May 2023 - cypherpunks - lists.cpunks.org

Goldman Owes Women Much More Than $215 Million
by Gunnar Larson 12 May '23

12 May '23

Goldman Owes Women Much More Than $215 Million https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2023-05-09/goldman-owes-women-mu…

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The Silk Road Investigation: A 'Pattern of Bad Behavior and Double Agents' – Bitcoin News
by professor rat 11 May '23

11 May '23

Ross Ulbricht's bad behavior and double-talk condemns him to death from his own mouth. Its perfectly clear by now this depraved criminal was passing himself off as a peaceful agorist while also hiring hitmen online. These killers were then also cleared to take-out any civilians that got in the way - innocent civilian bystanders - flatmates of the target. I have no argument against online drug marts OR hiring killers online. Its the grotesque dishonest hypocrisy of all his preening, posing and posturing as pacifist that fucking annoys me. TSTBALAA! And VERY ASSANGE!

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[crazy] innovation was: [ot][spam] ai-guided 3d printing
by Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many 11 May '23

11 May '23

hi On 4/22/23, Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many <gmkarl(a)gmail.com> wrote: > simple 3d printer ideas that surprisingly may stimulate inhibition in > me for innovation: > > - you could possibly extrude in a pattern such that the filament > doesn’t bind to the layer below it, making support that vacuums or > blows away with an arbitrary extruder and filament. expecting this to > be slower from waiting for the filament to harden before letting it > come in contact with the layer below. > > could be existing paper or software on trying something like it > somewhere, but maybe not since it addresses low-end devices i so much appreciate the support. i experience it as small compared to the issues. i was thinking of doing a roleplay in mcboss, but this is what came out at the moment. regarding the above idea, i might share or consider that a lot of people would appreciate it, it could also help corporations save money, as well as make fabrication more accessible to independent hobbyists.

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Mayor Adams to Receive First Paycheck in Cryptocurrency | City of New York
by Gunnar Larson 11 May '23

11 May '23

Our Coinbase FOIL records are still delayed. Seems suspicious. Makes xNY.io look even more interesting and impressive given the $100M compliance deal... ---- https://www.nyc.gov/office-of-the-mayor/news/041-22/mayor-adams-receive-fir… Mayor Adams to Receive First Paycheck in Cryptocurrency January 20, 2022 Paycheck to Be Automatically Converted Into Bitcoin and Ethereum NEW YORK – New York City Mayor Eric Adams today announced that his first paycheck — which arrives tomorrow — will be automatically converted into cryptocurrency, as previously promised. The salary will be converted to Ethereum and Bitcoin. “New York is the center of the world, and we want it to be the center of cryptocurrency and other financial innovations,” said Mayor Adams. “Being on the forefront of such innovation will help us create jobs, improve our economy, and continue to be a magnet for talent from all over the globe.” “From being the primary means by which we close both the digital and financial divide, technology continues to be the great equalizer, said New York City Chief Technology Officer Matt Fraser. “This step taken by the mayor provides a leading example of how we can empower people through tech with a more diverse set of options to manage their finances.” Before funds are made available, Mayor Adams’ first paycheck will automatically be converted into cryptocurrency via Coinbase, a secure online platform for buying, selling, transferring, and storing digital currency. Last November, Mayor Adams announced he would accept his first three paychecks in cryptocurrency. Due to U.S. Department of Labor regulations, New York City cannot pay employees in cryptocurrency. By using a cryptocurrency exchange, anyone paid in U.S. dollars can have funds converted into cryptocurrency before funds are deposited into their account. Cryptocurrencies are at the forefront of Web3innovations and can bring greater accessibility to financial services.

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Don't trust - verify
by professor rat 11 May '23

11 May '23

Or, Don’t trust - authenticate with post-quantum crypto and zero-knowledge-proofs where necessary? https://subconscious.substack.com/p/trustless-protocols-are-better-than?utm… Reposts not brain-dead morons like Karl Semich and Grarpamps

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[ot] codechat huggingface tutorial
by Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many 11 May '23

11 May '23

https://huggingface.co/blog/starchat-alpha mainstream local chat model oriented around software development there’s also recent energy in the media i’m exposed to around free assistive technology

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Marxists against logic, learning and intelligence
by professor rat 11 May '23

11 May '23

Proletarian identity-polices ( aka Marxist-Communism ) the worst form of fascism for the last 104 years #ChekaMate ’ . . . witnessing the new blockchain, crypto, virtual reality, internet of things, autonomous vehicles, social media …, web browser, … All of these marvelous innovations and things just keep getting worse for the working class. . . ." https://groups.io/g/marxmail/topic/the_disappearing_computer/98808403?p=,,,… IF a boatload of dirt-cheap self-help tools and regular civil-wars in the ruling class are bad then maybe your chosen people will never be the master race. Die Marxist, die.

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Cryptocurrency: 2009-05-08 /r/Business
by grarpamp 11 May '23

11 May '23

Bitcoin: A peer-to-peer network based anonymous digital currency. bitcoin.sourceforge.net submitted 14 years ago by [deleted]2 246 comments share save hide report all 246 comments sorted by: best topnewcontroversialoldrandomq&alive (beta) Want to add to the discussion? Post a comment! Create an account [–]ef4 13 points14 points15 points 14 years ago*2 (44 children) The cryptography to support this has existed for a long time. The harder part is designing a system with economic incentives that work. No currency can jump directly into being a pure medium of exchange. Historically, whenever money arises it starts out as something that's useful/valuable on its own, irrespective of whether you'll be able to trade it for something else. It is only later when many people have it and want it that the trade-value becomes more significant than the use-value. Once enough people are used to the idea, you can even let the use-value go to zero, as in our modern fiat currencies. So to start a digital currency, you either need to make it have some use other than directly spending it, or you need to back it with an existing currency. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Quicksilver 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (24 children) ....Assuming you believe our modern currencies are a good model and just copying them is the solution. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]cedartrail 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago (18 children) I feel the need to upvote this even though it’s 12 years later. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Quicksilver 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago (11 children) Wow. Wow in that I put this here 12 years ago and yet didn't have the sense to buy bitcoin until MUCH later. I wouldn't have even guessed I had commented back then. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]cedartrail 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago (4 children) Pretty wild eh, 12 years can change a lot. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Quicksilver 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago (3 children) Just ask a 13 year old. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Future_PeterSchiff 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago* (2 children) Pinging 13 years old me 17 years ago, okay you little shit, in 4 years there will be this thing called Bitcoin, I know it sounds like a scam but buy as much of the fucking thing as you can. There will be a website where for 1 dollar through a PayPal portal you can get more than a thousand of these things. You’ll be working as a lifeguard at the time spending all your money on weed, I’m not saying to quite weed but cut back and buy as many of the damn coins than you can. Don’t let me down young me permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]AdActive9457 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago (1 child) 13 smoking weed 😭😭😭 permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Future_PeterSchiff 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago (0 children) Smoking weed at 17, maybe I shouldn’t have told 13 year old me we’d be smoking weed at 17. Probably why he forgot to buy the damn coins when they were 2,615 coins per dollar -_- permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]PlaaXer 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (1 child) nah please tell me you are rich rn, otherwise the world is not fair permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Quicksilver 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (0 children) Depends how you define it I guess. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Morning_Star_Ritual 0 points1 point2 points 11 months ago (2 children) I am in a similar boat. I even lurked around the sub…read a few articles. Someone mentioned needing btc on the SR sub and I noped the fuck out. “Why do I need to use some scam fake internet money to get some kush?” Lol. But, we eventually “got it.” Think of all the people who still think it’s all a scam. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]followedbyferrets 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (1 child) I can’t believe I never even investigated it. As someone that used to torrent a lot, you’d think the p2p think would have at least merited some basic research on my part. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Morning_Star_Ritual 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) I’m back fellow Time Traveler! Shit got crazy with Reddit NFT avatars today and I linked this post for a new person to Reddit. Now I’m hunting for my old post where I said hi to another Senses owner…back when selling a Senses for $200 was insane. Only July, already feels years ago… permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]ultra_annoymnuos 0 points1 point2 points 7 months ago (0 children) Don't stress about it paul krugman still hates it and calls it a complete failure... 😅 permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Morning_Star_Ritual 0 points1 point2 points 11 months ago (4 children) Same. Hello fellow time traveler! permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]crodbtc 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (3 children) Fellow Cone. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Morning_Star_Ritual 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) I keep hearing about these cones… permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Morning_Star_Ritual 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (1 child) Cones will one day be the “bought Bitcoin back in 2010/11. Cone Mother moves across the entire space time continuum. Cone Mother was there when Hal—-I mean Satoshi mined the first block. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]crodbtc 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) 🤝🙏 permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Morning_Star_Ritual 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) I feel OP should have bought a cone. But that’s me. Hello fellow Time Traveler! I wonder how many more will one day end up in this thread? permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]evilbunny 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (1 child) The idea of having some use other than directly spending it is that differentiates good currencies from modern currencies. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]cemasoniv 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) Yes, that's true, but it's not always directly usable. I.e., paper money with a honest-to-god backing by said usable substance is Just As Good. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Flying_Koeksister 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (0 children) Definitely an underated comment. :) must be nice to see you were indeed right permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]cosmicaltoaster 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (1 child) Tis I, cosmicaltoaster, traveller of times. What realm is this?! permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Morning_Star_Ritual 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) This is the Madness realm where a cute golden avatar sold for a downpayment on a house. Top? Who knows, been thinking Top since august. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]irfiisme 4 points5 points6 points 1 year ago (10 children) I am from 13 years in the future and Bitcoin is $69k now. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]mogglar84 1 point2 points3 points 11 months ago (9 children) 30k now, haha XD permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Morning_Star_Ritual 1 point2 points3 points 11 months ago (5 children) We are probably going to kiss the blade down at the 200wma. Let’s see if another time traveler will post if that happens…. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]abarone93 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (3 children) oh hi permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Morning_Star_Ritual 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (2 children) Hello! Are there flying cars? permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Ok_Play_7144 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (1 child) They're called helicopters! permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Morning_Star_Ritual 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) Yay! permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]head77 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) 18K permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]diarpiiiii 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) 19k now permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Jeezy_7_3 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) 19k now I’m 2022 😂 permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]dodgeydom 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago (3 children) Hey, did you buy any BTC back then? permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]DrRobertBottle 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago (0 children) Back then it was much easier to mine than to buy. There weren't any exchanges, etc. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]ECore 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) One way was zip zap service at walmart. Sort of like western union. You gave the customer service person the money and they sent it and in about an hour you had Bitcoin. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]crodbtc 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) Cash in mail to Cryptsy exchange. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Dr-WalterWhite 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (0 children) Please tell me you bought some permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Flying_Koeksister 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (0 children) 12 years later. Things definitely seemed to have changed permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (1 child) Did you ever end up mining/buying bitcoin? permalink embed save parent report reply [–]MAD-1-BILL 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) Bruh op came back 12 years later. I hope you are filthy rich bro. I'd delete my account too😅 permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Snoww 9 points10 points11 points 14 years ago (2 children) Holy cow! Seems awesomely creative. But I sure do wonder about security and whether the idea will catch on. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]DaBestWriter 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago (1 child) Did you buy any bitcoin? permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Future_PeterSchiff 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago* (0 children) I am Peter Schiff from the year 2042, Bitcoin is over a ₿illion dollars per coin in my day, but a billion in my day only has the purchasing power of 100 million in your day. If someone can access Peter Schiff in your time, please tell me I’m a fucking moron, and someone please convince my hard headed ass to drop gold and buy Bitcoin. Idk how you’ll get me to be convinced in your time, but for the love of god someone please figure out away to do it 😭 permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]spoot 19 points20 points21 points 14 years ago (8 children) This is a pretty awesome idea. Though I'm sure the government will love anonymous, non-taxable transactions over the internet. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Ok_Analysis_1304 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago (2 children) MONERO holds this honor now. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Future_PeterSchiff 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) And Litecoin too permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (0 children) Botnet creators will love it even more. permalink embed save parent report reply [–]zaazo 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (0 children) It really is! I wonder if it will go big in the future. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]simplelifestyle 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) Did you buy any just in case? permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]CandyCanePapa 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago (0 children) Long live Monero! permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]carac 6 points7 points8 points 14 years ago* (7 children) It SOUNDS like a good idea, but I would not trust it until a few different people/groups really qualified in terms of encryption and security will actually review the algorithms ... and the source code :) permalink embed save report give award reply [–]elvislunchbox 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago (5 children) Revisit in 12 years. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Omega3568 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago (2 children) I wish I could send a message back in time to myself. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Future_PeterSchiff 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago* (1 child) Try to connect to yourself when you were blackout drunk. If you’re lucky, maybe you’ll convince them to buy you some coins and then you can find them on an old computer. This is the only way, but of course then you’ll be trying to buy them while you’re drunk off your ass and the words on your computer will be hard to read permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Omega3568 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) Maybe permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]ECore 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (1 child) Remind me! 12 years permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]YaZEUS 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) Remind me! 5 years permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]yofingers 5 points6 points7 points 1 year ago (8 children) So did everyone on here hold on? permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Morning_Star_Ritual 4 points5 points6 points 11 months ago (2 children) What I realize now is many of these accounts are abandoned. I forgot my username from my first account. It’s only a year older then this one, but I still wish I could remember the password. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]LacticFactory 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (1 child) (Historical) Cone permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Morning_Star_Ritual 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) Cone! permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago (4 children) I mined btc out of curiosity in 2012 when I was just 17 years old but I was too young to understand what I was doing… lesson learnt, never be lazy, be curious and learn till the finish line. permalink embed save parent report reply [–]abarone93 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (3 children) What happened to your bitcoins? permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]looneytones8 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (1 child) Most likely lost the keys permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]TexasBoyz-713 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) …in a boating accident permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]ECore 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) Nobody could have held past a 10x unless it was an accident. It was too volatile and it was hard to cash out...a lot of people bought gold and silver off of... coinbull? There were no stable coins and it was difficult to trade for cash without getting ripped off...I lost around 30 Bitcoin off a PayPal charge back scam permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Resilience 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (1 child) The main problem with this project is the initial injection I guess. The only people who will dare to sell things for bitcoins will be selling things that they don't deem "real money" worth. Like freewares and opensource software or print promotion... Then it will start with a HUGE inflation term. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]whoredwhat 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago (0 children) Lol, I think you meant Heroin and cocaine. Hindsight is 20/20 permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]themusicgod1 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago* (2 children) ripple discussion on the matter. (For a working ripple node, try here) permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Liarus_ 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (1 child) Damn, ripple was already there so early permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]soundingdemo 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) Wow! permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]zarbeto 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (5 children) Pretty interesting. Maybe in a couple of years and after several deep changes maybe Google could be interested. permalink embed save report give award reply [–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago (0 children) Good prediction permalink embed save parent report reply [–]looneytones8 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (1 child) And after 13 years they just made a deal with Coinbase to accept it as payment for cloud services. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Crocodile900 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago (0 children) What the hell is Coinbase? Sent from 13 years ago..... permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]parishiIt0n 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) Insight was 20/22 permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]spoot 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago* (5 children) What they really need to do to get this to take off is to have some central authority that is willing to exchange bit coins for dollars and vice versa. What I would do (if I had a chunk of money and wanted this to take off) is seed the system with some money. For a limited time every unique new user gets $10 of bitcoins under the condition that they have to spend them and can't just turn them in immediately. Then allow anyone to purchase more bitcoins from me at $1 per coin, or turn in their coins for the $1 back. If the system took off, I would have a bunch of real dollars in a bank account earning me interest (and available to return if necessary). If it failed and every person just cashed in their bitcoins and never bought any more I would only be out the limited $10 seed money. Edit: I know this is pretty much exactly what banks do now. But the advantage is that people get to spend their money anonymously, which I think is the point of the whole system. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]whoredwhat 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago (1 child) Do you own an exchange now? permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Appropriate_Joke_741 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (0 children) So interesting reading these comments. Some ideas that if they’d run with them could have made them billionaires permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]WarGawd 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) Pretty visionary of you. And I see you're still active.. you need to come back and see this comment you made so long ago. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Jeezy_7_3 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (1 child) This is wild. This guys thinking way ahead of it it’s time. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]snoringrain 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) Yeah so cool to read permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Nehkrosis 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago (4 children) This is hilarious. I wonder if anyone here from 12 years back even has their reddit accounts still active? permalink embed save report give award reply [–]InternationalTea9203 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (0 children) Yes one person commented above permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]WarGawd 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (2 children) Yep, I just looked and at least u/spoot is still around permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]novacastrian90 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (1 child) He's last reddit interaction looks to be 5 years ago ? I might be wrong permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]WarGawd 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) Weird. I see similar now but when I looked before there appeared to be comments only hours old permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Jonny0stars 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (29 children) I don't understand how this works, How can a real transaction take place if no real money is involved. The richest person would simply be the person with the most HDD space for an insanely long number. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]badassumption 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago* (9 children) No - the richest person will be the one with the most computing power: 1.4 How are new Bitcoins created? New coins are generated by a network node each time it finds the solution to a certain calculational problem, for which an average solution time can be calculated. The difficulty of the problem is adjusted so that in the first 4 years of the Bitcoin network, amount X of coins will be created. The amount is halved each 4 years, so it will be X/2 after 4 years, X/4 after 8 years and so on. Thus the total number of coins will approach 2X. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (3 children) so the richest person will be the person who can afford to spend the most money on high powered tech equiptment which is used to solve random problems and the circle continues. permalink embed save parent report reply [–]Excedrin 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (1 child) No, that's not how bitcoin works, check out the paper: http://superb-west.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/bitcoin/bitcoin.pdf permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Dip_the_Dog 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago (0 children) Turns out that was exactly how bitcoin works. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]solutionblue 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) Or the person who controls the biggest botnet permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Fragsworth 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (1 child) Moore's law seems to conflict with their claim that the total number of coins will approach 2X. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]cemasoniv 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (1 child) Scroll down more, bud.- So your wealth is determined by the amount of CPU power you have? No. There's a constant average rate of new Bitcoins created, and that amount is divided among the nodes by the CPU power they use. When Bitcoins start having real exchange value, the competition for coin creation will drive the price of electricity needed for generating a coin close to the value of the coin, so the profit margin won't be that huge. The easier way to gain a lot of wealth would be trading goods. At the moment, though, you can generate new coins quite profitably, if you expect them to have real value in the future. If you choose to, be aware that Bitcoin is still experimental software. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]PlaaXer 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (0 children) pls tell me u an anonymous multi billionaire rn permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]BlubberWall 4 points5 points6 points 1 year ago (6 children) Nothing wrong with questioning it at the time as it was entirely new. Genuinely curious 12 years later, (crazy how much like a time machine this thread is) has your view changed since then? permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Jonny0stars 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago (5 children) How has this post managed to unlock itself after 12 years?! Anyway to answer your curiosity I made a post TL;DR: I didn't understand the concept back then and I do see the usefulness of blockchain now but I honestly think I've come full circle on bitcoin itself and ever since the rise of ASIC mining I've considered it an incredibly wasteful process, I do not and have not ever held any cryptocurrency. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]0xfrankless -2 points-1 points0 points 6 months ago (2 children) What an L. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Thr1ft 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (1 child) For real lmao permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Medfried 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) All he had to do was buy few bitcoin and store the key. F. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]ungood 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (11 children) What is "real" money? A transaction can occur so long as a) there is a seller who has X and wants Y and b) there is a buyer who has Y and wants X. X and Y can be bananas and pigs, plasma TVs and dollar bills, or monkeys and bitcoins. The fact is that most of the world's economies are based off of monetary systems that are no more "real" than bit coins: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_money permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Jonny0stars -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (10 children) Unlike bit coins the "real" money is regulated by central authorities, thus their is only as much money in the system as the sum total of assets or labor. Bit coins are not regulated, i could pay you 20 "bit coins" for half an hour of work and pay someone else 20,000 bit coins for the same amount of work and i would be no richer or poorer. I can however see your point but like anything its destined to fail if i can pull it out my ass. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]ItsAConspiracy 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (3 children) only as much money in the system as the sum total of assets or labor Double the amount of money in the system, and this will still be the case. It's just that each unit of money will be worth half as much. Central authorities pull new money out of their asses all the time. That's why the dollar is worth a lot less than it used to be. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]WarGawd 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago (2 children) Another guy who absolutely nailed it 13y ago!! Kudos & belated upvote permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]ItsAConspiracy 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (1 child) Haha thanks :) I wish I'd actually bought bitcoin that early! permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]WarGawd 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) Even if you had, it might have been very tough to hold on to. I have a friend who had mined 300 BTC, but sold it all in a panic when the price dipped from $12 to below $10. He didn't regret his 3K profit at the time but now......🤬 permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]cemasoniv 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (3 children) You have a very poor conception of what "real" money is. It wasn't until relatively recently that we had government-related currency (you can thank the middle ages for this). You also have a very poor idea of what total money supply is -- especially if you think its limited to assets or labor or hell, even real cash assets (on paper or in a computer). Fiat currency (what you seem to think of as "money") is created without the backing of any of these things. You give away your money 20 or 20,000 at a time because you place no value on it. When someone else is selling a car for 10,000 bitcoins, you now have a reason to not pay someone else 20,000 bitcoins for half an hours worth of yard labor. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Jonny0stars 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (2 children) If it took your four months to write that; my conception of what real money is or isn't is the least of your problems. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]cemasoniv 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) Ha, so true. I was directed here from here permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]peterk_se 0 points1 point2 points 27 days ago (0 children) wonder if it took Jonny0stars 13y to realize he fucked up permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]ungood 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) Read the FAQ. The bit coins are regulated. The rate of inflation is controlled by the speed in which a particular math problem can be solved by a computer. You can't just pull bit coins out of your ass. The Fed, however, pulls dollars out of their collective asses all the time. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]CUZDex_AllArk-io 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) I'll take that 20,000 Bitcoin for half an hour work offer bucko 😎 permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]kyohapooka 11 points12 points13 points 14 years ago (24 children) Wow. That's amazing. I don't think anyone's done a completely digital pyramid scheme before. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Hundawwwg 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (0 children) Lol you god damn fool, you were right here permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]CUZDex_AllArk-io -2 points-1 points0 points 6 months ago (2 children) Found the first BUTTCOINER 😆 seethe more permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Mostofyouareidiots 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (1 child) lol, this guy could've easily been a billionaire right now permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) Buttcoin sub is 11 years old, most of these grumpy old men could be rich permalink embed save parent report reply [–]riltjd 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (6 children) Did you still step into BTC? If not how much do you regret this statement now? permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]its_nuts_dude 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (5 children) Lol and now? permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]anewpath123 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago (0 children) I mean, they'd still be ridiculously rich permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Film2021 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (1 child) It was under $0.003 when that comment was made. Now it’s worth $20k. Keep coping lol. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]its_nuts_dude 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago (0 children) He might be regretful and missed out, but it’s still a bs pyramid scheme permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]riltjd 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) He would NOW still be a millionar with just barely any input so yeah. Now still. Also you never heard of the concept of selling at a high? You comment on a low as if being edgy. But I came close to doubling my money. Like I care about the current price lmao.. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (0 children) Boooo permalink embed save parent report reply [–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (0 children) rip permalink embed save parent report reply [–]LiaquatMurtaza 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (0 children) And the winner is... permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]SwiftBastard 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) LMAOOOO you feeling big dumb rn permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]nickpegu 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) 😆 permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]CandyCanePapa 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago (5 children) No freakin' way someone in 2009 literally didn't buy Bitcoin because they tought it was a pyramid scheme lmao. Paranoia kept you from becoming a billionaire my dude, by the end of 2009 you could've bought 100 bitcoins (1,600,000.00 USD right now) for a dollar, you fool. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Kinexity 1 point2 points3 points 7 hours ago (4 children) Cryptard detected. He would gain money by making others lose money. Nothing what you said disproves the fact that Bitcoin is a pyramid scheme (or rather a bigger fool scheme). permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]CandyCanePapa -1 points0 points1 point 6 hours ago (3 children) hurr durr pyramid scheme, tell that to the every single other state controlled currency and social security systems while you pay off the most recent banking crisis' debt RemindMe! 10 years "muh pyramid scheme i am very smart do not buy bitcoin you greater fool" permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Kinexity 0 points1 point2 points 4 hours ago (2 children) The fact that state controlled currencies have flaws doesn't change the fact that crypto is worse. It's been 14 years and it's still useless. Both of us can play this game: RemindMe! 10 years If your scheme requires for people to be early to be successfull then it's going to fail because those who are late will not adopt it and majority will be late so it's going to burn. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]CandyCanePapa 0 points1 point2 points 4 hours ago (1 child) wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong. To you, 10 years from now. Watch closely as a braindead wsb ape makes money by not doing anything besides not clicking a sell button. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]slowblogger 1 point2 points3 points 11 months ago (0 children) Just leaving a mark here. The closest I can do to talk to Satoshi. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]docmirou 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago (2 children) This feels like time travel permalink embed save report give award reply [–]abarone93 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (1 child) ripple yep..crazy permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]WarGawd 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) Yeah, fascinating to see that history permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]maurice 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (2 children) Interesting, it uses IRC as a high level protocol. See bitcoin/debug.log permalink embed save report give award reply [–]cemasoniv 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) interestingly enough, it also uses freenode's #bitcoin channel. I haven't studied the code in detail, but it looks like it only serves the purpose as a way to determine the other nodes in the network. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]combocookie 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (0 children) I hope you guys bought some permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]spilk 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (16 children) This is the sort of thing that seems cool in theory, but in practice only gets used by people buying illicit materials off the internet. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Quicksilver 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (2 children) It is interesting in theory. Why do you think it would only be used to buy illicit materials? Because regular money is never used for that? permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]spoot 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (0 children) I thought that was the whole point, haha permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]WestBankFireman 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (2 children) You were right, for a very short amount of time. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Citizen_Kano 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago (0 children) Without Silk Road we wouldn't be where we are today permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]NeonThunderHawk 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) This guy bitcoins permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]CUZDex_AllArk-io 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (2 children) Lololololol permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]John_Icarus 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (1 child) He's not wrong though. Bitcoin hasn't seen much use as a legitimate currency alternative. It is mainly used simply as a zero sum money storage system; it can't generate new value and the actual value of all the money in it remains constant. Although it is a big net loss as the miners are spending money and energy gaining value by depreciating the rest of the value of the currency. And given the drop of nearly 4x over the last year, it isn't stable long term. I'll admit it is used in a couple locations. But in most of those it is a gimmick that isn't logical to use in any major way. The only useful ones to use it are porn sites that you don't want to add your details to. Everything else is illegal. Buying illicit items, avoiding tax, transferring money illegally, paying scammers, etc. I can't think of a single use case beyond illegal activities or porn where it is commonly used. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]CUZDex_AllArk-io 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) Lololol You're q perfect example of a mediocre IQ spouting bullshit to sway even stupider normies I don't enage with you types but for anyone else reading this goober The US dollar has lost 99% of its purchasing power since 1913 Bitcoin has gone from $0.001 to $1300 then $200 then $20000 then $3000 then $70000 to today Dunno about you but id prefer a currency that goes up in the long term than one which only goes down in the long term lmao permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]WarGawd 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (4 children) Lol. You nailed the short term Orwellian prediction for Silk Road, but couldn't see far enough into the future permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]spilk 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (3 children) I apologize for not being able to predict the sheer depth of the grift and degeneracy that cryptocurrency would usher in. who could have seen how truly awful things would have become? I gave it far too much credit. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]immortaldidi 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (1 child) Yo dude are rolling in cash now? Do you have any other ideas out there? permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Medfried 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) He socializes at buttcoin subreddit now. How predictable. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]CandyCanePapa 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago (0 children) Ayyyy you're still alive and active, three comma club by any chance? permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Enginerd -4 points-3 points-2 points 14 years ago22 (5 children) a public list of all the previous transactions is collectively maintained by the network of Bitcoin nodes Lol, what an astonishingly terrible system. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]cyntrex 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago (0 children) True /s permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]elvislunchbox 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago (0 children) Whoopsies permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]metakitty99 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (0 children) 5 awards and 12 years later... permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]IntoxiCaitlyn 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) r/agedlikemilk permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]CUZDex_AllArk-io 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) For privacy...yes permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]chirma_chirma 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (1 child) It is a piece of history 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 permalink embed save report give award reply [–]2SatoshiJoe 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) A pizza of history? permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Scary_Milk 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (0 children) How much for a pizza? permalink embed save report give award reply [–]cmaz5 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (0 children) NFT this sub permalink embed save report give award reply [–]BigLakerFan24 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (0 children) Crazy idea, it will never catch on permalink embed save report give award reply [–]KevinAlexandr 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (3 children) I am part of history now. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Ben_MOR 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (2 children) I was here. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]wwwtf 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (0 children) 💎🤲 permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]rainforestguru 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) Ever even been to easter island? permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]adamantium421 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (1 child) Fascinating mix of early reactions posted here. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]cleverusername123455 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (0 children) pretty cool to see permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Hundawwwg 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (0 children) Incredible seeing the people in this space 12 years ago permalink embed save report give award reply [–]ObservableFailure 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (0 children) I'm super bullish permalink embed save report give award reply [–]fmustang202 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (0 children) Hello I am a Nigerian Prince please check your messages permalink embed save report give award reply [–]sucobe 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (0 children) Peer to peer digital currency? This will never catch on. permalink embed save report give award reply [–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (0 children) You are not the father. permalink embed save report reply [–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (0 children) Bitcoin is an Exaggerated form of Internet Money permalink embed save report reply [–]Inlz 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (0 children) 🚀 permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Complete_Disk3655 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (4 children) If these people had the superpower for foresight, they would be multi billionaires now. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]InternationalTea9203 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (3 children) Think like today also there are currencies in binance which is trading at 10-12$ per coin.. i m sure some of them(few) will be around 60-70k$ per coin in 2030…thn ppl from 2030 will come and commeent on our posts that how foolishnly we sold that coin permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]gr8ful4 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) Funny enough that after 13 years people still have not figured out what an actual CRYPTO (hidden) CURRENCY (fungible) is. "Monero is what crypto noobs think they bought." - Dr. Daniel Kim permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]bolyai 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (1 child) RemindMe! Jan 1, 2030 permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]dsmid 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (0 children) Well, that escalated quickly. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]enraged768 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (0 children) I'm here permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Krashadar 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (0 children) :) permalink embed save report give award reply [–]yrathore 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (0 children) Just finished reading the article on my internet explorer. Idea looks promising ngl permalink embed save report give award reply [–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 months ago (0 children) wow ,feels good man reading how people reacted for the first time permalink embed save report reply [–]Federal-Square-3497 0 points1 point2 points 8 months ago (0 children) Don’t mind me, just passing through. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]ScottyPuffJr 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (1 child) This is amazing, just reading these comments from 13 years ago. This post should be added preserved forever! permalink embed save report give award reply [–]John_Icarus 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago (0 children) He says, leaving a comment cluttering and ruining the preservation of the post. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]dkk-1709 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) Looks promising permalink embed save report give award reply [–]VincentBarajas 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) Leaving a mark permalink embed save report give award reply [–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) I was here permalink embed save report reply [–]slasula 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) history! permalink embed save report give award reply [–]L0ckeandDemosthenes 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) First post. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]ytpriv 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) 🏅 permalink embed save report give award reply [–]GettinWiggyWiddit 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) Wow, this was some awesome time traveling permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Poorestmanincrypto 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) This Bitcoin thing will never catch on. Shut this thread down permalink embed save report give award reply [–]BCHisFuture 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) 🤓🕵 permalink embed save report give award reply [–]NeonThunderHawk 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) See you all back here in another 13 years 👍 permalink embed save report give award reply [–]CUZDex_AllArk-io 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) I have a feeling this bitcoin thing might go somewhere 🤔 permalink embed save report give award reply [–]killerj666 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) Commenting for legacy permalink embed save report give award reply [–]FullTube 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) To myself 13 years ago, buy fucking Bitcoin! permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Vbogdanovic 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) Commenting - BTC is sub $20k - check back when it breaks $100k permalink embed save report give award reply [–]chinguyeyeo 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) Just leaving a footprint too. History was made. It'll be made again soon. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]HODL-THE-LINE 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) I can be in this so I want to be in this. Hello world! Hi Alexander! I love you, son! permalink embed save report give award reply [–]laumbr 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) Love this thread! permalink embed save report give award reply [–]_Vegemite 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) Please remind me in another 13 years that I posted here and see if I’m still a hodler and believer permalink embed save report give award reply [–]JRDN7 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) Posting for posterity, current spot price $19,109 USD permalink embed save report give award reply [–]theabominablewonder 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) Looks interesting, might buy a couple permalink embed save report give award reply [–]christmascarolcat 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) Cool. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]ClamCrusher31 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) Bitcoin permalink embed save report give award reply [–]MinimumWar269 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) Should have definitely listen to my coworker who told me to buy 1k of BTC in 2012/2013 and mine it, as I was IT manager and ran a 100+ computers infrastructure, working H24, 7J/7, total control.. I snobbed him.. 10 years later, have 2 BTC and I feel so dumb 🤷‍♂️ permalink embed save report give award reply [–]dirkgent 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (1 child) see you in 13 more years permalink embed save report give award reply [–]DockyX 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) RemindME! 13 years permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Euphori333 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) It’s like entering a time warp permalink embed save report give award reply [–]TexasBoyz-713 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) I would not be able to live with myself if I knew 100% about Bitcoin 13 years ago, and didn’t buy not a single cent’s worth. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]llllllllllllllll12 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) Bought in 2019 - DCA ever since. Thank you. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]plug_and_pray 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) Buy Bitcoin it will be worth thousands in the future! permalink embed save report give award reply [–]spyalien 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) What’s Bitcoin ? permalink embed save report give award reply [–]WarGawd 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago* (1 child) And 13y later we're still early. RemindMe! 1 year permalink embed save report give award reply [–]RemindMeBot 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago* (0 children) I will be messaging you in 13 years on 2035-10-15 13:22:56 UTC to remind you of this link 1 OTHERS CLICKED THIS LINK to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam. Parent commenter can delete this message to hide from others. Info Custom Your Reminders Feedback permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]ECore 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) One of the best uses for Bitcoin was cointube back then. Somehow you got dust Bitcoin for watching YouTube videos. I accumulated 1 Bitcoin that way..well including faucets and games. Too bad all those dust transactions f'ed my wallet up and I had to spend quite a bit of it to free it up....I wish I let it be f'ed up permalink embed save report give award reply [–]YaZEUS 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) RemindMe! 5 years permalink embed save report give award reply [–]novacastrian90 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) I had heard about bitcoin back then, and really wanted to get some but i was too lazy to even read about how to get it. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]ahsieh 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) leaving my mark on the first btc post permalink embed save report give award reply [–]wilplatypus 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) This thread is already in Bitcoin history books. Viva la Satoshi permalink embed save report give award reply [–]B4N3x10 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) Wish I was here 13 years ago. Damnnn! permalink embed save report give award reply [–]rainforestguru 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) Jasmy? permalink embed save report give award reply [–]RkBaby 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) Rk permalink embed save report give award reply [–]awdi4life 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) Epic post, can't wait to see what btc is worth in 10 years since it's at 19k rn. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]tohbeats 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) This is always great to read. 🧡 permalink embed save report give award reply [–]_main_chain_ 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) Sats To The Future permalink embed save report give award reply [–]2WYCE 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago (0 children) This is an amazing historical Bitcoin monument! I remember buying a few bitcoin back then as a test just to use it to anonymously buy what I really wanted. Nothing illicit, I just thought it was a cool concept and as a tech nerd engineer I just wanted to try it out. The thing is, at that time, I had no experience or knowledge about INVESTING in anything at all. The actual value of Bitcoin itself did not occur to me one bit. I just looked at it as a way to send DOLLARS over the internet anonymously, and that's all. Nothing else. When I finally caught on to investing, bitcoin was not on my radar. I tried stocks off and on but couldn't grasp it. I ended up trying real estate, and I've done quite well with that. Bitcoin and crypto weren't even on my radar. It wasn't until COVID hit in 2020, and I decided that was going to be my best opportunity to get into the STOCK market. I installed Robinhood for that purpose, and Bitcoin happened to be in the app. That started my bitcoin & crypto investment journey. Still, as a noob, I didn't buy most of it until it was 40k, 50k. Lol. Now I'm smarter about accumulating it through this bear market and if it repeats history, I'll be prepared this time. There's probably still about 7 BTC (less than $1 worth at the time) in my long-gone original "test transaction" wallet from 2010. 😂😂 I know most won't care about this. I posted this as a "flag 🚩 at this historical Bitcoin monument", mostly for the reading pleasure of my future self. 🤓 permalink embed save report give award reply [–]CandyCanePapa 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago (1 child) Why is this piece of historical footage unarchived permalink embed save report give award reply [–]CandyCanePapa 0 points1 point2 points 4 months ago (0 children) 14 Years later and it's still early, BTC 16933 USD. RemindMe! 14 years "People complain about not having bought Bitcoin 14 years ago. Buy bitcoin now so you won't be complaining in 14 years." permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Wakenbake585 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago (0 children) An annoying kid I worked with back in 09-10 told me about Bitcoin and it just went in one ear and out the other. He must've never bought any because he's still doing the same job. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]SPYalltimehightoday 0 points1 point2 points 1 month ago (0 children) Hi, I’m apart of history now. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Tim207251 0 points1 point2 points 1 day ago (0 children) hmm... this thread has aged very well! Long live BTC. ❤️ permalink embed save report give award reply

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Cryptocurrency: Booth's Theory Of Everything
by grarpamp 11 May '23

11 May '23

Thoughts on Jeff Booth's hypothesis? (self.Bitcoin) submitted 1 day ago by Treebuneredditor for a day Jeff Booth is a famous Bitcoiner, and as far as I understand it, essentially argues that technological advancement increases the productivity of a society. That is, through technological progress things get cheaper and easier to make. His second point is that in a free and open market, prices should always fall to the marginal cost of production, because competition and market forces will attack them until they do. He then puts these together, to say that as technology progresses, the prices of everything around us should be getting cheaper. There's a lot here, but he then says the reason they aren't is because our current system is being manipulated in order to prop itself up, because the system itself is insolvent, and if there were deflationary forces (which makes debt more expensive), the entire system would collapse on itself. He also says that humans should not be working 40 hours a week, and that it's unnecessary anymore due to technology and the increase in productivity, but again, persists due to the manipulation of the system. Finally, he says and predicts that the prices of everything will continue to fall against Bitcoin, because Bitcoin has a fixed supply, therefore no inflation, and therefore as productivity and technology continue to progress they will drive down prices of everything in comparison to a scarce asset like Bitcoin. What are your thoughts on this? 89 comments share save hide report all 89 comments sorted by: best topnewcontroversialoldrandomq&alive (beta) Want to add to the discussion? Post a comment! Create an account [–]facepalm5000 81 points82 points83 points 1 day ago He's correct Hard money is the missing ingredient in global prosperity permalink embed save report give award reply [–]RHINO_HUMPredditor for 6 weeks 12 points13 points14 points 22 hours ago Yeah, but, what about the corrupt banksters, governments, and politicians? Who will start profit wars and steal our freedoms if they can’t leech wealth via inflation and artificial economic busts?? Their lives matter too!! permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]facepalm5000 5 points6 points7 points 18 hours ago They'll still find people to grift on somewhere permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Fbastiat1850 1 point2 points3 points 5 hours ago They can start a religion. They seem pretty good at dogmatic dictate and compliancy by fearmongering. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]BOkuma 64 points65 points66 points 1 day ago He does a really good interview on "What Bitcoin did" youtube channel. He's right long term, the only thing in question is the timing. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]No-Cardiologist9268 26 points27 points28 points 1 day ago I’ve listened to Jeff a bit now and find him to be one of the leaders in the space. I think op does a good job of summarizing Jeff’s thesis. He’s also highly respected in the community(Larry Lepard and Greg Foss have cool things to say about him and they’re awesome too) and brings a real zen sophistication to the space. I initially got his marginal cost of production argument confused with Menger’s idea of marginal utility. I will keep studying and I appreciate the post op permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–][deleted] 16 hours ago [deleted] [–]ulrik23 1 point2 points3 points 8 hours ago A Gucci shirt is a specific type of luxury good called a Veblen good, these goods sell because they're expensive. The example I believe he used was a supercar, which the price actually does fall (example: modern sportscar outperforms every 80s supercar for a fraction of the cost) Then there are still goods with artificially restricted supply which increases the prices too (limited edition cars / Rolex watch) permalink embed save report give award reply [–]MyCryptoFriend 0 points1 point2 points 9 hours ago You heard it here folks… Gucci shirts are the next bitcoin. Better load up on them! permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Treebuneredditor for a day[S] 8 points9 points10 points 1 day ago Yep, totally agree. That's where I first found him. It was a great interview. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]coinminingrig 3 points4 points5 points 17 hours ago Everyone has a motivation to join a podcast and do an interviewed, remember that. Time and resources are not free. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]etmetm 6 points7 points8 points 16 hours ago Yes, he states his motivation: A better world for his kids, mainly. Also debating and educating others on the link between deflation, technological progress and sound money. Be the change you want to see in the world. Be the glitch you want to see in the Matrix. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]coinminingrig -1 points0 points1 point 12 hours ago I highly doubt that’s all. Remember SBF with his altruism and vegan billionaire video. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]etmetm 1 point2 points3 points 8 hours ago It's not about the person, it's about the message and arguments. SBF never gave signal, it was mostly noise. Lots of signal for Booth, in fact there's a whole article on it: Finding Signal In A Noisy World permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]ElderBlade 19 points20 points21 points 1 day ago Everything he said is correct and just makes sense. Technology increases productivity several hundred times every few years, coinciding with computing power doubling ever 18 months. The Sovereign Individual argues that microprocessing will make most governments obsolete and a thing of the past because they will eventually lose their control over money and have to compete for capital and talented individuals. These individuals can produce goods and services from any location in the world with technology and therefore have the economic mobility to choose in the jurisdictions that tax the least. You can already see it with doctors in London performing surgery on a grape in LA, people making music online, tik tok, etc. It will get to the point where governments dissolve into smaller sovereignties with their own rules and tax arrangements, all driven by technology. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Siiiddharth 8 points9 points10 points 20 hours ago Wow. Without control of the money governments have to compete just like everyone else. I never thought of it that way. Years into this and Bitcoin still blows my mind. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]MuXu96 1 point2 points3 points 17 hours ago Would be so great to see, but I believe change is a pretty long term thing and only really overseeable over generations permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]ElderBlade 2 points3 points4 points 6 hours ago I wouldn't be so sure of that. Technology is accelerating change rapidly. The agricultural revolution took a thousand years and the industrial age just a few hundred. In the information age, we could see these changes in a lifetime. The Internet alone has completely transformed our society in just 20 years. Throw AI and and Bitcoin into a collapsing fiat system and this change could come a lot a sooner than you think. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]AnonTheGreat01 2 points3 points4 points 11 hours ago Once while tripping & being sky high on shrooms, I saw how Bitcoin caused nation states & borders as we understand them today to vanish. Wars would become a thing of the past as the most desirable property can no longer be stolen & trying to do so would be too cost prohibitive as fighting wars on someone else's dime becomes impossible. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]No-Cardiologist9268 [score hidden] 44 minutes ago This is similar to the concept behind Balaji’s book, The Network State permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Capaj 0 points1 point2 points 5 hours ago where governments dissolve into smaller sovereignties with their own rules and tax arrangements why smaller? Isn't the world getting more globalized each passing year? permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]ElderBlade 0 points1 point2 points 5 hours ago Smaller because it's easier for the group to manage themselves and they may have specialized desires based on location. One group might like to have their own set of rules near an ocean versus a group that lives in a desert. For example, you always hear that Texas or some other state might secede from the US. Some of these states' economies are large of enough to do that, and at some point in the future it could be a real possibility. Remember Brexit? Britain left the EU. So yeah world is becoming more globalized but at the same time nationalism and the idea of citizenship is also eroding away, giving way to smaller sovereignties. It's already a thing in some parts of the world. Agulhas Bay Concession Free Zone is a 50 square kilometer section of the Sao Tome island near west Africa. It's a private, tax free jurisdiction that negotiated with the government to have their own area where security is provided by a private company, the official language is English, and the currency used is the US dollar. Companies are becoming virtual with no real location, so it's not a stretch to say that multimillion dollar companies become one person operations using AI to assist running the company from anywhere in the world. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]satoshi_69420redditor for 1 week 50 points51 points52 points 1 day ago Jeff Booth is a brilliant thinker and a very compassionate person. One thing he said that blew my mind was that we will vote for people who say they will give us money for nothing, not realizing that these “welfares” are part of the problem. Highly recommend his book, the price of tomorrow. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]mrstoatey 5 points6 points7 points 17 hours ago He is right about the voting I think, but I don’t think the problem is fundamentally welfares but how they are funded. In a hard money system it’s still possible to tax people that do relatively very well (whilst still leaving them very well off) and fund welfare programmes which in some cases do make sense (random chance can play a huge part in some people’s fortunes). The issue is when those programmes are funded by money printing then there is an ever growing number of them and only the rich can outpace the inflation caused by it so they grow ever richer and everyone else ends up on food banks. I don’t recall if Jeff Booth made that distinction or was arguing against welfares in a more broad sense. I do think that his theory was sound though and his position of measuring things from the broken system being inherently both wrong and frustrating is interesting. What’s crazy is how long it can take to play out and how long the current fiat mess can persist despite being clearly broken. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Journey-Destination 23 points24 points25 points 1 day ago I find his arguments persuasive. If you read his book, "The Price of Tomorrow" you'll find that it has held up very well since it was written in 2020. He also talks about how the system cannot be fixed by the system, and how Bitcoin is opting out of that system. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Valence101 8 points9 points10 points 23 hours ago I agree with his thesis. From a young age it made no sense to me that prices didn't go down as filing cabinets and clerks were replaced by a bloke with a PC. As machines allow me to buy groceries instead of cashiers. As farm equipment drives itself via satellite GPS. As genetically modified crop yields balloon. It'll be interesting to see prices continue to rise as AI replaces my job and automation just takes over lol permalink embed save report give award reply [–][deleted] 16 hours ago [deleted] [–]Valence101 0 points1 point2 points 13 hours ago Yeah ☹️ permalink embed save report give award reply [–]yarik2020 1 point2 points3 points 6 hours ago not only they're increasing, they're in fact exploding. Really mind blowing. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]HaveRewengeyredditor for 3 months 9 points10 points11 points 23 hours ago He is correct. We need to focus on efficiency rather than growth, and the fact that have an inflationary system focusing on growth, means we are caught in a hamster wheel. Imagine how high inflation would be if the negative effects of technology were not in play! The delta is humungous. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]standardcivilian 8 points9 points10 points 23 hours ago Yes, that's what happened on the gold standard. The reason prices rise while production increases is due to theft by those that control the money supply. It's amazing none of these evil people are talked about, or in prison. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Alfador8 1 point2 points3 points 7 hours ago Because we're too busy arguing about pronouns permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Pleasant_Theme_4355 5 points6 points7 points 15 hours ago Jeff’s greatest message - Don’t lean into the old system and give it more power and energy.Instead spend your time and energy on living in the new system.Accept the system is changing and move on https://youtu.be/P-IBzMBq8QY permalink embed save report give award reply [–]SunnyDayShadowboxer 5 points6 points7 points 23 hours ago His hypothesis presented in The Price of Tomorrow which he also has articulated across numerous podcasts is a strong argument. I'm glad he is speaking more as he is a strong writer, but initial talks showed he really needed polishing with public speaking. Now that he has had plenty of time in front of mics w/ his ideas solidified, he is doing great work spreading his message. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]ArnzenArms 8 points9 points10 points 22 hours ago There is nothing wrong with his hypothesis. It's something I've been struggling with for the past couple of years. Inflation steals from everyone, but it mostly impacts the poor (non-asset class). The asset holders are relatively unaffected, so there is a wealth transfer from the working class to the asset class. It dawned on me a year or two ago that its not just inflation. Even if there was ZERO inflation, all the productivity gains brought about by society, creativity, and ingenuity are ALSO getting taken and contribute to this wealth transfer. We don't even know how much that represents. Is productivity growing at 2%, 10%, 20%, 50%... who knows? I realize it is different for different industries. Semiconductors is drastic, which is why there's price reductions even with inflation. But even things like farming have had tremendous improvements in productivity over the last 100 years. Even so, the price of bread is up at least an order of magnitude during my lifetime ($0.50 to $5). So how would you feel if productivity is running at 20% per year and inflation is at 2-5%. That's really 22-25% of monetary debasement and wealth transfer from the poor to the rich. Why are there not people in the streets revolting? Wealth disparity has driven many revolutions in the past. I mean it's obfuscated, but it's not complicated. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]5liveR 2 points3 points4 points 17 hours ago bc they have put us in a dark deep cave and took away the candles. Bitcoin and the internet is lighting them back on. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]AnonTheGreat01 2 points3 points4 points 11 hours ago Yep. The problem with the current system is that 2 groups benefit: A) People who are extremely productive & create innovative tech. B) People who already owned all the scarce & desirable assets before the digital production boom started. Group C) is screwed, these are people with barely any assets at all have their wages & purchasing power hollowed out by inflation. While electronics get cheaper, this deflationary pressure has to be offset by additional money printing, causing things like convenience goods to become more expensive. Under a hard currency, group A still benefits but group B no longer benefits as disproportionally (and at the cost of group C) as before, while group C is now also profiting from deflation caused by group A. I realize it is different for different industries. Right. So for farming perhaps 2% efficiency increase per year, while for semiconductors it's 40%. Semiconductors become cheaper because the monetary supply is not expanding at 40%+ per year. But food is not becoming cheaper because the monetary supply is expanding like 7% a year, faster than the efficiency is increasing. If you want to see what the 'true' inflation is, look at prices of scarce desirable assets like houses & stocks. Why are there not people in the streets revolting? Most people are completely clueless about this. Even 120+ IQ people working in finance. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Treebuneredditor for a day[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 hours ago I agree with everything you said, but I have a hard time fully buying in to the "new system" because regardless of the system, it's still true that there's no free lunch. It's easy to see our current system and point out the flaws, but how can we be so sure that a new system would be better or more fair? People get caught up criticizing the current system, which is fair, but I don't know, I just have a hard time accepting that this system is all evil and the next system will be all good. There's tradeoffs to everything and I'm just wondering what those really are in this context. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Wise-Application-144 4 points5 points6 points 15 hours ago I've actually found his book very useful on a personal level. I can run my household a bit like an economy. His lesson is essentially that technology is deflationary but inflation, corruption and artificial bottlenecks distort the effects. So that suggests you should invest in productive technology, using debt if necessary, bypass the debt-distorted market where possible and try and work in an industry where prices get adjusted to keep up with real terms. Basically go long on technology and short on fiat. For me, it gave me the confidence to make some changes. My country offers interest free loans for green home improvements. I got a massive solar array, home battery, EV charger and an EV, all interest free. And inflation is 10-15% where I live, so that debt is shrinking in real terms. My government is subsidising me because I understand inflation and they don't. Meanwhile my government remains determined to get barebacked by global energy markets, but I'm mostly off the grid now. Breakeven for me is something like 7 years, the system has a warranty out to 25 years. I'm switching jobs to a more secure industry that's also hi-tech and should be pretty sturdy in times of economic strife. My partner has done similar. And we bought our other car outright instead of relying on increasingly expensive commercial leases. And the money we're saving is going into stacking sats. Plus some other diversified investments. Basically we've reduced or removed the ability for distorted energy markets, new and used car markets, property prices, interest rates and unemployment rates to hurt us. Our household is run in a way Jeff Booth would approve of. And the best part is it's low risk. If Jeff is wrong and the global economy is fine, I save some money. And if he's right, I save my family from economic ruin. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]AnonTheGreat01 0 points1 point2 points 11 hours ago Basically go long on technology and short on fiat. Pretty much. Just be careful with the amount of leverage because things can become very volatile during hyperinflation & you want to avoid getting wiped out at all costs. Better to live frugally than to dabble in credit too much. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Wise-Application-144 1 point2 points3 points 11 hours ago Yep, I've just finished a book on the Weimar Republic, and something that stands out was that the people that tried to use debt to acquire hard assets were wiped out. THey either got margin called in huge volatility swings, wiped out when the markets finally returned to nroma and the black market for hard assets disappeared, or even wiped out when the government reinstated loans that were paid off in nominal terms. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]5liveR 2 points3 points4 points 18 hours ago The Price Of Tomorrow is one of the greatest book I ever read. What this book does for me is defining the macro landscape and its deepest layer of forces at play. This is a reality that becames obvious immediately to me once reading it, but before it wasn't something I gave much thought to. Deflationary forces are even stronger than inflationary monetary policies. It may give alot of answer as to why the US keeps acting like it wants to create more inflation; it may well be that it needs it and can't get there soon enough to make debt more affortable. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Treebuneredditor for a day[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 hours ago Absolutely! This is his newest video. This one really helped me understand his message a lot better. He really makes it easy to understand. Highly recommend. https://youtu.be/c7G4GfxcJ\_M permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Sportfreunde 1 point2 points3 points 20 hours ago Deflation via technology is not a Jeff Booth concept he just elaborated by writing a book on it. Study Austrian economics and it mentions just this. Deflation is the natural order as technology increases production. So it's not really about whether or not you agree with his hypothesis, his hypothesis is the natural order of what happens without gov't intervention. It's more about whether or not you agree with that gov't intervention which leads to the target 2% inflation even with technological advancement (or often, much higher). permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Zealousideal_Line629 1 point2 points3 points 20 hours ago His theory is correct about societal GDP however this does not automatically translate to being good for the individual. At its simplest terms take 3 McDonalds entry level positions being replaced with robotic type functions. This may in fact increase the GDP of the McDonald's however 3 people are now out of work. Just my thought. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]HighSolstice 2 points3 points4 points 17 hours ago I believe the idea is those three employees time would then be freed up to do something more productive than working at McDonalds thus contributing further to societal GDP. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Zealousideal_Line629 2 points3 points4 points 13 hours ago Understood and agreed for 'today'. And just talking in theory for the heck of it. Initially yes the employees hopefully find other jobs. But play this out further as more and more technology replaces the need for human attendance. I see software eng/dev and mach mechanic jobs created but (in theory) wouldn't eventually the need for human interaction become less of a requirement and unemployment would rise? Creating a potential larger welfare state? permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]spid3rfly 2 points3 points4 points 9 hours ago This is one part of his theory that I wish he'd expand on more. It does seem it would increase the welfare state. It seems like I've heard him touch on this but nothing outside of it freeing those people to do other things. That's all great if those people can actually find jobs. I think on the surface that his theory about things decreasing in price makes everyone's life easier(better?)... it seems to me that it would eventually make money not quite as important as it is today but I'm not sure how to construct thoughts around that. I can sort of see it abstractly, but a world where money isn't important seems bizarre... especially in the capitalistic parts of the world. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Zealousideal_Line629 1 point2 points3 points 6 hours ago A fun discussion. We are junior philosophers. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]AnonTheGreat01 1 point2 points3 points 11 hours ago I just think your conclusion is wrong. I don't think this leads to a few people owning all productivity & everyone else poor, jobless and on welfare. I think this leads to many things becoming completely or almost completely free. Like most apps on your phone today. But it's hard to imagine a world with that degree of abundance, based on the fact that we have lived in a world of scarcity that was based on survival for thousands of years... permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Zealousideal_Line629 0 points1 point2 points 6 hours ago Got it. No problem. Just thinking. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]PaulTheMartian 1 point2 points3 points 19 hours ago I haven’t heard of him, but he’s right. Any particular video of his you recommend? I wonder if he’s familiar with the Austrian School of economic thought. As Ludwig von Mises insinuates throughout his works, a free market in banking would inevitably result in the collapse of fiat, fractional reserve currencies. They’d easily be beat when having to compete with currencies of finite supply like Bitcoin, or currencies tied to something like gold. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]KurtiZ_TSW 1 point2 points3 points 17 hours ago Sounds like how I think permalink embed save report give award reply [–]doge_dealer 1 point2 points3 points 12 hours ago It's not a 'hypothesis', more like a common knowledge at this point. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Treebuneredditor for a day[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 hours ago I definitely would not call it common knowledge. If you pick any random person on the street and ask them about any of these things they will have no idea. The vast majority of people are stuck in the system and operate within its paradigm. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Serenityprayer69 2 points3 points4 points 23 hours ago It assumes no price appreciation through premium on new technology. Just because it's cheaper and cheaper to make a TV doesn't mean the Advent of cell phones and tablets totally disrupted how we wanted to be entertained. We are like economic gold fish. The thing just at the top of our financial reach will be what the majority will desire. If there isn't something there it will be created permalink embed save report give award reply [–]gubatron 0 points1 point2 points 21 hours ago that he's wrong on the deflationary part. Bitcoin will keep having inflation at an ever lower halfed rate every 4 years, until it's finished printing. After that it will not deflate. Bitcoin is currently desinflationary, eventually fixed. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]LiveDirtyEatClean 0 points1 point2 points 21 hours ago I think your mixing supply and price, it’s a very common mistake permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]lovegoingdownmelocalredditor for 3 months -1 points0 points1 point 18 hours ago No the supply of bitcoin is inflationary since 900 bitcoins are created every day. Next year this is 450 bitcoins a day, then it halves again to 225 in 2028. So the inflation rate is dropping ever closer to 0 but it won't be 0 inflation until 2140 technically. Price of bitcoin is irrelevant to what the inflation rate of the bitcoin currency is. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]LiveDirtyEatClean 1 point2 points3 points 11 hours ago Sorry you were correct originally. I was just sick last night and brain didn’t work permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]amezibra -2 points-1 points0 points 13 hours ago It is not inflationary as it is capped at 21M whatever happens permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]lovegoingdownmelocalredditor for 3 months 1 point2 points3 points 13 hours ago* Yeah when we reach the 21m point bitcoin will have a rate of 0% inflation, however currently because bitcoin supply is going up every day with block rewards the current bitcoin inflation rate is 1.74%. We won't reach 21m bitcoin until 2140 though so bitcoin is inflationary just very low inflation. Source: https://charts.woobull.com/bitcoin-inflation/ With every halving in block rewards every 4 years we get closer to 0% inflation. Love the downvote 😄 permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Treebuneredditor for a day[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 hours ago Absolutely, this is correct. Fun fact: The stock to flow ratio of Bitcoin will drop below that of gold after the next halving. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]AnonTheGreat01 0 points1 point2 points 11 hours ago You're not wrong, but 99% of all Bitcoin will have been mined by 2035. And technological deflation already outpaces Bitcoins monetary inflation today, so we're already deflationary in practical terms. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]RickJamesB1tch 0 points1 point2 points 23 hours ago only it get cheaper if there is competition. Technology has become really complex to the point that if you need to upstart the next fab... it is impossible as the aggregate knowledge of how to start something like that and gets super expensive to compete at the bleeding edge. Therefore, it is not cheaper because only the ones aggregating that knowledge have control of that tech, and thus can also control the prices. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Seattleman1955 -1 points0 points1 point 23 hours ago I think that he is probably largely correct but that's not a certainty and he also underplays the potential difficulties in transitioning to such a system and it's not a certainty that this is how things will play out. Technology may not always be deflationary and people may not want the deflationary system. Overall, I largely agree with him though. permalink embed save report give award reply [+]Jtex1414 -8 points-7 points-6 points 23 hours ago The reality is that everything will only ever get more expensive. That's what inflation does. Let's take the Dollar for example. How much can you get for $1 today? 20 years ago? 50 years ago? 100 years ago? The US believes inflation is healthy/normal (something like 2% is the target every year I think). Regardless of advancements, prices will always go up - The market expects them to. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]cryptofarmer08 5 points6 points7 points 21 hours ago But inflation isn’t the increase of prices. That is a direct result of inflation. Inflation literally means the expansion of supply, in this case money supply. So if yesterday I paid $100 for an item but tomorrow everyone had double the money, then we’d expect the price to be $200 in an open market. Since Bitcoin isn’t inflated more than on a set schedule for a limited period of time, prices will not rise against Bitcoin just against the dollar or other currencies which print money. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Claytonious 7 points8 points9 points 21 hours ago That is "reality" by deliberate design of the fiat money system that's currently dominant. It's not a law of nature. In fact, it's unnatural. This is exactly what Booth's book is about. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]ElderBlade 5 points6 points7 points 22 hours ago It still remains true that technology is deflationary. Did you know that in 1981 1 MB of storage cost $3500? Today it costs pennies. Microchips have increased our productivity making products and services a lot cheaper than they otherwise would be. Laptops and phones get cheaper if you just wait a year. What you're talking about is keynsian economics. Prices increase in a debt driven system propped up by cheap money and central bank monetary debasement. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]5liveR 2 points3 points4 points 17 hours ago incredible. For me, as Booth mentions in the book, the perfect example is the smartphone: to cover its functionalities today, in the year 2000 you needed a "dumb" phone, a PC, a digital camera, a tv, a dvd player, a radio, a tv remote, a gps navigation device , an altimeter, a bar code scanner, ... just to name some. The price and the physical size decrease could be around -90% to say the least. Well, if you use Apple maybe only -70% lol permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]5liveR 1 point2 points3 points 17 hours ago what you have is a forked price behaviour like this Price Changes: 2000-2022 Its also mentioned in the book. You should have read. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [+]Affectionate_Bad8815 -6 points-5 points-4 points 20 hours ago Yeah, and coz i only work 1 day a week i fly to the tropics for a week. Oh ! But wait, the pilot of the plane only works 1 day a week to, booked up, oh and wait again the hotel where i stay, all the staff only work 1 day a wee....oh well off to the movies at home...oh wait...!!! permalink embed save report give award reply [–]never_safe_for_life 2 points3 points4 points 18 hours ago Different people work on different days?? permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Treebuneredditor for a day[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 hours ago I think he's referring to the top being gatekept. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]MiceAreTiny 0 points1 point2 points 16 hours ago Everybody needs to produce a lifetime supply of goods and services. Some people use technology and do this faster and others do not, therefore, a doctor will have to work less compared to a barber. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]Apprehensive-Bed5241 -2 points-1 points0 points 20 hours ago Bro -i have to work 80 hours just to keep up with life. I dunno where <40 hours is coming from. The more you work the more you produce, should be a personal preference, no? Add work to life responsibilities, and bruh, its more than thosen40 hours. Sure we could consume less, but that takes more will than working hard, and I have more than just my mouth to feed. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Treebuneredditor for a day[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 hours ago I suggest you watch some of Jeff Booth's interviews. The idea is that you would have to work less for more. It sounds crazy in the current system, but all things considered, that is what technology *should* be providing. What's the point of technological advancement if we still have to slave away 60 or more hours a week just to have a decent standard of living? Really, ask yourself that. What is the point? So we can have bigger TVs? No, the point of technological advancement is to make life for humans easier, but the current system is manipulated against that. permalink embed save parent report give award reply [–]QuickAltTab 0 points1 point2 points 13 hours ago A free market, which in these contexts always seem to mean free of government intervention, is a fantasy. They always assume good faith actors who won't resort to the same illegal monopolistic/profiteering strategies that have been used in the past: child labor, indentured servitude, discrimination, company scrip, unsafe practices, etc. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]amezibra 0 points1 point2 points 13 hours ago As long as by freewill some people want/are able to accumulate more wealth than others this remains an utopia. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]liquefire81 0 points1 point2 points 12 hours ago Tech of course does. You can see it everywhere and you can reduce the time you spen “working” because of it However, there is a group who want to make you believe otherwise permalink embed save report give award reply [–]StreetPlenty8042 0 points1 point2 points 11 hours ago Human nature and self interest are even more powerful than hard money. Prices settle at a point that maximizes income for producers and this is not at the marginal cost as producers combine and collide (explicitly or implicitly) as it is in their self interest. The result of this is instead of things getting cheaper, the rich are getting richer. I believe his ideas are correct - IF you ignore human nature. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]AnonTheGreat01 0 points1 point2 points 11 hours ago I think he is right. And the hypothesis explains many phenomenons we've been seeing this past decade. It does not guarantee that Bitcoin is the best solution & will become a success though, but I don't know of anything that's even half as promising. We need currency with fixed supply & with an inalterable monetary policy. We need money that cannot be confiscated & manipulated. Like many others point out, the timing is just very unpredictable. I agree with Jeff it's most beneficial for all if the fiat system does not implode very fast, but does so gradually. We're probably talking 2030s. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]jonesmatty 0 points1 point2 points 11 hours ago His book is astounding. It's hard to comprehend someone that smart is walking around. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]wilber-guy 0 points1 point2 points 9 hours ago A free and open market does NOT provide cheaper and cheaper goods. At some point it doesn’t make senses for producers to compete on a product with little to no margin. In a society like ours, selling luxury goods to the 1% makes more sense than catering to the masses. A free market tries to extract as much wealth as possible, so it entirely ignores the bottom 50% of the population that have no wealth to extract. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]DajngoCat 0 points1 point2 points 8 hours ago Agreed. Only strong manipulation of the national currencies is keeping fiat alive. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Mektzer 0 points1 point2 points 8 hours ago My thoughts are that he is 100% correct. He also said in a recent podcast that he could have actually summarized his book in just one line: Technology is deflationary, deal with it. I would love to hear other economists thoughts because I guess most of them should completely disagree with him. permalink embed save report give award reply [–]dannycheeko 0 points1 point2 points 6 hours ago 1 - have you noticed how public corporations always are required to beat last year's earning by any means possible? Why is that? And notice what happens if they only beat last year's earning by 2% vs an expected 8%... ppl get mad (the main 1% of big time investors). 2 - technology has gotten cheaper, moore's law has played a big impact on this. consider the price of a 10MB disk 50 years ago to the price of your 10GB phone now. 3 - humans shouldn't be working more than 40 hours a week - but we still do because of two major issues: the first being linked to item 1 above, if you aren't beating last year's numbers are you even in business? And 2, society has lost touch with a lot if self identification via hobbies outside of work... hence if we aren't in a productive role, we degenerate into drug addicted psychos. 4 - Booth is a proponent to technology and evolution, and Bitcoin fits HIS thesis as the solution. 5 - What many people fail to realize with a bitcoin standard is that we all move towards a communism type state, but the power IS actually in the people's hands and not a totalitarian government.... this is hard to conceptualize because, well, it's never happened (other than star trek) permalink embed save report give award reply [–]Bastiat777redditor for 7 weeks 0 points1 point2 points 3 hours ago the problem is the governments are getting so ridiculous and batty that they are harming productivity growth. We have 300 years of coal in the USA buried and now practically outlawed from use. Natural gas all over the continent. Hydro generation grew rapidly 30 years no no new hydro. Nuclear power plants shut down in France, Germany, California, New England....while electricity prices have gone up. this is inflationary. Life expectancy in the US is declining the last 4 years. Health care so f'd up that prices are now rising while quality DECLINES. If the government can be so f'd up that it is a bigger negative factor than the obvious positive tech advances then it is possible even bitcoin doesn't get more valuable in real terms. I think it is unlikely, but say the government just starts killing 10 million people a year by outlawing meat production or something stupid like that. permalink embed save report give award reply

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Cryptocurrency: Gives Economic Power To Individuals and a Free Humanity, Rightly Starves Out Political Powers
by grarpamp 11 May '23

11 May '23

"The first requisite of a sound monetary system is that it put the least possible power over the quantity or quality of money in the hands of the politicians. -- Henry Hazlitt, Author: Economics In One Lesson" "The only legitimate amount of such power so held... is zero. -- Cypherpunks" https://fee.org/resources/economics-in-one-lesson/ https://mises.org/profile/henry-hazlitt "There are men regarded today as brilliant economists, who deprecate saving and recommend squandering on a national scale as the way of economic salvation; and when anyone points to what the consequences of these policies will be in the long run, they reply flippantly, as might the prodigal son of a warning father: 'In the long run we are all dead.' And such shallow wisecracks pass as devastating epigrams and the ripest wisdom. -- H. Hazlitt" "What is Seen and What is Not Seen" In his 1850 essay "Ce qu'on voit et ce qu'on ne voit pas" ("What is seen and what is not seen"), Bastiat introduced through the parable of the broken window the concept of opportunity cost in all but name. This term was not coined until over sixty years after his death by Friedrich von Wieser in 1914. "By virtue of exchange one man's prosperity is beneficial to all others. -- Frederic Bastiat" The Failure of the "New Economics" subtitled An Analysis of The Keynesian Fallacies, (1959) is a book by Henry Hazlitt offering a detailed critique of John Maynard Keynes' work The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money (1936). Friedrich Hayek praised the work, referring to it as "a brilliant performance...I know of no other modern book from which the intelligent layman can learn so much about the basic truths of economics in so short a time." Nobel Prize laureate Milton Friedman stated: "Hazlitt's explanation of how a price system works is a true classic: timeless, correct, painlessly instructive." German-American economist Ferdinand A. Hermens wrote: "presidents and cabinet members...could learn a great deal if they would read Hazlitt's book and ponder its implications." Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Edwin A. Roberts Jr. wrote: "Fifty years have passed since the book was first published...and it continues to stand as the clearest introduction to what to me is the most engagingly complicated of all academic disciplines."

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