all been, disgustingly, about how to keep building further structures of enslavement over other harmless humans who've done nothing to you, through forcing yourself and your will over them, ultimately under threat of death. You are guilty. So for remainder of this month, instead of titillating yourselves over yet another such boring and wrong conference... go search, read, and watch... Voluntaryism, Libertarian, peace love and Anarchism, Taxation is Theft, War is Murder, Austrian Economics / Free Markets, Bitcoin documentaries, Anarcho Capitalism, Non Aggression Principle, Natural Law, etc... and yes, even... > crypto-anarchism Anything but yet more forcing yourself over others via non "liberatory ideas" scam of "democracy" and digital govern[ment|nance]. Then come back and talk about what actions of ungovernance need done towards reaching living in an actual state of liberation. Because what's being talked 100:1 on this list has absolutely not been actual liberation, nor even tech, but more politically entrenched systems of GovCorp power and control. That's very bad. For you. And your children. And you know it.

1 0

Re: cypherpunks Digest, Vol 89, Issue 27
by frank mcelligott 10 Nov '20

10 Nov '20

She owes the atlanta hawks..... Richer than Biden -----Original Message----- From: cypherpunks-request(a)lists.cpunks.org Sent: Monday, November 09, 2020 4:03 PM To: cypherpunks(a)lists.cpunks.org Subject: cypherpunks Digest, Vol 89, Issue 27 Send cypherpunks mailing list submissions to cypherpunks(a)lists.cpunks.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.cpunks.org/mailman/listinfo/cypherpunks or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to cypherpunks-request(a)lists.cpunks.org You can reach the person managing the list at cypherpunks-owner(a)lists.cpunks.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of cypherpunks digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: How Do We Escape Computer Controlled Propaganda Flow (Karl) 2. Re: How Do We Escape Computer Controlled Propaganda Flow (\0xDynamite) 3. Re: How Do We Escape Computer Controlled Propaganda Flow (Karl) 4. Re: How Do We Escape Computer Controlled Propaganda Flow (Karl) 5. Re: How Do We Escape Computer Controlled Propaganda Flow (Karl) 6. Re: How Do We Escape Computer Controlled Propaganda Flow (Zenaan Harkness) 7. Re: How Do We Escape Computer Controlled Propaganda Flow (Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2020 17:46:04 -0500 From: Karl <gmkarl(a)gmail.com> To: "Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0" <punks(a)tfwno.gf> Cc: cypherpunks <cypherpunks(a)lists.cpunks.org> Subject: Re: How Do We Escape Computer Controlled Propaganda Flow Message-ID: <CALL-=e5reL+078Qt4DdRjbW7vOp7BtC8tF32afT=rw38GgUs1Q(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 5:33 PM Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 <punks(a)tfwno.gf> wrote: > > On Mon, 9 Nov 2020 15:24:30 -0500 > Karl <gmkarl(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 2:38 PM Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 <punks(a)tfwno.gf> > > wrote: > > > > you need to identify people to make 'votes unalterable' - the > > > very opposite of anonimity. > > > > I see you expressing some of the things you usually express. I don't > > believe your assumption here is true: you can make votes unalterable > > and not identify people. I'm not a cryptographer. > > > even if there's some crypto trick to do something that looks kinda > anonymous, you still have to identify which people are 'authorized' to > vote. Authority being of course the keyword here. In reality voting is a > wholly statist mechanism that takes for granted the 'authority' of the > state or other mafia and the absurd idea that mob majority rule has any > legitimacy at all. Here, realize that voting is a crude analogy for _actual real communication where we make decisions together_ omigod. > > If we want to fix the current political problems it may be a good > idea to first identify them. > > > > > 'underground' network using broadcast radio and NSA hardware? > > > And what would you do with your 'underground' network anyway? Use it > > > to talk to government agents? > > > > > Obviously, the answer is to finally talk with people who aren't > > government agents. > > Yeah, but how do you know who is an agent in an 'underground' and > (hopefully) anonymous network? wasn't my joke funny? my joke was so funny! it was funny because we can't talk about it =( so jokes are the only way =( this is also a half-joke =) > > Anyway, an actually anonymous network may weaken the power of > govcorp somewhat but it's hardly a panacea. And what I was getting at is > that writing programs is pointless if people don't use the programs. So > even if you had a working design for say an anonymous network, it woud > still have to be 'deployed', which is something the users themselves would > have to do. Which in turn requires the users to be aware of various > technical and political issues, et cetera. any mobile app business can relate that it is easy to get people to run a program, and any blockchain developer can tell you that it is easy to get them to keep doing it. random idea from thousands: app #1: "how to have fun sniffing your friends network traffic, seeing and altering their secret conversations. btw pay us $5 if you don't want your friends messages randomly altered to alert that you are watching them, with helpful information on community project app #2" app #2: "cool anonymity network! nobody can see you chat!" ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2020 16:48:26 -0600 From: "\\0xDynamite" <dreamingforward(a)gmail.com> To: Karl <gmkarl(a)gmail.com> Cc: "Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0" <punks(a)tfwno.gf>, CypherPunks <cypherpunks(a)lists.cpunks.org> Subject: Re: How Do We Escape Computer Controlled Propaganda Flow Message-ID: <CAMjeLr_9_nEaHKZkb_xth64e8btxVUgNnHECmf8uaiAdAA2t6A(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hmmm, I'm not sure what curl is supposed to do, when I tried it on http rather than https, I got 301: moved permanently. When I tried known sites like mit.edu, I got a 302: moved permanently. So what should it do? On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 4:04 PM Karl <gmkarl(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 4:41 PM \0xDynamite <dreamingforward(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > It works. But try wiki.hackerspaces.org. > > I don't understand what you mean by `it works`. What do you think of > this terminal snippet? > ``` > $ curl -v https://wiki.hackerspaces.org/ > * About to connect() to wiki.hackerspaces.org port 443 (#0) > * Trying 212.12.52.48... > * Connected to wiki.hackerspaces.org (212.12.52.48) port 443 (#0) > * Initializing NSS with certpath: sql:/etc/pki/nssdb > * CAfile: /etc/pki/tls/certs/ca-bundle.crt > CApath: none > * SSL connection using TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 > * Server certificate: > * subject: CN=wiki.hackspaces.org > * start date: Oct 30 01:00:18 2020 GMT > * expire date: Jan 28 01:00:18 2021 GMT > * common name: wiki.hackspaces.org > * issuer: CN=Let's Encrypt Authority X3,O=Let's Encrypt,C=US > > GET / HTTP/1.1 > > User-Agent: curl/7.29.0 > > Host: wiki.hackerspaces.org > > Accept: */* > > > < HTTP/1.1 504 Gateway Time-out > < Server: nginx > < Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2020 22:03:40 GMT > < Content-Type: text/html > < Content-Length: 160 > < Connection: keep-alive > < > <html> > <head><title>504 Gateway Time-out</title></head> > <body> > <center><h1>504 Gateway Time-out</h1></center> > <hr><center>nginx</center> > </body> > </html> > * Connection #0 to host wiki.hackerspaces.org left intact > ``` > > > > > On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 2:50 PM Karl <gmkarl(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 3:22 PM \0xDynamite <dreamingforward(a)gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > So which do you prefer: accountability or anonymity? The power > > > > > > goes > > > > > > both ways. Pick one. > > > > > > > > > > This is the cypherpunks mailing list? Weren't cypherpunks > > > > > advocates of anonimity or something? > > > > > > > > Geez man, can't you pick up on it when someone's trying to teach you > > > > something? > > > > > > > > Anonymity and accountability are two contrary aims. If you want > > > > one, > > > > you don't get the other. Get it? > > > > > > > > > > > but all those things are controlled by political > > > > > > > power. 'information flow' is controlled by US corporations at > > > > > > > a global scale for instance. > > > > > > > > > > > > No these things are not just controlled by political power. > > > > > > > > > > I mean, abstract mathematics is obviously NOT controlled > > > > > by political power, but all the infrastructure clearly is. > > > > > > > > No, contrary to your anarcho-punk philosophy, all power is not held > > > > in > > > > politics. Much of the hardware is controlled by base economic > > > > forces > > > > of simply wanting to get money. Snowden is a sheep in whistleblower > > > > clothing -- his "knowledge" of seekrit powers in tech devices is > > > > bullshit. There are also social forces driving things. > > > > Unfortunately > > > > the powers that run the world are at level 100 or so, while the > > > > people > > > > are generally at LVL 20 or less, so they get mystified, used, > > > > confused, and paranoid. You've fallen under it because you don't > > > > have mastery of the tech. That's all. Get a degree and become a > > > > real > > > > expert or learn by yourself by following paths online, like the one > > > > I > > > > put on hackerspaces.org (OneTruePath). OR, get this, simply be > > > > > > 504 Gateway Error over here, and not on archive.org . > > > > > > > respectful to other people who HAVE done this work and learn > > > > something > > > > from THEM. > > > > > > > > Until then, you're just a loudmouth. > > > > > > > > > Point being, cryptography by itself will get you nowhere, > > > > > AND cryptography is a pretty toxic tool in the hands of the > > > > > political powers that control its practical application. > > > > > > > > Cryptography by itself *has* gotten us nowhere, because nothing we > > > > REALLY wanted to do required going against the law. And what is it > > > > that we REALLY want to do? (hmm, free society, creative culture, > > > > radical love, ....) > > > > > > > > \0xD ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2020 17:50:51 -0500 From: Karl <gmkarl(a)gmail.com> To: "\\0xDynamite" <dreamingforward(a)gmail.com> Cc: "Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0" <punks(a)tfwno.gf>, CypherPunks <cypherpunks(a)lists.cpunks.org> Subject: Re: How Do We Escape Computer Controlled Propaganda Flow Message-ID: <CALL-=e4W52enCszRgVpQCndVS_KwBJzLraDQdw8kAEMYa5vcNg(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 5:37 PM \0xDynamite <dreamingforward(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Really? I know how to find philes I want -- if I need them. Do you? > > > > what files are you talking about? the_bible.pdf? > > Lolz, that one's legal to copy, for the most part. Why did you make a > personal attack? Are you unable to use reason alone? personal attacks is how punk-stasi is most free to communicate. i don't believe they are meant personally. > > > > > This is the cypherpunks mailing list? Weren't cypherpunks > > > > advocates of anonimity or something? > > > > > > Geez man, can't you pick up on it when someone's trying to teach you > > > something? > > > > > > Anonymity and accountability are two contrary aims. If you want one, > > > you don't get the other. Get it? > > > > dude. What do you think you're teaching me, exactly? *I* pointed > > out *first* that 'accountable' voting and anonimity are at odds. Learn 2 > > read. > > Regardless of your anarchist philosophy, you seek leaders. Perhaps > because deep in your DNA you know these questions were already > answered. So, if you have leaders, you'll want accountability. you can even have accountability without leaders! re: anonymity: for example we could reduce the network time allocated to behaviors that result in harm to a consensus algorithm, challenging people who desire to transmit such traffic, to support efforts to improve that algorithm in some way. > > > > No, contrary to your anarcho-punk philosophy, all power is not held in > > > politics. Much of the hardware is controlled by base economic forces > > > of simply wanting to get money. > > > > all of the hardware is manufactured by corporations that are > > just arms of the government. So like I said, at the root there's only > > political power. > > Corps are not just arms of the government, unless you want to talk > about octopus-type arms of the all-seeing-eye. In the octopus, each > arm is an individual and acts separately, but they share at least some > common desire or core. It could be survival in the case of America, > at this point. to add some third viewpoint, some people describe strong coercive power as 'the real government' > > > > Snowden is a sheep in whistleblower clothing -- his "knowledge" of > > > seekrit powers in tech devices is bullshit. > > > > not sure how snowden got into the picture? Oh sorry yeah. You're > > ranting. > > You're not sure. That's a good start. > > > > You've fallen under it because you don't have mastery of the tech. > > > > wut > > The response of the nubile who's been caught, wanting to know how I > can know something that you never revealed. > > > > Get a degree and become a real expert or learn by yourself by > > > following paths online > > > > what do you want me to learn, exactly? > > Some real computer science, or at least some programming, maybe math. > > > > simply be respectful to other people who HAVE done this work > > > > LMAO! What 'work' are you talking about > > Mastering the tech that you say is controlled by governments, duh. > > > > Until then, you're just a loudmouth. > > > > a jew-fascist like you shouldn't badmouth his betters. Your > > knowledge of political philosophy is a lot worse than non-existent. Your > > knowledge of 'tech' is prolly just as bad. > > You're just being a loudmouth. Either have some real Truth, skills, > or try somewhere else than cypherpunks to get relevance. > > > > Cryptography by itself *has* gotten us nowhere, because nothing we > > > REALLY wanted to do required going against the law. > > > > what 'law' are you talking about here? > > > > > And what is it that we REALLY want to do? (hmm, free society, > > > creative culture, > > > radical love) > > > > those things are obviously against all government laws. So which > > law is this law you mentioned? > > Tell me, punk, is the law more powerful than Man? > > Marxos ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2020 17:52:01 -0500 From: Karl <gmkarl(a)gmail.com> To: "\\0xDynamite" <dreamingforward(a)gmail.com> Cc: "Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0" <punks(a)tfwno.gf>, CypherPunks <cypherpunks(a)lists.cpunks.org> Subject: Re: How Do We Escape Computer Controlled Propaganda Flow Message-ID: <CALL-=e46OBC2JsihzrkXPMjUnjdjvkndxY7rgeQCPU9xnQtvLw(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 5:41 PM \0xDynamite <dreamingforward(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > So which do you prefer: accountability or anonymity? The power > > > > > goes > > > > > both ways. Pick one. > > > > > > > > This is the cypherpunks mailing list? Weren't cypherpunks > > > > advocates of anonimity or something? > > > > > > Geez man, can't you pick up on it when someone's trying to teach you > > > something? > > > > > > Anonymity and accountability are two contrary aims. If you want one, > > > you don't get the other. Get it? > > > > We were mind controlled to take over the world, but we have learned to > > resist. > > > > Aims, like anonymity and accountability, are not contrary. They all > > can be accomplished together. > > You're probably talking about the election and the voting process. I > was speaking generally. The only law is time, who holds no sides. > > Casting aims as contrary was a way to reduce the power of the masses. > > You're right. In theory you could achieve both with a second layer, a > layer of indirection. Asking for ID to get into the voting booth, > which just has to keep track that you haven't voted already and > separate the act of voting, which can be anonymized by concealed > ballots. > > \0xD ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2020 17:56:52 -0500 From: Karl <gmkarl(a)gmail.com> To: "\\0xDynamite" <dreamingforward(a)gmail.com> Cc: "Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0" <punks(a)tfwno.gf>, CypherPunks <cypherpunks(a)lists.cpunks.org> Subject: Re: How Do We Escape Computer Controlled Propaganda Flow Message-ID: <CALL-=e6XMC_mbMVpfjJQ+_75oGxPBA0QD8LeDi71_1VDic7MnA(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Curl performs an HTTP request, like a web browser does as the first thing when you visit a website. I didn't know you were unfamiliar with curl or I wouldn't have pasted the output to you. The output includes details that would help the administrator of wiki.hackerspaces.org relate around the issue I experience. But if you can paste your output, it would help me understand what is going on, myself, and others on the list too if they have interest. 301 and 302 mean the url is forwarding you somewhere else. It should say where else it is forwarding you to, notably in the `Location: ` header if you pass `-v`. Pass `-L` to automatically follow those redirects. On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 5:48 PM \0xDynamite <dreamingforward(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hmmm, I'm not sure what curl is supposed to do, when I tried it on > http rather than https, I got 301: moved permanently. > > When I tried known sites like mit.edu, I got a 302: moved permanently. > > So what should it do? > > On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 4:04 PM Karl <gmkarl(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 4:41 PM \0xDynamite <dreamingforward(a)gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > It works. But try wiki.hackerspaces.org. > > > > I don't understand what you mean by `it works`. What do you think of > > this terminal snippet? > > ``` > > $ curl -v https://wiki.hackerspaces.org/ > > * About to connect() to wiki.hackerspaces.org port 443 (#0) > > * Trying 212.12.52.48... > > * Connected to wiki.hackerspaces.org (212.12.52.48) port 443 (#0) > > * Initializing NSS with certpath: sql:/etc/pki/nssdb > > * CAfile: /etc/pki/tls/certs/ca-bundle.crt > > CApath: none > > * SSL connection using TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 > > * Server certificate: > > * subject: CN=wiki.hackspaces.org > > * start date: Oct 30 01:00:18 2020 GMT > > * expire date: Jan 28 01:00:18 2021 GMT > > * common name: wiki.hackspaces.org > > * issuer: CN=Let's Encrypt Authority X3,O=Let's Encrypt,C=US > > > GET / HTTP/1.1 > > > User-Agent: curl/7.29.0 > > > Host: wiki.hackerspaces.org > > > Accept: */* > > > > > < HTTP/1.1 504 Gateway Time-out > > < Server: nginx > > < Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2020 22:03:40 GMT > > < Content-Type: text/html > > < Content-Length: 160 > > < Connection: keep-alive > > < > > <html> > > <head><title>504 Gateway Time-out</title></head> > > <body> > > <center><h1>504 Gateway Time-out</h1></center> > > <hr><center>nginx</center> > > </body> > > </html> > > * Connection #0 to host wiki.hackerspaces.org left intact > > ``` > > > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 2:50 PM Karl <gmkarl(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 3:22 PM \0xDynamite > > > > <dreamingforward(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > So which do you prefer: accountability or anonymity? The > > > > > > > power goes > > > > > > > both ways. Pick one. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is the cypherpunks mailing list? Weren't > > > > > > cypherpunks advocates of anonimity or something? > > > > > > > > > > Geez man, can't you pick up on it when someone's trying to teach > > > > > you something? > > > > > > > > > > Anonymity and accountability are two contrary aims. If you want > > > > > one, > > > > > you don't get the other. Get it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > but all those things are controlled by political > > > > > > > > power. 'information flow' is controlled by US corporations > > > > > > > > at a global scale for instance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No these things are not just controlled by political power. > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, abstract mathematics is obviously NOT controlled > > > > > > by political power, but all the infrastructure clearly is. > > > > > > > > > > No, contrary to your anarcho-punk philosophy, all power is not > > > > > held in > > > > > politics. Much of the hardware is controlled by base economic > > > > > forces > > > > > of simply wanting to get money. Snowden is a sheep in > > > > > whistleblower > > > > > clothing -- his "knowledge" of seekrit powers in tech devices is > > > > > bullshit. There are also social forces driving things. > > > > > Unfortunately > > > > > the powers that run the world are at level 100 or so, while the > > > > > people > > > > > are generally at LVL 20 or less, so they get mystified, used, > > > > > confused, and paranoid. You've fallen under it because you don't > > > > > have mastery of the tech. That's all. Get a degree and become a > > > > > real > > > > > expert or learn by yourself by following paths online, like the > > > > > one I > > > > > put on hackerspaces.org (OneTruePath). OR, get this, simply be > > > > > > > > 504 Gateway Error over here, and not on archive.org . > > > > > > > > > respectful to other people who HAVE done this work and learn > > > > > something > > > > > from THEM. > > > > > > > > > > Until then, you're just a loudmouth. > > > > > > > > > > > Point being, cryptography by itself will get you > > > > > > nowhere, AND cryptography is a pretty toxic tool in the hands of > > > > > > the political powers that control its practical application. > > > > > > > > > > Cryptography by itself *has* gotten us nowhere, because nothing we > > > > > REALLY wanted to do required going against the law. And what is > > > > > it > > > > > that we REALLY want to do? (hmm, free society, creative culture, > > > > > radical love, ....) > > > > > > > > > > \0xD ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2020 09:58:31 +1100 From: Zenaan Harkness <zen(a)freedbms.net> To: cypherpunks(a)lists.cpunks.org Subject: Re: How Do We Escape Computer Controlled Propaganda Flow Message-ID: <20201109225831.GB1391165(a)eye.freedbms.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Mon, Nov 09, 2020 at 01:59:51PM -0500, Karl wrote: > On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 1:40 PM Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 <punks(a)tfwno.gf> > wrote: > > On Mon, 9 Nov 2020 05:52:02 -0500 > > Karl <gmkarl(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > Many of us have ways to make the world right, > > > but so long as our actions can be predicted, it doesn't seem easy to > > > pursue them, and pursuing them may have consequences. > > > > > > I don't think prediction is the problem but numbers. If enough > > people want to burn down amazon and google, the 'prediction' won't stop > > them. > > > > > > > > > Does anyone have advice on what software developers can do during this > > > time, to help the situation? > > > > how can computer programers fix a political problem? > > I stand by blockchain technologies that prevent the isolation of > communities and provide immutable public records. Cryptography can > make votes unalterable, Cryptography unfortunately can't stop the dead from voting. > dialogue unhidable. Math could show clear > statistics of what influences behavior and information flow, and for > whom. > > But computer programers share with you the malady that problems are > for 'fixing'. > > > > > > > > > Personally, I have no idea how to communicate with people who refuse > > > to harm anyone, to work on solutions with them. > > ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2020 20:03:21 -0300 From: "Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0" <punks(a)tfwno.gf> To: <cypherpunks(a)lists.cpunks.org> Subject: Re: How Do We Escape Computer Controlled Propaganda Flow Message-ID: <20201109230357.324F411C036D(a)pglaf.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 9 Nov 2020 16:36:14 -0600 "\\0xDynamite" <dreamingforward(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > Really? I know how to find philes I want -- if I need them. Do you? > > > > what files are you talking about? the_bible.pdf? > > Lolz, that one's legal to copy, 'legal' according to whom? Oh yeah 'legal' according to your government masters. > for the most part. Why did you make a > personal attack? Are you unable to use reason alone? I can pretty well call you an idiot while shredding to pieces your nonsense. The 'personal attack' is just a side note, snowflake. Not to mention where is the personal attack, anyway? You are an evil theocratic nutcase. > > > > > This is the cypherpunks mailing list? Weren't cypherpunks > > > > advocates of anonimity or something? > > > > > > Geez man, can't you pick up on it when someone's trying to teach you > > > something? > > > > > > Anonymity and accountability are two contrary aims. If you want one, > > > you don't get the other. Get it? > > > > dude. What do you think you're teaching me, exactly? *I* pointed > > out *first* that 'accountable' voting and anonimity are at odds. Learn 2 > > read. > > Regardless of your anarchist philosophy, you seek leaders. What the fuck are you taking about, son. Oh, you're changing the subject after realizing that you were 'teaching' me the very same thing *I* mentioned first. > Perhaps > because deep in your DNA you know these questions were already > answered. So, if you have leaders, you'll want accountability. what - the fuck - are you talking about. I know that the problem is the cowardly fucktards like you, your bible and your 'leaders', and I don't 'want leaders'. > > > No, contrary to your anarcho-punk philosophy, all power is not held in > > > politics. Much of the hardware is controlled by base economic forces > > > of simply wanting to get money. > > > > all of the hardware is manufactured by corporations that are > > just arms of the government. So like I said, at the root there's only > > political power. > > Corps are not just arms of the government, of course they are. > unless you want to talk about octopus-type arms of the all-seeing-eye. In > the octopus, each > arm is an individual and acts separately, but they share at least some > common desire or core. It could be survival in the case of America, > at this point. lawl. Are you drunk? Or is that your 'religious' insanity showing again? > > > > Snowden is a sheep in whistleblower clothing -- his "knowledge" of > > > seekrit powers in tech devices is bullshit. > > > > not sure how snowden got into the picture? Oh sorry yeah. You're > > ranting. > > You're not sure. That's a good start. I was mocking you. "I'm not sure" meant "what the fuck has snowden got to do with anything". > > > > You've fallen under it because you don't have mastery of the tech. > > > > wut > > The response of the nubile who's been caught, wanting to know how I > can know something that you never revealed. WUT - "wut" means what-are-you-talking-about - again. So far you've shown you don't know what you're talking about. As always. So I'm anything but a 'surprised nubile'. > > > > Get a degree and become a real expert or learn by yourself by > > > following paths online > > > > what do you want me to learn, exactly? > > Some real computer science, or at least some programming, maybe math. I know c++, python and assembler among other languages. Is that enough? Oh wait, knowing how to program computers has fuck to do with any real solution to political problems, go figure. > > > > simply be respectful to other people who HAVE done this work > > > > LMAO! What 'work' are you talking about > > Mastering the tech that you say is controlled by governments, duh. OK, you are just another government agent parroting the lie that fucktards are 'free' because they (you) made a website with more government propaganda and know how to 'program' some javashit malware. > > > Until then, you're just a loudmouth. > > > > a jew-fascist like you shouldn't badmouth his betters. Your > > knowledge of political philosophy is a lot worse than non-existent. Your > > knowledge of 'tech' is prolly just as bad. > > You're just being a loudmouth. Either have some real Truth, skills, > or try somewhere else than cypherpunks to get relevance. uh oh. I think calling out governmetn assholes like you is a relevant thing for 'cypherpunks'. > > > > Cryptography by itself *has* gotten us nowhere, because nothing we > > > REALLY wanted to do required going against the law. > > > > what 'law' are you talking about here? > > > > > And what is it that we REALLY want to do? (hmm, free society, > > > creative culture, > > > radical love) > > > > those things are obviously against all government laws. So which > > law is this law you mentioned? > > Tell me, punk, is the law more powerful than Man? again, what nonsense are you babbling. Answer what law were you talking about. You can't answer because you can't even keep track of your ignorant, fascist rants. Instead of 'learning' how to 'program' a stupid ARPANET WEBSITE you should go to the library and learn political philosophy, for starters. > > Marxos ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ cypherpunks mailing list cypherpunks(a)lists.cpunks.org https://lists.cpunks.org/mailman/listinfo/cypherpunks ------------------------------ End of cypherpunks Digest, Vol 89, Issue 27 *******************************************

2 1